>just beat the extremely annoying and tedious Earth and Wind temples after a few hours in each
>just wanna fucking kill Ganondorf already
>"Nope sorry. Here is a treasure hunt for the triforce pieces that expands the entire map."
>having a chart translated by Tingle costs a small fortune
>need 8 in order to progress
FUCKING DROPPED
I'm sorry that your ADHD is so crippling OP.
I don't get why people like Wind Waker.
>most tedious mandatory side quests
>virtually no puzzles compared to other Zeldas
>mind-numbingly, boringly easy
>like, 15 kinds of enemies in the whole game
I don't get why people like Wind Waker.
>>257544764
If I had ADHD I wouldn't have made it this far considering how fucking tedious and boring the travel is.
>>257544552
Triforce hunt is easy. ALL THE TEMPLES AT FUCKING SIMPLISTIC. Stay pleb.
>>257544552
>Shortest 3d Zelda
>WAAAAH ITS TO LONG
>>257545692
Then why is it the most boring Zelda game if it's the shortest? Shouldn't that justify higher quality content instead of padding like that?
>>257545910
I finally get to use this image
HELLO I'M THE FACE OF RUSHED DEVELOPMENT
>>257545692
Isn't MM the shortest 3D Zelda?
>>257544552
>Earth and Wind temples
>Annoying and tedious
What?
>>257544552
Earth and Wind Temples are good and frankly you should be at least halfway done with hunting triforce hunting by now.
sage to avoid bumping this shitty thread
>>257546750
If you know what you're doing
>spent several hours each in the two shortest dungeons of the series
Embarrassing.
Also, although I doubt it means much to you at this point, they changed the triforce hunt for the HD version so only three of them require Tingle to translate a map, the other pieces are actually in the chests.
>>257546242
Of course it does. Short games tend to have more interesting content cause they don't add any game padding like fetch quests or parts that require grinding. Take MGR for example. It's a really short but very good game cause they don't add stuff to make the game unncessarily long which means that the content in the game can be well thought out and polished for the best experience. A game that feels like it needs to be long adds arbitrary shit to make the game longer and the finished product usually becomes mediocre in all parts.
Also if it is the shortest, why was there not any mandatory collectathons in either MM nor OOT to finish the game?
>>257546828
I love playing the Command Melody again and again and again and again. Since it was my first time playing of course it's gonna take a while since I wanna explore the entire temple. They just weren't fun or challenging. They were annoying.
>>257547535
Playing musical instruments is the worst thing the N64 Zeldas left us with
>pull open menu
>assign muscial thing to a button
>close menu
>take out thing which pauses the whole world
>the worlds lamest DDR sequence ever
>"YOU PLAYED THE SONG OF GO FUCK YOURSELF"
>Game plays the song you JUST played
>effect actually happens
>repeat since you weren't standing in the right spot to trigger the event
>>257544552
>not playing WW HD that makes the sailing better, assigns the WW to it's own button, reduces the shard hunt, and has touchscreen menu navigation
Seriously, most of the bitching you're having is stuff that was cleaned up in the HD remake.
>>257547873
Earth temple in a fucking nutshell. The one thing that the N64 Zeldas did right was letting you play the song at your own speed. Once you learnt the song you could play it at lightning speeds. With WW it's the same pace all the time. The conducting system was awful.
>>257548351
Yes, I am gonna go buy a WiiU to make a boring game less boring. Great plan. Just cause it got remade doesn't change or justify the flaws the original had.
>>257547127
>Take MGR for example.
No. Don't take MGR for example.
The game isn't short because P+ wanted a concise gaming experience, it's short by virtue of them being rushed to get the game out. It's pretty obvious toward the last third of the game, that and the clunky, shallow and poorly balanced combat which is far from what one would expect from P+.
Also, as much as I love Wind Waker, many would argue that it is short AND padded.
>>257551483
Which is my biggest gripe with the game. It is short AND padded. There shouldn't really be a reason for short games to have obvious filler. The Wind Waker would have been just fine if you could've fought Ganondorf right after the temples but the Triforce shards hunt ruined it for me.
>>257552347
Sorry, I just jumped into the thread without reading the previous posts. Didn't realise you'd already addressed that.
Triforce Hunt. Best part of the game and all games ever tbh.
maybe you just suck
All the GC Zeldas are mediocre except FSA with friends
pic related, a better water themed GameCube game
>>257553713
I never played that. The watergun thing looked gimmicky and the stumpy little tree enemy guys looked gay.
Am I missing out on platforming greatness? Worthy successor to SM64?
>>257553960
No, /v/ only likes Sunshine cause it's underrated.
>>257553960
Not in the slightest
Platforming is a non issue since you have a jetpack, and levels aren't open like 64's "get nearly any star you want" so much as "Get the star WE tell you to, and ONLY that one"
Also, Blue coins cannot be described in how stupid they are
There's tons, but only will appear in certain level missions, in the most obtuse "did you buy the strategy guide?" spots
>>257553960
The watergun isn't really too gimmicky, but only having 7 stages that look the same and forcing you to do the same mission seven times (chasing shadow Mario) makes the game feel more than a bit padded out.
Don't try to 100% it because it's incredibly tedious and you don't get anything for it.
>>257553960
>the stumpy little tree enemy guys looked gay.
What are you, 13?
>>257553960
It's good. Those 'stumpy tree' guys are friendly NPCs and bro tier as fuck, except for Chucksters
It has a good atmosphere and fun levels, though it has problems like Blue Coins and some of the secret levels being absolute BS
>>257554341
It's entirely possible that he was when Sunshine came out
>looked gay
>past tense
>>257553960
If you want a worthy successor to SM64, play Super Mario Galaxy.
>>257554336
You get a different picture in the credits
>>257553713
>>257554451
Actually scratch that, Sunshine and this are better water themed 6th Gen games
They sould've added a fire temple
>>257548556
>game gets made
>has flaws
>people bitch
>10 years later
>game gets remade
>previous flaws are addressed
>people bitch about the 10 year old version's problems
I'm guessing you're emulating it.
>>257554558
Seriously? It looks even worse. Not a fan of wagglan either.
>>257554817
I'd imagine that was planned but cut at some point.
I'm personally hoping that the new Zelda is more creative in terms of dungeon design, though.
>>257554817
But that's what Dragon Roost Cavern was.
>>257544842
It's not a "side quest" if it's mandatory you sperg
>>257554865
Flicking your wrist isn't waggle
>>257548556
>Building is a little rickety
>Rebuilt 10 years later with better materials
>"no fuck that I'm not going in there!"
>>257554782
MFW I lent my copy to a friend and got it back all scratched up.
>>257555069
>rebuilt
More like slapped a new wall and carpet on
>People still haven't learned to never discuss Wind Waker with daytime /v/
Pic related. It's probably what OP actually looks like
>>257555220
Okay, fine.
>Room has ugly carpet and chairs
>Gets renovated, carpet and chairs replaced with newer, comfortable ones
>"eww fuck that I'm not going in there, remember how horrible those chairs were?"
>>257554931
>>257554992
Earth, Wind, and Fire.I was hoping someone would get my shitty joke
>>257555305
Nighttime /v/ ranges from okay to horrible
>>257555393
I'LL BE A SHINING STAR
NO MATTER WHO YOU ARE
>>257555393
Meant for
>>257554969
>mfw I really like the triforce hunt
>>257555382
The exterior got worse and the building wore down with age
>>257555543
Games don't age.
>>257555613
Tell that to the faggots who can't play Zelda 1 and 2
>>257555524
I did too.
I liked treasure hunting and exploring the islands in general.
>>257548351
>reduces the shard hunt
how? I never wasted money on a game I already own so I haven't played wwhd
>>257555706
Exactly, they're faggots. They aren't right. Thanks for coming around
>>257555426
But it's actually able to appreciate video games
>>257555069
>building is 20 floors and just stairs no elevator
>10 years later add an elevator that goes up to floor 5
>"You can't complain about it anymore cause they fixed it!"
>>257555910
So one thread means all of /v/ hates vidya
>>257555947
You can complain but people can call you retarded for it. You don't have to take those stairs anymore. Do you complain that you still have to fucking cross the pacific ocean in a wooden ship when planes exist?
>>257546595
Its a shame. If only the game wasn't so clearly rushed.
Imagine being able to actually explore Hyrule and shit.
let's get this shit started
MM>OoT>WW>SS>TP
>>257555796
In the original, you had to get eight charts, pay Tingle to decipher them, and find the shards.
In WWHD, you only decipher three or four, the other shards are in some dungeons, and you don't need to find a chart for those.
>>257556107
OoT > SS = MM > TP = WW
>>257556107
I can't believe that even to this day there are spergs who don't hold the belief that Skyward Sword is the absolute worst 3D Zelda, out of the main 5.
Why is this, /v/? Could it be that SS is literally the 1st Zelda game for some of these people? Such objectively shit taste, I just don't get it.
>>257556202
>in some dungeons
could you elaborate a little on this? How do you find out where these dungeons are?
>>257556107
Best opinion in this thread.
>>257554252
Fucking this.
I can't take anyone seriously who calls Sunshine better than 64 or Galaxy. They really only claim its best because its the contrarian opinion.
These are the same kinds of people who criticize Galaxy for being too linear, yet call the secret of parts in Sunshine the best part of the game despite Galaxy being nothing but that.
>>257556302
SS was good. You're a humongous faggot.
>>257556304
The In-Credible chart which originally just had the locations for all 8 undeciphered triforce charts now has triforce shards on it instead
>>257556081
It's more like paying thousands of dollars to have the airplane drop you off halfway there in the middle of the pacific ocean and you have to paddle the rest of the distance yourself anyways. The HD version doesn't save it from being boring as hell with it's fixes.
>>257556202
They give you a chart that points you to the location of the dungeons that have the shards and where the charts for the other shards are.
>>257556302
>Could it be that SS is literally the 1st Zelda game for some of these people?
Most likely it. How anyone can find SS to be better than anything is beyond me.
>>257556413
It can be good and still be worse than the other 4. Stop being sop binary.
>>257556591
You can say the same for WW
>>257544552
>not liking the earth temple
>>257556519
Meant for
>>257556304
>>257556532
most likely because they don't have fat flabby arms that are tiresome for them to move
>>257556660
I prefer the Wind temple.
>>257556591
TP was worse than SS. They're both amazing games, but anyone who can honestly say they think TP isn't the worst is fucking wrong
>>257556770
wind temple a dogshit
>>257556824
You and >>257556302 should have a cage match.
>>257556856
all the dungeons in WW are dogshit.
This made it all worth it.
Objectively the best Link.
Objectively the best Ganon
>>257556660
>not liking playing the command melody 1000 times
>not liking fighting enemies you have to cheese like crazy from a distance cause if they catch you you have to backtrack several areas to get back
>not liking easy as hell puzzles that becomes a drag because you need to control Medli at the same time with the Wind Waker
>>257557139
Best Link is SS since the entire series relies on him
Best Ganon is either based Pig Ganon or OOT
>>257557139
Best Link is NES Link, best Ganon is LttP because he wasn't a fucking quicktime event
>>257557294
>Best Link is SS since the entire series relies on him
Stupid shit like this is why I hate prequels
>>257557139
>Forgetting objectively best Zelda
>>257557549
Stupid shits like you are the reason i lost faith in humanity.Just kiddin' mate, you wanne hang our and do some grown up stuff?
>>257557643
yes that zelda with no character
>>257557709
We weren't talking about TP. WW was the first real attempt to give Zelda character. Sadly it was lost on people who couldn't actually pay attention to what was going on
>>257557708
No, but seriously. For a while the Hero of Time was seen as the first and ultimate Link but now SS comes along and is now the best by default? That's fucking stupid
>>257557973
Ocarina of time Adult Link would beat SS Pussy faggot Link in a fight.
>>257558112
Most links would beat SS Link since all he can't do anything more complex than a diagonal slash
>>257557973
He killed a demigod, created Hyrule, essentially made the Sacred Realm, and got a reincarnated goddess as a gf
>>257555062
It still should've been mapped to a button because of how shitty and inconsistent the wii's motion controls are.
>>257558216
Vertical spin attacks
>>257558231
>he can't press down on the D-pad
>>257558228
I don't find beating Demise to be impressive. Just because the game tells me he's tough I don't have to actually buy it.
Killing Ganondorf is more impressive due to him actually having the Triforce and his habit of coming back from the dead
>>257558491
He has attacks that take out like 5 hearts
>>257557973
So you don't wanne hang out? Just say it dude :\
>>257558573
So does Ganon
>There are people who don't think TP Link is the superior combatant
>>257557873
it wasn't hard to follow tetra. but tetra isn't zelda. not in terms of character, unless you are willing to retract your retarded statement and affirm that sheik was the first attempt instead to give zelda character.
>>257544552
>Wind Waker fags will defend this.
I've beaten the game multiple times.
I've collected all the heart pieces, and explored the entire map.
I collected a fair amount of figurines.
And yet, whenever I say how tedious the Wind and Earth temples are, I always hear the same defense.
>Hurr, you must have ADHD.
>It's not tedious!
>Rupees are easy to get!
>They fixed it in the decade old patch! All you have to do is shell out 50 bucks for a new copy!
>Link's boypussy makes up for all the cut content!
>[denial][denial][denial][denial]
That's funny OP. Exactly where I lost interest when I played a long time ago. I was just least interested in sailing.
I'd like to give it another try though, that was three or so years ago.
>>257559082
His best moves were learned from OoT Link and he lacks magic
The best fighter Link is SC2 Link which is likely MM Link all grown up
>>257559289
Having different opinions isn't denial
>>257559150
Sheik didn't have much of a personality, but Zelda is still certainly Tetra. Like I said most simply didn't pay attention
>>257559615
>Having different opinions isn't denial
It's denial to think that your opinion that it's not tedious, nullifies my opinion that it is tedious.
>>257559289
I don't really know how Dungeons can take such a huge step back. They're so homogenized, nondescript and bland in wind waker. Ocarina had creative dungeons which played a lot with what it meant to have a zelda game in a 3D space, although whenever it defaulted to find the eye switch to shoot puzzles it was a lot less interesting.
Majora's Mask however rectified this with multi-layered puzzles, having dungeons based around an entire core design mechanics which changed the way dungeons played our drastically and created an interesting level of progression where you could visibly see how your changes in the environment reflected your progress in the dungeon.
>>257559615
sorry, but a wink doesn't rectify the playful, head-strong pirate becoming a near-mute cliche for over half the game just 'cuz nintendo forgot what they were going for.
She literally had 0 presence after the half way point in the game. Any character she had is thrown out. Her winking at you at the end was just Nintendo remembering "oh wait, we had a character underneath that."
Yeah, they dropped the ball hard.
>>257560009
No 3D Zelda will ever have OoT's dungeons again, but WW's were certainly better than the ones in MM. Too few of them and only getting arrow upgrades was disappointing
>sorry, but a wink doesn't rectify the playful, head-strong pirate becoming a near-mute cliche for over half the game just 'cuz nintendo forgot what they were going for.
Again, You didn't pay attention. Being off-screen isn't the same as being mute. Much of Tetra's time in the first half is spent off screen as well.
When you finally meet up with her again she makes a lot of the same remarks and facial expressions she made as Tetra. Ganondorf even remarks that as Zelda her dreams were still all about oceans and shit.
>>257560009
>They're so homogenized, nondescript and bland in wind waker...
Hey man, I think the dungeons are tedious. But I have to say you're full of crap. If there was anything the Wind Waker dungeons had, it was personality.
For 1, it ws the first Zelda game that had dungeons revolving around two separate controllable characters working in conjunction.
2. It had a bunch of vertical elements, like the giant fan room.
And 3. You could visibly see how you progressed, with the one temple you got to see how light would travel between rooms, ultimately shining light in the direction you needed. The more to progressed, the more light you would see throughout.
>>257560502
I paid plenty of attention. She lacks any significant personality after she lost her presence. Every time she appeared before she became Zelda she was a significant character which scenes revolved around. Her lack of presence was a bad choice in retaining her character, because the few scenes she has past that are her surprise she's a princess and suddenly acts like one, and then when she uses a bow at the very end. Not really interesting.
>No 3D Zelda will ever have OoT's dungeons again, but WW's were certainly better than the ones in MM. Too few of them and only getting arrow upgrades was disappointing
WW's dungeons were terrible. MM had fantastic level design that relied on much more than finding the goody and using it, and actually realizing the importance of 3D spaces, how they can be manipulated, and giving the player control over these elements to enable creative puzzle solving.
>>257560729
MM experimented with having two characters controllable at once, Wind Waker explored that concept a little bit by having a reskin of another character you can play as except one had a planting mechanic and the other could reflect light. The latter of which felt like a major retread of the spirit temple. Shameless.
>2. It had a bunch of vertical elements, like the giant fan room.
not so much. There was a bit of verticality, but most of the time, verticality was used to advance horizontally. The giant fan was kind of nice although it was a bit under utilized. WW lacking any meaningful secrets in dungeons was kind of sad, because that is where the advanced design concepts really bloomed from, the optional bits.
>And 3. You could visibly see how you progressed, with the one temple you got to see how light would travel between rooms, ultimately shining light in the direction you needed. The more to progressed, the more light you would see throughout.
in one dungeon, and it was one of the most tedious dungeons in the game.
The only WW dungeon I enjoyed was the Tower of the Gods but even then it was only like three floors total
Earth Temple had good aesthetics but should've expanded on the catacombs aspect
>>257561438
yeah the tower of gods wasn't much of a tower, really shit design there with such an easy concept to pull off
>>257561175
>She lacks any significant personality after she lost her presence.
Again, her being off-screen is not the same as her being on screen and being bland. She didn't have much screentime but certainly did well with the time she had. We certainly didn't need her doing what Midna did in TP and hijacking the story. The adventure should still focus on Link
> Every time she appeared before she became Zelda she was a significant character which scenes revolved around. Her lack of presence was a bad choice in retaining her character, because the few scenes she has past that are her surprise she's a princess and suddenly acts like one, and then when she uses a bow at the very end. Not really interesting.
Her signifigance was that Link needed her to finally beat Ganon because he couldn't fight him alone. Especially noteworthy as it was the first time a Zelda had done something like that
The events she went through as Zelda are what pushed her to search for New Hyrule in the DS titles
>>257561175
>MM experimented with having two characters controllable at once...
I've reached a point, where all I can say is "nuh-uh". So we're just going to have to disagree from this point. It sounds to me like you're forming your opinion off some arbitrarily placed value I'm not privy to.
>>257561945
Not him but Kafei
>>257544552
>second half of the game
>can do shit in any order
>Either Temple, or triforce shards
>can search for shards before and inbetween temples
>dat exploration
>both temples are blocked, you dont know what you need to gain entrance, or where to go to get those things
>you yourself have to find the hints, explore, discover in order to attain them and gain access to the next two dungeons in any order you desire
>A key item needed to progress along this is hidden in an area that is only accessible after fighting an 'optional' boss.
>tons of sidequests and things to discover along the way
>hidden grottos are actually more than holes in the ground sometimes
>secrets, treasure everywhere
>Hero mode makes the game actually challenging now
>HD edition is fun- the triforce hunt remains but the tedium is gone now.
Wind Wakers second half was glorious and more Zelda games need to be like it.
>>257562312
I love WW, but Makar won't appear until you do the Earth Temple
>playing through the wind temple late at night after a busy day
>get to the boss door
>realize I didn't get the boss key
>have to backtrack and fight all the enemies to that area with the boss key
>have to fight those enemies again and do that shitty block puzzle again
Does the game tell you to go get the key after freeing Makar or do you have to remember to get it?sorry for the shit meme, but it was honestly how I felt
>>257561945
I guess you didn't play the kafei and anju sidequest, so it's safe to say your lack of experience has rendered your input irrelevant.
>>257561709
>Again, her being off-screen is not the same as her being on screen and being bland. She didn't have much screentime but certainly did well with the time she had. We certainly didn't need her doing what Midna did in TP and hijacking the story. The adventure should still focus on Link
her brief time onscreen as zelda left the impression she lost her character. This is a really obvious observation everyone can easily make once you see the scene where she's brought to hyrule. Your expectations of her reaction to being discovered as a princess, and being told to stay in place and actually listening is really disconnecting from your perception of her as a character.
This is a clear failure of characterization. They built a sound, interesting character, and neglected her because the game was obviously rushed. It wouldn't surprise me if they wanted to incorporate her into scenarios in the game later on outside of just the final boss.
>Her signifigance was that Link needed her to finally beat Ganon because he couldn't fight him alone. Especially noteworthy as it was the first time a Zelda had done something like that
yes this was realized in a predictable way. Would be nice if she wasn't just tossed into the closet and sat there like a good little girl like she obviously wasn't fleshed out to be.
>The events she went through as Zelda are what pushed her to search for New Hyrule in the DS titles
we're talking wind waker, the sequels/spinoffs don't really matter.
>>257562286
Oh, no, I already considered Kafei. And the Elegy of Emptiness as well.
But where i disagree, is that MM gets credit for implimenting those aspects in their dungeon. And then when WW does an expanded version, suddenly, it's of little to no value. What?
>>257562515
thats complete bullshit anon. I have done Wind Temple before the Earth temple several times before. You can do them in either order.
>>257562526
you have to remember to get it.
>>257562540
>I guess you didn't play the kafei and anju sidequest, so it's safe to say your lack of experience has rendered your input irrelevant.
See >>257562552
>>257562552
what do you think "experimented" with means??
>>257562628
You cant
Unless they changed it for HD
Worst 3D Zelda but it gets a pass because it's got good graphics and all the gamecube kiddies are old enough to start posting on /v/
>>257561709
I just want it explained: what the fuck happened when she disapeared. Why the hell is she suddenly corporal again when you fight Ganondorf.
Why has Ganondorf just sat in the castle like a bitch and not done anything to fight back at all. Its hard to feel like this is evil to be stopped when the castle town is bustling and happy like always and ganon is just chilling.
I enjoyed Triforce hunting.
>>257562795
It means, MM experimented with the concept? I'm not sure what you're getting at.
When you read his entire paragraph.(and not just the once sentence I quoted) He's pretty much saying "MM did it first, and in WW is wasn't really that good." I don't understand why he can't give WW credit for utilizing that concept. Instead of diminishing it, by saying it's a retread of the spirit temple. When just by having the dual characters withe reflectors, it brought the spirit temple concept to a whole new level.
I mean, it was still tedious as shit. But I have to give them credit for expanding on an interesting idea.
>>257545910
It's the shortest. It's just that it's so boring it feels like an eternity.
>>257562969
I have done it in both the original and in the HD version. The game even highlights both squares on the sea chart for you.
fuck if you really wanted to, you could do half of wind, say fuck it, go get medli and shit, then do half of earth.
Hell, one playthrough, I got both Medli and Makar on the boat at the same time just to see if it was possible. And that was on original gamecube wind waker.
You remind me of those people who still claimed that you couldnt do the adult temples in several different orders in OOT and that it was a change made to the 3ds version, when in reality it was there the whole time.
>>257563453
Because in MM it was seamless and part of a mini dungeon
WW has you playing the Command song over and over before swapping back to Link and grabbing your companion before repeating
>>257562540
>her brief time onscreen as zelda left the impression she lost her character.
And this is where I go back to saying that happened because people didn't pay attention. Her character is still definitely there. You just have to notice the subtle hints because the situation is too serious for ner normally fiery demeanor
>Your expectations of her reaction to being discovered as a princess, and being told to stay in place and actually listening is really disconnecting from your perception of her as a character.
It's hardly unreasonable for her to be confused at what was going on. Even the developers themselves stated this
>They built a sound, interesting character, and neglected her because the game was obviously rushed. It wouldn't surprise me if they wanted to incorporate her into scenarios in the game later on outside of just the final boss.
Probably, but from what I saw I'm more than satisfied. That boss added a lot. Unrelated, but I probably would've liked SS Zelda a lot more if she had done the same thing
>we're talking wind waker, the sequels/spinoffs don't really matter.
Wind Waker's ending states her intention to search for a new land. The sequels simply expand on it
>>257563453
Yes, they expanded on it, but their expansion was poorly handled. It didn't feel fluid, it felt forced. The lights and reflectors in the dungeons felt very arbitrary, rooms felt too puzzle centric and their solutions immediately obvious, merely tedious to complete them.
Did I not say Wind Waker expanded on it? I did. In Wind Waker it was slow and annoying. MM just toyed with the idea and it was of no harm, and even a little interesting to play as someone else.
>>257554558
Fuck no, galaxy platforming was slow as shit and the levels were all straight forward and linear
>>257563459
The Deku Tree mentions that Makar isn't around pre Earth Temple
>>257564062
>Complaining about a platformer being linear
>>257544552
>complain that you have to do stuff in the game
>would complain if content was cut or $60 12 hour game
You faggots don't know what you want
>>257564157
SM64 wasn't linear, and he was addressing somebody who said Galaxy was a good successor.
>>257563891
Because that companion was doing more than pushing blocks
>>257564018
>It's hardly unreasonable for her to be confused at what was going on. Even the developers themselves stated this
it's absolutely boring and an unfulfilling role for the character to fit in. It doesn't work with her demeanor, she always set herself up as someone who does what she wants whenever she wants to, regardless of what is going on around her. It's this way from the moment she regains consciousness in the forest at the beginning of the game.
But because her skin color, clothing, and name changes she suddenly loses all of that. Tetra would say "screw that, I'm not sitting around here doing nothing. Link, me and my pirates are coming with you, we'll help with triforce hunting and dungeoneering!"
Zelda could have been a rock wearing a dress with a triangle scribbled onto its side and it would have fulfilled the same role.
Except instead of shooting light arrows it could just throw itself at ganon.
>Wind Waker's ending states her intention to search for a new land. The sequels simply expand on it
yep
>>257564157
Well considering that the previous two weren't linear
>>257563459
you're full of shit
>>257564468
It's alright to depart from conventions. I don't see how it hurts galaxy. It's just designed differently. Super Mario Sunshine also departed from 64's conventions by having only one world aesthetics and really boring platforming that was so easy it was practically a chore.
But some folks still like it or something.
>>257563891
Yes, that's one of the reasons that made those dungeons so tedious. However, the concept is solid. If only they had a faster way to transition between characters, it would have improved the experience greatly.
>>257564052
>The lights and reflectors in the dungeons felt very arbitrary, rooms felt too puzzle centric and their solutions immediately obvious
That's where I disagree.
The reflectors were placed in interesting areas that made the player think, or hard areas that challenged the player to actually reach them.
There is nothing in a dungeon that could ever be considered "too puzzle centric", unless you're referring to combat. Which we're not in this instance.
>>257564468
Galaxy levels were linear, but it let you choose planets to explore
Sunshine levels mainly were linear, only allowing you to do one mission per level, while 64 just let you go where ever assuming you have enough stars
>>257556107
TP is better than OoT after the first few hours.
>>257564406
>It doesn't work with her demeanor, she always set herself up as someone who does what she wants whenever she wants to, regardless of what is going on around her.
She also always set herself up as someone who thinks about her actions and doesn't go wild on a whim
>Tetra would say "screw that, I'm not sitting around here doing nothing. Link, me and my pirates are coming with you, we'll help with triforce hunting and dungeoneering!"
And such a character would've been quickly snatched up by Ganondorf in a huge fight and remembered as one of the worst characters in the series
>Zelda could have been a rock wearing a dress with a triangle scribbled onto its side and it would have fulfilled the same role.
Except it was Tetra that also came up with the strategy of deflecting a Light Arrow off of Link's shield to hit Ganon. The type of strategic prowess and precision you would expect from a seasoned pirate over a pampered princess
It's clear you didn't like Wind Waker much, os I understand why you didn't care much about the story, but you need to stop deliberately ignoring key pieces of dialogue and statements from developers just because they don't fit into your generic "rebellious princess" vision
>>257562526
Have you ever played a Zelda game before? The compass should be the first item you get in the Wind Temple, and you should know that the boss key is going to be in the opposite direction of the boss door.
>>257564084
the deku tree says makar isnt around after earth temple too, that is because he is under the waterfall practicing music, like always.
>>257564758
>The reflectors were placed in interesting areas that made the player think, or hard areas that challenged the player to actually reach them.
they didn't. Their purpose and point was obvious, arbitrary ones were clearly sign posted, and critical ones were even clearer (either by being placed there at all, or surrounding details like tracks, alignment of props, or the final piece of the puzzle.
For example, the last light puzzle in the earth temple. It is obvious what you must do. The moment you drop down you see all the mirrors, and it's clear it's another retread of the dungeon mechanic of reflecting light with medli.
Except it goes on for like 10 minutes. 10 unnecessary minutes.
This is the point where I call bullshit on putting puzzling over logistics. It isn't interesting, it isn't practical, and above all from a play stand point, it isn't enjoyable. Switching back and forth, replaying songs, lining up reflections isn't fun at all. It's terrible. Windfall temple had a logical central mechanic that had place and purpose in the dungeon and the world, purifying water, and it was an interesting angle to portray. It also worked fairly well as a puzzle mechanic. Other dungeons didn't need this because their mechanic wasn't so simple.
>And such a character would've been quickly snatched up by Ganondorf in a huge fight and remembered as one of the worst characters in the series
I forgot, wasn't Ganon already fucked up at this point? Pretty sure she wouldn't be captured by someone not in the surface world. That, and even then having encounters with ganon's cronies, whatever they may be could create for some helpful breaks in the tedium of sailing that isn't those shitty sharks, pirate ships, or giant squids.
I don't actively want to dislike games, but it's really hard to like a game with so many glaring flaws.
>>257565571
But he doesn't appear until after the temple is completed
>>257565686
The music notes don't show up until the Earth temple, showing you that he's under the waterfall, but does he not show up? This isn't a rhetorical question, I don't know, never looked.
>>257565839
He doesn't even appear, if I recall
The game intends for you to get Medli and do Earth first
>>257565686
He does, I have done it before. Fuck. Am I going to have to replay the game, make a new damn file, get to that point as fast as possible, just so I can use the pictobox to take a selfie of me in the wind temple without a mirror shield to prove it to you dumbasses?
>>257565839
I dont remember if the notes show up or not, but I know the music of him practicing is still there.
As long as you play the Wind Waker in front of the stone slate in front of the Wind Temple entrance, it will trigger the cutscene with Fado, and after that Makar will be under the waterfall. I dont know if he is not there before doing that cutscene, I have never tried that before.
But like I said, back on gamecube, I replayed the game like 7 times, and one time I got Makar and Medli on the boat at the same time, just to see if it was possibe.
>>257565672
I don't believe you believe what you're saying at this point.
So I guess we're done.
>>257565672
>I forgot, wasn't Ganon already fucked up at this point? Pretty sure she wouldn't be captured by someone not in the surface world.
Ganon left the surface world because he didn't need it anymore now that he knew Zelda's identity. Valoo's fire didn't actually hurt him which is why using her pirate crew to fight him would've also been pretty stupid
>>257566576
that's a really stupid conclusion to come to, but alright, whatever.
>mfw I just found out you can do the OoT temples in a bunch of orders, including Fire -> Forest -> Water -> Spirit -> Shadow
>>257566509
And I'm saying you're wrong, check anywhere you want, it's Earth before Wind, always
>>257566638
OoT temples are pretty open so long as you have the key items you need to access them.
although iirc the long shot is a necessity for the late game temples, so you do need to partially complete some.
>>257566638
Yeah, but dont worry idiots like this>>257566767
will keep saying doing dungeons out of order isn't possible.
Go replay wind waker anon, you can do Wind temple first, unlike what these idiots seem to believe.
>>257566638
Deku Tree
Jabu Jabu
Dodongo's
Fire
Forest
Water
Spirit/Shadow
Ganon
>>257566893
non-linearity between just two points isn't that interesting regardless.
>>257566893
I'm saying you can't do it in WW, I never said it was impossible in other games
>>257544842
>mind-numbingly, boringly easy
People say this, and it's true, but it applies to every 3D zelda game.
Also, hero mode in the HD version turns it into what is by far the most difficult 3D Zelda.
>>257567187
eh, wind waker isn't really hard. I played through hd with the hero mode on. It was a bit rough at first but nothing horrible after you get a bottle.
>>257566975
The real non-linearity is in how the Triforce Charts can be tackled. You can have three before they're even established as a plot point
>>257567187
That's not OoT Master Quest
>>257544552
stop being a scrub
I just played and beat this game for the first time the other day, trying to go back and play all the Zelda games I missed.
Anyway, Wind Waker is just an alright game. I played the older version on Dolphin and some of the mechanics are clunky as hell, switching wind direction, having to constantly play songs to warp around, fishing up treasure, etc. Some of the quests aren't explained at all or are too well hidden. In the end I had to look a few things up, including the locations of the triforce pieces (got all the charts legit). Even then fishing them up was a nightmare, the pillars of light vanish way too quickly leaving you to sail around and randomly try and fish them up based on how loud the sound is. It was a relief to beat the damn thing when I eventually got to the end.
>>257566975
whats interesting is that you can explore shit without being forced down a path like in TP or SS.
Take my first time ever playing OOT for example, Everyone says go to the forest. But I wanted to explore. I go to kakariko, decide to check on the gorons. Holy shit, the gorons are fucked. I save them, getting cutscenes, a full dungeon, and a boss fight along the way. Before I know it I rescued a sage and was progressing the main story.
It was glorious. I wasnt there because the game told me to. I was there because I chose too. That makes a massive difference in how much the game feels like an adventure.
>>257567132
Dude, I do it all the time. Try it yourself, you will be surprised.
The swift sail was great
Enemy immunity upon knock-down was shit
The final battle was utterly boring, disappointing, and mostly passive
>>257567490
Lying on an anonymous image board is shameful
>>257567608
>The final battle was utterly boring, disappointing, and mostly passive
You did it wrong
>>257567309
but that's not interesting non-linearity. It's really hard to enjoy the most boring part of a game when it's forced on you so hard, so taking part in it by choice isn't something to really want to do.
sequence breaking in OoT however, by the rules of the game no less, where you visit different locales and experience different parts of the game and its game play is awfully exciting.
>>257567490
yes, I absolutely agree with you. The game suggest and insinuates for balance reasons, but it's awfully exciting to just go wherever you please and really feel like you're taking part in the world.
>>257567704
Getting the Triforce Charts is fun. Especially in the Oasis and the Savage Labyrinth
>>257567314
Master Quest isn't hard. It's just a romhack of OoT, like Majora's Mask.
>>257568006
And Hero Mode isn't how?
>>257567660
Let me clear up some misconceptions. Not that guy, but I am a speed runner.
Wind Waker Wind Temple CAN be done first, WITHOUT glitches, but Makar does not appear unless you already did the Laruto tablet cutscene.
So, in order to do the wind temple first, You would have to get both the Iron boots and the bracelet, lift the entrances to both temples, and learn the song from both tablets.
Then Makar should be available.
Speedrunners never do this because it adds a bunch of extra time to a run and is not efficient. But yes, it is possible to do Wind Temple first.
>>257568237
>>257568237
>mfw I have to replay Wind Waker now just to verify this
Still skeptical
>>257568237
That shouldn't work, since Medli is needed to get the partially activated Master Sword, beating it with Makar first using cheats automatically grants the full sword
>>257568237
does WW not have speedrun glitches like OoT where you can skip significant portions of the game?
>>257568793
there is this one cool one that lets link fly/run at super sanic speeds across the ocean without needing a boat.
>>257568753
I do not know the specifics of your cheat, but doing Wind Temple first in the way I described will partially power the master sword, and then earth temple will fully power master sword.
>>257544552
Why didn't you play the HD version? There's no chart bullshit in there.
>>257554451
>bro tier as fuck
So you pretend to be friends with video game characters?
>>257569313
They give you free shades and Hawaiian shirts
>>257569070
Cause I don't have the money to buy a WiiU and WW HD
>>257568237
Nope. I just tried this a couple of weeks ago because I was curious. After getting the fire/ice arrows, I just went and did both islands and learned both songs, and I still had to get Medli first.
Also, how/where does the game point you towards the ice and fire islands after you get the arrows? I was playing through, and the only reason I knew to go to those two islands to progress was because I've played the game before. Did I miss an NPC leading me by the nose to my next objective, or is this just an instance of old school-style "figure it out youself" ethics?
>>257568237
I actually recall doing this in the GC version.
>>257568753
Not that anon. But I speculate that it's possible, whoever wrote the cheat didn't fully understand the trigger to get Makar to appear, and assumed that the player had to trigger Meldi's mastersword sequence in order to do so. But the cheat doesn't actually mark the point where you actually get the mastersword upgrade.
So when you get to Makar's masterword sequence, the game thinks you already did Medli's sequence, it assumes you need the fully upgraded sword, so it gives it to you. And then when you go back to do Medli's the sequence is triggered "naturally", so you watch it normally. And then the game sees you already didn't Makar's sequence, so it gives you the fully upgraded sword again.
A bit convoluted, but not impossible.
>>257569529
figure it out yourself. If you use bait on a fish outside of the mother and child isles, she will say you can only get in there with the power of cyclones, and fish near where cyclos spawns will say he controls tornados or something, but its classic "here is pieces, put it together yourself" style which I love.
Strange you had to get medli first though anon. I had both Makar and medli on my boat several times.
>>257569754
I was playing in HD. I wonder if they changed it?
>>257569837
nope. It was the same way back then too. Second half of wind waker is great and more Zelda games should be like it.
>>257569529
I think the game assumes you've seen the volcano island and you just need to remember where to go
>>257569690
But if you use the cheat and do Makar first you can skip straight to Hyrule
>>257570137
>game assumes you remember where to go
That was a wonderful and glorious assumption to make. No wonder people hate the second half of Wind Waker. They're retarded.
>>257570295
I've been saying this for years
>>257569754
I forgot about the fishes you have to feed with bait. That system was terrible. How many areas were there on the world map and you could only unlock them one at a time on the map. Another thing to drag the game out like hell compared to the other 3D Zeldas
>>257570362
>Stop asking me to explore
>>257568642
I did this by chance the first time, mostly because i got sidetracked all the time and did other shit.
>>257567187
That's a load of crap. WWHD hero mode is practically as easy as the base game past Dragon Roost because you immediately get a couple bottles and the game's dungeons have guaranteed fairy spawns.
OoT 3D is the hardest because some bosses do 8 hearts of damage and occasionally hit you, unlike Wind Waker.
>>257570295
Elaborate? Having to rely on memory isn't always the best way to get the player to progress through the game. If they stopped playing for a few weeks or months it kinda falls apart
>>257570689
>OoT 3D is the hardest because some bosses do 8 hearts of damage and occasionally hit you, unlike Wind Waker.
By that point you also have tons of potions and fairies.
>>257570137
>But if you use the cheat and do Makar first you can skip straight to Hyrule
That in line with the scenario I explained.
>>257570718
Then it still isn't impossible to figure out by trial and error. You have fire and ice arrows. There are two islands enshrouded by ice and fire that you cannot enter. It ain't rocket science.
>>257570629
explore =/= doing the same thing 49 times at different locations
>>257571004
It's not forced on you.
>>257570689
I thought Hero mode was advertised as not having heart or fairy drops.
>>257570974
Yes but if the player can't remember where they are, either due to not discovering them yet or not marking them on the map because of no bait, then there's no way to find them without searching every corner of the map
>>257544842
>mandatory side quests
>>257571073
Just because it isn't forced doesn't excuse it being a fucking drag to do. But I guess it pads the game out a bit more so I guess they got what they wanted
The overworld was the water temple.
>>257570689
Hero mode enemies are also more aggressive, block more, and similar shit.
For example, Moblins can block, have a counter attack (during which you only have half a second to raise your shield or you will lose 2 and a half hearts) and several other means of attacking.
Ganondorf Hero mode feels completely reworked. He does 2 hearts minimum, certain attacks cannot be blocked (they will knock you down and leave you open to the next attack if you try) So to be successful, you either need to stack several fairies and potions, or know which moves to block against, which to dodge against, and when to be in range for the counter attack.
Some of his attacks will do 4-6 hearts too, which he can do in rapid succession.
Definitely a solid challenge increase. At the very least, potions/fairies feel like something that is needed now, rather than a waste of space.
>>257570960
Still harder than the Wind Waker. Fairies and potions aren't located in respawning pots next to the boss door like in The Wind Waker.
>>257571154
Hearts, no. Fairies, very yes.
>>257544842
those mandatory side quests put my sides into orbit.
>>257566893
But the stupid ass mojo shit isn't accessible UNTIL you've finished the earth temple
>>257544552
It's called a "Casual Gate" for a reason. You were never worthy of the fucking amazing ending anyway.
>>257571556
I remember Ganon's Castle having its own room of potion merchants and fairies.
Closing in on Forsaken Fortress ready to test this Wind Temple rumor
>>257572339
Nigga, what? In OoT? Are you avin a giggle?
>>257572543
>I never used the eye of truth
>>257572659
Post pics
>>257572743
I don't have any but use the eye of truth in the central room of the castle where the barrier is. You'll find it
>>257572524
thank you. Make sure you try it in every possible way- makar first, then wind tablet- maybe makar, then both tablets, makar, then both tablets, pick up medli, makar, then both tablets, pick up and drop off medli, immediately leave earth temple, then go see makar.
Lets debunk this rumor from all possible angles.
>>257573118
I will. Just got the Skull Hammer
>>257573058
I actually never knew about this and I have been playing OOT atleast once every year for 12 years
About to fight the Helmaroc King
>>257544552
>waaah i hate adventuring in adventure games
Kill yourself.
>>257573058
>>257574126
Is this only in 3DS?
>>257574702
Original too
>>257574702
I have known about it since 1999
So no.
>>257574950
>>257575032
Fucking OOT has so many secrets
The bird is dead
>>257544552
I've played that game up to that point 3 times, OP. We all know it singlehandedly ruined an otherwise great game.
>tfw I normally love these cutscenes, but being in a hurry won't let me enjoy them
Wind Waker is not a game meant to be rushed through
>>257576000
Except for the people who actually had the balls to complete it
>>257576172
>implying it takes balls to do
>>257576403
>>257576403
Apparently since so many people quit
>>257576172
I've completed it 5 times already. I never play WW any more.
>>257544842
It's the feel of exploration and adventure on the open sea, which I hated as a kid, because I loved hoofing it in ocarina. But looking back on it, sea exploration had its moments
>>257576652
>I hate this game, but I beat it five times
>Not doing the triforce hunt for in an hour on your first try
All you need to do is look at some charts and have some common sense.
>>257546595
>rushed
I had no idea, I never felt that any part of the looked rushed while I was playing through it, but I guess if they had more time. They would have added another dungeon for the nayru's pearl.
>>257577247
I'd play it more, but that part is sickening.
>>257567690
>The final battle was utterly boring, disappointing, and mostly passive
Are you fags still talking about Super Mario Sunshine?
>>257577186
You know what game does it better?Treasure Adventure Game
>>257556107
MM > SS > TP = OoT >>>>>>>>> WW.
Alright, Zelda's been locked up which means it's time to get to work
