![c++-logo[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/WeWw9XP.png "c++-logo[1].png")
Been wanting to develop games for fun for a while now. What programming language (if any) should I learn beforehand? What engine should I use to develop them on? I don't want to make a 2D platformer or RPG maker game.
>>258921008
Ruby, Python, C, or Java. C++ is bloated to hell and you'd end up like an anon on the programming threads over at /g/ thinking he's stupid because in his 2 months of studying he barely scratched the surface.
>Can program
>Remember that I can't draw
>>258921482
Thanks. I was leaning towards C. As someone who never programmed before should I take a community college class for it or is it possible to learn in my spare time? Any idea how much I will use that language when using an already created engine like Unreal, source, unity, ect will be?
>>258921743
I'm friends with an artist and someone who can make music. If I know how to program I might be able to make some horrible indie game on greenlight and make money off of losers for 90% off.
>>258921008
If you want to make 2D games, you should probably learn RPG Maker, Game Maker,or Multimedia Fusion. C++ will take years to learn before you can make games with it. You can learn free engines in a matter of weeks/months.
lol just use java and create minecraft 2
I'm just about to go into a digital media course to learn shit then heading onto an actual vidya course. Good luck op. See you on the flipside.
>>258922913
This, just learn to art and you can do whatever with those engines.
>>258922913
I want to make basic 3D games. Some platformers and some doom clones. I always wanted someone to make a 3D 3rdperson shooter platformer as well so I might try that.
>>258921008
>What programming language (if any) should I learn beforehand?
Python is a great bigger language because it gets you thinking about how to program things without bogging you down with complicated syntax. After that C is a good choice since most engines accept C as a language or have a language based off it.
>What engine should I use to develop them on?
Really depends. Unity has a free version but there are others. Any one is fine really. If you're making something basic, the fine details between engines isn't important.
>>258921743
Pic related
>>258921893
>As someone who never programmed before should I take a community college class for it or is it possible to learn in my spare time?
Programming is easily learned by reading tutorials and books and playing around with the language. Some of the best programmers in the world learned from books.
>>258923215
bump
>>258923425
Fuck, forgot the pic.
>>258921008
if you're going for C++, consider looking into the Torque game engine, it's under an MIT license now so it's FREE
https://github.com/GarageGames/Torque3D
>>258921743
A guy on agdg comissioned a dude to do is art.
If you can't deal with mediocre artist failing simple
deadline think about spending money on that stuff.
>>258921008
>>258923215
Thirding this
>>258923442
That design looks cool but it is so impractical from a biological standpoint that it bothers me.
>>258923397
>always wanted someone to make a 3D 3rdperson shooter platformer as well so I might try that.
There are also a lot of free engines 3D out there. You can use the Half Life or Quake engines, Unity, Unreal, or something else.
>>258921482
>Recommends Python
>C++ is bloated
Clearly no idea what you're talking about.
>>258921482
>C++ is bloated to hell
what are you talking about. You have to link in like half a dozen libraries to do almost anything in it.
>>258924008
I think the idea was that programming something in Python takes less lines than it does in C++.
>>258923397
>Basic 3D games.
Always begin with 2D, 3D is more difficult to optimize
Especially if you're just starting prog.
>>258921008
If your only aim is to make video games, just use something like Game Maker (with GML), or Construct Classic, or Unity.
You have to have a legitimate interest in technology if you actually want to make a game from scratch using something like Monkey X or C++
>>258921482
>C++ is bloated to hell
>Ruby, Python, or Java
lmao
>>258921482
Remove Java and your suggestion is probably the best in this thread.
>>258921008
>moving off for uni next month to study games technology
anyone have some advice for me?
>>258925291
study programming/computer science in general or something; you're just limiting yourself if you choose games
plus I hear it's not a very useful degree
>>258924008
>>258924434
>>258925083
>>258925195
See all these conflicting opinions OP?
I put those suggestions there just to bait.
Use what you want if you feel you can handle it. Though it's a good thing to have multiple languages under your belt.
>>258923884
In what way?
There are many impractical seeming things (to us) that have valid biological reasons. You don't know the circumstances behind the evolution that would bring about that kind of animal. Maybe the gravity is significantly lower? Maybe there's swarms of creatures that fly only at that specific height at certain times of their day?
I-I just want to make fun roguelikes in my spare time
>>258925291
>to study games technology
>anyone have some advice for me?
Have you looked into the daily life and career of a game dev? It's pretty much being chained to a desk and forced to produce whatever bullshit your bosses are telling you to make and then being fired after completing it.
If you want to program as a career, take computer science and avoid video games.
>>258925291
Do Computer Science or Computer Engineering instead. Do the game stuff in your own time.
>>258925617
>See all these conflicting opinions OP?
Half of these "opinions" are just refuting the outright false statement that C++ is somehow more bloated than Java, Ruby, or Python.
OP, I don't give a fuck if you use Python, Ruby, or Java, but doing it because someone tells you that C++ is "more bloated" is fucking stupid. It's a lie, plain and simple.
>>258926282
I just want to know which one would translate best into making a game in a generic engine.
>>258926524
C and Java are very common. No matter what complaints people have with them, if you know how to program in one of them, programming in any other starts to feel very similar.
>>258926901
Not really.
OOP poisons the mind.
>>258926282
>Be a dumbass
>Someone on /g/ tells me to stop learning python because they said it was garbage
>Decide to move to Java
>Someone says it's garbage
>Move to C++
>Same as before
>Now on Ruby
Shit, at least I have an idea of the differences in the languages I guess. I'll stick with Ruby for now and jump back onto C++ later.
Here's a shitty calculator I made in C++
>>258926524
By simple virtue of being the more popular game programming language (and by virtue of the language allowing more control over minutiae like memory allocation), you're probably going to find more game programming libraries for C++ than any other language.
A close second, however, would be Java. Java isn't really suited toward big games, but if what you're looking to make is a simple 2D platformer or something similar then Java will suit you just fine, and it's quite a bit easier to learn than C++. I would personally recommend C++, but it can be intimidating to an early programmer and Java's not a terrible alternative.
>>258927171
>endl
Why.
>Want to make a game
>Try my hand at C++
>Takes me two days to even make the most simple comandline shit like a calculator
>Realize I'm not smart enough to grasp this stuff and make a game with it unless I spend years of my life learning it
>Quit and never try again
I wish I could learn to make games without having to spend years studying.
>>258927305
I'm sure you're smart enough to be a backalley slut though.
Go for it, anon.
>>258927305
You do realize being good at something takes time and dedication right?
>>258927242
Other anons recommended C. If say my first engine is unity would C be good enough?
>>258927302
I'm still learning man
What's wrong with endl?
>>258927171
My input would be "Fuck you OP" and it would crash your program.
>>258927305
If you can make a command-line calculator then you can make a text adventure, which is where you should be starting as an amateur game developer anyway.
C++ and java would be your best bets. Java is probably easier. I don't know much about Ruby, but python is easy, but more restrictive than aforementioned languages.
What do you guys feel about game makers and the likes
>>258921743
Well for your first game, you could use many of the assets available on the net. Look for sites that offer free spritework.
If after your first couple of games you decide to get serious, you can as that one guy suggested, commission an artist or just find a friend who can do the artwork for you.
>>258927802
what do you mean by good enough
as far as i know, with unity, all you need is a scripting language
>>258927305
I don't know if you have previous experience but oop is complicated and will require more than a few hours to master
>>258927846
Use '\n' instead.
If you think that does the same thing as endl, that's exactly the problem; endl also does other things.
Not your fault mind you, most tutorials for beginners will tell you to use endl.
>>258927846
I think that anon is thinking about using printf instead cout/endl. I use cout endl because I've been using it a lot of time but I think it's better printf, you can do more things with that and it's more flexible.
>>258927846
>What's wrong with endl?
Nothing, but I believe using "\n" produces the same result
Also I'm fairly certain you include the line:
using namespace std
Before the function to avoid having to always type "std::"
>>258928331
not op but , then it's better std::cout << "test\n" than std::cout << "test" << std::endl?
>>258928139
Good enough for most hobbyists and people who just aren't into spending months doing engine work.
>>258921008
Flash.
Just learn flash.
It's simple quick and is so ubiquitous that if you don't have a flash player on your pc you're pretty much cut off from 99% of all content on the web.
>>258925617
>conflicting opinions
None of these conflict with each other, we were all calling you out for not knowing anything about C++. You were probably thinking of C#, which is indeed a retarded, bloated language.
OP once you learn one language you've learned them all. Just buy/steal a textbook for any of them and sit down and go through the whole thing writing sample programs for every single thing you learn.
>>258927305
Thats like going to the rodeo and riding the biggest, meanest bull there your first time ever.
>>258927305
>years
Nigga get, "Beginning C++ Through Game Programming".
Nice book for learning the basics of C++ and having references that are not msdn.
>>258928740
std::endl isn't '\n'
it's '\n' followed by std::flush
>>258927305
>I wish I could learn to make games without having to spend years studying.
You don't have to.Learn a free engine.
See:>>258922913
>>258928740
www.cplusplus.com/reference/ostream/endl/
It says in the reference that endl creates a new line then "flushes" the stream. I'm guessing constantly calling it is not an optimal thing to do. Not exactly sure though. I'm not an expert.
>>258927171
>listening to what people tell you after starting by telling you X language is garbage
You'll never learn anything this way. About half of the posts doing this aren't even going to be from people that have programmed more than some hello world shit.
They just saw someone say once "EVERYTHING OTHER THAN C++ IS SHIT" so spout it to try and sound smart.
>>258929246
There's nothing wrong with calling it if you want to flush the output stream. However, you might not always want to do that. Sometimes you just want a newline character without outputting text.
>>258927901
This.
I just started learning C++ and after a while practicing if else statements and such, (after creating a calculator) I made a little tiny text adventure. It was short as fuck, but I was pretty damn excited to see it compile.
>>258927305
It just takes time, anon. Keep practicing, you'll never improve if you always expect to compile a code correctly on the first few tries. I thought the same when I just started, but I just decided to try again and again until I finally fixed my errors.
It's a pretty thrilling experience once you get something to work.
>>258927509
But how can I make a living out of that anon?
>>258927727
I have a lot of the former but none of the latter, though if I had any genuine talent that wouldn't be a problem.
>>258927901
Well by command line calculator I mean it can do addition, subtraction, multiplication and division, and that's all by using the built in functions. It's noting more than that.
Anyway I don't see how that would translate into a text adventure. Seems like it would take a lot of know how to get it to understand words without blowing up.
>>258928217
>oop
Huh?
>>258929053
Ill check that out anon though I don't know how much it will help, thanks anon.
>>258929241
Everyone seems to hate those ready made engine games though, and the games made on them are always criticized for the same sorts of flaws.
>>258925646
Also they're actually creative representations of sperm cells
>>258921008
In a perfect world, you should know more than just one programming language since different languages can offer different benefits. I know Java, Python and some C++. I wish I knew more. I'm best with Java and is my goto language if I want to code something up. I don't need to think of the syntax since I am so used to it, I just code it. I wish I could do that in other languages.
if you ONLY want to make games, look into something like Gamemaker or Unity. Learning a language and coding your game structure from scratch will waste a lot of time and effort if you're more of a design-oriented person and all you have interest in is creating games.
On the other hand, if you're also interested in computer science or software development as a whole, start learning a more proper language. It'll take longer to learn and longer to actually make games, but the experience will carry over into far more.
>>258929763
>Seems like it would take a lot of know how to get it to understand words
Being able to comprehend an actual sentence would be hard as fuck, and if you could do it you'd probably be working for Google. But what you can do is make a list of actions and a list of objects and have the playing input an action and an object.
>>258929763
>understand words without blowing up
Just parse the strings for the keywords that work nigga shit.
If the string doesn't match you just do a "that action is invalid"
>>258929763
>Seems like it would take a lot of know how to get it to understand words without blowing up.
You could create an entire, fleshed out text adventure with nothing but if/else statements and the barest knowledge of accepting text input.
The code would be bloated as fuck if you use nothing but if/else but it's entirely possible and conceptually very simple.
>>258929246
the problem isn't the call to flush as much as the fact that most C++ programmers will never learn it's happening because very few tutorials ever address it
most people are taught that endl is a platform independent '\n', i sure was and that was in a "reputable" university, which is none-sense since '\n' is already platform independent
>>258930234
>which is none-sense since '\n' is already platform independent
'\n' is platform-independent, but doesn't Windows, at the very least, also require a '\r' to actually get a new line?
>>258929763
oop = object oriented programming.
Download Unity and just start reading books and tutorials. Try to make something really simple. You can write your programs in either Javascript or C#, but I strongly suggest C# as it has external utilty to game making as well.
I made tetris in xna
>>258930392
'\n' (line feed) output to a text stream automatically inserts the '\r' (carriage return) in Windows. It won't for a binary stream, but you'll know when you're using one of those.
Similarly, reading a '\r\n' in a Windows text stream automatically converts it to a '\n'.
>tfw CC, C2, MMF
visual programming is the shit.
>>258930392
maybe it did at some point but when i was first learning c++ over four years ago '\n' was enough
>>258930234
>which is none-sense since '\n' is already platform independent
If you're writing to a file, DOS-like systems expect \r\n.
Which language would work best with unity? Which would work best for source and unreal?
>>258929763
Being a backalley slut is piecework, suck enough dicks and you'd be able to do just fine.
>>258930932
>Which language would work best with unity?
Unity accepts Java and C. Not sure the others, but you could google it.
Java is easier but if you're coming from c++ it's going to irk you how you don't have direct control over pointers.
>>258930932
It looks like Source is in C++, and Unreal is in C++ with an optional UnrealScript scripting language thrown in besides.
That was just a cursory Google search, though. If you're thinking about using either you might want to do some more research.
>>258931120
>Unity accepts Java and C
kek
>>258930638
xna is actually a good place to start. One step above the RPG maker and other game creators, but doesn't require a huge investment. And for all people bitch about Microsoft, if you use Windows getting set up from scratch is super easy.
Plus if you end up enjoying programming, C# and .NET are useful, and C# is syntactically similar to C, C++, and Java if you want to branch out.
I've been meaning to try to motivate myself to learn more C++. I found a good guide. Shits just intimidating to get into.
>>258931554
Sorry. C#, Javascript, and whatever the hell boo is.
>>258929763
>Everyone seems to hate those ready made engine games though, and the games made on them are always criticized for the same sorts of flaws.
Not really. I've played a bunch of fun ones. You can't have it both ways.
>>258921482
Why would you use Ruby for games?
>>258923609
Notch can draw better than me.
>>258929763
>Everyone seems to hate those ready made engine games though, and the games made on them are always criticized for the same sorts of flaws.
/v/ does this. Especially freshman CS kids on /v/.
Nobody cares what the fuck you use to make a game if it's fun.
Just like make game man.
>>258929731
I suppose, I just don't think I have a good grasp of the material, always had to flip back and forth in the tutorial to get things to work.
>>258930178
>>258930202
>>258930217
Oh I see what you are saying, that makes sense.
>>258930430
Oh, sorry I am not familiar with the terms as I should probably be.
And thanks for the advice, I will look into unity.
>>258931059
That's good, I guess I have a back up plan now.
>>258931945
I'm sure you know better than me anon, I'm just saying what I myself often see said around here.
>>258921743
As long as you're not planning on selling your game stealing assets is always a good option.
>>258932294
Well
Game engines are pretty popular for run off the mill eroge. They can look professional but at the end of the day I don't think you can land a job with only knowing game maker shit.
>>258931604
Yeah I'd recommend it to anyone in here that is beyond the "Hello World" stage of programming.
I don't have much experience, mostly university related stuff and that was mostly in C and some Java, but I was able to work out the Tetris game over a weekend or so without any guides.
It's pretty easy to learn and you still feel like you're doing more than drag/drop pieces to make the game.
I really like properties too, it just feels a lot cleaner than Get/Set everywhere in Java.
What do you people use to program in C++?
>>258933130
>without any guides
Should say without any guides on making Tetris.
Of course I had to use references when first learning C# and the XNA stuff.
>>258933224
NetBeans if you hate microsoft and Visual Studio if you don't care.
>>258921482
>2014
>make game in C
>2014
>use C
>>258933224
CodeBlocks
>>258933224
QtCreator nigga. A friend of mine has family working for a big robotics company and they use it for making all their testing programs (although not actually for the robots code)
>>258930784
"\n" is a platform-independent line-ending according to the C standard.
If the system needs a \r\n (or, in the case of older macintosh machines, \n\r) for a line ending, the C standard library is required to make this conversion from a regular "\n" (except for binary streams, where things are input and output literally).
In fact, on a Windows machine, outputting "\r\n" to a text stream will usually actually output "\r\r\n".
If I were to make a VN with sprites and an isometric view for traveling and interacting with everything, which language should I start learning?
>>258921008
Since you don't want to make the easy stuff go straight to an engine like Unity or UE.
You need a lot of in depth knowledge to make anything close to being decent. To know how to use a language properly to develop something massive you also need to know how the hardware works.
>>258933714
C is still extraordinarily useful.
As a career C++ programmer, I've got to agree that making games in C is retarded, but if you want anything embedded, a kernel module, or pretty much anything that needs performance and doesn't benefit from OOP, C is the ideal.
Use the best tool for the job. There's a reason almost every OS kernel is written in C.
>>258933224
Vim.
>>258925761
If that's all you want to do, game maker or similar is all you need.
>>258921008
Use this OP.
http://lazyfoo.net/tutorials/SDL/index.php
>>258934163
>tfw not enough of a 1337 hacker to use vim and gdb and all the other unfriendly shit
I'm sorry
>>258934078
So a frank adventure sort of game? Doesn't really matter, I would probably go for java if I hadn't done any earlier programming.
>>258933224
pico
>>258934078
If you just want to make that one game ever, then none.
Something like that could easily be done in a game maker for much less trouble with nearly no hit to quality.
>>258934078
You could just use RPG Maker for that probably.
>>258921008
Start with C to understand how to deal with data types more eficiently, then proceed to C# with Monogame to start scripting for unity, C++ is excellent if you want to create engines (something you won't do untill you're more comfortable with programming), so C for your first exposure, then scripting with C# for unity and if you wan't to really get into it, try C++ after you're used to scripting.
>>258921008
>. What programming language (if any) should I learn beforehand?
If you just want to make a game, learn to use Unity or even GameMaker, which is significantly easier.
C++ is neat, but it's not for small, indie games, and for fast prototyping of ideas. You need to really know what the fuck you are doing. I've been programming in C++ for about 10 years now and I wouldn't use it to make a game, unless it's something I know I can't do with a ready-built engine.
Also, keep in mind just learning C++ means nothing, because you also need to learn how to implement 3rd party libraries for sound, graphics, etc. Proprietary engines do that for you, which saves a lot of trouble. Moreover, they will be far more optimized than anything you can output in the same timeframe.
In short, fuck programming languages and just use an engine. Anybody suggesting otherwise is a complete fool that has never done anything other than spout buzzwords on 4chan.
>>258933224
VS 2013 and Visual Assist (+ some other minor add-ins)
Did the guy who made the Retard Rain game (the game the guy from AGDG made) do all the art, music, and programming?
Is knowing java or any other language required if I want to make something in unity?
javascript on code acadamy and unity, if you actually want to make games
C++ if you want to spend years doing nothing
>>258933574
>>258933775
>>258933824
>>258934163
>>258934514
>>258934658
So many different answers, what are anybodies experience with any of those?
>>258934658
This, it has a friendly UI and many features i just can't live without anymore.I used to program with code blocks and dev c++, it was terrible
>>258925771
>>258925954
>computer science
DO NOT DO THIS. CS teaches programming but they're mostly focused on COMPUTATION AKA MATH.
If you want to learn to PROGRAM then take software engineering.
>>258934412
Vim is very friendly when you get used to it. When you're a proper vimmer, using anything that requires a mouse is awkward as fuck. Having to press the arrow keys 40 times to get past 5 words in a sentence is pain as opposed to typing "5w".
gdb isn't really "unfriendly" as it is just low-level. It's intended to be used in a terminal without necessary access to a text editor. It excels at what it's meant to do. You can use it as a primary debugger, as many do (including me), but I don't fault anybody for wanting a more tied-in debugger/IDE system (you can even use GDB for this, as many IDEs do).
>>258935013
Visual Studio is in my opinion a lot easier to use for beginners.
>>258933224
I've been using Visual Studio since version 6.0 and currently using VS2012, it's fantastic and despite some minor (but irritatingly frequent) bugs, there isn't anything better out there.
If you want something more lightweight (for instance, for a weak laptop), you can also use Bloodshed's DevC++, but it's bare bones and doesn't have equally good compilers.
>>258935002
>javascript lecturing other languages
there's a reason 99% of javascript libraries are made to make you write in everything except javascript
>>258935013
Code blocks is terrible, and so is Dev C++
Never had any experience with netbeans but that's what my father uses to program his stuff.
What i currently use is VS Express 2013, wich i adore, but there are some other alternatives such as Eclipse, tho i've never had any experience with it
>>258935136
>CS teaches programming but they're mostly focused on COMPUTATION AKA MATH.
>300k starting
>>258931269
>pointers
You haven't seen anything until you've seen pointers to pointers to pointers.
Some people are paid by the asterisk, I fucking swear.
>>258935275
Visual Studio is what every single company uses, including CD Projekt RED and all the other companies making fuck-huge games from scratch.
Source: I applied for CDPR and they asked if I have VS experience.
>>258921008
/v/, how would I go about making something akin to Thief and Dishonored with an art style that can last forever like Wind Waker or shit
i make small games, i usually put them on mobile but occasionally the PC too. i'd post them here but they have my name on them.
if you're going to be a solo dev and you can't draw, you better have money or seriously reconsider the types of games you will be making. it's simply not possible to make those massive indie projects you see on kickstarter all the time by yourself, no you will not make shovel knight. often times artists have a better time being solo devs because there are tools like game maker and unity, if you're a programmer you are stuck with either paying or using programmer art.
don't be a nodev, stay away from /agdg/ since only a handful of the regulars there actually make games
>>258935136
>implying that you shouldn't know both
Get out of my sight, pleb.
Then again, UK and USA universities don't even teach anything other than the bare minimum to get you a job.
>>258935434
>pointers
You mean like this?
>try to learn to program
>take python codeacademy course
>get to the part where I have to remember why something is str() and something is len.[insert something here]
>what the fuck is going on
>realize I'm too stupid to program
>copy paste this in every programming thread I see
>>258934634
>In short, fuck programming languages and just use an engine.
So I wouldn't need to learn an engine for making something quick in Unity or unreal?
Is AGDG good? Should I go over there and ask for some advice? Not op, but somebody interested in making games.
>>258935660
The world would be a better place if everyone were suddenly a mathematician. However people have priorities and would rather learn the minimum necessary to create a game or application rather than learn math in general.
>>258935013
Professional programmer here.
NetBeans is fine for Java, garbage for much else.
Eclipse is the same, but with more idiots actually using it for C++.
CodeBlocks is alright, but a bit bloated and slow.
QtCreator is snappy, lightweight, flexible, and fast. It also has a Vim mode.
Vim/Emacs is awesome if you're willing to learn an editor and manage your own plugins.
Pico is a joke, like Nano.
Visual Studio is fine if you're willing to use proprietary shit (my Unix friends would crucify me if they heard me say this) and don't need proper GCC support. I'd stay away unless you're intentionally only targeting Windows.
>>258935372
>300k starting
Where did you find a job with 300k starting? I'm a computer scientist and I'm struggling to find anything above 40k. You are just a retard saying nonsense, arent you?
>>258935660
In the US employers are barred from using aptitude AKA IQ tests to screen applicants because it's raycis, so they use the next best thing which is college degrees.
>>258935562
If /v/ knew this stuff most of us would be millionaires, but if i undestand correctly you mean cell shading, i haven't had any experience with it
>>258935013
Start with a simple text editor to learn programming.
User an IDE like VS later for convenience.
>>258935665
Assuming you were serious.
>>258921482
>ruby, python C or java
what the fuck, do you know why minecraft is a piece of shit, right? Modern games are made in C++ because you can do a shit ton of proper low optimizations, I wonder if you have ever programmed ever
/v/... I want to make games...
I'm taking a semester of math and computer science. Am I on the right track?
>>258935798
>Pico
I used to use this because Unix and I didn't have anything else to use. Do people actually say it's any good for programming? It's as good as using fucking notepad.
>>258935136
>Muh math
I'm not good at math yet am still pursuing a STEM degree.
Math is important even if you suck at it.
>>258935667
lookup str(): "Returns a string version of an object"
lookup len.: "Return the length (the number of items) of an object."
>>258935972
>Start with a simple text editor to learn programming.
That's a horrible idea.
If anything, using nothing but a regular text editor is for more knowledgeable people who don't need to be told that they have a syntax error or misspelled a function name. Telling someone just starting out to forego stuff like that just seems cruel.
They can safely ignore the more complicated functions of an IDE, though.
>>258935667
The codeacademy course is pretty bad (barely covers OOP), but it shouldn't really give you any trouble. Especially with python since it's fairly idiot proof already.
If you seriously can't get it down, then you're probably right.
>>258935136
Learn math.
Programmers who don't know math are absolute hell to work with.
Programming on a team with math-retarded programmers is like trying to kayak with somebody who's determined to use their feet to row.
They fuck things up, they can't understand optimization, trying to speak to them about big-O notation is a nightmare, and their comments are on the scale of "Move this thingy over there because it looks like it goes faster this way".
Every programmer should be some sort of a mathematician as a base default, just like every construction worker who builds houses should have a base understanding of architecture.
>>258936175
Dude stop with the STEM circlejerking. I get that math is important but most people don't care.
I don't even know how to begin making a game.
I'm fairly alright at programming and currently I am developing some plugins for Cinema 4D, but games? No clue where to start
>>258935667
I made it to the battleship game part of that course before I realized my programming days are over.
Fuck. I just don't get it.
>>258936225
text editor doesn't mean notepad
>>258935818
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/mathematics-phd
>>258936252
>Every programmer should be some sort of a mathematician as a base default
Not your call to make man. There's cost-benefits to this kind of stuff.
>>258936085
No.
Do software engineering, then do some more, then start messing with modelling and texturing, then do some more programming, fail.
Become an humanities student.
>>258935737
last time i saw anything from agdg posted on /v/, it was some weird pedo games with demented text and rpg maker graphics. kinda got a weird vibe from that place. i'd avoid it just based on the fact it's over on a cancer containment board like /vg/.
>>258936085
You need vector math and binary operations, everything else is trite for game development, and even binary math is just if you want to work from scratch, although I would highly recommend it.
Also, no I wouldn't say you are in the right track. If you want to make games, just pick up an engine, or start on your own and make a game. Nobody will teach you how to do it.
>>258936085
A single semester of computer science will probably actually put you above most "indie devs."
So sure.
You ain't gonna learn how to program your own fucking physics engine or anything in that short amount of time, but then I took 4 years of almost nothing but CS classes and I still wouldn't trust myself with something like that.
>>258936225
>knowledgeable people
>regular text editor
Next you're gonna tell me unit tests are for losers
>>258936447
>text editor
What does it mean then?
>>258936228
I have almost come to terms with the fact I'm dumb.
>>258936582
Notepad++
>>258936085
A former teacher of mine said the minimum amount of time you had to put into becoming decent was 7 years or 8000 hours, whichever took the longest.
>>258936582
check out sublime text
Is there a modern 3D engine that doesn't require programming knowledge to do anything with?
>>258935948
It's called "cel shading".
In the simplest form, it's using standard phong shading, but rounding the final color to a specific interval. You can obviously fancy it up, get better performance, better looks, and outlines and shit, but starting simple and actually implementing it is always best.
>>258936813
No.
Even the most advanced engine will require you to at least learn some basic scripting.
>>258936673
Notepad++ is horrible, I only use it for shaders because of the pretty colors.
Seriously , just use Visual Studio, it's a great IDE and has good compilers.
>start playing with UDK
>this shit is pretty cool
>have no idea how to get anything I want to start working and no idea what I want to start working on is
never will I be able to perfect the jagged alliance 2 clone of my dreams
>>258936813
Unity and UE only require scripting. Which is extremely easy, at least for small projects.
>>258936532
>>258936494
>>258936454
>>258936695
I'm actually planning on getting a degree in programming. This is just my first semester after working for 3 years to save up some dosh for college.
They offered me a degree plan for video game design and creation or a general studies for programming and I took the general studies as I have heard that college video game design courses are worthless.
I really really want to make video games but I figured if I couldnt make that happen the general studies in programming degree would come in handy.
>>258936825
So is material based?
Interesting, i had my first experience with dealing with materials today and it was pretty fun.
>>258936813
GameMaker, maybe, but even then, you need some scripting to do anything remotely interesting.
Reminder that programmers are literally the garbage men of Computer Science.
People who want to work for VIDEO GAMES are the toxic underbelly of post-secondary education.
Pic related, a real Computer Scientist.
>>258936942
>Scripting which is extremely easy
Ok, I will try to learn some basic scripting in C or java.
>>258921008
Games are like 95% model design, animation and drawing, so unless you can draw like a motherfucker you cannot develop games.
>>258936093
Learn vi for Unix.
It's still not great for programming like vim is, but it's on every Unix by default from AIX to HP-UX to BSD to even the fucking pseudo-POSIX subsystem of AS400.
>>258936813
You can find visual scripting things for Unity such as PlayMaker and uScript.
I think there is an engine called Godot that uses visual programming and can do 3D too.
>>258935615
i agree. don't go to /agdg/
it's currently filled with raging SJW types capable of a lot of mental gymnastics
gamedev.net is good
>>258937004
That sounds good, but in my opinion doing generic programming (I.E. not gamedev) is the most boring thing ever. It feels like you are contributing towards nothing of essence.
Of course, that's just me.
>>258937004
Yeah sounds like you made the better choice, even if you don't end up working with video games you're still qualified for other programming jobs.
>>258937004
Dodged a bullet there
>>258937089
Not material based, no. It's a different shader.
>>258937139
EBIN troll :^)
>>258937004
They're not worthtless, actually, they'll teach you exactly what you need to know and no more bullshit, like CS has with as the circuit board thingies, i mean, what game developer needs to know that?
While the pay is much better if you have CS and get a stable job, you'll need to study more things focused at programming for games, and will have no practice with programming for games.
It's just a matter of choice really.
>>258937189
I just want to make some prototypes but if it means anything I do have a friend who is an artist who is professional level who I could slave into doing model design and drawing.
>>258937247
>it's currently filled with raging SJW types capable of a lot of mental gymnastics
>AGDG
>SJW
Are you disregarding the fact that a guy making a loli rape simulator is a regular dev and half of AGDG supports him?
Where do I make money on this?
>>258937189
>Games are like 95% model design, animation and drawing
95%? Nah, man, nah. I'd say 50% and another 50% programmers. 60-40 at worst. There are a ton of programmers and scripters in any AAA title.
>>258936532
>A single semester of computer science will probably actually put you above most "indie devs."
No the fuck it won't because an "indie dev" at least has a fucking game out you piece of shit.
Stop attempting to waste people's time with subjects they don't need to fucking learn.
>>258937189
Not necessarily, seeing as i cannot draw a line and can make 3D models just fine.
>>258936451
>Not your call to make man
I wish it was. I have programmers under me who I have to pretty much correct every commit for because they'll write recursive functions that will try to go hundreds of thousands of levels deep, copying every parameter on the way up.
"cost-benefit" is usually bullshit. It's something managers throw around to justify hiring complete idiots, and then they don't realize that their more skilled programmers are doing less of their own programming than reprogramming everything the dipshits do, and then they wonder why the programmers are still having trouble hitting deadlines even thought they hired more programmers.
Hiring a programmer who can't into math is a waste of money, unless you have them stationed permanently on UI-duty.
Thread probably already has all of this advice, but:
- If you haven't done programming before, take up C#. It's a good language to learn principles of code in without wrecking your brain with bullshit that's only necessary 1% of the time. Java is also good for this, because both languages are basically the same, but C# edges Java out with good libraries and IDE.
- Use whatever language helps you make games quickly. C++ is more powerful than C# for example, but you don't need that power most of the time and it'll cost you a lot of time developing high-performance code.
- Use whatever engine will help you make games quickly. Unity engine is very good for rapid prototyping but it has some shortcomings. If you want to make something in 2D and are decent at code then you probably don't need an engine, just a couple libraries like XNA or similar.
- Make lots of games. The best way to achieve and maintain a game development steez is to make a lot of little games, because it feels good to make something, and having a prototype that's playable from early on in development will help you decide if it's worth pursuing the idea or not. Your first project being some ambitious big thing is a stupid idea that will probably destroy your motivation to work.
>>258937382
>EBIN troll :^)
Community college graduate detected.
>he's probably never even heard of Church
>>258937139
You science worshiping fucks are single-handedly DESTROYING CIVILIZATION.
Thanks for that you pieces of shit.
Meanwhile programmers are just relatively normal people doing creative things that they love.
>>258921008
It would be good if you could learn C++ because it's very common but if you're doing basic 3d things and you're new the best thing to do would be to learn C# and use Unity.
OOP is gross and C++ is a bastardized language
pure games are created in C
>>258937189
>so unless you can draw like a motherfucker you cannot develop games
Some of the best games I've played have been flash games with stick figures.
>>258937550
Make it a 2deep4u text adventure game where you are a red pill who hasn't seeked SJW enlightenment.
My advice for when you actually start working on something:
FINISH YOUR FUCKING GAMES.
Don't end up like me or /agdg/. I have so many games at various stages of development on my harddrive. I never keep my promise to come back and finish them.
>>258937004
>They offered me a degree plan for video game design and creation or a general studies for programming and I took the general studies as I have heard that college video game design courses are worthless.
Smart man.
Just for fun, take a few of their "video game" courses and look at the people who took that degree course.
You'll be relieved.
Just as a heads up, you don't make video games because you love video games.
You make video games because you love programming and video games. If you don't love programming, don't do it. You'd be just as well off becoming a chef because you love to eat, even though you hate to cook.
Making video games is a shit ton of fun, but not because it's video games. It's fun because it presents unique problems to program around and solve, and allows you to fully play with real-time programming and graphics concepts.
>>258937247
>it's currently filled with raging SJW types capable of a lot of mental gymnastics
Disgusting.
Is this true? What's up with "creative" or "artistic" subjects being full of retards who don't understand the science behind racial differences?
>>258937917
Why not just go for assembly code then?
>>258937917
>mfw I code in C style but use C++ namespaces and templates
>>258937262
>>258937269
I've actually had some experience in High school with programming.
2 Years of Java and 1 year of c++ but I gave up on it when the teacher was switched out on us on my senior year with some former marine corps programmer who took all the fun out of it for me and told me my dreams were worthless and that video game programming was a shit dream.
I have not programmed for 5 years since then and just recently decided that its what I want to do with my life as I remember how much fun I had learning programming with my first teacher.
The last thing I programmed was a mini old school zelda adventure game with 5 other friends in the class. It was the most fun time doing homework I ever had.
>>258938000
I loved programming the replacement teacher just made me so mad and hate myself and my dream.
>>258937561
No, it's 95%. Programming isn't that important in game dev. Programmers are a dime a dozen, but good artists are really hard to come by.
>>258937616
You are aware that making video games is programming right?
Stop arguing in support of the oversaturation of retard code-monkeys who don't know what an algorithm is.
>>258937484
A lot of people are against Sim Loli though.
>>258936532
>A single semester of computer science will probably actually put you above most "indie devs."
No it won't.
>>258938192
Isn't C++ great? You can use it however you want, including C with some C++ features
>>258938000
>You make video games because you love programming and video games
100% this, even if you flunk out of making video games if you love to solve problems it really shouldn't matter.
>>258938097
i dare everyone on /v/ to make a sidescroller using assembly
>>258938097
I wouldn't be able to create an efficient enough standard library
>>258937616
I'd say that everyone in college should take at least an introductory computer science course.
I'm not saying they need to learn to program, but a basic understanding of the parts of the computer, basic troubleshooting knowledge, and at least barebones knowledge of how a computer operates are all nice to know, especially in an age where just about any job you get is going to require a computer in some fashion.
C++ is worthless unless you exploit templates
I'm kinda interested in graphics programming but I tried reading Bjarne Stroustrups book on C++ and gave up after 3 hours when I couldn't even work out how to install Visual Studio so I could compile a program
>>258937382
>>258937089
>>258936825
>>258935948
thanks anons. my dream is to create spiritual successors to thief much like dishonored has, but with less focus on being an unstoppable killing machine like corvo and more emphasis on being indecipherable from shadows.
>>258936451
>>258937650
I agree that mathematics and logic are important. After all, programming is basically just those things applied in computers. My computer science course included a decent amount of mathematics, and I did a bit more on top of that because I took the games stream, which required some physics and advanced maths for graphics programming.
When I graduated I was a head and shoulders above my regular CS fellows, and I have come to realize in the years since that my university's course structure was far better than many other universities in my state.
tl;dr Certain elements of Math & Logic are important to programming because I have anecdotal evidence
>>258937247
It is not filled with SJW.
>>258938353
I made a drill program in assembler once, took me well over a week, never again!
>>258938424
>when I couldn't even work out how to install Visual Studio
Yeah...that's not the best sign.
>>258937089
>So is material based?
No, it's never done in the fixed function pipeline. It's in the programmable pipeline, so it's separate from the concept of "materials".
Unless you're talking about something besides OpenGL and Direct3D, in which case Material can mean something completely different. I'm a GL guy.
>>258938192
Those names are absolutely horrible, kill yourself.
>>258937139
Well, I guess you're right about computer scientists not being garbagemen, at least.Because Java has garbage collection.
>>258937917
You mean games that aren't ever completed are created in C because you have to pass a billion arguments to get anything interesting done.
C++ is just C, except you can actually get large projects done.
>>258938492
>tl;dr Certain elements of Math & Logic are important to programming because I have anecdotal evidence
Nobody denied this. One simply has to point to a game that was made without advanced knowledge of programming or math and that destroys the "you have to take CS" bullshit arguments ITT.
I don't know any of the top of my head but I've heard it from a few devs before. Probably flash game devs.
>>258938580
I mean I installed it but I had no idea what I was doing and I don't even know if I got the right version
The book just said "refer back to section X to for resources on how to compile a program" then there was nothing there, so I did some googling and apparently Visual Studio is good for compiling C++ source code,
>>258937089
It's done in shaders, not materials
>>258938353
>using assembly
Hello World in windows assembly:
.486p
.model flat,STDCALL
include win32.inc
extrn MessageBoxA:PROC
extrn ExitProcess:PROC
.data
HelloWorld db "Hello, world!",0
msgTitle db "Hello world program",0
.code
Start:
push MB_ICONQUESTION + MB_APPLMODAL + MB_OK
push offset msgTitle
push offset HelloWorld
push 0
call MessageBoxA
push 0
call ExitProcess
ends
end Start
So, what's the differences between C, C# and C++?
If you learn one, do you know most of another?
>>258938665
Man this bitch and that animation is sexy.
Who is she?
>>258938280
>Programmers are a dime a dozen, but good artists are really hard to come by.
GOOD programmers are not a dime a dozen, retard. What would you know? You are just a shitter.
am i doing it right
>>258938445
Dream a little smaller for now, anon.
>>258938910
C# is like java
C is pure
C++ took that pure thing and caked it in mud
>>258938910
Yepp. You also know a lot of Java and C.
>>258938269
Video game programming for a big company is kind of a shit dream.
Not that it's unreasonable, but because programming video games for a big company is shit. It's not fun at all.
The best is to find a good company to do fun regular programming for and do indie games on the side. That's what I do, and I've never been happier in my life.
>>258938424
if you want to be a graphics programmer you're better off learning math, it's all math
>>258936468
Risk of Rain came out of AGDG
>>258938792
Well sure, but half the fun is writing your own graphics libraries, and good luck doing that without at least a cursory understanding of linear algebra
>>258937189
How do I learn to model/animate?
>>258938391
Says the shitter that hasn't programmed anything of significance in his life.
Do you have to be good with numbers to do programming? I'm hopeless with mathetics
>>258937189
>>258938280
>People responding to this retard seriously
Come on, guys. He honestly just said that programming, the very core of game development, isn't very important in game development.
You're being trolled.
>>258939156
>but half the fun is writing your own graphics libraries
Some (most) people don't find that fun. More power to the people who do though.
>>258938496
It is. Go there now and check how many people are bitching about Loli Rape Sim. Maybe it's just a few dedicated shitposters, but the situation is out of control. They start shitposting everytime the dev posts his game.
>>258938910
C is the most basic and pure form of all those languages there. C++ added OOP and a couple of other features into it; some people appreciate the added options, some people think they're just muddying up what was already a perfectly fine language.
C#...I don't have any personal experience with it, but from what I hear it's more similar to Java than it is to either C/C++. And that's typically not a good thing. C/C++ are far from perfect but Java is quite a few steps below either.
>>258939269
Basic programming, no. Optimisation and bigger projects, yes.
>>258939010
noted. im working on a small VN using renpy for now. baby steps
>>258937981
>spend like 20 hours learning sfml and building simple prototypes
>start working on simple ball game and quit before I progressed past having collision between objects and simple gravity
>>258939269
Yes. If you dont know your math. stay away form programming.
>>258939032
I know its not an ideal dream.
Its still my dream though. I just want to make a fun videogame that thousands of people enjoy.
I want to be able to see my game packaged on a shelf on some game store and say I helped make that.
I know the horror stories and I don't care I just want to make video games man.
>>258938618
Mmaterials in shaders pretty much mean some uniform values that you pass to the shader for instance exponents and shininess values for specular lighting etc, to make something seem more or less shiny, etc etc.
