>gigantic shields
>rapid shield regeneration
>minimal shieldstun
>minimal hitstun
>incredibly fast rolls
>high base knockback on nearly every attack
>no momentum preservation in jumps
>massive blast zones
All of these features result in a very defensive game. There is little temptation to play riskfully because there is almost no reward for offensive play. Gone are the combos and strings of 64 and Melee. Very often, neither player has an advantage over the other in terms of game state, and because of this, matches quickly become stale. For me at least, the Smash hype is gone.
Many of you can ignore these problems and enjoy the game anyway, and I'm glad for you. There's so much content in Smash 4 that I wish Melee had. So you guys should keep on playing 4, and the Meleefags will keep on playing Melee.
And yet is the best Smash yet.
Crazy world, huh?
>>272952745
>And yet is the best Smash yet.
I disagree, and I believe you and other people who praise Smash 4 as the "best" are just blindly in love with it because it's the newest, period
>>272952603
it's still great to play casually, but then again, 64/Melee/PMare better to play casually than it
>>272952603
Just play as Marth and punish defensive play by breaking shields, git gud faggot.
>>272953085
>playing one of the worst characters in the game
kek
>>272952745
It makes me happy to see that people are enjoying the new Smash. No one would have claimed that Brawl is the best game, so 4 is definitely a step up.
>>272952908
I agree with you as well, though. I don't quite understand why people would like any Smash more than Melee in terms of casual or competitive, but I suppose it's just taste.
>>272953242
>worst
>almost never lose as marth
You just suck, you probably don't even know about his tip'd its.
>>272953362
hits*
Samurai put his heart and soul into this game aND you bash on it but once Sony comes out with Kill Zone ft. Nathan Drake you suddenly get on your knees and suck cock for it
>>272953362
Naw, Marth sucks. You just beat scrubs.
>>272953362
>tippers don't even match sword animations
marth is busted. They took everything that made him good in the other games and nerfed it without buffing anything. He is shit
>>272952908
>just blindly in love with it because it's the newest
I've been playing it for 2 months now, since the 3DS launch. Played alone, played with the same friends I've been playing since Melee and played lots of online (mostly 1-on-1).
The game had and still has some problems, specially in the pacing. The removal of VI in favor of a more traditional DI was a great move. Rolls are still very hard to punish so people spamming projectiles are a big problem.
Still, it has a great pacing now. I like how the early, mid and late game all last more than they did before, but not long enough so it gets boring.
Even after the patch, the 3DS had the issue of controls, however, which are fixed on the Wii U. Having great controls, that gigantic roster and stage selection, the solid online gameplay (works way better than in the 3DS version) and even the art style all make this Smash my absolute favorite.
All that and 8 player Smash is a shitload of fun, holy shit.
Wii U > Melee > Brawl > 3DS > 64
>>272953520
I don't like shooters or Sony.
Or is this a pasta? In that case, disregard this reply entirely.
>>272953520
>game has problems
>point out problem
>FUCKING SONYGGERS
So, this and cuckold are the new hip memes on /v/?
>fighting game marxists
You niggers are dealing with theory here, theory and nothing else. Like when vectoring was discovered and people theorized it could get you out of combos, but we hardly saw that being used. And now VI even was mostly removed.
You can say it's defensive, that shield are hard to break and whatever you want. It's not wrong stating that, but it sounds much more serious in theory than it is when you actually play it. Just go watch some tourneys on the fucking 3DS version, which doesn't even has decent controls. It's not as agressive or fast paced as Melee, of course, but it still feels great to play and even to watch.
I can set up combos with fucking Ike.
How about the removal of DACUS?
I kind of expected the nerf to vectoring, or maybe change it to the old DI system but why was DACUS removed?
>>272954248
>sounds worse in theory, feels great to play and watch
Maybe to you, but I'm really not feeling it. When I play, all these problems completely dominate the match and make it uninteresting. This might be because I play with my Melee friends, but regardless, I don't like it. Even watching high-level play isn't too entertaining to me.
>>272954625
It's very strange that it was included and then removed. I guess Sakurai and his team dislike any sort of advanced technique.
>Fighting game Marxism
How many more buzzwords can we come up with for Marxism? So far I've heard cultural marxism and fighting game marxism.
>>272954896
The way I feel it there's a lot more positioning in between combat, generally I end up in dodge roll contests with each of us trying to get the upper hand, then normal combat ensues.
>>272954896
It's a different game, intreesting on its own way.
>Combos
Go play mvc faggot
I feel like they found a good balance between content and gameplay. There's so much great stuff to do on the game, and playing it feels great too.
It's not even 'defensive', it's just dull. No attack can ever connect with another attack in this game, so it just becomes a game of trading blows and grabbing all the time.
>>272955313
I understand that it isn't Melee(and that we probably won't get another Melee for a long time), but there's so much time spent where nothing is happening that it just bores me.
64>4>melee>brawl
>>272955462
I don't want boring automatic combos like in SF and MvC. That's why I play Smash in the first place.
>>272955826
64 is the weakest game.
>>272955826
Melee>4>64>Brawl
>>272955754
>won't get another Melee for a long time
There will never be another Melee. The series is going to a different direction right now, even though the team in 4 realy tried to please both the casual and hardcore crowd.
Plus, I don't get this "so much time spend where nothing is happening". When the hell nothing happens?
>>272953634
the very fact that you rate the 3DS below fucking BRAWL invalidates everything else you're saying because it shows how shit you are
>>272955886
I find them easier to get into than Tekken at least. That's basically Memorization: The Game.
>>272952745
>super 200% bros brawl 2.0
>best
AYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY LMAO
Maybe I'm just not gud enough to escape combos, but I'm noticing all sorts of people in for glory connecting attacks quite easily. Am I missing something here?
>>272956102
Having better gameplay means nothing when the controls are absolute shit. Doing tilts with the circle pad is borderline impossible and short hopping is hard.
Brawl not only has much more content and ways to play (Special Smash, Event Match and etc) but you can even play with real controls.
>>272953362
>I'm really good at him so he doesn't even suck you guys
I bet you play Ganondorf, too, don't you?
I feel the game has the same problem Brawl had: it includes a lot of content that nobody cares about, they should have focused on the multiplayer modes, which are the sole reason to get this game in the first place.
Brawl>Melee>SBB64>Smash 4
Fuck the rolls in this game.
>>272956187
Have you played the game recently?
>>272955997
>new Melee never
Obviously there will never be another game like Melee in the SSB series. I'm just hoping for any game that plays like Melee.
>time where nothing is happening
Rolling around, safe from harm. Sending out projectile after projectile, none of them actually hitting the opponent. Spaced aerials sent at a shielding player to keep them in shield. Things like these.
>>272956242
Just mash dodge when you're in the air (but not when you're about to land, that's really unsafe).
>>272956414
Oh my, that's quite the rare opinion.
>>272956414
Enjoy your tripping m8
>>272956408
I'm not sure I get what you mean it useleses content.
Most of the modes are all related to the core gameplay. 8 player Smash, Event Mode, Master/Crazy Orders, Classic and etc are all the core Smash experience with set, different rules. Even the customized fighters are directly related to how the multiplayer experience works.
Maybe trophies could be called useless, but everyone loves them.
>>272956543
I do that, but there are still some players that manage to at least connect an attack. I know I'm not apart of the tourney scene, and I don't have the eye for this shit, but it seems like we're able to connect a few attacks on a regular basis.
Again, this is just a cursory glance, so I maintain that I could just be reading all of this wrong.
>>272956745
I think he means things like Masterpieces that bloat the game.
>>272956838
Depending on which character you're playing, you could probably attack them back before they have a chance to hit you a second time. Throw out a neutral air or forward air and hit 'em back. If that doesn't work, try adjusting your timing when it comes to airdodging.
>>272956980
Masterpieces are literally the only thing that came into my mind, and yet they are little roms that use, at max, 50MB and were probablly put in the game in 15 minutes.
i don't know about "best" or "worst" but somehow i'm still used to playing "melee style" i.e. just trying to rush the guy as fast as possible, and it seems like i get punished by doing this both against the AI and human players. it may be a question of git gud on my part but it's kind of frustrating to me, and i don't want to play defensive because i don't want stale matches like OP describes
so yeah
>>272957241
Alright, thanks for the tips. Maybe I can finally handle some of the better Yoshi players out there.
>>272955910
nah
>>272957462
In my personal experience, I can successfully rush or play defensive depending on the circumstance. Sometimes it's worth risking, and other times it's better for me to just hang back.
Again, just my experience, and limited too as I didn't play the 3DS version all that often.
>>272957462
It's not like it's impossible to be extremelly agressive. Everything here is punishiable, from air dodges to rolls.
The thing is that nailing those shots is really hard, so playing agressively requires a lot of skill while rolling around requires having two fingers.
So you can see why everyone who really plays at the comp scene is liking the game and people like OP is hating it. If you can't play it's because you aren't good enough.
>>272954625
It was probably removed because you can only really do it with the N3DS so it would give an unfair advantage to players with it.
>>272957761
I find myself agreeing with the competitive scene more and more these days, it's strange. I mean I'm a casual player and don't usually care about this stuff, but MK8 just feels better than MKWii, and 4 better than Brawl. I like the balance so far.
>>272957761
OP here, I'm actually pretty good at Smash 4. It's just boring to me that the gameplay revolves around punishing bad rolls.
>>272958080
i'm not going to claim to be good at smash but yeah, totally agreed, i could probably learn how to play defensive but if it comes down to dodging and waiting for the other guy to attack first, that sounds boring as shit
>>272957462
I probably just need to git gud but I couldn't agree more. feels bad m8
>>272952603
>caring about gameplay is Smash Bros
It's a fucking party game, you tryhard. Does anybody think about the gameplay in the new Mario Kart or Mario Party? No? Then stop fucking sperging.
>>272958939
>I don't care about the gameplay in a video game
>>272959092
Party game is a genre of videoame where the gameplay doesn't matter.
>>272957761
>So you can see why everyone who really plays at the comp scene is liking the game and people like OP is hating it.
I went to a Melee tournament today with a bunch of people who got the game at midnight and played it until the sun was up. The opinions ranged from "meh" to "terrible." What the hell are you talking about?
>>272959148
Except it does you retard. There's a reason why people are playing Mario Kart still and not fucking Wacky Races
>>272958939
>>272959148
>>272959148
You had me. 5/10
>>272953356
people have been hyping this for years. no matter how good or bad it was they would say its the best and its everything they ever wanted
>>272958939
>many of you can ignore these problems and enjoy the game anyway
I am not one of these people. Whether it makes me a tryhard or not, my taste isn't something I can just toggle on and off.
>>272958801
i think we need to start a wifi club for mediocre playerswho just want to have fun
>>272958939
It's not a party game. Mario Party is a party game.
>>272959350
Because it's a popular IP that gets new entries and contains characters and references from popular games. Party games like Smash Bros and Mariokart sell on the IPs their based off of, not their gameplay.
>>272959596
>>272959595
And so is Smash Bros.
>>272959595
>responding to bait
>discussing this topic for the millionth time
>>272959596
I can only hope you don't actually believe this
>>272959806
Pretty much nobody cares about Smash Bros' gameplay. You're delusional if you believe otherwise.
>>272960428
What about all of these people?
http://www.ssbwiki.com/Power_rankings
>>272960894
An insignificant number of people compared to the total that will buy Smash just to see Pacman and Mario in the same game, pretty much nobody.
>>272961097
What about all the people that play Melee on CRTs across North America?
http://smashboards.com/forums/tournament-listings.51/
I will give that they are in the minority in terms of numbers, but they aren't "pretty much nobody".
>>272961391
Insignificant autists. It's like calling Pokemon an H-game because of all the furries and pedos on /vp/.
>>272961705
If they're insignificant, why did Sakurai add "For Glory" mode? They must mean something to him if he tried to accomodate them in Smash 4.
>>272962028
>>>272961705 (You)
>If they're insignificant, why did Sakurai add "For Glory" mode?
It's pretty halfassed and isn't actually good for tourneyfags since they don't actually like playing on FD all the time, so it's probably just a result of NOA pushing tourney play to advertise Smash even though Smash 4 1v1 is boring.
Reminder that Melee is the worst in the series and anyone who thinks otherwise should not be taken seriously.
>>272962460
Justify this shit opinion.
>>272962438
That's still more than nothing, but yeah, the devs don't care too much about the gameplay. Development should return to HAL.
