>tfw your main sucks now
thanks sakurai
we still have Lucina bro
Why are people saying Marth sucks? He looks just like he does in the other games.
Seemed fine when I used him. Like always, Marth's strengths and weaknesses have swapped around and so has the game around him. He lost shit, gained other shit, and is still good.
The same shit happened in Brawl, and he was still high tier.
>>254449129
He will never be as good as he was in melee.
Your mains don't suck. You suck.
I've beaten just about every character, both human and CPU-controlled (at the highest difficulty) as Jigglypuff.
I worry about Olimar. Sure, his recovery is amazing, but unless the Pikmin are powered up he's limited much more than he was in Brawl.
>>254449454
>CPU-controlled (at the highest difficulty)
Is this suppose to be hard?
>>254449228
That doesn't bother me. He was good in Brawl too.
>>254448128
>tfw your main isn't confirmed
Welcome to the club
>tfw link main
>>254448128
Marth doesn't suck. He is better than Lucina but requires more skill to use.
>>254449919
Polar bears are in Smash Run, they'll be in don't worry.
>TFW your main is now Top Tier
Who /poyo/ here?
>>254450120
Yeah just like how Marshal/Chorus Kids are confirmed, right
>>254449129
landing lag or something like that
>>254450126
Kirby still has approach problems. Even looking back at the Invitational Finals, HBox wasn't able to close the gap between him and Zero without the laser whip interfering.
He's no doubt better than he was in Brawl, but I doubt Kirby will ever be as good as he was in 64.
>>254450376
Who says they won't be in either?
>>254449216
>The same shit happened in Brawl, and he was still high tier.
Still nowhere near the character he used to be. The fact that a Marth never won a single major tournament in Brawl says enough about it.
>>254449454
Jiggly Puff is top tier you fucking faggot
>>254450427
Isn't that a universal problem, though? So relative to the other characters he shouldn't suck any more than before. And aren't people saying they reduced the landing lag since E3 based on the Robin trailer?
>Kirby won't ever be as good as he was in Smash64
Why must it be so, /v/?
>>254448128
Ken said he's nowhere as strong in the invitational, but they could greatly buff him since they're were taking lots of feedback feedback.
>>254450618
All that says is how broken Metaknight is
>>254450779
>feedback feedback
heheh
>>254448128
Better start getting used to low-tier.
Or you can always switch to vagina.
>>254450852
The gap between Diddy and Marth is astounding, I assume.
Link has always been shit but you don't hear me complain.
You know what you do? You stay true with your main and make the most out of him instead of crying.
>>254448128
>Maining Marth
what's it like being a faggot.
>>254451258
But she seems worse. There's no way her whole sword is tip-strength, it's got to be a bit weaker.
>>254450728
No, certain characters have it more than others. Lucina's was very akin to Roy's in Melee, Marth's is even slower than it was in Brawl based on the BestBuy demo.
>>254450728
No, the Landing lag was picked and chosen for each move for each character. Every move marth has has extreme landing lag no matter how well you time it.
>>254451468
An entire sword is generally stronger than the tip of a sword.
>>254451470
>>254451567
Oh. Well that is a problem...
>tfw my main will be getting special treatment
Thanks sakurai
>>254451069
lol whoops, that's what happens when you're running on 3 hours of sleep
IMMA PLAY PACMAN NIGGA
PACMAN
LIKE THATS OG MAN
>>254451567
http://youtu.be/e0ej06eP_uY
More people should watch these VGBootCamp videos.
>>254451468
Who knows at this point.
Her speed looks faster and her hitbox being smaller could have a lot of unforseen-advantages.
Oh no now you actually have to try as Marth
>>254451959
>>254451959
You always did, he's never been anywhere near as broken as ppl give him credit for
>>254451808
His sword seems so short
>>254451808
He still has landing lag on a good majority of his moves, as well as his speed being downed from lightweight to middleweight.
>tfw everyone sleeping on your main
>>254451831
Not to mention the differences in frames, and the fact that Sakurai went to enough trouble to actually make her own character because of the different ways they use Falchion says a lot. She could be faster, but weaker. She could be exactly the same. She could be faster and stronger, etc. Way too many variables right now, especially if the competitive scene decides it wants to adopt custom movesets (Which I'm sure they will).
>>254452043
>has always been top 5 in the tier lists
>>254452246
I'm guessing they'll have different brackets for default moveset and custom moveset.
>tfw your main got a buff and shows up in high tiers in many early analysis articles
>>254452362
That'd be a bit much. They'll probably have one bracket that involves the custom movesets, but I could see certain combinations of them being banned or unfavorable to say the least.
>>254451808
That gameplay against the lvl9 fox looks so boring
>>254452094
Lag seems to be a universal thing. The game could really use a reduction in it across the board. Outside of that the game is looking solid. The only other issue I have is characters are living a bit too long
Samus sucks?
>>254452508
Mostly because the Marth guy was trying to grab Fox, but the CPU knows better than to get grabbed.
On the plus side, Marth's Counter scales pretty nicely.
http://youtu.be/-ckQpLAsX3s
>tfw you don't have a main yet because you haven't played around with Smash 4 characters and decided on which one you like the best
64: Kirby, Link
Melee: Marth
Brawl: Marth, G&W, TL
4: ????????????
>>254452361
And yet he wins no major tournaments outside of m2k, who is just insanely good at Melee. He's been singlehandedly holding Marth up high in Melee. Mark my words, in the next tier list he's going to fall.
>having a main
What's it like to be a basement dwelling fag with no friends?
>>254452638
What kind of balancing is that
>>254452647
64:Link
Melee:Yoshi/DK/Ganon
Brawl: Yoshi/DK/Dedede
4: most likely yoshi/dk/ganon(if he makes it in)
>>254452537
I don't disagree with the lag thing, Lucina seems to be the only character not really effected by it, but you can only tell so much from trailers. Lucina has some very good landing cancels, and seems to be slightly faster than Marth, but not by much.
The issue with characters living too long is probably whats going to cause people go to back to Melee for EVO. I like Melee, but I would rather see something fresh honestly, trying to see them adapt more to how it is now, with all the new characters, get some variety in there at least.
But it is what it is, it wont detract from my enjoyment out of it.
>>254451779
WE PACMAN. CAN'T FUCK WITH US NIGGAS.Unless Bandana Dee gets in.
>>254452886
What's it like being a nigger? Do people hate you?
>>254452935
>thinking Ganondorf won't be in
You're retarded as the people who thought Falcon wasn't coming back.
>>254448128
twf when your main isn't shit anymore
>>254452886
Believe me when I say I'm a "jack of all trades" or Red Mage type. I always play a large variety of characters but I'm not truly great with any one. But don't you have at least one character that you gravitate to, even if it's just because you're a fan and forgetting tiers?
>>254453151
Al least there are people around to hate me, when was the last time you saw a human that was not your mom?
>>254448128
>tfw Zelda is exactly the same, but without the useless waste of a special attack
thanks sakurai, for reals
>>254453368
3 hours ago.
>yfw Link, Falcon and Gdorf are top tier in Kerfuffle
>>254453342
I don't want to have an autism competition, I want to have a brawl, or a melee, or a smash.cwotididtheir
Talent is cooler than skill by miles
>>254453492
>losing the best move in melee
>losing a decent move in brawl
>gets some shitty stand knockoff
>>254453661
>Link
>Top tier
I want to believe Anon, I really do, but he's too busy plowing all our waifus instead of gitting gud.
>>254453492
How awful is it to be a Zelda main, anon? I'm a Falcon/Sheik guy, so I've had my time in the spotlight, but it seems like Zelda is forever cursed to be worthless. How do you think this could be fixed?
>>254453283
Amen, brother
I was never really one to main characters, since I usually just play casually and picked at random pretty often, but I played a lotta Diddy in Brawl, he was pretty cool.
Not sure how much he's changed, though.
>>254453748
nah that's scarflink
>>254453189
It's not that I think he isn't coming back I just hate assuming it instantly so i can be disappointed later.
>>254453593
>responding to that post literary
You are a gibbering anti-social tard aren't you?
I want WFT and Pacman to be top tier, and for Fox to be dead last.
>>254454020
You should want a balanced game, not your own bias.
>>254453368
I moved out of home, so everyday.
>>254453957
>literary
Good job.
>>254454020
its funny how you can tell someone has no idea what they are talking about when they say fox is overpowered
sheik is the real killer
>>254453753
I don't mind that she isn't good, because I think she's just fun to play as. The best thing Sakurai could have done was get rid of that fucking transformation, and that's what he did. Aside from that, making her faster I suppose, it's her biggest weakness, but you can't have everything.
>>254454161
Dante must Die mode
How may of them do you actually speak to that you don't work with/knew form school.
>>254454020
>can't short hop laser
>up-smash is now mediocre kill power
>can't jump out of shine
Fox got smacked with the nerf stick hard
>>254451808
Calvin pls go
>>254454069
I do want a balanced game. I don't expect a balanced game. It's damn hard to balance a game with 5 characters, and SSB4 probably has around 50.
>>254454354
I only knew 1 of the guys i live with, we only went to school together for grade 8.
>>254453283
Samus is still shit simply because of the Other M model.
>>254454683
ACfag, do you have to be this obvious?
will SSB4 have patches for balancing and DLC or does Sakurai plan on making the game whole when its out
>>254454897
will have patch
>>254454897
He won't patch it post-release. Brawl had more glitches than Melee and it still didn't get any patches.
>>254454897
They definitely CAN patch it, but we don't know if they will.
As for DLC, Sakurai's only comment was that he wouldn't start considering it until the game was out, then they'd decided whether or not to do it.
>>254454897
Maybe they'll patch it if there are any gigantic issues but I don't think they'll do like regular fighting games where every few months they change up the particulars of a shit ton of moves.
>>254454683
I would have preferred the Metroid Prime suit but at least it's not the suit from fusion.
>>254449129
His FAIR got nerfed to hell and back with some serious landing lag.
>>254453739
What happened?
>>254455029
How do you know they won't? Do you have a quote from Sakurai saying they won't? They've been doing more internet stuff so I think it's a lot more likely that SSB4 would get balance patches, at least for the WiiU version
>>254454897
SSB4 can have patches. I don't expect it to be balance patches. I'm not really expecting patches at all unless it's a big game breaking bug.
Sakurai said he isn't exactly against DLC(went on to say he liked Fallout 3's dlc), so who knows. He did say that he isn't really going to think about it until after the game is finished.
>>254455029
I don't think think they could patch it though.
>>254455596
>japs playing wrpgs
who would have thought
I wouldn't want them to do a bunch of DLC but I would be totally okay with an inkling as a DLC character. It's a potentially big new Nintendo IP and the timing of it was obviously such that it wouldn't have been able to be considered for Smash 4 when that began development.
>>254455523
She can't transform into Sheik anymore, which was her best move as it made her not Zelda
>>254455535
Nintendo doesn't patch their games unless something game-breaking made it through their bug testing. I don't think Sakurai is the type who cares enough about the tourney scene to rebalance the game after its release, especially since it will take more than a year for the meta to properly develop.
>>254455845
too new, just wait for SSB5. probably the main reason Wonder Red didn't even make it.
>>254455170
>As for DLC, Sakurai's only comment was that he wouldn't start considering it until the game was out, then they'd decided whether or not to do it.
thats vague, probably no
>>254456060
Yeah, that's what I based most of my post on. It was too new to be in consideration, but they could consider for DLC. And as great as W101 is, it's not a Nintendo-developed foray into a new genre for them. Splatoon really does have the chops to be a new staple IP for the company.
>>254455769
Skyrim was huge in Japan, y'know. They love bethesda, apparently.
>>254453703
I have never in my life played Smash competitively, but there's nothing autistic about having a favorite character and playing as them the most.
Faggot.
>>254456342
my bet is playable in SSB5 if Splatoon's a success, Assist Trophy in SSB5 otherwise.
>>254456395
Skyrim's Jap dub is probably second-best after Russian.
>>254455884
maybe you should research before you speak
http://nintendoeverything.com/sakurai-on-how-smash-bros-wii-u3ds-came-to-be-not-opposed-to-dlc-patching-why-villagertrainer-are-in-more/
>Sakurai on patches for the new Smash Bros gamesâĤ It is difficult to say at present, but rather obviously, we always try to keep the best balance. Nevertheless, I do not yet know if it will be really easy to patch these games once they will be released.
>For example: you have a person with a patched version of the game, and another with a non-patched version. If these two people play together, do they meet no problems? We will have to do extensive research about it.
>That said, I think the patches are an important tool to maintain the balance of a game, once this last released. As you surely already know, the reputation of some characters, who are considered weak or powerful, is something to which players are very interested on the internet.
>And sometimes, you have to ask if these perceptions are correct, or if people simply to join a popular opinion and to follow the movement. We really want to make our characters each have their specificities, with statistics that compensate their strengths.
>We want to highlight these individual characteristics, but at the same time, players must also be asked whether they accept the reputation of a character on the internet. This is something that we will also have to take into account when creating patches.
>play mostly yoshi every smash
>absolute favorite move is his upsmash and dash attack because HEAD SLAM
>these are the things changed
T-thanks sakurai for changing those and making yoshi stand like a faggot
I do like the rainbow trail tho
http://youtu.be/MpO3vip5FLY?t=22m44s
Ken did pretty good with him in a 1v1.
>your main gets high praise at E3 at comicon
>Wow, this guy is good now!
>perhaps too good
>oops, maybe we should nerf him before release and buff everyone else
>>254448128
>mfw Marth in SSF2 online this Thursday
>>254456802
>you have a person with a patched version of the game, and another with a non-patched version. If these two people play together, do they meet no problems? We will have to do extensive research about it.
Why the fuck is nintedo so behind on the times
Has he never played an online game, EVER?
WHY DOESNT MY FAVORITE CHARACTER PLAY LIKE HE USED TO IN THE OLD GAME WITH COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ROSTER BALANCING AND SYSTEM MECHANICS!!!??
WHY CANT I JUST USE THIS ONE CHARACTER IN A ROSTER OF DOZENS!? I DONT WANT TO PLAY OTHER CHARACTERS OR NEW ONES I WANT THE SAME ONE FOR 13 YEARS !!
>>254457167
I think he's referring to if a person has a non-patched version of the game then visits their friend who has a patched version.
>>254450126
>tfw your main is now FUCKING INVINCIBLE
>>254457167
I don't think he means online. Like, you haven't played with the latest patch, but you go to your friend's house and he's been practicing with the latest patch for a week. You're at an immediate disadvantage and have to pick up on the changes real fast. Don't forget that Nintendo tends to think of local multiplayer a lot more than other devs.
>>254457167
i think he meant the 3ds version, which it would be a problem with if some kid isnt allowed to use the internet or something like that
the way they used to do it was to make the newer version of the game overwrite the older one, but that seems like it might be an issue with the way the 3ds updates work and potentially just the sheer size of something like that
>>254450779
>my S tier character isn't S tier
>Buff him back to top tier
He's not bad just not the best
I hate whens devs do this shit.
its a horrible mentality, why cant they just buff everyone else instead of nerfing one character to shit.
>>254453283
>implying sakurai knows shit about balance
I just refuse to believe he and his team have the manpower and skill to figure out who is the best
>>254448128
>tfw your main isn't confirmed and is considered a "bad" character
>>254457918
And not to mention the way he's balancing characters
>some characters are better at team games while others solo
>so in other words nothing is balanced because some will do better in one mode and we balance that out by them not doing well in another mode
fucking retarded
>>254458086
>make the game playable with 4 players at once
>only balance it for 1 on 1 fights
That would be more retarded though
>>254457975
I feel you, brother.
>>254457862
Try to imagine every character in smash bros as a ball.
Now start juggling all of them.
That is how balancing is done.
>>254457918
http://nintendoenthusiast.com/article/competitive-smash-bros-wii-u-3ds/
>Since I had only played the game minimally at that point, I didnât agree, but that gave me motivation to go back and test her. Turns out Sakuraiâs assistants were certainly on the right trackâSamus is very strong now.
This thread brings up the question: Do you really main the character or the moveset?
Because if the character you like gets changed for the worse, why still even use him or her?
>>254458579
The moveset. However you can still end up maining the same character even if they totally change the moveset
>>254449972
At least he will always be the coolest
>>254458281
Balancing for 4 player matches is retarded because it's near impossible to balance
There are too many variables and factors to account for there are almost limitless amounts of potential multiplayer matchups that you would have to account for in order to have it balanced, same with trying to balance for items (which favor fast characters)
Think about how many people you would have to get together with equal skill with specific charcters to test each one and the amount of testing you would have to do before tweaking.
You balance for 1 v 1 and then just accept that multiplayer cannot be balanced but hopefully if a character is on equal footing in a 1v1 setting they should be able to manage in a FFA or Team game.
The only thing that I can see that could be broken for multiplayer are charge attacks, since in a multiplayer match you can probaly sneak away to charge your attack up while during 1v1's you have to knock an opponent far away or kill them before you could charge up a samus blast or a dk punch
>>254458524
>So powerful that even after a couple games you notice how strong she is
again
>implying sakurai knows how to balance
>>254458579
The character
Ness has never been high tier but he's still my go to character in every game.
>>254458579
If a character I love is changed, even if its in a worse way, I try to adapt and learn. But that's just me, if someone wants to stop using a character because of a change I don't really mind, as long as they can keep having fun with the game.
>tfw I still know next to nothing about my main in kerfluffle
Apart from Dees and Doos being gone.
>>254458579
i dont care how shit falcoln is. nothing feels better than landing falcoln punch
>>254458783
No momentum hurts him the worst way possible.
>>254458579
This gets brought up a lot. I personally think the best way to answer this is to main your favorite character and then after that sub as many movesets as you like.
>>254458956
This, he's never been very good but that won't stop me from using him.and beating my friends
>>254458579
I main my character based on the moveset
>Because if the character you like gets changed for the worse, why still even use him or her?
It's unlikely that the entire moveset would be totally overhauled between games, but yeah I'd easily dump my bitch for my backup if Sakurai ruined her moveset
>>254458807
>Balancing for 4 player matches is retarded because it's near impossible to balance
Gee, that's sounds just like, I dunno, A FUCKING PARTY GAME.
Just give it a rest already. Smash will never be "balanced," no matter how much you want it to be.
He's looking to be nerfed pretty fucking hard.
It hurts.
>>254458579
Both. But that means that there are certain character I will never play because I don't like how they play or the character, like Zelda.
>>254458807
That's probably another reason why they held the invitational.
>>254450120
This
>>254450376
Well there are enemies from the series in smash run too.. still, Ice Climbers are more likely to be in.
>>254448128
Well he wasn't spectacular in his games either.
Not being able to promote can really hurt when you're being compared to the list of lordlings.
>tfw your main was already bad
At least it can't get any worse, right?
>>254458924
>"I refuse to believe Sakurai is competent enough to know who's the best"
>Well, here are some pros that can confirm that Samus is indeed much more powerful so Sakurai obviously does knows what he's talking about
>WOOW SAKURAI DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO BALANCE IF YOU CAN TELL THAT SAMUS IS BETTER SO EASILY
Haha, holy shit. Are you going to say he doesn't know how to balance because after a few matches we can confirm that Bowser is a lot better than he used to be as well?
Irrational Sakurai haters will always jump through some mental loop to shit on him. The Meta Knight situation is the only instance where something went incredibly wrong with balancing. "But Melee's character viability" There are a bunch of viable characters in Melee, even if the scene is overrun with space animals.
>>254459292
if that's the case why even do anything? I'm not asking for perfection but why not just give everyone an OHKO move that they can use immediately? and just for fun make everyone have different speeds at which they use it
who gives a shit it's a party game why not just have be ccccrrrrrraaaaaaaaazzzyyy
just because it's hard to balance doesn't mean it shouldn't be as close to balanced as possibleretard
>>254459560
>Ike
>bad
Maybe competitively because Smash seems to be dominated by fast characters but unless you lack a sense of timing he's fun as fuck
>nerf some characters and buff other ones
>people complain about changes and the game is overall unbalanced
>repeat
Is there any game that isn't like this?
>>254459560
Just look at him. There is just no way someone that awesome can't be bad.
>>254459560
>TFW Yoshi main
It can probably get worse
>>254459690
The very first Street Fighter
>>254459306
But hey, at least the Pikmin can pick up items and bring them to you!This is probably what was considered a "buff" in exchange for the lower Pikmin count
>>254459292
>Gee, that's sounds just like, I dunno, A FUCKING PARTY GAME.
>Just give it a rest already. Smash will never be "balanced," no matter how much you want it to be.
Or you could possibly stop being retarded for a fraction of a second and realize that just because something isn't a serious game doesn't mean it should be broken and imbalanced. If it's to the point where people start complaining when someone picks Fox or Metaknight regardless of the level of play, that's when you have a problem.
In reality no game is to be taken seriously either way unless you're making a substantial amount of money from it, but you still have people taking multiple games "seriously" and "practicing" in them even though there is realistically no payoff at all. To say a game should be an unbalanced mess just because "it's a party game" shows how ignorant you are about both game design and human psychology.
>>254459823
Is there any game worth playing that isn't lik that?
>>254459604
At first yes I assumed that he played with some shitty people and he just happened to be winning the most with samus and it was a slightly subtle thing he was commenting on that would probably get turned once other people got a hold of the game but if some people can play a few matches and immediately tell someone is OP then yeah that's a shitty job of balancing a game
>>254454683
Any objections, lady?
>>254459721
Yoshi can now jump out of shield.
There might be hope for him yet.
>>254459823
That only had two guys that were completely identical.
>>254459920
No. The point is, you can't have 100% balance unless every character plays exactly the same. It's a very difficultbalancingact trying to make sure all characters, under all circumstances, especially in fucking smash bros, are usable and fair.
>>254459675
I'm mostly talking competitively. He was pretty fun.
>>254459721
Yeah, that's true. I mean, look at Zelda. She was already bad in Melee and became the second worst character in Brawl.
>>254450689tiers are for queers
>>254459604
>"But Melee's character viability" There are a bunch of viable characters in Melee, even if the scene is overrun with space animals.
This. There was a fucking Pikachu of all characters in top 8 this year. Even if it were only 10 - 12 characters being viable in Melee, it's a heck of a lot better than the 5 you see dominating almost the entire roster in Brawl.
>>254460164
Now she doesn't have Sheik to rely on, she has to become a more competent fighter.
>>254459342
Makes sense although if that was the case I don't know why we have the
"have you ever made a game?" quote when someone offered to help test the game. Obviously he wasn't talking about programming sakurai, just pushing the characters to the upper limits so that you can see what may need to be changed so we don't get another meta knight.it was funny though
>>254460327
what's funny is the fact that fox and falco are really good on accident (who the fuck would have thought that letting them jump out of their shine is a good idea back before everyone knew about the shit they can pull with that attack) and marth is as high as he is because of the fact that he happens to counter fox and falco well. The only predictably overpowered character in melee would be sheik because she has ridiculously low lag on attacks and really good grab game
Magic/psychic characters have always been shit in smash (except ness on 64), and that isn't gonna change now.
>>254460620
Speaking of, she doesn't have lag when throwing needles in the air now.
He just sucks at what he used to do. You have to play him a bit differently now. Bair fulfills Fairs old role in 4. Nair is a lot better.
>>254460620
No kidding. Sheik has the greatest spread when it comes to matchups in her favor. I think she also chaingrabs something like ten characters total, most of them placed near the bottom of the tiers.
>>254459091
I know, its like sakurai is killing half the cast by removing things that make them who they are
>>254455449
And his bair got buffed like crazy. You just have to play differently.
>>254460483
People were socially retarded and what could have either been an honest question, or just a simple joke, they took as some kind of passive aggressive loaded question.
>SMASH
>COMPETITIVE
LOL
>>254459675
Fast characters dominate comp smash because of the melee mentality. 4's mechanics are favoring neutral speed though. The difference is similar to Street Fighter 2 and Street Fighter 4. Offense has it's place, but now defense does too.
>>254460874
>Aside from not being able to transform into Zelda, Sheik feels a lot like she did in Melee with a twinge of her Brawl self, plus some new toys. Overall, the landing lag on her aerials felt like the least out of everyoneâs. Her movement was very fluid and her combos were plentifulâdefinitely a favorite of mine.
>Forward air: This is one of the least significant changes that Iâm bothering to list, but the strong forward air is back! Kind of. The move comes out INSTANTLY, faster than ever before, and the front tip has a strong hitbox. Itâs not as powerful as it is in Melee, but itâs no joke. Other parts of the move are much weaker, but it has little landing lag and can be used in combos very effectively.
>Up air: This move is no longer one strong kick upwardsâitâs a spinning kick like Samusâs and Greninjaâs, with a strong kick that sends opponents flying at the end.
>Neutral B: Shooting needles from the air no longer has lag upon landing, just like in Melee. This is one of the most significant improvements/restorations Sheik could have possibly received! Now Needle Storm is a much more potent moveâyou can use it while falling to lock your opponents in their shield, then follow up with a grab or another attack.
>Side B: Sheikâs chain now has Burst Grenades attached to the end. Releasing B makes Sheik pull the pin, causing the grenade to explode. Thereâs a suction effect that drags opponents in, making them easier to hit. Again, a vast improvement over her old lackluster chain, and looking like a really good move. Unfortunately, I didnât think to test whether this move would tether the edge like it does Brawl or not.
>Down B: Rather than transforming, Sheik now leaps through the air like Zero Suit Samus with her new down B, the Bouncing Fish. Making contact with this move causes her to jump again, away from her target. This vastly improves Sheikâs ability to get back to the stage once knocked off.
>>254460874
I'd be surprised if it isn't more than 10 she can chaingrab semi-floaty characters and the fastfallers get fucked anyways because of jab reset or tech chasing
add on guaranteed flow chart combos that include simple attacks like tilts and aerials (that get autocancelled really fucking easily) give her decent killing options both on the ground and in the air and you have a good fucking character that can still compete with something as ridiculous as fox
>>254451262
>Mains Ness
Huh, never knew he was so low in the tier list.
>>254459091
Actually, it was the removal of hitstun that killed him. His game plan is all about following up, which wasn't possible in Brawl unless you were Meta Knight. Smash 4 has a lot more potential for follow ups. We need to see some Falcon gameplay before we say anything.
>>254448128
>smash
>no health, ring outs only
>stage hazards
>lives
>ITEMS
>competitive
Apex kek
>>254461202
he has no range and his recovery sucks
he can be fun to watch and play though (like a lot of lower tier characters)
>>254461119
This. And fuck anyone who says its a bad thing. All it means is that more characters are viable. Sorry that you're not getting your shitty MvC2 Magneto attack-heavy bullshit that melee had, but most people don't want that. Some people like playing a more cerebral game.
>>254461538
backing this. It's impossible to balance all characters, but it's not too wild to want to play a game where a variety of playstyles are optimal instead of just one tactic.
Random main bros, ww@?!
>>254461885
fucking random is the worst clone in the game
>>254453283
>64 Samus was beyond shit
>Melee Samus was good
>Brawl Samus was shit
>Nintendo claims Samus was the strongest character in kerfluffle
I can't handle this emotional roller coaster anymoreAt least she's fun in PM
>>254461885
>>254461885
>Maining the "fuck it I suck anyway" button.
I have a question for you "competitive smash"lolplayers. You guys bitched about time-outs and general match length from Brawl's slower campy playstyle. However, you guys also used fucking retarded rules for the game. 8 minutes on the clock per match? Four fucking stocks? You have no right to complain about campy playstyles when your matches have 4 fucking times the time limit of literally all other competitive fighters and when you have twice as many lives as any round in another fighter. So why the fuck are you complaining about the alleged removal of "offensive play" and making the game campy when you have such completely retarded rules that support defensive play?
>>254462057
>not mastering the game
dam /v/ stay pleb
>>254462040they weren't talking about varia suit samus
I personally can't wait to see what the newcomers can offer to the scene.
>>254462158
>mastering the game
Yeah right. I don't see you kicking anyone's ass.
>People that mained characters because they were top tier complaining when the balance hammer finally hits them
Guess you'll have to get good now.
>>254462242
>Main random when Brawl was barely out and played with /v/
>Win most of the time
/v/ really does suck though :(
>>254461119
oh so metaknight is only good cause people have a melee mentality?
>>254462326
>Brawl
>>254461538
>>254461796
Fighting games aren't MOBAs, people don't just "decide" how to play a game through mob mentality. The options and tools people are given are what decides the game, if it rewards nothing but offense you get brute force, if it rewards defense you get endless camping until one party is able to punish for a mistake.
What you essentially want at this point, is instead of the "MvC2 Magneto" you want the "MvC2 Storm" run out the timer tactic. Ike isn't left unpicked because "melee mentality" anyone who believes that has no fucking clue what they're talking about. In a game with already limited mobility, and animations that can leave you open through lag, why would someone pick a character that has EVEN more of these? It's really not that difficult to figure out if you actually PLAY the games.
>>254462420
Ever heard of it? It's the third game in the series :)
So this is what Sakurai meant when he said Lucina was easy mode-Marth
I mean, look at her fucking landing lag
from the videos I'm watching, is Wii Fit trainer more of a defensive player than an offense one? Or is it just because Lilo was a bitch for being a pussy?
>>254462595
That's an autocancel dipshit
>>254448128
>tfw main is already shit
you would think they would make mario really good considering he is their poster child
>>254462439
No, what we want is something like Street Fighter IV, where the matchups are not as bad all across the board. Because fast, offensive, combo-heavy characters aren't the only ones that matter.
>>254462147
you think meleefags love watching peach and samus? protip: they don't
>>254462652
Well you gotta buff yourself up, which will require defensive tactics.
>>254462167
>Slim Doc Louis in a yukata
I never knew I wanted this until now.
>>254462390
Considering that people like M2K like Meta Knight and say he's good because, and I quote directly, "he's the most melee-like character", yes. Because Meta Knight was unbalanced.
>>254462731
He's just been getting worse and worse since the first game. His up smash needs its 64 power back, that thing kicked ass.
>>254461328
At least Ness can do combos..
you tube.com/watch?v=RFDmdNGb51I&list=UU0dCcWQ7PvQtvomWxL8d9kg
>>254462837
I guess but almost no one did deep breathing correctly.
>>254462734
>where the matchups are not as bad all across the board
Hugo vs projectiles
Sim vs armor
Vega vs knockdown
everything vs Yun
>>254462874
Top kek!
will he get a new moveset?
>>254462057
#YOLO
>>254462996
most people seem to agree it's kinda tricky, especially in a match where you gotta think about other stuff going on too.
>>254462996
What does it say in that pic?
>>254463179_no
>>254462734
You seem to think the matchups aren't as bad because you probably see "mid tier" characters topping at tourneys. Realize that you also have to factor in matchups, where people are in pools, how good other people are with matchups etc. Just because you see a 3 - 7 working out for the lower tier character doesn't mean it's suddenly equal. Otherwise Pikachu and Yoshi would be high tier in melee now. Also see >>254463041
like I said, stop getting your information from videos or forums.
>people actually wanting l-cancel back
Fucking why? It has no reason. If reduced landing lag was necessary, just reduce it. Don't make it a fucking input. And it doesn't even NEED to be reduced. Lots of other games have plenty of landing lag from aerial attacks. Just depends on how it works with the rest of the mechanics.
>>254463179
If he doesn't, and Palutena gets 12 fucking special moves, I will riot
>>254462785
And? What does that have to do with the retarded rules? Turn down the timer and turn down the stock count and the game changes.
>>254462874
You really pulled that one out of your ass there.
>>254463304
It needs to be reduced to help offensive play flow and not hamper approaching from the air.
>>254463304
> If reduced landing lag was necessary, just reduce it.
Right. And casualize the game further.
Fucking cancer.
>>254463096
Great argument there. Competitive smash sure has a great community!
>>254463179
Maybe. Sakurai has modified some characters to make them more accurate. Olimar and Bowser punch, DK rolls, and Link backflips. He might get lucky.
>Can't use custom moves in random online matches
if everyone has access to this shit then what's the fucking point?
>>254463041
however bad those matchups are it can't be anywhere near as bad as something like sheik vs bowser in melee
>>254461154
>Down B: Rather than transforming, Sheik now leaps through the air like Zero Suit Samus with her new down B, the Bouncing Fish. Making contact with this move causes her to jump again, away from her target. This vastly improves Sheikâs ability to get back to the stage once knocked off.
Down-B recoveries are the dumbest shit.
>>254463301
Where did I say it was totally balanced? Characters still have bad matchups in SF4, but it's not even fucking remotely close to how it is in games like Melee where it invalidates basically 90 percent of the cast almost entirely because of the mechanics. Which the retarded community wants to come back for some fucking reason.
I will laugh and be disappointed with Lucina doesn't have a unique victory animation.
>>254463683
It means they're not taking as much time to balance customized moves and don't want ranked online matches to suffer because of it.
>Falcon will never be good again because he depends on the physics, hitstun, speed and grab game to be good
>Physics in Smash 4 are weird, hitstun is there but you can never follow up with anything because everyone goes so far, and he may have dash speed but it doesn't matter if the rest sucks, not to mention grabs are also fucking weird and godlike powerful for some reason like in Smash 64
You know what? I'll hang around some competitive Melee players I know and squeeze in some Melee matches with them using Falcon. I'm half-decent at it, it should be fun to go full speed with Falcon. I'm gonna have a little personal sendoff for him, because I know he will never be good in Smash 4 or in any future Smash game ever again. I'm no competitive player, I just like to go fast when using him.
Welcome to the nerf zone, Marth mains. Enjoy your stay, but don't feel too bad. You could always switch to Lucina or some other stupid newcomer.
>>254463565
>Obligatory worthless passive aggressive post
Not him, but you just tried to deduce the reasoning of the entire meta based on a quote M2K said in the Smash Documentary. You made a retarded post, so you deserved a retarded response.
>>254463523
Offensive play can be helped in other ways. And if anything needs help in Smash, its the ground approach. Characters like Little Mac are shit because even with the way it works right now, air approach is still dominant.
>>254463561
Buzzwords
>>254462147
>>254463442
I'm going to assume you aren't trolling so I'll give you an honest response. First off, Smash isn't a traditional fighter, stop comparing that timer to Smash's timer, it's fucking dumb. Secondly, people didn't hate Brawl because it's matches took longer, they hated the game because it punished all forms offense (among other reasons). Smash's rules are fluid, if people felt there was a problem, they'd adjust. Melee used to be five stocks, it was cut to four. Brawl was cut to three. PM is having a debate about whether it should be 4 or 3.
I'm curious as to why you think Brawl's overly defensive gameplay has anything to do with the Melee's ruleset. Melee can be played fast. Hell, even Brawl can be played fast. Was your first introduction to competitive Smash a Hungrybox vs Armada set?
>>254463705
it really did feel off the first time playing ZSS with Down-B recovery.
>>254463856
You're a fucking idiot for passing a judgement like that from literally seeing NOTHING of Falcon's play. Especially when the game isn't even out. Especially about the topics that are MOST likely to change. Especially by trying to compare it to a past game as if that's the only way it can be done.
>>254463249
>Congratulations.
>Oh, he became docile.
>>254463705
Just think of it as another option. Sheik can now recover in two ways, and with a side b that isn't shit and needle storm being useful, she'll be more viable than she used to be.
>>254463824
See >>254458524
Apparently both Zero Suit and Classic are buff as fuck now.
>>254463940
You mean no approach at all is still dominant. Approaching and offensive play needs all the help it can get. Air play will always beat ground play because you're spending the majority of your time in the air, whether that is being launched off, trying to recover, chasing someone down. Reducing aerial landing lag is an easy way to make approaching safer and help offensive playstyles in general. You don't even need to map it to a button, just cut it across the board.
>>254464120
Stop trying to argue with Melee fags. They're mentally insane.
>>254452246
>and the fact that Sakurai went to enough trouble to actually make her own character because of the different ways they use Falchion says a lot
I still think this is a sort of bullshit thing for Sakurai to say. Marth doesn't ever appear in Awakening anyway, so there's no way to compare how Lucina and Marth use Falchion. Sure, you could argue that Marth appears in the DLCs, but he uses Lucina's model in those.
Hell, the fact that Lucina uses Marth's animations in Smash is makes the whole "they fight differently" thing even more dubious.
>>254464001
None of that meant anything. Just because it's not a "traditional fighter", whatever the fuck that means, doesn't mean an overlong timer or overlong rounds in general have a place. Games like Vampire and SF are both games you'd consider "traditional" but couldn't be further apart from each other. Yet they use the same timer. What about series like MvC? Or shit, what about Tekken? Short rounds are a staple of the genre.
>>254448128
>Played as him at Best Buy
>Barely hit anyone
>The other 2 people playing as Kirby and Sonic got 2 final smashes in a row
Oh well, Marth isn't that good in 4 player FFA anyway.
