Can we all agree that the main problem with this movie was the fast pacing which didn't at all let us get to properly know the new characters. The movie felt like a 90 minute flick where all character development was thrown out the window and only the action scenes were left in.
The reason that Rey is classified as a Mary Sue is due to her being able to know everything about the force in a manner of days without any Jedi training.
Luke Skywalker was nowhere near as good as Rey. In A New Hope, Obi Won shows Luke what a Jedi mind trick is on some stormtroopers - and it isn't until Return of the Jedi when Luke masters this. But Rey without ANY knowledge of what a Jedi mind trick is, is able to master it in a manner of seconds.
Now the plausible conclusion to this is
>She has been Jedi trained before in the past and had her memory erased and now everything is coming back to her
or
>She is a reincarnation of Anakin hence she is so powerful so quickly
There is no way she can be a rookie in a desert planet and all of a sudden in a few hours master everything of a Jedi - including winning a battle between an almost mastered Sithlord.
Of course all of Rey will be explained in Episode 8/Episode 9 I hope but as a fan: I find this very annoying to have to go see Episode 7 and then wait over 2 years for some explanation.
Episode 7 feels like a bland movie where all the background stories with what happened between Episode 6-7 was just thrown out.
I hear that the Lego Force Awakens game has bonus levels between Episode 6-7 which may explain more but then having to play a game (also reading some prequel books which they release about Rey/Finn/Poe) is just not good movie making in the slightest when you cannot incorporate all about the characters in one movie. This is the same problem that the Warcraft movie had too; leaving out so much background about the characters such as Medivh's past: making those who want to learn more having to read outside resources that could have easily been explained in the movie.
>Claim the old EU is no longer canon
>New movie is 50% recycled ideas from EU
>Other 50% is recycled ideas from OT
>Plot details left out. Gotta read the comics and novels.
>MC has no development. Is legit a Mary Sue
>Literally reset all story progress from Ep 6 so movie feels "familiar"
>No new memorable alien species or planets
>No new memorable Space ships
>just recycles everything
Where were you when you realised TFA was a total shit
A TOTAL SHIT.
>>71725343
And yet every single critic praises this movie as one of the best cinematic achievements... I cannot at all believe this.
How can not one critic speak about this movie's problems?
>Plot details left out. Gotta read the comics and novels.
Exactly this! How can every critic be fine with this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHl6Jsgq600
I didn't mind this movie, whatever. It had a ton of flaws, but it was just alright. It was like an average Marvel flick like Thor 2 or some shit.
I have no idea why it gets so much fucking praise, do people really love nostalgia that much? I remember Phantom Menace getting love from people, but at least the respected critics shit on it.
The real hero of this movie is Finn. He actually goes through believable character development.
Rey starts the movie smug and cunty, and she ends the movie even more smug and even more cunty. The only thing she comes to accept is that her family is not coming back for her, and that's not character development
So either Rey is the most poorly written character in the Star Wars saga, or they're going to make her turn to the darkside in future episode.
I feel one of TFA's biggest flaws is that it basically banking on the fact that you're going to have to watch Episode 8 to fully understand everything. The original 6 films were great because, although they were part of a larger saga, there was nothing stopping you from popping one in and just watching one film as a standalone. Episode 7 has too many loose ends that weren't tied up, which is most likely the fault of letting JJ Abrams direct it.
>>71725075
>>71725343
>>71726084
>>71726723
>>71726681
JJ Abrams did the same thing with Kirk making him an annoying and entitled cunt who was basically always right.
no. main problem jews. problem always jews. zathrus know.
>>71727152
This kills the movie
Was death in Star Wars always light hearted? Seemed in this movie people would die like nothing and it'd be passed off as comedic.
>>71727332
In the originals it was
>>71727332
Also there being no Han funeral was just terrible with how they treated his death.
>>71727152
Kek underrated image. Although it doesn't really work in this particular case
>>71725075
>desert planet
>forest planet
>snow planet
you'd think at least some of the planets in the whole galaxy didn't look like earth.
I'm so sick of fucking tatooine being in almost every movie
>>71725075
D R O P P E D
R
O
P
P
E
D
>>71726602
That's because the Phantom Menace did not rely on nostalgia and was an original unique piece of filmmaking which the critics found offensive.
>>71727446
so much this.
Who's idea was it to make Jakku a fucking desert planet? Can't someone think of something original which would have better stood out?
>>71727481
>did not rely on nostalgia
>C3PO shoved in for no reason
>R2D2 back for no reason
>dude Jango Fett is also a bounty hunter lmao
>Clones are a ripoff of storm troopers
>dude Baby Boba Fett lmao
>Republic ships are a ripoff of Imperial Star destroyers
>Naboo is earth
>Death Star plans in Attack of the Clones
>All Jedi wear Tatooine farmer robes
>Corisant is a ripoff of the city from Blade Runner
>dude Genonisis is Tatooine with rocks lmao
>dude Kamino is just Cloud City with water instead of clouds lmao
I want this "prequels were original" meme to die
>>71727560
>C3PO shoved in for no reason
We got to see how C3PO was made. how is this shoved in for no reason? Maybe they cut have trimmed his performance down in Attack but still he is a major part of Star Wars and it was showing how he first met R2-D2
>R2D2 back for no reason
Once again these were prequel movies so it makes sense.
>dude Jango Fett is also a bounty hunter lmao
I really liked the father son relationship between Jango/Bobba and once Jango is killed, you know that is how he turned to be ruthless
>Clones are a ripoff of storm troopers
No idea what you are getting at here.
>Naboo is earth
? Naboo is a new planet that looks nothing like any planet that we saw in the OT
>Corisant is a ripoff of the city from Blade Runner
So therefore the Fifth Element is also a rip off of Blade Runner because it is a massive city? Just come on
I love how you leave out Mustafar, that flow environmental planet and many others whilst being biased
>>71726681
>He actually goes through believable character development.
Finn goes from being a trained stormtrooper sent on raiding missions under the command of phasma to changing sides and murder hundreds of his fellow friends in 2 minutes, and then spends the rest of the movie being the bumbling baffoon and lusting after rey.
I would have loved a little more conflict from his previous life as he tried to do what was right, but found it hard.
>>71725075
The main problem is that they literally remade A New Hope.
All the talk of new characters, new ways, moving away from Lucas it was all bullshit. All they did was remake a 30 year old movie in a slightly less interesting manner.
And for all the nerd bitching nobody really called them out for just redoing IV.
>>71726681
No doubt Finn was the best new written character.
I loved his lightsaber fight
>>71727804
>And for all the nerd bitching nobody really called them out for just redoing IV.
Complaining about it being a remake of ANH is the most superficial surface-level criticism you can make. Most people realized they were deliberately taking some story beats from ANH in order to both reclaim the series from the shit prequels and to place the new characters within the previously established universe.
Maybe they went a bit TOO far with the Death Star 3 but if you genuinely think there's nothing at all original in TFA you just tuned out after you got triggered seeing a droid carrying a plot device.
>>71727867
>the shit prequels
this meme of the prequels being bad needs to die. apart from the attack of the clones anakin/padme dialogue; they are filmmaking masterpieces especially Revenge of the Sith
>>71727867
>Maybe
Nigga they definitely went too far with another death star
>>71727867
No one truly thinks the main problem is that it feels like 100% ANH again; read what OP says.
>>71727928
>the prequels were masterpieces!
>>71727931
No they didn't. It wasn't even an actual death star but a planet that had a death star like quality drilled into its core. A fucking fantastic idea!
But JJ fucking ruined it but having the planet destroyed at the end when instead we could have had Rey/Finn/Poe go exploring the planet in Episode 8 - making it like the Halo Ring in the first Halo game that has a summer area, a winter area: different environments as they land on starkiller base and have to hunt down for specific artifacts or something that the Empire has stored on there.
But Fuck JJ for just making the planet be destroyed so easily.
This movie's pace was so fucking rushed, we hardly got to see or get to know about this new planet structure.
>>71725075
> She has been Jedi trained before in the past and had her memory erased and now everything is coming back to her
She wouldn't have time to train. Judging from the flashback scene, she looked like she was 7 when left on Jakku. Did a child really learn to master the force that well? Isn't she too young to be one of Luke's students?
> She is a reincarnation of Anakin hence she is so powerful so quickly
I really hope they don't do this. All I wanted as a young, force sensitive protagonist to take on the remnants of the Empire after the torch was passed by the characters of the original trilogy (whose own journeys concluded in a respectable and believable manner).
Instead we get the Original Trilogy condensed into one messy film. The universe/characters have been reset and now it seems Mary Sue will displace Anakin as the Chosen One (did we really need to bring this element back up?). What a way to further degrade this franchise and waste Fisher, Ford, and Hamill.
You idiots know that Star Wars is deliberately designed to have fast pacing? You know that George originally wanted a bunch of prequel-tier exposition in the original movie? In the original cut we were supposed to transition between the Tantive IV fighting the Star Destroyer in Space and Luke watching the fight from the ground, where he and Biggs discussed Imperial collectivization of moisture farms. If you retards got all the "world-building" you wanted, it would cease to be a fucking movie and would just be a documentary of a fictional universe where fake facts were relayed to the audience.
>>71728005
The Phantom Menace is a literal masterpiece compared to TFA. TPM gave us
>The Jedi in their prime
>A look at life before the Empire
>Different worlds and species that were unique and interesting
>Amazing action scenes that still hold up today
>The origin of characters like Anakin and Obi Wan
>An ending that feels right and doesn't leave you waiting for the sequel
Seriously, was there anything in TFA that actually stood out and didn't just feel like a rehash of Episode 4?
>>71728158
Theres a difference between giving us nonsensical "facts" and providing some well needed exposition.
>>71728058
>planet
>>71725075
>Can we all agree that the main problem with this movie was the fast pacing which didn't at all let us get to properly know the new characters.
It's basically the same in the original Star Wars (new hope). You get just enough to understand the trope behind them, and either you enjoy it or you don't.
Poe = cocky, but rightfully so due to skill pilot
Finn = "Normal" dude how is way over his head, but super loyal to his friends (contrasted against the Empire continuously calling him traitor). Effectively the Piccolo.
Rey... is weird. I can sort of guess that maybe she's supposed to be a mysterious figure with more to be delved into future movies, but in just this movie, she feels too perfect. Her sole imperfection is her willingness to latch onto others at the very slightest hint of kindness. Desperate "I was abandoned, why won't anyone love me" sort of attitude. Hell, even the audience don't really want to love her, because she feels like a Mary Sue. Can't get love in and out of movie. Probably could've been done better, but we'll see how she's treated later on.
>>71727856
I loved how "underpowered" he is compared to everyone else, but he keeps on chugging along anyway.
>>71728158
You do realize there is something between too fast and too slow, right? The Original Trilogy moved at just the right pace and gave just enough information to allow one to feel at home in the universe. The Force Awakens was almost in a constant rush and explained very little, leaving both the new stuff underdeveloped and the failing to adequately fill the audience in on went down since Return of the Jedi.
And leave the name calling out next time.
>>71728354
Is he even Force-sensitive? Every time he picks up the lightsaber he gets his ass handed to him
>>71725075
Just because we don't see Luke do a mind trick doesn't mean he hasn't learned it.
Beyond that, my supposition is that the lightsaber hilt acted like some kind of holocron. When she got pulled into that force vision I think she received 'training' in a sense that gave her a hidden second nature talent with the force. We hear Obi Wan and Yoda both talking to her and telling her that it's the first steps into a bigger world.
Then, when Kylo enters her mind and she knocks him back she learns about entering people's minds and rooting around in there. She tries that on the stormtrooper and it works.
All of that much more believable than her being Anakin reincarnated.
>>71728396
Doubt it. He seems like the "every man" in the movie, but incredibly loyal. He knows how powerful Kylo Ren his. He was there when he stopped a blaster bolt mid-air.
His friend is down, he doesn't give a shit, he picks up the lightsaber (which he is shown to be mediocre with against "TR8R" stormtrooper), and even though Ren is incredibly wounded and emotionally fucked up at that point, only barely is able to hold his own and get his ass kicked.
>>71727856
His potential was really squandered. He was a racist caricature who existed to make Rey look better at his expense. And he might end up being one of the first homosexual characters in Star Wars, as Abrams promised we would be seeing some. Nevertheless, Boyega delivered a good performance.
>>71728442
>incredibly loyal
>betrays first order
>>71728442
>Finn picks up the saber after Rey gets rekt
>even though he is clearly outmatched by Kylo, he fights his hardest, even managing to wound Kylo, before he gets slashed
>then, Rey wakes up and spends the vast majority of her "fight" against Kylo just running away and parrying
Rey looks like a total chump in that fight, Finn was able to deal a more substantial blow to Kylo, and he isn't even Force-sensitive!
>>71728538
That's this movie's "poetry". He's continuously seen as a traitor, but he's incredibly loyal to those he cares about.
I liked that trait, but it IS a pretty shallow attempt at the new Star Wars team to "be deep" or some shit.
>>71728545
Ren wasn't fighting at his best against Finn. He was effectively toying with him, up until Finn actually manages to land a blow, at which point Ren stops playing games and easily wipes him.
He even at one point knocks Finn into a completely undefendable position, and instead of following up, backs up, hits his wound a bunch, and waits for Finn to get ready again.
>>71728545
>and he isn't even Force-sensitive!
we don't know this yet. I hear he will be using the lightsaber again in Episode 8.
>>71728396
>>71728442
>>71728617
Does this change anything?
>>71728538
He's incredibly loyal to the people he sees fighting the moral fight that has to be fought. Finn is a character who woke up and into a bad dream when he lands on Jakku with Ren. He was afraid of the senseless murder and didn't want to participate in it. Then he sees a perfect copy of himself that started killing villagers die in front of him and mark his mask in blood.
He basically saw himself joining in the First Order's evil and knew it ended in dying, either mentally or physically.
He decides that he doesn't want any part of it and plans an escape with someone whom he knows is fighting that evil. That person gives him a new name and a baptism through fire as they escape the hangar bay surrounded in explosions. The person who brought him into the new world dies and he gets an opportunity to help that man's mission get completed. He planned to bring BB-8 to Leia until he knew it would get there securely with Han and Chewie.
Then, his fear comes back and overtakes him. He takes his leave until the First Order shows back up and he's forced to consider what life would be like if he didn't fight for those people. He then returns and spends the rest of the movie trying to save them and putting his own life at risk.
Finn's a great character.
>>71728662
So it is confirmed he is a Jedi?
>>71725343
To be frank, the Yhuzan Vong were crazy OP and needed to be written out.
>>71728987
See this
>>71728719
>>71725075
basically, the film truly suffers from a lack of world building. Relevant plot details are ignored. Like you said, it feels like a 90 minute action flick
