Now that the dust has unquestionably settled.
What went wrong?
Nothing, it was a great game.
nothing.
ds2 wasn't quite on the same level as ds1, but still a great game.
Everything.
I liked it a lot, lived up to my hype desu
>>319194480
Good arguments
it was fununless you summoned for the bosses you fucking casual
The gameplay was fine but it lacked the atmosphere and fantastic settings of DeS and DS1, which was what made them so great.
Also the graphics downgrade left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths.
Everything, Witcher 3 shits on it in everyway, even combat
Instead of actually sitting down and designing meaningful levels and encounters, they just decided to randomly spawn enemies and then multiply them by 20 and call it a day.
My only beef with the game was weapon durability.
>get summoned
>using spear
>trying to hit undead
>host jumps in the way
>just because my spear passed through host and hit undead I lose 10% durability in one hit.
there were a bunch of other times too when you'd do something simple and your weapon durability would randomly dive because fuck you.
>>319196774
I am pretty sure the graphics weren't actually downgraded from the previous games considering they used a more powerful engine, they just used their assets fucking horribly in certain areas making zones seem flat.
>"the nature of your being has changed"
What did they mean by this?
>>319197448
Japs don't give two fucks about details.
As long as it looks moderately pretty from far away it's fine.
I'll never understand that or why they don't care about clipping.
>>319197448
I meant the bait and switch between trailers/demos and the game itself.
>>319197697
>Trailers and Demos aren't the final game
Stop the fucking presses.
>>319197697
oh.Yeah, that was kinda bullshit, but ya know they weren't the final product anyway. My money is on it being limited by the PS3 and 360's capabilities, and they decided to downgrade before final release- despite fucking saying PC was gonna be main platform.
Seems like all that effort they showed in the first trailers went into making Bloodborne and now Dark Souls III pretty instead.
>>319193465
it was better than the first one in every single way except for atmosphere on some levels
The 2. 2 implies sequel, not successor. And the issue there was that it didn't feel connected to Lordran at all, it's more like a college grad's attempt to make a clone and didn't quite hit the mark. Be honest, if it were called something else; say Dread Souls for the sake of argument, would you have compared it so heavily to its predecessor or would you simply mark it off as the bad entry to a series?
>>319197823
You obviously weren't around when it happened, it was even more of huge downgrade than people had come to expect. The torches, which were advertised as an important new feature, became completely obsolete because they switched to a far shittier lighting engine.
>>319198189
>Bloodborne
>Dark Souls 3
I can't fucking wait till Dark Souls III, and Bloodborne is my game of the year, but thank fuck they told people that Dark Souls III was gonna be the last one.
They really ought to make something new soon, before Souls outstays its welcome.
nothing at all, its an amazing game, its better than the first dark souls in almost every aspect except atmosphere and some boss designs.
Also the DLC areas were fucking great, better than the vanilla game actually. That "lol DS2 bad, b-team bad boo" meme needs to fucking die already.
I think it's fantastic honestly. It improves upon most of the things DaS1 was lacking and has a lot more cool armor I can model. Oh and cloth physics.
>Soul Memory
>Graphics
>100 ENEMIES PER ROOM
If they would have just not fucked up, I could have accepted this because the game really wasn't that bad.
>>319198626
>and some boss designs.
90% of the bosses were shit though.
>>319198963
nice opinion
>>319193465
Every single thing.
It feels clunky as shit after playing bloodborne. All bosses walk like robots.
>>319198963
That's just your opinion. I prefer fighting humanoid bosses, and DS2 had plenty of them. DS1 bosses got boring very fast. Also fantasy>dark fantasy
>>319199321
It feels clunky as shit in general, because it is.
>>319199158
>>319199405
Sinner was alright.
Freja was interesting due to the torch dynamic.
Mytha was legitimately good if you don't nerf the fight with draining the poison.
And finally Fumey because he forces you to gg
All the rest were boring or awfully designed where you can exploit a simple lazy behavior/pattern.
I used to really like DaS 2 and then I played Bloodborne. I think DaS2's problem is that it was just more of the same from DaS1 without having its atmosphere. The environment didn't tell a story, bosses were same old same old, it had better weapons, spells and generally stat system but at the end of the day the souls gameplay isnt particularly interesting so it didn't save it.
Bloodborne came along and on top of having better combat, it just had an amazing atmosphere, lore, amazing zones and bosses. It was just on a completely different level, and Dark Souls 2 just has nothing going for it anymore.
>>319197342
As an Old Whip Belmont, this was especially grating.
>>319199520
Mytha is the most uninteresting design in the whole series.
Never seen such a lame, monochromatic design before. Even Bubsy's palette is more interesting than that.
Fume Knight is identical to Velstadt, Looking Glass Knight, Sir Alonne, Smelter Demon et al.
Nothing.
Good game, but it could never live up to the hype that the retarded fanbase of those games gave it.
Neither will Dark Souls 3. Yes, even with Miyazaki being back.
It just couldn't live up to the predecessor like most sequels
If it was a stand alone game it would've been praised a lot more here
>>319199520
>where you can exploit a simple lazy behavior/pattern
But you can do that with every single enemy since demon souls, that's how the games work. Also the looking glass knight had an amazing design, chariot executionner was cool, even the skeleton mages.
>"ok lemme just walk to the other side of this hallway and kill that enemy at the end of it"
>suddenly 3 enemies spawn 5 feet behind you and take away 50% of your hp
>>319199753
Like I said, don't drain the poison and then fight her.
It get hectic and fun fighting off the poison and health drain while juggling her rushing you.
>Fume identical to ornstein 1.5/summon knight, Sir Skater and palette swap Demon
no
>>319193465
I feel a lot of people went into this game wanting to hate it so ignore the things it does well and act like the things it doesn't are total game breakers that ruin everything.
I don't think it is as good as Dark Souls 1, but I'd say it is roughly on par with it, it just has issues of its own that people exaggerate. I think the issue is mostly that people want to like Dark Souls 1 and didn't want to like Dark Souls 2
I rate it pursuer/10
>>319200015
There's a difference between those few and the rest though.
LGK could have been a whole lot better, instead of just being an animatronic tank that occasionally summons.
Chariot could have been so much more, I wouldn't have even cared if they knicked the Roman fight 1:1.
Skelly mages were cool for the first five seconds, then a chore.
Honestly DS2 is Could have been so much more: The Game
>>319197448
There was a beta for DS2 where the graphics were orders of magnitude better. Look it up on YouTube.
I just bought it but haven't really played it yet, can i use KM+M or should i get a controller
>>319200327
>ignore the things it does wel
Which are what again?
>Fans who enjoy the series for the wrong reasons. >Delusional nostalgia retards who overblow the quality of the first one.
>/v/'s rabid need to label things as blunders and make memes about them
Something felt off compared to DeS, DS1, and BB. The dlc was fucking amazing, but the base game just didn't have the soul the other games had.
i like it but it seems like the game was made to be hard and annoying instead of how in DS1 everything is placed meticulously and gives the right amount of challenge as opposed to shit haphazaredly placed everywhere
garbage level design
soul memory
magic still broken
game balanced around adaptability
i don't know what to call it, but that little turn you do when you're swinging a greatsword or something large at something that's walking in to you that causes you to completely miss without any movement input on your part whatsoever
>>319200327
I have given DS2 so many chances. I've probably replayed it more than DS1, honestly. But no matter what, it is not better than Demons or Darksouls and nowhere near as good as Bloodborne.
There is absolutely nothing interesting about any boss, none of the environments are as good as any of the series and make no sense in how they connect, the lore is pathetic, and soul memory is a joke.
They thought what people liked about the soul series was just the gameplay and focused primarily on that, given how much they have catered to the point scene and I will say that the gameplay is good but everything else is terrible.
I really liked everything that concerned Aldia and Vendrick, but it was surprisingly little considering like half the game is about small lost kingdoms that are completely irrelevant and don't add much to the plot, it's really aggravating.
>>319201129
>i don't know what to call it, but that little turn you do when you're swinging a greatsword or something large at something that's walking in to you that causes you to completely miss without any movement input on your part whatsoever
QUALITY jap programming.
>>319196774
>fantastic settings
I never got this, atmosphere, sure, but it had some great looking areas like pic related and Heides
>>319201514
Dark Souls has always banked on grandiosity.
But rarely do FROM ever back it up with actual depth.
>>319201124
>placed meticulously and gives the right amount of challenge
Maybe in the first half of the game, after that you get BRAVO level design in the second half.
>>319202035
>butt dragons
>then fire statues
>then those Lovecraft fucks
>then BoC
It's like they went out of their way to make it as bad as possible.
>>319201774
Yeah, Sunken King was great, it was fun exploring a huge underground city and solving puzzles
I started DS2 for the first time an hour ago and the game feels more fluid/polished than DS1. It also looks beautiful compared to it which I hadn't expected due to downgrades.
Deprived class is bullshit however, so far I got a dagger and a shortsword, and I can't even use the sword cause I'm too weak and the enemies give fuck all souls.
>>319202248
I loved the chaos eaters.
>>319202035
this is a clearly example of cut content
>lets remove the half upper part of the dragon
>>319202549
I wish the whole place could have been one giant climb down to some spooky primordial place though.
>>319202656
Just wait until you realize everything is a one-off area and most of the bosses are awful.
>>319202248
>Hating on those..ah..ugh.. things. You know the ones. Those yellow buckets with teeth.
You have no taste. They were the only redeeming feature of Lost Izalith/
>>319202845
>>319202891
They had a cool design but just felt randomly placed though.
>>319202848
>>319202891
>They were the only redeeming feature of Lost Izalith
The map design was pretty great too.
>level design
>inconsistent world design (Iron keep above Earthen peak, distinct enemies being in all sorts of levels)
>Lack of boss design variety
With all of that said I still really like the game. The DLC was pretty great with great bosses. The Fume Knight, Sir Alonne, and the ivory King are some of my favorite boss fights in all the souls games. Sihn was what Kammeleet should have been; actually challenging. The theme for Alva the King's pet was great.I even like the gank squad in the Sunken King area. I know its not really a well designed fight but it got me thinking on my feet and that was exciting
>>319202656
I bet you're playing the Scholar of the First Sin edition where it plays at 60fps and all of the textures are crisper. So yeah it looks better. Still shit design though. Kill the first boss then come back
>>319193465
What went wrong is that the game is just a collection of cool ideas that couldn't be fit into DaS, thrown together with little to no context.
That's all there is to it.
>>319203032
>The map design was pretty great too.
Pic related.
>>319193465
I started with Dark Souls 2 (I had to, Dark Souls 1 wont run on my computer for some reason) and I'm always hearing how the sequel is far inferior to the original.
So my question is...
What exactly am I missing out on?
>>319193465
>What went wrong?
Wasn't directed by Miyazaki. That's literally it.
Or, if we want to laundry list its many flaws:
- Way, WAY too many bosses that are just a big guy in armor
- Way too many tracking overheads
- All visuals designed around a lighting system that they had to remove from the game because it wouldn't run, making the whole game look like an upscaled PS2 game
- Gems make you not dependent on Estus anymore
- Several really poorly designed maps
- Level-up lady is not cute and talks too much
Judged in a vacuum it's a 7/10 game, but when it's the sequel to a 10/10 game, of course everyone is disappointed.
>>319193465
recovery cancels
>>319202656
It starts off with you thinking it'll get more grandiose, but every area is very disconnected from the others, and they're all very awkward and bland compared to it's predecessor. Thematically everything is very off, and it feels like you're playing at a patched together world rather than some huge disheveled kingdom.
The underlying lore is also very very lacking, many of the bosses are pathetic in design/combat, and there's just a bad flow overall. You can tell it was a rush job.
>>319202879
>one-off area and most of the bosses are awful
Demon's Souls?
I don't really get all the hate for the linear level design, it feels more like a grand adventure and allows for more varied areas, even if it has it's drawbacks.
While it's a completely different feel from DaS1's explore Gwyn's front porch, it fits the High Fantasy theme better in my opinion
>>319202879
You mean DS1's dlc?
>>319203347
Cohesion mostly. Dark Souls opens in a big cinematic that establishes all the important people you'll be meeting, and the whole game takes place in one big castle whose level collision all fit together sensibly. It also has generally better enemy design that all fit in that cohesion.
>>319203032
>map design was pretty great
BRAVO
R
A
V
O
>>319203490
Considering they re-implemented a lot of DeS mechanics, yeah.
And nah, DS1 interconnection was GOAT.
Removing that and adding warping just felt gross and killed the adventure.
>>319203521
DS1 had slightly more less-awful areas and bosses.
>>319203450
>Thematically everything is very off
Heineken is canon in Dark Souls 2.
>>319203763
I meant that more towards your sunken king comment.
>>319203032
What I don't like about Izalith is that it's the area with the obvious signs of being rushed. There is that one place near the Bed of Chaos fog door where if you look out the ledge there is literally a missing ground texture.
Better fashion souls imo, shite everything else
>>319203839
Oh yeah, like that.
Except not as literally primordial.
>>319193465
it was boring
never drew me in like ds1
im not saying it didnt have lore, it has plenty and its quite deep, but on the surface, the environments, the bosses, the enemies, whatever, its all so dull that I just didnt care playing through it
also the combat felt weirdly floaty compared to 1
>>319201514
I just wish Heides had more to explore. Felt too small for me.
>>319203739
The idea of walking on lava is stupid, but exploring that area is very rewarding.
Tons of treasure in there, + two hidden bonfires to find.
>>319203918
Atleast it's not as bad as Ash Lakeand the people who defend Ash Lake
>>319203490
But Demon's Souls has a bunch of self-contained stories that all fit into the larger picture of the country in ruins. They're like the DaS 2 DLC with the Archdemons replacing the Daughters of Manus.
In DaS 2 proper you just go through a bunch of areas that don't really get elaborated on and feel like filler. And there's no Nexus, the idea is your just exploring the entire country on foot and locations are just stuck together with little reasoning.
Damn, these DLC are kicking my ass. It took me over four hours to beat Ellana. She kept summoning Velstadt right as she gets to a quarter health. Should I do Ivory King or old iron King next? playing as an all purpose caster, btw
>>319204163
What's wrong with Ash Lake?
>>319203918
That sucks, but at least it doesn't break the area.
The real problem is the enemy placement and selection for me.
Having to fight three shitty bosses and all those fat statues is not exciting at all.
>>319204218
But all the areas of Dark Souls 2 also fits into the bigger picture as well
>>319204163
>not liking ash lake
its just a scenery level where you get to fight a hydra
its pretty much totally skippable and a reward for whoever tries to roll through two invisible walls in a row
>>319202891
They had some cool design and the way they fucked you over if you tried to plunge attack the was great but their moveset was fucking weird
>spray a bit of acid my way
>figure it'll be one of those attacks that'll poison you/break your equipment or drain your health fast
>instantly kills me
>>319197342
If I remember correctly, it was worse on PC because higher FPS meant more frames your weapon would be in the body, causing more durability loss. Hitting dead bodies caused this, too. Does that still happen in SotFS?
>>319204374
To me there's not a lot of content. There's a good design and some cool treasure but I don't ever go there
>>319200750
Yes.
>>319204339
god I still haven't beat her, every time i get her down to almost no health velstadt always crushes me.
My biggest gripes were the game were:
>Terrible enemy design
>Lackluster area design and atmosphere
>Pants on head retarded lore
>Awful hitboxes and enemies spinning in place to attack
I can't even remember 90% of the bosses in the game. I don't think it was terrible, it's still obviously a good game but I never found myself replaying it or wanting to replay it. I never played the DLC areas though.
Level and boss design was kinda bad.
>>319204374
Everything and the most obvious evidence of DS being rushed.
>>319204478
Never said it wasn't cool, just meant people who say it's an actually good level and try to rationalize the hydra and the crystal crabs.
>>319204545
yeah, they had the opportunity to fix it and completely ignored it.
The Old Whip durability bug's still there too.
>>319204638
Same. I don't play it cause assholes in PvP
>>319204736
>Everything and the most obvious evidence of DS being rushed.
Please elaborate.
>>319204545
I heard they finally, after several failed attempts, managed to fix that. But I can't confirm so watch out.
I also don't know if they ever un-nerfed divine magic to a point where divine builds are not unplayable.
>>319199405
>fantasy > dark fantasy
Worst taste. You must eat a bowl of shit with aged milk every morning.
>>319204553
It's just a cool secret area that expands on the world a bit. It was nuts, going on an adventure behind a secret wall below the surface to gain the power to turn into a dragon. It didn't have to be there but it fleshes out the world.
>>319204736
>try to rationalize the hydra and the crystal crabs.
There's nothing to rationalize.
There's nothing to rationalize.
The hydra is here because the Ash Lake is the only place left where dragons aren't extinct.
The oysters are here because they're part of the local fauna.
If anything, it doesn't make sense for them to be in the crystal cave.
>>319205072
Same could be said of Dark Souls 2 as well
>>319205072
seath's a dragon, he probably wanted them there.
>>319204460
Not really, they're all incongruent and inconclusive.
Why is the kingdom of Alken inside the kingdom of the Old Iron King?
Who is "Fiorenza"?
Who is "Gower"?
>>319204460
IIRc the only use of impossible space in DkS1 was the abyss and TotG intercepting.
>>319205062
Nah, you're just an edgelord.
>>319204823
Why should I even have to?
Why did Siggy end up there after LI?
Why are the crabs down there too?
Why is Stone Dragon down there?
There's no sense of design or progression because FROM didn't have time.
It's just a textured whitebox with random enemies placed.
>>319205072
Why is the Hydra in the Basin too?
>>319205296
I saw quite a few people get called edgelords today. Or not to be edgy etc. Is this meme having a comeback?
I'm just asking cause I wanna be on top of my meme game is all.
>>319205339
>Why did Siggy end up there after LI?
He's an adventurer. Remember your previous encounter with him was in Blighttown.
>Why are the crabs down there too?
Presumably that's where they come from. You don't think they were native to crystal cave, do you?
>Why is Stone Dragon down there?
Either the stone dragons live below the archtrees or that's where Gwyn & Co. drove them to.
>>319205339
>Why did Siggy end up there after LI?
Why was he in Sen's Fortress, Anor Londo, Lost Izalith, Blighttown et al?
>Why are the crabs down there too?
Are you seriously asking why are crabs in a lake?
>Why is Stone Dragon down there?
Because it's the only place that wasn't altered by Gwyn.
>>319205339
>Why is Stone Dragon down there?
Pretty sure it's the myth of Nidogg, the dragon at the bottom of Yggdrassil that awaits the end of the world.
The stone trees are where the dragon's live, so it makes sense that's where they retreat back to after being defeated by the Soul Lords.
Siggy ends up there because he's a professional adventurer and he probably heard the same rumor you did of a tribe that turns into dragons and was like THAT'S COOL GOTTA CHECK IT OUT.
I don't know what the crabs or the hydra really are, but Darkroot forest is where all of Seath's experiments ended up, and the crabs are also in Seath's lab so maybe they're all connected.
>>319193465
>the good! TRIGGER WARNING: PERSONAL OPINION !
I liked the bosses
combat felt way more fluid compared to dks1/des
no instant backstabs
>the bad
difficulty amounts to "lots of enemies in a small room"
now I'll be honest, I haven't played the Sotfs edition
>>319200856
>enjoying something for the wrong reasons
Okay dude, step off the pedestal.
>nostalgia argument
I actually went into Ds2 fully intent on disproving the nay sayers to myself, I liked it though I found it more mentally draining to play for reasons I couldn't put my finger on at the time. After that I decided to roll up a new Dark Souls character and I couldn't believe how much better Dark Souls game felt and looked. It only took me a short time to really grasp why after that and I was never able to really go back to DS2 after that. Ds2 is a fine game, but it's a shallow experience compared to the first.
>>319198189
thats console parity for you.
they had to make the PC version match the console version
>>319205698
No. it's Blight->LI->Ash Lake
Well apparently it's the beginning of all Lordran's life so it should have a myriad of species.
Stone Dragon is atleast semi-believable.
>>319205862
>>319205870
The progression doesn't make sense with his storyline.
see above.
>>319206130
>No. it's Blight->LI->Ash Lake
Ag, fair enough. Perhaps he just wanted another crack at Blighttown.
>>319205339
>Why should I even have to?
I'm curious is all
>Why did Siggy end up there after LI?
Probably on his way back from Izalith he came back to Blighttown stumbled across it and thought it would be a great place to adventure.
>Why are the crabs down there too?
Why would oysters be on a beach near a sea? I have no idea.
>Why is Stone Dragon down there?
The intro cinematic shows an Everlasting Dragon at the base of an Arch Three. I assume they just like to chill there ever since back when.
>There's no sense of design or progression because FROM didn't have time.
There is some design put to it. Not really a real area just a treat area they put together with probably what they had left.
>It's just a textured whitebox with random enemies placed.
True but the Hydra is there protecting the Everlasting Dragon. The one in the Basin is preventing the Golden Golem from returning to Seath. It's surrounded by Crystal Golems it's hostile to.
>>319205237
many kingdoms rose and fell on that piece of land, often overlapping each other
A merchant of sorts
An assasin
>>319205276
We've been over this
>>319206449
Have we?
>>319206130
It makes sense because once you reach Lost Izalith the only thing you can do is backtrack.
>>319206492
Yes, there is a mountain in the background in the bonfire picture.
For people who disliked Dark Souls 2:_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________git gud
>>319206557
Yet you go straight up. From the top of a windmill. To a sunken castle.
>>319206281
I could see why that's his final place with METAPHORS. But FROM aren't one for concrete explanation.
>>319206397
Most of the inconsistencies is really just FROM refusing to concrete things like I said, so all we have is head-canon.
>>319198443
This is stupid.
I guarantee you Dark Souls 3 will have nearly nothing to do with Lordran as well.
>>319206587
I completed the game 100% and still hate it.
>>319193465
I liked everything about it EXCEPT the level design. It was lazy compared to 1
Report frogposters.
>>319206587
I beat Vendrick withno souls
>>319196773
Summoning is fun. I give no fucks for challenge. I want to maximize enjoyment.
>>319206760
So you liked the final boss room being reused for two very mediocre battles.
You liked the final fight being underwhelming as fuck.
You liked the real final boss's shitty gimmick?
Yeah nah.
Did anyone else experience severe delays in DaS1 R2 attacks?
Seems like half the time I pressed it, I'd have time to walk around a bit, grab a cup of tea, read the entirety of Tolkien's works and only then the attack would execute. Generally at the most inconvenient times, when I'm in the middle of strafing out of an enemy's attack.
>>319193465
ADP, soul memory matchmaking after the first portion of the game. Different art style, which although I like does somewhat lack compared to the other iterations. Level design went back to normal video game level if you care.
Everything else was improved, but the above items bothered some people enough to shit on it endlessly.
>>319205296
Nah, you just have shit taste. Vanilla fantasy sucks, I only ever see Zelda games do it right and even then MM outshines the rest.
>>319206680
No, you go into a mountain from the top of the windmill, into an elevator, which takes you into a lake of lava, on top of the mountain.
>>319207007
Yep. This is much. But with Estus as well.
>fight Havel
>dodge his attack
>press estus
>no estus
>shit, too late, dodge now
>press dodge
>character pulls out estus and gets flattened
It's like occasionally, your input doesn't go through until you press a different input, then it does the first input instead of the second one.
>>319207059
With minimal lateral movement. Are you saying the windmills are built on a mountainside, because it sure doesn't look like it.
>>319204072
Where does Heide's fit in Drangleic's lore anyhow. Was it just the site of an ancient kingdom that happened to be located on Drangleic's land? Same goes for Iron Keep?
Why can't people just accept the fact that Dark Souls 2 is a really good game, but just not as good as Dark Souls 1 or Demon's Souls?
Why is everything either GOTY or complete shit? Most of the mechanics were vastly improved on in Dark Souls 2, making actual gameplay more fun in a good number of different areas.
>>319205018
>>319204761
>>319204545
I know japs are shit tier game programmers that still link time in game to frames for some reason, but why wouldn't they just double the durability values for all weapons and be done with it?
>>319207373
BB > SotFS > DaS > DeS > Shit > DaS2
I just think SotFS is a great complete package that fixes a lot of gameplay and lore issues while boasting the best bosses in the classic Souls series. DaS has never been on top for me since PvP is a broken mess of backstab fishing and the latter half of the game was a noticeable downgrade in quality.
DaS3 will most likely blow each of the other Souls games out of the water though.
>>319207340
Drangleic's knight's, silly anon.
p. simple
>>319207340
IIRC, Iron Keep was the castle of an old Iron King who found a shit ton of iron and made a castle out of iron, but then the castle sank into the lava, and the Old king fell into the lava or some shit and found Gwyn's soul down there and became a lava monster. Then Knight All-Alone sat up at the top of a tower waiting for his king to return to get rid of this groupy bitch who came after he died and was like "I'm totally the queen guys" and fucked the whole place up, but he never came back so Alone died and left his armor all nice because honor.
Also there's someone in basement who is angry at Vesdalt for some reason.
>>319207340
The Iron Keep was the castle of another nearby kingdom from what I understand
>>319207373
Because it doesn't do anything a sequel should except be prettier.
>>319204112
what the fuck are you talking about lost izalith treasure was god awful
>>319207825
How so? It's set in the same universe (just timeshifted forwards a bunch) and has built on the mechanics of the previous game. I can't see how it isn't a sequel unless people being disappointed in a game somehow discounts it as being a sequel.
>>319207340
Iron Keep was explained in the DLC as some other King's stronghold who predated Drangleic.
Heide's I have no clue about.
>>319207721
>Also there's someone in basement who is angry at Vesdalt for some reason.
Apparently Raime and Vestdalt disagreed on something and had an HONORABU DUEL with Raime getting btfo, so he got exiled and became a slave to one of Manus' daughters.
I've put over 300 hours into ds2 and I can't even bring myself to pick up ds1 for the first time because I'm worried the amount of reverse hype I have from watching /v/ shitting on ds2 is so much that I will be disappointed
>>319207825
It did plenty a sequel should.
It refined a lot of the mechanics and control
It gave a new story, with new lore, so as not to mess with the story and lore of the first title (which is good, since these games don't even slightly lend themselves to direct sequels).
and so on and so forth.
The only 2 areas where it was lacking are the enemy placement, which was largely fixed in SotFS, and world layout, which, while nonsensical and often suspension of disbelief breaking, at least had a good verity of areas with different appeals.
Majula is vastly superior to Firelink in my opinion in terms of a hub town. It's so fucking cozy.
Slow, clunky gameplay, awful hitboxes, poor optimization, no balance, no story, roll2win, generally all "challenge" is in the form of "get blindsided by this once then steamroll it effortlesly," badly designed armor sets instead of actual monster or character design, gimmicky PVP that only detracts from the already-questionable main game, disgusting meme marketing, recycled bosses out the wazoo, a solid 5/10.
Same as all the Souls games and Bloodborne.
>>319206587
Amen, brother.You're a dumb frog poster tho.
>>319208112
Know in advance that the second you see lava in Dark Souls 1, you're in for the worst time of your life
>>319207825
>Continues the lore of the first game
>Provides a different interpretation of what the Age of Fire and Humanity really means
>Ends by giving the player an option that the Chosen Undead didn't have, showing it's not so black and white
Thematically, DaS2 did fine.
>>319196894
you don't really believe this do you?
>>319193465
building toooooooooo much hype with the demo. that went wrong
>>319193465
>Bad story
>Lore rape
>Bad level design (They fix that in the dlc)
>Nonsensical world.
>Soul lvl
>hard to find red-invasion thingies/no full red-invasion thingies
>lack of exclusive weapon move-set
>Small variety in bosses fight-stile.
still a great game. the dlc is goat
>>319208112
Yeah, I initially had no interest in DS2, especially given how much everyone on here just shit on it, then I played it and enjoyed it roughly as much as DS1. and now the continuous "ITS THE WORST GAME EVER" hyperbole just makes me to pretend that Dark Souls 2 was a little better each time I read some.
>>319208112
DaS is great until you finish Anal Rodeo, then it becomes a mess of poor level design and rehashed bosses (3 asylum demons, anyone?).
>>319208385
>They fix that in the dlc)
>Oh shit another cold level just like The Painted World, I can't wait
>o-oh
What a fucking let down.
they fucked up the greatsword
unforgivable
People who still hate DaS2 are just people who didn't play SotFS. SotFS corrects a shit ton of the lore, fixes a shit ton of the wonky mechanics and poor enemy placement, and includes the DLC areas, which are hands down the best in the whole series (Artorious of the Abyss was a good DLC but Royal Forest was pure fucking shit and will always bog that DLC down. Also the area design of that DLC was pretty "just decent")
>>319197342
>>319204545
>>319204761
>>319205018
>>319207403
This is now fixed in SotFS, can confirm firsthand. Huge improvement.
>>319208626
I didn't even play OG 2, got SOTFS and still felt underwhelmed by it.
Stop trying to defend a shit game, if you liked it, cool, but it's just not good.
>>319208385
>Lore rape
How exactly? The lore of DaS is pretty sparse (when you're not using your imagination to fill in that is), so there's not much to even "rape".
The only lore issues DaS2 had was that it didn't build it's own decent lore. It hardly had anything at all to do with DaS lore, and the only people who would say DaS2 it "raped" DaS's lore are literal autists.
>>319208626
Doesn't DaS2 DLC have even more retarded enemy placement
>>319208872
>but it's just not good.
If you didn't like it, cool, but it's just not a bad game.
>>319194242
>ds2 wasn't quite on the same level as ds1, but still an ok game.
ftfy
>soul memory
Why.
Just fucking why.
It just utterly fucking bewilders me how they actually thought that was a good idea.
>>319193465
Well mainly the hit boxes. That was fucking stupid. Other than that the game itself.
>>319208929
>those two giant turtle knights clipping through eachother at Drang bridge
wew
Will people ever stop talking about how o.k dark souls 2 was?
It was o.k, these threads have been going on for over a year
>>319209078
What is actually wrong with soul memory? It fixed twinking and arbitrary level capping. I never have issues finding people to PVP / Co-Op with.
>>319209105
I don't remember those. Remind me?
>>319208929
Sort of, but it only feels really dumb in Iron King.
Man, that entire DLC was an absolutely slog to get through since it threw so many fucking enemies at you that hit for like half of your health at 50 vigor.
>>319209078
The concept is good since it means you can constantly get matched with people as you level up. The problem with SL was that it was a community defined meta and you were so OOL if you didn't want to abide by it.
The only issue with SM is that it scales off of deaths and item upgrades.
>>319208921
I tend to ignore people who cite "lore" as one of the reasons they disliked DS2 because they probably got everything they know about the lore from either game from watching Youtube videos about them.
Haven't played it in awhile, but let's give a quick list of what I can remember;
>non-respawning enemies
>soul memory
>weapon durability
>losing maximum health when you die
>able to be invaded while hollowed
>able to stat into invincibility frames
I'm sure there's more that I'm forgetting, but for everything I found that I enjoyed about the game, there were atleast two things that took away from that enjoyment.
The world also didn't have the same atmosphere as DaS. Which isn't a bad thing per se. However when the world doesn't follow any logical flow for areas, then it makes it even harder to enjoy what little they had. A giant sunken fortress in a lake of lava is just magically floating above a windmill, but you somehow can't see it.
>>319209739
>>losing maximum health when you die
Can't imagine where they got that idea from.
>>319209237
It integrates your build and your progress in the game in a shitty way. If you want to be a completionist and buy all the armor and have access to all the weapons, you have to jack up your soul memory vs. someone who makes a hyper focused PVP build. In Dark Souls 1 you could play the game without worrying about how many souls you're wasting on every helmet or arrow and still have a competitive PVP build as long as you stick to the meta SLs.
HOW THE FUCK DID DARK SOULS 2 RAPE THE LORE OF DARK SOULS 1 IN ANY WAY? THIS HAS NEVER BEEN PROPERLY EXPLAINED TO ME. REEEEEEEEEE
>>319209739
People sure love to complain about the Old Iron Keep, it seems to be the only thing people ever cite as an issue with the cohesion of the game.
>>319209237
The tiers were fucked and the 'high level' PvP was boring. Before they implemented that ring you were locked into fighting nothing but havelyns or becoming one yourself (and still fighting nothing but havelyns). A low enough level cap has build diversity because nobody at that level can excel at everything. Sure pre-1.0.5 DkS1 got it wrong with elemental vitgouge builds but they fixed it well enough with the damage nerfs. The Agape ring feels like a quick fix AND it takes up a ring slot, meaning less build variety.
>Hey you know this door here?
>It would be fucking hilarious if we put 12 claymore soldiers right behind it
I still firmly believe the Dark Souls 1 fags who hate everything about DS2 are one of the worst gaming communities ever.
They are both great games.
>>319210258
It's the most egregious example.
Remember to report frogposters.
>>319209246
Bridge up going to the Drang castle entrance, there's two mammoth knights guarding it.
Tried to get a good screenshot but oh well.
>>319193465
My honest problem with it is the goddamn tracking, the adp stat and poise doing fuck all.
Couldn't care less about soul memory, dont play pvp
>>319210427
Sure, I agree, but it just seems like parroting what other people are saying if it's already been said a bunch of other times in the thread.
faggots were expecting the second coming of christ and got a pretty good game
>>319210098
Except that in DS2 there's a fuck ton more viable PVP builds than just "Ninja flipping mage". I PVP with a +10 Sun Sword and Drake Blood armor and I win a good number of fights against anyone because the PVP isn't straight up broken like it was in DS1.
>>319210307
You're given more ways to deal with people like that though. Poise doesn't do nearly as much, so Havels isn't nearly as good, and 3 ring slots is still more than 2 ring slots. 1 if you factor in that you pretty much needed a flip ring to be competitive in DS1, because literally EVERYONE else used it, and could never be hit by anything.
>>319197603
>Play as a guy.
>Later on switch to a girl.
>Reaching endgame so switch back to a guy.
>Get the witch robe and want to wear it cuz it has neat stats.
>Realize it looks terrible on a male.
>Go back to being a girl
>>319210347
>that Gargoyle fight was pretty cool but you know what would be better?
>instead of two, let's add SIX
>AND GIVE THEM LIGHTNING POWERS TOO
>>319209237
Originally there was no items in DaS2 that would allow you to keep your level the same. Effectively this stopped people from twinking, yet I don't feel this was a problem or that it needed addressing. More importantly though, the real problem with Soul Memory is that you can inversely increase your SM without actually leveling up or having those souls to spend.
>>319209408
There's nothing wrong with a community defined meta. I'd rather that than have a developer defined meta like LoL. Regardless, when DaS was in it's peak you could still find people to summon or get invaded by even if you strayed from the meta.
>>319210258
It's just something that I really remember hating. I haven't played DaS2 since January.
>>319210652
>poise doing fuck all
This is a good thing. Poise is dumb and gives you two options to PVP: Get as much poise as your possibly can, or be a dickass mage and never get within 20 feet of the other player.
>>319210919
Okay, but Soul Level made it so you could be invaded by a faggot with top tier gear in the Undead Parish. DS2 makes PVP easier for people who are good at the game and don't die. DS1 makes the PVP easier for faggots who need to win so bad they limit their level and max their gear.
>>319210739
Flip ring was nerfed into oblivion.
In my opinion they made the poise mechanic worse; the recovery time was too slow and most attacks just ploughed through any amount of poise that wasn't full Havel's. It became basically a guessing game whether you could take an attack or not.
How do you deal with SL838 Havelyns at SL120 though? Beyond just outplaying them straight up which wasn't nearly as easy as outplaying SL712 players in DkS1.
>>319210739
>Except that in DS2 there's a fuck ton more viable PVP builds than just "Ninja flipping mage". I PVP with a +10 Sun Sword and Drake Blood armor and I win a good number of fights against anyone because the PVP isn't straight up broken like it was in DS1.
He was saying that you could spend all your souls on random items, and that would put you in the same pvp bracket a a person will all maxed stats. You response doesn't even make sense
>>319210932
I see what you mean from a pvp perspective. I only play pve, and it was nice to sometimes get off a sticky situation instead of being stunlocked in place, especially in SoTFS where there's 5 enemies around you at all times
>>319211171
Honestly if you're summoning in the Parish you have bigger issues than twinks.
>>319211195
Those random items can actually do shit though in DS2 though. That's what I'm saying. The poise nerf means that even with a shit weapon you can deal damage to an OP stacked dude. You can stagger him and then dodge. High poise in a DS1 PVP match basically meant you won unless you got lagstabbed or the enemy actually got a parry in.
DS2 fixed PVP by making it so there was no "giantdad" minmax meta. It made skill more viable than stats. Not that stats aren't important, they are, but actual attack and dodge timing plays a MUCH larger role in DS2 than it did in DS1.
>Want a rare drop
>Try to farm it
>Enemy never respawns again
IT'S NOT FUCKING FAIR
>>319211171
It also allowed you to summon a faggot with top tier gear in the Undead Parish. There was balance between it. Plus you could just not be human in the Parish, it's not like you could be invaded all the time.
I can't say I do a lot of PvP, so I can't really say much. What I can say is that if somebody wants to go through and clear the game and fully upgrade their equipment while keeping their level minimal, why shouldn't they be allowed to do PvP or Co-Op?
>>319211321
Who said anything about summoning? And, not that co-op has anything to do with PVP, there's still nothing wrong with co-op for people who want it.
>>319211623
To add to this. It's rare to see two people built the same in DS2. DS1 was plagued by cookiecutter meta builds, and you couldn't really deviate, because if you did then you weren't OP as everyone else anymore.
>soul memory is bad
literally only /v/ would label preventing noob hunting as a con
>>319211717
gotta get your bonfire aesthetics on brah
Soul Memory is shit.
World layout makes no sense.
Everything else was 10/10
>>319211859
There were dozens of viable builds at the top end of DkS1 PvP. DkS2 had one build at the top end. One.
personally, I really enjoyed the game for what it was, and I had a great time with it
but what really went wrong was From pulling the biggest bullshit dick moves imaginable with the amazing gameplay trailer bullshot graphics, and them outright lying about the game being a "full experience" that wouldn't get DLC before release and then shitting out a surprise season pass. and then a year later literally rereleasing the game with patches because money
>>319211793
>why shouldn't they be allowed to do PvP or Co-Op?
Wow, you're SO good at the game that you've earned the right, no, the privilege to invade new players just starting out the game with your top tier gear.
No one will ever question how good you are anymore.
Why would you even enjoy this? PVP is only fun when it's evenly matched. Twinking is basically the same as only playing football with the pewee team, because you know you can tackle them easily.
>>319211882
If your so buttpained about the occasional twink then summon some bros or FUCKING GO HOLLOW YOU IDIOT.
It's faggots like you that lead to SL120s being stuck in the same matchmaking bracket as SL700+ Havelyns
>>319212305
Levels hardly mean dick past 200.
Mechanically; Soul Memory and non-respawning mobs
Aesthetically; It had less 'good' things about it than DS1.
DS1's major flaw was the 2nd half of the game, where about 1.5 of the zones had any sort of uniqueness or interesting fights
While DS2 didn't really have this strange drop off in subjective quality, it still had a pretty shallow variation of enemies throughout most of the zones which rubbed people the wrong way.
Story-wise it didn't really capture the magic of DS1, there were few if any interesting NPCs, and the setting was pretty weak because it was overshadowed, and clung to the grandeur of DS1. The best course of action would have been to drop the whole 'successor to gwyn' idea and just fleshed out the overworld of Catarina, Astoria, or wherever they chose. Maybe blur the mythos even more with different interpretations of the lord souls and dark souls
I heard that the only way to get the Soul of the Pursuer is to beat him the very first time he fights you. That's pretty messed up, how would anyone know how to do that?
Are there any other missable items like that?
>>319212126
Don't ask me why people enjoy it. I haven't done it personally, despite having a twink that could. My character was made way back in the day to get summoned and fight invaders in the Parish and surrounding early areas.
Regardless, you get invaded, die, and learn. Sometimes you get invaded by people who are better than you. Sometimes you get invaded by people who have better equipment than you. Sometimes it's both. Sometimes it's neither.
>>319212126
You keep saying this as if every single invasion that occurs in Burg/Parish is an unkillable twink, when it's quite simply not true.
Fuck, things are so stacked against the invader in DaS2 that PvP is completely pointless now.
>>319210703
Well I always thought it was weird that getting to No Man's Wharf from Heide's you can see the water level clearly, and eventually you start slogging through water like if your in an underwater tunnel that has been slightly flooded, but then you go further down and now there's a huge open cave.
With a pier and (ghost)ships to go out to sea no less.
>>319212732
>tfw no DMC ship boss
I was so ready, only to be let down by spooky pirate twins
>>319211717
Join company of champions. Everything respawns because they don't despawn when you are in that covenant. Farm. Get it. Then leave covenant.
>>319212601
>Sometimes you get invaded by people who are better than you. Sometimes you get invaded by people who have better equipment than you. Sometimes it's both. Sometimes it's neither.
So... With Soul memory sometimes you get invaded by people who made decent investments and are higher level than you. Sometimes you get invaded by a player who didn't die and lose all their souls as much and has better stats than you, sometimes you get invaded by someone who is much worse than you and doesn't know how to level, and you don't have to put a retarded arbitrary cap on your level? Okay. Sounds pretty much the same, but slightly better.
>>319212693
And you guys seem to think that everyone you encounter in DS2 is WAY more efficiently leveled than you, or that you NEED to put every point into your levels to be competitive.
I heard that the only way to get the Soul of the Pursuer is to beat him the very first time he fights you. That's pretty messed up, how would anyone know how to do that?
Are there any other missable items like that?
>>319213241
wrong
I heard that the only way to get the Soul of the Pursuer is to beat him the very first time he fights you. That's pretty messed up, how would anyone know how to do that?
Are there any other missable items like that?
>>319213078
Also, lets not forget that DS1 didn't have a Soul Vessel, so if you didn't level efficiently, then by the time you hit the meta cap, you were pretty much fucked. At least in DS2 if you realized you leveled like a retard you can change it up. OR, you can try something different just for fun. This makes build variety MUCH larger in DS2, since you can literally change your build if you want, and not just your gear.
Lacked the atmosphere of its successors. The only really memorable places were the Shrine of Amana and the Throne of Want.
Much worse level design, in DaS you can see all the places you've been and where you're going from anywhere open. You can't do that in DaS2, the world doesn't fucking make sense.
The absolute worst part about the game is how they just put large groups of enemies everywhere though. It's just a cheap way of inflating the difficulty. You can't even lure them one at a time with arrows, if one aggros they all aggro. This is especially evident in the dragon shrine.
Which reminds me, most of the bosses do way too much damage. In DaS1 and DeS even on base vitality with no armor there are very few things that actually one shot you. In DaS2 almost every boss in the game will one shot you on base vitality, most generic enemies too, after a while. There's also the ancient dragon which one shots you with 99 all stats and the highest resist armor in the game.
>>319212558
They definitely fucked up by trying to recapture the magic of Dark Souls 1 instead of making their own. As a result everything just felt like a knockoff of something in the first game. The big castle level, the dingy scaffolding world, the magical laboratory, the almost friendly looking forest, the skeleton crypt, all the story stuff with the king and the darkness or whatever, everything just felt like it had been done before.
>>319213660
Let's not forget the Naruto ninja squad waiting for you before Purgatory bridge.
And the fact that you can somehow aggro the farthest one before the closest one.
>>319196773
>hurr durr video games are meant to be played how I say
Stay lonely pleb
>>319212576
Tonnes if you don't feel like asceticing the fuck out of all your bonfires.
>>319213241
>>319213540
Nah, m8. As long as you kill him in the forest, his soul is yours, no matter how many tries it takes.
>>319213626
Too bad the meta cap in DS2 is 838 and it doesn't matter one bit how you get there.
>>319214394
I see, thanks.
>>319193465
>setting was all over the fucking place
>world isn't consistent
>fucked over the lore from DaS1
>boring bosses
>>319206896
this right here.but i'am a pirate so my fate is doing these games solo.one day i will buy the game and find buddy online and then co-op like there is no tomorrow...maybe ds 3 launch.
the game was decent to say the least.really liked forest ,bastille, castle, the gutter...damn to think about it i liked most areas.but the things that went wrong.too many bosses and too many bonfires.cant say anything about multiplayer
>>319193465
Multiple enemies with tracking attacks
>>319212915
That's a good tip, I'll use it. Thanks brah.
Pretty good game, I enjoyed playing it. It isn't as good as the others in its series.
That's really about it, I guess. It did a few things I liked (I'm a stupid casual who used respecs) and I didn't mind the "spokes on a wheel" world design, but I did think there were too many bonfires and each individual area was too linear with not enough shortcuts and cool stuff to find. Also the atmosphere wasn't as good.
I don't dislike it though.
>>319213715
Yeah they had a lot of established cities and territories to work from, instead opting to tell this cylical theme. I'm not sure if it's something DS's lore might have in common with other From releases or something, but it just doesn't work well within the context of the established universe of DS1
>>319208009
because its being ambiguous when it doesn't need to be. Look at the lore drop in the cut scene for the first game then look at what we learn for the cut scene in the second. There is no consistency to anything in the opening cut scene when when she says Drenliec its shows a castle that isn't even in the fucking game. We travel up a windmill in the middle of a wasteland and find ourselves in a fucking volcano. We were told the game was about the curse but we learned fuck all about it.
Bloodborne, a game about inter-dimensional gods and dreamscapes is easier to follow than the shit in DS2.
I hope they revamp the sorcery system for DS3
Sorcery only starts to get good once you've gone deep down the mage hole, but also SOUL ARROW and SMALLER BUT MORE NUMEROUS SOUL ARROW isn't interesting enough to warrant going full on wizard. I just want to be a slightly magical battle mage guy without gimping myself or having to resort to boring spells.
>>319216321
Are your posts just made of the recycled complaints of everyone else in the thread or something? What does any of that have to do with it somehow not being a sequel to a game it is clearly the sequel to?
>>319216321
I'm sure it's subject to debate but I always considered the transition between zones a gameplay convention rather than a story one. You either transitioned through time or space to tell the next part of x kingdoms story and downfall. I think it's done much better in the DLC where it's pretty obvious you're transported far away, sometimes in terms of time too.
>>319216690
It doesn't expand upon fuck all from 1 and might as well be a new universe. Apparently nothing in 1 made any difference.
There is so many questions, both big and small about DS1's world that need to be answered. Instad we got some incoherent shit that answered nothing. It's just a filler plot.
>>319216539
Well there adding a mana bar and a mana estus, so at least the count of spells you have has a chance of not being tied to your skill times the spell
>>319216539
This, holy shit.
That's exactly what I want. I want to be able to be a sword-mage without having to level Intelligence into the sky so that my spells don't all do shit damage. Pyromancy helps a bit but sorcery is more versatile.
I like some of what we saw in the network test but there's really no way of knowing until the game's out and we see how spells and stat scaling work.
The starting classes were shit. In DS1 every classes was alright and you could get reasonably far without leveling and changing your equipment.
Meanwhile, in DS2, especially if one hadn't played DS/DeS before, most classes are pretty fucking shitty and need quite a bit of investment before being decent. Base stats and base gear are terrible. Gifts are kinda shitty as well. Also no pyro starting class.
>warrior litterally has a broken weapon
>knight is "tanky" but has no shield, no helmet
>swordsman can't powerstance, ADP isn't high enough to make him feel agile
Bandit is alright. Could use a better weapon though.
>cleric can't one hand his weapon, only has a weird robe
>sorcerer's stats are so weak he can't use anything else than a dagger or a broken sword. Can't even use the first small shield. Spells are ok but not enough to even clear the first zone.
>explorer has no purpose
I know you can quickly level and gear yourself if you know what you're doing, but for anyone who played a souls game for the first time it's quite tedious.
>>319216880
It brings the idea of the fate of the kingdoms that rise and fall as being cycles. Where Lordoran once was is now Drangleic which will be somewhere else and so forth, and this is shown in the game as some elements from DS 1 being in this game too (shamelessly in some cases) and outright stated with the lord souls still sticking around but taken new forms. I don't think it entirely invalidates the end of DS 1 as your choices are to prolong the age of fire or end it, with the stuff in DS 2 taking place after the age of darkness that occurred after you made it happen or held it off for a bit longer at the end of DS 1.
You can argue how well the game did these things, but it is certainly still a sequel to DS 1.
>>319217623
They really ought to let you pick a custom starting class. The classes just confuse new players who think they matter and they just confuse returning players who are trying to min max their build.
>>319193465
Bad layout of the world.
Every other problem was fixed in SotFS
>>319215097
I think that works for enemies that have a despawn counter, not ones that are one time kills. Enemies should respawn once you join even if they have already despawned due to too many kills.
