How can New Vegas consider an unobtainable ending from Fallout 1 canon?
No one has played Fallout 1?
Because they can
For the same reason that Van Buren is semi-canon.
Because cool ideas and stories trump being hamstrung creatively by irrelevant stuff.
>>316486091
Because Followers are the best.
>>316486384
Fair enough.
>>316486531
>want to help everyone
>can't help everyone
>try anyway
>fail
The worst kind of do gooder
Followers make for a good worldbuilding element.
Why do people criticize Fallout 4 for being an unfinished buggy mess and praise Fallout 1 even though it is an unfinished buggy mess?
>>316486749
You very well described them from NV but the Followers under Nicole were the best kind. They still wanted to help people by sharing knowledge but went to war secretly with the Children of the Cathedral for feigning
philanthropy.
>>316486531
Yeah despite that they were essentially behind all the trouble in NV
>>316487215
They can't really be held responsible for Caesar's actions, can they?
>>316487215
Might as well blame the Mormons too
>>316486923
People who shit on Fallout 4 haven't actually played any Fallouts other than Fallout 3 and New Vegas. Children.
>>316488047
They pretend they've played them all though because popular gaming websites tell them they were good games and that they should like them and so they parrot what older people say to try and fit in and sound knowledgeable and experienced.
>>316486923
How is Fallout 1 an unfinished buddy mess?
Not even sure this is bait, I'm just interested in this opinion right now
>>316488581
Look at any Fallout 1 thread and its full of people telling you to apply fan made patches and mods to fix things or deal with the problems of the vanilla game.
Things such as:
>an unobtainable ending
>missing interactions with objects
>quests that get added to your Pipboy but can be complete due to bugs or cut content
>bugged dialogue that traps you in an endless cycle
>Straight up Dialogue errors where NPCs don't say anything or "Error"
>scripting errors that occur if certain conditions on met before others
Don't get me wrong, its still a fun game, but it can be a pain in the ass if you play vanilla, and I'm a purist so its the only way I play games.
Because it actually adds shit to the world
>>316488047
I've played 1, 2 and a bit of NV, and 4 is mediocre.
>>316488581
You should go to the Fallout wiki sometime and look up the quests that have dead ends because they ran out of time to finish them and had to ship the game.
It's not that buggy, but it's definitely unfinished
Fallout should've died when Van Buren died.
>>316490312
I agree, Wasteland 2 is more of a Fallout 3 than Fallout 3.
>>316490312
But then we would never get New Vegas, which is the most well-rounded entry in the series. More content than 2, better median quality than 2, almost as good setting consistency-wise as 1.
>>316490312
New Vegas was a good conclusion for the series
>>316490472
How is Obsidian so shit yet so based at the same time?
>>316490472
>More content than 2
Supposed to be "more than 1" since 1 is a pretty small game, though now I'm not sure which game has more stuff - FNV with DLCs or 2?
>>316490702
By not being shit?
>>316490472
>>316490621
New Vegas can't change how much of a turd Fallout 3 is.
>>316490770
Just don't play 3? Who cares?
Are you niggers prepared for the turdball named Fallout 5 bethesda is going to shit out?
>>316491131
7 years from now?
>>316490892
The problem is 3 being a turd and being the first fallout game for a lot of people is that people expect what 3 does to be the norm and new Vegas to be the weird one.
A lot of casual players expect level scaling and railroad quest lines in rpgs now. Its sad.
>>316491750
But Oblivion existed. And Mass Effect, I guess? I didn't play those, I understand they were pretty casual too. I'm happy we got such a good game out of this mess.
>>316486923
they praise fallout 1 for different reasons. it had a more coherent setting, RPG mechanics that actually mattered, better dialogue and story telling. every PC game is an unfinished buggy mess
who do I align with in new vegas?
>>316492415
whoever you want, though Legion route is pretty gutted content wise due to time constraints.
>>316492578
I am trying to do a good run and I went with Mr House first but he made me kill the Brotherhood so I want to redo it.
>>316492957
>so I want to redo it
Redo? You can switch allegiance. In fact, it was intended by designers. As Sawyer said, it's more fun when the player chooses a side because it seems appealing initially but then has to rethink their allegiance.
>>316489646
I played the games without any patches this week and I didn't run into any issues, are you talking about 1.2 thought? I thought that was an official patch.
>>316493160
I had to reload it because I did mission already just to see if I could somehow speech my way like I have done 90% of the time and not kill anyone.
>>316492957
Side with the robot aka yourself.
>Load up NV again
>Install a ton of mods that look cool
>CTD on title screen
>Sort through 200 mods to find the problem
>Finally get game started
>Missing meshes everywhere
>People who aren't missing their bodies altogether look like some kind of Frankenstein stitched together from 4 different bodies
>CTD whenever I open the pip-boy
I can't do anything right.
>>316493343
Games as in plural?
If you are playing the games in a week you are not playing them to the extent that I did. I'm just talking about Fallout 1 right now too.
>>316494009
It's all in the install order, if it's that fucked I'd start again. Some mods override textures from other mods, it's better to have a plan of action when using that many mods.
>>316494689
LOOT didn't help at all.
I think I'm gonna have to start over and be more selective.
>>316492957
>good run
>objects to killing Brotherhood of Shitlords
What?
>>316488047
sure, keep telling yourself that
>>316495339
they didn't seem that bad.
>>316495695
They're only decent if you keep the old leader in charge, if you oust him in favor of the new more militaristic paladin you're forced to kill them even in the NCR route.
>>316495948
I knew I should have just ignored that idiot.
>>316492415
NCR if your approach is "shitty solution, but WORKING solution"
House if you like idea of technocratic overlord ruling over everyone from his ivory tower
Legion of you're edgelord, like acting badass, or just want to fuck everyone up for the lulz
Indie, if you don't like any above, or want Mojave to stay a mess it is now
>>316486091
Different devs,
different writers,
different
fucking
everything.
>>316492957
>he made me kill the Brotherhood so I want to redo it.
Why? The Brotherhood is pretty much done, they have no place in the world.
>>316496548
Yeah, funny enough NV has some of those moments where your expectations are subverted
>hey usually taking the longer route in quests leads to better rewards right?
>nope you end up putting a fuckhead in charge and now you'll kill them in most routes
>Dead Money: hey there's a dialogue option with a skill check in a conversation with an egomaniacal companion, maybe I should answer it for that extra xp
>great now you pissed him off and he'll betray you and you'll be forced to kill him
>Dead Money:I usually read everything on PCs even if I'm not paying much attention to what it says
>oh wait I accidentally triggered the vault to close and got a bad end.
These are the only 3 that I can think of but I was pleasantly surprised to see this happening in a modern wrpg.
WHO ELSE BASED MR.HOUSE SIDE HERE
>>316497284
If only more games didn't pander so heavily to "gamer antics" that we'd get trained out of them and actually try to roleplay
>>316496846
By that logic, the ghouls should inherit the wasteland?
>>316497624
First I did House. Then Independent. Then NCR. Then stupid shitty Legion shitters.
>>316497752
Oh remembered one more, if you get the kings and the NCR to make up House will want you to kill the Kings, but if you let them have their war House will think the Kings will be useful since they make Freeside anti-NCR.
>>316486749
The fuck did you say?
>>316498046
I did that too....fuck this I am reloading the save and going independentthe robot doesnt tell me to kill them right?
>>316498337
The kings are spared if you go NCR since they're on friendly terms now. It depends on the route.
>>316497752
In the original fallout, siding with Gizmo was actually intended to lead to a good ending for junktown, while the Sheriff ended up corrupting the place. Then some guy said NO, and made them switch it so that the seemingly good deed actually led to a good ending.
>>316497873
What?
Factions like the NCR, Legion, etc. are actually rebuilding civilization while the BOS just sit in their bunkers jerking off their Laser Rifles because they got shit on and have an outdated purpose/ideology. Preserving technology to prevent another Great War from happening in itself is good but their actual work doesn't benefit anyone
>>316498337
Robot doesn't kill themBut he prob kills you if you don't fuck off after he 'upgrades'
>>316498776
>But he prob kills you if you don't fuck off after he 'upgrades'
Debunked by Sawyer.
>>316498521
not exactly corrupting. Killian is no-nonsense sheriff (like Meyers in NV), that doesn't take kindly outsiders shitting up his place, and that gives Junktown bad fame, enough for people to avoid it.
Note how his men warn you to put away weapon if you have it equipped, and won't let you enter town during nighttime.
>>316498875
Elaborate?
>>316499938
There's a line that Yes-Man says in his ending, something about installing new software upgrades to be less "assertive".
Some people interpreted it as RISE OF THE MACHINES type of thing.
Sawyer said on twitter (or formspring? Damn, that site died and so much of Sawyer's answers went with it) it wasn't supposed to be anything like that.
>>316498681
It's funny how BoS still thinks their mission to hoard advanced technology is still valid, when half of prospectors carry laser pistols, NCR parades in reverse-engineered Power Armors, Van Graffs set up shop full of lasers and plasmas in Freeside, and Gun Runners even make NEW energy weapons.
>>316500246
NCR PAs are not real PAs and they were looted from BoS IIRC. NCR do have vertibirds, though.
>>316500217
Ah, he just sounded so damn sinister during that dialogue, and didn't provide me with any real sense that my character would have any degree of control over the fate of NV after the main events, so felt frustrated and cheated with the YES man ending, the first and only ending I got with NV.
So I made a strong beautiful black womyn as my first PC character (first playthough was on 360) and I was gonna go legion, but somebody told me that would screw me out of a lot of the legion content as a female, is that true? should I just be a stereotype and join the NCR with her, and then roll up a legate?
>>316500352
yep, that's what I mean by reverse-engineered. >"BoS won't share tech? Whatever, we gut it out, and replace parts we can't replicate with ones we can." I'm pretty sure vertibirds are also ones captured from Enclave, they may even restored ones they shot down.
Other interesting thing is that NCR PA is hardly better than Ranger armor. Maybe even worse, due to "powering" not beign functional for most part. Everything becomes clear when Hanlon explains that Oliver has hard-on on them.
>>316500770
arena master will refuse to let woman fight in "his" arena, but I think it's the only thing not allowed
>>316500821
The higher-ups of the NCR are either retarded fucking figureheads or sinister businessmen only caring about profit. You meet so much great pro-NCR characters but their powers are just fucking rotten.
>>316486923
Consider this:
Fallout 4 was made with big budget, big team and they had 4 fucking years to make the game. They had the engine already, all the game needed was the script and mechanical updates, really.
Fallout 1 was made from scratch in 1-2 years tops. And they had to make up everything - universe, ideas, mechanics from almost nothing using. While Black Isle borrowed stuff from Wasteland, most of the setting and gameplay is unique.
Bethesda just took everything, fucked up RPG elements, made it into Simshooter and it just works.
Don't you hate Terminator: Genisys? Because that's the same thing, really.
>>316500821
>>316500352
wait wait wait, there's NCR power armour in NV? I don't think I ever saw that. goddamn I have so much to do in this game still, I only ever did independent and House runs on vanilla xbox.
does the restored content mods add much for the legion?
>>316501002
sounds familiar, doesn't it?
>>316501247
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/NCR_salvaged_power_armor
>>316501237
Larger teams doesn't equal easier to create alot of content quicker, without flaws. Alot more bureaucracy can get in the way, along with more factors I'm sure
>>316489646
>an unobtainable ending
Literally one slide out of dozens. Nice hyperbole though, talking like you can't finish the game.
>>316486923
Fallout 1 was the first in its franchise. Fallout 4 is the fifth in its franchise. Fallout 1 used an original engine and RPG system, Fallout 4 uses a decade old engine that Bethesda had developed four previous titles with and features (aside from the house building) incredibly striped down versions of old systems.
>>316492957
>implying you can ever make an evil run
You can slice every saint in the Vegas and you still become the second coming of Jesus. Karma system is that broke.
>>316501454
This. You also have more people doing things independantly of eachother, which means it's more difficult to co-ordinate the work to actually get a coherent thing.
I'm pretty sure that's how they accidentally ended up retconning the origin of Jet in FO4 as well, some fuck that never played FO2 just wrote those terminal messages/designed that poster without someone with actual knowledge of the lore discovering them before it was too late to scrap them.
>>316501454
Well, then here's the answer:
Fallout was made by a small team with care.
Fallout 4 was made by a big team without one.
>>316487215
Huh? Explain
>>316502069
Edward Sallow
>>316502069
Caesar was a follower
>>316501247
Oliver calls them in at some point of story and they start to spawn in several NCR bases like Dam or Forlorn Hope, usually carrying machinegun or gatling laser. Bit more durable cannon fodder.
At same time Hanlon calls in elite Rangers, those with black combat armor and trenchcoat, and they start to spawn at ranger outposts. Brush Guns and AMRs. These guys mean business.
It's because they have separate plans for next battle of Dam. Oliver wants all out battle, where Legion gest slaughtered en masse, and he becomes a hero. And he doesn't want Rangers to "steal" victory from him again.
Hanlon knows with odds like that Oliver won't hold Dam, so less-than-officially gathers Rangers who will slow down Legion enough for major part of NCR army to reach California, and get ready to defend it.
>>316502069
Caesar was originally with the Followers of the Apocalypse. I believe he went out West, to Arizona, with another Follower to meet Joshua Graham. During this time, he educated himself about ancient Rome. He and his traveling companions were captured by tribals, and then he rose to power as the leader of the new Rome.
>>316502403
The Veteran Rangers would have been in the Mojave sooner but Oliver had them doing go-nowhere bullshit down in Baja
>>316502437
>During this time, he educated himself about ancient Rome.
He probably did it before he went West.
>>316497284
Yeah, I like it when games subvert that common bullshit thing of "the guy who tells you to do the opposite of what the quest giver says is right"
>>316501237
>Fallout 4 was made with big budget, big team and they had 4 fucking years to make the game.
If you believe Bethesda, Fallout 4 started with porting Skyrim to PS4/XB1, but somewhere along process they decided to make new Fallout instead.
That makes 2 years of development at most.
>>316502638
Wiki says something about a cache of books they found.
>>316502772
Oh, maybe I'm wrong then.
>>316502770
>But somewhere along the line they decided to make Fallout instead of Skyrim
Source?
The part about porting Skyrim to the Xbox One is true, however.
Bethesda only has about 100 employees.
Ubisoft is seeking to have 1000 employees at their Toronto and Montreal offices by 2020.
Therefore, Bethesda's team is actually rather small and concise in comparison to all the other competition, and they therefore should have had far better cohesion and communication among the departments to make a more focused, tighter game.
The problem comes from money. When Morrowind was released bethesda was in Do-Or-Die mode, they had to make an amazing game or force being shut down. Now that they are awash with cash, laziness and ineptitude sets in- they expect people to take a far less quality product and purchase it at the same price as their previously good title, even though that was a decade ago.
Just as Valve has managed to rake in millions of dollars by skirting international gambling laws, appealing to style over substance, and all of this without actually releasing a single game in the last 8 years that wasn't created by someone else.
Obsidian is endearing because they always manage to break even and are trying to be ambitious in what they do. AAA companies no longer have any ambition whatsoever- this is clear in the likes of Bioshock Infinite and Fallout 4.
>>316500580
Basically him becoming more assertive is to prevent the same thing you fucked over Benny with from happening to you.
>>316503082
>far less quality product
Its not really a lesser quality product though. Its par the course for their previous games, which are broken, shallow messes that are like crack to casuals.
>>316488047
This argument has gone full circle...
>>316503082
I'd rather Obsidian do better than break even and not lose out on pay bonuses by one Metacritic point, though.
>>316489646
I'm sorry if you play games without bug fixes you aren't a purist you're a retard.
>>316503082
I think this is true to an extent. It also comes from the culture of complacency that games media sites, marketing, and publisers / developers propagate in conjunction. When IGN softballs Bethesda's games for being, "forgivably buggy", they're encouraging others to say the same, instead of questioning whether we deserve a buggy, broken, streamlined mess from what is one of the leading developers in the genre, if not the industry. This in turn tells Bethesda that they don't NEED to improve their games, because marketing, the media, and brand fanboys encourage this type of biased exceptionalism.
>>316503854
This is why you hear shit like, "modders will fix it," all the time. Obviously not the majority, but some people legitimately believe that Bethesda has no obligation to deliver a finished, polished product that isn't the iteration prior with a fresh coat of paint, regurgitated with fewer features.
It blows my mind that one of the most common complaints of New Vegas among the media and consumers was, "it's too similar to Fallout 3, it's just Fallout 3 DLC, when one of the more common remarks about Fallout 4 is, "it's more Fallout 3, and I'm okay with that."
>>316488047
That makes no logical sense. If they'd played 1 or 2 they'd only have more reason to dislike Fallout 4
