Not a baratheon. That lineage is pretty much dead.
Lannister hasn't had the throne.
Did she just usurp without any question?
Queens, as in wifes of a King, don't go anywhere in the claim line? Honest question.
Why isn't she a Baratheon?
>>71391337
She married the king and became the Queen.
Now that there are no living heirs she ascended the throne. Simple.
>>71391337
There are pretty much no heirs left.
She was the closest relative alive to Robert and had bigger army/undead guardian diplomacy for her.
>>71391337
God damn Cersei looked sexy as fuck in that all black outfit, if only she still had heir long hair.
>>71391337
There's nobody left, like at all. So she inherits
Also she control the army/police and might makes right
Robert Baratheon took the throne because he had a big fuckoff warhammer and a big fuckoff army. Having a valid claim didn't really matter, it was primarily about strength of arms.
In a similar fashion, Cersai's claim is "I'm the fucking queen, if you've got a problem with that take it up with Ser Gregor".
>>71391337
She got it because she killed everyone else nearby who had any power.
It's a shaky hold and she'll most likely be dead by the end of season 7, but for the moment she holds the throne simply because she made everyone else believe she can keep it.
Everything characters do in Game of Thrones have no realistic consequences, their actions have only consequences as in
>characters does a bunch of illogical evil deeds
>one of the "good" characters ends up having revenge
this show is literal fanfic tier
Wouldn't Gendry be the heir?
>>71391337
i'd let her claim my bp
>>71391520
True, like that time when Joffrey killed Ned and the good northerners got revenge the next season.
>>71391562
No because he's somebody nobody knows exists or if he's even alive.
Also he's a bastard.
>>71391337
Being Queen kinda gave her a claim, weak as it may be. That, combined with the control of the largest land army in the Seven Kingdoms and momentum gave her the perfect window of opportunity. Power voids are amazing for people to consolidate positions of power
Interestingly Dany is technically the legitimate heir to the throne
>>71391562
Only if the current king/queen would absolve him of his bastardry and give him the official title of Gendry Baratheon.
There is probably a targ in her family tree to claim legitamacy. While Jaime is no longer in the Kings guard his ability to inherit claims is clouded. She did not claim the throne as a Baratheon she claimed it as a Lannister
She claims it as Cersei, first of her name.
Which means she straight up took the crown for herself. It's really not that complicated. Cersei doesn't give a fuck about anything anymore. She's going full targaryen.
>>71391904
Her father got his shit pushed in and he lost the throne. She has no claim.
>>71391337
No heirs around.
No one with any power around.
Literally the only one in Kings Landing left with any power.
Easy takings. The questioning is gonna happen when everyone else finds out what she done gone and did.
>>71392178
What house is loyal to her?
>the Starks?
>Dorne?
>Tyrell?
>Tully?
>Greyjoy?
>Arryn?
She has no kingdom, just King's Landing
>>71391413
The claim to the throne comes from the father's side. Her children, even the girl have claim to the throne, not her.
The moment her father gets to King's Landing he starts talking about remarrying her while she still can breed to some other influential House's second or third in line.
>>71392043
There is a targ in the family tree to claim legitimacy.
It's fucking Dany. Or Jon if anyone knew about it.
>>71391402
A wife of a dead king is just the Dowager-Queen. No claims to the throne.
>>71392446
W-what about Aegon, son of Rhegar. Jon Connington hasn't been written out has he?
At this point anyone would have been too afraid to oppose her.
>>71392195
No but speaking based on her bloodlines, she's the closest thing to a Baratheon there still is.
Bobby B used his Targaryen descent to support his claim to the throne
She's queen by right of having blown up the fucking Sept and any immediate competition she could've had.
What are the people of Kings landing gonna do, riot in the street while she still has her finger on the doomsday button? Yeah, she's obviously fucked and she probably knows it, but at least she gets to have her moment.
Cersei is the Queen of Nothing. She has no allies left and everyone in the kingdom hates her. When Dany comes over Cersei will be defeated in no time.
>>71392364
So? why are you expecting that anyone is loyal to her besides the people in the throne room at the time of her crowning?
No one has claim to the throne. The royal family is essentially dead, so she took it by force just like Robert did. It's not that hard to understand, Anon. The people still in King's Landing are scared shitless of her.
>>71391337
She was there.
I don't understand how someone can have watched 6 seasons of this show and still be baffled by an "illegal" claim.
Yes, presumably the Tyrell army left Kings Landing only leaving Lannister troops and corrupt city watch men in Kings Landing. She controls KL and the Iron Throne and proclaimed herself Queen
Ned Stark had a legit piece of paper saying he was to sit on the iron throne. That didn't work out so well for him. She's the only force left in king's landing who controls any military power.
>>71391337
She took it by force but somehow autists don't understand this and keep whining about "muh rules of succession!"
Who was going to stop her?
And yea I'm sure the common people hate her but they're also probably scared shitless right now and have no leadership.
If D&D have people singing her praises next season then this goes on the list of shit they fucked up but right now its fine. She took the throne in a coup, there's nothing unrealistic about that.
>>71391487
She looked like an eighties villain.
>>71391904
Isn't Jon the legitimate heir?
>>71392364
doesn't she technically own the crownlands+the stormlands+the riverlands+the westerlands ?
>>71391337
The lineage is pretty much dead, and among the people with power she is the closest to the throne. Some would say she's an usurper, some would say she's well within her rights as Queen Regent, but does it matter?
>>71394438
bastards are NEVER legitimate
>>71394524
Rhaegar and Lyanna were possibly married at the Isle of Faces.
>>71394438
Jon would have one hell of a hard time proving his Targaryen bloodline even if he knew himself, or actually wanted the throne.
>>71394347
More like 1180's villain. Heh.
She usurped the throne you fuckwads
The only people that could stop her from taking the throne got killed this episode or literally teamed up to stop her
>>71394287
>And yea I'm sure the common people hate her but they're also probably scared shitless right now and have no leadership
This.
These people are not citizens, they do what they are told to do. I bet they dont even understand the rule of succession. She is the queen for years, so.... "These are matters of highborns, leave me alone!"
Of course we can expect some "peasant revolution" scenario, but I seriously doubt it. Or I hope not, it would look to much "modern". Brotherhood without banners-style of resistance and outcast's villages are more probable.
Plus the winter is here and they are left to deal with their problems. This is not a social state or a democracy.
>>71391337
Her claim is "I know all the places where Wildfire is hidden".
>>71392364
She has the Freys. :^)
>>71391337
she has no claim only her children do through their farther,
she has no army to support being an usurp, they left with Jamie,
she has no alias to help place her on the throne,
she has the wrath and disrespect of the masses so she cannot rule through the mob.
This scene was Video Gamer tier "Oh you killed everyone?! Congrats here is your prize!"
>>71391337
>That lineage is pretty much dea
What about Stannis?
>>71391337
Closest living relative to the dead king or even queen for that matter.
Gendry is the one. Hail Gendry.
>>71394524
He's very likely a legitimate heir. People should stop debating theories without researching them at all or even reading the books.
>>71394625
Yup. The people never revolted against the Mad King either even though everyone hated him, and Jaime is ridiculed for killing him because "he was your king!".
This is ass backwards medieval times, people are stupid.
Yes they had some riots under Joffrey and there will probably be some riots under Cersi but don't expect a real organized resistance movement unless another High Sparrow like figure comes along who can lead them.
>>71394722
Didn't Jamie tell something like, he killed the mad king and the people who saw this just asked if they should proclaim him the new one?
Seems like most people there don't care much about who rules them...
>>71394524
Given the clusterfuck and the alternative being two crazy bitches I wouldn't be surprised if plenty of people just accepted Jon's legitimacy for the sake of putting the new King in the North on the throne, rules be damned.
The Reach is going to cut off their food supply to King's Landing now that they have sided with Daenerys along with Dorne.
The Iron Islands and the North have declared independence and the Vale has sided with House Stark, the Riverlands are about to descend into an anarchic shithole yet again with Walder Frey's death because his family is going to tear itself apart trying to replace him.
The only Kingdoms not openly opposed to Cersei's rule are the Westerlands and the Stormlands, both of which are severely depleted for gold and manpower due to all the fighting that has been going on already.
Cersei is basically out of touch with reality and she's gonna be BTFO by Daenerys/Tyrion.
Bronn will also probably defect to Daenerys in order to be on the winning side, get paid and meet up with his old mate Tyrion.
Jaime will probably become the Queenslayer when Cersei goes all "Der Untergang" on King's Landing when it becomes apparent that her reign is ending.
Hopefully Bran and Meera will head for Winterfell to tell Jon about his true parentage. Also kind of hoping that they hook up.
>>71391562
It would be easier for Gendry to gather an army and usurp the throne as a conqueror than it would be for him to be recognized as a son and legitimate heir of Robert Baratheon.
>>71391337
It's a straight up usurpation. There's nobody who can stop her. The Baratheons are functionally extinct and the Tyrells are powerless. The small council is gone. It's an example of might makes right, Robert would be proud.
>>71395051
Yeah, the real Baratheon heir is probably some distant relative from a Stormland house, but they've been virtually absent from the story so who know.
>>71391337
The man or woman with the biggest army is always the one in charge.
>>71395213
Tell that to Renly.
>>71395051
Robert was also a rebel and he was only in charge because the Lannisters in the first place.
I woul let her usurp me if you catch my drift
Not hard to take a throne when there's nobody around to stop you, dragontits will usurp it soon enough.
>>71395253
The army was never really his to begin with.
>>71395253
So in retrospect was Renly's death just a deus ex machina? because that shadow power never was used again and no one has used powerful magic since then
>All these female """""""""leaders""""""""""""
Enough with the fucking feminist shit. They will never be taken serious. They are incompetent. ALL OF THEM.
>>71394835
>>71394625
Peasants usually don't give a shit who the monarch is as long as they get left alone. If you look at even the craziest, most murderous Roman emperors for example, they basically just made life miserable for rich aristocrats within Rome itself, and usually didn't have much effect on commoners around the empire.
>>71391487
A meme is born, gents. You're welcome.
>>71392364
She doesn't even control the approachs to King's Landing, Stannis's forces still control Dragon Stone and the woods outside Kings Landing are (in the books anyway) infested with the remains of the Hill Tribes.
>>71391337
Might makes right and right of conquest. Simple.
>>71391337
>>71391480
She usurped the throne with force.
Technically, since all the uncles on father's side are dead, the succession would go to mother's side uncles, so Jaime should have become the King.
>>71391502
That's like saying all her kids Baratheon and Lannister cousins are all dead. If all Baratheons just so happened to be dead then it moves to a Lannister cousin who is most surely alive. She just usurped up the ass
>>71391337
Women are basically in power in every major house.
>>71395367
So are the males. Except, conveniently, the ones who don't want the throne.
>>71394564
He just have to make a fire and sit down on it nigga.
If it doubt burn it, if he dies is not Targaryen, if he doesn`t die, crown him.
There are many examples of ruling queens that has inerhit the crown from their children.
Queen Margaret of Denmark, Norway and Sweden, who founded the Kalmar union is a great example.
But this is /tv/ so there's always gonna be some butthurt over shit /tv/ actually cannot comprehend
>>71391516
Except that's not entirely true. Robert had Targ blood making him a valid claimant to the throne if all the other Targs were killed off.
>>71395625
Jaime gave that up when he became a kingsguard.
>>71395625
Imagine Jaime ending up on the Iron Throne.
>>71395824
because he killed them
She's a usurper and a tyrant who kills anyone in her way. She doesn't need a claim.
>>71394564
All he has to do is stand in some fire
>>71395772
Doesn't work like that. If all Targs were immune to fire Drogo would've had to find a different method of execution for Dany's brother
>>71391454
then how could a Baratheon get on the throne after Targaryen, and not whoever... eg. Lannister. Jaime?
>>71395785
Don't be dense fucktard. We're talking about a fictional universe where the laws of succession have been explicitly stated as going through the male line only.
>>71391480
kek. Stannis should've only wait....
I forgot, who controls the Gold cloaks now?
>>71395360
That's exactly what it was. That was the part where the show jumped the shark.
>>71395839
>>71395625
Then Tyrione
>>71395848
married with Dany
>>71395950
No it's never directly stated that
>Inheritance laws in the Seven Kingdoms are not clear cut. According to George R. R. Martin,
>The short answer is that the laws of inheritance in the Seven Kingdoms are modelled on those in real medieval history... which is to say, they were vague, uncodified, subject to varying interpretations, and often contradictory.
>people discussion rules of succession when the whole point of Gurms stories is that there are none and the feudalism is shit
>>71395950
Yeah and there was never any confusion about that at any point in the story, right? It worked our just fine and never was there a discussion whether a brother comes before a son or anything like that, right?
It doesn't matter, Cersei is only going to be in power for however long it takes for those ship to get there. And considering everyone's teleportation powers, that will be one episode. So good job D&D.
I'd let her claim me if you know what I mean
What's her name?
The Iron Queen?
>>71395936
Bobby took it. Also Baratheons and Bobby have Targ blood.
>>71396062
>Tyrione
He lost his trial and killed his father.
>>71396079
>And considering everyone's teleportation powers, that will be one episode.
This is Dany we're talking about. I wouldn't be surprised if a storm brought her back to Essos first episode and she goes back to making smug "muh dragons" faces.
>>71395785
>Her title in Denmark was derived from her father King Valdemar IV of Denmark.
Basically she already was huge shit.
Cersei is a daughter of a dead lord, wife of a dead usurper, and a mother of two unlucky and dead child kings
Her luck alone is supposed to brand her as hated by the gods and a persona non grata.
No way she could act as a queen regent..
>>71392364
She also has no family alive to succeed her throne
>>71395936
Baratheon is a Targ cadet house. They're basically cousins.
>>71395848
>Imagine the ending where the whole thing turns into democracy and Dany becomes the president.
>>71396173
Don't forget she killed the goddamn High Septon in the most obvious way possible.
>>71395950
>There are no clear cut answers, either in Westeros or in real medieval history. Things were often decided on a case by case basis. A case might set a precedent for later cases... but as often as not, the precedents conflicted as much as the claims.
>>71396073
Yes it has. It's been made clear several times that the difference in Dorne is that women are not skipped over but they are everywhere else in Westeros.
>>71396078
In your own retarded example you mention brother and son. Two males. And there was no confusion. There was a claim that the son was not really the king's son. No one was confused about what the law was.
She has nobody to oppose her. She's a usurper through and through
>I'M SHERSHEH LANNISHTER
>COMPLETE SHEPT SHATURATION
>SHEVEN MINUTES
>>71391337
Do you not know basic inheritance laws? If there are heirs then the crown would keep going down the line, however Robert and his brothers are dead, his "children" are dead and his children never sired their own children. Hence the line was broken and the closest claimant to the throne was Cersei due to her marriage to Robert. Shit happened in real life and it happened here.
>>71396173
Yes, but she became queen of Norway and Sweden because her husband had that title, which was then passed on to their son, and after he died it was passed to the kings mother; Margaret
>>71396237
I will just quote things instead of making shit up like you.
Go Gurm:
>After the sons, most would say that the eldest daughter is next in line. But there might be an argument from the dead man's brothers, say. Does a male sibling or a female child take precedence? Each side has a "claim."
>The medieval world was governed by men, not by laws. You could even make a case that the lords preferred the laws to be vague and contradictory, since that gave them more power. In a tangle like the Hornwood case, ultimately the lord would decide... and if some of the more powerful claimants did not like the decision, it might come down to force of arms
I know the ending is supposed to set up the next season, but I can't help but get the feeling that Cersei is going to get BTFO. I can't imagine it ending in any other way than her getting completely fucking annihilated by Dany. It won't even be a challenge.
Cersei (probably) controls:
The Lannister Armies, now with the death of her uncle the bannermen falls to Jamie, who will support her. Probably lots of armies, lots of veterans.
Stormlands, by virtue of being the last Baratheon family member alive
River Lands. Completely raped to death by a billion wars. Farmers on the brink of revolt. Frey's are going to be in complete dissaray after the death of Edmure.
Kings Landing.
Dany controls: Dorne and The Reach, both whose armies have stayed out of direct fighting.
A Dothrakii horde. Even if she had the majority stay behind and guard Slavers Bay, its still a sizable force.
The Unsullied.
Three Dragons.
An ironborn fleet.
The only way I can see Cersei having even half a chance is if Euron shows up with the remainder of the Ironborn fleet and sinks 90% of Dany D's forces before they can land.
>>71396271
What the fuck do you mean "here"?
>>71394968
Bran has been marked by NK. Once he goes past the wall the ww army will be allowed to pass! Just like in the tree.
The first time the words "Magic barrier" was used was for the tree, they said the ww can enter because Bran was marked. The second time they mentioned it was in reference to the wall.
>>71396237
>Yes it has. It's been made clear several times that the difference in Dorne is that women are not skipped over but they are everywhere else in Westeros.
That means that in Dorne, women inherits on the same grounds as men, while in the rest of Westeros, women can only inherit if there are no male successors. There are no male successors right now.
Also, those laws don't really mean much as >>71396078 pointed out
>And there was no confusion. There was a claim that the son was not really the king's son.
He's talking about Renly making claims even though he wasn't the oldest son, meaning that the laws don't really mean that much you dip!
>>71396310
>Dany D
>Dani Daniels
Welp, I guess it's time to jerk off again
>>71395872
Still you need to have claim to the throne fucking faggot have you not watched the show?
>>71396310
Or if a storm hits Dany's army
>>71391337
in real life, the landcaster family took over england, which was then called westingsonshire, from king robert bertolini when he died
>>71396310
I'm pretty sure Jamie isn't going to support her.
>>71396402
>Still you need to have claim
Says who? Did the Targaryens have any claim in the first place? No they didn't
>>71395360
Happens twice in the books, and that leech thing was basiclly a curse. Also Mel being a surprise hag, and the necromancers made of ice heading down from the mountains seem like pretty "magical" happenings.
>>71395785
Queen Margaret was the Danish king's daughter. Thus, she was of the royal blood. Cersei has no royal blood. Also, Margaret's vassals demanded that she find a male claimant to the throne with blood from all the Scandinvian royal dynasties (Eric of Pomerania). She only ruled as a formal regent for Eric, even if she held the real/informal power during his lifetime. Queen-mothers not of the native dynasty's royal blood often ran into trouble when they tried to assert regencies excessively. See: King Edward III of England's mother.
>>71396383
I really don't care what he is talking about. Those inheritance "laws" are a mess. There is no point in debating them even when debating real history. In reality people made up they fucking claims as they went along. Charlemagne claimed he was related to Augustus and would therefore rules Rome. The Merovingian dynasty, his predecessors, claimed there were descendents of a sea mutant, the Romans themselves claimed they were survivor from Troy so they could rule the East etc.
It's a waste of time if you do not consider what people actually believe was true and was not and it's true that in ASOIAF "power resides where people believe it resides". Laws don't mean nothing here. The only point that is interesting is who tells the better story more convincing and this has little to do with detailed arguments about succession.
>>71396510
yeah well she's only just sat on the fucking throne, give her a minute to do all that stuff
>>71391454
Inheritance doesn't work that way.
Simple.
>>71396487
Was there even a throne before them?
They conquered the lands, changed their religion and asked the "pope" to legitimize the new crown.
Now you need to have a claim or have the "pope" proclaim you as ordained by the gods to rule so no claims necessary.
I'm making shit up cause the fat fuck didn't bother.
>>71396487
The Targaryens had 3 dragons. Cersei has 1 zombie.
>>71395915
He wasn`t killed by fire, he was killed by melted gold, I'm sure that Dany can be killed by poison, a blade, melted metal, etc. Just no fire.
>>71396591
>Was there even a throne before them?
There was seven of them. And there still are. Westeros isn't one kingdom. The Targaryens claimed seven thrones without having claim to any of them.
This episode was so horrible I don't care what people say! they raped the books even more so hard doing plot replacements like
Arya doing the frey pies thought Cersei being Queen was a stupid move they need to stop the feminist mary sue shit it's very cringe.
>>71396510
I think mother of William II of Sicily also managed it.
She was the Queen consort but managed to be a regent for her son.
>>71396529
>The Merovingian dynasty, his predecessors, claimed there were descendents of a sea mutant,
u wot
>>71391904
You don't get a claim just from being a spouse, it just doesn't work that way. She also doesn't have anywhere near the largest army, the Reach has the most men by a fucking lot.
She doesn't give a fuck anymore and openly usurped it.
>First of her name
She probably knows she's going to die just as the prophecy says. There is nothing left for her and I'm surprised she doesn't just suicide herself.
>>71396078
One of the specific reasons why feudalism was superior to what came before it (the early medieval/"Dark Age" period, c. 500-1000 AD) was that its "rules" for succession were far more stable, generally favoring primogeniture. Sure, there were still many succession disputes, but nothing comparable to what was going on before. It's completely fucking asinine to say "feudalism is shit" as if we're comparing systems in a magical, ahistorical vacuum.
>>71391454
You fucking retard, yeah, just ignore ALL the rules imposed by agnatic-cognatic primigeniture succession (the one beign used in westeros, AKA usual inheritance system in medieval western europe)...
OFFICIALLY Tommen was a Baratheon, therefore after his death the next Baratheon in line would have been Stannis, since he died it should go to Shireen who is also dead. The Closest ties the baratheons had to any royal family were the Targaryens, so by agnatic-cognatic primigeniture succession Daenerys has the rightful claim to the iron throne. It's not Jon either since he's a bastard due to the fact that Rhaegar was married to Elia Martel and not Lyanna Stark.
This rubbish show is dumb fanfiction anyways. The books are the real story!
>>71396648
Did Alfred the Great have a claim on all seven kingdoms? I really asking cause now I have to make a salad and hopefully I won't have to goggle it afterwards.
>>71391337
The lannisters currently command the strongest army in the seven kingdoms.
She has no claim. There's just no one to oppose her.
>>71396748
The Targaryens were ousted from Westeros, so I don't think anyone in Westeros will press their claim.
Also, I think you've been playing too much Crusader Kings, where the rules of the game are way more strict than feudalism were in reality.
King Robert is dead, all of his "children" are dead, his siblings are all dead and they have no heirs, therefore Cersei is next in succession.
Technically Gendry could claim the throne but he's nowhere to be seen and nobody is aware of his existence anyway.
>>71396748
>Shireen
>Dany
nope, no women allowed on the throne
>>71396310
>I know the ending is supposed to set up the next season, but I can't help but get the feeling that Cersei is going to get BTFO.
Well she's not going to hold the throne until the end of the show. They've set her up as the final villain.
>>71396821
>Technically Gendry could claim the throne
Technically a shitload of people could also.
>>71395772
Targs aren't immune to fire, and Jon sure as shit isn't
>>71394824
There's no proof that Rhaegar and Lyanna married, and even if they did there's no way anyone could prove it.
"Hey, guys, I'm Jon Snow, but I'm really the legitimate son of Rhaegar Targaryen and you'll just have to take my word for it. :^)"
>>71396846
Yeah, but most of Robert's bastard were murdered. As far as we know Gendry is the only one left.
>>71396402
Robert derived his claim by conquest, not inheritance. As did the Tararyens before him.
Renly shrugged. “Tell me, what right did my brother Robert ever have to the Iron Throne?” He did not wait for an answer. “Oh, there was talk of the blood ties between Baratheon and Targaryen, of weddings a hundred years past, of second sons and elder daughters. No one but the maesters care about any of it. Robert won the throne with his warhammer.”
>>71396778
The Tyrells have the strongest army. Also remember that Kings Landing was starving until CIA made the alliance between the lannisters and the tyrells by marrying Joffrey to Margaery
>>71396839
Ineritance system in westeros puts male heirs before female ones, but they can still inherit. If the female marries a male then she is still queen but the children will be of the father's dynasty.
>Not a baratheon.
Actually, through an incredibly convoluted line, she *could* be considered the rightful blood heir, but it is dependent on a lot of shit.
Basically Baratheons and Lannisters married a long time ago, and with Tommen dead Tywin's offspring are the closest blood relatives to the Baratheons alive, provided bastards can't inherit.
>women can't inherit
No male (or female) Baratheons left, Tywin dead, Jamie doesn't want the throne, Tyrion was found guilty of regicide (despite being innocent) and stripped of all titles.
However, in the show it was a combination of her simply taking power in a vacuum she created and people bought it because there simply aren't better claimants (remember all Baratheon bastards are assumed dead).
>>71396839
The literal only reason women aren't allowed on the throne is some faggot kingsguard got mad based Rhaenyra cucked him. So everyone decided no more girls allowed to avoid retards doing that again.
I hope she goes full Maleficient in season 7.
>>71396608
they both had armies that enforced their rule
Is anyone finding Cersei to be the only likeable character now?
>>71395785
>>71396510
>>71396688
Do pharaohs count? Because king Hatshepsut definitely qualifies in that case.
>>71396805
Regardless, people in westeris would know who the rightful king/queen is and would try to support her claim, especially knowing she has 3 dragons, an army and that Cersei is a tyrant. But who am I kidding, STRONK WYMEN AND LE WITTY DWARF
>>71396912
Yeah, but his nan fucked a targ so he also has some of their blood to usurp the throne
>>71396983
I still like jon and the northerners.
>>71396821
>>71396846
was Edric Storm ever mentioned in the show?
>>71396510
>Queen Margaret was the Danish king's daughter. Thus, she was of the royal blood.
Sure, but the fact is that she inheritet the Swedish and Norwegian crown the exact same way as Cersei did.
>>71396079
>teleportation powers
Why do I keep hearing this? Do people really want this shit even more drawn out?
>>71397026
Think they just combined him and gendry
>>71396917
Why does the old hag need the help of sand sneks to take cersei down then?
>>71396912
The only reason he became king instead of Ned (actually wronged by aerys) or Jon (statesman, trusted leader) was because of his targ blood. Inheritance had everything to do with it.
Renly's view here is to show how much he tries to justify rebelling against someone he knows has a better claim, not to actually show that he;s right.
>>71397011
His grandma was targ.
>>71396995
>people in westeris would know who the rightful king/queen is and would try to support her claim
Why? Why would they support a complete stranger?
>because it is le right thing to do!
Not really an argument.
>>71397086
How the hell should I know? D&D are the ones writing the show and they're hacks. The show no longer bases itself on people not being retarded.
>>71397011
>>71396912
Exactly or it could have been the Starks or even Tullys that claimed the throne. You guys act like the Baratheons did it all on there own
>>71396487
They united the Kingdoms through conquest and owned the throne for generations establishing the religion and all that other shit.
>>71395785
Scandinavia only emulated royalty. They were really bad at it.
>>71397133
2 of the kingdoms are already doing it to an extent. Though its less about supporting her claim and more about revenge.
>>71397133
>Why would they support a complete stranger?
Because Cersei just destroyed their pope and place of worship, declared war on 2 more kingdoms, and lost all the food the Tyrells were supplying. The fact that there are no riots is just everyone reading the script.
http://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/133037/how-did-this-character-legitimise-their-claim-to-the-throne
>>71397164
The religion was already there, the targs converted
The Lannister name. Although, with news of the taking back of Winterfel, Juan Azor'd be a shoo-in.
>>71397041
She literally did not inherit any crown whatsoever. She was called in to solve a major succession dispute/crisis, and served as a "protector" or regent of the three kingdoms, hence why she was obligated to nominate Eric of Pomerania as king.
>>71395824
>Robert had Targ blood making him a valid claimant
According to the feudal rules of succession, Dany is the rightful queen of Westeros and before that it was her brother. Robert was never had a valid claim.
The thing about Robert is that he started a war and took the crown. He didn't just sit around and then all the targs died in a fire and then some maesters figured out that according to these stupid rules Robert was the rightful king of Westeros. No, he just murdered everyone who opposed him and eventually became king because everyone else just felt it was better to just let this guy be king rather than fight an unending civil war over who is the rightful king.
I don't remember if it's in the show but Tywin makes a pretty good point on the matter when some people in the room talk about what right Robb has to call himself King in the North and Tywin tells them
>By right of conquest
>what's her claim
Conquest? She killed everyone who would oppose her.
Also shit like this has happened in real life. wu zetian was a chinese empress who used to be a concubine and stole the throne from her son. Olga of Kiev was a queen of medieval rus and murdered all the claimants to the throne after her husband died and ruled until her son was of age.
>>71396778
>theres just no one who opposes her
You mean not all of Westeros, Every single person in Kings Landing and some people in Essos
>throne room filled with Lannister soldiers
>quiet as a tomb
Right by conquest, same as Aegon I.
The WHOLE POINT of this series is that any natural claim to power is a joke and the divine right of kings is a meme
Targs sat the throne because they had Dragons. Robert sat the throne because he killed rhaegar with his hammer. Joff and Tommen sat the throne because their grandfather had the biggest army. Cersei sits the throne because she killed all her enemies and no one can oppose her. Thats it.
So what happens in next season it's already on books or not?
>>71396682
>this episode is horrible because it detracts from the shitty novels
The show is already past ADWD. We literally have no idea now what is going to be different from here on out. This episode was objectively prime television and you have diarrhea taste. Sapochnik is a genius.
>>71391337
she checked her privilege as an old ugly female in game of thrones world and she knew it was well privileged
>>71397264
Targs were attained and banished (if not murdered) because of Aerys' actions. Robert, being a distant targ relative who was also nobility in his own right, was the perfect fit for the throne. Inheritance mattered, because Ned or Jon would have been better men to sit the throne, but completely switching dynasties would alienate and anger many parts of the kingdom.
>>71391337
Why the fuck is everything so easy for Cersei, Jon, and Dany?
>>71391337
might makes right
>>71397262
She was still the rightful ruler of those three kingdoms.
>>71397011
>>71397107
>>71397164
Like Renly said, only old maesters cares about the blood.
Robert had the biggest army after the battle of the Trident, targ blood or not, he would have took the throne anyway.
>>71396682
>>71397360
Oh well I >>71397353 guess it's not
She's a STRONK WOMYN who deserves to be queen over weak men.
Also did you see the rape and torture of Septa Unella? You go Cersei! Rape is so good when it happens to conservative women!
>>71397335
The whole of King's Landing SHOULD be opposing her. She just massacred the pope and the bishops, burned the church, and started even more wars.
Cersei literally only has Qyburn and Gregor on her team, yet there are no riots?
>>71397386
Jon only had to kill his idol, his lover, lose most of his family and get stabbed to death . But yeah, it's been pretty easy for him
>>71397386
plot armor
>>71391402
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_mother
>A widowed queen consort, or dowager queen, has an important royal position (regardless whether or not she is the mother of the reigning sovereign) but does not normally have any rights to succeed a king as monarch on his death unless she happens to be next in line to the throne (one possibility would be if the King and Queen were also cousins and childless, the King had no other siblings, and she in her other position as his cousin was also his heiress presumptive).
>>71397477
She nuked a dozen city blocks and probably killed thousands of people. Who is gonna rise up against her when she'll just destroy the whole city if challenged?
>>71391402
No they don't it's male primogeniture in all of Westeros except Dorne
>>71391402
It happens, but it's very rare
>>71397443
But the fact that out of the three leaders of the rebellion, he was the one to take the throne, mattered. He was close enough to a targ to be crowned by inheritance (since all other targs were attained), which ensured the appearance of
lawfulness, which in turn matters to keep order in the kingdom.
Crowning Ned or Jon would have led to rebellions much more devastating than balon's
>>71397532
>City blocks
Did she? It looked like only the sept got burned somehow.
Remember when the Lannisters and Tyrells couldn't take action against the sparrows because the smallfolk would rebel? Did all the populace suddenly forget their religious fervor?
>>71391402
A queen can't inherit her husbands position.
However, a queen mother can possibly inherit her sons titles.
who crowned her if the high septon just blew up?
It is literally impossible to believe that Cersei took the throne and everyone accepted it
-all of kings landing hate her because of the cult fucks
-was known for her hatred of the Tyrells
-knew about the wild fire
-was known for being cruel to everyone and thing
-is the ONLY person that can actually pull this stupid shit off
-literally rumors with claims that her children weren't Baratheons
-is the person who caused ALL her allies to either go against her or not bother to help since they're so small
-is responsible for the food shortage before and now AGAIN
>>71397670
>Remember when the Lannisters and Tyrells couldn't take action against the sparrows because the smallfolk would rebel?
They couldn't take action because they were supported by the king.
>>71391402
No.
>>71397703
The new high septon perhaps?
Jon had a harder life than daenerys or cersei
Also he got laid less than them but thats ok i guess since most of them were not consensual
>>71397755
>jon had a harder life than daenerys
Maybe he does now, but certainly not during most of their lives
>>71391337
>Did she just usurp without any question?
Yes. She has absolutely zero legitimacy, legally speaking.
Well, she's not Queen of much other than King's Landing and Casterly Rock anyway. The North has declared independence again, and Highgarden and Dorne are just waiting for Daenerys to come along before they rebel too.
>>71397754
Qyburn is a maester, not a septon
>>71397670
She just got crowned. Wait until then ext episode at least before you bitch.
Cercei "Wyldfire Cannister" Lannister.
>>71397420
Her "rightful" claim wasn't self-decided. It was based on the magnates' opinion, in a state of emergency. And she did not at all have a peaceful relationship with them during her regency. Which is part of the reason why the Kalmar Union had shaky stability and collapsed not long after its formation.
>>71397810
>She has absolutely zero legitimacy, legally speaking.
Except that her son was king. You might think this doesn't count, but there are historical instances of this happening.
>>71397810
Damn, the North is yuuge, YUUUGE!
>>71391520
>good guys are enemies with bad guys
I hate these tropes..
>>71397709
>It is literally impossible to believe that Cersei took the throne and everyone accepted it
The martels are dead and dorne is independent, the tyrells are almost extinct, the north has their own concerns, the aryns dont give a fuck and the freys are allies. The small lords from each region arent going to all band together and the people of kings landing arent going to attempt to fight zombie mountain and the lannister army or risk having the city blown up. Right now there's no one to oppose cersei
>>71397859
>You might think this doesn't count, but there are historical instances of this happening.
Yeah, in very specific cases which don't apply here.
See: >>71397524
>>71397710
Cersei detonated the sept while Tommen was alive, so I doubt she cared he supported the faith.
They have been scheming for six seasons behind the backs of kings. Tommen is a known retard, why would Cersei and the Tyrells happily leave their heirs in custody when they have the might to crush the faith's rebellion?
Remember when Tywin ordered Joffrey put to bed because even though he was king the men listened to the man talking sense? If your son is steering your kingdom into a tree, push him aide and take the wheel; that's like exactly what a regent is for.
>>71396529
You can't reduce all medieval history to a single point conflating all the years 500-1500. Succession rules became much clearer from c. 1050 onward, favoring primogeniture in Western Europe (the region Martin is generally borrowing his history from). Succession crises were still a problem, but only really in the case of a minority (when usually it was the regency/governing council that was at issue, not the heir), or (the worst case) a lack of a legitimate son, potentially requiring the king's brothers/nephews/daughters to duke it out. Still, all English kings (except four: two brothers, one nephew/daughter, one grandson) from 1066-1399 were the preceding king's eldest surviving son. Same for all French monarchs (except three: two brothers, one grandson) from 996-1422. In the event of a new dynasty or cadet branch taking over, people worked very hard to legitimize themselves legally.
>>71397839
The Kalmar union lasted almost roughly 120 years.
>>71397709
She pays the goldcloaks who stick their spear into anyone who gets uppity
looks like /tv/ is finally stirred by compelling television. Usually all you cynics do is complain. This whole thread is discussion made my people who enjoyed the finale. Nice
>>71397947
So the goldcloaks exist again? I missed them when 100 religious peasants showed up and started arresting nobility on fucking perjury.
>>71397011
See
>>71396928
Cersei and Jamie are probably the individuals in Westeros with the most Baratheon blood.
>>71397790
Both of them were treated like golden cows, the difference was one loved to fuck her borther and the other got fucked many times but didnt enjoy it as much
Jon was loved by Ned by treated like shit by everyone else at least he can survive fire so thats good for him since i bet he got some burns after Ygrrite
>>71397054
Because /tv/ can't fathom the passage of time unless it's in a montage
>>71391337
Her claim is that might=right. Which has been in the series since Season 1.
>>71398036
Were you not here when everyone bitched about how Arya shouldn't have been able to "suddenly" become good at fighting blind? /tv/ doesn't understand passage of time when it's in a montage either.
>>71391337
I really hope she wins in the end just to fuck with everyone.
Much like the BREXIT outcome
>>71397976
But the point is the appearance of rightful succession, the law of the land, the foundation of any fucking stable monarchy, is extremely important. Cersei just swooped in and snatched the throne without any trouble. Sand sneks swooped in and took over Dorne without any Dornish opposing them.
This isn't even paying lip service to inheritance, and it's especially jarring when the whole conflict that started the show apparently could have been solved by a peasant ripping Joffrey apart in the riot and declaring himself the next king by rite of conquest.
>>71397939
The official dates mean almost nothing. It was in a constant state of crisis after Margaret's death. And it was mostly just an anti-Hanseatic economic league anyway.
>>71396805
>so I don't think anyone in Westeros will press their claim.
Except like, Dorne. And High Garden.
>>71398111
Getting hit with a stick for a whole season is not exactly the best way to make a good training montage.
>>71398290
Very few of D&D's choices make good viewing, but it's still ridiculous when people are so dense that they don't even understand what's shown on the screen and start wondering how Arya could suddenly fight blind when she couldn't in the last episode.
>>71398357
Yeah, there's much better things to complain about in e8 than her fighting skills.
>>71398290
I agree. But a lot of scenes are explicitly showing something even if it is a shitty presentation. Some people are just dullards, and others are presenting their dislike of said presentation as a "plothole." Overtime that shit just blends together.
At this point, I really miss Edric Storm. A known highborn Baratheon bastard with a claim would have been interesting
>>71397386
>easy for jon
He literally got killed and brought back to life. Dany has it easier.
Does NO ONE
Feels bad that House Baratheon is extinct? An entire dynasty is gone, forever. You can't undo that damage.
Its not like the targaryen line where their exterminatus was just a meme, the baratheons actually died.
The reason why Cersei is Queen, is because there isn't a person within a 100 miles that is powerful enough (aside from Jaime) to be able to lay claim to the throne.
She's a usurper, & will be overthrown soon enough.
>>71397477
Wildfire caches under the city that only Qyburn, her, and Jaime know of now that Pycelle is dead, as well as the Lannister army being in Kings Landing.
And Gregor Clegane/Qyburn, like you said.
If you unironically found yourself asking OP's question you are a fucking idiot
>>71399043
bobbys hubris was the root cause, If I was king I would go harem mode and legitimise all my bastards just incase
worked for the ottomans for centuries
>>71399365
It isn't working for Walder Frey though.
>>71399424
they frey household will remain, I doubt even arya will be able to or even want to kill all of the sons and daughters
would be cool if she did though
>>71399424
If Frey hadn't been sowing his seed left and right his house would already be extinct.
>>71391337
Her claim is through force, she killed all the nobles and seized the throne.
>>71397939
I suggest you stop responding, you're just going to make yourself sound like a bigger retard.
Don't you know more than people who actually know shit about the subject, just because you read a "cool fact" on reddit doesn't make you an expert.
>>71399785
Don't argue with*
Serious question, what do people think Lyanna said to Ned on her deathbed? Who is Jon's father?
Also, how did anyone ever even think Jon was Ned's bastard son? How did that happen? How did it never leak out?
And one final question. How the fuck is it possible that the rightful queen builds up a HUGE fucking army over the course of months and months, maybe even more than a year, and not a single peep of it gets to the people in King's Landing? I don't get how that could even happen.
>>71391516
Why doesn't Gregor just take the throne for himself now?
>>71399952
>Who is Jon's father?
It's the madking.
That entire scene was of Ned rescueing her from the madking who kidnapped her and raped her.
>>71399952
Rhaegar. They even talk about Lyana getting 'kidnapped' by him in the intro to the episode. Ned lied about Jon being his son to protect him(you can hear them talk about this in that scene). Robert has said, and attempted to kill every living known Targaryen that may potentially have claim. They have heard about her army. There are scenes constantly throughout the entire series that have characters in Westeros getting updated about Daenery's actions in Essos. Are you sure you watch the show?
