Piracy vs Used Games: which hurts game developers more?
http://poal.me/3601o9
Pirating the game.
Reselling physical copies just moves around the value that was purchased at the initial sale; it doesn't actually shortchange the publisher in any real way since the total supply remains constant - and, of course, they already got their money. Pirating the game actually adds a copy of the game into the supply that was not paid for, thus leaving the developer uncompensated for their work. People who buy a used copy, are also more likely to pay for legitimate dlc as well.
>>316833489
You're wrong.
>>316833009
Piracy for PC, Used games for consoles
>>316833807
>Piratefag
>This is his only counter argument
>>316833009
Piracy, the "if I like it, I'll buy it" excuse is total bullshit.
>>316834391
I've bought every triple A game I liked and pirated before hand. Ones I didn't like I uninstalled and forgot about. I don't pirate anything but triple As because usually they suck.
People who try to justify their piracy are complete faggots. I don't care if someone pirates a game, hell, I do it all the time, but trying to somehow make it into a "just" thing is ridiculous. I just pirate because I don't want to pay for something I can just as easilly have for free.
Used games.
It's legal to do, so moralfags don't feel bad about buying used, when in reality the developer sees the same amount of money from used games and piracy.
At least with piracy there's a 1% chance someone buys a game after pirating, as opposed to buying used where there's almost no chance someone will buy a new copy. Plus, gamestop makes used practically their entire business model.
When you buy used, some 3rd party makes money. When you pirate, no-one makes money/
It's very difficult to objectively determine this. There are so many factors at work in both cases that there's no easy way to determine it. Many people that buy used games wouldn't buy a game new because the cost would be prohibitive, and people that buy games in the first place might not do it if they knew they wouldn't be able to sell it later. The same applies to pirates; some might never buy the game if pirating wasn't an option.
>>316833009
>buy used copy
>it's just one copy that can move around legally
>pirate copy
>so did thousands of others
>no original sale, thousands have same copy of game
totally the same. Fuck off with your pirating justifications. I pirate music and movies because there's no point in paying for something that I can easily get for free, then I can use that money for more important things.
>>316833489
You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of economic theory and how the used game economy works
>>316833489
>>316833009
Used games are worse because it feeds the retailer while giving nothing to the developers. Which is worse than just copying a copy into existence without feeding either.
Namely because it feeds the middle-man into gaining more power than a middle-man should have.
American retailers have far too much damn power. Why in the world do you think you see so many "retailer exclusive" deals in America even though such practices are practically non-existent elsewhere?
Retailers in America has lots of power, as well as lots of power over the publishers and content creators themselves. That is a problem that is far worse than piracy.
>>316833489
uhhh, what? Reselling physical copies absolutely deprives the publisher a sale for every time it is resold. Shamestop thrives off of used games which are bought and then traded in to be bought again. Every successive sale is one the publisher does not see.
A pirate has a chance of buying the game if they like it but someone who buys a game used will never buy a new physical copy just to support the developer because in their eyes, they've already purchased it. This kind of regurgitated market of used games only serves to leech off the profits of the publisher.
If this isn't damaging, then why have companies been trying to eliminate second hand buying via DRM with the start of this console generation?
>>316833009
Used games are legal and there's nothing wrong with buying games on a flea market. GameStop just crosses the line sometimes though.
Piracy often works as demos for some people and doesn't even affect sales much. It's not legal, but it doesn't cause much harm either. Not as long as people have video games as a hobby and are willing to pay for them at least.
A lot of AAA titles sell millions on release and way less after a few weeks. Then the masses want to get rid of them for new money to buy the next game. So developers will probably not see a lot of money for these sales anyway. No wonder they go for dlc during the lifespan of a game.
The used game market is infinitely more harmful to the industry. At least with piracy you have to jump a bunch of hurdles to get the game working on your PC and a shit ton more if you wanna do it on console. On top of that you will not have access to patches and online content easily which devalues the game and slightly incentivize purchasing the full game.
With used games you get you pay a slightly lower amount to get 100% of the benifit of legit copies. The publisher received none of the money and the retailer makes and enormous profit. It has caused the season pass and online pass to come into existence which are cancers on the industry.
To make it worse, at least pirates know they are wrong. People who buy used games are either ignorant of their impact in the industry or delusional.
>>316835285
/thread
I pirate PC games on the regular. I also purchase at least a dozen games a year legitimately. I don't attempt to make more justifications for my behavior--it's "illegal" the same way jaywalking across a barren street or launching fireworks off in my backyard on New Year's Eve.
>>316838460
>At least with piracy you have to jump a bunch of hurdles to get the game working on your PC
>game releases
>wait maybe two days max for someone to crack it
>download the crack
>run game
Come on son, pirating is easy as fuck even with AAA games that actually try and take measures against it.
>>316836240
>i pirate music and movies because there's no point in paying for something that I can easily get for free
This is the same argument game pirate use. Just because you cherry pick your medium does not make you less of a pirate.
>>316833009
Why the hell should I care?
>>316834391
Piracy is usually done by people who wouldn't buy the game anyway. If they really wanted it and could get it for a decent price, and it incentivized them to get it like giving them physical goodies then people will buy the product.
But most products nowadays are like...spiting in the players face and saying "fuck you pay me" and "you'll fix this piece of shit you spent 80 dollars for because you're an autistic retard, aren't you bitch"
Piracy gets the word out and if it's a title that has a lot of play ability in it or is a "you have to experience this game" kind of deal then it will make money. If it's just shit, it will not make money.
>>316838460
People who buy used games are those who don't want to break the law (either for personal moral reasons, which are subjective, or because breaking the law would be bad for their career), and because they want to save money.
Both pirates and people who buy used do it because they want to save money. Buying used is just more accessible because it's legal.
If you argue that buying used should be made illegal though, then why should video games get such a special treatment? Does Ford make money when you buy a used truck from a previous owner? Why aren't used car sales being targeted as killing the auto industry?
Why is buying a used game any more harmful to the gaming industry than buying a used car is to the automotive industry? Or a used record to the music industry? Or a book to the publishing industry.
Every product imaginable has a second hand market and those industries manage just fine. Why should the games industry be considered a special little snowflake?
>>316839479
Not that guy. But there are indeed countries where you can't legally re-sell a car without being heavily taxed on the sale.
>>316833009
Being a greedy jew and asking too much.
>>316838854
my point is I'm not making dumb excuses for pirating like idiots on here do with games
>>316840264
>I pirate music and movies because there's no point in paying for something that I can easily get for free
you just did
>>316833009
>pirate
Zero intention of purchasing the title, likely computer savvy
>used
Willing to drop money on a title, much more likely a case then someone who knows how to pirate
Given how successful the Wii was, you can imagine which one encompasses a much larger group of people
>>316840474
because I like free shit
it's not like I'm on here saying I'm an informed consumer who tries before I buy and then "always" buys the games I like afterwards
or that I pirate because it's a shitty port, or pirate because it has microtransactions, or the other 100 excuses they use.
>>316833009
>All of these piratefags
>U-USED GAMES ARE BAD!
Used games have been around since games were sold in cartridges and diskettes, everything from Blockbuster to some mom & op video store had a bin of used games.
Internet piracy is unprecedented.
>>316833489
exactly this.
>>316833009
Used game is a one certain sale away from the publisher.
Pirated isn't.
>>316833009
Copied threads from Gaf Vs Copied threads from Reddit. Which hurts /v/ more?
>>316840908
used games are bad unless the game just isn't being sold in retail anymore
>I wouldn't have bought it anyway!
really isn't always the case with piracy
>>316833009
buying used game = kekolding the developers money
>>316840908
Regurgitating used games so close to the product's release is unprecedented, if anything.
If it wasn't, there wouldn't be an entire market that revolves around it.
>be piratefag
>the last game I bought was Dark Souls 2 for the PS3.
>the last computer game I bought was Banished a couple of years ago, and then Left 4 Dead in 2007(8?)
>Last music CD that I bought was two years ago
>Last time I saw a movie in theaters was in 2010
>Haven't watched a TV show on TV in years, a decade even.
Maybe 1/10th of all the digital media I own & have consumed over the years came from legitimate sources & that I paid for.
No excuses besides being a greedy piece of shit.
>>316841807
>>316842101
there's -always- been a used games market.
>>316842287
Used games super close to a game's release are pointless though, since they tend to be for pretty much the same price as buying new. Most used game sales are for games that have been out for years, to the point where it's hard to even find it new, and when it's been out for long enough that the game's success or failure has already been cemented.
the only time I buy games used is if they use those bullshit greatest hits cases on new copies
>>316842287
there's -always- been piracy
what's your point?
>>316842459
>Used games super close to a game's release are pointless though, since they tend to be for pretty much the same price as buying new
Not if they're still being purchased. Every sale is essentially striped away from the publisher. If this wasn't in some way lucrative, gamestop would cease to exist.
>>316842582
not on the scale and level of ease as it's done with the internet.
>>316842750
At the very least it still provides incentive to people to go into a physical store and see what else is available, and spend actual money. Not so much with piracy.
>>316843357
and the model of a used game market that gamestop follows has not previously existed either
so what?
>>316843493
>go in store
>buy game used
>never think to buy it brand new because you've already purchased it
>trade it in when you're done with it
>pirate game
>you genuinely like it
>buy it afterwards
ok
>>316843580
>what are video game rental stores?
>>316843856
>implying people do that at all
I have 6 friends who regularly pirate games and i cant remember the last time one of them bought the game. If they did it was like $2 on some shitty sale. Neither are good but at least used games put money back in the game industry to some degree. There is no excuse for pirating unless you cant afford it because your money is worthless
>>316843856
>>pirate game
>>you genuinely like it
>>don't buy it because you already have it
at least make SOME sense
>>316844034
something that pissed off companies
>/v/ is now anti-piracy
What the FUCK happened to this place???
>>316834391
>pirated Undertale
>liked it so much I bought it
>>316833009
>Piracy vs Used Games: which hurts game developers more?
Answer: Used games.
Thing about used games is that even if you move money from 1 game to another it's not 100% it's just a portion now.
This can create hysteria because publishers and developers can't tell the reason why you didn't spend 100% of your own income to buy their product.
Now in the case of piracy they will never see your ca$h regardless of existing or not. You are only at most a "potential" customer. Which means jack shit. Anyone can window shop. Yet we all know how many companies reacted to demos. They are nearly non-existent and they only use it for big established AAA games over new IPs.
Regardless what hurts developers more is their idiotic publishers that believe to know more and what's best while dictating over developers.
>>316836240
and then you complain when games dont get ported/made/ or get cancelled
It doesn't matter whether you buy new or used, the copies of the game were already bought and paid for by the retailer.
>used games
>hurting the industry
Am I on Neogaf with their constant corporate schills.
Used games can't hurt the industry because they are part of the industry.
>>316845065
>used games can't hurt because they already part of the industry
it's like you don't realize that used games don't apply to just retail.
>>316844938
wrong
a game bought used has no impact on sale numbers
from the eyes of the publisher, it has the same effect as a pirated copy; it's still a sale lost
Used games since the person goes into the game store with the intention to buy and actively be a consumer whilst pirates go in with the intention to get free shit.
>I have to pirate a game to see if I like it or not
What an absolute load of shit.
Back in my day there wasn't dick to know if a game was good or not. Magazines that came out once a month and only had so much space to review games with a couple of paragraphs, and most magazines were paid reviews.
Not like today's "muh ethics in video game journalism" paid reviews, but actual paid reviews. You had Nintendo Magazine reviewing Nintendo games and Playstation magazine reviewing Playstation games. They weren't going to be like "oh this game sucks don't give us your money, maybe go check out Doom on the PC instead"
These days you have a million websites, forums and message boards, "professionaly written" reviews, user-submitted reviews, video reviews, entire Let's Plays and Walkthroughs of the entire game from intro cinematic to end credits, demos, and even Steam Refunds.
There is literally no valid reason to pirate a game.
>>316833807
>>316836317
>>316836606
>>316837282
>Buy a ford
>Sell the ford
>Ford is hurt
This is how you sound like.
>>316833009
Piracy. A used game was at least a sale at some point.
>>316845405
>seeing if you like a game or not through piracy is not a valid reason to pirate because you used to not be able to
nice logic
>trusting reviews in the year 2015
>using a let's play to gauge whether you will like a game
I mean, maybe if you're playing heavy rain?
>demos
no longer exist
The best argument currently against piracy is steam's refund policy, which people actually make use of and is fairly effective.
>which hurts game developers more?
Neither hurts game developers at all. If your game is worth owning, people won't sell it away. If your game is good, a pirated copy of your game can encourage people to buy a legitimate copy.
Piracy and used sales are literally only a problem to you if you make shitty games that aren't worth owning in the first place.
No-one but corporate shills could ever be against used games. The right of resale is an essential consumer right currently missing properly from PCs and being eroded on consoles with 'consumable' DLC.
>>316845405
Play it at your friends, play it in the shop
>>316833009
Steal a car
Sale a use one
Invalid argument piracy is for niggers and I report them daily by seeding Trojans.
>>316846162
>corporate
Stoped reading
>>316846319
I didn't know cars could be digitally copied.
>>316845826
>seeing if you like a game or not through piracy is not a valid reason to pirate
It isn't.
>>trusting reviews in the year 2015
>using a let's play to gauge whether you will like a game
You can see the gameplay, and hear people's reactions to it. Everyone and their mother can and do review games, not just IGN and Kotaku.
>The best argument currently against piracy is steam's refund policy, which people actually make use of and is fairly effective.
How many people will buy a game, play it several times over for dozens of hours and THEN go "huh! I don't like this game that much!"
You can tell whether a game is good or not within the first few hours. There's no need to pirate and play the entire thing.
>>316846435
Hi. You're missing the point.
>p-piracy isn't stealing!
Okay sure, if anything it's more like counterfeiting. Negating the value of the authentic items. Happy?
Buying used games is more hurtful for the industry because who the fuck will buy a new copy after buying a used copy? Meanwhile, pirates who enjoy the game and want to support the developer will buy a new copy.
>>316833009
poor programming and low quality studios expecting to be paid high money.
If your shit is good and the price is compatible, expect to receive a good income.
Otherwise, be a Bethesda and do some poor practices like: review embargo, paid reviews, etc.
>>316846792
>if anything it's more like counterfeiting
no
>Negating the value of the authentic items.
piracy does not make items valueless, value is determined by the consumer, not the manufacturer/producer
>>316833489
Most pirates would not have bought the game regardless. A used game buyer would probably bought it new if a used one wasn't available.
I've gone to people's house and seen used game purchased at almost retail price. Never understood why someone puts up with dirty, sticker filled games for the sake of saving 5 or 10 dollars less.
most of the games sold used within launch period are either unplayed, a bad game, or the person just didnt like the game... in those cases the developers dont deserve to get paid for two sales.
if the game is good enough, then enough people will continue playing it/collect it to keep enough copies in rotation
>>316846659
>It isn't.
It is without a refund policy like I mentioned.
>You can see the gameplay, and hear people's reactions to it.
Which usually isn't good enough, if it was, watching would be suitable enough instead of buying at all.
>You can tell whether a game is good or not within the first few hours. There's no need to pirate and play the entire thing.
Are you illiterate? I said steam's refund policy is the currently best argument against "try it before you buy it" piracy.
>>316847046
It's EXACTLY like counterfeiting.
You're photocopying a dollar bill.
>>316847068
>A used game buyer would probably bought it new if a used one wasn't available.
which is irrelevant because they still bought it used and the end effect is the same, except the person buying used is supporting a market of regurgitated shit
>>316847221
You can trade in or sell pirated copies of games? Are you retarded?
used games = sale lost for the publisher
pirated games = sale lost for the publisher
>>316847145
>Which usually isn't good enough, if it was, watching would be suitable enough instead of buying at all.
It's more than good enough to see if a game is worthy of your time and money. Playing the game itself is a matter of getting enjoyment out of it and consuming it after you've made the informed decision to buy it.
>>316847221
no
a photocopy does not have the same traits as the original, unlike a digital copy which is indistinguishable from the original
>>316833009
Both is deeply immoral, but used games are slightly worse because people make money from their theft.
>>316847385
>You can trade in or sell pirated copies of games? Are you retarded?
I have, in fact, done this with PS2 games
>>316847398
>it's more than good enough
It's not. Unless the game is a non-game, you need to play it firsthand to genuinely see if you'll like it.
>Playing the game itself is a matter of getting enjoyment out of it and consuming it after you've made the informed decision to buy it.
Wow, I guess demos should be illegal then.
>>316846162
>The right of resale is an essential consumer right
Why should resale be an essential consumer right, but not copying and recording?
>>316847505
>deeply immoral.
No it's not. If you buy something, you have the right to re-sell it to someone else. To say that you don't is immoral. Why do you think video games should be treated special compared to anything else? Used bookstores exist. Used car sales exist. Why shouldn't used video games exist? It is not immoral to sell what you own, and if you bought it you own it. Moreover, you have the right to buy whatever is legally for sale, and that includes buying at a lower price.
>>316847385
>You can sell pirated copies of games
lol absolutely, stay mad.
with a used game, it's just the one copy of the game.
with pirated games, it's multiples if not exponential sales that are lost.
>>316848061
>it's multiples if not exponential sales that are lost.
>exponential sales
you just went full retard.
>>316847595
>I guess demos should be illegal then.
>>316846659
>You can tell whether a game is good or not within the first few hours. There's no need to pirate and play the entire thing.
>>316848061
except the effect of buying one game used and pirating one game is exactly the same from the developer/publisher's point-of-view
>>316848173
[citation needed]
and also, so what?
>>316845591
A disc either works or it doesnt. There is literally no logical reason to buy a new game over a used game other than wanting to support the dev. Buying pretty much used anything else comes with the cost of wear and damage.
>>316833009
>316833009
>>316833009
fucking neofaggot. you posted this shit on neofags.
>>316848283
>hurr citation for basic math
back to middle school with you faggot.
>>316847975
copying and recording for personal use is an essential consumer right, but copying and recording for the purpose of capitalizing on another's work (excluding fair use examples such as parody) is not
>>316848061
>exponential sales
no
>>316848130
>how do torrents work
>>316848030
You're not entitled to making profit from other peoples' work and if you buy a game used you're buying from someone who has already played it, which means that it's one lost sale for the developers. It's no better than piracy.
>>316833009
Where is the option for neither?
>>316848283
>[citation needed]
how is that not straightforward?
a used sale is a sale the publisher does not see, it's exactly the same with piracy
the effect is equally damaging to the publisher with either way you go
>>316848351
>basic math
No, I was actually reffering to the claim you made about how developers & publishers see used games being the same as piracy.
I was wondering where you pulled that steaming load of out from.
>>316848401
>exponential
>torrents
0/10
>>316848312
actually, buying used games supports the devs as well because without that income, game shops wouldn't have the capital to stock new games
>>316848529
>pirated game allows someone to play a game without paying the publisher
>used game allows someone to play a game without paying the publisher.
0/10 bait, back to middle school.
>>316846435
This right here is the level of stupidity the world has to deal with
You want it and go out your way to get it it has value.
You stole deal with it
>>316848405
It is objectively than piracy, because that person doesn't get to keep the game while also giving it away (if not selling it) to thousands of other people, which is what piracy is.
With used games, it's just the one physical copy being passed around a limited amount of times. With piracy it's one digital copy being multiplied and spread around and the sky's the limit.
>>316848637
>game shops wouldn't have the capital to stock new games
they need to sell new games in order to sell used ones? moreover, all you're supporting even if they sell new games is a regurgitated market of used games, because that retailer thrives off the profits of the used games and leeches from the publisher
>>316833009
What if I bought a used counterfeit copy from GameStop?
>>316848646
>>pirated game allows thousands of people to play a game without paying the publisher
>>used game allows someone to play a game without paying the publisher.
Do piratefags have no concept of the physical realm?
>>316848646
a used game has payed the publisher once already
>>316833009
neither.
>>316848646
>pirated game allows someone to play a game without paying the publisher
>used game allows someone to play a game without paying the publisher.
correct, aside from the initial new copy, the publisher gets nothing
>>316848926
hi, that argument has lready been refuted.
>>316848835
Children in Africa could've eaten those games!
>>316848725
>It is objectively than piracy, because that person doesn't get to keep the game while also giving it away
You can delete a pirated copy. Also, simply watching a movie illegally without paying is illegal even if you don't record it. Not to mention that not every kind of piracy also distributes the game to other users.
Also, a pirated copy can't be used for online in most cases. A used copy can. You're not just stealing single player gameplay but also multiplayer gameplay. You get a full product without paying the devs.
>>316848791
>they need to sell new games in order to sell used ones?
no, they need to sell used games to sell new ones since the profit margin is greater
>all you're supporting even if they sell new games is a regurgitated market of used games
good, because I can't buy SNES games new anymore
>that retailer thrives off the profits of the used games and leeches from the publisher
see point 1 above - by being able to sustain itself profitwise, the shop is able to continue to purchase new games from the publisher, thus supporting their business, not leeching from it
>>316849029
you didn't refute anything, used games support a regurgitated market in which they will be bought and traded repeatedly
>>316833009
The only thing that hurts developers are shitty publishers.
>>316848719
>>316849034
Speaking of the third-world, if you ever leave your basement and go to a third-world country's open-air market - everything that is sold on a disc there has been straight-up torrented (or downloaded from some Russian website) and burned onto a disc.
Same deal in the first world in the 90s, that one kid who had a CD-R drive an internet access would walk around the schoolyard selling games to other kids.
>>316833009
Piracy, but only in the sense that anti-piracy has pushed companies to such extremes that people stop buying their games because they don't want to deal with that shit.
A high number of pirates for a game suggests a high number of sales (Diablo, Warcraft II), or lack of availability (Steam selling games that otherwise wouldn't be sold in certain foreign countries).
The resale market isn't a problem for publishers. You always had people renting and trading games. The bigger problem is that publishers still haven't figured out how to take advantage of the second hand market themselves.
>>316833009
>not using strawpoll
back to reddit
>>316834391
>>316833489
good goys
>>316849280
>used games support a regurgitated market in which they will be bought and traded repeatedly
>this is somehow bad
>>316849143
>good, because I can't buy SNES games new anymore
buying games that are no longer sold new in retail is very different than buying used games that are still being sold
>by being able to sustain itself profitwise, the shop is able to continue to purchase new games from the publisher, thus supporting their business, not leeching from it
the store should be able to sustain itself from selling new copies alone, obviously
every successive used game sale is still one deprived from the publisher
>>316849076
>You can delete a pirated copy
So?
You can throw your used game in the trash too, I don't know what that has to do with anything.
>Also, a pirated copy can't be used for online in most cases. A used copy can.
No, those come with keys now
>>316849280
The whole point of this thread is arguing which one is worse. Piracy is, by numbers alone.
The only thing I care about is if I can still get a copy of the game ten or twenty years down the line which piracy and used sales allow me to do. If buying used Sega Saturn games off ebay makes me a horrible monster then so be it.
>>316833009
Are devs really butthurt about used games? I mean do car makers get butthurt about used cars or builders about used houses? Or Chinese sweatshops about used clothes or handmedowns.SSmh Tbh pham
>>316849721
>Are devs really butthurt about used games?
yes
>do car makers get butthurt about used cars
noentitled
>>316849721
Devs don't care it's publishers that view it as another obstacle to get more easy money that do. Hell most devs usually get paid upfront and rarely get royalty deals after the game is actually released.
>>316849492
>buying games that are no longer sold new in retail is very different than buying used games that are still being sold
no it is not since there is no magical "time limit" on resale of products.
Its called the market and if your game is any good, people will hold onto it.
What you're arguing for is the repeal of first sale doctrine, which is retarded on many levels.
>the store should be able to sustain itself from selling new copies alone, obviously
profit margins don't allow this, and only stores with a variety of products with wider margins (Target, Walmart) are able to support this business model.
Both are equally bad and wrong.
>1 person buys game
>make a pirate copy of it and uploads it
>people download it
is literally the same as
>1 person buys game
>beats up and sells it to someone else
>rinse and repeat
>>316850562
>equally
No, because the number of people who can download or torrent a single digital copy is virtually limitless.
1 person who sells a used game isn't going to magically multiply that one copy into thousands. It's always just the one copy.
>>316848405
Wrong. It's no difference from a car or book or anything else. Other people worked to build a car and sell it, but when I buy it, it's now my property. And I have the choice and right to sell that car to someone else when I no longer need to use it. Same with a book, a couch, or literally ANYTHING ELSE which requires some kind of work to be made, but which can be sold and then resold. So again, why do you think video games are some kind of special snowflake that deserve special treatment in this regard?
>>316833009
Weird that 70% of /v/ would get this wrong.
>>316850959
It may be potentially limitless, but you can also argue, that it promotes the game via streams and viral marketing. People are hyped for the game and cause they have the option of just pirating it, they know for sure they'll be able to get it somehow.
As I said before, publishers probably won't see a lot of sales 1-2 months after realease, save for christmas.
>>316850959
it's not like every time you buy a used game someone somewhere has the sudden urge to buy a new copy of that game.
>>316851462
>piracy promotes the game via streams and viral marketing
the fuck?
Legitimately bought & promotional copies don't?
>>316851690
>Legitimately bought & promotional copies don't?
>promotional copies
who does that anymore? lel
>>316833985
underrated post
>buy used game
>it instantly works with virtually no effort
>pirate game
>have to crack it and sometimes the crack is shoddy and doesn't work right and you have to experiment with several cracks because you want to pirate an obscure game with shit cracks.
>>316833009
Used games is to consoles as piracy is to PC.
Far more people use consoles and 100% of console users buy used games. Not nearly as high a percentage of PC users even pirate at all, and there are even less PC users as well.
The answer is obvious.
>All these who argue that you'll only sell 1 copy of a used game
Face it, most tripple A titles have half their units resold later. Niche games are a bit different.
>>316851690
Further promotes*
Happy now? Didn't say that any other copy doesn't. Just pointing out, that pirating doesn't affect sales negatively that much.
>>316851971
Sure it is, both practically do the same thing. Used pc games are fucking cheap anyways.
>>316850959
>No, because the number of people who can download or torrent a single digital copy is virtually limitless.
The number of people that can play the same physical copy is virtually limitless as well.
>>316851817
every youtuber that has more than 100K subs.
>>316852032
>Just pointing out, that pirating doesn't affect sales negatively that much.
No.... you said that pirated game can be used in the same way that legally-bought games can for youtube videos, which isn't an argument that defends piracy by any means.
There are over a million torrents in the US alone every month. That's money lost any which way you want to spin it.
Generally I would say piracy and historically for sure, but that's changing with DLC, expansions, and season passes. These are things you can and may HAVE to buy after a used purchase, but aren't available or come for free from piracy. Obviously now, it's a case by case basis for the game, but I still think things are in favor of piracy, though only a bit.
>>316852237
well no, because either it stops trading hands and ends up in someone's permanent collection, or since it's a physical object it inevitably gets damaged and stops working.
Not applicable to digital copies.
>>316852506
I also said, how these market the same game at the same time. And with more marketing come more sales. 1 pirated copy doesn't equal one sale less.
>>316851091
Intellectual property is not your property.
>>316849681
>You can throw your used game in the trash too
Then it's gone.
>>316852793
I'd like you to explain me, how even half of a million copies stop circulating. They won't, especially with the help of Amazon.
>>316852793
>well no, because either it stops trading hands and ends up in someone's permanent collection
by that logic I can say that pirated digital copies stop being downloaded
>>316842101
>so close to the product's release
If people are selling a game en masse just after launch, then perhaps the developer should have made a better game.
>>316852804
Your entire argument is based on the premise that youtubers play pirated games, which is a faulty premise at best.
>>316853009
they eventually do, there isn't 500K copies of Super Mario Bros being traded on Amazon.
>>316853241
what?
used games it just gives the money to the store
Piracy early on, but they even out in time. First year or so, it's only around $5 cheaper to get a game used than it is to get a new one, so a lot of people buy it new to get the physical disk/goodies/whatever, which are easily worth a few bucks. Later on, when the game's selling for $6 used, nobody's buying it new anymore, so you might as well pirate it instead of giving your money to Gamestop.
>>316856617
piracy gives money to no one.
At least used games keeps the economy going a bit.
>>316855550
>what?
What exactly you didn't understand?
You say that physical copies of games can stop being traded or they can break.
I say that digital pirated copies can stop being downloaded or torrent/links get deleted/expire/lack seeds.
>>316833009
>your business relies on people either burning their youth away or stupid casuals who don't know how to pirate a game anyway
>already exploit the actual makers to the highest degree
>rely on jewish schemes like reboots and viral marketing
>invent preorders and DLCs which are pure satanic evil
>invent bullshit platforms that spy on you and don't allow you to play without internet
>even with all that you're not even selling a product, what we're buying is only a premission to play
>surprised when people opt out
>boohoo piracy is hurting me
>all those sales I would totally have if not for those pirates
How about not being literal demons of monetary evil?
You either buy a game or you dont. It doesnt work both ways. If you arent interested you dont buy it, end of story. Of course pirating is easy as fuck but dont try and validate piracy, we all know youre just some filthy misering jew. At least admot to that.
Wow there are a lot of broke ass motherfucker pirate defenders in this thread.
Fuck you. YOU are the cancer that is killing vidya. STOP being a cheap ass motherfucker and PAY FOR THE GAMES YOU LIKE.
>>316856827
So if torrent sites started charging visitors per each download it would be okay because economy keeps going.
Do you people even read what you are writing?
>>316857464
>anyone killing vidya
>vidya market getting more and more profits every year with no sign of it ending soon
>vidya market infinitely more profitable now than it used to be 15 years ago when piracy wasn't as user-friendly and accessible as it is now
games make millions of fucking dollars these days. obviously they're not really being hurt by either practice.
>>316857306
you can always re-upload and re-seed and turn one copy into 10, 20, 50, 1000, 100000000 copies.
Can't do that with physical copies, you can't turn one into several.
>>316857612
not the same thing, see my reply above. Used games aren't copies of one unit, they're the original units at least.
>>316858084
>>316858104
>ALL game devs and publishers are swimming in money, and ALL musicians are platinum-selling multi-millionaires as well
pirate-fags' logic
>>316858493
>ALL game devs and publishers are swimming in money, and ALL musicians are platinum-selling multi-millionaires as well
Nowhere in my post I even remotely implied that.
>pirate-fags' logic
Ad hominem since you can't tell if I pirate games or not based on a single post stating facts. WHich in turns lead me to believe you ran out of anything worth saying.
It's tough to say whether either relationship is entirely harmful.
Used games circulate money around the gaming consumer base, which in turn finds its way to new copies of games sooner or later.
On the flip side, a lot of people treat piracy as a "try before you buy"-type thing. It's well established that most big money spenders are also pirates.
Obviously, devs would prefer it if absolutely everyone who played bought a new copy of the game, and that's the only thing that they want to see, but at $60 per game + DLC, that's just not viable. If you're a casual, you're not willing to pump out $1k+ per year on videogames. If you're not a casual, you're already spending $1k+ per year on games, even when you don't buy all of them at full price. Gaming is an expensive hobby, and the price has to be cut somewhere.
>>316858084
>Big AAA games/developers are the ONLY games/developers
This is the world you are creating.
Soon there will be NO NICHE GAMES LEFT ON THE MARKET.
And it will be YOUR FAULT.
>>316859023
You were in the same vein as
>>316858104
>games make millions of fucking dollars these days. obviously they're not really being hurt by either practice.
>>316859074
>On the flip side, a lot of people treat piracy as a "try before you buy"-type thing. It's well established that most big money spenders are also pirates.
Is there actually any proof of that?
>>316858235
>you can always re-upload and re-seed and turn one copy into 10, 20, 50, 1000, 100000000 copies.
How does that effect a sale though? If you're pirating something because you couldn't afford it, you wouldn't have bought it in the first place so it doesn't make a difference how many times you can copy and share it.
>>316858235
>you can always re-upload and re-seed and turn one copy into 10, 20, 50, 1000, 100000000 copies
You can always sell a used game and turn it into a single payed game that was played by gorillions of people.
It's the same principle.
>not the same thing
>used games aren't copies of one unit, they're the original units at least
That has nothing to do with your previous post. Your argument was
>piracy gives money to no one.
>At least used games keeps the economy going a bit
And I gave an alternative where piracy gives money to someone and keeps the money moving around.
Seriously, just doublecheck whatever retarded statement you are going to make before actually making it.
>>316833009
Every time a used game is traded in, it increases the supply side of the market. It further damages company profits by competing with the "new" product at a lower price. There is no risk & it's considered to be the buyers right to resell it. Some multiplayer games require retail codes for online play to circumvent this, but for the most part it's just a heavy dicking for the publishers.
Pirated games have an actual risk associated with the reward & it's looked down on. They're also locked out of DLC until a new release comes along, and will basically never get a shot at multiplayer.
If you buy a used game or pirate a game your money never makes it back to the publisher or developer & it isn't counted as a sale. For all intents & purposes you're disconnected from the market & do not matter to anybody except the retailer handling trades or the Chinaman searching for CC#s. This is why CoD: Futurer Warfare & AssCeed: XXX will be number one sellers while quality new ips are shit on.
tldr; Both are for faggots.
>>316859624
You can always wait until you have the money to buy it.
That's what human beings did, prior to like 2003.
>>316859643
>You can always sell a used game and turn it into a single payed game that was played by gorillions of people.
Please explain that statement.
>>used games aren't copies of one unit, they're the original units at least
>That has nothing to do with your previous post
it has everything to do with this thread, arguing which is worse for the gaming industry: piracy or used games.
one unit being passed around a half-dozen times is nowhere near as bad as one unit being copied and multiplied thousands and thousands of time.
That's just common sense.
>And I gave an alternative where piracy gives money to someone and keeps the money moving around.
You're talking about "what if"s and making a bad situation already worse. I'm talking about what's real.
>>316860294
>You can always wait until you have the money to buy it.
That doesn't change the argument. The number of times you can make a digital copy has no effect on the sale itself if you weren't going to purchase the game in the first place. It is irrelevant.
>>316859484
Another retarded poster lacking any form of reading comprehension.
Where exactly in my post I even REMOTELY imply that AAA games/devs are the only games/devs out there?
>>316859497
>You were in the same vein as
The only thing in a similar vein is the fact that my post and that other post made a reference to money. Mine was a general statement about the videogame market being far from dead (as a response to a post) while the other post you are referring to made a shitty attempt at justifying piracy based on how much money companies make.
>>316860616
You seem to think that ALL developers are doing amazing and ALL games are raking in big money.
No, that's not the case. As with everything else in this world, only the big names are raking in the money. Everything else is failing hard because faggots like you won't pay for the games you play.
I'm willing to bet at least 75% of the pirates in this thread actually pay for the big-name releases like Fallout 4, but pirate everything else. Prove me wrong, bitchass.
>>316860491
>if you weren't going to purchase the game in the first place
That's just a post-hoc justification.
I wasn't going to pay money for these sneakers, so I'm entitled to stealing them.
Pirates may not always be interested in buying the game and thus do not cost the developer any money
Used games are being bought but no money is going to the publisher or the developer, only the retailer
Used games are worse for the industry
>>316861019
>That's just a post-hoc justification.
unless you're too poor to afford it or the game is shit
>>316861180
No. Used games still represent a single sale going to a single person, at the end of the day. Pirated games represent a single sale going to potentially millions of people. It's not even close. Pirating is far worse.
>>316861180
>Used games are being bought but no money is going to the publisher or the developer, only the retailer
That doesn't "cost the developer any money" either.
Pirated games are worse because of the sheer amount and scale of piracy.
>>316860294
>Please explain that statement.
I don't know what is there to explain.
You are saying that because a digital copy can be reuploaded after it gets taken down it is bad.
I'm saying that a physical game can permanently be in the 'buy-play-sell' cycle so it is bad as well.
>it has everything to do with this thread
Then your post was misleading, had nothing to do with the thread or both.
Your justification in that post was that at least one of the two possibilities made economy move thus making the other one worse. I just showed you that both possibilities keep the economy moving thus making both possibilities equally as bad.
>You're talking about "what if"s and making a bad situation already worse.
The one making situations already worse here is you, if anything.
The entire premise of your arguments in a nutshell is that physical used games magically stop being sold at some point while digital copies remain being downloaded, reuploaded and seeded for all eternity.
>>316861327
it doesn't matter who you are or what the game is like. If you get it without paying for it (birthday presents aside), your circumstances and excuses don't matter. It's still ethically stealing.
>>316861331
>Pirated games represent a single sale going to potentially millions of people.
It doesn't matter how many people the pirated copy goes to if they don't give a shit about the game in the first place. If I gave pirated a copy of a game to my grandmother and she played it for 10 minutes, is it a lost sale? no
"I wouldn't have bought it anyway" means "I wouldn't have bought it anyway"
>>316861538
>a physical game can permanently be
I don't think you know how the physical world works.
>>316857464
>PAY FOR THE GAMES YOU LIKE
Oh, but I do!
That's why I'm a pirate.
>>316861735
That doesn't give you the ethical or moral right to not pay for a good.
If you don't want it, don't get it.
>>316861612
>It's still ethically stealing.
"stealing" or not, there is no change. There is no difference to the publisher between before and after you pirated their game if you were never going to buy it.
>>316862072
This isn't about morals or ethics, this is about the damages the publisher incurs.
>>316862158
"I wasn't going to buy it anyway" is such a shit fucking excuse. If piracy was not an option, then you most definitely WOULD have bought it, and you know it.
>>316862271
>If piracy was not an option, then you most definitely WOULD have bought it, and you know it.
Or you WOULDN'T have, and you know it.
Used games obviously since someone was willing to pay for the game in the first place.
>I can steal as long as I tell myself I wasn't going to pay for it
huh?
>>316862509
>piracy
>stealing
I recently purchased Grandia II for the PC, even though I've barely played it since.
Why?
Simply put, because I couldn't find a torrent for it. I had the money and decided to buy it instead. I'm willing to bet there are PLENTY of people like myself who would pay for games if piracy was not an option. Ergo, Piracy is shit.
>>316862158
>>316862260
There is also no difference or "damages" to the publisher between before and after you buy it second hand
>>316862484
Intent or will doesn't matter, it's about whether they get the money or not. Piracy enables far more people to not spend their money than used games.
>>316860789
>You seem to think that ALL developers are doing amazing and ALL games are raking in big money.
I actually think you are projecting now. I never mentioned developers nor publishers in my initial post. I was talking about the general status of the market.
>only the big names are raking in the money
Seems like your only flaw is not that you can't comprehend what you are reading, but that you are also misinformed. If you think indie developers are not profiting you are pretty deluded.
And if anything, the amount of indie devs we have now is proof of how well the videogame market is doing.
>I'm willing to bet at least 75% of the pirates in this thread actually pay for the big-name releases like Fallout 4, but pirate everything else.
>Prove me wrong, bitchass.
I don't have to prove you wrong about something that I'm not discussing nor I care about.
>faggots like you won't pay for the games you play
You are still under the assumption that I'm a pirate or a piracy apologist which is wrong. And even if it was the case that doesn't invalidate any of the points I made so far so do yourself a favor and stop your petty attacks because they have no effect whatsoever.
>>316862590
>piracy
>not stealing
>>316862763
>There is also no difference or "damages" to the publisher between before and after you buy it second hand
yes there is, the fact that you were willing to pay for the game means a shitty middle man gets the profits and the publisher does not
that is a real potential sale lost, especially if they got the game used close to its release for nearly full price
>>316863074
For there to be a used games market, there needs to be used games, which means that there needs to be games sold.
For piracy, you need just one download link or seed for it to spread like wildfire and have thousands & thousands of people tell themselves "oh well I wasn't going to buy it anyways"
NO ONE wastes their time & bandwidth to download a game that they know or think is going to suck and wouldn't pay money for. Unless they're retarded.
>>316863594
>NO ONE wastes their time & bandwidth to download a game that they know or think is going to suck and wouldn't pay money for.
yes they do since it costs them nothing and may not know if it's shit or not
>>316861940
>no argument
>address something of little relevance to the point being made and that doesn't even qualify as a rebuttal
The irony is that the CD/DVD/BR containing the official game is no different than the HD containing the digital pirated copy. Both decay.
Okay so there are two things that come to mind for me related to this discussion.
First is competition. Used games are generally cheaper, but they are still a legitimate part of the gaming market. If you are concerned about used games, then you simply have to accept them as your competition and lower prices to make your new games more appealing. Piracy is not competition because you can't compete with free.
Second, in order to decide which is more harmful, I'd prefer to take my cues from the developers themselves rather than random people on 4chan. Piracy is the reason why DRM exists. This is literally the entire basis for platforms like Steam. On the other hand, little has been done to combat the used game market. I'll leave the rest up to your imagination.
>>316863832
you can back up digital copies of anything, transfer them to new hard drives indefinitely.
You can't back up physical copies, that's why people collect & preserve them.
>>316862868
Piracy is not stealing, though. Not legally speaking.
>>316833009
I'd say piracy.
A used game was at one point a sale, and someone's still playing their game and possibly spreading it via word of mouth.
With piracy it's exactly the same except there wasn't an initial sale.
>>316863806
>oh boy let me waste my time downloading this game that got shit reviews, and then waste more of time playing it for 40 hours.
said no one ever.
the whole point of piracy is to get things that you want, for free.
Be honest at least.
>>316864038
it's not the opposite of it either.
>>316833489
>>316834126
You're fucking retard, holy shit take an economics course.
>>316833009
This is difficult to answer without some decent data, and due to the nature of piracy (and used games to an extent), useful data is scarce.
However, from an intuitive standpoint, I'd say piracy. With piracy, one legitimate purchase can result in thousands of users who paid the developer nothing, whereas with used games one legitimate purchase results in a few users (one or two in typical cases) who paid the developer nothing.
>>316864145
>13 dollars a person at a theater to see a shitty movie I'm not really interested in
not happening
>same experience showing the same shitty movie at the same theater for free
sure why not?
>>316864023
>you can back up digital copies of anything, transfer them to new hard drives indefinitely.
>you can't back up physical copies, that's why people collect & preserve them.
Physical copies are literally digital copies in physical format. As long as the data exists the physical format can be redone therefor physical copies are potentially permanent just like piracy digital copies are potentially permanent.
>>316833009
only in our cyberpunk dystopia could we propose that consumers reselling their own fucking purchases is "hurtful" to the original vendor
>>316864258
>take an economics course
I'm not him, but this is not an argument.
Even economics is not an exact science. You can't just pull out cookie-cutter arguments or rules written in stone and apply them to every situation. This post was clearly written by someone who has taken one economics course and thinks he's an expert.
>>316847068
>Most pirates would not have bought the game regardless
This is bullshit.
I would have paid money for at least 60% of the games I've pirated if piracy was not an option. I doubt I'm atypical in that.
>>316833009
The only time I'll support Piracy is when Companies like EA try to make the game cost more than the RRP of 59.99
>>316833009
who cares?
fuck these people
inb4
> muh ethics
>>316864915
So explain why physical copies of games like Stadium Events, Nintendo Campus Challenge and Nintendo World Championships are worth tens of thousands of dollars each - while the ROMs are absolutely free.
>>316834391
At least 1/4 of my Steam library was pirated before bought.
>>316865943
99% of everything I ever pirated just remained as is, I never went out of my way to buy it legitimately.
Why should I? I already have it.
>>316866132
Okay
>>316865572
I don't know those games but I assume Nintendo stopped commercializing them in their physical form making the physical games already all over the world a collectible of sorts.
Your point being?
If Nintendo suddenly started commercializing the games again, the old games would still be as expensive. The value of those cartridges has nothing to do with anything.
Pirates don't usually buy games anyway, but at least we don't pat ourselves on the ass for buying a copy that in no way gives the developers money
>>316852948
The cartridge it's on is my property, and I still hvae the right to sell it. Deal with it.
Used, definitely. If you pirate a game, there's a chance the pirate will like the game and then later buy it. With used games, they're definitely not going to buy the game a second time.
Most pirates were never going to buy their games anyway.
I'd rather pirate a game than give someone like Jewstop my money.
Piracy is always the greatest cancer.
A used game means that the game at least sold once.
Piracy on the other hand sees no copies being purchased since they are being illegally copied.
Of course people who steal games via piracy will never admit it so they'll try to say used games are a jewish practice to deflect.
>>316868062
How do you think people get the game in the first place in order to allow piracy?
>>316868062
>Piracy on the other hand sees no copies being purchased
Someone needs to buy a game before making a digital copy of it for pirates to download unless a game leaks before the release date, I guess.
>>316866723
>Your point being?
physical goods become rare over time and digital ones do not, certainly not on the same scale
>>316868345
>>316868308
Used game is 1 for 1.
Piracy is 1 to infinity.
Also a vast majority of the time the copy used to for piracy is one of the review or promotional copies. Nice try though thieves.
>>316868308
>>316868345
with used games, it's one sold unit being reused a few times at most.
with piracy, it's one sold unit being turned into thousands thousands of digital units.
>>316867658
>there's a chance the pirate will like the game and then later buy it
>Most pirates were never going to buy their games anyway.
Why are you arguing against yourself?
I pirate and buy used
>>316868892
You can pass along used copies indefinately.
>>316869107
No you can't, because either they physically break down & deteriorate or they're kept in someone's permanent collection.
>>316833009
nobody cares about game developers
>>316868692
>physical goods become rare over time and digital ones do not
And this makes re-selling used games better than piracy how, exactly?
>>316869564
by reinforcing the fact that you are purchasing a physical item that has intrinsic worth?
>>316834391
Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. I've pirated games and bought them for retail price, because I really liked the game and wanted to make sure someone knew it.
>>316850102
>if you are poor it is pirating and okay
>if you are rich you are a thieving, immoral, selfish fuck who cares for naught but themselves
How about this, if you are poor save up cash and find more methods of income rather than trying to get away with what you think are harmful actions if being poor were not an factor?
Literal nigger logic.
>>316869863
Let me rephrase it:
How is purchasing a physical game that is not going to benefit the creator of said game better than piracy?
I'm not for making used games illegal, but car companies make profit off of repairing cars and selling parts so other people can repair their cars. There is no equivalent in gaming. They don't charge for patches, nor is there anyone to make sure the game actually works on your machine.
>>316870835
Because there aren't thousands of other people simultaneously sharing that physical game, like with piracy.
I only buy a game brand new and off the shelf if it's made by Nintendo. Everything else I buy used or I pirate it. I also buy indie games if I really like them, I don't play indie games that much though because they're mostly shit.
>>316833489
Dev and pulisher don't get anything from resales and used games. Used sales are more commen than pirtaes so used sells hurt more.
>>316870959
well, there are independent companies that do repair game consoles.
I don't think you were going for that with your analogy though.
Used games is just as bad as piracy.
There's a reason why Japan banned the sale of used games.
Also
> Saving a total of 5 dollars on that new game that you're going to end up paying on taxes anyways.
Fucking retarded.
>>316833009
Games are shit these days. I dont want to pay for anything. Thats my bias.
When someone buys a used game, it implies they want the game and are idiotic enough to spend money on this trash. Used games take away from sales in that way, at least (and im being generous) 1 in 5 people would buy a game new if they couldnt access it in used form. Thats profit taken away from the company.
Piracy on the other hand is what it is. People are gonna do it, I dont know the numbers (im sure it goes up every year) but its just something developers have to accept. People that pirate arent inherently going to buy a game they want, because they arent showing incentive to spend any money whatsoever on the game, they are only taking whats free.
So I guess used games hurt the industry more? It at the least keeps money in the economy, which is good for everyone overall. Moral of the story: New games are shit anyway who cares.
>>316871326
>Used sales are more commen than pirtaes
?
besides with piracy it's one copy being shared thousands of times, with used games it's 1 to 1.
Games being resellable at least adds value to them. Theoretically some people will buy games for a higher price knowing they can make some of it back reselling it later. I doubt reselling games is a net positive for the industry though unless these publishers are just spewing BS when they are trying to make us come up with games that discourage reselling.Okay nevermind they spew BS all the fucking time.
Piracy also can sometimes have some benefit where people give a game they wouldn't have bought a try and decide they like it and buy it, but I'm more skeptical that is very common.
>>316871025
See, this is exactly what is wrong with moralists defending used games.
When you are buying a used game, you are helping the developer exactly as much as a piratefag downloading a torrent.
The fact that someone else paid full price for the game changes nothing, you are still giving zero benefit to the developer. The fact that thousands of pirates are getting the game for from a single copy changes nothing, because you are giving as much profit to the dev as those pirates.
The act of buying a used game is LITERALLY as negative as the act of pirating a game.
Used game sales is actually beating piracy...
you're all retards if you actually think that, I'm leaving this board for at least a month now, because frankly, I'm embarrassed to be on it now.
>>316871931
>1 to 1
If you have a bias at least try to not be so fucking obvious.
>All those pirates voting for Used Games
lmao the delusion is real xD
>>316872495
The answer should really come down to statistics on where the most sales are lost. However, that data cannot exist and not many people here will have any kind of access to that speculation.
>>316872369
>The fact that thousands of pirates are getting the game for from a single copy changes nothing, because you are giving as much profit to the dev as those pirates.
>ignoring the bigger picture
>>316872506
What do you mean?
it's one copy being passed from one person to another.
With piracy it's one copy being multiplied and passed on to thousands of people
