ITT: Deus Ex Machina's
>>71702573
my penis in ur moms vagina
>>71702573
Doesn't really count as a Deus Ex Machina as a good portion of the film is dedicated to Aragorn going to collect them and make them fight. It's not as though they appeared out of nowhere to save the day with no explanation.
>>71703201
agreed. OP is a black person trying to fit in.
wow
this gonna be a surpopulated got thread in a second
>>71703585
Does the end of Apocalypto, with the conquistadors, count then?
>>71703696
No, but the eclipse does.
>>71703201
Giving you the benefit of the doubt, can it really be denied that their presence and invincibility in combat sucks out all the tension from the battle?
>>71702573
they disappear and dont really end the overall conflict. so no.
>>71703758
I disagree! The eclipse was predicted, since the Aztecs (or Mayans or whatever they were) were expert astronomers and were able to predict such events with extreme precision. It is not at all as unexpected as the ending with the arrival of Europeans... You're welcome
>>71703201
It has the same negative impact on the viewer as DEM: in one swift moment all the plot and conflict buildup is negated by an outside solution.
In ROTK, Rohan, Gondor, and Gandalf's efforts suddenly become important only as a stall before the invincible ghost army (which the viewer doesn't emotionally care about) arrives. It's a lazy conflict solution and bad storytelling.
Why didn't Aragorn keep the undead army for just a little bit longer? It's not like he promised to release them at a specific time after a single battle. He could have easily used them to steamroll through Mordor and annihilate Suaron's army and then release them. Seeing as how the ghost army wrecked the vastly larger orc army in only a few minutes, it probably would have only taken an extra hour or so. The ghosts would still have been released that same day and there would have been no need to risk the lives of all the remaining soldiers in a suicidal final gambit at the black gate.
>>71703992
>It's not like he promised to release them at a specific time after a single battle.
He did tho
>>71703992
>>71704027
how did he know the magical words to release them?
>>71704062
Through the magic of screenwriting.
>>71702573
>>71702573
Dei Ex Machinae
or
Dei Ex Machina
>>71704027
All he says is "Fight for me and I will hold your oaths fulfilled." He doesn't specify how many battles they will have to fight. And these undead fucks have been living in a mountain for hundreds of years, right? Surely they could wait one more day to be freed? Its not like it would actually take any effort for them to win one more battle.
>>71704133
This is a legit Deus Ex Machina, but it's totally intentional as such.
Which makes it a lot more tolerable
>>71702573
Every single Harry Potter with the exception of Half-Blood Prince because the conflict isn't really resolved at the end of that one.
>>71704062
Dunedain-Lore
>>71704199
What about Prisoner of Azkaban?
>>71704182
It's actually more of a Chekhov's Gun thing since the eagles were present from TFotR
>>71704230
>Time Turner
>>71704343
That's like saying using a gun to shoot the bad guy is a Deus Ex Machina.
It's a tool and they use it
Best use of Deus Ex Machina's are when they are intentionally comedic.
pic related
>>71704230
>>71704343
Chekhov's Gun in theory. Becomes a sort of Deus Ex Machina since we don't know that Hermione had it on her the entire time (or rather what it does) until it's used to resolve their dilemma.
>>71704371
Depends on whether the gun comes out of nowhere
See:
>>71704449
>>71704062
There was no magic incantation, he was Isildur's heir and only he could release them from their oath.
This fucking thing
>>71704520
overlaps wirh McGuffin. The spirit things coming out of it can be deemed literal Dei Ex Machina
>>71703992
Because they would just go "fuck off Aragorn" and not fight for him a second time. They were already grumpy is it was for figthing 1 battle. Imagine 2
>>71704166
Gimli says just that, but it is not honorable.
>>71704570
kinda nitpicky.
>>71703772
But adds much more thrill and excitement as you cheer him on after all the shitstorm.
Tension isn't the only thing and there can be something at the other side of it.
>>71704550
OP never asked for this.
>>71703857
but the little girl also prophesied that the europeans would arrive and wipe them out
They really dropped the gun on that last battle, I don't know what they were thinking
It's why ROTK is the worst of the trilogy
>>71703894
Except it was part of the plot, not an outside solution.
Saying that it's equivalent to a DEM would be like saying the Battle of the Morannon being ended by Frodo destroying the ring was equivalent of a DEM.
>>71704154
Pretty sure Deus shouldn't be pluralised.
So my bet would be on Deus ex Machinae
>>71704062
Because he was raised in the house of elrond, his great great great uncle, who maintained the keepsakes and lore of Aragorns people.
All he had to do was declare that their oath was fulfilled.
A deux ex machina has to be unexpected for it to be a DEM. If your story actually introduces elements that forewarn of the mechanic that shows up later then its not a fucking DEM.
They spend like 15+ minutes screentime going to the undead army, bringing up their oath, transporting them and then having them show up. It's not a DEM.
The eagles show up and participate at the battle at the gates, just a brief flight from the slopes of Mt. Doom. Gandalf would have known upon their success that Frodo and Sam would need rescuing so he sent the eagles there. Not a DEM.
You can argue all you want that in either case it's bad *storytelling* / writing, but they're not DEMs.
>>71704166
I figured they're in like a horrible purgatory and would love to stop being undead fucks given the chance.
>>71704166
>He doesn't specify how many battles they will have to fight.
He didn't have to. They were cursed because they did not rally to battle when originally asked. Their terms of bondage were for a single battle.
And it goes without saying that they are an object lesson in what happens when you break your word in middle earth. So its obvious why aragorn didn't try to keep them.
>>71702573
The real Deus Ex Machina in ROTK were the Eagles.
>>71706695
No they aren't.
The only time they came close was when Gandalf jumped off Orthanc.
That would have been a DEM if they hadn't shown the part of him sending off the butterfly and then it showing up again just before he jumped. That let you know that something was coming to help even if you didn't know it was specifically an eagle.
>>71706091
Because the lord of the rings, in book format, is one story divided into three volumes. They aren't really stand alone. If you go get your copy of the return of the king sauron and the conflict is resolved before the halfway mark. Everything else is just resolving all the other loose plot threads of the story.
I love the scouring of the shire and the whole journey home, but adapt it cinematically and it adds another 40 minutes to the runtime of the movie and fucks the pacing up something fierce. Not to mention enough people already complain about how long and stopey-starty the ending is already.
>>71703857
>You're welcome
Pretentious neckbeard is seeping from this post.
>>71706775
Gandalf didn't use the moth in the theatrical release of ROTK.
>>71706880
Yes he did.
>>71704182
>more tolerable because it's intentional
You guys love that LOTR dick in your mouths.
>>71706897
When?
>>71706949
1:34:21
>>71706949
the part where he uses the moth
>>71706445
But it does have the same negative impact as a DEM, although Frodo destroying the ring doesn't.
>>71702573
The apostrophe does not pluralize.
If the undead men in LOTR so imba why the fuck did they just sit on their asses doing nothing instead of wrecking everybodys shit up?
>>71707134
if you're good at something, never do it for free
>>71706949
Just pause at C:UCK:OLD
>>71707035
No, it doesn't. It's just a parallel plot re-entering the main plot-line, which is literally the point of parallel plots.
>>71707172
>C:UCK:OLD
I cringe every time someone uses this word like the Socially Conditioned Goy they are.
>>71707290
Explain why it ruins the movie then.
>>71704133
Yeah this, not OP's pic
>>71707341
It doesn't.
You're just retarded.
pic related
>>71702573
this whole tv series.
>>71706900
yep
>>71707397
Except it does, and you're simple.
>>71704133
>But the ‘consolation’ of fairy-tales has another aspect than the imaginative satisfaction of ancient desires. Far more important is the Consolation of the Happy Ending. Almost I would venture to assert that all complete fairy-stories must have it. At least I would say that Tragedy is the true form of Drama, its highest function; but the opposite is true of Fairy-story. Since we do not appear to possess a word that expresses this opposite – I will call it Eucatastrophe. The eucatastrophic tale is the true form of fairy-tale, and its highest function.
>The consolation of fairy-stories, the joy of the happy ending: or more correctly of the good catastrophe, the sudden joyous ‘turn’ (for there is no true end to any fairy-tale): this joy, which is one of the things which fairy-stories can produce supremely well, is not essentially ‘escapist’, nor ‘fugitive’. In its fairy-tale – or otherworld – setting, it is a sudden and miraculous grace: never to be counted on to recur. It does not deny the existence of dyscatastrophe, of sorrow and failure: the possibility of these is necessary to the joy of deliverance; it denies (in the face of much evidence, if you will) universal final defeat and in so far is evangelium, giving a fleeting glimpse of Joy, Joy beyond the walls of the world, poignant as grief.
>>71704133
Theyd be fucking cooked and suffocated that close to the lava. The Eagles probably wouldn't be able to fly over that hot air either.
ITT: Retards who have no idea what Deus Ex Machina is.
>>71707548
they are magic eagles
>>71706517
Why shouldn't Deus be pluralised? In Greek and Roman theatre there was the theoretic possibility of a LOT of gods saving the day.
>>71706695
In regards to your pic, I think there was an opening where construction was being done that the T-Rex got in through, I always figured she kept following the scent of the humans since she got a tasty meal out of the lawyer (and you kind of hear her following them when they're climbing over the fence).
>>71707856
True, but the term is still Deus ex Machina, not Dei ex Machina.
So while the existence of multiple gods is possible, the term itself only specifies one god.
Snoop, Tom Arnold, and Doug Benson in Trailer Park Boys
>>71703772
In the book, they can't actually fight. They just scare the living shit out of the orcish forces, disrupting their lines so that Aragorn and the legions of men he recruited from the coastal settlements (not depicted in the film) can ambush them.
In the film, they are definitely a deus ex machina, where in the film, they're just a plot device cementing the "Return of the King" as only the king of Gondor could free them of their oath.
>>71707889
>nobody took his poster off of his wall for TWENTY (20) years
>>71707889
That's more like a "Chekov's gun" since it was established that Andy asked Red for a hammer and a poster earlier in the movie.
The Aliens in War of the Worlds dying to Earth bacteria.
>>71707889
To be fair he got along pretty well with the warden and guards for many years so he probably had the whole thing ready for several years before escaping, I always figured that he had other tools at his disposal after the initial hammer that let him dig easier.
>>71708012
It's still a Deus Ex Machina since the movie did not really imply that the T.Rex was near the main building. We didn't even hear it came in, it just came out of the blue.
>>71708413
something unexpected =/= deus ex machina
the T-Rex was around plenty of times before and they just got away from it/lost track of it for a few hours
Pretty much all of the dinosaur encounters were happenstance, maybe with the exception of the raptors in the first place. The characters already had bad luck running into dinosaurs at the worst moment half a dozen times, so them lucking out for once isn't so crazy
A deus ex machina would be them running into Hammond secret collection of heavy machine guns, or finding a helicopter pad in the middle of nowhere, or the military arriving out of fucking nowhere to rescue them at the last second
>>71702573FINDS
>>71708570
DEM is something unexpected that saves the day. You be trolling.
>>71707441
explain!
>>71708613
???
you're not really likely to find any 'true' desu ex machina in modern stories because writers are too aware of it, and all it takes to change a machina to a chekov's gun is to edit an earlier scene so that it's already 'in the room.'
though if there's a chekov's gun that has no purpose in the story apart from waiting around to resolve the ending, it's basically a dem even if it doesn't look like one
>>71708707
no, DEM is when the situation is resolved by a previously unestablished outside force meaning nothing the characters did really mattered
in Signs the aliens invade Earth, all of the characters stayed holed up in their house for the entire movie, and at the end it conveniently turns out that splashing water on the aliens kills them. that's DEM. Hell, go back to Wizard of Oz where the same thing happens, water just magically kills the Wicked Witch even though it's never previously or subsequently mentioned why this may be the case.
In Star Wars Han Solo comes in at the last moment to help on the attack on the Death Star and saves Luke. That isn't DEM because 10 minutes earlier Luke was trying to convince him to stay and it follows logically from the situation and the characters.
Same thing goes with T-Rex popping up when they're on an island overrun with dinosaurs everywhere. It's unexpected, but entirely makes sense within the context of the setting
>>71708613
Fuck off back to >>>/a/
>>71708613
I kek'd.
>>71708613Stop posting that because it's already a thing.https://www.fictionpress.com/s/3206139/1/
>>71709135
Applying logic to it does not make it less of a DEM if you look at it plot wise.
>>71708613
Harry Potter and the Chamber of secrets.
That sword literally came out of the blue
>>71703201
this, I think most people just forgot that part, does that happen on the some movie or in the previous one?
>>71708042
We're still talking about different films here. And if each film discussed makes use of ONE Deus Ex Machina, several films will make use of several Dei Ex Machina or even Dei Ex Machinae.
>>71706775
>No they aren't.
They kind of are, by design. The hobbits had a task greater than their physical ability. They did the deed and were resigned to die together at the end. The eagles were a divine grace meant to symbolize that the quest itself took more than they had to give. The eagles were a reward of sorts. Or showing that the works of men could only get you so far, but purity of spirit and noble resolve to do what is right is enough to grant divine intervention in qualifying situations.
>>71708042
>>71710261
If there are five girls and each of them talks about her vagina respectively, that doesn't mean that all five are talking about THE vagina but rather five individual vaginae... vaginas... oh yes, vaginas is a legitimate English word.
I like vaginas.
>>71702573
ITT: We teach OP how to pluralize.
>>71710417
HAH
>>71709385
How autistic are you? You post this literally every fucking time someone mentions it
>>71702573
the whole harry potter franchise
>>71708137
But a Deus Ex Machina is "an unexpected power or event saving a seemingly hopeless situation". The ghost army isn't unexpected, it's all Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli did leading up to the battle.
They're more about Aragorn accepting who/what he is, than anything else.
>>71708317
>she never used it again
>she thinks she has no powers since Stannis got BTFO
???
The nostalgia googles are strong in this thread.
>>71702573
The arrival of Littlefinger n Salsa with the riders of the Vale, does that count ?
>>71709135
>Signs is a deus ex machina
U WOT m8
>>71707548
That's your problem with this, in a world full of magic, fantasy races and other bullshit?
>>71709135
>
in Signs the aliens invade Earth, all of the characters stayed holed up in their house for the entire movie, and at the end it conveniently turns out that splashing water on the aliens kills them.
The movie's set up differently though. Water is set up as Chekhov's gun in that case.
>>71703992
In the books they're not utilized nearly as much as they are in the movies. In the books Aragorn only uses them to defeat the Umbar corsairs and capture their fleet, and even then I think the Dead won just because they scared the shit out of the corsairs and scattered them. I don't think they'd be nearly as effective against an enormous army of orcs. It's not like Aragorn could just tell them to go crazy in Mordor. I don't remember ever being clear that the Dead could actually fight in any real capacity, I think they just were a distraction that freaked out the Corsairs and that was it.
>>71711572
No that was set up with the letter.
>>71706517
You're stupid, it's not God out of Machines but Gods out of Machines if you're talking about more than one so it's Dei ex Machinis since it's ablativ
Plebeians Rekt today: 1
>>71712558
>>71710261
You're looking at this all wrong.
IF we were talking about the gods which gave the trope its name, then Dei ex Machina(e) would be correct.
But we're not. We're talking about the concept of Deus ex Machina used in multiple instances. Therefore only the phrase as a whole should be pluralised, not the individual parts of it.
>>71704133
>>71702573
Why didn't they use the dead army to storm mordor? They could've covered Frodo from the black gates to mount doom
>>71713341
>break your word
>with an army of the dead that can't find peace because they broke their word
You don't break a motherfucking oath in middle earth.
>>71707458
Not that anon, but maybe you are too obtuse for a movie adaptation.
Answer this simple questions:
Do you wanted The Scouring of the Shire?
Do you wanted Tom Bombadil on the movie?
If you answer at least one Yes, then I have bad news for you.
>>71707889
How did he manage to put the poster back from inside the tunnel???
>>71715993
Was it stuck to the wall, or just weighted at the bottom. He was in there every fucking night, he didn't just leave a gaping hole in the wall.
>>71704133
Not trying to bait or anything, but wouldn't the nazgul and fell beasts have fought the Eagles. It would have been risky trying to fly the ring there imo. Also suaron would have spotted them and may have turned them on each other with his gaze. When they snuck the ring in he only gazed at them briefly.
>>71702573
woman detected
>>71716639
Moot point. Eagles are the servants of Manwe, leader of the Valar. They've rendered all the aid they can in the form of the Istari (the wizards). So aside from the tactical disadvantage the eagles would have flying into mordor, it would also be the same as if the valar just magiced the power away, and sauron and the ring was strictly a middle earth problem because the Numenoreans were stupid greedy assholes.
>>71703772
That's not a DEM though, just an unsatisfying solution to a conflict.
>foreshadowing scenes showing aragorn seeing the ghost king and staring down the path
>scene of aragorn getting the sword and being told of the army in the mountains he needs
>scene of aragorn leaving with gimili and legolas while theoden and his men watch and talk about it
>multiple scenes of aragorn and friends walking through the mountains to reach the ghosts
>scene depicting confrontation with ghosts and escape from the mountain
>scene of ghosts rejoining aragorn and agreeing to fight for him on the southern side of the mountains
>scene of ghosts capturing the fleet
DEMs come out of nowhere. This did not. This had almost 10 separate scenes of buildup.
Although I do agree that they should have done it the way it was in the books with the ghosts simply capturing the fleet and then leaving. I guess they didn't want another hour of aragorn going around gathering the southern lords to go fight for minas tirith, even though the whole theme of the arc is that men were still strong and all they needed was a leader to unite them against the coming threat. Sort of cheapens the whole "this is man's world now and they can fight for themselves" theme when ghosts take their place.
>>71711742
People that use this argument should legit kill themselves.
>>71716639
Doesn't matter, any point about the Eagles is moot since they're servants of the Valar and Sauron is a problem men caused by themselves.
>>71717571
>sauron is a problem men caused by themselves
sauron is an ancient evil deity that wants to take over the world. he's everyone's responsibility, including the literal demigod Gandalf that was sent to help topple his reign.
>>71714493
End of fucking thread niggers
>>71715872
> Do you wanted
BvS has Deus Ex Martha
>>71709422
UNAB?
>>71717810
why don't you deus ex fuck off?
>>71717810
Nah that's just shitty writing.
>>71706900
yes desu familius
>>71706900
>he doesn't share the load
>>71717908
DEMs are usually the result of shitty writing
>>71709687
Dude, Aragorn spends at least twenty minutes of screentime either discussing them or trying to convince them.
>>71704520
the entire movie built up how it was a weapon of god and that mortals shouldn't mess with it.
>>71707399
it was established in the first season that she was magically fire resistant.
>>71703894
This. It was incongrous and should have been cut. There is plenty of room for spooky shit in Frodo and Sam's arc, the ghosts de-valued everyone elses efforts.
>>71719484
But then what the fuck is Aragorn doing? Him saving the day at Pelenor is kind of a major plot point. You need spooky ghosts as an excuse for the grey company to fuck off from the riders of rohan.
Using the ghost army is the easiest way to make that part of the movie work. Otherwise you'd have to include the 40 Dunedain that show up, the raising of lamedon, the battle of pelagrir, and another 15 minutes of runtime to the movie.
