what does /tv/ think?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMqcLUqYqrs
USA is the greatest country in the world if you arent poor.
This is the cringiest shit I've ever seen. Can someone please explain to my why, though?
>>70378720
Pretty good show, i don't get upset if fiction goes against my political views.
>>70378720
Typical Sorkin populist outrage bullshit. Like we live in a world where one carefully constructed speech will perfectly describe our problems and prompt everyone to fix it. Every side of a debate has these kinds of self-indulgent speeches.
Then which is?
Still better than El Salvador
>>70378784
It's obviously the writer putting his opinion through the characters mouth and expecting you to take it at face value.
>>70378964
and Chile, Venezuela, Egypt, Greece, the Philippines, India, 95% of the middle east...
I thought it was pretty awesome actually. Good actor to say it too.
>>70378990
The whole show is this. Great I dropped it
>Americucks still getting triggered over this four years later
I honestly can't think of a country I'd rather be born into as a part of the lower to middle class. Maybe Switzerland? Still seems like there's greater opportunity in the US.
>>70379455
>He fell for the bootstraps meme
laughingbillionaires.png
>>70379509
>he doesn't think memes are reality
Fuck off Sorkin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOhDFCcmgvY
>>70378720
Too bad that show pasta is just as shit when it was said. If America isn't the greatest who is? We produce the most technologies, our military literally dwarfs the entire worlds combined and our culture invades every single country on Earth. Our impact on mankind vastly overshadows every empire b4 us.
>>70379455
At least in other western countries normal people have a chance to make change through democracy. Our current political system is rigged so that the only opinions that matter are those of wealthy industrialists. Saying the U.S. is a plutocracy is not an exaggeration.
>>70379599
This may be true on the national level, and even then not wholly, but a huge amount of legislation that actually affects people happens on the state and local levels, and those are really easy for citizens to influence. Except Illinois, but that's why it's such a shithole. And, honestly, what other countries are so unaffected by corporate interests?
>>70379599
What countries would that be? Europe is in such deep shit atm both economically and dealing with a constant deluge of terrorism, rapidly rising crime rates and the supposedly unrelated mass immigration. Canada doesn't seem like it but they have a LOT of problems. Mexico and below is a joke.
>>70379526
>Doesn't actually address anything brought up in the clip
>"muh god muh guns muh freedoms Murcia strong! Checkmate sorkin"
Conservative "logic"
>>70379573
Is influence and innovation really a measure of greatness? What about quality of life/where to be born index/happiness index? From the perspective of normal people I think those are the best metrics for determining greatness. People living in Switzerland and Norway reap the benefits of our influence/innovation and they don't have to deal with the shit that comes with living here giving them a better quality of life. Seems like we're the ones getting cucked.
![1464937120303[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/sBPWPOF.jpg "1464937120303[1].jpg")
Only free countries may post in this thread.
NOT SO FAST EUROPEANS
>>70379526
Crowder is an idiot. Possibly the only alt right cuck that is dumber than Milo
>>70379573
This, there's no contest. To say there's room for improvement, or that some places do some things in a preferable manner is true, but no other country even comes within throwing distance of the US overall.
I don't even believe in "government", but there's no other gang I'd rather to be oppressed by.
>>70378784
pontification always comes of as cringey self-righteous bullshit in film. Monologues trying to make a moral/ethical point don't work well in film. can anyone name one (other than braveheart, ty based mel)? It's better left for literature, or a least let a narrator do it.
I hated this show, but this little speech was the only good part.
>anymore
Was it ever at some point?
>>70379670
>Canada doesn't seem like it but they have a LOT of problems.
They have a dumbass pothead prime minister that unironically uses the phrase "it's 2016" to hire cabinet-members based on their genitals rather than merit.
>>70379747
Define quality of life. It's not a simple term.
I just watched the episode where the Poo in loo has to prove himself to group of online trolls to infiltrate their forum. Much wew lads, much wew.
>>70378720
>>70379696
>Doesn't actually address anything brought up in the clip
He does.
Also
>implying religion, guns and especially freedom aren't great
Faggot.
What constitutes a great nation? Having "free" healthcare?
>>70379747
>People living in Switzerland and Norway reap the benefits of our influence/innovation and they don't have to deal with the shit that comes with living here giving them a better quality of life.
So basically they are parasites that couldn't exist the way they do if not for America's greatness?
Sounds about right.
>>70379853
No minorities
>>70379573
This.
The only reason many countries can afford to have the systems they do is because America shoulders the military and technological burden of being the greatest.
Enjoy living in Pax Americana while using our technology, you ungrateful cucks.
![USS_Nimitz_(CVN-68)[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ZfX07t0.jpg "USS_Nimitz_(CVN-68)[1].jpg")
>>70379853
Whether or not you have these.
>>70379885
>tfw you do all of the medical innovation, and your people still have to pay for it because other country's governments fix prices
LOL DUDE SO DEEP AMERICA ISN'T REALLY THAT GREAT
literally high school tier
>>70379842
>Be American
>Go to church because I still literally believe in angels and Noah's ark
>Get shot by a schizophrenic who was free to buy a gun with no background check
>Such is the price of freedom ;_;
Isn't this the same show where the supposedly level-headed protagonist unironically refers to the Tea Party as "the American Taliban"?
Which is hilarious, because Sorkin probably sucks the dick of hate-groups like Black Lives Matter and the ever so tolerant Trump-protestors who are FAR MORE like Al-Queda than the Tea Party could ever even remotely come close to being.
>>70379526
>they cant even own handguns
wew
Does he get to own a rocket launcher? Well you're not totally free lad
>>70379747
Those indexes are super silly and genuinely lame. Is it really surprising a country with a fraction of Americas population would be more happy? Even then the indexes are so poorly explained its absurd. All those country rankings are absurd. I saw them put a 10 on something for military for russia. LOL. Russia's copters and tanks are decades old and largely have no combat experience! while the Abrams is OP as fuck compared to any tank known to exist.
I'm honestly not even a patriot, I generally don't give a fuck, but without America being world police the world would be a far shittier place. Sure we are corrupt as fuck, orchestrate wars and all that shady shit I have no doubt. But could you imagine Russia or China being top dog instead? Holy fuck, fuck that world.
>>70378784
One reason is because if anyone said that in real life, everyone wouldn't sit in silence with their minds blown. Their would be tons of disagreements and people challenging him.
how are you still getting triggered by this old vid
they're right btw
>>70379853
According to most Eurotrash, yeah.
>"I didn't have to pay for this tube of Hemroid Cream! Usually it would have cost upwards of £5.60! And all I had to do was give half my paycheck to the government! Fucking Amerifats will never have it this good!"
>>70379889
Good point. Spending billions per year in order to maintain aircraft carriers that are increasingly irrelevant is a pretty good indication your nation isn't a great one.
>>70379950
I don't think any one other country even could step up to do what the US currently does. The amount of money you have to funnel in to the military to accomplish it is ludicrous.
>>70380020
Is that Ernie from Sesame street?
![1464936586077[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/KIkHpGP.jpg "1464936586077[1].jpg")
>>70379979
[COMMENT HIDDEN IN RESPONSE TO THE EUROPEAN HATE SPEECH CENSORSHIP ACT]
>>70379696
>>Doesn't actually address anything brought up in the clip
He literally addresses all of them
>>70378720
This is some serious cringe.
>we lead the world in only three things
haha wut
I mean this has to be by the far the biggest issue with his whole spiel.
>>70379983
Oh quite, but thats not what I meant. I meant that if we weren't involving ourselves in all the conflicts of the world, others would and itd turn out far worst then it has. A necessary evil, at least for the world we currently live in. Obviously its not ideal but if America wasn't always up in the Middle Easts business I have no doubt Russia would be exploiting it blatantly.
>>70380157
Sure, I'm just pointing out that it would be pretty fractured.
>>70378720
>mfw some bitch that posts Bernie Sanders memes like twice a day posted this on Kikebook
>>70380073
He doesn't though. Not if you're paying attention. He ignores or dismisses the specific points raised and immediately pivots to "America good because freedom."
>>70380157
>if America wasn't always up in the Middle Easts business I have no doubt Russia would be exploiting it blatantly.
The only reason they aren't is because the US intervened, the Mujaheddin didn't arm and train themselves.
>>70380213
One of the main points of the video is that our freedom isn't special. Addressing that isn't ignoring points. Nor is valuing that freedom over other statistics.
>>70379929
>Does he get to own a rocket launcher? Well you're not totally free lad
You actually can. There's a lot of paperwork and some fees and finding a legal import might be tough, but you can own one if you really want to.
>>70378720
People disagree with this? I thought it was spot on. The US is a fucking joke.
>>70380198
Jesus Christ.
>current young people are the worst generation in America
>too young to be the ones who fucked the country up in the first place
Goddamn it why are babyboomers so retarded? YOU were the businessmen and politicians who were in power. YOU got us into the mess we're in today. Young people are just trying to scrape by on what they have.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vahmSjnpXgg&t=5m33s
Did Sorkin literally plagiarize himself?
>>70380264
Good Argument Two Thumbs Up
>>70380264
You should survive on your countries inventions only.
>>70379526
>higher taxes means you're less free
Immediately stopped this libertarian bullshit. I have so many more opportunities to be successful as a Canadian than my American friends do.
>>70380241
America's "freedom" isn't special. Most of the world still has the same freedoms, they just have common sense restrictions in place to make sure they don't have bi-weekly mass shootings. He dismisses 90% of the points raised solely because it doesn't fit with his insane right-wing idea of what the word freedom means.
>>70380354
I dare you to prove this statement's validity.
>>70380354
Go on...
>>70380362
>america isn't freer than other countries, it's just that other countries restrict freedom
Do you hear yourself?
>>70380362
>"common sense"
When's the new hate speech laws going to take effect?
>>70380331
>survive on your countries
LOL
>>70380330 (You)
Burgerstan here anyway.
>>70380393
Good Argument Three Thumbs Up
>>70380393
Yeah... go ahead. Try to live only on things invented where you live.
Better toss that computer out the window lad
>>70380362
lol
>>70380410
#FeelTheBern
#FreeWeed
>>70380421
The computer was literally made in MA which is where I'm sitting right now. The only thing MIT does these days is make iPhone apps.
>>70380362
The only thing good about this shitty country anymore are the freedoms we still have. Many countries in South America do have similar freedoms, but political instability has made them transient. Really the old world is as decrepit and corrupt as it was when we arrived in the new, but the new has rotted almost to its core since that time.
If we ever have 'common sense' anything here I will fucking move to the jungle countries in the south and never look back.
>>70380448
>living on the east coast
Sorry, can't hear you from up here Tiny Tim
>>70380453
I also enjoy having the most influence on world culture, the most powerful military, the greatest buying power, and the most medical innovation in history, but yeah, the freedom is good too.
>>70380251
What about a land mine?
>>70380448
>computer was literally made in MA
You do know that a modern computer is made up of many different components each of which were invented in a different place, right?
>>70379573
>our military literally dwarfs the entire worlds combined
What are basing this off of? China's soldiers greatly outnumber the US.
>>70380354
that's why americans dominate the wealthiest people list right? and have a higher gdp per capita right? hell, even the retarded stepchild mexico has someone in the top 10 richest list, where are you? many more opportunities my ass. that's why the U.S. also dominates top university lists right? that's why america has more universities in the top 10 than you have in the top 100 right? Fuck off you jealous cuck. I hope you get shot in the leg and die waiting for your free treatment.
>>70380525
>Number of soldiers is relevant in modern warfare
>>70380421
Better toss out that car since wheels weren't invented in America.
Better toss out that house because houses weren't invented in America.
Better toss out that food because food wasn't invented in America.
Better toss out that language because language wasn't invented in America.
Better toss yourself in the trash because white man wasn't invented in America.
>>70380474
Where do you live? Seattle? How do you hold your head up with these glasses on?
But honestly MA is just as much of a joke as whatever kike state you live in. Our sales tax is off the charts and it takes 2 years to fill in a pot hole.
Revolutionary War 2 when?
>>70380514
Yeah yeah but the one developed for solving algorithms or whatever was made at MIT.
>>70380453
You're free to move to Somalia right now my friend. They have all the freedom in the world over there I'm sure it's going great.
>>70380525
Don't be obtuse you imbecile
>>70380525
Spending, although he's exaggerating. We spend more than the next ten countries combined.
>>70380534
>MUH GDP!
Every single time.
America's GDP is a point of shame, not something to brag about.
>>70380534
Having the richest individuals doesn't mean quite what you think it does. Mexico's richest are because their country is an oligarchy run by monopolies.
>>70379641
You're right about citizen influence at the state/local level, but you're underplaying the role of federal legislature. When you say state/local legislation "actually affects people" you're implying the federal government doesn't actually affect us.
When a local law is changed you see the effect immediately. Federal legislation doesn't have the same instantaneous impact, but the effects do come and they're often much deeper to the everyday experience.
The Jews meme actually has a grain of truth to it. A handful of corporations control the media, a handful control food production, a handful control the MIC, a handful control all the other shit we buy, etc... Only a few corporation produce most of what we experience in everyday life from what we eat to our culture. This is a result of the system they set up.
In any event that we want to change it, we can't. We're not going to have a greater variety in mainstream media because antitrust laws practically don't exist. 75% of Americans want labels on foods that contain gmos. Not going to happen. Most Americans want more money in their paychecks. Reduction of the military industrial complex is not going to happen. We're not going to see a change in the banking system. We can't change anything significant at the federal level unless it's in concurrence with the desires of the owners of the corporations.
>even then not wholly
It absolutely is 100%. The opinions of everyday people do not matter at all.
http://journals.cambridge.org/download.php?file=%2FPPS%2FPPS12_03%2FS1537592714001595a.pdf&code=a050b90495658592892e95a86818a91c
>>70379670
All of western Europe has democracy to a greater degree than the U.S.
>>70380552
Did you just completely ignore the first half of his post? Are you just dumb? Both?
>>70380560
We're also in charge of protecting probably 60 countries too.
>>70380497
>world culture
doesn't exist
>most powerful military
sucking us dry, threatening our freedom.
>greatest buying power
locally wages are depressing for the working class, but relatively low taxes are nice.
>medical innovation
99% of us will never see.
>>70380525
>one of the largests armies in the world
>get literally cucked by a small asian country.
>do nothing but cry to the allies about how much help you need to stop the evil jap men from raping your women and using your men for human experiments
china has no men
>come to /tv/ and talk about American movies, American TV shows on a site made by an American
>>70378964
Agreed. It's a fucking shithole. I hate it.
>>70380650
You're incredibly wrong about world culture.
I'd be fine with cutting military, but it's an exaggeration to say it's sucking us dry.
Our working class still has greater buying power than most of Europe's upper middle class.
lol you're so fucking wrong here
>>70380662
>all created by American liberals
>>70380534
>>70380596
gdp PER CAPITA you mongoloids
if you have a low gdp per capita and you have a lot of rich people, there's probably some exploitation going on.
if you have a high gdp per capita and you have a lot of rich people with a country as big as the US, it's probably a pretty damn nice place to live.
>>70380604
That link is really only saying that congress is more likely to listen to special interests than the masses, but it's not always the case, and it's worth noting that special interests aren't just wealthy individuals. They're often groups representing issues that they think are important.
>>70378720
>boomer whining
remember the part where the dumb millenial girl ends up getting a job at the newsroom because she's so inspired by him.
>>70380726
Soooo? what do you mean, idk what you're arguing with me about
>>70379573
Is that why no one has any work rights and everyone is essentially living in poverty? Yeah nah I'd rather not live there thanks.
>>70380740
Why would we be ashamed? The only places above us are small countries whose economy is based on either oil or banking.
>>70380697
Believing in a global culture is literally taking the goy pill. There are cultures that involve people in different countries, but a transformers movie being seen in beijing does not make our culture the same as theirs.
The majority of medical expenditures in America go to pharmaceuticals now that's a fact.
America has the same problem that 19th century Europe had. The increasing majority of working class people are living in cities and their purchasing power is depressed by local inflationary costs associated with daily living and high tax rates. We are trending towards meeting the upper middle class in Europe where there is no equivalent for the rural american small land owner, but if trends continue as they are we will be just like them before the century is out.
Like I said all of the ails of civilization are justified by our continued freedom, but if they take those away from us there's no reason not to flee into the frontier. Its what our ancestors did.
>>70380764
People disparage that speech as liberal mumbo jumbo but are more than happy to reap the benefits of liberal thinking
>>70380659
>one of the largest armies in the world
>one of the largest
>one of
>>70379814
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8HdOHrc3OQ
>>70380793
Non sequitur
>>70380828
It is, but I don't care.
>>70380789
Man, if you don't think that the entire world is influenced by what America likes in its media, I don't know what to tell you.
The reason we spend so much on pharmaceuticals is because we do all the innovation, and other countries price fix. We're picking up their tab.
And we may or may not be headed towards the same problems as Europe 200 years ago. That's hard to prove, but even if we're headed there, we aren't there yet, and we're better than the alternatives by far.
>>70379826
Wikipedia: Quality of life (QOL) is the general well-being of individuals and societies, outlining negative and positive features of life. It observes life satisfaction, including everything from physical health, family, education, employment, wealth, religious beliefs, finance and the environment.
>>70379860
Still you're using this definition of greatness as if power is the ultimate metric of greatness. For the ordinary American, the power of this country is only as significant as how much it improves our lives. All the power that goes beyond that is meaningless to you and me. Standard of living, on the other hand, affects us every day.
>>70379950
>Is it really surprising a country with a fraction of Americas population would be more happy?
Why does happiness have to decline with an increase in population? Really, explain that to me.
>All those country rankings are absurd. I saw them put a 10 on something
I don't what that is, but the ranking systems I've looked at seemed pretty reasonable.
>>70379929
>Oym superior yuropoyon. Way downt nay gunz. Itz comploytley irrational to think thatya govment will tun onya.
>>70380793
I could live without the latest capeshit movie, idk about you tho
>>70380883
That definition is way too broad to definitively prove anything with. How do you plan to prove that any other country has a greater quality of life than the US?
>>70380862
When it comes to psychotropic drugs our pharmaceutical industry has just been reinventing the wheel for thirty years to benefit from brand monopolies. The truly innovative medical breakthroughs are consistently out of reach for the general public, for decades usually.
The conversation appears to be about the fate and legacy of the united states, not its immediate condition isolated from past and future context, so while I have already agreed that it is the best of all options for myself right now I think your insistence on reiterating it is out of place ITT.
>>70380534
>I hope you get shot in the leg and die waiting for treatment.
Fixed for Murrica
>>70380915
We're still inventing, no exaggeration, 95% of all major drugs.
And the thread is all about whether or not America is the greatest country in the world right now.
>>70380744
No it's not
"The government caters to the affluent few and organized interest groups, the researchers find, while the average citizen's influence on policy is 'near zero.'"
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/princeton-scholar-demise-of-democracy-america-tpm-interview
ITT: Butthurt foreigners
>>70380802
well I was trying to be fair. In ww2, when they were slaughtered, I believe a few other countries had bigger armies
>>70380929
This doesn't make sense because hospital emergency wait times in the US are actually among one of the best in the world
I don't even really know what Europeans have to feel proud of?
What have they contributed really in the last 50 years?
I also think it's funny that they define themselves as Europeans now instead of by their country because it'd be way less relevant if they couldn't take credit for other nations advancements
>>70380950
lol aight i disagree about what this thread is about, but we've made our points so I suppose it can end amicably here.
>It's a poorfag rednecks defending gross income inequality and regressive tax structures episode
It's remarkable how brainwashed the low-income classes are to support shit that does nothing but detriment them, all in pursuit of some archaic ideal of 'freedom', completely ignoring contemporary social and economic beliefs.
I agree with what the guy says but the delivery is so cringe worthy, so cheaply emotional, so "American" that it makes me feel sick.
>>70380988
Aaron sorkin is a hack.
>>70380970
Until they find out that you don't have any money and dump you back on the street.
>>70380988
It would be fine if it just ended when he says, "I don't know what the fuck you're talking about!" but he has to go and get all sappy.
I wonder what percentage of the faggots in this thread are Muslims and what percentage are holier-than-thou leftists.
>>70380955
>resorting to tldrs of academic papers
come on m8
>narrow pro-change majorities of the public got the policy changes they wanted
only about 30 percent of the time
>with 80 percent of the public favoring a policy change, got that change only about 43 percent of the time
So yeah, I'll absolutely grant that the public has less impact than they should on Congress, their opinion does matter. A 13% increase is not near zero.
Baby boomer complains about the nation being ruined by baby boomers while at the same time still espousing the Baby boomer ideals that ruined the nation in the first place, and pretend it's everyone else's fault.
>>70381024
Nope, that's illegal.
>>70380985
Well to be fair I've never in my entire life met a masculine white male Democrat voter.
So I'll steer clear of that shit.
In fact as a STEM degree holding white dude I don't even know which Democrat policies even would benefit me
>>70380985
Can you explain to me what actually is bad about income inequality?
>>70380985
That's the issue with the American Dream. Everyone thinks they're going to be rich someday.
>>70380971
>I don't even really know what Europeans have to feel proud of?
You can't possibly be this retarded
If those of you who shit on America weren't the cowards you are, they'd leave and go to one of the countries you say is so much better. There's nothing keeping you here.
>>70381074
Isn't the best part of the American Dream that everyone can be?
>>70381041
I'd like to know about the rate that policy changes which the overwhelming majority do not want get turned down.
I would bet that's near zero.
>>70381085
I guess I am.
Care to give me some stuff your country has done in the last 50 years.
We landed on the moon 47 years ago
>>70381024
you literally can not be denied treatment in any emergency situation.
>>70379526
This guy is retarded as fuck. He uses the pasts of countries as "evidence" of not being free. He also makes pretty unstated accusations, including saying sharia law is a thing in Europe, which it definitely isn't.
I like how he doesn't discuss Australia, a country that is more free market, has better freedom of speech and more developed civil rights for their citizens.
>>70381085
Europeans have contributed nothing valuable to society since Thatcher.
>>70378720
>/tv/
>>70381087
>there's nothing that's keeping you here
To be fair that's not true. America takes a pound of flesh from anybody who wants to renounce.
We mercantilism now.
>>70381115
>I guess I am.
Well, I guess that settles that. Americans truly are as retarded as people say.
>>70381097
It just notes how likely things are to be passed based on their support by various groups it defines, which you'd know if you read it you fucking loser.
>>70381127
Australia doesn't have the right to bear arms and imposes "hate speech" laws. Nice try.
>>70381147
Why renounce? Why not just... you know... move and become a citizen elsewhere.
No reason to fedora tip and renounce old citizenship
>>70381147
You don't have to renounce citizenship to leave
>>70380958
The Americans seem more butthurt tbqh, Im just enjoying the show.
>>70381041
>come on m8
It's a summation of the academic paper I linked in my previous post. Being that you didn't understand the conclusions of the paper itself I thought you needed the babby version.
>A 13% increase is not near zero
The near zero quote is from Martin Gilens, the guy that did the study. You're not telling me that I'm wrong, you're saying he's wrong.It's alright man, just admit you're btfo so we can move on.
>>70378964
Aids is better than El Salvador.
>>70381171
Well thanks for that list I asked for, I appreciate all those contributions your nation has contributed.
Truly a remarkable place
>>70378720
Then which is?
>>70380971
Im from Ireland and we focus way more on our national identity than just being called "European"
>>70381174
lol I know that study doesn't address the thing I'd like to know. My desire was tangential to the paper's topic. Are you autistic?
>>70381191
Because the federal government takes income tax from any earnings you make abroad without accounting for how much you pay over there, so if your income tax rate is 30% in america and 40 percent in country by, your effective tax rate is 70%.
America is the only country besides Eritrea that does that by the way.
>>70381220
>a piece of hyperbole by an academic attempting to sum up his findings is the same as what is actually published
I like how you didn't actually address the numbers I brought up.
>>70381191
Because there are countries that don't allow dual citizenships.
>>70381191
taxes.
Sound bite bullshit, Sorkin fluff. Needs more Munn's box.
>>70381252
Only Singapore, Austria, India, and Saudi Arabia. And why would you want to live there?
>>70381147
2350 isn't really very much. It's a one-time fee! But anyways, who cares? You can always just leave.
>>70381204
Nah
>>70381285
That's their processing fee. They also have a labyrinthine tax assessment policy that will evaluate all of the capital owned and excise a 5 year tax as a lump sum according to your age bracket before you get to leave. If you own a car and a house, regardless of whether they have been sold, the federal government assesses their value, redefines them as income, and takes a tax out.
Its fucking hard to leave the United States.
>>70381283
Your list is too short, friend. Perhaps you should have looked further than the info box google provided.
>>70381246
You are wildly misinformed about how the USA taxes foreign earnings. You are credited the taxes you pay to a foreign country. So if you work in Britain and end up paying 30% and your marginal rate here is 35%, you would only pay the 5% to the USA.
>>70381342
Meh, just move somewhere that doesn't extradite.
>>70381184
I don't base freedom whether I can shoot a gun or not. I consider market freedom, the freedom to not be afraid of our own government forces, and educational freedom to be more important.
>>70381342
>>70381285
tax bracket**** not age bracket.
>>70381061
If you're talking about inherently evil then no, it'd be pretty hard for me to argue they're 'bad'. The problem with income inequality is that things are no where near as good as they could be, in terms of pretty much everything from employment to national savings to public debt, having money tied up in the assets of the extremely rich instead of moving through the economy generating consumption and more money for everyone else.
The way that taxation is structured now means the wealthy pay larger amounts that they barely need and the poor pay smaller amounts that they desperately need, where 'need' is a measure quantified by incorporating consumption patterns and priority studies with behavioural psychology theory and experimental data. Basically the $300 that the poor man pays for tax he needed to replace the starter motor in the car he uses to get to work. The $30,000 the rich man pays for tax was going to buy all the kids bungalows on the Carribean holiday.
But the resistance to changing these ideas goes deeper than just misunderstanding and being persuaded by "SOCIALISM FUUUCK OMG" attitudes amongst rich industrialists - there is deeply engrained individualism in the national identity of the US, so much so that the very thought of redistributing wealth with more progressive taxes is literally repulsive, even though it would result in a net benefit to everyone as a whole.
>>70381355
>You are credited the taxes you pay to a foreign country.
That's a fucking lie.
>>70381356
Hence the problem with our military and its ability to impose force around the world. Few countries worth moving to do not extradite to the United States anymore.
>>70381246
That seems really hard to believe.
So moving anywhere in the world from America ends up in a tax increase as you pay American taxes as well as X taxes?
Why would expatriates exist at all? Or people that move countries for work?
That doesn't sound right mate, but I'm not familiar on the subject.
But it sounds ludicrous.
>>70381390
So to conclude, income inequality is not an inherent evil, and you believe that taxation should be based on the subjective evaluation of "need."
>>70381390
Don't use the word 'progressive'
It just outs you as a faggot.
Aaron Sorkin is welcome to fuck off to Cuba.
>>70381453
"Prograssive Tax Base" is a technical term you massively uneducated faggot
>>70381392
I don't know how you are so wrong and yet have convinced yourself that you are so right.
https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc856.html
>the freedom to not be afraid of our own government forces
you must be white
>>70381453
[this post deemed problematic]
>>70381475
I actually have a BS in Econ.
We have progressive tax rate system.
But using the term progressive is so fucking cringe.
>>70379918
But this is LITERALLY true
it's LITERALLY the price of freedom, and i'm not even american
i'd rather get shot than have this
https://twitter.com/greaterglasgpol/status/715867273261662208
>>70381492
Anyone else is a citizen merely by technicality.
>>70381230
Here's a hint, fatty. What country has the greatest literature on Earth? I'll give you as much time as you need.
>>70381441
Well, it helps keep your head attached to your body.
if you think you're free, try walking into a deli and urinating on the cheese
>>70381486
>>70381416
Thank you for this.
>>70381416
It is ludicrous. You can read the summary here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expatriation_tax#United_States
Its labyrinthine and I guarantee it will spawn dozens of replies, but key points:
>The HEART Act, passed on 17 June 2008, created the new Section 877A, which imposed a substantially different expatriation tax from that of the earlier Section 877.[8] The new expatriation tax law, effective for calendar year 2009, defines "covered expatriates" as expatriates who have a net worth of $2 million, or a 5-year average income tax liability exceeding $139,000, to be adjusted for inflation, or who have not filed an IRS Form 8854
TL;DR if they determine your tax liability over the last 5 years to have been $139,000 or above, they can take a tax out of capital you 'own' in the United States and would like to leave with.
They include a litany of things as income in these considerations which normally are not, such as potential pay outs from IRA or pension funds, property which has been used for business purposes (the car you drive to work). Virtually anything that is normally a write off goes towards determining if your average liability exceeds the amount that triggers a capital excision.
>>70381520
That's assuming it was the inequality that was the problem, and not the fact that the masses were literally starving.
>>70381392
>>70381355
you're both wrong. you're don't pay both full taxes, but you're not credit on a percent-for-percent basis either. the tax paid to the foreign country would be treated as a deduction.
t. tax evader.
>>70381441
Well when the income inequality is often the result of now-illegal or previously unpunished financial misconduct and corrupt, opaque transfer processes, the perpetuation and maitenance of which is costing the entire economy billions of dollars of lost income every year - yeah, I guess I could argue it's inherently evil.
>>70381250
Bro, these are the conclusions Gilens reached. According to him the numbers you posted are inconsequential.
Here, I'll even cite some quotes from the paper itself.
"The estimated impact of average citizens’ preferences drops precipitously, to a non-significant, near-zero level."
"When the preferences of economic elites and the stands of organized interest groups are controlled for, the preferences of the average American appear to have only a minuscule, near-zero, statistically non-significant impact upon public policy."
"When the alignments of business-oriented and mass-based interest groups are included separately in a multivariate model, average citizens’ preferences continue to have essentially zero estimated impact upon policy change, while economic elites are still estimated to have a very large, positive, independent impact. "
"We know that interest groups and policy makers themselves often devote considerable effort to shaping opinion. If they are successful, this might help explain the high correlation wefind between elite and mass preferences. But it cannot have greatly inflated our estimate of average citizens’ influence on policy making, which is near zero."
NOTE: the preferences of the average American appear to have only a minuscule, near-zero, statistically non-significant impact upon public policy.
I'm just reading you the conclusion of the study, pal. If you choose to deny it, fine, but don't try to claim that Gillens' study fits your claim.
>>70381573
>when it's based on other evil things it's evil
ok
>>70381368
They literally just passed a law in the European union that bans hate speach. The market place of ideas is important even if that means stupid people having opinions.
Also, having the right to own a gun comes from the principle of not being afraid of your government.
Also, educational freedom means you can choose to be educated or not, and I think that is literally the only thing the sate should handle because it evens the playfield.
>>70381552
That's just for people who renounce citizenship. You can be an expat and earn foreign income without being double taxed, which is what that poster was talking about.
>>70381552
Yeah someone maybe you posted that they value your car etc already.
But that's a pretty steep step from that to paying double tax to two countries
>>70381486
>https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc856.html
> Qualified foreign taxes do not include: taxas refundable to you
In your original scenario, if my marginal tax rate in the US was 35 percent and my tax rate in my adopted country is 30%, then I only have to pay 5% to the U.S. Ignoring the injustice of paying an income tax to a country you did not earn the money in, if half of my 30% was refunded to me by my adopted country then I would the U.S. government 20%. Does it seem just to pay 20% of the income you earn outside the United States to the United States?
>>70381571
It is not a deduction. It is a credit. It is a dollar for solar elimination of US tax liability.
>>70381368
You have none of these freedoms, except "market freedom", which is, for you anyways, the freedom of choosing between different products to buy.
That's it, and it's obviously more important than civil liberties right? ;^)
>>70378720
go to sleep australia. its past your beddy bye time, skippy
>>70381511
That's cool man so do I, it's a progressive tax base in name and original intention alone, when adjusted to account for real household wealth, consumption patterns and income effects it becones clear the tax base behaves regressively in practice.
I'm sorry faggots have ruined a perfectly cromulent word like 'progressive'.
>>70381640
Which civil liberties are we lacking?
>>70381597
>>70381594
Furthermore, that guy's link makes it clear that they do not recognize taxes you paid to a foreign government as actually excised if you receive any sort of social security equivalent reimbursement for them. I.E. if you go on the dole in the UK the U.S. taxes you on that dole pay out.
If you were a citizen of pretty much any other country you wouldn't have to worry about this. Irish people don't have to pay income on their american earnings to the Irish government.
>>70381621
If half of your 30% was refunded to you for some reason then you only have paid 15% in foreign taxes and would only get a credit of 15%. But in no scenario would you pay a tax rate above your US rate.
>>70381516
Within the last 50 years? That's really up for argument.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky_MlTQOb40
>>70381573
>evil
I agree with your argument, but please don't use this term. It's a bullshit word that means something I don't like.
Also it makes you seem uneducated which is a shame considering how cogent and well written your argument is.
>>70381671
My larger point is that you shouldn't be paying anything on what you earn while living abroad to uncle sam, REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>70381697
>*tips*
>America is the greatest country to live in in the world
honestly, not memeing here, but do the Americans really believe this?
>>70381250
BTFO cucked cucked cucked
Damn dude I sure showed you. Another tally on the board for me.
>>70381717
Yes
>>70381663
In the UK? You can not express your opinion freely. But why am I telling you this? You literally have seats in the House of Lords, your parliament, that are based on inheritance.
You also, but that's a problem of all developed countries, have very little influence in the macro-politics of your country.
So if I vote for Hillary will we become closer to achieving Sorkins dream world?
>>70381585
>when it's based on other evil and illegal things, regulated and operated by public officials in the government with vested interests in maintaining the unfair, 'evil' advantage to lobbyists - it's somehow not evil
ok
>>70381732
Hm, I wasn't actually a part of this thread and thought you were saying the US was lacking civil liberties.
>>70381717
They literally get little children to "pledge allegiance" to the flag.
Of course they do.
>>70381703
Your original point was that you got double taxed, which is obviously wrong. Regardless, whether or not it's right is up for speculation, but who really cares? Taxes shouldn't be a moral issue. They should be a revenue issue.
>>70381732
House of lords has been responsible on a few occasions for protecting their civil liberties and their national sovereignty desu
>>70381310
It's okay anon, I believe you.
Damn Harry got learned.
>>70381745
Right, exactly. You're arguing that those are the things that are wrong and bad for a society, but you don't have any actual critiques on disparate income levels. There's nothing inherently wrong with one group making significantly more money than another.
>>70381697
I was only using that retarded subjective term in response to the other guys prompt to incorporate it with income inequality for some reason, sorry buddy.
>>70381716
Go drink some more of uncle Jim's Kool Aid, faggot.
>>70381717
I like where I am. I wish we had less niggers and shit here.
I'll thank the Democrats for literally shipping them to Minnesota. Good job guys!
>>70378720
Really makes you think
>>70378720
>what does /tv/ think?
Conservatives will bury their head in the sand and scream about how America is god's gift to the world, nothing is wrong, we can't do any better than we are currently doing, don't worry about wages corporations will fix it because they have your best interest in mind, and it's perfectly acceptable to let the top w/e % fuck everyone in the ass because maybe you'll get a crumb off of their table someday and afford to buy that house your parents got when they were 22 and flipping burgers.
However dumbshit liberals will link smug shitty videos like this, pat themselves on the back for being so clever and insightful and then do jack shit because they got their feel-good "i'm better than you" mental masturbation out of the way. Maybe they'll go to a trump event and yell incoherent shit while thinking that they are fighting the good fight. Modern liberals are obsessed with identity politics, are constantly suffering from cognitive dissonance, and couldn't be bothered to even try to come up with a solution for a problem outside of "the government will do x,y,z for us, don't worry!"
>hurr both sides are stupid I am so clever for pointing that out
No, I'm just so tired
>>70381752
>pride in your country is something flabbergasting to foreigners
>>70378720
Wow, was this all ad-libbed?
>>70381692
No, the answer would remain the same, actually.
>>70381804
You're obviously wrong about conservatives when the Republican Nominee's slogan is MAGA.
>>70381758
>they should be a revenue issue
How is what I do outside the united states a revenue issue for the US government, unless I am chattel property of the U.S. Government? This is where renunciation becomes necessary to move away, and the exorbitant fees attached to renunciation become a negative incentive for people who others have said 'are free to leave if they want to'.
I believe taxes are a moral issue because our country is ostensibly anyway still founded on enlightenment principles, where consent of the governed to be ruled by a government that is acting in the people's best interest (not the government or its treasury) is necessary to justify an excision of wealth in the first place.
>>70381816
Nah.
>>70378720
Why is Sorkin so fucking awful?
ITT superpowers only
>>70378720
Wow. Opened my eyes.
I'm now #ShillingForHillary
>>70381810
They're afraid of anything like nationalism since WWII. They haven't figured out how to do it in moderation.
>>70379967
On which point?
What's he talking about
America is already Great
Obama and Hillary said so
>>70381838
Really made me think.
I am now #FrenchToast.
>>70381821
You did consent. At some point someone voted to tax fostering earnings. And you voted for those people. Ta-da!
![martian-gallery11-gallery-image[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/8sY9wZ5.jpg "martian-gallery11-gallery-image[1].jpg")
>>70378720
Which is why we're slated to send men to Mars in within 15 years. Where's your country in comparison?
>>70381837
I don't think chinamen are allowed to post on here
>>70381810
The pledge of allegiance has its roots in the loyalty oaths that every southern soldier had to swear in order to regain his god-given rights lmao
>>70381860
Applying to be on our space mission
>>70381859
Lol am I in 3rd grade again? This is not what the founders had in mind when they said 'consent'.
Still makes taxes a moral or at least an epistemological issue though.
>>70379573
that's funny because i thought half of america was collectively shitting its pants over some assholes in the middle east with 30 year old russian equipment
America is probably a bad place to live in now, and it's going down the shitter too. It's also undoubtedly been a bad influence on geopolitics and disastrous for most of the world that America has been in the position of the sole superpower for the last 25 years.
However, their Constitution is still enviable and some of the principles upon which the USA are based are admirable and absolutely worth conserving, and even expanding them for the needs of the modern age.
Freedom from tyranny is more important now than it has ever been.
>>70380362
Fuck you Imma fight to keep my freedom to get shot.
