Just did the true pacifist run thing.
So, wait...Someone dragged Chara's body out of the coffin, injected it with determination and "Frisk" came to life? So Frisk isn't even a kid in its own?
I must be missing something here.
Frisk and Chara are different people. When frisk fell into the underground, he landed on Chara's corpse and was possessed. Play a genocide run.
>>317307050
No, Frisk is just a kid who fell down into the Underground.
Frisk happens to look a bit like Chara, which is why Flowey mistakes you for her.Genocide reveals that Chara's body was removed from the coffin by Toriel, because she believe he deserved a proper burial. She was most likely buried under the tree in front of Toriel's home.
>>317307216
>>317307050
actually, Chara was buried under the tree where no leaves grow right before Toriel's House
>>317307216
>he landed on Chara's corpse and was possessed.
Frisk only gets possessed if you run Genocide, you can tell by how some of the narration changes from third person to first.
>>317307216
>possesed
Like anyone wouldn't wanna kill those monsters
>>317307371
Pretty sure Chara was buried under the flowers you land on at the start of the game.
>>317307371
Is that stated anywhere in the game?
Would be cool if it's true
>get attacked by monsters trying to kill me
>defend myself
>try to leave ruins but big goat beast standing blocking my way, attacking me
>kill her too in self-defense, she tells me i'm hateful even though she started it
>even more monsters attack me, slay them in self-defense
>tall skeleton shows up, threatens to capture me, he runs away
>find town, though it's deserted. everyone seems to have ran away from something, couldn't have been me since i've only been killing in self-defense
>run into him again, he claims to surrender but likely a trap in order to capture me as he mentioned earlier
>kill him in self-defense
>yet more monsters attack me, kill them in self-defense
>some kid shows up, standing in my way and threatens me
>attack him in self-defense, armored bitch shows up and takes it, turns into some sayian shit that's impossible to kill
>turns out the game is throwing this crap at me just because it doesn't think i'm playing it the right way and wants me to feel bad
>this is considered a goty by many
>>317307050
tb h this would have been a better plot but nah, you just fell on chara's grave and he went inside of you.
>>317307371
No, that tree is just a metaphor.
>>317307314
>her
>she
>>317307931
made me laugh
Naw see:
>Asriel died
>Asgore got pissed and declared jihad on little kids
>Toriel was so disgusted she took Chara's body from Asgore and brought it back to the Ruins for burial
>Golden Flower Seeds stuck to Chara's body, growing into the flower bed that Frisk falls onto
>When Frisk falls, Chara's essence reawakens possibly due to crazy monster god dickery
>Frisk's actions guide Chara's development
>Chara rests in peace if you go Pacifist
>Chara goes Satan if you go Genocide and takes over your soul and save file
>>317307371
Why do people think this. That's just dumb.
>>317307216
>>317307314
>>317307371
None of these explain why Frisk is wearing sticky bandages that become unequipable after you remove them.
OP's theory makes more sense possibly.
What are robots for?
>>317308237
Posing.
>>317308162
Because Frisk scraped his knee and he put a bandage on it? It's not that hard to imagine. It's not called "bandages".
Is it ever explained WHY chara is evil? Even when they were alive it was hinted they were a bad kid. Are there any details that I haven't picked up on or is it just being edgy for the sake of being edgy?
>>317308693
Chara didn't like their village, so they went down to monsterland and devised a plot to kill the people in the village.
>>317308162
The only thing left is who would even inject Chara's body with determination
>>317308693
Chara was depressed and cynical, a deadly combination.Asriel mentions this in secret dialogue after True Pacifist.
>>317308693
It's just told that Chara was a misanthrope who ventured to the mountain to escape mankind.
The real question is, why did Frisk venture to the mountain?
>>317308891
Nobody injected them, humans make determination naturally.
>>317308149
Naw see:
>Asriel died
>Asgore got pissed and declared jihad on little kids
>Toriel was so disgusted she took Chara's body from Asgore and brought it back to the Ruins
>Alphys had already injected plants with determination which were gathered from an unknown source
>Golden Flower Seeds stuck to Chara's body, growing into the flower bed that Frisk falls onto
>Frisk is born from Chara's body which was infused with determination for the first time
>Frisk's actions guide Chara's development
>Chara rests in peace if you go Pacifist
>Chara goes Satan if you go Genocide and takes over your soul and save file
>Chara fights Gaster if you go super genocide which has yet to be discovered.
Old Chara never had determination from the very start. That's why you see her coffin near the end because she already died once and couldn't revive herself since she never had it in the first place.
This is also why San's has the same power since Gaster probably figured it all out in the first place and he got it from him. San's gave up trying to save the monster world because he could never find a time line where they free themselves. Gaster is trapped within the game itself to observe everything and he can't find a way out either.
>>317308693
Asriel says Chara hated humans which is why they ran away to the mountain and fell down.
We don't know why they hate monsters now, but it can be assumed because Asriel screwed him out of the revenge against humans they wanted, when they merged souls with Asriel.
>>317308693
nope, only theories.
>>317308960
>Nobody injected them, humans make determination naturally.
None of the previous humans ever had determination.
My bet is that Gaster created it somehow and it got infused into a human for the first time by Toriel's actions.
>>317307050
I thought Frisk and Chara just looked really similar, so when Flowey saw Frisk he became obsessed
>>317309097
That's pretty much it.
>>317308162
Are you implying that a removed band-aid can be stuck back on?
>>317307371
Or under the flower bed at the start of the game. It'd make sense since Asriel's ashes were scattered among the flowers in the throne room. And both those places are directly connected to the surface.
>>317309060
Determination is a force assumed to be possessed naturally by humans due to the sheer strength of their souls.
The only reason Frisk determination matters is because their determination overrides floweys own.
>>317309060
humans have determination, whoever has the MOST determination can save/load
>>317309097
Yeah. Even in the end Asriel knows you're frisk and not chara but said you looked really alike. He was bored and when you showed up I guess he just wanted his brother back because "you're the only one who understands me". He was lonely.
>>317308237
>robot
>>317309302
>>317309321
there is no reason to assume they possess it naturally especially when 6 other humans failed to save/load.
there is no reason to assume that a human can gain the ability to save/load naturally as we aren't sure if Frisk is a completely natural human.
>>317307931
>deliberately walk around and exterminate every monster
>"hurr dis game is dumb for calling me a piece of shit"
Time to get the fuck back to preschool
>>317309443
What are ghosts for
>>317309321
>>317309481
The reason Frisk has enough determination to Save is because Chara possesses Frisk's body at the start of the game, no?
>>317309481
the determination from the other childern was extracted and put into flowey/the amalgamates and is why flowey has any in the first place
>want to do genocide run
>finally get the balls to kill all my friends
>find out there's a hardmode
>hardmode ends early
>don't feel like doing genocide again
baka senpai
Just do Genocide now, Anon.
This will explain the rest to you
>>317309598
The reason Frisk can save/load is because they have determination. Same as Flowey. That's as deep as it goes. The kids that fell all died during their journey, which is why you can find their weapons and armor. This is also why all the weapons are in Flowey's fight. Frisk had enough determination to keep going becauseYOU had enough determination to keep going.
>>317309776
>Napstablook is the only reason Asriel wasn't able to fully kill you
>>317308003
I'm sure it's obvious but care to explain?
>>317309481
The other 6 humans can't save/load because they're determination wasn't strong enough to do so.
"The will to keep living... The resolve to change fate. Let's call this power... "Determination."
The only characters with enough determination to save/load is Flowey and Frisk (technically Chara by the end of genocide.)
>>317307050
Toriel took Chara's body with her and buried it in the RUINS. Alphys injected the flower with Asriel's dust on it with Determination, resulting in Flowey.
Frisk is just a kid who fell down a hole, likely onto Chara's grave, and got possessed by a piece of them, hence the game telling you to "name the fallen human" and Asriel thinking you're Chara throughout the game.
>>317309924
>Any time this old tree grows any leaves, they fall right off again.toriel is the treeyou're a new leaf and you're gonna fall right off again
>>317309773
I know that feel, after true resetting, I set the name Frisk for kicks and was all set for Genocide.The only difference is that I went through all of Genocide mode. Those were the most fun bosses I had in the longest time, Anon
>>317309598
Chara already died once so I don't know where she got it from then.
>>317309635
Possible. I don't really know where it came from but it's possible that Gaster just sucked it all out of the other humans and put it into himself, sans and the remaining into the plants and amalgamates.
Frisk only got a small amount of concentrated determination when she fell onto that special bed of yellow flowers which Toriel seems to care for a lot for some reason. Or maybe something else happened, no idea.
>>317307931
>>317307371
Tree is just a metaphor for Mom of the Year. Chara was likely buried with the golden flowers a the start, since those only appear in select places throughout the game. Their body had seeds attached to it that likely took root after his burial.
>>317308149
Yes up until the last two lines. Chara is evil. If you don't genocide, they're not interested and don't do anything. If you genocide, then they start to possess Frisk.
>>317307850
I believe Flowey mentions something about "her" taking you in the Genocide Route, explaining the empty coffin.
>>317310037
the game explicitly tells you that the monsters were only able to get determination from the human souls
>>317308162
But if you take the bandage off you can re-equip it as a health item.
>>317308693
Some kids are just born bad, anon.
>>317310037
Gaster's not responsible for the creation of Flowey or the Amalgamates, Alphys is.
Gaster most likely just created the DT extraction machine blueprints.
>>317309975
This doesn't explain why Chara has a coffin that's empty.
This doesn't explain where Alphys got determination and from what she extracted it from.
It's possible Sans has it but it's hard to say. Undyne also possible showed herself having some as well.
Undyne got it because she gained power from all the other monsters somehow. I'm starting to think Gaster genocided a ton of monsters to extract all of their determination little by little but im not sure about that one.
>>317309097
>I thought Frisk and Chara just looked really similar
But they don't. At all.
>>317309505
>tfw no free EXP
>>317308149
I thought Toriel was pissed because Asgore wanted to break the barrier but was a pussy and wouldn't take a soul, step out, harvest outside souls and break it so much faster than waiting
>>317310268
The plants had determination injected into them by alphys. Tons of plants got that treatment but it was only the plant with Asriels dust that started to appear to do anything.
The other plants are still in the true lab, tons of them. They aren't just laying around there for no reason if Alphys didn't experiment with them.
>>317310325
Yes alphys did the rest. The point is that they got it from somewhere and that's where some of it went.
>>317310086
>tfw someone calls some shit i wrote on the fly copypasta
t-thanks!
>>317307050
Chara is easily the worst character in the game. Everything about him is halfassed, and he ruined the whole genocide run.
>>317310334
>This doesn't explain why Chara has a coffin that's empty.
Toriel moved the body.
>This doesn't explain where Alphys got determination and from what she extracted it from.
Alphys works for Asgore and could extract determination from the six souls he had in his possession.
>>317310334
>This doesn't explain why Chara has a coffin that's empty.
Asgore made it for him after he died, duh.
>This doesn't explain where Alphys got determination and from what she extracted it from.
Human souls. DT Extractor in the True Lab.
Basically you're a fucking retard who didn't pay any attention. And only Undyne has Determination, somehow. It's never explained. I dunno. Maybe her dad was pic related.
>>317308963
>>Golden Flower Seeds stuck to Chara's body, growing into the flower bed that Frisk falls onto
The first golden flower to ever bloom in the Underground bloomed in the place where Chara-Asriel's dust was scattered. Which means that the wide-spreading of the Golden Flowers, ESPECIALLY to the extent that we see in Alphys's true lab, could not have happened for some span of time after the events of their death.
IN ADDITION
Alphys became the new Royal Scientist after "inventing" Mettaton.
I quote
>"Mettaton is a robot built with a soul (heavily implied to be that of Napstablook's cousin) by Alphys, initially as a human hunting machine but later becoming the sole television star of the Underground."
Mettaton was created initially to be a human hunting machine. This is verified as the truth in a Genocide playthrough from Mettaton himself.
That means that Asgore MUST have declared war on Humanity and Toriel MUST have left him and taken Chara's body before Alphys ever could have become Royal Scientist.
Additionally, we have some idea about a time-frame that the games take place in: Chara fell into the mountain in 201X. Papyrus's username on social media is "coolskeleton95", which means Papyrus was "born" in one way or another some 80 years after the events of Chara's death.
hey kid, wanna smoke dog treats
>>317310570
The original theory I replied to did not explain that.
>>317310329
Man this place really likes tumblr and reddit
Reminder that Sans cannot frown and if you think he can then you're fucking retarded
Skeletons can only smileThey're also not cute you fucking fag
>>317310662
*Ditch
>>317310334
>>317310541
Flowey confirms Toriel took Chara from their grave to give them a proper burial where they're buried we don't know.
The determination was extracted from the human souls Alphys' entries in the True Lab also confirm this
ENTRY NUMBER 5: I've done it. Using the blueprints, I've extracted it from the human SOULs. I believe this is what gives their SOULs the strength to persist after death. The will to keep living... The resolve to change fate. Let's call this power... "Determination."
We don't know if Sans has it for sure it would make sense if he does. Undyne is stated to have innate determination which is how she survives and becomes Undyne the Undying. We don't know how she got her determination but most people assume due to her long training with Asgore since she was a kid.
JUST A REMINDER THAT GENOCIDE IS FOR BITCHES AND QUANTUM PACIFISM IS WHERE IT'S AT
>>317310949
you mean
Paci-fist
>>317310895
>We don't know if Sans has it for sure it would make sense if he does
I don't think he does since he'd be melting if he did.
>>317310949
>not setting yourself to 1HPIt took me 71 tries on the dot to no-hit Sans.
>>317308963
>Old Chara never had determination from the very start.
All humans have determination, but if it's not powerful enough it can't be used to save. Frisk combined his determination and the determination from Chara to gain the power to save. Flowey gained the power to save by combining the souls of the six children.
>>317308162
Have you ever stuck a Band-Aid and tried to place it again? It's just not the same.
>>317309867
Something I don't get: did the other six kids have the same kind of determination, or is Frisk special? If they did, does that mean they all just gave up, or were their souls captured before they could reset?
>>317310949
Is Quantum Pacifism where every enemy you've encountered is in flux, and may either be dead or not and cannot be observed without leaving the Quantum Pacifism path?
>>317311143
They either didn't have it or they didn't have enough.
Hard to say really.
>>317309592
Smooching.
>>317310949
>Quantum pacifism
Real troopers go for quantum genocide. Get on my level, anon.
>>317311037
I'm going to spare him and set the timeline to true pacifist once he falls asleep so I'm not sure that fits.
Also this attack and the next one are the most annoying ones in a sense. They are extremely easy to dodge but you just have to deal with them right off the bat every time you fuck up and have to restart
>>317311105
I considered committing to that, but I decided that my real goal for the time being was to overcome his fight with pacifist stats to SPARE THE FUCK OUT OF THAT SKELETON. the side result is that I can indeed do most of his fight without getting hit at this point.
also I didn't think to count since I wasn't planning to do this for the statistics, but was that no hit sans your first goal or had you fought sans before. For me this is my first time(s) facing sans.
>>317311143
considering the souls can rebel against flowey I would guess that they gave up at some point and maybe even had the power to save/load themselves
>>317311143
Doesn't matter.
>>317311119
>Flowey gained the power to save by combining the souls of the six children.
No, Flowey had it before. He just couldn't save when you were around because his ability to save was weaker than yours.
If you played Genocide you would know this.
>>317311368
Was a goal. Took me 12 tries to beat Sans originally.
>>317311065
It would explain why he could survive your attack for so long after being hit but its hard to say either way.
>>317311143
All Humans have determination but not all of them have enough to save/load
Frisk does for some reason we don't know why.
>finish neutral and then true pacifist route
>had fun
>decide to try genocide run knowing with be filled with grinding and probably hard bosses
>everything is different and the game is a lot fucking easier (and creepier)
>get to Undyne
>"Hey bitch, prepare to die..."
>get fucking rekt by Undyne
>mfw
Man I don't even want to imagine the Sans battle
>>317311421
>No, Flowey had it before. He just couldn't save when you were around because his ability to save was weaker than yours.
Ok, but with 6 more souls he was able to override Frisk's/Chara's
>>317309881
I don't get this.
>>317311430
>It would explain why he could survive your attack for so long after being hit but its hard to say either way
Sans is too lazy to die on time.
>>317311573
Here's a tip:you're gonna have a bad time.
>>317311575
This is correct because of the sheer power he would have. Also I believe in technicality he would only have needed one, MAYBE two souls.
>>317311620
he didn't get absorbed by asriel when all of the monster souls were absorbed and people somehow think ONE monster soul was enough to make the difference when frisk was already tanking the end of the world.
>>317310643
80 years...? Asgore and Toriel are far too young looking. Asriel and chara seem to be the same age at all times so their monster type must age at the same rate as humans. I think it's far likelier that papyrus was born in 1995.
>>317311573
You wanted to be a murdering piece of shit, so you're gonna have a bad time.
>>317311650
I will glady, take that as an explanation. Makes about as much sense as anything else.
>>317311573
>thinking you deserve to win against the collective will of the Underground
Enjoy losing your anal virginity to spears.
So does Chara lose even in the post genocide pacifist run?
Cause he can never kill Napstablook because he is corporeal. So that has to piss Chara off
PUSSYFISTS CAN FUCK OFFlike seriously, some people think the characters have free will, what the fuck man
>>317311575
>but with 6 more souls he was able to override Frisk's/Chara's
At least until said souls make like Jerry and ditch the fuck out of him.
>>317311709
>Asgore and Toriel are far too young looking
Well yeah, they stopped aging when Asriel died.
>>317311573
Don't worry kid, all you have to do ishave a bad time
>>317311709
monsters don't age if they don't have children
>>317308693
Chara was intelligent, nihilistic, and had a wicked sense of humor.
>>317310008
>>317309924
The areas just represent the seasons. Ruins are autumn, with red, fallen leaves around. Snowdin is fucking obvious. Waterfall is "rainy" with flowers growing. Hotland is hot.
People are overthinking the tree.
>>317311775
>So does Chara lose even in the post genocide pacifist run?
Nope. If you genocide and sell your soul he's won until you figure out how to be above consequences.
That's what he's wanted the entire time: to reach the surface and kill everyone.
>>317311707
"It would take the SOUL of every living monster to equal the might of even one human SOUL."
With Napstablook, Asriel would have had TECHNICALLY seven human souls. He would have ascended into literal godhood instead of just being so ridiculously fucking powerful he could destroy nigh everything.
Also with Frisk's actions that likely made his power wane just a bit as wellconsidering he might have loosened the grip Asriel also had on at least five boss souls.
>>317311907
No but if he cant kill Napstablook has he truly won
>>317311709
>Asgore and Toriel are far too young looking
They stopped aging after theirkidbit thedust.
>chara commits sudoku
>asriel takes his soul to cross the barrier
>chara takes over and tries to kill the people who are attacking him/asriel
>battle of souls internally
>asriel wins
>walks home and dies
>chara's souls goes somewhere
>...
>...
>chara is now a world devouring demon
What am I missing here
And how did a monster soul beat a human one
>>317311873
>>317311828
Wait what? Is this said in the game? I don't remember this.
>>317312040
Gerson (the turtle shopkeep) tells you.
>>317312002
>And how did a monster soul beat a human one
Home turf advantage? I don't fucking know.
>>317312002
Their souls fused so it came down to willpower and Asriel's trumped Chara's
>>317312040
Gerson confirms this. Toriel and Asgore are boss monsters species of monsters who only age when their children do.
The way I see it the ''player character's'' soul found Frisk and possessed him, the soul made Frisk go up the mountain and fall down the hole.
Every time you do something good it's Frisk who does it, every time you do something bad it's ''the player character's'' soul in Frisks body.
>>317312160
>Their souls fused
But they didn't. Absorbed souls don't fuse, otherwise when Edgegoat spat them up they'd all be stuck together in one great big spiritual orgy.
>>317312002
There was unlikely to have been a battle of souls, Chara's soul joined with Asriel willingly so I doubt the rules are the same.
I finally finished this thing, it was good.
Did anybody die against Omega Flowey? I asked some friends if they did and everyone did, but I thought that was a really easy, although intense fight.
>>317312254
Nah. Souls can total rebel, just look at Omega Flowey. Goatkid was Chara's bitch for 90% of the trip and somehow managed to turn the tables just as he was about to kill everyone.
>>317312040
This happens because, when a Monster has a child, their Soul is slowly being drained and is filling up their child's body.
When the child monster reaches adulthood, the parent monsters probably don't have much time left and will soon "fall down."
Reminder that Sans is a human
The meming autism is this game seems to be narrative catnipfor hooking redditors. Nevertheless I am impressed with the developers apparent business acument in this regard.
My question is this: Was all of this lore shit present in the early alphas of the game or did the dev twig onto user theories and start adding in shit in response?
>>317312386
Those souls didn't join with Flowey willingly though which is what I said, Chara specifically wanted to join with Asriel.
>>317312449
Only with boss monsters, since they're inherently immortal
>>317312339
>Omega Flowey
Better do true Pacifist run, Anon. And then Genocide. You're missing out on a ton
>>317311143
Frisk heart/soul is red and is for determination. The flag pole with the snowball very early on will show each color and their "trait". They might have had determination but Frisk's is pure determination.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDVaiwzU8yc
>how would you kill mommy and daddy?
>stab
>>317312339
The damage of Flowey's attacks negatively scales with your remaining health, so it'll be difficult to die to him, but possible.
It's a good fight, but like Asriel, it focuses on being more emotionally impactful than being challenging.
To get an actual challenge, you'd have do to Genocide and take on Undyne and Sans.But you wouldn't do that... right?
>>317311784
>free will
the very notion of free will makes no sense in the first place, but what does it have to do with pacifist.
>>317312552
Askele-ton
>>317312552
No no, I just finished True Pacifist too, I just wanted to know if anybody here had trouble with Omega Flowey.
And I don't want to make a Genocide route right now, I just finished reading more lore stuff.
>>317312617
Not right now, I still want to experience the fights in some other time tho.
>>317312617
>emotionally impactful
What
There's no emotion to it, its more supposed to make you go "oh shit" than anything, what with how quickly everything is flying at you
You're getting them mixed up, Asriel is the emotion fight
>>317312339
Flowey is just a test on everyone's bullet hell experience. Most who have played even the easier titles (2hu) of the genre can beat him pretty easy.Omega Flowey could be a decent early/mid-game 2hu boss if not for save state fuckery guaranteeing a hit every now and then with the rigged RNG
>>317312656
>niggas don't know bout our illusion of free will
And that's part of the point I think the original person was maybe, hopefully, trying to make.
>>317312503
He planned it from the start probably.
The original demo and old promotional material contain many hints to the the shit that happens in the final game. Through misdirection and obfuscation, they never made sense until the game finally came out.
>>317311951
nigga he was at 6.99 human souls worth of souls which is far more than the value of every monster soul and frisk was still able to just say "nah fuck this". I mean if he had every soul including naptsta then he would have had the value of 1 human soul which frisk already over came so I don't think you really have an argument there.
>>317312571
Nicu catch-e!
>>317312656
pacifist fags going all like
>If you do genocide you are a monster, let them live a happy life after they went through all that, after flowey message I'll let them be happy forever
>>317311707
Where do people find that Napsta didn't get absorbed?
>>317312780
I think ''surprise'' is an emotion too.Right?
>>317312874
You seem to miss the part where precisely seven human souls makes you a god.
He was not QUITE there, just LUDICROUSLY close.
>>317312965
By talking to him.
>>317312912
I just don't want to. I got the ending I wanted and I'm fine with that. The only other thing I want out of this game is a finished hard mode, but unfortunately I think all of hard mode went into the sans fight and that's the end of that.
>>317312850
well yes if you are talking about the illusion of free will that's a different story.
>>317312912
so it's not free will you were referring to which has nothing to do with this, but just people acting as if the characters are real?
>tfw true pacifist ending an hour ago
I can't go genocide...I can't erase their happy memories
A bit long but here goes
Also contains some pretty hefty spoilers but whatever
>at some point Chara leaves their village with contempt for humans
>climbs Mt. Ebott for an unknown reason and falls into the ruins
>Chara is taken in by Toriel and Asgore and raised alongside their own child Asriel
>Chara is a bully to Asriel but still manages to foster a "friendship" with him
>Chara and Asriel devise a plan to destroy the barrier through Chara's sacrifice
>Asriel takes their soul and uses it to cross the barrier so they can collect six additional human souls to destroy it
>after Chara dies and Asriel absorbs their soul Chara takes over control of their union with their true goal of using their newfound power to attack the humans
>after reaching the village and taking Chara's corpse to the golden flowers Asriel manages to regain control over his body and prevent Chara from attacking the humans instead leaving with the body in peace
>Asriel sustaining terrible wounds from the humans dies shortly after returning underground
>his death creates a cloud of dust that was mixed with seeds of the golden flower from Chara's village
>when a monster dies they turn into dust and their essence "inhabits" whatever object the dust is sprinkled on
>due to the death of his children Asgore declares war on the humans and vows to escape the underground
>>317313109
You can set Undertale to 60FPS in cheat engine for your Hard Mode
>>317313008
that was all supposition. Asriel appears to have the power to destroy reality as he was. it wasn't his lack in power that saved the world, but rather your connection to the monsters he had absorbed.
>>317313148
i know how you feel bro
i really want to redo the final bossfights because they were so good
>>317313184
>Asgore captures and extracts the souls of the next six humans to fall into the ruins
>Asgore enlists Gaster and later Alphys to experiment on the power of the human soul
>Alphy's discovers the power of determination allows the human soul to persist after death and grant strange powers
>Alphy's attempts to artificially inject determination extracted from the six human souls into recently deceased monsters creating the amalgams
>Alphys also tries injecting determination onto inanimate objects
>a golden flower was used due to it being Asgore's favorite
>the flower chosen was one that sprouted from Asriel's dust
>it contained his essence brought him back to life albeit without a soul and with the powers of save and reload
>due to the killing of the six humans or the experiments of their souls Toriel leaves Asgore and takes Chara's body and gives it a proper burial
>Asriel, or Flowey, starts fucking around with save and reload trying different things like befriending everyone or outright killing them all just to see what would happen
>Flowey having no soul feels no sadness or remorse for his actions
>eventually Frisk falls into the ruins
At this point I like to think that due to the time spent powered up by joining souls with Asriel Chara has the ability to hijack a soul that is similar to their own. Therefore when you start killing monsters and initiate a genocide run Chara is able to posses Frisk more and more as your Lv. increases.
That and the fact Chara's body was supposedly buried under the leafless tree suggests the close proximity to Frisk in the beginning helped catalyze the possesion.
If I missed anything or anyone has anything to add please do
>>317313146
free will as in they can make their own decisions and are rational, so yeah, like if the characters are real and not lines of codeswake up sheeple
I think the whole "you possess the player character only if you a genocide run" thing is stupid.
Aren't you the one influencing him to be a good person in the pacifist routes?
>>317313008
Except Monster souls disappear when they die, so the actual quantity of souls is continually fluctuating, so that makes no sense.
But also, the words used were NEARLY every monster soul would be needed to equal a single human soul, so that doesn't fit.
BUT ALSO Asriel managed to destroy the barrier, an action that requires 7 human souls, so he clearly had the equivalent, so that also disproves it.
So stop having stupid head canon.
>>317312567
Every time I read one of these threads I learn something new.
>>317313148
Their memories aren't real and flowey mentions it in the final parts of the pacifist run.
He mentions that if you beat him, he will give you your happy ending with all of your friends and he will break the barrier.
If he already knows what the ending is then im starting to question if it's even a real ending at all and if you're actually still stuck inside the game despite what the ending seems like.
I've been wondering why you never see any other humans in the pacifist run ending.
>>317308936
It's never stated why, I think his reason for coming is purely up to the player.
>>317313892
>I've been wondering why you never see any other humans in the pacifist run ending.
Because we got to see a skeleton driving a sports car
Who needs human interaction when you've got some high speed bones cruising around
Does anyone have the comic where Frisk tells Asgore how many times he's killed him and Asgore just stabs the little motherfucker?
>>317313892
you are seeing monsters doings stuff in the human world and humans would keep their distance from monsters
>>317313892
There is a theory that all humans are dead, and that's why frisk goes to the underground.
to me it's total bullshit desu senpai
>>317313184
>Chara and Asriel devise a plan to destroy the barrier through Chara's sacrifice
i thought Chara poisoned himself but appeared ill to everyone else so that he could heed his last request to see the gold flower shit. Thus making him absorb his soul and going outside and starting the whole shitfest. It's explained that when he gets attacked that Chara wanted to murder everyone but Asriel held him back since they were split on controlling the body.
>>317314102
>>317314173
>>317314193
Sorry m8's.
Pacifist ending isn't real and you fags got meme'd into thinking it was despite flowey telling you in plain english that it wasn't real.
>>317313892
>he will give you your happy ending with all of your friends and he will break the barrier.
No he doesn't, he says if you beat him, YOU'LL do that
>>317314358
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yru0mRndqY
>at 3:30
>If you DO defeat me, I'll give you your "happy ending."
TUMBLR BLOWN THE FUCK OUT
>>317314225
Taken from the tapes
Tape 4
-(Asriel)
*I… I don’t like this idea, (PLAYER).
*Wh… what?
*N-no, I’m not…
*… big kids don’t cry.
*Yeah, you’re right.
*No!
*I’d never doubt you, (PLAYER)…
*Never!
*Y… yeah!
*We’ll be strong!
*We’ll free everyone.
*I’ll go get the flowers.
Tape 5
-(Toriel)
*(PLAYER)…
*Can you hear me?
*We want you to wake up…
-(ASGORE)
*(PLAYER)!
*You have to stay determined!
*You can’t give up…
*You are the future of humans and monsters…
-(Asriel)
*…
*Psst… (PLAYER)…
*Please… wake up…
*I don’t like this plan anymore.
*I… I…
*… no, I said…
*I said I’d never doubt you.
*Six, right?
*We just have to get six…
*And we’ll do it together, right?
>>317314225
No, Asriel was privy to the plan of Chara dying, being absorbed, then taking enough souls to break the barrier. How much of that was lies and Chara just wanting to kill people is never specified.
Maybe he really would have just gotten 6 Souls, freed the monsters, and not done anymore. Maybe he would have done that, but then lead the war. Maybe he thought he could take control, and just kill the humans while leaving the monsters trapped. Or maybe he just wanted the power to destroy the world. We don't know.
>>317314225
The home movies showed Asriel was on board with the plan until it was time to kill people, when you talk to Asriel during the ending he also tells you he was going along with it
>>317313260
Torial brought his body to the patch of golden leaves that frisk lands on, not the leaveless tree
>>317313565
You are Frisk, his determination and ability to save/load is your doing. I guess you're possessing him in a way.
At the end of Genocide Chara says that he's been following you the entire time, and gaining LV allowed him to have a tighter and tighter grip on your soul. Reaching 20 lets Chara possess you entirely
>>317307931
At least it's better than Spec Ops were they only give you one choice then proceed to chastise you for it. Spec Ops was considered great when it came out, but it's message hasn't aged well and people finally understand why it's narrative is flawed. In time, people will knowledge that Undertale is too quick to judge the player for not adapting to a play style that is unfamiliar to them.
>>317314526
Because he wants you to keep playing, so he dangles the opportunity in front of your face. And he of course knows he CAN do it, because being strong enough to break the barrier is the entire point of his plan.
>>317311882
the supreme gentleman
The only reason to do the Genocide run is for the Sans fight and you can just quit after you beat him and Chara cannot fuck the rest of your game up.
I think the ending of the genocide run was a missed opportunity, all the selling your soul with Chara's spirit was overdoing it.
Sans trapping you in a turn that never ends would have been such a perfect end to everything, a martyrdom-style end for Sans and what it means for you the player to have a turn-based system used against you and you're forced to have the Reset be your ending.
>If you hum with Shyren until her farewell song, you learn Shyren's song which in Knight Knight's act screen puts her to sleep in two turns instead of three
This fucking game
>>317314846
>Using the stick makes Madjick think you're a wizard and you can instantly spare him
>>317314121
This one?
>>317308693
Because Chara is YOU
>>317313803
Right, I do forget about the "don't mind me just smashing down the barrier" parteven though everything about the barrier is fucking bullshit anyways because Frisk can safely leave in Pacifist without a monster's soul.
>>317314846
Papyrus and Mettaton will catch the Stick if you throw it for them.
Changing outfits in the Mettaton fight will give you style points
Getting deliberately hit by all of Undyne's first few attacks when you fight her (normally) will make her really angry and she'll hit you with a difficult barrage out of frustration, and you can then run away.
>>317312507
Like one anon said here before, could be that the kids' souls either stopped giving a shit or were in a torpor after being locked up for so long. Frisk's calls for help apparently was waking them up one by one.
So it's crazy to think that Chara's soul just said "fuck it" and bailed on him the moment he struggled to not kill the humans. Would also explain why humans "killed" a human-monster fusion. They didn't actually succesfully damaged him, but rather he was falling apart once Chara's soul peaced and left Asriel to tank it.
>>317314974
>using the stick on any of the dogs causes them to play fetch and instantly allows you to spare them
>>317314349
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BptqPXUMnZI
>>317315113
>Including Endogeny
>>317308693
There are two Charas. One is the real Chara that fell into the mountain long ago. The other is "Chara", the manifestation of the player's desire to level up and become more powerful.
It was only stated that the real Chara hated humans. And that they played mean spirited practical jokes. Which doesn't make them evil. It just makes them kind of an asshole.
The murderous "Chara" only manifests, if you succumb to the desire to gain as much LV as possible. This version of Chara has no soul. He's just pure murderous intent. He's only edgy, because the player willed the edginess.
>>317314349
oh yeah, right. Thanks for showing the proof to your theory. That's a really good proof m8. Yeah, you showed me real good that i was wrong! Ha, rats!
>>317314769
So we're ignoring the fact that the pacifist ending showed no humans whatsoever.
And we're ignoring the fact that humans do exist as shown in the very beginning of the game.
tumblr sure is good at ignoring tons of things to fit their narrative.
>>317307931
>literally would only get this if you grinded and had nothing better to do than to make sure everything is dead
Worse than hitler.
>>317315040
I noticed that too.
Best I can figure is that Flowey somehow dragged you through it during his fight.
>>317312552
>>317315130
This and the pacifist ending is what made me think the pacifist ending was never real in the first place.
Also there's tons of hints that a secret genocide run will unlock a fight against Gaster whos controlling the entire game itself.
Gaster actually has stats and he gives NEGATIVE exp and gold. Someone with high lvl and exp could redeem themselves by killing Gaster if they could figure out how.
>>317315139
Oh shit that's right, I forgot about that one
>>317314986
Yeah that one, thanks
>>317312502
>>317315156
Did you know all of the adults in peanuts are horrible space mutants from the waist up?
People ignore the obvious truth because it doesn't fit their narrative.
>>317312617
>But you wouldn't do that... right?
>>317315150
the real Chara literially poisoned himself to death to manipulate his adoptive brother into a situation where he would have to kill or be killed.
It is also heavily implied he attempted to poison Asgore to take his soul.
That is a few steps above asshole.
>>317315262
I love that fucking face
>>317313148
It's useless, anon. You might as well see what you missed the first two times before moving on.
>>317315297
>This and the pacifist ending is what made me think the pacifist ending was never real in the first place.
If anything it's evidence it IS real, why would Flowey care about you ripping a fake happy ending away from Frisk and the others if it was just fake anyway.
>>317308693
Chara is real friend
http://youtu.be/g2-Re_Fl_L4
>>317315442
Why are you so anally annihilated that the pacifist ending isn't even real?
>>317310276
is this a Jojo reference?
>>317313184
>>317313260
Yeah pretty much. Also your soul and his are the only red ones in the game. In fact, the only other place you see a red soul than the coffin in Asgore's basement is the evil looking machine at the end of the True Lab.
>>317315297
>Also there's tons of hints that a secret genocide run will unlock a fight against Gaster
Hints such as?
>>317312339
It basically comes down to whether or not he spams the bullet hell eye lasers or not. If you're like me, and he used those exclusively when he first showed up, and you weren't ready for it, it's pretty easy to die.
The rest of his patterns don't really do enough damage though, no.
>>317315623
Why would flowey exist in the first place after the pacifist ending which is what this video implies?
It implies that flowey still exists and that hes allowing the happy ending to exist which implies that it's an illusion so that everyone else can be happy.
He begs you to not fuck with what hes done because he knows you have greater save/load power.
Face it nigger, shits fake, and it's going to remain fake until someone finds a way to kill gaster and break the game completely.
>>317315702
Considering it's traced over a Jojo page, I wouldn't count on it.
>>317315769
Secret music, Gasters Theme, Meat Factor, 2 others im forgetting.
Secret Stats, Gaster has higher stats than Asriel and gives negative EXP and gold
Secret Gaster encounters throughout the game where he speaks in wingding
>>317315867
i've only seen the anime jus making sure
>>317309481
Look, this is simple shit.
Flowey's determination was huge. It probably overrides a normal human's.
Other humans that fall probably cant save/load because Flowey is such a dick.
Chara, however, stole Frisk's soul. That's like 1+1.
Flowey overrides your ability to save after he gets the 6 human souls, proving that those souls at least at some point had SOME determination within them, but obviously not enough for any more than 1 human to ever make it to the core.
That's it.
>>317314225
Chara was lying. His true intention was to use their power to wipe out his village.
>>317315130
Should have never told me you little weed. I reset and killed everyone to finish the game.
>>317314732
I think Undertale is on the right path in regards to its morality system. Only a few things need twinkling as the only glaring problem, outside of it being a jRPG, is that some people think the game is too harsh with its criticisms of those who go neutral. The reactions on a pacifist/Geno run are fine and don't need changing.
>>317315539
Chara only did that because he hated humans. Who is to say that the humans didn't deserve it?
Or even if they didn't deserve it. Chara is still just a child, so he's not going to make the best decisions.
Also, the monsters only liked Chara, because Chara represented hope. Every monster knew, that one day his soul was theirs to use to try and escape the barrier.
>hes allowing the happy ending to exist which implies that it's an illusion so that everyone else can be happy.
>>317314576
What kind of fucking moon logic do you work on?
>>317315838
>Face it nigger, shits fake, and it's going to remain fake until someone finds a way to kill gaster and break the game completely.
see >>317315838
Have fun with your tin-foil hat theories.
>>317315150
There isn't two Charas. There's Chara, the character, and Character, the demon/manifestation of the player's RPG mindset. One died and became the other.
>>317315971
Doesn't Flowey absorbing more souls not really increase his Save/Load power, but rather gives him more save slots to fuck with?
>>317316064
Huh, those replies were meant to be in reverse. Wtf.
Either way, you're an idiot.
>>317316064
>Have fun with your tin-foil hat theories.
back to tumblr faggot.
>>317316079
>One died and became the other.
Right, after losing his soul, and being reawakened through the player's blood lust.
>>317316098
It does both
>>317316291
Basically. But they're still the same, like Flowey and Asriel. One entity becoming another, both coming from the same source. It's pointless semantics.
>>317315660
This video is such a coincidence.Right?
>>317314732
>>317316009
It would be cool for a game like Undertale to require the murder of specific people or doing specific bad events to get the "best" ending. I was expecting saving Flowey to royally fuck over your perfect ending, to prove the point that some people really aren't worth it.
Of course, that wouldn't work in Undertale because all of the monsters are lovely people and you CAN make friends with all of them.
>>317316201
>back to tumblr
Don't even have a tumblr nig-nog, back to >>>/b/ with you.
>>317315947
But if people have delved this deep into the game's code, wouldn't they have found whatever triggers this fight?
>>317312571
Wait, did you just find Toby's source for Frisk?
That shirt/hair combo, and her words. What?
>>317316342
Semantics matter, because if it's not understood how Chara became evil, then it would be assumed that he was always evil.
>>317315660
>>317312571
>the hair
>the shirt
>the knife
>the yellow skin because of lighting or whatever
whoa
>>317316365
back to tumblr
>>317316368
as far as I know they havent gone through the entire game and they're still discovering new things.
check out /r/underminers
people found some new unused text as well here
>https://www.reddit.com/r/Underminers/comments/3tj4e7/unused_text_i_havent_seen_mentioned/
>>317316352
>tfw that guy is literally me
being in your early twenties is suffering
>>317316352Yeah it is actually
>>317315660
brb, naming my character Beth to see what happens
>>317316009
The thing about choices in video games in general is that we not only need to break away from the binary "You're the big guy ever" or "You're the worst guy ever" as well as neutral paths. There is no true neutrality. If you kill a few enemies in the beginning of the game and change you're mind early on, yes you should deal with consequences, but they should be different than if you kill more people in a neutral run. Basically, it lazy to have three morality options in a game. Not as lazy as only having two, but still lazy.
>>317316647
Nah, since you're such a blatant faggot how about back heading back to >>>/mlp/ for us, chum.
>>317312851
Is the character in between Napstablook and Undyne supposed to be Temmie?
>>317316647
>tells someone to go back to tumblr
>posts reddit
this is why we need shitposter-kun
>>317316782
>gets blown the fuck out
>has no argument
>shit posts about hurr durr back to /b/
back to tumblr faggot
Friendly reminder that Undertale ends with Chara winning.
>>317316647
That's not how content mining works, buddy. Especially not in Game Maker.
Obviously there are still bits and bobs that can elude people, but actual resources such as sprites, major triggers, and scripts? You can't hide that.
There is no Gaster fight, this is fact.
So uh
Chara was from what, the 1910's? 1920's? Somewhere around there?
Why is he from a village and not a town?
Where the hell does this game take place?
>>317316940
>Obviously there are still bits and bobs that can elude people, but actual resources such as sprites, major triggers, and scripts? You can't hide that.
The exe still hasnt been completely penetrated yet so no. There's still hidden text that people haven't found.
Let's not forget that one of gasters followers LITERALLY says that hes holding a piece of gaster in his hand. Gasters complete sprite is scattered across the game and gets made on the fly.
>There is no Gaster fight, this is fact.
stating it as a fact does not make it a fact. true fact m8.
>>317317046
He's from 201X, dingus.
>>317316905
>>gets blown the fuck out
Where exactly?
>>has no argument
Your argument amounts to "I don't believe the pacifist ending is real because I'm an edgelord faggot and some shit about gastor that will never happen"
like I said, >>>/b/ or /mlp/ pick one and fuck off.
>>317316536
>then it would be assumed that he was always evil
>poisons his adoptive father and laughs it off
>tricks his adoptive brother into killing him and absorbing his soul
>tries to destroy humanity
He was definitely evil when he came to the Underground.
>>317316929
How so?
He only wins if you let him.
He won't win if you don't do Genocide. And you don't need to do genocide. I certainly didn't, and don't plan to.
>>317317110
>Chara
>201X
Frisk and Chara are seperate characters Anon.
Chara is the first kid.
Frisk is the current kid.
>>317316601
The resemblance is uncanny I know. Makes me wonder if Toby watched this video before coming up with them.
>>317317046
Literally 201X, you fucking moron.
>>317317118
>Your argument amounts to "I don't believe the pacifist ending is real because I'm an edgelord faggot and some shit about gastor that will never happen"
>If I ignore his argument then he doesn't have an argument!
>Anyone that doesn't agree with me is from /b/ or /mlp/
fuck off back to tumblr faggot.
