Am I the only one who thinks the tactics used by Jon Snow and Ramsey were atrociously bad with numerous fundamental mistakes (exposing flanks ,terrible mixed unit tactics)
>>71034898
should have fielded nothing but bows
>can penetrate any armor or shield
>pinpoint accuracy
>effective at any range
probably the only more powerful weapon than the bow is whatever baelish used to teleport all his dudes there
>>71034898
Yes, because it was composed from a script which was probably hastily thrown together last year and didn't have a decently well-researched novel to fall back on for most of their information.
>>71034898
The whole episode was dogshit
You shouldn't think about this stuff there are dragons and the trees have faces why would anything make sense
Dindu Nuffins in season 7
>>71035053
>whatever baelish used to teleport all his dudes there
Whatever he used isn't as powerful as whatever Reek and Lady Reek used to get to Meereen at Warp Speed
>>71035053
It's called a cargo jet you pleb
When you have one you can also drop shit like bombs onto Ye olde knights
>>71034898
Yes.
>cavalry just charges straight into infantry instead of circling around them, chasing down stragglers, etc..
>Bolton army completely surrounds Jon's army even though one of the golden rules of medieval warfare is to never completely surround your enemy
>Jon just completely eschews digging trenches and staying on the defensive and solo charges into Ramsay's numerically superior vanguard
What the fuck were they thinking.
>>71035106
The whole series*
>>71035264
>Bolton army completely surrounds Jon's army even though one of the golden rules of medieval warfare is to never completely surround your enemy
this one you could explain as ramsay not giving a fuck
don't get me wrong though it was a stupid fucking scene
>>71034898
Well one is half retarded and the other is a psychopath. It's amazing what they both managed to pull off
>>71035264
>>71035475
>one of the golden rules of medieval warfare is to never completely surround your enemy
why is this
>>71034898
>One is borderline insane, is too cocky and generally thinks he's untouchable
>One is a kid who's never really lead an army before except against a band of wildfolk.
Gee i wonder why they aren't seasoned war tacticians.
>>71035264
Jon is transitioning into a hot head.
>>71035264
>>Jon just completely eschews digging trenches and staying on the defensive and solo charges into Ramsay's numerically superior vanguard
You're a fool. They mentioned that they dug trenches to their flanks, but Jon ran out into the battle as a result of Ramsay's ploy with Rickon. At that point, they had to send their army after him to protect their commander.
Also what's with this 'golden rule'?
>>71035595
Presumably because fight to the death results in huge casualty on both side. It's often better to kill just enough of the enemy and let them flee
you might be the only one who applied autistic armchair battle tactics to a fantasy tv show.
>>71035106
>>71035266
wow u 2 r so edgy!
>>71035595
Cornered enemies fight harder, it seems obvious but that's the rule
in a wider context it's more about not pressing your advantage more than you need to in any situation, not necessarily to be literally surrounding them. men that think their only alternative is death will fight harder and cost you resources
Well both commanders were 20 year old hotheads. Ramsay was overconfident and likes violence and Jon Snow was blind with rage, and also a zombie.
>>71035595
>>71035751
It's much more profitable to set up a pincer attack, leaving a chance to retreat backwards, and then squeeze the enemy into routing. While an army is in rout, you can chase them down with cavalry and wipe them out.
If you completely surround an enemy, they'll have no choice but to fight to the death, which will mean you'll lose more men in the process of finishing them.
>>71034898
>give wun wun any kind of weapon at all
>immediately win because giants are fucking invincible
nah just have him punch things. that was really stupid.
>>71034898
Yep. The directing was really good but the writing was complete shit. It's sad the writers don't actually care at all about medieval history when it was George's primary influence.
>>71035595
Because then your enemy can quip at you something stupid like
>Surrender we have you surrounded
>Good, I have you right where I want you
At which point you know they have reinforcements ready to rape your butthole the second you turn your back to them
>>71035834
silly. the romans got rekt at cannae when they were encircled.
>>71035940
it's also the cumulative effect of every writing decision since episode 9 last year causing everyone's actions to make no sense.
>>71035677
This. Neither of them are great commanders. If Ramsey was actually competent he would've stayed at Winterfell and let them attempt a siege while he sent some ravens out for reinforcements from the south.
>>71035903
>Months of prep time and Wun Wun hasnt made a weapon for himself
Is he the dumbest GoT character?
Who gives a fuck. Seriously.
>>71035903
Toss, what a mistake! He should have maxed avalanche. Idiot went first item blink and had nothing in the late game.
>>71035989
If you encircle an enemy you're still going to win, it's just going to cost you more men in doing so. The best option as said here:>>71035869 is a pincer attack.
>>71035989
That wasn't full fucking encircling. It was the invention of a beautiful pincer tactic.
>>71035832
two is a strong number.
Giant used tree truck to fucking rekt undead at Hardhome
HEY GUYS LETS NOT GIVE HIM A WEAPON!!!
Wtf we're they thinking?
>>71035707
instead of being cool he is being bold?snow to stark
>>71034898
Jon's plan fell apart when he tried to save his brother, shit went to hell after that and was only saved when Little Finger saved there dumb assesThough i do love that shot with Tormond, Jon, and Wun Wun If anyone has that please post it..
>>71036092
cyka blyat I fuck you gamburger
>>71034898
Overall, I thought the battle scene was pretty good. Surprisingly well-shot and high-budget. One thing that did bug me was how Jon's army just sorta stood around looking dumb-founded as Ramsay's guys got into position for the shield wall.
>>71035993
What exactly would you mean by this?
>>71035957
>giants are fucking invincible
not when matched against the mighty bow they aren't
>>71035989
that wasn't really the same thing, but the point is more about what it costs you
>>71035903
>Wun Wun in full plate with a 6 inch thick tower shield
>>71036200
Sansa's behavior actually makes sense when you realize she didn't expect Jon to go full Targaryan on the whole army. like, she figured she had at least 30 minutes more than that.
>>71034898
I don't care, I fucking told you faggots that Ramsey was going get devoured by his own hounds and I got laughed at. Suck a fat cock!
>>71035221
Seriously? They left Westeros three episodes ago.
>>71036076
>>71035903
Like shit, why didn't that dude just grab a tree or something, he would have demolished their heavy shield column.
Anyone got Jon going UFC on Ramsay?
>>71034898
What i hated was that after Smalljon charged there were clearly still thousands of soldiers behind Ramsay but after Baelish showed up they apparently all dissapeared or we were supposed to believe they were part of that charge.
Ramsay was supposed to outnumber Jon two to one and they did a piss poor job of portraying that.
>>71035264
>one of the golden rules of medieval warfare is to never completely surround your enemy
Why?
>>71035903
Wun Wun has the strenght of 12goodmen, he's not invincible.
>>71036318
He couldve carved a tree into a club and also built a shield with bound together stumps with all the time he had.
We missed out on some badass giant thwomping thanks to the director/writer/whoever
>>71036358
It's easier to rout your enemy and kill them while they're fleeing. This is why most medieval battles are so lopsided in terms of casualties. If you surround them completely they'll all fight to the death and you'll incur more losses.
>>71034898
It annoys me how Jon Snow seemingly lost all the battle sense he gained over the numerous battles he won using his brain up at the wall.
He didn't even lose his shit like that when his ginger bae was killed, yet literally fucking charged into 6000 good men on foot over some shitty little brother he barely even had a connection with.
Felt like a poor writing excuse to give Sansa the spotlight.
>>71036358
Because it's easier to let them rout than fight them to their deaths.
When routed they can be simply chased by cavalry without much resistance.
>>71036411
I like how Dany has three invincible dragons costing a billion dollars in CGI but D&D for some reason prioritize taking away Jon's OP shit.
>supposedly set in fantasy Dark Ages
>everyone can afford mail, helmets and swords
>all soldiers are professional and not levies
>>71036469
I think Jon's at his mental breaking point.
>>71036358
nt even medieval
that shit is literally sun tzu 101
The worst part of this episode was Wun Wun not having some type of weapon or even armor i mean for fucks sakes hes a giant a wrecking machine in your hands. I could forgive everything else but wtf.
>>71036283
She was still a cunt for keeping it all a secret.
>>71036494
lel modern American soldiers have to buy their own body armor but /got/ soldiers are apparently all from the New Model Army or something.
>>71036494
GoT is set during the decline of a golden age (the targ rule), so a few professional armies still being around is fairly normal.
>>71036469
I think it was a few things, He cared about his brother, he was there for him until he went to the wall, he thought he was dead at one point, when he was just there to save him and Ramsey put the arrow though him, he knew he was being played, Ramsey is an expert hunter, He could have easily hit that shot.
But I for one loved how he threw down his sword and grabbed a shield and just went to town on Bolton, though it does feel weird there is just a random Stark shield lying around.
>>71034898
>sansa withholds information about backup from the vale and possibly riverrun
>tells juan snow that ramsay is going to bait him and not to fall for it
>jon takes the fuckin bait
>>71036595
yeah expect that to never be addressed because D&D made the decision about having her marry Ramsay before the previous season without fully planning out how to cope with the long term effects.
>>71036494
>There will never be a Band of Brothers type show where english peasants with thier family's rusty pothelms and some shitty spears have to invade Wales
Did you not pay attention?!??!
Team snow made a tactical plan... typical tactical plan. Which ginger shot to shit. Team snow ignored advice and continued.
Team Ramsey did what they do best. Play mind games. Pulled a seen right out of Apacaliptico ( bad spelling)
Team snow lost their shit and threw tactic out the window..luckily snow is currently untouchable.
Team snow refused to unleash the arrows because the mass casualties they would have recieved.
Team Ramsey made it clear he didnt give a fuck about his men dying. He unleashed arrows creating a mound of death between him and team snow.
Team snow lost thier shit and sent archers in
Team Ramsey sent in an entire force creating a u shape of shields and trapping team snow between a rock and a mountain of death.
Remember snow was out numbered by a shit load. Ramsey had nothing but time and soldiers.
Little finger with the bird crew cav made it
FYI I hoped for a better fight... but i loved how they showed how weak Ramsey truly was
NO HAND TO HAND COMBAT SKILLLS
Can only hurt ppl tied up or weak or at a distance. True cuck.
>>71036639
Kinda weird for this to still be the case this late in the story. By this point I would imagine most of the great/competant warrors dying.
Plus we all saw how well Stannis' army did, an actual professional army.
Wait how did Stannis' army route the wildlings then go on to lose to Bolton then the Wildlings crush Bolton?
Ramsay's death was complete bullshit
>tied to chair in kennel
>surrounded by starved dogs
>all doors to other dog kennels wide open
>starved dogs only show interest in meat when Sansa shows
>mfw
>>71035264
>golden rules of medieval warfare is to never completely surround your enemy
Why?
I think the tactics were pretty solid. Cut off the enemy advance and take their flank. The only fucked up thing was he cut off enemy advance by creating a wall of enemies and allies. I think that was pretty fucking Ramsey.
>>71036641
Yeah, well Sansa's a dumb cunt who cost countless men their lives. Had she told Jon that more men may be coming, things could have gone a lot more smoothly.
>>71036772
You want the enemy able to rout to minimize your losses in a victory.
>>71035751
They talked about digging trenches, but look at the overhead shot of their army. They are lined up in front of the tree line, but I didn't see any trenches dug.
>>71036640
Wasn't a Stark shield, it was a Mormont shield.
>>71036732
Half of sannis army deserted between the battles. Or maybe wildlings are grass, stannis is fire, and bolton is water.
It's a ritual of mine, after watching the newest GoT episode, to go to youtube and cringe at the cringey headlines of IGN's recap videos.
>>71036826
That ground was frozen to shit, there's no way they could have dug trenches anyway.
>>71034898
I think you need to shut the fuck up and stop pretending to know anything about combat tactics.
>>71034898
>Have a battle in front of Winterfell when you have 1/4th of the numbers and the enemy can easily retreat into their castle forcing you into a siege you can't possibly win
Jon's plan was always retarded
>>71036934
they had a giant
>>71036732
On a historical scale, it's not late at all. We're only 18 years out from the fall of the targs. Empires decline over centuries.
Stannis was defeated by the winter. Half his force had deserted, his logistics were shot to shit. This too is no way historically unprecedented.
Bolton was defeated by the master rusery of CIA. The wildlings were merely one of his many honeypots.
>>71036880
Makes even less sense then.
![wallscythe[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/aASmU9f.gif "wallscythe[1].gif")
>Wun Wun just flailing about with his bare hands until he's shot to death
Nobody thought "Hey, we should give the giant like a big log or something to smack the enemy with"?
I mean you can pull shit like the "Scythe" out of your ass but giving Wun Wun a chopped down tree is too much to ask for?
>>71034898
Jon is a retard.
>he has the numbers we have to be patient
>don't fall into his traps
And then he charged head-first into the fucking trap.
>>71036975
Frozen ground is basically like stone.
>>71035595
Because this isn't Age of Empires where you have to kill every last man for the AI to realize it's lost
>>71035993
So much this. The outcomes are what we expect, but the path the characters follow to get to them is shit.
>>71037002
Would you do the same for your brother?
He lost Robb, he did not want to lose Riken too.
>>71036271
>this
He's basically all of the myths about how big the mountain is actually realised
He could wear inch thick plate armor and rock a great sword and shield and basically be unkillable unless someone has wildfire
why didnt they get Wun Wun a stick or even a basket of rocks what the fuck
>>71037001
now imagine Wun Wun with a big ass scythe
Not even 20 good men can stand up to that
>>71035595
Battles are won by making the other army flee. If they have nowhere to go, they get suicidally heroic since there's no better option.
>>71035903
Why didn't they just make him a bow like they did for the battle at The Wall? Shit would break down the door and pierce that whole fucking line of shields.
>>71037066
The moment Rickon was shot he should've turned back instead of compromising everything.
Would've make more sense if a Wildling was general instead of Jon desu. Has Jon ever really commanded anyone during the series never mind a full scale army?
>>71037066
Nope because I am autistic INTJ masterrace
>D&D praising themselves on a realistic medieval battle.
>"Where two parties meet at an agreed upon field and throw everything they have at each other."
>>71037066
Jon's actions were suicidal. it's plausible that people in real life might act that retarded, but in a story it just comes off as being for dramatic effect because he's been established as less hotheaded than that.
Also Sansa not mentioning LF at any point but then that's clearly just awful adaptation resulting from abandoning her Vale plotline.
>>71037115
Rage is a bitch apparently. Though we never would have gotten this awesome shot if he didn't try to get Bolton
>>71037115
Watch carefully. He had no option but to push forward because he couldn't outrun the arrows if he retreated, whilst pushing forward actually fucked the archers' aim.
>>71036753
This image will never not remind me of titus pullo
>>71037125
The Nights Watch against the wildlings and at Crasters Keep. That's about it
>>71035238
>how littlefinger gets across westeros so fast
>>71036573
Yeah. If they gave him even shitty wood logs he would have been worth 400 more men.
>>71036573
Worst drawing ever
>>71037193
yeah I guess that's how Jon avoided ever being hit with an arrow, he has this ability to trick bowmen by doing the unexpected, no one really understands how he does it.
>>71037164
I think the Sansa thing was a last minute choice on her part, She did tell him to fuck off but she might have sent a Raven to him, thought where he was hiding like, 3000 men who fucking knows.
>>71034898
Yeah how dare a character have flaws.
Idiot.
If Jon pulled out a fully armored and armed Wun Wun as a trump card or secret weapon of some sort, I would then find this battle a bit more believable, then the arrival of the Vale wouldn't be THAT eye-roll inducing. At least there would have been some feasible semblance of a fighting chance as opposed to
>"What's that you say? Twice or men? Let's just throw everything at them then hope for the best LOL."
He didn't bring ANYTHING to the table but inadequate numbers.
>>71037085
Just fucking, put in a scene like this:
>pan through a camp as everyone is readying gear/whatever
>Group of Night's Watch, Wildlings, Jon and Tormund looking at the Scythe with Wun Wun, who is struggling to lift it
>Told you it wouldn't work
>he snaps the enormous, thick chain off, gives it a few test whirls around his head like a flail while everyone else backs off
Wun Wun could have cheesed that entire battle, he was their trump card, but he does absolutely nothing but awkwardly slap a few guys and break the gate down after everyone has already been massacred.
>>71037261
subtle
>>71036573
Giants are Wookies in the books or some shit?
>>71037303
Imagine if they gave him that giant anchor they used to break off a part of the wall.
>>71037289
>Twice *our men?
>>71037247
her behavior doesn't make any sense no matter how you slice it, but then neither did the concept of marrying Ramsay so fuck it.
meanwhile Sansa in the books is having cute Jane Austen scenes with her probably-rapist soon-to-be fiancee.
>>71036753
this
they should have just flayed him and made him into his own sigil
>>71037261
John was never, ever like that before. He's always been able to reign it in and do the logical thing.
>>71037381
This. Christ, this shit writes themselves. The wasted potential with the giant is pretty unforgivable. Written effectively, or rather with any kind of purpose, he would have helped make the battle so less bullshit.
>>71037464
>themselves
itself
>>71036469
I feel like Jon doesn't even really want to live anymore. He knew they didn't have "enough" men, he told Mels to not try to bring him back again, he rushed into battle knowing he shouldn't have, in general he's just been a lot more rash since he got brought back.
>>71036641
To be fair Sansa might not have known LF would come through after she told him to basically stay the fuck out of her life for good. And like I said earlier Jon's been a lot more rash since he was brought back, I'm really not sure if he planned to survive.
>>71037464
they went for full "no hope" to try to hide how nonsensical the logic behind the Vale knights showing up was.
>>71037464
I wouldn't mind Jon winning the battle because of his Giant. Would've made more sense than teleporting CIA. Also would've been cool to see Wun-Wun in full armor and shield.
>>71037164
>>71037247
>>71037430
Sansa not mentioning LF at any point is the continuation of the vale plotline. LF has planned all of this. He wanted to destroy the Boltons and he also wanted Snow and wildings to suffer heavy casualties, leaving winterfell entirely for his own taking.
This is why Sansa turns up at Castle Black and demands that Jon help her reclaim winterfell. This is also why she intentionally avoids mentioning LF, who has instructed her against doing so.
In the scene in the command tent before the battle, what you're supposed to be seeing is her struggle to decide whether to remain faitfhful to LF or to inform Jon and save a couple thousand wilding lives. Only, the actress sucks and d&d are shit writers.
>>71037464
It could have been pretty god damn intimidating, though im pretty fucking surprised no one on the Bolton side talked about it.
>"Hey Frank"
>"Yea James?"
>"Is... Is that fucking Giant?"
>"Whcih one?"
>"The one thats 20 feet fucking tall!"
>"I think you're right
>Fuck this
>Yep
/tv/ what the fuck is wrong with me, she's like fucking 50. But every time she's on screen I am motherfucking diamonds.
I didn't really care about the execution of the battle, it was a typical case of hollywood tactics, which we see almost everywhere.
But 2 things really rustled my jimmies.
1. Judging from how much time took for Littlefinger to arrive, Vale's army should be within 10 miles from Winterfell when the battle started. Having that knowledge, why the fuck did Ramsay sally forth? Also note that vale's invasion should be going on for a couple of weeks, considering how vast the North is and the siege of Moat Cailin. There is no way for Ramsay to be unaware of this, yet he acted surprised when he got charged. There is also a limit to how much you can say "it's just Ramsay not giving a fuck xD". He is not suicidal.
2. Sansa not informing Jon about Vale reinforcements. The only reason why Jon survived is because of plot armor. Or if we want to pretend that this is not the case, he was just very lucky (xD). Under any other circumstance, her beloved brother would be dead. An ambush could still be played correctly and with minimal loses if Sansa informed him. But she didn't, because she knew that the writers wouldn't kill him off. But they still lost over 90% of their army, all because they wanted to make Sansa seem like a "player of the game of thrones xDDDD" who makes stratagems and ruses.
>>71036679
Gonna bag some of that Welsh gowd Warhamma.
>>71037670
> she's like fucking 50.
Did you miss a zero there or are you just underage?
>>71037670
You're a GILF's lover.
>>71037723
Regarding your second point, see
>>71037635
>>71037635
>the actress sucks
she's not great but I think she did a good job this episode.
and i think you're wrong about the masterplan - there was no actual opportunity for LF to propose it. Arya getting actually stabbed (among other things) demonstrates that D&D will sometimes imply a more interesting twist is coming than actually emerges.
I wonder if there was a lot of reshooting this season as they tried to figure out some version of events that might at least please normies.
>>71037621
I would have been satisfied with
>Jon initially getting his shit pushed in like we saw
>Just when the power struggle begins to look bleak, Wun Wun rushes the scene tank'd up
>Momentary tip of the scales
>Wun Wun eventually overwhelmed and believed to be dead
>Forces pushed to the brink akin to the death circle we saw
>THEN the Vale arrives
>Wun Wun, in his final breaths, breaches Winterfell with fatal battle damage and things then play out the way shown in the episode
I wouldn't even be mad with something in that vein happening.
And like this guy said >>71037649, it was indeed bullshit how nobody was taken aback by the fucking Giant. Aren't the believed to be of myth south of the wall?
>>71037723
Or maybe Sansa just want Jon dead to have winterfell.
>>71035903
>buying aghs on wunwun
>>71037740
I meant the actress you moron.
>>71037789
Yea I need to adjust my porn accordingly.
Why is sansa so smart?
After surrounding the enemy, why didnt they just, kill them? thy poked them one step at a time, why even stop? why not just walk into them? can someone explain please
>>71037840
>there was no actual opportunity for LF to propose it
I believe he informs of his plan around the time of the meeting at the whorehouse in mottsville. i could be wrong about her initial request for help being wrong, but a CIA plot is the only logical way to explain her never mentioning him, despite being given so many obvious opportunities to do so.
>>71037840
>>71037961
typo:
I could be wrong about her initial request for help being a part of his plans*
>>71037649
I expected to see more of a reaction when he tore that soldier apart.
>>71035053
>whatever baelish used to teleport all his dudes there
You mean the power of lazy, cliched writing?
>>71037879
What was so infuriating was that they made him pick up a shield. So they acknowledge that he can use weapons but don't write him in a log??
To be fair, I thought it was obvious that the times in which scenes take place are left abstract so they can pull shit like they did tonight.
Really doesn't bother me.
>>71035677
Exactly this.
>>71037903
>Like 50
>40 on the dot
Underage it is.
>>71037904
so smart?
She just let all these men get slaughtered instead of telling Jon to chill the fuck back
>giant was barehanded not having a huge log club
what kinda shit is shit
>>71035751
>You're a fool. They mentioned that they dug trenches to their flanks, but Jon ran out into the battle as a result of Ramsay's ploy with Rickon. At that point, they had to send their army after him to protect their commander.
Why? So what if Jon dies? Sansa was the one who was important.
Tactics can be explained. Ramsay is an evil cunt who is only good at killing people. He is not a tactician. He wanted to kill as many people as possible in the battle. If the books are anything to go by he also would have wanted to weaken the Northern Houses a bit by getting a bunch of their men slaughtered. Jon had a plan but then he got angry and the plan went to shit. Sansa was the only samrt one here desu She told him not to do what he wanted him to do and he did it anyway.
>>71034898
GoT is poorly written in general. What makes you think the battles would be good?
>>71036076
not only that but they could have strapped on some fucking 4" iron plate on him. dude is big enough and strong enough to walk around with that shit
did the giant die?
>>71034898
What i want to know is how the fuck did Peter Baelish get past the twins?
If he could cross into the North without Walder Frey's permission then why was the crossing so important to Robb? If Baelish can march across with an army of plated knights surely Robb could have with his northmen.
Even if he was already in the North by the time he got Sansas letter, what was he doing there? And it still begs the question as to why the fuck would the Lannisters/Freys/Tyrells/Boltons alliance allow Baelish to waltz around the north with an army for what to them would appear to be no reason?
>>71038188
>why didnt they just all charge at once why did they just let thier commander play around
>sansa is the important one
not to the people fighting they are following jon not sansa
>>71038226
Ramsey had to get one last fuck you in.
Well all my normie friends are like "omg best episode evar!!# dragons!!! That big battle was awesome!! I love Sansa!!!"
>>71038291
Really the episode was very good. If youre mad at the episode you are autistic simple as that
jon deserved to lose. this isnt even the same fucking show anymore, we just get deus ex machina anytime the good guys are in trouble. fuck this im done
>>71037066
They copied from Tolkein. Remember when Faramir saw Eowyn on the battlefield and despaired, fucking charged into the ranks of the fags from Nurn? (this is from the actual book)
>>71038291
>All these god damn feminist posts
>Danny just told them to fuck off and burnt there shitThe masters where just so fucking cartoonishly evil at this point, "All your solders will be ours, same with her, you leave with nothing and we kill your dragons, fucking really?
>Yara just backed down from everything she was brought up with because it was the only way she could do anything
>Sansa had her moment yes but thats it
>Mormont was in it for ONE SCENE, WHO CARES?!
>>71038291
>>71038330
Visually it's one of the best.
>>71038330
>letting your commander run on the open field like a fool
>literally taking a shit while you commander is running in the middle of the field empty while the enemy
>>71038330
Its only good compared to the mediocre shit weve gotten this season (and much of last DESU)
Is it show canon now that this guy is the strongest human to ever exist?
Didn't he take out a giant by himself.
Im still not sure why WunWun didn't just start kicking all the shield fags.
It seems entirely plausable that just him kicking the dog shit outta em would have broken the whole thing.
Also
>Wildlings before they join up with Jon Snow
>at least 4 to 6 other Giants shown
>Wildlings post joining up with Jon Snow
>1 entire Giant left
Don't get me wrong, just 2 or 3 more giants on Jons side would have completely assfucked most of Ramseys strategy but still Theirs gotta be at least a few of the big fuckers left
>>71038363
They need to start ending the show. They're just tying up stories together. Jamie is probably going to kill cersei next episode and head to the north to meet brianne.
>>71038291
>I love Sansa!!!"
This is gonna trigger so bad tomorrow. Fuck.
>"She saved the day! Suck it Ramsey! So badass!!!11 XD"
>>71036772
You dont have to deal with the enemy fighting to the death
If you get them in a pincer a lot of men will die quickly and run away because they will see an escape route. That way your losses are minimized and the battle is over way faster.
Its far more practical to try and get your enemy to run away then to kill them all.
>>71034898
Maybe they had ships? Or LF built a bunch of jetpacks for everyone to use.
>>71038330
It was good but it is VERY clear the writing is in decline, so many more plot holes and predictable tropes each episode, characters actions/motivations becoming more incoherent each episode, character development for some becoming totally schizophrenic, already two major plotlines completely gone to shit (Arya and the Sneks).
>>71038431
Before it was the Blacksmith that made Robert's hammer, at least in the books, i forget his name.
>>71038229
Look at a map.
At the heart of Westeros is the crossroads, where the major north-south and east-west roads crosspaths. This is where the Crossroads Inn is and this is where the Trident is.
Riverrun is west of the crossroads. It's positioned within the Riverlands, which contains many tributaries. One of the largest rivers is the Red Fork. When Robb marched south from Winterfell he marched to Riverrun which required crossing the Red Fork. And the only crossing of the Red Fork, a crossing that could handle an army, is the Twins.
Robb could have circumvented the Twins but he would have had to head south down the Kingsroad then head west. That takes him dangerously close to Lannister territory, as well as adding weeks (possibly months) to his transit time.
All of this shit is west of the Kingsroad. The Vale is east of it. Littlefinger's force could simply head north up the Kingsroad and bypass the Freys entirely.
The real problem is how they were able to pass through Moat Cailin, which is the stronghold that makes the North impossible to conquer. He would have had to capture the castle or pretend he was coming to aid Lord Bolton. It's also possible that he traveled by sea to White Harbor, which is near Moat Cailin. In the books White Harbor publicly supports House Bolton but is secretly loyal to House Stark, and could possibly receive Littlefinger's army. But the show hasn't established that so it's a long shot.
>>71038432
Am I the only one that wanted him to fucking super Mario the shield guys? Or better yet, PUSH OVER THE BODY WALL, FUCK.
>>71038085
>didn't build aghanims and smash the shieldwall
>didn't throw wildlings/corpses over the shieldwall to cause chaos
>didn't throw anything really
>didn't kick anyone over the whole battle despite everyone being on the same level as his knees
>didnt crush anyone by falling on them
>didn't make it to giantbowl where he would fight the hound and the mountain, merged into one by the night king, on top of the wall
whats the point of having a giant in the story if you're not letting him be a giant?
>>71038514
Totally agree. I was thinking this season would be a complete write off until the past 3 episodes. It took them five episodes to get to a point where I actually cared about a single fucking thing that happened.
Lilfinger crossed by ships through White Harbour. The whole pook MAnderly storyline took place off-camera.
>>71037573
Yeah, Jon seemed almost positive he was going to lose. Besides, after being brought back from the dead, he probably realized dying out on a field trying to save his brother was a far better way to commit suicide than else.
>a bunch of neckbeards complaining about tactics in a fantasy TV show
>>71038572
do you know how heavy a pile of thousands of 200 pound men weighs
>>71038171
You know what, there's been so many people bringing this up that I refuse to believe this didn't come up during the episode's production.
Like somebody MUST have brought it up, right?
"Hey Dabid, the giant should have a big weapon"
No?
>>71034898
After re-watching the scene to observe exactly what happened in the pincer maneuver, Ramsey did NOT fully encircle them. Their flank was left open past a pile of dead bodies. When soldiers tried to flee the battle, he had another force picking them off from behind one by one. A perfectly executed pincer maneuver
>>71035053
Sansa wrote him prior to this he was already coming she just didn't tell Jon
>>71038514
The writing has got dramatically better since the show surpassed the books. Season 4 and 5 were just shit since that was the parts GRRM's books started to become shit. Now they are just making shit up and it's very good.
>>71038639
>do you know how heavy a pile of thousands of 200 pound men weighs
At least 400,000 pounds.
Let me guess, you've played a total war game so you're all now masters on medieval strategy?
>>71036271
in the months they had for prep time, they could've forged a fuckhueg sword, make some 6 inch plate armor, a big ass wooden shield and have him go full Yhorm the Giant from Dark souls 3
Game of Thrones fans remind me of pro wrestling fans. They do jack shit but complain all the time but won't stop watching it.
>>71038647
>"Hey Dabid, the giant should have....
>ALL THE MONEY WAS SPENT ON THE DRAGONS SHUT UP
>>71038647
If the giant had a weapon they would have had to kill him off immediately. Otherwise Jon just wins instantly and people are like "hurr durr that shit was so anticlimactic, cheap Jews didn't want to spend money on a real battle."
>"Give up all your customs, beliefs, and way of life."
>"Okay"
>>71038435
Why in the ever loving fuck would Jaime kill Cersei?
There was no such thing as "medieval strategy". Plenty of medieval battles were complete cluster fucks with mass deaths on both sides. It all depended on the leadership and both Ramsay and Jon Snow aren't the greatest tacticians.
>>71036880
Some Mormont guy got killed after they broke down the gate, and he dropped his shield. What about that doesn't make sense?
>>71035989
That was Hannibal with inferior numbers just trying to not die. He couldn't realistically make the Romans flee a battle where they had a 3:1 advantage(And even if they did flee they would just regroup and attack again later). So he had to kill them all to win.
>>71038647
>hey yo we gonna battle,and were outnumbered maybe we should arm the giant with a weapon or armor making him into a portable wall.
>fuck no we killed the wolfs to spend it all on dragons
>>71036469
Beric mentions losing part of himself every time he was resurrected, Jon has some darkness inside of him and is probably more susceptible to bloodlust now.
>>71038779
>"Give up all your customs, beliefs, and way of life."
>"No."
>"Okay, thanks for the free ships. Guards, arrest these two."
Are Khaleesi and theon sister going to fuck?
>>71037016
Again, they had a giant give him a giant rock and he would've made a moat in 30 minutes
>>71038779
They really have no choice.
Also raping and pillaging as a way of life hasn't worked out for them very well as people anyways..
>>71038779
This was bullshit.
>>71038578
Seriously, either have him get fucking murdered at the very start of the battle (guess what, he's a huge target) or let him actually do the shit he did before
>finished watching the episode
>holy fuck, it was awesome and one of the best got episodes i've ever seen
>come to /tv/
>/tv/ is complaining
You fucking autistic twats, can't you just enjoy something? Fucking hate you all, I don't even know why I bother to come here to discuss with you.
>>71038847
>implying she would arrest her future spouse
>>71038779
What was her other choice? Get on ships and head home and get killed after months of sailing to get there? I don't think so.
>>71038890
>defending shit story/plot because of muh visuals
>>71035264
>one of the golden rules of medieval warfare is to never surround your enemy
Says fucking who?
"The art of using troops is this:
……When ten to the enemy’s one, surround him;
……When five times his strength, attack him;
……If double his strength, divide him;
……If equally matched you may engage him;
……If weaker numerically, be capable of withdrawing;
……And if in all respects unequal, be capable of eluding him,
……….for a small force is but booty for one more powerful."
>Wun WUn didn't have a club
>Wun Wun didn't use that Club to smash through the Boton flank
You don't need to be a master of Medieval War fare to know not giving the giant a weapon is retarded
It was the best TV battle ever you fucking autists. Certainly the best medieval/fantasy tv themed battle on television. Name a better battle on television. You can't.
>>71038778
He really doesn't have to win instantly. Nor does he need to immediately die.
They are grossly outnumbered by an army that is much better than theirs. BUT, Jon's side has a giant.
If you think about it this shit really writes itself. There's just so many scenarios they could come up with to make the battle interesting and still have the Vale knights come in for the rescue.
>>71037723
maybe jon snow was stamford bridge and littlefinger would have been ramseys hastings
>>71038890
>reading thread
>holy fuck, it was awesome and one of the best threads i've seen
>reach this
>some autistic asshole is complaining in this thread that people don't like the same episode as him
You fkcing autistic twat, can't you just enjoy something? Fuck you, I don't know why I bother to come here when you're just gonna bitch about amazing threads
>>71038949
>“When you surround an army, leave an outlet free. Do not press a desperate foe too hard.”
>>71036411
>also built a shield with bound together stumps with all the time he had.
Fuck, he could have just grabbed a table from Castle Black and had a ready made shield.
>>71038955
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pj8yq_urL5c
![The_North[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/UQZJrAw.png "The_North[1].png")
>>71038229
>>71037723
ships are magic in GoT and house manderly controls white harbor that would be the competent explanation
>>71038977
>every week complain about got and how shit it is
>still religiously watch it every sunday
kek, who's the autist here?
>>71038952
>Not making him a support giant witha catapult and a movable defensive wall
>>71038949
You don't want to trap them, you want to force them into a rout so you can kill them as they retreat. Cornered rats, etc.
Another golden rule of medieval warfare is that if you have a twenty foot tall mythological creature on your side, you should arm and armor it for the fight.
>>71039015
They never even showed the battles in Rome try harder.
>>71038779
This was like one of least problems you should have had with episode. Number 1 being what the fuck is Sansa thinking?
>>71038794
Because he realized that she's an evil witch who manipulates everyone around her, including him and understands the way his father acted to ensure his house's future while he's dealing with whatever stark supporters are left after the war.
Oh, no wait that's in the books where characters make at least some sense.
Because she walks in on her sucking robert strong's big black cock.
>>71036703
Head back to English class please.
>>71039058
if you love something you must set it free
introduce
>Undead
>White Walkers
>Dire Wolves
>Dragons
>Giants
>Children of the Forrest
>Manage to kill off all the children, Giants, and all the direwolves but 2 (with 1 having been written out of the series since early in the first season) within a single season
I get the striking feeling D&D are gonna decide to go for Ghost and at least 1 of the dragons next season for shock value of course
>>71035595
You leave a gap and everyone makes a break for it. So rather than staying shoulder to should and fighting back they break formation and run so you can hunt them down as you like
>>71035264
Ramsay's strategy was similar to hannibal's in the punic wars. He knew the roman forces would charge in without restraint (because thats how the romans fought), so he set up an attack in which his inferior force would envelope and surround the superior force and force them all into a tight space (to limit manueverablity and strategization). +game of thrones seems like it straddles between medieval and roman technology (with the unsullied using spears and the lannisters employing greek fire). Honestly medieval weaponry was not any better than roman armaments in terms of effectiveness, there was just a large technological fallout for a long period of time.
>>71038330
What really ruined it for me was the pike wall surrounding Jon's army. How did they not see that shit coming?
>>71039040
Thinking about all the things they could have had Wun Wun do make me legitimately upset.
Have him sit on a distant hilltop shooting enormous arrows into the Bolton ranks.
Have him show up, armored and carrying a huge improvised club, right when Ramsay has committed his forces to the attack, spooking the shit out of the Bolton/Karstark troops because nobody has ever seen a goddamn giant.
>>71037942
this is a guess, but if the soldiers advanced too fast it might have broken formation and allowed the wildlings to break in. iirc phalanxes/spear walls are only as good as the discipline of their ranks. Since they're carrying spears, if the enemy tried to break through they'd lose precious time trying to switch weapons, by which time they'd already be dead. Therefore it'd be to their advantage to advance slowly because the Bolton's assumption was that they had the enemy surrounded and so could take their time methodically killing them
>>71039058
I could *maybe* see him coming to that realisation if they spent a good few scenes of him contemplating how much of a bitch she is... sadly it won't be happening next week (unless it's incredibly rushed) so that's another year of waiting for him to do something interesting ever since coming back to King's Landing.
>>71038779
She's thirsty for that queen of burgers.
>>71034898
>Am I the only one who thinks the tactics used by Jon Snow and Ramsey were atrociously bad
No.
The "battle" was fucking dumb as shit.
How hard is it to model a fake T.V. battle after one of the many historical battles of say, Alexander, or the Romans, or any of a gojillion European battles? It's not.
Lazy writing by "fuck you, they'll watch it anyway" Jews.
>>71035989
The men were all fresh recruits so once they realized they were trapped they all tried to get away and push to the centre of the army. Most of the Roman's were so tightly packed they couldn't actually lift their arms to fight.
Plus hannibal wanted to make the Roman's look shit rather than to just beat them
mereen battle>northbowl
naval battles are better
>camera pans away as he fights the dogs
I fucking hate when they do this, fuck how do we know he's not going to come back all disfigured and looking for revenge?
>>71038291
my friends are like that too and got mad when I told them Sansa is an idiot with no grasp of combat tactics and has less than 10 neurons working at the same time
everyone of them was like "but muh strong woman, playing the Game of thrones™ she is so badass" I was like bitch please in a real life scenario the commander would've executed her for borderline treason/withholding info
>>71039284
What fucking show were you watching?
Hes tied completely down hes not fighting the dogs.
Please tell me Lyanna's alright and she killed fiddy men
>>71039314
>she died offscreen
>>71034898
Armchair strategist who theorize on fantasy setting tactics are the fucking worst.
You are a fucking idiot. Kill yourself.
>Jon gasping for air
>Piles of bodies burying him
>Feet of people just pushing him down
>Trying desperately to breathe
Say what you want about the show but this shit got me claustrophobic as fuck!
>>71039346
I would (and most likely will) rage so goddamn hard.
>>71039346
How do you know ?
>>71037229
Too bad Ramsay didn't have a Big Guy with him to crash Baelish' plane with no survivors.
>>71038779
Havent you seen the way women vote? Merkel???
yeah its par for the course really
>this fucking fight
>better than all of the fight scenes from any movies in 2016
Why can't this show be a movie, it would be fucking epic.
>246 replies to this autistic bait
well done /tv/
>>71039040
>implying you even need a catapult with a giant
Just give him 50 to 100 lb rocks and get him to start tossing em.
A giant could probably skip a 50 lb rock further away than Bolton archers could reach
>dat feel when we'll never see WunWun on a dragon just for the pure spectacle of it
>>71039445
With TV you get ~10 hours of content a year. With a movie you'd 2.. maybe 3 hours a year. If you're lucky.
>>71039250
We basically saw the same thing happen in this episode. They were obviously headed towards the same fate as the Romans in the battle of Cannae if CIA didn't step in.
>>71039374
I think the biggest problem is that they traded sound tactics for drama, but the drama didn't really add anything. Even without the spoilers, it was pretty predictable what would happen. I did love some of the shots such as Jon in front of the Bolton cavalry or suffocating among the bodies though
>>71038828
this, If Hannibal didn't came up with the pincer, the Romans could just play defensive and destroy the carthagenians, If my memory serves me well even Roman generals and senators were awed by Hannibal's tactics at Cannae
>>71039374
I think most people are complaining about Wun Wuns lack of weapon and that is a legitimate grievance
>>71039426
>cia on the same side as the big guy
was this the only counter to ramsay's 6000 good men?
