After 15 years we never knew this game basically had the equivalent of Brawl tripping.
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/4pcfbv/melee_on_console_how_much_input_lag_is_there_and/
>inb4 reddit
I'll post the shit ITT so you don't have to degrade yourself.
>This post is a little long, but I promise it's interesting. Here are the spoilers to those questions: over the course of a match 25% of all of your inputs are being delayed by 1 extra frame (pretty much at random). Also, melee, as measured with the best equipment to this point, has between 3.6f and 5.0f total input lag. I talk about why this happens, and I also talk about what proof I have regarding these claims. Also, check out this gif!
Input Lag
>When we talk about input lag, what we’re referring to (or should be referring to) is the total time it takes for your button press to be reflected in a change on screen. This process involves a lot of steps but input lag as a term just lumps everything together. This includes transmission time (meaning the full time it takes for a CRT/Monitor to draw a frame). Because Melee on console runs at 59.94 Hz, this means that one frame of Melee takes about 16.7ms just to display on a screen.
So when a button is pressed, eventually a character will do something. Input lag is the total time it takes for that process to conclude. I am going to be calling the frame on which a change occurs (and a the process concludes) the “change frame” for simplicity’s sake. When you press a button, this is the frame where the change has occurred.
Equipment Used
>In order to measure from the first moment a button was pressed until the end of the change frame, I needed a precise way of knowing when a button was pressed and I needed a precise way of recording when the end of the change frame was. I modded a Nintendo brand Smash 4 controller so that it would light up an LED when it was plugged in, and turn off the LED when the B button was pressed. The idea behind the operation of the controller mod is here. The LED is always connected across the button, but uses too much voltage to allow the controller to register a button press. But when you “short” the LED circuit, the voltage is now sufficient across the button to register a button press. This results in a very fast turn off of the LED and a very fast turn on of the voltage across the button. Here are two images of the controller mod in full. This mod can be adapted for any digital button on the GC controller. My mod makes the controller unplayable, but if you are careful and drill holes, it doesn’t have to break it for actual playing. This is a pretty cheap and easy mod as far as mods go, and it’s a pretty simple way of testing input lag.
>The camera is a Casio Exilim ZR-850 which can shoot up to 1,000 fps at a whopping 224x64 resolution. We only need to see a slice of the CRT though, so this is sufficient. It takes shots every 1ms which gives us about 17 camera frames per frame of melee. For my melee setup, I used a Wii with component cables that fed into a Startech CPNT2VGA converter which outputs VGA laglessly to a VGA-CRT monitor. The total time it takes for the component signal to be converted in the first line of the CRT on my setup is about 1.3us. I measured that a while ago and show that here if you are interested. This is all to say that it is in 480p and the extra components and the monitor do not add lag.
Measurements
>I recorded myself shorting the LED circuit about 200 times at 1,000fps. I then edited down the videos until I had 51 individual shots in which the LED went from completely on to completely off in one 1ms frame. I then counted from the first camera frame the LED was turned off until the very end of the change frame. This number (converted into time) ranged from 60ms-83ms or 3.6 frames – 5.0 frames of lag. Here are three different lag timings 82ms, 60ms, and 73ms which show some of this data. I use G&W’s chef move because it is a large area of the screen that goes from colored to black on Yoshi’s Story. The animation comes out on frame 1 which is same as fox’s shine. The hit box comes out later though. I also counted how long into a frame of melee the LED turned off. This is how I judge when during a game cycle the button is pressed and reference each press to one another. A 1ms turn off time would mean that it turned off at the top of the frame, and a 17 ms time means that it turned off at the very bottom. I then plotted the turn off time against the total input lag. I saw a very clear correlation between when the LED turned off in a frame, and the total input lag. This plot can be found here. As you can see, for a time between 1-8ms there are two possibilities for the time that your move will come out. If you press at 8ms after the frame of Melee began, you are equally likely to have your move come out either 60ms later or 76ms later. The idea that your button press can come on one of two frames at an equal rate is weird, but it was even weirder that it wouldn’t happen for the lower half of the screen. Only the timings of 1-8ms would result in two possible times. Times 9-17ms would only have one option available.
Explanation
>This occurs because your button press is actually a sequence of four events before Melee even starts to act on that button press. First, you must press the button. Second, the GameCube/Wii has to poll the controller and store it in a hardware buffer. Third, the software has to poll the hardware buffer and transfer it into a software buffer. Then last, Melee/the game engine needs to call it from that software buffer. So you are trying to sync four things in a particular order. If everything is fixed in place on a 60Hz cycle, the max difference between the lowest input lag and the highest should be 16.7ms. If you just miss something, you have to wait a full frame for it to come back around again. But this isn’t what happens. Sometimes you have to wait more than a full frame. Why?
Let’s assume that the game engine is fixed at 60 Hz (melee is 60fps), and the hardware poll is fixed at 120Hz. Then the other two events, the button press and the software poll, can come at any time. This results in only four distinct timing sequences. These four are depicted here. As it turns out, these four scenarios result in only 3 different outcomes. If you are very lucky and get a good poll and a good press, melee can recognize your press in as little as 0.5f. If you are very unlucky and get both a bad poll and a bad press, melee can take up to 2.0f to recognize your press. The other two scenarios both result in a press between 1.0-1.5f and both happen to come from when you press in the lower half of the screen. And we see three distinct regions in the data. It’s important to note that those numbers (0.5-2.0f) exclude the other parts of input lag. The total input lag varies between 3.6f and 5.0f for vanilla melee on console with a CRT when all of the other bits are taken into account.
Results
>What does this mean for your play on console + CRT? It means that at any given point, if you press a button while the top half of the CRT is being drawn, it can come out at one of two times. When looked at from a larger perspective (over the course of a match): If button presses are completely random, this means that 50% of button presses will be in the top half, and 50% will be in the bottom. Of those in the top half, for any given button press 50% will come out at a frame later. For a total of 25% of all button presses during a match. Does it mean that a sequence that is two frames long will fail because of variable timing? Because the figure is an average, it doesn’t consider a frame by frame picture. The good/bad poll cycle goes through a full revolution once every 10-15 seconds. During that whole time, it will change the timing of the poll only twice. Once when it goes from good to bad, and once when it goes from bad to good. But that change happens over the course of one frame. When the shift happens, and the polling time changes from late to early, there will be a disjoint. Moves made before the polling time change will come out earlier, and moves that were made after the polling time changes, will come out later (in the case in which the timing resets). So it is possible that you could input a two frame sequence and find it stretched out to three frames. (TASing suggests that when this shift happens that no moves are accepted on this frame, but this behavior with the switching frame has not been confirmed in real life). But that only happens 2 frames out of 600-900. When in either of the two domains, early or late polling, the muscle memory timing will still hold up. If you have learned those moves, via muscle memory they will still come out in the order that you expect them to. Just, they might come out one frame later.
>I have been working with Dan Salvato and through our conversations he informed me that one of the options that is available to us as a community is to implement the fix that he developed for Dolphin on console. Because the software polling timing is controlled by melee’s code, and melee’s code is causing this problem, this is something that is possible to change. To be clear, this change will make it so that all polls are good polls. Instead of a 3.6f-5.0f difference, there will now be a 3.6f-4.5f difference. But it will be significant in two ways: 1) it will prevent any odd switching behavior and 2) it will make sure that an early press on a frame will always come out when it is supposed to and not one frame later. I have not yet tested his new code via the same method as I have showed above, but it is next on my list of things to do.
So the TLDR is because of polling, both from the TV and Melee's coding, is that right? I'll give it a full read after I get home but that's something people knew not that long ago.
Also I guess it's more of a r/smashbros thing than reddit in general in this case since r/SSBM is the actually competitive-driven page.
>>342392648
We knew the game had lag, just from how Melee/CRTs work, but we didn't know it had an extra frame of lag with a bad poll and a bad press.
And obviously this extra frame of lag is unpredictable and affect 25% of your inputs.
How about people play SD remix?
>being this autistic
Wow, this literally IS tripping. Or, maybe even more accurately, it's even closer to the intentionally programmed random 1-3 frames input lag in Brawl. Wow, I never expected this, Melee is literally Brawl.
>>342393454
>we want the PM audience
nah
>>342394320
Is this sarcasm?
meleefags being reddit invaders once again confirmed
fuck off
>>342394959
This is nothing new. Us meleefags have always been browsing Reddit, even when /v/ had its Reddit scare a few years back, Melee threads were a safe space where people could safely share interesting Reddit posts.
But this does not mean we are from Reddit, it just means we are mature enough to not get triggered by a website.
>This much autism to give a fuck about a single delayed frame.
Holy shit just stop.
>>342395613
there's a lot of frame perfect inputs in melee anon
I understand that having this much technical knowledge is a great thing, but it's also great to know when to stop
>>342394347
Melee has nothing on SDR, the top tiers are unchanged.
>"All of this is extremely cool. However, if you are inclined to think it's a "game changer" or will have huge impact on competitive Melee, then I would like to respectfully ask you to reconsider and also to get good at Melee. If this literally took lab-class equipment to detect in the first place, then you can assume it probably doesn't make an enormous difference in competitive play."
Jesus christ, just move on. Fighting games are not supposed to be played competitively this long. It's been 15 god damn years.
>>342396660
t. no name shitter
>>342391838
I thought I heard about this exact shit last year. There was some hubbub about emulator players making a modded "lagless melee" and making a big deal about it, when in fact what they'd done was inefficient and was fixed/done by more competent modders a bit later in a much less roundabout way, and without the creation of some "new mod/version" of melee which was dividing players. This is all information I either knew about since forever or heard about a while ago.
>>342397390
This is literally different.
>>342397359
>getting triggered by a quote
>>342398805
Post still stands.
>>342395326
>we
Speak for yourself, meme man.
>>342395326
fuck off redditor
Wow i'm so proud of you!
I wonder if you would write a book after having sex for the first time. Don't let the autism take over you
>>342395326
This tbqh
>>342397340
>he doesn't play third strike
Wow what a casual who doesn't play fightans
>Melee Is RNG
>still playing melee
>fucking COMPETITIVELY
>this autismlevel
>HYPE SHITSTORM DISCLAIMER
All of this is extremely cool. However, if you are inclined to think it's a "game changer" or will have huge impact on competitive Melee, then I would like to respectfully ask you to reconsider and also to get good at Melee. If this literally took lab-class equipment to detect in the first place, then you can assume it probably doesn't make an enormous difference in competitive play.
Thanks for reading and shoutouts to everyone who worked together on this!
Who knew /v/ would be the ones to lose their shit over this, wow!
God this board is awful.
>Somewhere in Japan, Sakurai laughs that Meleefags are playing a RNG simulator competitively this whole time
>>342399831
Meant to quote all of this:
HYPE SHITSTORM DISCLAIMER
All of this is extremely cool. However, if you are inclined to think it's a "game changer" or will have huge impact on competitive Melee, then I would like to respectfully ask you to reconsider and also to get good at Melee. If this literally took lab-class equipment to detect in the first place, then you can assume it probably doesn't make an enormous difference in competitive play.
Thanks for reading and shoutouts to everyone who worked together on this!
Heh...Smash 4 wins again, it seems
>>342400197
Smash 4 has 8 frames of input delay.
>>342400252
and a 10-frame input buffer
>>342400252
>>342400415
GG.
Melee fucking wins again.
"All of this is extremely cool. However, if you are inclined to think it's a "game changer" or will have huge impact on competitive Melee, then I would like to respectfully ask you to reconsider and also to get good at Melee. If this literally took lab-class equipment to detect in the first place, then you can assume it probably doesn't make an enormous difference in competitive play."
Literally get good.
>>342397359
>No name shitter
>Creator of the 20XX mod for Melee
Bow your head and end your life.
>>342400780
>I should bow my head to some sub top 200 codemonkey
I'd prolly shit on him with Pichu.
>>342400252
So does street fighter v, your point?
This sound really boring.
>>342400780
He didn't create the 20XX mod, that was Achilles. 20XX and 20XXTE are different projects. I really wish they would have picked different names for their projects.
I always see Dan Salvato getting credited for making 20XX, and I think that's pretty unfair because Achilles is a much better coder imo (and he doesn't have an ego the size of saturn)
>>342401154
It's literally more important than your entire life.
I'm not kidding. This one frame could have skewed millions of dollars of revenue and billions of games.
>>342391838
>"competitive" community builds "skills" off of abusing glitches and bugs
>patch out a bug because they find it problematic
lmao
>>342391838
>fluctuating input lag
>fluctuates by one frame
Eh, we'll be fine.
>>342400949
shut up jason
>>342395326
I don't care
>>342400975
Street Fighter V is fucking trash compared to IV
>>342401331
I doubt it.
>>342401376
Lets see what one frame can change:
>invincible ledge dash
>missing it = lose your stock
>literally everything else
>>342397340
There needs to be a word for hot and disgusting at the same time.
Not since Chris Chan have I seen autism so astounding. I'm honestly in awe.
This isn't an issue worth mentioning even. This is mostly geared towards netplayers, trying to reduce lag as little as possible. All top competitive players will always play with a Melee disc on a Wii/GC
It's not like this is some brand new thing nobody knew about and have to adjust to. It's always been a part of the game, and players have subconsciously adjusted to it after thousands of hours of gameplay.
This will not affect the game in any way, people aren't going to play different or make new strategies or do anything differently. They just have to keep playing the way they do and take any flubbed inputs
>>342401670
Believe it, fuck ass. You nothing compared to Melee. A single poop follicle in the underwear of Smash.
End your goddamn life.
>>342401675
that's not how it works, read the post
essentially the game switches between having a slight delay and not having one every 15~ seconds or so
the entire input of a ledgedash is literally like 15 frames long, if that
the chances of the delay kicking in DURING a ledgedash is miniscule, and wouldn't change anything anyway because it's all one input that you do at once that doesn't require visual/audio cues on the part of the player
i hope that makes sense, but if not just read the post
>>342401874
mild kek
>patch
Why the fuck are they patching this?
I thought they were fine with the game as it was?
>>342401874
Probably not.
>>342401829
>insanely popular competitive game with a large tournament scene and a lot of followers, a multimillion dollar scene and a lot of nerds that research the game because they enjoy it
>people do research on how the game inputs work
>autistic
t. a casual gamer that thinks he is sick because he beat dark souls 3 on his xbone and has played earthbound one time
>>342402161
Don't you know anon? Autism is used when people can't understand whats going on or just can't get good.
>>342402091
Yeah, and why this bug and not other bugs? If you start altering the game it fragments the competitive community into pro-patch and purists and if you patch this bug why not patch other bugs? Why is this one so important? There is other glitchy unintended stuff that people are expected to exploit to fight competitively why is that okay?
>>342400949
No you wouldn't Dan Salvato would body the fuck outta you. His link is godlike.
>>342402161
Are "casual gamers" those who play games for entertainment then get on with their fucking lives? Great insult anon.
>>342391907
>>342392029
>>342392150
>>342392283
>>342392419
>>342392541
In english, doctor.
>>342402723
And who are you to judge what someone does for entertainment? Some people like looking deeper into things. That's pretty autistic anon, why don't you just let people live their lives?
>>342395326
>speaks about maturity
>on an anonymous website
>thinks anyone cares
kill yourself
>>342401675
invincible ledge dash isn't a one frame input anon.
>>342402723
Yes that's what casual means, if you don't see how that mindset negatively affects a scene as competitive as Melee's then you are just dumb
>>342401376
>one frame
>these people somehow notice
Melee tourneyfags truly are autistic.
>>342403510
read >>342402351 tr4sh baby
>>342403510
You do realize how fucking fast 1 frame is right?
>yfw
>>342403239
>that's pretty autistic anon
I doubt you even know what you're trying to say at this point, keep memeing my friend, I suggest cuck, nu-male and beta for your next post.
Godspeed.
>>342403708
This will be the tournament where someone finally 3peats a super major
That's actually really interesting, but leave it to /v/ to call anything that requires any sort of effort and/or time investment "autism"
>>342400252
No it doesn't. If you're thinking about that youtube video ages ago talking about controller input lag taking 7 frames before an input comes out, that was WRONG.
He was using a CRT for a HD game because retards told him CRTs were lagless and he should use those for the test. That caused the input lag.
>>342403708
Tristate needs to step up it up for melee majors.
I don't wanna travel to commiefornia to play this game.
Even Paragon left the east coast.
What the fuck?
>basically had the equivalent of Brawl tripping
1 frame of potential input delay is nothing compared to 45 frames of helplessness
>>342395764
which nobody uses regularly outside of TAS because it isn't humanly consistent.
melee is deep but people will NEVER be on the level of performing one frame inputs consistently.
>>342403790
>Not since Chris Chan have I seen autism so astounding. I'm honestly in awe.
Right back at you buddy
>>342400252
>>342400505
That's not changing the fact that Sm4sh is BTFO of everything at CEO
>>342403708
literally when
>>342404075
>people will NEVER be on the level of performing one frame inputs consistently
Actually this is more common than you think, though only replicable if there's a rhythm to it. Frame perfect execution can be done reliably with enough practice, given that muscle memory is involved.
This definitely is not the case with reaction times, however
>>342404301
Fucking January 2017
what the fuckCan you believe it already has 500 attendees?
>>342404301
same time as last year.
january 20th
>yfw 3 gods already registered
>>342391838
If what I'm reading is that Melee only checks for inputs during certain frames, we've known about this. For a while.
You can make an input and if you miss the window, it isn't registered until it checks again.
Only read the first part of the blog because I'm lazy, but this is what I'm assuming its talking about
>>342404301
January 2017 brah. It's in commiefornia so expect to pay a shit ton in money unless you get housed though.
>>342401354
You really don't think bugs can aid a game's skill ceiling?
Combos in street fighter were a bug and are now official mechanics. Juggling in Devil May Cry came from a bug in Onimusha.
There's a difference between bugs that aid the game's depth and a bug that just adds another layer of randomness.
>>342391838
>>>>>>>Gamebreaking
This isn't game breaking. If no one noticed this or cared about it for 15 years then it doesn't make a difference. Suddenly knowing this info now isn't going to cause everyone to start fucking up their tech skill, in fact it's probably just going to lead retards to go "FUCK, THAT 1 FRAME OF INPUT DELAY CAUSED ME TO MESS UP :((((" when in actuality they just messed up.
It's neat to know but it being there or not isn't going to change anything.
>>342404301
Like under 24 hours ago.
Melee already has almost 400 attendees
>>342404075
Are you retarded or something? Players have been consistent at 1frame links in other fighting games even without plinking.
Consistency being around 70 or so percent. And if you have dropped inputs that drastically reduces your consistency.
>>342404165
>yfw melee still gets more views despite less entrants, less top players, and a worse timeslot
top fucking kek
I'm considering going to a local on Saturday, probably U and Melee. Any advice?
>>342404548
I'm almost expecting Leffen to complain about it at one point.
>>342404165
>most casual game in a tournament gets a fuckton of attendees
>>342404696
Shower before going
>>342392283
an a press is an a press, you can't say it's only 1/4
>>342404075
>people will NEVER be on the level of performing one frame inputs consistently.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRY0aMbSZEM
>>342404708
Not other anon but I definitely agree it sounds like something he would say.
>>342404696
Play a fuckton of friendlies after going 0-2 in bracket.
>>342399943
The man is a ruse legend. How can he keep getting away with it?
>>342404696
Try not to worry about winning/losing so much, especially if it's your first tourney. Just chill, play some friendlies and try not to get 0-2'd in both games.
When will it be the standard in tourneys?
>>342404750
Of course,
>>342404861
I'm sure the people there will be nice, considering we share similar interests, but I can't help but feel nervous about that. I think a guy I know is going, so it might not be too bad.
>>342404819
>>342404574
>in other fighting games
Yeah ever wonder why they aren't consistent in Melee though, kids? There's a lot more accurate inputs you have to perform regularly in comparison to other fighting games, so the sequences of one frame inputs are much closer together and almost humanly impossible to pull of regularly.
If that wasn't the case, you'd be able to show me another example or cite someone showcasing frame perfect tech in melee rather than other fighting games.
>>342401874
>poop follicle
Does poop even have follicles?
How will this development change his gameplan?
>>342405284
oh no my bair got messed up because of 1 frame
>>342395326
>we
>>342391838
i don't think this is a big deal at all desu fampai
>>342399591
B-but mah wavedashan
Literally only applies to Fox multishining more than 3 or 4 times.
>>342404974
I'm hoping I'll get some friendlies. I haven't played another person for a while, I've no way to play anyone else at home.
>>342405284
Thought MLG literally only cared about CoD nowadays?
Plus MLG TV is literal shit.
>>342405284
i want melee to die so i can finally see hungrybox fail
>>342405074
>Our one frame links are harder!
It's the same time frame, doesn't matter the game.
>Melee is a perfect game
>>342405650
Melee at MLG was a disaster last year, the only top players that went were like Mew2king, Hungrybox, Wizzy and DruggedFox. Then next best was like Prince Abu.
>>342405694
Hungrybox would be the least affected top player by Melee's death though
>>342405694
he would play sm4sh or PM and rekt shit.
Good fundamentals travel across all games.
>>342399943
>>342391838
>This literally took lab-class equipment to detect
Imagine being this autistic
Well, this is more of a reason for Melee HD to become a thing, ammiright guys?
This is actually fucking serious. Your play in-game can be fucked over by pure RNG?
Why not just play fucking competitive Hearthstone at this point?
>>342405694
anon hes got a job and a gf, he's fine without the extra money
>>342405940
hbox isn't that great at sm4sh though, and pm probably won't outlive melee
>>342406081
>his favorite game isn't so deep it requires lab class equipment to analyze
>>342405694
Hbox is norman the normie extreme.
M2K is the person you would have to worry about familia.
Hell even Mango could probably commentate Esports or some shit once melee dies.
>>342405694
he's like the only smasher with a legitimate adult job. He's the only one who would seamlessly transition into a melee-less life.
M2K and Mango would be absolute trainwrecks if they didn't have melee
>>342394320
Wow, literally!Learn how to communicate.
We all know Doom is still alive today, but has any other game besides Melee got MORE popular as time went on?
15 years old and it's bigger than when it was released.
>>342406603
>>342406646
M2K still has tr4sh.
mang0 is a very popular streamer and could live off that.
PPMD is a autistic neet anyways.
idk what the fuck Leffen and Armada would do
>>342406793
TF2
>>342406646
>the 2 most popular smashers in the world would be trainwrecks if they didn't have melee
no, both of them would be well taken care of by their fans/sponsors.
You think fucking Scar would let mango work at mcdonalds or something?
>>342406856
Leffen would play street fighter
>>342406793
If Doom is still alive why hasn't there been a good Doom game in 22 years?
>>342391838
fuck off
>>342406892
tf2 is dead
>>342406915
Or Dota 2
>>342395326
>Us meleefags have always been browsing Reddit,
>>342407018
You must be fucking stupid
>I'll post the shit ITT so you don't have to degrade yourself.
>>342407018
If you think reddit is cancerous but /v/ isn't I've got news for you.
>>342406856
PPMD is actually going for his doctorate. He probably has a day job aswell like Hbox.
Armada actually took a break from the game around 2012 until Evo 2013 to actually get his shit together in life.(This was before anyway expected Melee to get huge.)
Leffen is like 19/20 so hey still has time to develop some skills.
>>342407018
>posting a reddit tier meme character
Kill yourself
>Gamebreaking bug
>one random frame of input delay
come on
Someone answer me this.
The Melee community has existed for 15 years.
Now they found this thing and want to patch it.
Why?
The community has played this game like this since forever.
So why?
Why does it matter that they found this?
>>342407445
It doesn't matter. It's just a shitpost to get a melee thread going on /v/.
>>342401748
Trashy
>>342404585
>Muh-Muh views!
Wow those 12 year old stream monsters surely are playing Melee and contributing to the Melee scene alright!
>>342407445
because it's "basically like brawls tripping"
you know this thing that took 15 years to realize? It's just as annoying and bad as tripping
>>342407182
>>342407203
Fuck off back to where you came from. You guys are one the main reasons this board is shit now. You deserve no proper discussion the moment you post info form that shitposting site here, same with Kotaku
>>342407445
You'd be surprised how autistic the Melee fanbase is.
>>342407621
>>342407445
I don't think the actual pros care about it as much as you think they do.
>>342407445
They don't want to patch it. Nobody who plays melee at major tournaments cares about this in the slightest, they will always play the vanilla disc on a Wii or GameCube.
This is more geared toward netplay warriors, who already have to deal with internet lag, and want to lower the input lag as low as possible.
The only people who seem to be throwing a big hissy fit about his are people like you who don't even own the game
>>342407025
It's dying now, yeah. But when the F2P thing happened, the community got huge.
>>342407782
>OP posts information with citation
>HURRR REDDIT REDDIT REDDIT *IGNORING USEFUL INFORMATION*
Actually I take that back, your post has convinced me that Reddit is LESS cancerous than this shit-hole, and I've been here for 7 years.
>>342407589
It gives it more exposure.
There's a reason why Melee's storylines are on ESPN articles and Smash 4 storylines are in the tr4sh
>>342391838
Now Melee will finally die.
Hooray.
>>342407431
Woah man fuck off, Dedede is one of the best video game characters there is.
>>342391838
This was known a while back.
TL;DR
The game for arguments sake runs a cycle of let's say 0 - 6, or 0 - 60 frames. As the cycle gets near the end the game gets laggier, sometimes even eating an input.
>>342408017
All the exposure in the world means nothing if you don't have players to play the game. Smash 4 keeps out ranking Melee in tournament participants each major.
>ESPN
Not that ESPN's weak E-Sports section is anything to brag on but Smash 4 gets articles as well you retard, selective reading gets you nowhere
>Trash 4
So original go back to twitch already
any one else kinda feel sad for Leffen?
He has nothing going in his life except for melee
>>342401354
yeah man rocket jumping and bunny hopping is so dumb
>>342407973
No, the reason this site is shit because f your friends from reddit posting off topic facebook memes and starting off topic threads. You think just because you have some small know so from another site, you think you're allowed discussion here?. Get the fuck back to stealit; the Kotaku of videogame discussion.
>>342393654
>being a normie
>on fucking /v/ of all boards
>>342408582
Yeah just ignore the part where I said I've been here for seven years you fucking aspie.
Considering all you're doing is making a false narrative in some kind of pathetic attempt to demonize someone's criticism of this garbage board I'd say people like you are the problem.
>>342408438
More like Smash 4 beats Melee at FGC tournaments because it's easy.
In Smash focused super majors Melee beats it
>>342408957
This
>>342391838
Fuck... it's over Meleebros
>>342408868
>2009 post-chanolgy fag
>not thinking he's new
JEJ
>>342408868
Then you are the cancer defending cancer for so long, point blank
>>342406646
>>342406646
Mang0 has a lot of subs on Twitch so he'd end up being fine. Some chucklefuck would then in the upcoming months would hire him to be an esports commentator or something.
M2K will be fine for a few months because of Ryo and the other blacks, but he'd be forced to git gud at Sm4sh (as in win tournaments) or he'll die on the streets.
>>342409123
>that pic
Look where Bidou is now though i.e fucking nowhere
>>342409524
also
http://www.strawpoll.me/10292937/r
>>342409524
Love how people hype bidou and say it will make the game technical.
But in reality the best smash 4 player is a up smash spamming mario
kek
http://espn.go.com/esports/story/_/id/16429979/ceo-2016-smash-bros-preview-rivalry-robot-rest
New ESPN article
>>342409908
since when did espn publish fucking smash articles?
>>342407431
I think what I like best about Dedede's design is his primary color scheme of red, yellow, and blue- the building blocks of all other colors. I also enjoy his fashion sense, especially his traditional haramaki waist-band, in addition to the oversized robe he always wears and the puff-ball hat/crown-combo with stylish egg-shape on the forehead. He has all the basic abilities Kirby has (sans Copy Abilities), in addition to his strength to crush lesser beings by his mighty jumps, as well as to lift that massive mallet, which coincidentally grants him all the moves Hammer Ability enables. Dedede's also the most developed Kirby character, personality-wise, aided by the fact that he's appeared in every game but AM. In the beginning, the King started off as a thief and a glutton (though he still has these traits), ruling over the populace by depriving them of necessities. After being bested by Kirby, Dedede trained hard to achieve the same strength as the pink pudge displayed, yet was again trumped by a powered-up Kirby when trying to protect the kingdom (albeit by stealing again). Then, in Super Star, Dedede continued to challenge and compete with Kirby, striving to be better than him in fighting and eating, but both times being dethroned and shown the error of his ways. Even after all his Revenge planning, it just goes to show, jealousy and force can not darken a heart as pure as Kirby's. Then, he was possessed a couple of times, and was actually grateful to Kirby for aiding him and his kingdom. This is when Dedede truly has a change of heart, and begrudgingly helps him out in times of need. Afterwords, having learned his lessons, both Dedede and Kirby generally are on good terms, except when the former is falsely accused by the latter of misdeeds. Also, both Kirby and Dedede know the value of Wu Wei: despite their fame and power, they prefer to live the lazy lifestyle in the amazingly peaceful Dream Land, where the King rules by doing absolutely nothing.
>>342409985
saved
>>342409982
Since a few months, pretty sure it was right before or right after Genesis 3.
>>342401354
Combos were a bug in SFII.
what did he mean by this?
>>342409908
The best part about these articles is the comment section when they post it to the main ESPN Facebook page
>>342410354
mew2king?
>>342391838
Reminder that Westballz will be the best player in the world when this is patched out.
>>342410508
Westballz will never be the best because of his scrubby mentality
>>342409982
They started to cover ESports a while ago.
and it's surprising...varied. And not shit.
>>342404708
He definitely will
https://twitter.com/TSM_Leffen/status/745712481146896385
>>342404773
Henry""""""""
A japanese smash 4 player at apex was crying while playing because people in the crowd kept shouting they love him and wanted to fuck him. What's wrong with trashfags?
>>342411286
Peach mains, man, peach mains.
>>342411286
Sounds like that nigga couldn't handle the bantz.
Smashers in general are homo erotic as hell.
>>342411286
why are gooks such fucking pussies?
>>342411519
>I was grabbed onto. And thru the whoooooole match they kept shouting Umeki I love you I love you fuck meeeee! I was playing while crying y'know? And really really loudly. It was awful.
>Umeki is a Japanese Peach main.
every time
>>342411519
Yup, the funny thing was that Umeki (best Peach in Smash 4) was getting harassed by other Peaches. Fucking Peach mains man, even gay in Smash 4.
>>342411656
They even bend over for their superior western opponents
>>342411286
Source because I don't believe this
>>342411286
>>342411746
Post a source you lying retards
>yfw APEX is dead
>>342412398
>>342412513
https://twitter.com/KamennoOtoko/status/744793788195889155
>>342412691
What is this supposed to mean? He was playing a match and gay guys started touching him? Was it on stream?
>>342409524
>that pic
Can you please remind me where this loli is from? I remember having agood laugh whenever she pranks her shota love interest
>>342412540
Smash East Coast major when?
I'm sick of the west coast bias holy shit.
>>342413105
That sounds hot.
>>342397340
good thing it's not a fighting game :^)
>>342413105
http://myanimelist.net/manga/78537/Karakai_Jouzu_no_Takagi-san
It's really fucking good
>Real talk. I'm tired of sugar coating it. If you haven't won 40 tournaments you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. No ifs, no buts. Shut the fuck up.
>>342413840
>>342413107
Shine my negro
>>342414157
>Boston
>>342393398
Fuck you, Melee is perfect the way it is. Stop spreading these bullshit lies. This is the kind of shit a trashfag would make up to try and discredit Melee. No John's bitch, get on my level.
>>342412540
At least Apex pays out within 30 days, unlike a certain tournament thats covering its debt with entrants money from its upcoming tournament.
>>342414421
Or CEO or Pound or Smash Con.
If youre waiting for a new Tristate major it's not happening. All the big Tristate TOs are shit and/or hate each other. Just hope more people show up to Apex next year, this year's was better ran than the last 2 or 3 Apexs.
>Decide not to care about this "gamebreaking bug"
>"How can you not care? This means that Melee has had RNG this whole time!"
>Decide to care about this "gamebreaking bug"
>"Holy shit Melee is fucking ruined! Its unplayable now!"
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
>>342403708
>Playing Breath of the Wild during pools
It's gonna be good.
>1 frame of lag every 20 seconds
Well, that sucks. Don't think it'll really cause any problems, but whatever.
Any EUfags wanna netplay?
>>342416905
>breath of the wild
>out by january
(You)
>>342415136
Pound?
>>342417867
I don't know, man. I'm being optimistic.
>>342416905
>Not grinding the fuck outta friendlies after you get shitted on harder than on the designated shitting street and drown in the Ganges river.
>Not getting high/drunk as fuck with top players or friends.
Nigga you can play that overrate neo nintendo shit at home.
>>342418193
I don't have the money to travel to fucking G4, man. At best, I'll get some friends together for Melee and chill during the weekend.
>>342418351
If you go ultra cheapo mode its possible to spend less than 1k but dam it's pushing it.
>ceo this weekend
>wtfox after
>ppmd might be coming to evo
good time to be a melee fan desu
>>342391838
>I recorded myself shorting the LED circuit about 200 times at 1,000fps. I then edited down the videos until I had 51 individual shots in which the LED went from completely on to completely off in one 1ms frame. I then counted from the first camera frame the LED was turned off until the very end of the change frame. This number (converted into time) ranged from 60ms-83ms or 3.6 frames – 5.0 frames of lag.
>all this research and wall-text for a fucking kid's game from 15 years ago
>>342418706
in retrospect it's pretty bad
>>342418596
>CEO
Oh, right. So, Armada and Mango are sitting this one out as well?
>>342419208
mango will be there, armada and leffen are cucked in sweden
>>342418706
Hey anon there's money in the line and Melee is the most technical game out there.
We have to do it.
>smashfags always whined about muh tripping in brawl
>melee has the exact same only hidden
>they never noticed
>>342391838
>random 1 frame lag is the equivalent to tripping
no
No wonder half my inputs didnt register. In Project M i dont have to jam the analog stick in a direction 3 or 4 times just to get someone dashing.
PM wins yet again
>a game has control delay and doesn't respond the instant you press the button
This is the case for every single game in existence.
>>342407869
It was dying three years ago. But I still dusted it off yesterdayand had fun.
>>342416651
Just like Dan said in the thread it wont make a difference. People who are posting things like "WOW MELEE IS LITERALLY RNG" or "this is the same thing as tripping" are just shitposters and you should ignore them
>>342391838
This isn't even a bug. Just a part of how the game functions. The fact nobody noticed until now shows that the dev team was right in ignoring it.
>>342417880
Genesis
