So now with years of hindsight, was it a good twist?
Did Zack really add to the plot of FF7? Would it have been better if Cloud really was a 1st class SOLDIER instead? Is Zack just Cloud's Genesis?
>>319334662
Cloud being delusional for the first half of the game was great.
>>319334662
Good twist but flawed in execution because if you didn't go to an optional town with specific party members in the party you wouldn't even have heard his name before the reveal. Needed more foreshadowing so it doesn't come out of nowhere so much.
>>319334662
Lazy twist.
>>319334662
Why can't FF7 remake Cloud be this muscular?
>>319334662
Yeah, sure it was a good twist. Why not?
Cloud's story is peppered with hints that something wasn't quite right. His relation with Zack explains so much of what happens in the story - why Aerith likes him immediately, what happened in the Nibelheim reactor, how he started doing what he's doing - really it's a master stroke that they put it into the game. More often they give characters a backstory retroactively in a really shitty hamfisted way - like Angeal for example.
Going back to Nibelheim and getting the optional cutscene was cool. Probably should have made that mandatory to watch.
>>319334662
>Start the game - you're Cloud Strife, SOLDIER 1st Class
>2nd disc - lol no, Cloud actually sucks, Zack is the real SOLDIER 1st Class
It's a great twist, even the new players coming to FF7 from the remake will probably enjoy it.
>>319336336
>But Cloud is the hero that saves the world and killed the greatest soldier who ever lived (twice) whilst Zack died like a little bitch to 3 generic mooks.
Cloud and Zack are basically Solid and Liquid Snake.
>>319336336
It doesn't even matter at that point because Cloud already surpassed Zack.
>>319336523
>3 generic mooks
They'll probably have him go out Crisis Core style.
>>319336623
Sure hope hey give him a bigger focus in game.
In the original he was barely an afterthought. They didn't even let you care.
>>319336336
Everyone knows Aerith dies, but Zack is the real main twist of the game. It's cool that even so long after the game came out, most new players still don't expect it since the other twist takes up all the spoiler discussions.
The twist is sure to be executed much better in the remake too, since Zack is now a fully developed character. Just too bad all the new fans the first episode brings on board will get spoiled on it like suckers before the game actually gets to that point two years later.
It was Kojima's Raiden plot twist done right.
Cloud represents the player, someone who is acting tough and wants to be a big cool guy, but in reality he's a skinny nerd who wants to be more than he is.
It was a great plot twist and one of the things that truly made the game great.
>>319334662
Its a good twist, and it would have stayed good had Crisis Core not come along and mucked shit up. I enjoy the game, but we didn't need Gackt; Genesis was literally only in the game because Nomura had a boner for the secret scene from Dirge of Cerberus. I'm pretty sure that's on record as to why Genesis was added, the scene in Dirge was just supposed to be a cute cameo. Angeal is meh, better than Genesis, but still not really needed.
>>319337194
Secret scene? I don't remember w secret scene.
>>319334662
>twist
It was known that Zack was essentially "the original Cloud" in FF7. Maybe you should learn to read and pay attention.
>>319334662
I feel the weight of Zack's death scene in the original game was ruined with the flaming fuck you that was the finale in Crisis Core. Legends are always more interesting when they're exaggerations of the truth.
Finding out that Zack was just a regular dude with mortality that did a whole bunch of good only to die a pathetic death made him more tragic and endearing than that stupid anime custcene at the end of the game where he turns into an super saiyan badass that wrecks everything and only dies because the plot of FF7 needs to happen.
The only consolidation I have is that Crisis Core isn't actually canon but instead an interpretation of the events by Cloud as he's recounting the story to others that he barely remembers, because he was left in a vegetative state through most of it.
>>319337317
Literally just Jrocker Gackt dressed as what was later revealed to be Genesis looking spoopy for 5 seconds
>>319337996
>than that stupid anime custcene at the end of the game where he turns into an super saiyan badass that wrecks everything
I seriously don't remember this.
>>319338049
Can't wait for that faggot to show up in the Nibelheim flashbacks
>>319337996
Agreed. Zacks death at the end felt lousy and not very true to how strong he really was. He could've used a single summon and annihilated that whole squadron of enemies but instead he just waddles around and gets shot like a bitch.
>>319335246
That image is Zack as a legit first class SOLDIER in his prime.
Cloud in the remake is a sickly mako addict who just got out of a multi-year coma.
>>319338493
Its inevitable that we will see Genesis and possibly Angeal or at least hear about them in some form, probably in the basement in the Mansion by reading the books.
>>319337342
But no one knew the true impact he had until Crisis Core. He's an unsung hero that no one knows or cares about, swept under the rug.
>>319337996
Come on Zack starts out a second class soldier who idolizes sepiroth, angeal, and genesis.
He dreams of one day being a first class soldiers like them. He didn't know that they were experiments and technically not human.
Soon after he's considered first-class, Sepiroth discovers what he really is and being a "hero" is not what it seems. Shortly after he gets experimented on by Hojo and has Jenova cells in him.
First Class Soldier = Sepiroth Clone = Having power similar to sepiroth
>>319337050
That's the genius behind it: Aeris is the most spoiled event in video game history, and it serves as the red herring that draws attention away from the real plot twist of Zack's existence.
>>319339204
probably secret/optional bosses, if they aren't dlc somehow. maybe even secret party members. i could see them making yuffie and vincent standard party members and turning angeal into a secret summon and genesis a secret party member or something like that
Curious if you guys would want a crisis core episode and an advent children episode? Fixing some problems with the stories?
>>319335007
Aeris spends the first few minutes foreshadowing this for you.
Tifa helps out later
It was a decent twist and I kind of like that to fully appreciate it you have to go out of your way
>>319339185
But for christs sake he looks horrible. They need to make some compromise. Maybe make it so that shortly after Cloud starts eating and lifting and gains more muscle mass. he looks pathetic in this remake.
>>319339449
The problem is that they wrote themselves into a corner in terms of Zack's strength and the contradiction that he still ends up dying by getting shot in the face. In the end you have to make a compromise you either change Zack's death or you reveal that his strength was not really what it was made out to be to make his death more realistic. Instead they just made his death feel like a plot device.
>>319340114
>Aeris
.tfw this remake will be the final nail in this names coffin
>>319340387
I know it's Aerith. But she will always be Aeris to many
>>319338231
He takes down an army and jobs at the last three guys and a helicopter
Will Cissnei ever make an appearance again?
>>319340387
>tfw playing Japanese
>>319340862
Nah she's a slut that deserves to die.
>>319334662
Yes. Cloud went from "im a badass winner" to "oops im actually an autistic loser with a fugged up memory"
Why Crisis Core Isn't considered canon by the community ? I mean , it just tell us the truth about What happened before FFVII Like a true prequel ... It´s Like saying Advent Children isn't canon because you don't emofaggotry Cloud
>>319341260
Genesis storyline is retarded as shit
>>319341510
Pretty much this.
>Zack
A good twist. But you know who I hope we see more of?
Not even kidding. Crisis Core was a fucking Gackt filled fanfiction but it fleshed out Sephiroth a great deal and you really felt for the guy by the Kalm scene. He was a fucking bro.
In the original game you're literally constantly reminded of "The Great Sephiroth" to the point where you're scared shitless by the time you actually meet "him," but the side quest in the game where you arguably learn the most about him is completely missable.
The story of Hojo, Lucrecia, Vincent and Seph is incredibly fucked up and really good and I hope they take more time with it.
>>319341607
So , officialy it is cannon or not ?
>>319341646
>He was a fucking bro
Yeah, before he lost it he seemed like a genuinely good guy, if kinda can't quite connect with normal people.
>>319341751
Yes. Crisis Core is canon. Unfortunately.
The real issue with the whole thing for me is that Tifa knew from the beginning that Cloud's recollections in Kalm were bullshit but they didn't (to me) give her a strong enough reason not to make it known.
>>319341751
It is what you want it to be
What's wrong with Zack's death scene in Crisis Core? If I remember correctly, as it's been awhile, didn't he wake up out of the mako coma, pull cloud out, stumble his way back to the city before being found by the SOLDIER forces? Then he fights them off before succumbing at the last second? Isn't that justified by him just getting out of a damn coma? I remember really enjoying how the wheel slowly broke as he wore down
>>319341989
Pretty much this. He was just an autist who tried, but life shat on him at every turn.
The crisis core scene where Sephiroth tries to give blood and is told by Shinra personnel he can't; and he doesn't understand why and gets legit upset is really great.
>>319342194
You sound like that type of faggot that plays Dungeons and Dragons and when the DM gives you a plot hook you say "I dont see why my character has to go do the thing"
>>319342308
Yeah, DMW was a cool system, and because of what it represented, that sequence was all the more memorable.
>>319342098
aside from genesis I liked it
>>319339536
Which further distracts from the whole issue of Jenova/Sephiroth's body. It's fantastic.
>>319342308
Yes, thats it, but some faggots dont like the fact that in this high fantasy setting a magical enforced soldier beats a big ass bunch of grunts because in the original the magical enforced soldier dies by the hands of 3 gooks
>>319342410
Not to go /tg/, but that shit is annoying. I stopped playing in one of my more recent groups because one player made everything about him, so if he didn't like what the DM wanted to do, he would whine and say things like "it's against my characters belief's" or some such nonsense.
/rant
>>319342410
No, this is actually an important issue.
>>319337996
ya crisis cores interpretation was terrible. him getting shot in the back of a truck in last order was even better than that shit
>>319342557
Zack had a hard life .
>>319334662
Complete shit. They show Zack die and cloud kills seperioth but a hidden seen shows otherwise.
>>319342528
I loved Crisis Core, but I didn't enjoy the extra story for Genesis, and even what they did with Angeal. I really liked Angeal at first, but as events unfolded, I lost interest in him.
>>319343238
>I really liked Angeal at first, but as events unfolded, I lost interest in him
Angeal, sad to say, didn't really brought anything to the story. He was just-- there.
>>319343532
He being the source of the Busta Sword irks me
>>319341646
Pretty much the issue I had with FFVII was that I felt Sephirot the typical villain that want to destroy the world because fuck everything.
Then I play DoC and find that messed up shit about him. They need to include that in the Remake.
>>319342410
Although I don't play dnd, I would absolutely be that faggot and the game session as well as the dm's story telling skills would genuinely benefit from it if I eventually decide to shut up.
Also, you sound like the kind of faggot who defends Oblivion/Skyrim as a deep rpg because it lets you -imagine- playing a role instead of giving you any plot points or mechanics to express your fantasy.
I thought the twist was great
>>319344569
You have never been with that guy. Good RPers oftentimes will take plothooks against their characters, but justify it - "They care about the party more then their beliefs"; especially if the plothook is fucking neato. Me and the cleric are the two best RPers in our D&D group, and it really shows.
>I missed hearing his name because I skype in
>Get together the rest of the party when he walks off, and tell them that he's probably a deceiver
>he comes back and tries to talk to me, because I am the party leader
>I look at him suspiciously and run away because I will not be tricked by some two-bit conman
It's a pretty fun hook to play with, and we made it up ourselves.
>>319340862
Yeah, Cloud will kill her without knowing who she was.
>>319337126
>It was Kojima's Raiden plot twist done right.
They're not really that similar.
It has more in common with the awful Venom Snake twist (though done much better).
>>319341646
Yeah, Sephiroth was a bro in CC, I really hope they keep that in the remake.
>>319340131
FFVII takes place almost directly after the end of CC actually.
>>319340387
Her name has been properly translated to Aerith for years now, it's always been that way, sorry you still cling to your mistranslations.
>>319337050
I only played FF VII earlier this year before the Remake was even announced and had heard about Aerith's death for years. I'd only heard a tidbit about Crisis Core, about the extent I knew of the plot was that it involved Zack and Sephiroth but I read no further than there because I thought it was just some made up shit that didn't matter.
When I actually played FF VII I couldn't believe the major twist wasn't Aerith's death but the appearance of Zack in the flashbacks and how Cloud's past isn't what we thought it was. Can't believe I managed to even dodge that fucking spoiler when I was reading up a bit on Crisis Core.
>>319340131
He's supposed to look pathetic because he is. His strength is derived from experimentation, not any actual physical prowess on his part. Everyone bitching about this doesn't know what the fuck they're talking about. Go play Gears of War if you want to be a jacked meathead.
>>319347272
God. Damnit. Anon. Spoiler. That. Shit. You're not the only one who has waited to play Final Fantasy VII. I'm playing Final Fantasy VII RIGHT. FUCKING. NOW. You fucking asshole.
>>319349170
It's almost two decades old, fag.Vader is Lukes father.
>>319340997
bether girl than aerith. i am glad that bitch died. cissnei deserved zack, tifa deserved cloud, aerith deserved sephirot pole
I really hope Remake goes back to the original interpretation of Zack's death. Some cliche epic last stand like in Crisis Core was fucking shit. Zack was shot by some no named grunt and died like a bitch, and it's a better, more tragic end to the character.
>>319349335
Ned Stark dies.
>>319349170
You're reading a fucking thread where the OP is clearly talking about a plot twist. What in the unholy mother of fuck did you expect?! Jesus Christ you're a dumbfuck.
>>319349714
I know Crisis Core's plot twist though, because I don't give a fuck about that game.
>>319349335
I didn't get to have a game system until sixth Gen, anon.
>>319350482
I didn't have a DVD player until like 2007 but I still knewBruce Willis was dead the whole time.
Does CC completely spoil FF7's Zack twist? I haven't finished it yet, but my friend has, and he hasn't played FF7 unlike me. I know about the final showdown, but does it show or heavily imply Cloud taking over Zack's identity?
>>319334662
it was metal gear solid 2 before metal gear solid 2. Fuck you Kojima.
>>319350723
YOU WILL BE MY LIVING LEGACY
>>319341646
Everything about Crisis Core that was directly related to FF7 and wasn't some side shit was all pretty great. Only thing they should've done more on was Cloud and Zack's friendship which is only explored more in DMW flashbacks
wait is crisis core being remade in part of the remake?
>>319343532
All he was was a Zack for Zack because they were too lazy to come up with a true origin for the Buster Sword.
Crisis Core wasn't that bad. Fucking fanboys came out of their holes when the remake was announced and once again put FF7 on a podest as the best game ever when before it was treated like overrated trash at best.
It should have been Zack, Sephiroth, and Cloud all being bros more.
>>319337996
>Finding out that Zack was just a regular dude with mortality that did a whole bunch of good only to die a pathetic death made him more tragic and endearing than that stupid anime custcene at the end of the game where he turns into an super saiyan badass that wrecks everything and only dies because the plot of FF7 needs to happen.
The "Compilation of FF7" fucks up the plot like that in many ways
Sound FF7:REmake:REimagining:HD spend any time talking about or showing Dirge of Cerberus, even one episode?
