There hasn't been a single season of any television show ever that is better than true detective season 1. Like you can say whatever want, offer examples you like more, but the way that 8 episodes of television grips you, and the story creeps into your brain assisted by the phenomenal acting, there's nothing close to that out there.
>>71818644
>There hasn't been a single season of any television show ever that is better than true detective season 1
S2 is better, but both are excellent.
>>71818644
>There hasn't been a single season of any television show ever that is better than the first half of true detective season 1
fixed
>>71818644
I have no problem agreeing with this
>>71818679
>S2 is better
no, it's objectively not
>>71818644
pseudo-intellectual bullshit that people pretend to like because they want to seem smart
yeah its good. but why do you make these retarded threads with just a statement and basically saying you will ignore any arguments against it?
>>71818776
Why in the world would I have to pretend to like something that's so objectively good in so many categories. Like that statement makes it sound like the writing and dialog is hard to understand but it's not. It's pretty basic shit.
>>71818644
Season 2 was better.
I already miss the frank quote memes.
>>71818850
I dunno, that's a fair point. I guess in the hopes I provoke someone to give me a counter example that's worthy because nothing I've seen since it came out has lived up to the way I feel about it and there's a profound sadness in that.
You know what though, Fargo season 2 got close. I will say that.
Twin Peaks season 1 disagrees.
>>71819162
Does it hold up?
>>71818679
I agree
>>71818644
>but the way that 8 episodes of television grips you
Only about 5 of them grip you and the other 3 spend their runtime shitting all over what those 5 set up.
>>71818644
great show I could really relate to Rust and his ideas, but 1 thing bothered me, I watched this with my gf and she was confused about this scene. I really didn't know what to tell her.
I joked around that he was shooting at god, but was that really the case, or was he having a hallucination, or was it some kind of 2deep4me metaphor?
>>71819470
Like, are you being serious? Marty kills Ledeax while he's hand cuffed so they make it look like they were being shot at and had to kill him in self defense.
It was kinda cool but I think it's overatted.
Basically it's just them digging around for clues ,typical detective stuff, then they finally find a single fat pedophile and take him out. All the "occult" stuff was blown way out of proportion, mysterious so called yellow king, I would say it's good but I have my doubts of it being the greatest season of television ever.
>>71819555
What? that's the dumbest fan theory I've ever read.
Mr. Robot, while nowhere near the same level of quality, really gripped me like TD S1 did.
>>71819470
jesus fucking christ he's faking evidence that backs up the fake story they tell about the shootout to hide the fack that Marty executed a suspect.
They play the scenes back to fucking back, are you retarded?
>>71819679
>>71820036
got me to reply 8/10
>>71818644
I just finished watching this for the 2nd time and, I can confirm, yes you are correct
>>71820036
But a pathological examination would show that Ledoux was shot from zero range. Rust wasn't even shooting at Ledoux. Maybe he was hallucinating that he WAS Ledoux, and was shooting himself, as some kind of metaphor for suicide?
>>71820186
This is some quality bait.
>>71818744
>another retard who doesn't know what the word objective means.
>>71819737
show is written by morons
>>71820234
nah
>>71819470
>GF
>people still replied
Louie S3
Seinfeld S4
>>71820503
Don't understand the appeal of either
>>71820484
Like why is this a thing. "I'm gonna pretend to be retarded lol got ya"
>babbies first adult oriented show
>>71820619
Offer up something then ya faggot. Oh wait your favorite show is probably something like the sopranos because you've heard other people say it's good.
>>71820939
WATCH IT ANON
>>71819470
Christ, I remember this meme. it's been a while, friend
LOST season 2
>>71821346
That show sucks. Like I get that it was good when it's only competition was like fucking Frasier but there's like 4 rewarding moments and the rest is just a god damn slog
>>71821580
But lost was like, on NBC. Could it really be that good?
I like breaking bad too, but as a contained story td is better.
Was he talking to the Lorde?
>>71822071
Yes. You fuck.
>>71819470
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARMF1Qr-zDI
>>71822250
what does it all mean
>>71818850
Because it's Saturday night lmao what is this kid gonna do anyway other than bait angry replies and samefagging
>>71822328
It's a mystery.
>>71822332
I said why up there ya shit. Also that's not all I'm doing. I'm also drinking a melon ball and watching preacher.
>>71822389
The other ones you posted are interesting but this one makes a lot of dumb assumptions.
>>71818897
I felt the same way as you, and then I watched Mad Men.
>tfw season 3 exposes the nose
All of the leftovers
>>71822657
But. But. The central conflicts in that show are so god awful boring. Hur no one can find out that I'm not really don draper. Like 3 seasons of this arc, and then guess what? They all find out. And then guess what? It literally means fuck all. No one cares. That's the whole point of the show for like forever, and nobody in the universe of the show ultimately gives a shit.
>>71822735
>season 3 exposes the nose
>there isn't going to be a season 3
BRAVO JEWS
>>71819737
this
>>71818890
>>71818679
not this
>>71822657
But that show is so boring. Like none of the main conflicts mean anything. Like the whole first arc is about how his big secret is that he's not really don draper, and then everyone finds that out, and guess what? Nobody fucking cares. The central story point for like 3 seasons ultimately means nothing.
>>71819470
>>71822858
Sorry for the double post, phone was fucking up
>>71822770
You just don't get it man. That plot was more about what it said about the character than its actual consequences.
>>71822893
We gamefaqs now, senpai
>>71822925
Why not have a plot that has both? And has focus? And doesn't drag itself on for 3 seasons too long? Honestly, I'm glad TD season 1 ended leaving people wanting more. Mad Men could have made a great 2-3 season show. But then it started winning all the Emmies, AMC needed a prestige show other than BB, and suddenly we're left with the animated corpse of a rotten show.
>>71822925
But what about that makes it so good that you would say it's better than td. The only thing that I can think of that was really good about it is the set design was done very well and the imagery is really memorable. But the writing is not well developed.
>>71823015
They're gonna think you're me lol.
First half of S1 is based, second half meh. Season 2 is better as a whole.
>>71823166
Ya know, multiple people have said that in this thread, no one has said why though. I just rewatched it, it's a great damn noir story, but it's just... it's okay. That's all it is.
>>71818679
This.
>>71823284
Tell me why you think that fucker
>>71823330
Season 2 doesn't have a drop in quality at episode 6. In fact let me rephrase. I think some aspects of season 2 are better than season 1, and vice versa. I'd say they're about equal though. Season 1 lacked these profound monologues which are clearly Pizza using his characters as a mouthpiece but they feel so goddamn organic coming from the characters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpvsdVg2YVU
This whole sequence^, like something out of a goddamn Terrence Malick film. Perfect. Another example is the "you end up becoming something you never intended." S2 lacked these kinds of parts, but made up in other things like character progression.
>>71823442
>Season 1 lacked these profound monologues
Season 2* fuck me.
>>71818744
>objectively
>>71823442
What's the best moment of S2 in your opinion?
>>71823474
Lol it threw me off for a minute but I got what you meant.
>>71823522
It used to be Frank's death walk. But now I think it's when Antigone and Velcoro are holding hands and she tells him "you're not a bad man."
>>71823522
Buttfuck your dad
I like big dicks
Gay cops escape
Frank's betrayal - smashing the glass
Visting the surgeon
Raiding the Mafia house
Lera Lynn bar scene
David Lynchian bar scene
"We get the world we deserver"
"Fat pussy"
You forgot Twin Peaks' first season
>>71823559
Frank's walk is really fucking good. I guess that highlights a problem I have with that season though. 2 goes through motions to elaborate m emphasize that the supernatural is real, like that and Ray talking to his father in the afterlife, like it shows you that those characters experience that, whereas the first is based in reality, all the occult shit is ultimately humans just being fucks, and rust sees weird shit, but because of drugs. Even when rust is talking about being with his family after he gets stabbed, it's just him talking about it. I thought that was a really weird choice with s2 coming from the realism of s1.
3 episodes in
When does it get good?
>>71819555
>>71820036
this is reverse bait right? or just newfags?
>>71823724
>3 episodes in
It's already better than the 1st season
>>71823671
You're the second guy to say that, the first guy never answered, does it hold up though? Like could I watch it today?
>>71823522
When Elliot Bezzerides commented on Velcoro's aura
>>71818776
Its very enjoyable in all areas, you don't even need to be invested in the Thomas Ligotti shit. You must be a real dumby if you struggled with this.
>>71823714
>2 goes through motions to elaborate m emphasize that the supernatural is real, like that and Ray talking to his father in the afterlife, like it shows you that those characters experience that, whereas the first is based in reality, all the occult shit is ultimately humans just being fucks, and rust sees weird shit, but because of drugs. Even when rust is talking about being with his family after he gets stabbed, it's just him talking about it. I thought that was a really weird choice with s2 coming from the realism of s1.
I'm not quite sure what you mean. The only supernatural part I suppose was Ray's dream and his father telling him about the giant trees. Later of course he dies underneath the sequoias, but isn't that the only instance? Frank was just hallucinating those folks in the desert.
>>71823772
Do NOT expect a super serious murder mystery show. When the show gets serious, it really fucking means it. Otherwise it's mostly tongue-in-cheek style television.
>>71823606
Most of those are stupid, but the buttfuck scene was great, problem was it was the best thing ray ever did and it was the first episode.
>>71823812
>>71823772
And yes you could watch it today.
>>71823816
Watching him beat the shit out of Pitler was pretty satisfying.
>>71823442
Nah. S1 had a director and actors that elevated Pizza's writing from sophomoric monologuing to actual character moments and revelation. I remember watching an interview with Pizza back when S1 came out. He was talking about how McConaughey helped him realize Rust was over compensating bitterness because he is afraid to face pain again. I was struck by just how fucking clueless Pizza had to be to not have seen that already, and it made me cringe thinking about what the show could have been if not everyone else was so incredibly talented. Fukinaga is an A+ director, and his stylistic flourishes really help sell a depth to what could otherwise be a really awful show(like S2)
>>71818644
Ray was extremely enjoyable in season 2.
>>71823851
>be a really awful show(like S2)
Alrighty, how was it awful? Are you implying that Antigone's "you're not a bad man" to Velcoro wasn't a great moment? Or when Velcoro is smiling on the phone when talking to Antigone? Or gay cop being completely in his element during the episode 4 shootout? Or Antigone being scared shitless when she has to resort to her knife in the same shootout? S2 has tons of these great little character moments.
>>71823812
You could definitely argue it was just the hallucination of a dying man but I thought it was more when weighed against him talking about how he never got out of that basement, like I dunno. I guess I just find that Ray scene really fucking weird.
On a different subject, I feel like the ending of S2 was overcompensation for the reaction he got to S1, what do you think of the ending?
>>71823924
Thats something no one has talked about, I loved the ending of S4, that was probably my favorite moment.
>>71823845
Alright, thats what I'm taking away from this thread, that I should watch that and I'm going to, I hope you're right.
>>71821923
ABC. LOST season 1 is near perfect, maybe the greatest season of network TV of all time.
>>71824080
Didn't people hate the ending though?
>>71823969
>First line
Yeah the Ray dream is a tad out of place compared to the rest of the season. But I suppose after S1 Pizza earned that right for that kind of scene.
The ending is much bigger downer ending than in S1, much to a LOT of people's disappoint I'm sure. Even in S1, Marty and Rust talk about how the big guys got away and probably won't get caught. S2's ending is entirely dedicated to that; a montage of the big guys getting away with it and winning big. People don't watch television for that kind of ending. I think the ending is great myself. Antigone's words ring true for certain, we deserve a better world and we have to fight for that.
Gay cop didn't accept who he really was and got killed for it, Frank accepted that he was a criminal and got killed for it, and Velcoro couldn't accept that he wasn't a good father or fat pussy's father and he got tailed and killed. Antigone was the only one who accepted shit: that not all men are as bad as her molester. She lives. All of this was great I felt, just really nice poetic stuff.
>>71818890
Caspere knew this
>>71823924
Had S2 come out of nowhere it would have been refreshingly thoughtful, if a little pretentious and seemingly intentionally poorly paced. As a follow up to S1, it just flounders about looking for an identity it never really owned. The character moments in S2 don't feel earned in the same way they are in S1. For every "this town feel like a dream, and the dream is fading" you have great moments like the car ride, the "shootout", the drug bust. S2 throws so much at the fucking wall that of course some of it is going to stick, but at least half of the obvious here-is-Pizza-doing-his-obligatory-develpment-scenes fall hilariously flat. S2 is so unaware of just how pompous it is, while S1 had the grounding forces of Fukinaga and McConaughey. This gets less into the writing, but the actors in S2 are so deliberately playing against type/trying to make a comeback and it comes through pretty strongly. S1 felt organic and obvious, like of course these actors are playing these characters and saying these lines, it feels like a natural extension of the show's ethos. S2 is contrived and confused, like it's trying to recreate the feel of S2 but has no idea how so it just guessed.
>>71819737
isn't it just Fight Club with computers?
>>71824159
Thing is, general audiences clearly don't appreciate subtlety and nuance. I feel that they're more interested in being spoonfed. I doubt if you'd ask someone who didn't like TDS2 what they thought the themes were and the character arcs were they would struggle to even explain Gay Cop's.
>>71824325
It is. The Pilot is great, but the rest of the season flounders.
>>71824120
The end of the series was pretty polarizing, but it's not as bad as some people say. It's a little hacky, but given how emotionally invested you are by that point (series is 6 seasons of like 22ish eps each), the finale is a really cathartic, emotional experience. It's like any show -- some seasons are better than others. But LOST S1 is god tier. At least watch that and go from there. You'll probably keep on through the end.
>>71818644
>mystery for moralities sake.
What did we learn. That every time a woman cheats she gets a bigger house as reward, that sex slavery is bad especially when it is done by a British egotist, that god exists and is the cause of all good.
Pure trash thematically, ambience wise it is 10/10, but not much different to any other of the crime thrillers which is just an excuse for cunts to cry on couches.
>>71824159
That was very well said first of all.
I guess I would say that the ending of S2 is definitely more thought out and a lot more complex than S1.
At a certain point it just felt like pilazzo (or however you spell that) shitting on the audience though, like specifically with him taking the time to show that Ray's message to his son, which you find out is really his son, further embittering this moment, didn't get uploaded, like why kill the character and then also be like ha his dying wish is lost?
>>71824289
>The character moments in S2 don't feel earned in the same way they are in S1
I don't agree at all, friendo. There's nothing inorganic about Antigone gradually getting more along with her father as it goes on, or Velcoro and Antigone getting closer, etc.
You say S2 is pompous and pretentious but I'm not sure I see it. Gritty, and depressing sure. But I don't see the pomp nor the pretentiousness. Can you elaborate?
Why are we pretending S2 is better than S1?
Is this some elaborate meme I'm not in on yet?
>>71824501
To hammer home how much of a tragedy it all is. It especially hits hardest when the paternity test comes back and Velcoro is the father of fat pussy.
>>71824411
Alright man, I definitely will. I will give it a try.
>>71821888
kys
>>71824605
I feel like we reached the conclusion of this conversation up there when you said some parts are better than the other in both, but I've very much enjoyed your analysis of S2, just so ya know.
>>71824695
god damn fucking someone finally, thank you.
Probably the best season of television ever, fight me. Like them as individuals or not, the chemistry between Harrleson and McConaughey can't be recreated or even planned.
I was excited for season 2 and purposely didn't read anything about it.
Then it came out and I started watching the first episode. To my dismay, Vince Vaughn and Colin Farrell were in it. I didn't finish episode 1. Is it worth powering through? Does it continue where season 1 left off or does it do its own thing?
>>71824345
And one amazing thing about S2 is that for all its nuance and complexity, it's delivered wrapped up in this over-the-top style that the average viewer couldn't get past. Ray's brooding, Frank's hilarious dialogue, gaudy stylistic touches like that freeze frame, the total lack of realism in that wild shootout in the street. I found all that shit fun as hell and still appreciated and invested in the serious show underneath. S1 was great, but S2 was one of the most unique tv experiences I've had. Fuckin loved it, I wish I could travel back to last summer and do it again for the first time.
>>71824781
It does it's own thing, now that you can binge it, you should watch it.
>>71824798
What freeze frame?
>>71824709
S'cool man. I like talking about S2. Thanks.
What do you guys think of Pizza's style overall?
>>71824909
It's great obviously, you have something to say about it?
>>71824850
After the shootout, last shot of the episode. Like something straight out of an 80s sitcom. Something about it though, it was such a weird ballsy directing move, I thought it worked given how weird and ballsy of a season it was.
>>71824909
He's a shit writer tbqh.
S2 dialogue was just laughable start to finish. Even a lot of S1 stuff is pretty bad and wouldn't have worked with different casting choices. S2 made it pretty clear that the actors and director were really carrying his ass in S1.
>>71824978
You're right they totally did do that. What a weird season of television. You ever feel like he was given too much freedom?
>>71824987
Why do you feel that way about S1 dialog, like what specifically?
>>71824540
I think a great example is actually the memes that arose out of each season. As silly as that might sound, compare the average Rust-post to the average Frank-post. Rust felt like a character first so people latched onto his skepticism of religion and cynicism, while Frank is more of a cliche of masculine bitterness and intellectualism so people latched onto his bizzare metaphors and nonsequiturs. While there's obviously more ways to compare each season, Frank and Rust are appropriate microcosms of each season. If you want to, it's easy enough to attach meaning and depth to every little thing in either season, but that seems to almost be the point in S2, to recreate the rabid fan base and desire for information, to give the audience something to analyze. But very quickly one realizes that while there exists a great deal of things available to analyze in S2, none of it is nearly as compelling. S1 felt like discovering something that was bound to exist at some point, like there was a cultural necessity for it to exist, that it was willed into creation by things larger than itself. And I think Pizza knew that and felt enourmous pressure to recreate that. Unfortunately all the talent left for S2, so it felt like an autistically specific and detailed piece of schlock.
>>71823755
le contrarian face
>>71825055
Half of Rusts edgy monologues would not have worked with a different actor.
We've had some great conversation about S1 v S2 in this thread, but I think something that hasn't been addressed is that just the film mechanics of the first are so much better, like that tracking shot in the drug house in the first are so fucking good, the whole thing is shot in a mechanically better way than the second, any opinions on that?
>>71825192
This. S1 is almost good in spite of itself. Not quite, but almost.
>>71824987
Pizza is a great writer. Carey took his words on the page and turned it into hallmark television. Two artists came together and captured lightning in a bottle.
Have you read the scripts of the first season? Because I have. They read like a dense novel. In fact, besides Breaking Bad, I haven't read a TV script (bar Chase on The Sopranos) so rich. Pizza has a style and prose that you can see from a mile away.
Have you seen any of Fukunaga's films? They're good, but they're not great. He's not the strongest writer, but his direction manages to cover that.
I'm so sick of seeing "Pizza is a le shit le writer lmao" by people who wouldn't know good writing if it smacked them in the face.
Pizza wasn't carried by Carey and the actors, they all captured lightning in a bottle.
And I stand by season 2 as a flawed pulpy neo-noir that worked on a lot of levels and failed on some others.
>>71825030
I mean I'm a big S2 advocate, so nah. Remember Pizza had a huge amount of creative control over S1 too, way more than most first time showrunners. I think that if Pizza had more time -- pretty sure he or some HBO exec said as much -- some of the rougher edges of S2 might have been smoothed a bit. But if you had had someone telling him "no one says 'apoplectic' in conversation, take it out" or "yo Pizza, this bizarre Lynch ripoff scene comes out of nowhere," it just wouldn't have been as memorable.
S2s story is fucking dumb as hell. Fight me.
>>71825093
>S1 felt like discovering something that was bound to exist at some point, like there was a cultural necessity for it to exist, that it was willed into creation by things larger than itself
Whoa now, now who's getting pretentious? Nah just joshin'.
I think you say Frank felt more like a cliche of masculine bitterness and intellectualism because it's not the first time we've seen a character like Frank before. Won't be the last.
>But very quickly one realizes that while there exists a great deal of things available to analyze in S2, none of it is nearly as compelling
I can agree and disagree with this statement, if only for the fact that S1 talks about a breadth of topics regarding aging, life, death, religion, etc. All of this post and your post said, I'm still not sure I see how S2 is pompous or pretentious.
>>71825192
Funnily enough it would have been Woody Harrelson saying those lines.
>>71825192
I don't disagree, think about Machoneheysys career before that though, that role made him who is today.
>>71825225
I think it's so obvious that no one feels the need to talk about it. Not only did it have the benefit of having one director, but it had a great director to boot
>>71825231
i don't think Pizza is a bad writer, he just needed more time to work on season 2. Not sure if this is true but Season one took 5 or so years to write.
>>71819470
Yeah it was probably some 2deep4u shit like he was shooting at god.
>>71819470
he's the one who killed Jesse's dog
>>71825298
That's very true, and if you were the one I replied to, I'm sorry I got heated senpai. I keep hearing that he's a shit writer carried by Fukunaga, which is just complete bullshit.
>>71825282
This is true. I feel a few of HBO's staff directors weren't able to fully realize the words on the page. Omega Station and the Pilot were great, but episode 2, 3, 4 felt lost visually. It's a shame Cronenberg didn't sign on for the season, but he thought the pilot was shit, apparently.
Remember how the ultimate villain mayors-son guy in S2 was such a fucking awful actor that they completely removed all his speaking scenes after the 3rd episode?
>>71825244
The fact that S2 throws so much shit at the audience and expects us to spend the effort and time to analyze it is the fucking definition of pretentious. It's just a complicated, hollow mess with airs of self importance that are unearned and moments obviously designed to make us "really think about it" when it hasn't even thought about those moments itself
>>71825282
>>71825359
But like you guys are kinda brushing it off as like "duh obviously it's better," but that's one of the reasons I think S1 is so fucking good, it deserves respect for the way each of those shots were done and the way they look.
>>71825457
Yes. We all agree.
>>71825500
well i just have nothing to say to that. so there. damn it.
>>71825457
I don't think Fukunaga was the DoP, though. It still looks amazing, though. Hard to believe it wasn't originally set in Louisiana.
>>71825566
Adam Arkapaw, who shot Macbeth, Top of the Lake and Snowtown shot season 1. I'm pretty sure Fukunaga saw Snowtown and sought him out.
>>71825402
>The fact that S2 throws so much shit at the audience and expects us to spend the effort and time to analyze it is the fucking definition of pretentious
But it's that that much, not like you're saying. Most of my posts have been from my first viewing.
> hollow mess with airs of self importance that are unearned and moments obviously designed to make us "really think about it" when it hasn't even thought about those moments itself
Are you sure you're not just seeing something you want to see? I don't feel any of this from the show.
>>71822768
Leftovers Season 1-2
Lost Season 1-2
True Detective Season 1 until final episode
Fargo Season 1, 2 until final episode
both seasons are truly comfy TV programme
I don't care about possible plagiarism on Pizza part the show is great
its perfect
ive been slogging through 3 seasons of game of thrones and can only imagine how great it would be with all that budget put into 10 episodes and done
>>71818644
How long since you'll rewatched it OP?
60% of it is actually just a lot of pretty typical procedural police work, also the ending is Rust wakes up from a coma and is a new man, pretty bad writing
>>71820230
He actually used the definition correctly. It's not an opinion when it's the general consensus, you fucking twat.
>people have actually tricked themselves into thinking the fedora tipping mess that is season 2 is good
Fuck, this board is embarrassing
>>71818706
this
should've ended it after Rust found the church
>>71825233
Yes as memorable painful to watch.
>>71826372
>It's not an opinion when it's the general consensus
>General consensus
>not an opinion
>>71819312
>Runtime
>>71822278
Wow, this is gold.
