>tfw the Playstation 2 had only 32MB of RAM, the PSX - 2 MB.
>N64 had 4MB but was upgradeable to 8MB with Expansion Pak
>tfw the Playstation 3 only had 256MB of RAM and 256MB of VRAM
>tfw the $5 Raspberry Pi Zero has as much, or less effective RAM as the Xbox 360 (512MB GDDR3 Shared Memory Architecture)
>the $35 Raspberry Pi 2 has a full gig
How did these ancient shitboxes run GTA V again? I remember thinking it looked good when it first came out, unknowingly in a watered-down state on dinosaur hardware. I bet you could get the game working on some future iteration of the Raspberry Pi. Running at 12FPS with ultra-low PS1 graphics mods, but still…
>>320474584
No AA since that is intensive.
Nearly empty street.
Low frame rate sitting still.
Distant objects swap out lower renderings to save ram.
I'm curious what the game looks like from the air.
Still impressive it scaled well enough to run at all though considering maxed out on PC the game is mind bendingly detailed and varied.
>Moore's law
>uses it incorrectly
>fails to understand anything about gaming hardware
You are doing /v/ proud anon.
>>320474584
When you know the hardware inside and out, it's easier to optimize the content for every last ounce of processing power. For instance, I recall a paper by Sony or one of their first parties where they detailed the amount of cycles it takes for data to be loaded from RAM vs the CPU cache; these are parameters that are impossible to guess or optimize for on PCs since one CPU might have a smaller cache and faster memory while another might have a larger cache but slower memory.
The result is that PC-focused games always shoot for the lowest common denominator in hardware, not to mention that they have to go through a hardware abstraction layer like DirectX anyway, so one couldn't optimize for a specific GPU even if they wanted to. This will be fixed somewhat with APIs like DX12.
>>320475667
The impression I get is that while PC software ultimately offers more potential, working with console architecture means you know what you're working with and can get peak performance out of it with a lot of technical knowledge and creativity.
desu I don't understand this shit at all.
>>320475667
Good points, but didn't the 360 run on DirectX 9 and Sony a version of OpenGL
>>320474980
GTA IV on the Xbox had x2 MSAA
>>320475776
That is true at the simplest level, but there are many other factors involved. The general high overhead for DX11 is why the likes of /g/ (and everyone if they are smart) is hyped over vulkan and to a lesser extent DX12.
>>320476042
I don't believe DX12 will gain much traction because of the OS it's locked to. DX10 was lauded as the second coming of Jesus by everyone in the industry (remember the hype for Crysis?) but DX11 was what actually took off because it launched with a far better OS.
>>320475921
Didn't the xbox 360 have a chip that gave it free 2x msaa on everything it rendered
>still can't emulate PS3
>2 weeks off 2016
>2016
lol
My PS3 will stay useful.
>>320476601
It was built into the GPU architecture, yeah, but late 360 games optionally used it for other effects when everyone was just slapping FXAA on everything.
>>320476430
Win10 already has a massive chunk of marketshare for vidya if steam's hardware survey is anything to do by.
>>320475921
I didn't think GTA IV's even supported AA. Something to do with the way the lighting system worked.
>>320474584
Rockstar have some damn good programmers. GTAV on PC is absurdly well optimized and the technology behind the game in general is gnarly as fuck. I never get tired of the way bullets in GTAV actually impact people and cause them to fall over realistically.
>>320476935
Steam doesn't admit what the sample size is, though. 30% out of what, a million computers maybe, runs Windows 10 with a DX12 GPU? Games nowadays are considered to be a total flop if they don't sell 5 million in a week.
>>320477118
How well?
>>320477227
> Games nowadays are considered to be a total flop if they don't sell 5 million in a week.
Which isn't strictly relevant. Fun fact: its marketing costs that have caused game budgets to explode.
>>320477302
Extremely well. I'm running a Phenom II x4 965 @ 3.5, 4GB of RAM and a 7870. I'm getting 35-60fps on high settings at 1080p.
>>320477462
Sounds good. Might have to pick it up.
>>320474584
It runs at like 490p upscaled
>>320477320
It's still a valid point. Developers will continue to release DX11 and even DX9 games for years to come simply because targeting the older versions will allow for higher sales, and don't expect NVIDIA or even AMD to start advertising for DX12 either because all it really does is make your existing hardware better which is awful for hardware companies.
>>320477462
>Phenom II
Why didn't you just buy Nehalem? PII was pretty much Core 2 Quad quality but a generation late.
>>320477227
>Games nowadays are considered to be a total flop if they don't sell 5 million in a week.
No they aren't. That's a huge amount for anything other than the most anticipated AAA titles.
>>320477563
Don't pay for it, it's not worth it. The multiplayer is dog shit, and all the unofficial multiplayer mods are getting C&D'd left right and center.
https://rarbg.to/torrent/o6y8ha9
>>320477778
I got the 965 for peanuts, and at the time I only had a pathetic budget of 600 kangaroos.
>>320474584
Extremely low resolution
No AA/AF
Every setting way below pc minimum
Horrible framerate
And after a few meters, shadows dissapear and everything turns extremely low poly
>>320477320
>its marketing costs that have caused game budgets to explode
Actually it's originally development costs.
Old vidya studios had very rough management, mostly because they knew they were leading creative projects, not just technical projects. The management change, which poorly adapted to the artistic nature of vidya, each dev ended up getting three managers, they created QA teams that would waste days wondering whether a button should be red and blue and whose feelings it would hurt the most, and which culture would feel the most insulted...
Dev costs exploded for absolutely no fucking reason as games lost all originality and soul and their content was reduced. They needed to make bigger margins, and thus, they invested in marketing big time.
Marketing isn't much of a problem compared with the inner workings of a vidya studio these days, which happen to be directly responsible for the quality of the game, unlike marketing.
>>320475921
Didn't know that. Just looked at the picture and saw jaggy out the ass.
>>320476042
I find this more interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U65NOh5cYJg
I doubt D12 will see the jump they want. I'ld rather see it phase out for open standards, but I rather like Linux and hate being nailed to Windows by video editing and DX. Also /g/ knows a lot less than /v/ in general when it comes to GPU tech. /g/ is phones now.
>>320478293
>which happen to be directly responsible for the quality of the game, unlike marketing.
This was never in contention. The likeso f activision and EA spend more money on marketing CoD and battlefield than they do for actual development costs. Similarly a staggering percentage of witcher 3's budget was for marketing.
>>320478497
>I find this more interesting.
Its also a complete scam. Off the top of my head the only reason they are getting away with their bullshit is the australian government is (or at least, was) financing some of the project.
>>320478658
Aw that is a pity. I've see a few others as well though. All the same I wish DX would go open or go fuck itself. Or that the compatibility layer used in Dota2 would get some rework to work on other games.
>>320478293
I want to believe you're making a good point here but your composition needs work C- see me after class
Consoles are actually WAAAY behind Moore's Law. And with the decade long lifespan of the Xbone and PS4, they'll eventually be about eight generations behind PC gaming graphics.Tablet and smartphone graphics are also slated to over take home console graphics in the next two years.
>>320477302
i5 760
gtx 660
8 gb ram
my game looks like this and runs at 50-60 fps
there are a couple settings that completely murder framerate on modest rigs (msaa, detailed grass), stay away from those and you're good
>>320479336
>Get smooth 60 fps in AC4
>Enter jungle
>30fps
Fucking foliage
>>320479336
I do hope you ignored the VRAM 'limit' and just cranked texture quality up to high
>>320477563
the newer GTA online related updates completely fucked up the performance and as another anon said the MP is shit so you might as well pirate it
>>320479314
>He thinks the Ps4 and One will be a decade on the market
Why are shitposters so bad these days?
>>320477118
>way bullets in GTAV actually impact people
>shoot guy in the foot with 9mm
>he fucking dies instantly
>>320479614
>the newer GTA online related updates completely fucked up the performance
when did you make up this bullshit?
all GTAO updates have been nothing more than new models and fuctionality. Performance is exactly the same if not better due to actual patching of some flaws.
>>320479602
sure did
i was on a 550 ti earlier this year and had to deal with shit like this. any attempts at cranking up texture quality would result in massive stuttering
>>320479314
That chart seems generous.
PS4 is a little behind a 7850. Which I will say I saw a friend play Dragon Ago on it and looked fairly good, but it does make me sad not to look forward to a knew console line up like I did as a kid. The PC I retired and had built during PS3 times beats out every current console half a decade later.
Just seems a waste when all of them are just boxes of cpu/gpu/ram. Nothing really unique anymore that matters.
>>320479807
The way HP is counted in video games in general has nothing to do with the feature of bullets impacting NPC's in a cool way.
Although Battlefront has 1upped GTA with the dynamic gunshot impacts on characters. That just looks amazing.
>>320479807
Calling bullshit. You can kill them with foot shots, but it takes a lot of them. There very much is area based damage.
>>320474584
You'll probably be able to emulate 360 and ps3 games on a hundred dollar tablet in a decade i'm sure.
>>320479857
Oh god, the thumbnail makes that billboard on the left look like some sort of horrifying demon face
>>320479841
well I haven't played it in awhile but the game ran a lot worse than at launch thanks to the updates which were mostly GTAO related
>>320480016
>implying a ps3 emulator will ever happen
GTA Online maxed out at V-Synced 60fps.
V-Sync disabled it's stable at 85fps average, minimum is 50fps and high goes up to 120fps.Specs are i7 4790K/GTX 980/16GB DDR3
>>320480098
One is being developed and it's making fast progress right now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3Q-ziBaQx4
This is now just a GTA screenshots thread?
>>320479683
>Why are shitposters so bad these days?
Are the Wii, Xbox 360 and PS3 still on sale? Are games still ebing released for them? How long have they been on the market?
I hope you're just pretending to be retarded.
>>320480207
Jesus. I may play Tales of Vesperia yet!
>>320479862
Technically it should be ever so slightly faster than a reference 7850, it has a one extra enabled CU and the same core clock.
Memory bandwidth is another matter though.
1st or 3rd person?
>>320475145
this
I come here only to laugh at retards and to top it off, vs taste in vydia is horrible to laughable
To those who actually have a Pi: What do you actually use it for? At first I thought it was a novel idea but with its low specs I honestly cannot think of a practical use for it. I'm not trying to put it down I'm just completely ignorant on the subject
Pro tip, you can literally get the same performance downsampling from double your resolution as you do at native. This game is a mediocre port. In intensive areas, gpu usage goes way down for no reason. I downsample from 2k and it performs the same as 1080p.
>>320480207
Woah what the fuck
>>320474584
Why do you call it the PSX? WH not PS1?
>>320480693
From what I've seen it comes off lower due to that. Its impressive for the price of the machine, but consoles even as big as they are now still have to worry about thermals and noise levels a lot more too so that becomes a limit.
>>320480970
Used it as a Roku when Roku were a few hundred dollars and I couldn't afford one.
>>320481020
Do we really want to start this. Its PS1 in the same retroactive naming that calls ATA drives PATA when a newer standard came out and more distinct naming was needed.
>>320480970
Irssi. I'm thinking about running an irc bot on it too.
>>320479314
Moores law is a stupid marketing term that was proven to be bullshit decades ago.
And this is the first gen in history where console games are demonstrably weaker then easily obtainable Personal Computers.
First
Fucking
Gen
Ever.
Scratch that >>320480153.
THIS is GTA Online maxed out (had to ignore VRAM limitation of 4135MB on a 4092MB GPU).
Average of 55fps, drops to 32fps and maxes out at 70fps.
Specs are still i7 4790K/GTX 980/16GB DDR3
>>320481020
EVERYBODY called it the PSX on release. There was also an actual PSOne which essentially is a PSX slim. You're probably too young to remember that.
>>320481168
>And this is the first gen in history where console games are demonstrably weaker then easily obtainable Personal Computers.
>First
>Fucking
>Gen
>Ever.
Does that make the consoles being weak statement any less true? Why are you so vested in consoles when clearly they are holding back vidya? You are part of the problem.
>>320480970
It's meant to be used to teach people about computers. Let them experiment with stuff without breaking something expensive.
>>320481175
Kinda disappointing on the vanilla graphics of GTA V/Online.
Makes the fact that ENBs are banned online even sadder since the game can look very beautiful...
>>320480970
Used it as a Roku when Roku were a few hundred dollars and I couldn't afford one.
>>320481020
Do we really want to start this. Its PS1 in the same retroactive naming that calls ATA drives PATA when a newer standard came out and more distinct naming was needed.
>>320481168
Depressing really. Though we could see it coming considering 360 and PS3 got surpassed very soon after release and left in the dust so soon after release.
>>320479862
>Just seems a waste when all of them are just boxes of cpu/gpu/ram. Nothing really unique anymore that matters.
This was the downfall in consoles being a unique platform and compelling reasons to buy them. Having different capabilities made them shine.
Now they're copy pastes of each other with super minor differences and the only differences of the exclusives come down to them being exclusive. Because there is no reason Bloodborne couldn't run essentially the same on an Xbone, and Halo vice versa.
It's not like the NES/SNES/Genesis/N64/PS1 where there were legitimately different hardware capabilities that made exclusive games have certain features that ONLY that console could have. Try having Sonic music on a SNES, or MGS on an N64
>>320474584
Yeah man, RAM is the be-all-end-all of performance, how crazy is it that this one relatively cheap component is equivalent to a relatively cheap component from nearly 10 years ago!
OP, you should look into some of the Eurogamer / Digital Foundry game comparisons, they do some really excellent testing and benchmarking for games.
Here's the Tomb Raider 2 360 vs Xbone comparison, and it's really entertaining how the 360 version has less input lag and superior texture filtering. https://youtu.be/6Nv4sBCx0_c
>>320474584
This article gives a really good explanation
http://www.adriancourreges.com/blog/2015/11/02/gta-v-graphics-study/
>>320481458
why the hell is there even a 360 version of the game?
>>320474584
I'm guessing because developers actually tried to optimize games for those consoles.
And because of a lot ot trickery like upscaling resolution(it runs at sub 720p in both consoles if I'm not mistaken) no AA or a very bad type of morphological anti aliasing that blurrs everything(evident in the OP) and very few objects in the streets.
>>320481168
>that was proven to be bullshit decades ago.
Except the fact that electronics engineers today still completely agree with it and any research on the matter shows you're a fucking idiot.
>>320480970
Trying to set up a home video server, watch movies on the go with a Gerry-rigged Netflix. Unfortunately, Linux is a cunt and keeps fucking up for no reason when I restart.
>>320481168
>Moores law is a stupid marketing term that was proven to be bullshit decades ago.
Funny how it was proven "decades" ago and yet is valid straight until the latest CPUs of 2015. But no, don't listen to people who build these things and work in the industry for a living, listen to the fuckwit on /v/ who think he's an expert on everything.
>>320481423
Basically. There is no reason everything on them can't run on a PC. Things would run more poorly on an xbox thanks to it thinking it was a good idea to copy the PS3 memory choke.
When NES came out and even in the 16bit era, consoles were still somewhat modded PC parts (think SNES was a Apple chip GSII? off hand), but they had unique parts like a PPU that allowed for smooth scrolling and unique tile set coding to store large games in small spaces.
By comparison PC gaming at the time had to full screen refresh and clunky scrolling, was all CPU based. The colors palettes were often smaller, the screens less flexible, the ports inconsistent, games stored text in the booklet for too little disk room, etc. Consoles could do things PC just couldn't, or at least couldn't without some very talented game makers.
And then there was Quake. 3D acceleration and the desire to speed up games creating a growing world of VGA adapters was the original death to consoles, its just slow to happen. That was the moment PC flew past consoles never to come back. Roughly around the release of the N64, which was powerful but fucking retarded in design making its decent gpu somewhat useless and quickly surpassed.
So you are very right N64/PS1/Saturn they were really the last consoles, that were consoles. Unique, easy, and friendly devices anyone could buy and use. Now they are expensive and have all the downsides of PC without a lot of the benefit, seriously fuck the damn console updates every boot up.
>>320481168
>Retarded enough to think Moore's Law was disproven even though transistor numbers are public info and show it's very much still in effort to this generation of CPUs (Both x86 and ARM to boot)
>>320481747
they do? I could swear we haven't seen any evolution in processor power in a while now
>>320480316
That's because last gen was probably the most successful and most culturally relevant gaming generation ever.
Maybe MAYBE it was even more popular and bigger then the coke filled 70's arcade and atari boom.
That shit is still selling and will continue to sell because to an entire generation of children, toddlers to mid to late teenagers, gaming is the ps360 wii, 3DS and maybe a few games on the pc like minecraft and sims.
And that's all.
That is litterally fucking it.
It will take a litteral fucking miracle for current gen to be as popular and relevant as last gen. Why? Cause the consoles have no wow factor, the pubs and console makers litterally went to war AGAINST the vast casual audience that filled their fucking coffers with horrible marketing pr and their ill-concieved quasi steam online bullshit+everyone needing paid online and to instal their games on tiny hard drives that have to be replaced.
To be honest, I am GOBSMACKED the ps4 and xb1 are even making any money. They aren't though, not really, cause...they've been fucking retarded and think that a new case and slightly shinier versions of the same goddamned game plus with a 500 dollar upfront price tag and heeding to permanently pay just to be able to PLAY their own fucking game will make people buy them.
Current gen will never ever ever be as big, let alone half as big as last gen. And hell will freeze many times before microsoft and sony will discontinue last gen consoles and major publishers will stop making games for the last gen.
We all saw how well discontinuing the wii in hopes of forcing people to buy their new inferior product the wiiu helped nintendo didn't we?
Exactly.
>>320481643
Console clear out. One last big game to sell off the old stock a bit before the next gen and PC versions pissed all over it.
>>320481831
>until the latest CPUs of 2015
It still is valid, but Intel is going for Performance per core and per watt rather than pure output.
Reason? AMD simply cannot compete on pure performance output so Intel can afford to slow down performance output while focusing on efficiency.
That's why that Intel Pentium G3258, a dual-core that can OC to 4.5GHz can AND will beat the AMD FX-9590 Octo-Core at 5GHz.
And that's pretty fucking sad.
>>320474584
The Raspberry Pi has a shit GPU anon, it wouldn't run.
The GPU is almost everything these days, the CPU really doesn't serve much purpose, and seeing how the mechanical complexity of vidya is decreasing, they'll soon reach lower than early NES games, only with better graphics, and you could literally slap a GTX 960 on a Game Boy and have it run the next AAA title.
And these old consoles happened to have god tier GPU and a god tier architecture that came with it, especially the Xbox and the 360.
Now it still has something decent that beats all last gen smartphones out there, that's still something, and it could certainly run it up to PS2 quality. Which means yes, it could essentially run it as well as GTA:SA. And that still allows you to run mechanically complex games, except with not so good graphics, but that doesn't mean it can't look good either. It's crazy what devs and artists can achieve when working on a limited platform, it really pushes them to the max unlike on modern platform where they have so much power they get lazy and end up making something inconsistent.
I'm actually thinking about making games specifically for Pis. You could make something incredible with a handful talented and hard working artists and competent programmers.
>>320478658
It wasn't a scam, they do architectural and environmental visualisations now with that technology and have invented a crazy-detailed 3d scanning process used in those fields: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVsyB938ovY
Wikipedia says they recently signed a $116m deal to distribute the scanning/visualisation software. The tech sadly never made the jump to games though.
>>320475667
>dx12 requires windows botnet 10
doa
>>320481995
Dayumn, your salty
>>320478501
>>320479030
I used to work for Square Enix, ask me anything.
>>320482050
Thank you, I don't know how many times I've had to post this. Clueless retards on /v/ think video games are the center of technology.
>>320481995
So you retract your idiotic comment about consoles not having a decade long lifespan then.
The Xbone and PS4 are planned to last as long as the PS360 with only the WiiU planned to have a premature EoL.
Which is still pretty fucked up considering how weak the Xbone and PS4 were on release.
>>320482090
Only DOA for paranoid idiots like you.
>>320477118
Their server programmers are probably some of the worst in the business. The fact that it still takes up to 5 minutes to enter GTA:Online on PS4 is absolutely nuts. It's not even world load time, the SP load times are 30s or less, it's the server doing god knows what before it lets you into a lobby.
>>320482218
my os shouldn't spy on me just so microsoft can make more money
windows 7 will be the last good windows, this isn't like with 8 being good with 8.1
why don't cpus get any stronger? why is it only the graphics cards that require upgrading?
>>320482384
heat
>>320482112
Did the suits hate sleeping dogs?
>>320481285
>when clearly they are holding back vidya
If consoles fail then PC gaming will fall right behind it stupid.
By the way, consoles are the reason why graphically intense PC games are even a fucking thing nowadays.
We can sit here and pretend the four or five games out of the litterally thousands released every year selling almost as much as an underperforming 3ds title is a huge success.
But you know as well as I do that, that's retarded.
Without console bucks those AAA companies will fold tomorrow and Steam would become just a giant clusterfuck of stuff like gone home and undertale and other inferior games that would have been called weak back in the 90's.
Like it or not the console industry needs to survive for video gaming as we know it to survive.
>>320481421
Not by anything the average consumer could afford or even knew about however.
It wasn't until a few years ago that a card that could output ps360 tier graphics at a high fps cost less then ps360 console by itself.
Even now you can buy one for less then the cost of a graphics card and have dozens fo second hand and budget titles that cost less and look as good as pc titles with none of the fuss.
>>320474584
fucking bullshit
i have an acient machine
Core 2 Duo 1.8
4gb RAM
550TI
Runs like shit, no tweak can make this shitty game runs better, even fallout 4 runs better and actually got mods that made it runs even better
>>320482384
it's becoming harder to get smaller die sizes
for games, you really don't need much more than a core2quad unless you're doing super high res, and in that case the 2nd gen i5's are still just fine
>>320482384
CPU's do get stronger, you dimwit.
What you are trying to ask is why haven't you bought a new CPU in the past 6 years.
That's because the core architecture of games is relatively simple and not focused on using the using the computing power for graphics while a dedicated unit like a GPU can do it better.
>>320482442
No clue, I quit a year before DE:HR release and had nothing to do with it. But opinions seemed positive on it despite the delays.
>>320482384
CPU's can only do so many instructions per cycle before the limitations of the universe kick in, that is why for complex computational task we process it in parallel.
Not everything can reasonably benefit from parallel processing though and video games are not that computationally expensive in the first place. Retards on /v/ always shit post about "hurr muh better AI and physics" but ultimately those things barely mean anything for gameplay from a technical perspective and everything from a "does it feel fun" and it turns out fun is generally computationally cheap.
Making it visually better though requires more processing power all the time though.
tl;dr game design is still fundamentally the same as the n64 era so it doesn't need that much cpu power.
>>320482384
CPUs in general are a lot more complex than GPUs (which isn't saying much given how complicated all modern silicon is) and have considerably different problems to a grtaphics card. Namely as >>320482425 says thermal desnityi s a massive problem given the rather small surface area of a CPU. Current top end GPU dies are considerably larger in surface area than Intel's latest CPUs and that means they are easier to cool.
To wit: the thirstiest CPU in the consumer space is AMD's 9590 with a 220w TDP - That is below monster GPUs like 390x, 980ti, titanx, titan black, 780ti etc etc. On average a GPU will have twice the TDP of a CPU.
>>320482497
>Like it or not the console industry needs to survive for video gaming as we know it to survive.
Nickle and dime DLCs, timed exclusives, pay to play online, shit graphics etc.
I know being a Sonygger is suffering, you might as well just end yourself to end the torture.
>>320474584
You need to take into account the benefit consoles have. Games can just run "off the metal". You don't need as much ram. Its only as important as it is on the PC because of the architecture of the system.
Its why we can't perfectly emulate gamecube games still, because the way PC's load games is so different from the way consoles do.
Also, most people using steam have worse computers than a PS4. PC master race is a myth, it's just a very very small percentage of diehard autists buying all this overhyped and overpriced gamer shit.
>>320482641
Do you know if the DE:HR journalist build leak was intentional or accidental? It basically sold me the game and totally turned around opinion on /v/ about the game from 'worse than Invisible War' to 'holy fuck this is amazing', so I suspected it might have been intentional.
>>320482384
>why don't cpus get any stronger?
Go render a 8.9m tri scene with Vray or Octane on an i7 920 then a 2500k then a 4970. Let me know how "not any stronger" they are.
To answer your incorrect question, because of material size.
The problem is size. What makes CPUs stronger and stronger isn't magic new parts inside that are faster, it's shrinking the die so that the electrical signals can loop through the logic cores faster (yes, even at the speed of light, electricity travel time affects CPU performance)
We need to get over silicon and find a new material. Intel is working on 3 different materials now, and they feel they have maybe 2 decent steps in power left on silicon before it's hit its limit.
>>320482748
Most leaks are intentional, the star wars thing included.
>>320482737
>Games can just run "off the metal"
The term you are incorrectly looking for is optimization.
"Console optimization" is just up-scaling (ie; from native 900p to 1080p), running at limited frame rates, low-to-no AA, limited draw distance, limited particle physics and baked on, rather than dynamic lighting and shadows.
>>320482947
Congrats on completely missing the point of his post. He's not talking about tweaking settings, he's talking about consoles having way less overhead in draw calls, less/no contention for resources with other processes, etc.
>>320482947
up to the last gen at least consoles had dedicated hardware to do transparency, anti-aliasing, etc
>>320482697
I'm not getting a current gen console. Not ever.
I'm sticking to last gen and maybe my pc as long as I don't have to instal steam and that's it.
All of that shit? That's why I don't play most major console games. They're basically bringing over all of the bad shit from the mobile game arena and pc but not realziing it both has to be good AND maintain it's own strengths.
Consoles have none of the strengths that it had and is nothing but bad. They don't even have unique games or anything anymore. It's just all bad.
>>320482947
No retard, the term he is looking for is off the metal.
Your graphics card has to interface with your operating system which requires it to communicate with the CPU through the driver. This overhead makes PC able to do a lot less draw calls and bottlenecks performance in general.
>Laughs at people for being dumb
>Has no idea what he is talking about
>>320482827
There's nanotubes and graphyte but I doubt anyone will do anything with the former and the latter is going to be eternally shelved because of how easy to create it is and game changing it could be.
>>320483039
>>320483104
>>320483148
>what is DX12
>what is Vulcan
Keep looking retarded, Sonyggers.
>>320483039
Well he was wrong about basically everything aside from what amounts to yes the consoles OS takes less resources. This matters so little and has since around Windows 7. Additionally provided the documentation is good a console can run very efficiently, but this too is not much of an issue and in some cases like the Saturn or N64 is not always true.
>>320482748
I was actually involved in this thing, it was clearly accidental. People at Square Enix were really angry, because it meant that the antipiracy features already in place could be broken far before release.
Also it was a debug version, which also included stuff that shouldn't be in release, so tons of technology could easily be extracted from it, and you could almost salvage the entire engine from it and exploit it separately. Which means a huge knowledge leak. Overinflated fears on that side, but still, it's not something you want.
It had a positive outcome, but it really wasn't planned.
>>320481747
You're either fucking retarded are a shill who doesn't know what the fuck they're talking about.
That shit has never had a lick of fucking scientific validity .
It's always been a fucking marketing scam you stupid waste of spunk.
>>320474584
The graphics on the ps3 were horrible and the framerate was glacial. I remember hating it while i played it thank god they ported to pc
Its not hardware
its the software thats more important
>>320483272
You realise those are built to basically replicate console graphics APIs
>>320483291
Windows requires about 512mb RAM baseline, the thread was about running the entire GTA5 inside 512mb RAM, so obviously consoles are at an advantage. Probably not so much in current gen with 8GB of RAM.
>>320483148
>N64
>Micro code
>No CPU to memory access.
>PS3
>split ram
>chained CPUs
The number of built in flaws and blackboxes in some systems really loses that advantage.
>>320483272
DX12 and Vulcan are graphics API's that no games use yet that are designed to try to reduce driver overhead while allowing games to more liberally create context as well as do "multithreaded" rendering.
Guess what? It's still worse than what you can do on a console retard. PC's only render games the best because the hardware is sometimes upwards of 10 times more powerful, the architecture is absolutely terrible.
>>320483039
>>320483104
>>320483126
False.
The Xbone and PS4 locks upto 3GB of system/shared memory for the OS and background processes.
Tied with the underpowered and underwhelming AMD APUs (weaker than laptop standard AMD CPUs) means there IS significant amount of processing and graphical power being drawn away from gaming performance.
>>320481831
You do realize that Intel just has a shitload of powerful CPUs just sitting the fuck around and they are doing nothing but sitting on them and playing them up.
Marketing the idea of moores law is far more profitable then releasing a quantum leap in cpu technology one day and having fuck all else to sell.
Small planned incremental releases of superior technology.
That's how the keep selling new cpus to you and businesses.
You honestly fucking think that the best tech is on the market THE EXACT DAY that it's created?
Are you high?
>>320483347
Wow, I had no idea. Interesting. Well, I stayed up all night playing the leak, it was unbelievably good, so worked out well in the end.
>>320481980
It's not about a revolution. It's about size.
>>320483504
>3gb for os and background processes
holy shit, my desktop has less overhead than that and I've got a shitton of things other than games running all the time
>>320483504
I have no knowledge about specific RAM allocation, but both consoles have pared back their OS CPU requirements significantly from launch.
http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/218659-sony-unlocks-the-ps4s-seventh-cpu-core-but-will-games-benefit
http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-quietly-unlocked-an-additional-core-for-gaming-on-the-xbox-one
>>320483419
>Split ram and chained CPU's
>Problem
The ram was fine because it was extremely fast and at the time of release it was enough. (Consoles shouldn't last 10 years)
Chained CPU's took getting used to.
I don't know shit about the architecture of the N64 though.
>>320483545
Read >>320482020
The sooner AMD falls out of the CPU market and someone more capable like Samsung and Nvidia etc. replaces in, the sooner we will have much faster CPUs regularly.
There is no competitive advantage of Intel to pursue greater leaps in CPU performance as long as AMD is dragging it's corpse around.
Intel actually gives financial aid to AMD as to adhere to anti-competitive legislation.
>>320483220
They will actually probably not change materials entirely, it's starting to look like it's going to be an alloy with instead a new transitior system.
Probably a Indium, Gallium, Arsenide, Silicone alloy that uses QWFET technology for logic gates.
>>320483545
Holy shit you are a retard.
>Intel has secret fabs they don't tell anybody about even though they are legally obligated to where they make extremely powerful processors and can in yields great enough to supply a market with even though they couldn't supply their latest generation of processors and and had a massive shortage of 6700k's and 6600k's
I really wish people would not do this tin foil bullshit based on how OBVIOUS the world has to work and instead did minimal research to learn their fantasy scenarios don't actually exist.
>>320483393
And Windows isn't sharing into the vram either. Having to cut corners like a motherfucker isn't an advantage.
Now that is a weird one on consoles since shared ram is easier to program for when your resources are limited, but if the ram sucks you are fucked in every hole, think Microsoft would know this but whatever. But on a PC it means the only performance loss is in the interface since the hardware isn't sharing anything. Windows isn't running off that GPU that is all for the game, sorta.
Its impressive to get a big game to run on a toaster, but it is not an advantage. Its cool though, but its like calling a bicycle gas efficient. Its true in a way, but not exactly.
>>320477970
>>320477970Know where I can find a torrent with an up to date build including the content expansions, or do the content expansions add nothing to single-player?
>>320483684
>>320483635
A 7th core from an already underpowered AMD APU (two generations behind from current AMD laptop CPUs) won't fix the issue.
The Xbone and PS4 have "okay" low-end desktop equivalent GPUs, but it is being bottlenecked by that CPU.
>>320483220
>>320483220
Wait, nobody is going to use Graphyte meta materials because of how easy it is to use?
>>320483789
Every day I read shit on 4chan I always get a good giggle.
>The sooner AMD falls out of the CPU market
Then Intel will own the x86 market. End of story.
>Someone more capable like Samsung
>Samsung
>Fucking Samsung
They have literally only made a few ARM processors and they were all SoC's.
>Nvidia
Makes graphics cards.
You are a retard. Why would these companies try to compete with Intel in a market they have literally no technology in whatsoever? Samsung makes fucking phones. Why are they going to try to make x86 processors and compete with Intel? The only people in the world who have any capability or technology to compete with Intel is AMD.
The most money right now is in ARM anyway, which is why everybody is investing in it except Intel, who is trying to leverage existing technology in the mobile market. (And you see how that is working out, they are paying money to put chips in peoples hands essentially at this point.)
You better hope Zen isn't shit if you don't like Intel.
>>320483975
He's just having his retarded conspiracy theory. Even though it would just increase profit ratios because only 3 companies can make viable consumer PC CPUs so competition isn't that tight.
>>320483393
Technically there is nothing stopping you from running GTA with no OS or your own custom OS without all the security features and shit of Windows and even without the graphics driver if you are a mad man.
>>320483789
Dude, intel already owns the market right now. The can litterally squeeze out fucking anyone. And AMD only fucking exists because Intel allows them too and uses them as a way to keep the anti trust guys from fucking them harder then a blonde dyke in a black frat.
Samsung can't even make fucking phones that last longer then 4 years. How in the fuck are they going to compete against intel.
They can only compete by playing an end run around intel and getting into some other part of the electronic business.
That's it.
>>320483824
You concocted a scenario where I'm wrong and you're right. Now, tell me.
Do you honestly believe they don't just have a shitload of prototypes that could easily outperform anything we have today?
And what the the fuck does a fuck up in manufacturing have to do with anything.
They can keep up with anything any competitor can put on the fucking market. And there's a reason for that.
Moorse law is fucking marketing mumbo jumbo.
>>320483975
The problem with graphene is that it cannot be controlled with a binary IO switch, yet.
The potential is there, but we're even closer to quantum superposition processing (already proven to be working) over graphene.
The jump from silcates to graphene is in the magnitudes of hundreds, the jump from graphene to quantum superposition processing is in the millions of millions times.
>>320478293
That post is just implying that it's unreasonable to say that making games is more expensive now with so many more tools with which to dev. It's the studio's fault if they don't implement them.
>>320483937
>bottlenecked
>A console GPU is being bottlenecked by a console CPU
Just kill yourself already. You clearly don't know what you are talking about and pretending that you do isn't fooling anyone.
Or how about this, how about you explain without just comparing something to a laptop why the AMD CPU on the PS4 is no good and how it bottlenecks the GPU. Actually explain how it happens or what features it's missing.
>>320484185
>>320484185
So basically, while trying to find new break-away leap technologies, we discovered an even better, more absurd technological advancement?
>>320474584
Moore's Law is specifically about CPUs. Unless you think CPUs run on ram power.
>>320484240
I bet you think a CPU is being bottlenecked just because all the cores read around 2%5 usage instead of 100%
>>320483694
Basically the N64 was garbage. The CPU couldn't talk to memory it had to talk to the GPU which then talked to the memory. GPU busy using the memory well fuck yourself CPU go sit in the corner and jerk off a few cycles.
The method for this was so backward even people good at using it fucking hated the console. I seem to recall an interview with Rare that hinted at that. One of the better people at making games for that junk pile.
Top it off that the GPU was powerful for its time, but had a 4kb texture buffer which is why everything on the N64 is shaded rather than textured and it all looks like crayola because if you want more than a skybox you'll take an eternity. It was a V8 in a Ford Pinto, it had to be throttled to worthless.
PS3 slit ram was not okay. It was basically the reason most devs have said the multiplats all ended up better on the 360. The CPUs being dependent on the larger CPUs created choke points as well.
PCs at the time often had 4 times the system ram and equal or double the vram. Late in its life it was easily 16 times the system ram 4 to 8 times the vram but like you said 10 year life was stupid.
Saturn is a good example of blackboxing since its documentation was so obscure devs didn't know what to do with it half the time. Lump Jaguar in there too.
Consoles are often clever with their resources, but less isn't more in these cases. Its actually just less and really good devs doing backflips to make it work.
>>320479978
There are webms of it posted about every place it's mentioned, newfag.
>>320484261
Graphene has always been "known" theoritically to exist but what only physically made in the past couple of decades via an accident (scotch tape on a graphite rock).
Quantum computing is a "relatively" new field where silicate processors are only becoming a feasible interface (since you need traditional CPUs to translate quantum superposition processing).
Graphene will most likely overtake silcate processors as the interface, but quantum computing is and now the future.
>>320477118
>>320477462
Bullshit. AMD was really poorly performing in contrast with Intel, and patches made it worse.
I definitely couldn't hold a steady framerate on a Phenom, even when it was OC'd.
>>320484184
Now tell me retard, do you think that a prototype processor is worth anything if they can't actually physically produce it in volume and put it in consumer devices?
Intel is currently researching a lot of things, they have a R&D department. Intel does not however have some magical processors they are holding back to keep up a release schedule because they are currently making the smallest fastest chips they can and selling them for thousands of dollars to datacenters.
If AMD came out tomorrow with some 6nm super low power high efficiency chip even if Intel had a prototype to compete they would not be able to release it because they don't have the actual manufacturing capabilities to do so.
>Moores law is marketing mumbo jumbo
>Scientist made some special transistor that if used in a CPU would cost 5 trillion dollars for a single CPU, Moores law is nothing but marketing mumbo jumbo!
Yeah you are really in the loop unlike the rest of the sheeple.
>>320484487
Time to wait for the AMD shill to show up and start screaming about some conspiracy going on.
>>320482737
>Its why we can't perfectly emulate gamecube games still, because the way PC's load games is so different from the way consoles do.
That's nonsense. Emulation is about how easily you can reverse engineer the console, and recompile the back into the x86/arm architecture. It's takes quite a lot of power and documentation to do, and good accuracy takes even more power to do well.
>>320484261
No, people have been working on quantum computing for nearly a generation now. That person is actually saying that we have something going other then a shakey maybe could be prototype.
And graphene can be made by bored shade tree engineers. Hell a graphene circuit boards can be printed with cheap materials right now.
Problem?
I've not heard anyone creating anything with it. It's all just "THIS SHIT IS COOL AS FUCK NIGGA" and that's really all I've seen.
Not like the infinitely self recharging battery where you can see it's possibility and put it to use immediately.
>>320484395
What at release because I played this shit yesterday and if it isn't a good headshot its not dropping someone in one hit. Can't speak for the online I've not gotten to it yet.
>>320484331
Very nice explanation m8.
>>320484487
You need to seriously stop posting pclab.pl pictures right now - they aren't intel shills, they just hate AMD with a burning passion. As for why - they got denied review samples a few years back and got turbo butthurt over it.
>>320484568
For a game that only hits 4 threads it runs fine on AMD.
>>320484576
I think he was talking about how some specific console only features can't be replicated using opengl or directx11 because the equivalent does not exists.
>>320484663
>You need to seriously stop posting pclab.pl pictures right now - they aren't intel shills, they just hate AMD with a burning passion.
And there's the conspiracy, >>320484568 you fucking called it.
>>320484635
In an ideal world you want your cpu as close to idle as possible while your gpu should be going flatout. Remember: a gpu can't do shit until the cpu tells it to.
>>320484635
I hope you are aware that because a CPU is just showing 25% usage doesn't means isn't being bottlenecked, Nvidia has a lot of paperwork done on this, you should head up to developers.nvidia.com and read more.
>>320484362
The problem wasn't some inherent to the PS3 though, it just has to do with how you code for it. If you were targeting the PS3 as your only system and understood the architecture you designed around it and it came out fine.
For the N64, didn't it also do some insane texture compression or something too for every texture that was present?
Also, didn't the PS1 flat out not support floating point operations, even for graphics operations?
How far we have fucking come. Now consoles are on a much closer unified architecture (sans the Wii U) and realistically closer to PC's and not just conceptually.
>>320484594
>new, emerging technology
>no immediate use for it because it's new and emerging
>IT'S FUCKING SHIT LOL
10/10 imitation of a retard anon
>>320484240
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/171375-reverse-engineered-ps4-apu-reveals-the-consoles-real-cpu-and-gpu-specs
http://www.tweaktown.com/news/36114/sony-confirms-the-ps4-s-eight-core-jaguar-apu-runs-at-1-6ghz/index.html
It had been known for long (at least 13 motnhs before release) that the Xbone and PS4 were using very gimped Jaguar AMD APUs which were first fabricated around 2009 or so.
These are the same APUs that were planned for AMD netbooks (note that these aren't notebooks but even weaker).
Combine this with the limited clock speed (less than 1.75Ghz) and a terrible core-by-core performance, and you have a recipe for slow processing and CPU bottlenecked performance.
These Jaguar APUs, are core-by-core twice as weak as the AMD desktop variants which are alreayd core-by-core twice as week as Intel desktop variants.
tl;dr; Xbone and PS4 APUs are pure, unadulterated shite that is literally holding back console graphics.
>>320484717
Its not a conspiracy at all, you retards just use that one image all the time when its the odd one out. All other GTA V benchmarks have the high end AMD chips performing on par with an i5, not below an i3.
>>320484492
Stop.
Moorse law has been proven to be absolute bullshit created to market computers to idiots. Nothing your posts says otherwise.
Intel does have technology on the back burner ready to dole out bit by bit to milk their consumer base.
This isn't some wild crazed conspiracy bitch. This is business as usual.
And your green text scenario is fucking stupid.
>>320484769
This has literally nothing to do with an explanation of how the PS4 CPU is bottle-necking it's GPU. You are literally talking about irrelevant things right now.
>>320484728
So you guys cannot actually explain it and are just spouting bullshit?
Like I said, there is no CPU bottleneck for the PS4.
>>320484576
>x86
Not exactly. You also have to get it to run in DirectX or OpenGL or Cuda or OpenCL too unless you want it to render with your CPU.
>>320484957
The CPU single thread performance is too slow to keep up with the GPU, was that simple know for you to understand because I don't think it can be further dumb down.
>>320484957
>Like I said, there is no CPU bottleneck for the PS4.
Complete and utter denial.
The defining traits of Sonyggerism.
How pathetic.
>>320484828
They are not conceptually closer. They are in fact laptop PCs with graphics cards that were considered mid tier when they were first releasd.
They gained the supposed ease of use and superiority of being an ibm clone but they lost the uniqueness that allowed them to be superior dedicated gaming machines that put them generations ahead of anything PCs could do.
>>320481527
>really good explanation
Hell, you weren't kidding. Thanks for posting that, it's damn cool.
>>320484663
Holy shit that site is awful for "budget PCs".
Pretty sure i5 combos are like $100 on ebay.
>>320484874
So you have literally no explanation for why it's bottlenecking it besides "If it was in a PC, it would be slow!"
Good to know you are confirmed for a retard. Hey, to make your case why don't you link your post to the GTA5 PC Lab bullshit about it running slow on AMD hardware! That will totally prove your point.
Also, your post was not too long or drawn out. You literally didn't explain a single thing. You didn't say any feature the CPU lacked or why it would bottleneck the GPU. You just keep saying over and over again that "BALBLABALBLA IT'S AN APU BLABLABLABLA"
>>320484957
>So you guys cannot actually explain it and are just spouting bullshit?
I'll explain it for you pleb. Due to various overhead involved in getting a gpu to render a scene (driver overhead, software overhead and the like) you don't want a cpu running flatout just with calculatingp hysics and whatever as you then run out of cpu resources i na given cycle to actually feed instructions to the gpu. A gpu ALWAYS benefits from being fed more and mroe tasks to keep it running at 100%, whereas a cpu benefits more and more from as having as much resources free for its own shit, rather than communicating with the gpu.
Thats the whole point of DX12 and vulkan in the pc space - to remove massive cycle hogging tasks that are involved with communicating with the gpu rather than (for example) calculating the bounce on lara's tits in tomb raider.
>>320484919
Then why wasn't Intel able to keep up production speeds for their new processor generation when they moved to a smaller fabrication process?
Why did they have to skip a fabrication process? Were they "calculating" losing money and deferring releases to make less money too?
Retard.
>>320485186
Pure Sonyggerism.
>>320484879
>>320484663
>>320484487
Keep in mind that Xbone and PS4 Jaguar APUs are less than a fourth as powerful, core-by-core and than Intel desktop CPUs.
>>320484828
Games for PS3 did use it better, but it basically had a hard limit that said you can only ever use 256 for graphics so no ability to use more for one thing and less for another. Which is how PCs do it basically but they have enough to work with it doesn't matter so much.
N64 compressed like crazy so yea. But 4kb is fucking small even for compress to fugly textures. And that 4kb is the rate of doing one texture, if you need more than one to load fast you had to make them smaller.
I don't recall on the PS1 honestly but I think it may have had a floating point limitation. I remember transparency was goofy on the Saturn though, which is why some games came off better on PS1 despite Saturn being the more powerful for 2D.
They really have come along way. Though I would say that is also what makes them obsolete.
In the race to get more power they have to sell off their good price point little by little, had to gain HDDs, patches, longer loading times, updates, more risk of failures, etc. Everything that puts people off PC is now in consoles but minus the flexibility and better hardware.
I sometimes miss PS1 being all I knew and seeming so many light years away from NES, but the NES still being uniquely fun in contrast. Now I want to buy a console, but the shits all the same, I just can't justify it for a few games.
>>320484843
The fuck are you talking about?
I think graphene is awesome and has amazing potential.
ANd i"ve been interested in quantum computing since they were trying to brew up organic computers because they believed that was the only way to concievably do it.
Shit was fucking awesome mindblowing stuff.
>>320485186
Queued frames, dumbass. doesn't matter if PC or Console
if the CPU speed is to slow it causes uneven workload between CPU & GPU which then requires buffering, but which can also raise timing issues, this is why you get so many games that can run at 60FPS and still feel laggy, or games that drop below 60FPS even though theyshow low GPU usage and low CPU usage.
>>320485016
Console rendering is multithreaded and has a much lower overhead than PC drivers. Is that too hard for you to understand?
>>320485105
>I don't know the PS4's architecture work, but I'm sure bloodborne could run at 30 fps on a netbook.
>>320485214
>Due to various overhead
>Driver overhead
>THE PS4 IS BEING BOTTLENECKED BY DRIVER OVERHEAD ON YOUR PC. TO MAKE YOUR PS4 RUN FASTER TURN OFF YOUR PC SO IT DOESN'T HAVE TO TALK TO YOUR GPU'S DRIVER AND GET PERMISSION TO RENDER THE GAME.
Got it, thanks for the tip.
ITT anon has no concept of what this image is (and while specific to DX12 the consoles work in a similar manner, just with less overhead).
>>320485271
Intels inability to get their slave chinese workers to produce good yields on time has fuck all to do with the quasi-theory in question.
The fuck are you talking about?
>>320485416
>>Due to various overhead
>Driver overhead
You still need software to commnunicate with the hardware fool and this adds all kinds of latency to scene render. Unless you think games are coded in Assembly or something.
Its easier to demonstrate this with pc orientated pictures due to more information being publically available - ps4's dev envireonment is under NDA for example but it doesn't change the basics of how the silicon works.
>>320485380
Except it has multiple cores and the architecture works so that you are not using a single thread to communicate to the GPU.
I seriously wonder if you people even know why people care about DirectX 12 or Vulcan or what is even good about them or why people are saying shit like "the optimization of consoles is coming to the PC!"
It's like you all heard the words "driver overhead" then your brains cut off or something and you figured that was the only feature.
>>320482384
I remember reading that there's some element that can only work so fast which limits the clock hertz until we find a different element (graphene?) to replace it.
>>320485564
god damn you are dumber than rock.
>>320485431
>Chart for illustrative purposes only
>Complete theoretical bullshit
>Try to hide this fact by making the * text blend into the background
AMD class.
memes law barely even effects video games
>>320485502
>I don't know how processors are made but some Chinese people probably make them
>>320485560
This conversation is starting to get annoying. Do you know why latency is such an issue on PC?
>It's easier to demonstrate with PC orientated pictures
No you retard it's an entirely different problem. You could make your GPU faster than it currently is now if you just built your own OS and specced your game to your specific GPU. There is literally no equivilant in a PS4 to a AMD or Nvidia graphics driver because there would be no fucking point.
>>320485678
>Meme
Fucking kill yourself you tryhard bandwagon faggot
>>320485619
It feels like he bought heavily into some marketing aimed at making Windows 10 relevant.
>>320485634
Of course its for illustrative purposes - the reality is far more complex and its not a technical slide - its aimed at plebs to get a rough grasp of what is going on.
>>320485186
Lemme explain how vidya graphics and processing works;
Player input -> Controller data -> CPU instruction -> System memory interface -> CPU instruction -> GPU instruction -> GPU VRAM interface -> GPU instruction -> CPU instruction -> System memory interface -> GPU instruction -> GPU display/rendering.
That's a single specific command from the player.
Imagine the CPU, being as underpowered and weak as it is in the Xbone and PS4, trying to process all of this in as billions of times a second.
All the processes have to go through the CPU before being rendered by the GPU. Most of the time the GPU is idly waiting for the CPU to give those specific instructions hence why you can have such ridiculous frame times (not frames per second), the time for each frame is rendered, and you get jittery performance.
>>320485619
>I don't know how the architecture works, but I know that it's all single threaded and requires a single fast thread to run well!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llOHf4eeSzc
I seriously question anybody in the thread has any clue whatsoever about the subject at hand and I doubt any of you have ever written any graphics code in your life.
>>320485698
Wait, you actually think there's a factory that says intel on it and they make all of their processors somewhere in america or something?
Okay, how do they make cpus. I"m genuinely interested in what you have to say.
>>320481285
>Why are you so vested in consoles when clearly they are holding back vidya?
You mean graphics, since graphics = vidya yeah?
Oh please do tell me what games on PC are so massively innovative and so fresh that there has been nothing like it before?
Or just fuck off you PCMR cuck.
>>320485832
stop posting already dumbass you are only embarrassing yourself.
>>320485708
nice meme post family
>>320485814
>Explaining how PC works
>Does entire thing on a single thread
>Clearly showing he doesn't actually know how instructions are sent to the GPU outside of a DX11/OpenGL context.
>>320485853
>Or just fuck off you PCMR cuck.
Where do you think we are? I think you shoudl go hide back at Neofags, Sonygger :^)
>>320481898
The SNES' CPU was a variant of the one used in Apple GSII, yes.´(Which IIRC was a part of the MOS 6502 family) It was produced by Ricoh went went under the name Ricoh 5a22.
And it was a fucking useless CPU. Almost all of the fancy tricks the SNES pulls is due to it's relatively advanced graphics chip or add-on chips in the cartridge.
>>320485698
>You could make your GPU faster than it currently is now if you just built your own OS
Better syncing to the timing of CPU and GPU yes, faster GPU no.
PS4 is still going to need software to communicate and coordinate like the other dude said. At some point down the line hardware has to handoff to another component and eventually translate to something we can understand. That introduces a potential slow down. It may be more effective if that software is unified within the OS as firmware in the device, but its not changing the job it does.
>>320482697
>Nickle and dime DLCs
The first DLC was the Y'keshka expansion for EverQuest 1 on PC. It all started on PC. The amount of F2P trash on PC is insane compared to whats available on the consoles. So wind your neck in, dickhead.
>>320485881
Because I actually have written graphics code and am not a retard on 4chan who doesn't know how system architectures work and think the PS4 is "bottlenecked" because single threaded performance?
If that is what is embarrassing me I'm only embarrassed because I choose to talk to you idiots.
>>320485952
Doesn't matter how many threads you have if they are slow as fuck, it will still cause Timing Discrepancy.
Holy shit why are you guys still arguing?
The bottom line that everyone can agree on is that the PS4 is weak as absolute fuck, and the Xbone is even weaker. A 260x for $100 beats out consoles.
>>320486030
watch out guys we got a professional here.
why dont you go cry to the beyond3d forums about how mean /v/ was to you.
>>320485965
It changes the latency by an order of magnitude however, meaning it is not an issue.
Or to put it another way, are you asserting that a game on the PC using DX12 can handle the same amount of draw calls as a PS4 and that the PS4 can't handle over 5 times more?
>>320486049
Oh yes, BF4, I remember playing through the shanghai level on PC, being chased by a tank through the back alleys, which didn't render at all.
PC wins again I guess?
>>320486049
The only thing consoles have going for them are the exclusives
If faggots one day stopped buying them there wouldn't be any exclusives as all vidya will stay on the PC
>>320485853
PC doesn't get the investment because its a less quantifiable market to target compared to ready made shitboxes they know the specs and sales numbers for.
Graphics are not the only limitation. Pretty pixels are nice, but so is draw distance, world size, world detail, environmental immersion, more NPCs, smarter NPCs, larger maps, more detailed maps.
Consoles aren't exactly holding back video games are they are currently a stable market to wave at shareholders, but they are something that will need to fade over time. The focus on them means every aspect of games can not be as flexible, graphics are just the easy to see obviously. Its harder to point at NPC population density in a city or physics breaking down and shitting itself because the frame rate changed (looking at you Bethesda)
>>320486036
This is probably the dumbest thing I've read so far.
>8 cores at 1.5 gh/z wont outperform 2 at 3 gh/z in this particular scenario
The only way you are right is in a process that requires heavy synchronization, which it turns out this isn't and scales wonderfully.
>>320485964
Yes that would be why I mentioned the PPU and how console had advantages over PC at the time, that they no longer have.
>>320485853
dwarf fortress :)
even though it is old
>>320477320
> its this guy again
Yes, Marketing costs have ballooned. But dev teams exploded. Ass Creed 1 was made by a team of 150 regulars. As Creed Syndicate by 500. If 50 people made you a mid large game in 2005, you need 3-4 times as many in 2015 largely because massive increase in required graphical work and online design.
test
>>320486414
Ever wonder at why the increase?
I mean is their really more content, or that big of a jump in the engine, or size of the world, etc. I get a lot of impressions that the Daikatana business model is getting popular. Both in marketing and in bloated teams.
>>320486347
I'd say that's true... In part anyway. The SNES' main rival the Mega Drive, while lacking in many of the SNES PPU's hardware tricks could approximate them via software programming.
So while the consoles certainly had the ease of convenience, I wouldnt say it was an exclusive right. I mean the PPU in the Mega Drive was... Either a Yamaha YM series chip... Or Texas Instruments chip, cant recall which one. It may have been Sega developed, and based off of the Master System (Due to the Megadrive's native backwards combatibilty). But who's to stop a manufacturer going to Yamaha or TI and ask for their graphics chips.
Surely a developer worth their salt would be able to approximate what the consoles did?
>>320485814
>All the processes have to go through the CPU
In a highly basic way anon. The CPU is just passing the plates between the real eaters.
Sure, it needs some power, but we clearly reached a time where CPUs have far enough power and aren't a bottleneck for games these days. At least, games these days.
If we get a video game with actual depth and complexity tomorrow, then yeah it'll be a bottleneck. But considering the industry right now, we're not there yet. I have an i3 and can max all fucking games on my $600 GPU with zero slowdown and near intantaneous load times.
>retards who've never programmed a game in their lives thinking they know how computers work
>>320487172
I'm the guy he is arguing with and you are not really right. It is actually a major bottleneck on PC and with new graphics API's it has essentially been "fixed," at least insofar as you can fix it.
>>320486872
yes there is more content you dumbass
look at the level of graphical fidelty in games now compared to the past
people actually have to make and program all those graphics, they dont come out of a magic box
>>320487117
Well they did during the NES with Commander Keen.
It was mostly just a funny point to make. Consoles were so bright and vibrant with their games. Amiga and C64 had good games, but nothing like Nintendo. Maybe not fair models to compare but my memory on PC models at the time is fuzzy. Had a C64 though.
But then Voodoo and the like came out and I really think that was the moment it was over. We just didn't know it yet. The moment we found a way around the CPU limitations, which is kind of what consoles were doing, but now in a much bigger way.
Good developers always find amazing ways to do things be it Rare beating good games into the N64s derpy ass, Doom running fast on slow machines, Pokemon Gold/Silver stuffing in more content then anything on GBC had a right to have, etc. But those first GPUs were a start of a new era for PC and the turning point where the unique tricks of consoles just didn't measure up as much anymore.
Think about the gen after. Xbox basically an old PC (P3 and slightly custom nvidia gpu iirc), PS2/GCN bit more custom but still farming out now more heavily to companies not too far removed from PC. The gen after that even more so. And this one even more again.
>>320486872
Well I have a good example which I always refer to.
I'm a software project lead, on totally not vidya, but I've seen some candidates coming from the vidya industry. And it's laughable. Guys are all top of the line when it comes to attending meetings, reporting to their manager, writing proper commit messages, tracking requirements... basically all the methodology. But on the technical and functional side? They've pretty much done nothing after 10 years.
There's this guy that's been working on damage markers at Ubisoft and spent 3 fucking years designing them, giving them the proper color that wouldn't hurt the feeling of this or that culture, making sure it wouldn't cause seizures, having it tested by people and adapting it based on their feedback... 3 FUCKING YEARS ON A RED HALF CIRCLE.
Some other guy had worked exclusively on adjusting the height of the character's viewpoint in first person shooters, the standing, crouching and crawling viewpoints, making sure it's fitting with the height of walls used for covers. 2 FUCKING YEARS ADJUSTING 3 FUCKING NUMBERS
Then came a fucking veteran. Guy had been a developer for three decades, he pretty much made a third of the coding on each game he worked on, from the engine to the installer, but also had modeled some stuff, wrote quests and story, designed characters, created levels... he got sick with the video game industry because he became overqualified for it, saying with his own words: "yeah it's shit".
That's what is happening: publishers don't trust devs, they want to control everything, and they asphyxiate dev teams.
Games aren't more complex and expensive to make, this is a lie. They got more complex because the tools to make them got better, that's it, so with the same amount of work, you get way superior efficiency and quality.
The real issue is that 99% of staff are overpaid managers and directors, and the devs themselves are cucked as hell.
>>320485853
>You mean graphics, since graphics = vidya yeah?
Yes, a visual medium's capabilities are absolutely dictated by its graphical technologies.
Go ahead and pretend Dark Souls could exist with verbatim gameplay of today on a SNES
>>320482050
Looks blurry as hell for some reason.
>>320485853
>since graphics = vidya yeah?
Yes, actually. Do please go show me how you'd make MGSV with all its features using only 2D graphics from the SNES era.
>>320485970
>DLC
>Expansion
Nope.
>But you download it! That makes it DLC!
Ok lets play that game
https://www.wikiwand.com/en/GameLine
Thanks for DLC, consoles
The video game industry is multi billion dollar industry. and currently it's all directed into unlocking the power of these underpowered shitboxes.
>>320487640
>Amiga and C64 had good games, but nothing like Nintendo
nigga back that shit up, the amiga was amazing in its day. a lot of its games blew the consoles out of the water.
>>320487797
I never really got some of the game industry shit.
>Go to San Fransisco for some Intel Event.
>Bastion developer giving a talk
>Talking about how it was to work at EA
>Talked about a guy who literally made rocks for 10 years
This games are expensive shit needs to die. Of course making a game is expensive when a persons job title is "rock guy" and he is paid 60 thousand dollars a year to make fucking rocks.
>>320487906
That would actually be pretty easy. It would literally be a high fidelity Doom type thing, except even the walls will be 2d projection techniques.
>>320487797
>Games aren't more complex and expensive to make, this is a lie. They got more complex because the tools to make them got better, that's it, so with the same amount of work, you get way superior efficiency and quality.
This is complete bullshit, wrong opinions and assumptions backed by anecdotal evidence. The more detailed graphics and environments become the more work they take to create. Modern games have more work put into them than ever before. Not trying to say it makes them good, just don't sit there crafting your silly conspiracy theories when you have an extremely limited idea on how game production actually works
>>320487362
Graphical fidelity has little to do with the size of a dev team. Photoshop and Maya didn't suddenly gain the ability to work with larger files between Ass 1 and now. Those textures get scaled down from the originals, this process helps polish out flaws in digital art. And a lot of those pretty graphics have more to do with better rendering of textures than the textures themselves. It was one of the earliest fan fixes in Oblivion.
I can't say much for Creed as Ive played few of them, but most modern games so to be getting shorter or less content. Skyrim and Battlefront come to mind.
And again you want to bring it back to graphics to make that the only thing that gets limited. What about how interactive NPCs are, that shit seems to be getting boiled down to the basics pretty hard these days. Did we need 50 more people so we could have a dialogue wheel these days? Or does it take 100 level designers to make things on rails?
Marketing plays a part. Tech plays another. You can butcher an old engine to add a new feature to throw at gaming magazines or you can pay out the ass to make/rent a new one. Its a desperate move to stand out in a swollen market, see hey look we made a dog in this for details. Or to pay for a big name to work on the game because fanboys will buy out.
There are exceptions. I can see a big team on GTA V that is a large map with a lot of detail in every corner. But in games with shrinking options, shrinking maps, shrinking content, minor graphics upgrades, and growing teams like many others that money is being spent on whores and blow for all its reflecting in game.
>>320487906
What features of MGSV5Five WOULDN'T be possible with 2D visuals in your opinion?
>>320488224
I think you have no idea how much time devs spent back in the day making vidya graphics. No fucking idea.
With current tools and current level of graphics, making visual, audio or game content assets is way easier and faster than making them 20 years ago with the tools people had 20 years ago. Efficiency really has gone through the roof. That is, if you work full time and don't spend most of your day reporting to your manager.
You should get BIRD16 and try to make some animated sprites with it. I'm ready to wait for 10 years before you are able to make one in under a month.
>>320487906
Challenge accepted fagget. This shall be my next game.
>>320485970
Oh boy, where to start on this
Firstly, Y'keska was like the 4th expansion for Everquest alone, so it's not the first anything.
Secondly, expansions are not DLC. And if you're going to play the semantics game about "but it's content that is downloadable" then please let me direct you to:
Atari GameLine (Atari 2600, 1983)
Famicom Modem (Famicom, 1988)
Satellaview (Super Famicom, 1995)
Sega Channel (Genesis, 1994)
Randnet (N64 Japan, 1999)
So yeah, go can place the origin and blame for DLC squarely on consoles.
>>320487797
Now this I could see happening. God damn I miss Doom. 3 million hours of play out of a game made on a few toasters by a few dudes in a lake house. I feel we sold our souls and content for ragdoll physics and shaders.
>>320488061
It was, but my C64s awesome 16 color display really didn't look as nice as Mario 3. I mean yea Ultima had crushing depth compared to Tetris, but I defy anyone not to have the music and fun of Megaman stuck in their very being for life. The ability to basically load more than one screen at a time and have it rendered off the monitor/TVs edge was revolutionary and something PC just wasn't doing at the time.
>>320479572
this. AC is wonderful, but the optimization fuckin sucks balls
>>320488285
>Graphical fidelity has little to do with the size of a dev team.
It has everything to do with the size of the dev team. You think scaling up the textures means increasing graphical fidelity? It means finding whole new techniques to create textures, to shade worlds, to animate characters, to create content. 80-90% of the work put into games is directly or indirectly related to the level of graphical fidelity. That's what sells lots of copies. Even a game like Fallout 4, with lots of content and mediocre graphics and animation, could be made by a very small team if it was simple 2D sprites
>>320488285
>Photoshop and Maya didn't suddenly gain the ability to work with larger files between Ass 1 and now
Actually a lot of the game development pipeline has become so efficient that a lot has occured in that time. There are softwares today built around cutting a good 90% of the time off creating a shader (through GUI no less) than it took 5 years ago.
since you guys like talking about old games tech here's a specs table for old consoles
>>320488809
This is pretty neat. Finding specs for old consoles is toughshit.
>>320488456
I've been a video game developer for 20 years. People spend even more time now making graphics now than they ever did. In the past you could have 2-3 dedicated artists making sprites for your game and it would be enough. Now you have teams of 20-30 or even larger making incredibly detailed 3d characters and worlds. Of course the tools are more efficent. You can't even compare the paint programs used to make sprites to the multi-program pipeline required to make modern 3d graphics
>>320479927
GTA IV already had realistic bullet impacts and that was back in 2008.
>>320479857
550 ti runs this game like shit but my 750 ti gets med-high at upwards of 60 fps
>>320488913
They spend more time why exactly? Because of shitty management? Because of shifting priorities? Because of retarded QA requests? Because of work being so broken down in parts that the slightest change influence the work of a dozen?
Just look at modern games made by more "traditional" studios, like those in Russia and eastern Europe: small teams, small budgets, high quality games delivered in record time.
There really is no secret, it's the whole western development model that is wrong.
>>320484957
>there is no CPU bottleneck for the PS4.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clQfCP3NFuc
AC:Unity begs to differ, the crowds are CPU intensive, and the XB1's slightly higher clocked CPU combined with its extra CPU-Core which was available to devs at the time gives the Xbox an edge in crowds and particle effects.
>>320489025
Do you remember how good people getting shot looked in Red Dead Redemption? What happened in GTA V?
>>320488748
>new techniques to create textures, to shade worlds, to animate characters, to create content
The fuck are you on. The tools to make textures, animate, etc have been the same for awhile, in fact easier due to increase in power reducing rendering time. Maya, 3DMax, Photoshop, motion capture this shit didn't suddenly require another 100 people in the last ten years. It actually requires less hardware now.
Shading is the only thing in that list that requires programming. But guess what, the engines are recycled for multiple games in most cases. This means we are not doing fucking shit. This is level design and add new art assets where we can't recycle old ones. Tweak engine as needed. Fuck me have you never played with a level design get, IDE, or hell go give Unreal a test drive its free to fuck around in.
Hell that is why sequels make so much damn money, its because they don't take the investment anymore. Want an example, look at Hitman, they made that fucker from scratch and it hurt hard that it wasn't well received, but hey it was pretty. Now that game had reason for a large team.
What sells copies is hype and branding. Most AAA is selling to those people that buy very few games but have narrow tastes. They buy their Bethesda games because its a brand. FO4 didn't take a million artists to color dirt, or make its meh graphics, or even code its already existing game engine.
>>320479314
I'm sorry but I just can NOT see the PS4 and Xbone lasting as long as the PS3 and 360, we're only 2 years into this console generation and devs are already bitching about the current consoles not being able to do what they want without making major sacrifices and wanting better hardware to work with
With Sony and MS so dependant on 3rd parties it's only a matter of time before enough of them come together to get what they want out of them, and I can assure you it will be long before we hit the decade mark
>>320488806
That is somewhat my point. Same tools more power. The requirements are getting lower and cheaper now more expensive. Hell its why there are so many indie games now, the barrier to entry is lower.
