Most people talking shit about the movie simply don't get what Snyder was trying to do.
Snyder is attempting to equate superheroes to mythological beings, making parallels between the events in the movie and works of universal literature, greek myths, iconic religious figures and arthuric legends.
Every single one of them serves a different purpose.
Moby Dick illustrates Batman's obsession and the loss of himself that ensues.
Luthor comparing Supes with Prometheus illustrates his allegorical fight against Olympus and his comparison of Zod with Icarus mirrors Zod's exhorbitant ambition.
Arthuric imagery deals with the entire tragedy aspect, the rupture of a pact shatters the lives of those involved and precipitates their death, moral (BW) and literal (CK), but since at the end they are reborn in those aspects that's when religious imagery comes in.
Religious imagery is both used to convey how timeless these ideals behind the superheroes are, and to establish a dissonance between Clark by himself and clark as seen by others, it is also used to convey transformation, rebirth and absolution.
Also people complaining about Clark picking up the spear at the end are stupid. This is the one and only truly selfless and heroic decision he takes during the course of the movie, the harpoon he takes being his only weakness actually adds another dimension to what's happening, he's living up to his image.
I noticed a neat visual reference to the dissonance between ideal superman and actual superman in the shot when you have Supe's monument on the left, Superman on the right and doomsday in the middle, the framing makes Clark look minuscule in comparison to both.
>>68750087
DON'T CARE
SHIT FLICK
KILL YOURSELF
>>68750087
>>68750087
It's a shit movie and those messages were really hamfisted, don't really need explaining.
I love how Snyder apologists will go to great lengths to make the movie seem like it's deep when the shit they bring up is really obvious and entry level in terms of symbolism.
>>68750109
But if it is my friend evansposter
Having fun evading those bans?
>Most people talking shit about the movie simply don't get what Snyder was trying to do.
Oh we know what he was TRYING to do.
Unfortunately you dont get that many points for just trying.
>>68750103
>>68750109
>>68750115
>>68750153
Right on time.
>>68750087
nah its just a bad movie, don't work yourself up over it.
Do you think Prometheus ever smiled as the vulture ate his liver? Why would Superman, Kryptonian genocider, smile?
>>68750087
>people just don't understand it
We listened to Snyder's bro philosophy being shitted out of Eisenberg's mouth, we got it, pseudo intellectual garbage that appeals to a high school students sensibility.
>>68750087
Go on.
I loved that there are glimpses of Ancient Greek architecture sprinkled throughout the film.
>>68750279
Care to fit more buzzwords in your post dumb frogposter?
>Most people talking shit about the movie simply don't get what Snyder was trying to do.
>>68750279
>somebody spent time drawing this
Is this supposed validate your objectively wrong opinions? LMAO
![1461107889493[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/yJU4TV3.jpg "1461107889493[1].jpg")
>>68750087
>A reading from the Acts of Man of Steel
>Scene 2:13: Selected passages
>3 And I heard a loud voice from the cinema saying, "Look! Snyder's dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and Snyder himself will be with them and be their saviour.
>4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more repetitive or safe or cheap comedy or quips, for the old order of Marvel movies has passed away."
>13 And so they hated him, and persecuted him. The critics crucified him and threw rotten tomatoes at him.
>14 But he persevered and gained strength from the audience, and so we will persevere.
>15 And he stands by the right side of the spirit of Kino, and draws inspiration from it, and so will his followers.
>22 During the filming of the port battle at Batman v Superman, Snyder was found wandering along the port.
>23 In one of such instances he walked on water while carrying an IMAX camera on one hand, which greatly terrified his cast and crew at that time.
>24 Affleck, out of fear, shouted "Snyder, if it is you, tell me to come to the water!"
>25 "Come". Snyder said.
>26 Affleck stepped on the water and walked for a few feet but then sank. He cried out "Snyder, hast thou forsaken me? Save me, oh dear brother!"
>27 Immediately Snyder reached out his hand and caught him.
>28 Snyder exclaimed, "Bin Muhammad Afflecki, why did you doubt?"
>29 And so the heretic one vowed to spread the word.
>>68750087
>Most people talking shit about the movie simply don't get what Snyder was trying to do.
He was trying to smash 2 different movies together into a horrible abomination
I didn't know /tv/ was this badly filled with plebs
Snyder will keep doing what he does because he can take the hate of the ignorant peasants that gobble up derivative feel-good superhero crap, he knows they'll see, either tomorrow or in 15 years.
>>68750322
Hello Evans my old friend
http://archive.4plebs.org/tv/search/filename/1430669549802.jpg%20/
>>68750087
fucking hell stop with this shit already
>>68750372
Idk how you are judging objective, if we have to get down to the mathematic facts- accumulated averages and such- BvS got shit on critically so.. I'm not even a marvel fan boy, I just know that pic makes DC cycle cry. Marvel is worse than DC, at least DC makes different movies even if they are shit, every marvel movie is the same.
>>68750087
Zack, you've been posting here for weeks now. It's time to stop.
>>68750328
>has nothing but smugness
Pathetic
Blind Roman pierces Jesus and gains sight
Arthur allows himself to be pierced by his abomination son to kill them both
Superman pierces the ghost of his people with weapon that also made him vulnerable to die
Does Superman equal the Roman? Did Jesus allow himself to be pierced, then Superman would be Jesus? Arthur acknowledging his sin of Mordred is the same as Superman acknowledging his sin of Zod? Does that imply Superman regrets destroying Krypton? On Mordred, "Let us embrace father" then stabs Arthur? So is Superman the Mordred, theRoman? Forsaking his father, his planet, his savior? Jesus forgives and heals the blind Roman, Arthur never acknowledges his freak son but sure pities him enough to mercy kill him? Is Doomsday Jesus or Arthur? Jesus forgives, Arthur pities - Superman dies. Let Superman die from sins of genocide, but genocide in response to genocide. Revenge of ghost Doomsday, Revenge of sister in Mordred, revenge is promise of return of offense. Superman marginalize KRypton for Earth and die from revenge of planet. Pierced in side by unforgiving, pitiable ignorant revenge spectre Roman Mordred mindless Doomsday and takes accepts revenge as just and forgives. Supreman is Jesus!
>>68750109
WHy dont they look for more donuts in that fridge right there in the middle?
>>68750441
This just illustrates how much DCuck ass pain there has been in the past month.
>>68750535
Kryptonite is from Remnant of Krypton
Zod is Ghost of Krypton
Superman is Destroyer of Krypton
Kill Ghost with Remnant (this very tao- return to sender really), Ghost kill Destroyer (gets revenge), Destroyer dies and becomes Savior!
>>68750087
But in reality, Synder was just setting up more movies so that more money could be made so that retards would flock to see more. Marvel does the same shit, DC is nothing different.
>>68750622
No, it actually illustrates that all the hate is simply one or two heavily dedicated spammer(s), presumably autistic since he (they) lack the eye for unconventional art
>>68750622
It illustrates that evansposters are autists
>>68750622
Still Avatar
This board is filled with popcorn-eating children.
It's disgusting.
L I T E R A L L Y C A P E K I N O
B R A V O S N Y D E R !
R
A
V
O
S
N
Y
D
E
R
!
>>68750087
Is 'BvS is Deep'-posting the new Baneposting?
>>68750839
>Superman monument reaching down like a God as humanity fails to understand why Superman exists (a perfect allusion to the church scene in Man of Steel where the priest saw Clark as an holy figure -- note: the image was from the preacher's perspective, not for the audience)
>in the end, following his sacrifice, they realize he was just a vulnerable man like the everyone else who wanted to do the right thing - he was given a normal human grave - his monument being exactly what Bruce's speech describes ("We Fight. We Kill. We Betray One Another. But We Can REBUILD. We Can Do Better. We Will")
>>68750928
What's the symobolism of Wally (interesting choice of first name) Keefe scrawling False God on the indeed False God statue then later becoming the unwilling weapon of Lex Luthor?
The nature of the weapon used against an invincible man is worth noting.
>DCbros are civil, erudite and calmly expose why the movie is great, pointing out interesting symbolism
>Marvelcucks spam reaction faces
Some say this board is Plebs V Patricians
But it's actually Children V Adults.
Shit thread
Batman versus Superman is the most African movie Hollywood has put out in decades!
Supermans real name is Kal-El. In Kehmet, the Ka energy is the spiritual energy of life that carries all the souls characteristics. KAl-El: KA energy., Superman carries the characteristics of his planet with him, just like spiritual power inside all Africans. The Israelites that created him knew this (the original Israelites were pure African).
Ba-tman. Ba! As in ba-ttle, meaning physical confrontation. The Ba energy, people. The energy that surrounds and composes our physical bodies is the BA energy. BAtman is the epitome of physical conditioning and genius. The ultimate B(A)ody and mind
Batman v Superman is veiled message about the upcoming BA versus KA showdown as the final stages of the RA (godly energy) ascension commence. The DC Hebrews are portraying the fight between the spiritual and the physical.
In the end (SPOILERS), the KA energy is destroyed. Why would the DC Hebrews present this in this way? It is a message! Our spiritual beings must be destoryed and then reconstructed from the perspective of the BA, the body. The current African plights and tribulations must be used to reconfigure and revive our spirits. The current KA hanging over us is not perfected yet and is corrupted by HUMANITY(represennted expertly by Lex Luthor) and it must be rejected and reconsittued starting from the BA. This is why other races hate the natural African body while also wanting to steal from it and exploit it! They are influencing our KA through the BA.
To access the RA energy, we must remove our current KA and remodel it using the BA -- our shared African heritage! THE AFRICAN INTELLECTUAL GENEALOGICAL PHYSIOLOGICAL HERITAGE!!
African allies, The DC Hebrews are sending us this message.
WAKE UP!
>>68750087
>still hasn't hot $900 million worldwide
>two of the most iconic superheroes, one of whom just came off a multi billion dollar trilogy of successful films, together in one film to do something people have been waiting decades to see on the big screen
JUST
>>68751484
It's a product for the ages, not weekends.
Why do Snyder defenders always think that people don't like his movies because they don't understand them? It's the same thing you get from Sucker Punch or Man of Steel fans. There's nothing subtle about the way Snyder approaches his themes, at all. His movies aren't hated because they're misunderstood, they're hated because they're grossly incompetent.
![1461205647303[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/NxX8NmI.jpg "1461205647303[1].jpg")
Could someone share their thoughts on what the Wayne family crest represents? Not sure if the animal depicted is a dog.
It's a great detail that the shape of the modern logo and old crest are inversed, tying it with the "demons come from the sky" theme.
Here's the dialogue of that scene in particular for reference.
>You know you can't win this. It's suicide.
>I'm older now than my father ever was. This may be the only thing I do that matters.
>Twenty years of fighting criminals amounts to nothing?
>Criminals are like weeds, Alfred. Pull one out, another grows in its place. This is about the future of the world, my legacy. You know, my father sat me down right here, and told me what Wayne Manor was built on.
>Railroads, real estates, and oil.
>First generation made their fortune trading with the French: pelts, skins. They were hunters.
The movie is boring and it feels like a bunch of deleted scenes cobbled together with occasional nonsensical action scenes.
The whole thing is awful; accept it and move on.
>>68751514
It's a product to be skewered by Rifftrax
>tfw fucking Ant man has more memorable scenes than BvS
Bravo DC.
>>68751125
>DCbros are civil, erudite and calmly
Is this guy for real?
>>68751579
>Actually giving Mike Nelson money
Might as well kill yourself while you're at it
>>68750087
>Moby Dick illustrates Batman's obsession and the loss of himself that ensues.
No it doesn't.
>Luthor comparing Supes with Prometheus illustrates his allegorical fight against Olympus and his comparison of Zod with Icarus mirrors Zod's exhorbitant ambition.
No it doesn't.
>Arthuric imagery deals with the entire tragedy aspect, the rupture of a pact shatters the lives of those involved and precipitates their death, moral (BW) and literal (CK), but since at the end they are reborn in those aspects that's when religious imagery comes in.
Except that's not what it's meant to do at all.
>Religious imagery is both used to convey how timeless these ideals behind the superheroes are, and to establish a dissonance between Clark by himself and clark as seen by others, it is also used to convey transformation, rebirth and absolution.
No, it's not.
You're adding shit that's not there to try and give yourself the impression that a SUMMER BLOCKBUSTER you just watched has depth. You're worse than Dark Souls fags.
i like norse mythos better
>>68751608
No. This entire thread is b8.
I don't want to have to decipher philosophical imagery and dialogue while I'm watching a fucking Batman v Superman movie. It's supposed to be a thrilling crowd pleaser, not Sunday night History homework.
>>68750087
but it's shit though
>>68751654
>no it doesn't
Amazing argument braindead retard
>>68750087
These threads are ironic right?
>>68751691
Each screw in Optimus Prime represents humanity working together as a machine to defeat evil (Megatron) who is composed of ill-fated religions like Islam. Transformers is too deep for you.
>>68751682
>It's not what I wanted to be so it's bad
>>68751775
Good thing the 28% RT score is backing me up.
>>68751766
What if it does? Do you really need someone to explain the difference between some popcorn flick director like Bay and an auteur like Zack to you??
>>68750671
You know what I find interesting? The possibility that the studio demanded they include all the elements that they did and they managed to work it all in and make it fit.
The reason I say "possibility" is because it all depends on how you interpret the motivations of Lex and whether or not you think he ever states his actual plan. Most people take what he says to Clark on the helipad as him revealing his goals in the stereotypical villain monologue, but I say that's not necessarily the case.
>>68751775
>these fries are actually rotten eggs
>hurr durr why don't you eat them anyway
Yeah asshole, we got all of that. It still doesn't make the final fight less ridiculous, the music not shit, inclusion of other superheroes hamfisted and blah blah blah. This movie had a lot of very basic and important problems.
I still kinda liked it tho, had its moments, 7/10 flick.
>>68751815
>Ad populum
>>68751901
>retarded food analogies
Further proof that only /v/eddit dislikes capekino
>>68751573
In heraldry, dogs normally represent loyalty.
>>68751336
how does
what i
no never mind
>>68750087
Those are all nice ideas but if you can't execute them well (which this movie didn't) then it don't mean shit.
>>68750087
>Snyder is attempting to equate superheroes to mythological beings, making parallels between the events in the movie and works of universal literature, greek myths, iconic religious figures and arthuric legends.
WOW and that has NEVER been done before with these characters before. It's a good thing he made it so obvious so simpletons like you could detect it and think it was real deep. Maybe you should trying reading a book you fucking retard, you'll probably fucking jizz your pants.
The movie, ironically, is like a shitty comic book that was made to appear as high art. The only reason you like it is either because you are a moron and it's simplistic themes and imagery are so shallow that you can actually detect them, you are a man-child who still holds a allegiance to a comic book brand because you never grew up, or because the vast majority of people tell you it's awful and you want to be the dissenting opinion because you think it makes you special.
>>68752315
Stop projecting kiddo
>>68750279
yeah brooo snyder wrote that just like he wrote all the dialogue in the movie
>>68750087
>Snyder is attempting to equate superheroes to mythological beings, making parallels between the events in the movie and works of universal literature, greek myths, iconic religious figures and arthuric legends.
>first example is Moby Dick
Stopped reading righ here.
>>68750087
Thank you based OP. Knowing the truth of how Kino this film is.
>tfw have to wait til june for the blu ray director cut
>>68752927
I hope we get a commentary but doubt it considering director's hardly do them anymore these days
>>68750087
>Arthuric
>>68750087
>if shit makes tenuous, unnecessary allusions to art, it makes it good
no
>>68753037
Oops, will correct
Thanks :)
>>68752927
>Adding deleted scenes is a 'director's cut'
>>68753116
>Not knowing that the actual cut is 4 hours long
I'm hyped tbphwy
>>68751980
Thanks, that helped.
The sword is the symbol of the military
honor. It is also a symbol of power
and freedom. .
The sword (especially with flame) is
also a symbol of purification.
Bare arm represents an industrious people,
someone who believes in hard work
The dog is the symbol for courage
vigilance and fidelity.
http://www.familytreesandcrests.com/heraldry-symbols.htm
>>68750087
>the rupture of a pact
which pact?
>>68750087
What does the retarded cape represent?
What does a chubby muslim in a hilarious bat suit represent?
What does that shit monster made out of facebook kids blood represent?
What does that black from the matrix represent?(perhaps the genocide of white people ? he replaced a white guy, it is like poetry)
What does zak schiender only making terrible terrible popcorn trash his entire career represent?
Was bin afflecki(PBUH) becoming a muslim all part of the marketing build up to these 'religious themes' in this movie about manchildren beating each other up in inane costumes?
Why did they have this kid playing the riddler pretending to be lex luthor(maybe impersonation themes, seperation of Id,ego,superego?)? POTTERY
Are you trying to say that just like all of mythology, this movie is just pure bullshit made up by people that had no clue about how the world works at any level? stunning.
On an unrelated note, who was 'the dark knight', they made a movie called the dark knight rises and still don't know who was the dark knight?, is it bane? because he rose out of the plane as it was crashing with no survivors ?
>>68753166
Hand
Credibility, sincerity and justice.
Armored hand-Gauntlet
Armored gloves symbolize a
armed man who is ready to wage war.
Also horses are important in the film
The horse is ready, ready for King
and country,. it is also a symbol of speed,
intelligence and masculinity.
lthough the spear, the spearhead and
the broken spear all very similar
symbols are they each have their
own symbolic meaning.
The spear, lance or spear-tipping
is an emblem the gallant service and
devotion to the honor and chivalry.
The broken lance is a symbol of peace.
The spear tip symbolizes skill and
dexterity of a person
A person who is ready for battle
>>68753198
The pact between the heroes and the people
>>68752216
Kino is African word for film
BvS is pure kino
>>68750578
whelp shit talking my waifu offended me more than it should have
guess im making a tumblr account
>>68750087
>>68750087
Yeah, 'cept mythological beings of actual myths usually don't give a shit about mortals, and if superhero doesn't, then he has no point whatsoever.
>>68750087
Why does superman say "Martha" instead of "Mom?" Does he always refer to his mother by her first name?
>>68752315
Not OP, but I'd like to expand on what he's saying, because I think there's more there.
>Moby Dick illustrates Batman's obsession and the loss of himself that ensues.
Obsession is a central component to all three principles' character arcs:
1) Lex is obsessed with his own world view, and in it, he sees himself as the intellectual superior of everyone. He thinks the fact that other people don't all pursue their desires to the degree that he does only serves as further proof of their limited intelligence, their inability to see the bigger picture.
"'Psychotic' is a three-syllable word for ideas too big for small minds."
He believes that his superior, if amoral, intellect will bring him everything he wants via manipulation of the people and resources at his disposal. Furthermore, he believes that perception is as important as reality and that his scheme will win him what he covets from Clark - the mantle of savior in the eyes of humanity.
The three people that don't act in ways supportive of his world view all foil key elements of his scheme at different [point by proving more perceptive and less pragmatic than he expects - Finch by denying him his license and reading more deeply into his motivations than he would like; Clark by not taking the simplest route out of his dilemma, and Bruce by overcoming his own obsession with revenge. Lex's scheme hinges on his world view and his obsessive belief in its validity is the weak foundation upon which it is built.
>>68751125
This.Marvelcucks know they'll whatever shit they put on their plate and don't want to be reminded that better movies could be done
![rejection[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Ssi6gL4.jpg "rejection[1].jpg")
>>68753294
Another obsessive autist
http://archive.4plebs.org/tv/search/filename/1458793927439.png/
>>68753366
1) Bruce is obsessed with vengeance. That's his "beautiful lie" - that vengeance can bring him peace. His nightmare with the bat-monster is his own subconscious trying to warn him that his obsession is eating him.
He creates the spear and wields it, thinking himself the hero(Arthur). When he realizes that he's not the hero, but just a man driven by obsession(Ahab), he throws it away in disgust, finally aware of what his obsession nearly drove him to become. Seeing Clark act in the role of the hero serves to revive within Bruce his belief in the "better angels" of humanity and signals the return of his ideals.
>>68751484
>Batman: 4th reboot in 20 years and after his most iconic portrayal
>Superman: disliked by everyone and 2nd reboot in 10 years
Gee! I wonder if the new Spiderman movie will break 2 billions :^D
>>68751125
>any civil war thread before BvS came out was filled with DC shills shoehorning BvS into every conversation and how it would be superior
>any BvS thread that came out has a bunch of DC manchildren circle jerking each other over how perfect their heroes in tights were
and now one fag spams chris evans laughing and you try to conform it to your narrative
let me guess, bernie2016?
>>68751564
It is just memeing.
Just like people pretending to like marvel or other capeshit. It is all a joke, you would have to be 10 years old to actually think any of this is good.
>>68750087
>Snyder is attempting to equate superheroes to mythological beings
We're well aware, he won't stop talking about it in every interview he makes.
Just because he claims it's mythological doesn't mean it actually is.
Why do you mortals fear what you don't understand?
>>68750087
>Most people talking shit about the movie simply don't get what Snyder was trying to do.
Correct.
Most people don't know.
Most people think they know.
They think he was trying to make a Mehville Moovy.
>>68750087
>they don't get what he was trying to do
>trying to do
>TRYING
![da4b936eb475a13584ebe1630905baa5-free-shrugs[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/fehjoQn.jpg "da4b936eb475a13584ebe1630905baa5-free-shrugs[1].jpg")
>>68753783Encountering the unknown reminds them of the ultimate unknown: death.
If a person is unsatisfied with their lives and feels inadequate they reject it out of fear of having to face their own mortality one day and realizing that they wasted their lives.
So instead of facing their inner demons they choose to cower in the warm and soothing but provisional embrace of escapism and ignorance.
>>68753456
>2)
3) Clark is triply obsessed with his guilt over the death that occurred in the Kryptonian invasion. the tragic, if necessary, killing of Zod, and his fears over not being able to foresee the long-term consequences of his actions.
Through the film, we're made aware that in the time since his debut on the world stage, Clark hasn't been holding himself publicly accountable for his subsequent actions. Much of the public outcry centers around him being unaccountable to anyone.
In choosing to answer his summons to the Senate hearing, Clark takes his first step toward facing his guilt and fear, only to have it cruelly snatched from under him by Lex's actions, which serves to further reinforce his fears of not being able to foresee the tragic outcome.
His mountaintop reflections on his father serve to inform us of how he's coming to understand his road forward. His father's story serves to remind Clark that no one can see all the possibilities and that the best anyone can do is make their decisions based on the dictates of their conscience and stand ready to face the consequences, both good and bad. It's at this point, Clark remembers that no one gets to "choose his world," but him. His decisions and how he chooses to live with them are what determine that world.
In the pivotal scene, Clark's decision sets the stage for all that follows. By not choosing the most obvious path out of his dilemma with the most easily discernible(if deceptive) consequences, he brings all of Lex's careful machinations to naught. In electing not to simply kill Bruce, he simultaneously foils Lex's scheme and allows time for Bruce to come to his senses.
In the final act, we see Clark announce to Lois that this is his world, take up the spear, and confront the personification of his guilt as embodied by Doomsday. In this moment, there are echoes of both the heroic Arthur risking his own life in lieu of others, and the obsessive Ahab stabbing away at the object of his obsession.
>>68753328
confirmed for knowing next to nothing about mythology.
>>68751654
>You're worse than Dark Souls fags.
Your /v/ is showing, pal.
>>68750153
Yeah, I'm a DC fanboy and think that the MCU is one of the worst things ever, directly analogous to film what Call of Duty was to video games, but this middle school analysis to try and polish Snyder's turds is just pathetic. So DC made 1 or 2 bad movies, get over it. No one is trying to call Batman and Robin high art. This movie isn't good, and I don't know why there is a flame war over this. It's not like these characters are going away if thees movie tank. These characters have outlasted a World War, the Comic Code, the 60s, the 90s, and now this whole bout of SJW nonsense. I think they can survive Zack Snyder dropping the ball. I'm definitely looking forward to the inevitable Batfleck movie. It should be good.
>>68750087
>>68750087
I'm literally starting to fucking hate marvel fans, I'm a genuine fan of any caprshit, high octain action cgi romps.
But really guys your just being absolute Jews bashing batman, they can't make another batman origin story so as a hole piece it fits well, there is more a plot and more to think about than any marvel film. Age of ultron was a crock of shit, superheroes fight bad guy, shit load of cgi an gags and memes a plenty. BVS is a foundation for films to come, you'll all go watch all of them in the series so what's the problem, it was actually refreshing seeing something fucking different, direction was top class
>>68756204
Snyder didn't drop the ball, the audience dropped the ball.
Something else I found interesting is that the three main characters each have two companion characters - one that speaks their inner truth and one that offers suggestions for their respective paths forward.
Bruce has Alfred and Diana. Alfred speaks to Bruce in unvarnished truth about the fact that he's become more brutal and cruel and obsessively single-minded. Alfred points out that Bruce actually enjoys more success through his subtlety(Bruce Wayne) than he gains through his brutality(the Batman). Diana, through her words and actions, encourages Bruce to trust, share, and embrace teamwork.
Clark has Lois and Martha. Lois calls Clark out on his avoidance of consequence and Martha(along with his memories of his father) encourage him to choose his world and make peace with the consequences of his actions.
Lex has Finch and Mercy. Finch tells Lex that perception and reality are not synonymous(Granny's Peach Tea) and lets him know that his motivations, however disguised, are not lost on her. Fittingly, of all the characters, Mercy is the most silent, Lex already having decided his course long ago. In bombing the hearing, Lex murders both his conscience and Mercy.
>>68757216
One thing that has been in my mind lately is how much emphasis Lex puts on his father. Out of the three main characters, it's noteworthy that Lex's mother is never mentioned.
I can only help but wonder if what he meant with "my father's fist and abominations" had more to do with how Lex Sr. treated Lex Jr.'s mother and the impotence he felt with not being able to protect her.
Just an interesting theory, of course.
>>68757586
Yeah, that is interesting in light of the fact we know he's an orphan, or at least claims to be.
>>68753268
It's german word
>>68757868
>Every boy's special lady is his mother.
>>68750087
>http://www.ew.com/article/2008/07/17/watchmen-chat-director-zack-snyder
ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: First 300, now Watchmen — have you always been a comics fan?
ZACK SNYDER: I came to comic books through my mother. I loved fantasy art — I love Frank Frazetta [the famed illustrator known for adult-oriented, sword-and-sorcery, and sci-fi imagery]. I went to boarding school. You weren’t allowed too many posters up, and everything I set up was slightly inappropriate. Frazetta’s naked girls, ripped up guys — the kids were like, ”What the hell?!” They had their Boy George posters up, I had crazy Frazetta. My mother saw I was into this comic called Heavy Metal magazine, so she got me a subscription. You could call it ”high-brow” comics, but to me, that comic book was just pretty sexy! I had a buddy who tried getting me into ”normal” comic books, but I was all like, ”No one is having sex or killing each other. This isn’t really doing it for me.” I was a little broken, that way. So when Watchmen came along, I was, ”This is more my scene.”
>I had a buddy who tried getting me into ”normal” comic books, but I was all like, ”No one is having sex or killing each other. This isn’t really doing it for me.” I was a little broken, that way.
>>68758537
EW: Several filmmakers have tried to turn Watchmen into a movie and failed. One issue Hollywood has always had with the material is that it requires an intimate familiarity with the superhero genre in order to fully appreciate it. Does the fact that Watchmen is finally being made into a movie indicate something has changed in the culture?
ZS: The average movie audience has seen — well, I can’t even count the amount of superhero movies. Fantastic Four, X-Men, Superman, Spider-Man. The Marvel universe has gone nuts; we’re going to have a fricking Captain America movie if we’re not careful. Thor, too! We’re on our second Hulk movie. And Iron Man — $300 million domestic box office on a second tier superhero! And not to demean Iron Man — my point is that we all know about superheroes now. I can ask my mother, ”Mom, when the Hulk isn’t the Hulk, who is he?” ”Bruce Banner. Why? What a weird question.” I could ask her, ”What happened to Bruce Wayne’s parents?” ”They were killed at an opera.” You’re getting to that saturation level where superhero movies, it’s hard for them to figure out what more to do.
>The Marvel universe has gone nuts; we’re going to have a fricking Captain America movie if we’re not careful.
Wow, imagine that!
>>68758537
Is there something wrong with liking sex I'm not aware of?
Yeah man DC movies are really good! Heh...
>>68758589
EW: Well, one new point of difference is make them more grim and gritty, like Hancock or The Dark Knight, which seems to also work in Watchmen’s favor —
ZS: Everyone says that about [Christopher Nolan’s] Batman Begins. ”Batman’s dark.” I’m like, okay, ”No, Batman’s cool.” He gets to go to a Tibetan monastery and be trained by ninjas. Okay? I want to do that. But he doesn’t, like, get raped in prison. That could happen in my movie. If you want to talk about dark, that’s how that would go. I believe that pop culture is just, like, so ready for Watchmen. We tried so hard to ride that wave between satire and reality, and all the things that make you still care about the character, but you don’t miss the commentary about them. Nite-Owl is Batman. The guy has a fricking cave under his house! No doubt a fanboy will look at the movie and not get it. ”He looks just like Batman!” Precisely. When people saw our version of the Ozymandias costume on the Internet, some were like, ”It’s like a Joel Schumacher Batman movie! The costume has nipples! That’s crazy!” And I’m like, ”Yeah, but that’s the point!” With their comic, Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons were saying, ”Superheroes are kinda funky, aren’t they?” We build upon that with a movie that acknowledges that superhero movies have affected pop culture.
>"Batman’s dark.” I’m like, okay, ”No, Batman’s cool.” He gets to go to a Tibetan monastery and be trained by ninjas. Okay? I want to do that. But he doesn’t, like, get raped in prison. That could happen in my movie. If you want to talk about dark, that’s how that would go.
Wow.
>>68758537
>I was a little broken, that way.
what a fucking edgelord.
>>68750087
>Most people talking shit about the movie simply don't get what Snyder was trying to do.
We understand what Synder is trying to do - It is just he made a bad //movie// by focusing on elements other than what makes a movie good.
It's like modern art - You can say we don't get what the artist is trying to do, but a cracked mirror hanging on a wall is simply not the pinnacle of artistic creativity.
>>68758537
>>68758589
>>68758642
>>68758642
EW: About the violence: You have a scene in your movie where Dr. Manhattan incinerates a bad guy — and your camera dotes of the bloody, chunky aftermath. That’s pretty intense for a superhero movie.
ZS: That’s Superman gone bad. If Superman grabbed your arm and pulled really hard, he’d pull your arm out of your socket. That’s the thing you don’t see in a Superman movie. But in Watchmen, what you get is, like, ”I’m a Superman, and I really want to help mankind — but I just tore this guy in half by accident. People call me a ‘superhero,’ but I don’t even know what that means. I just blew this guy to bits! That’s heroic?”
Oh fuck, we were warned.
>>68758818
Warned? It says it right there - Manhattan is "Superman gone bad," That's basically saying that Manhattan is a guy so powerful that he can cause harm just by trying to do good. His first two Superman films have been about a man trying to do good without his actions causing more harm. Supes can't just hop off to a research lab and jump science and technology forward like Manhattan could by virtue of being superhumanly intelligent, so Supes is stuck trying to find a different way to benefit mankind.
>>68758972
I guess the surprising thing is that he would retread the same tired theme from Watchmen in a fucking Superman movie of all things.
I guess he's just obsessed with edge and "deconstruction".
>symbolism I understood
>hamfisted
>symbolism I didn't understand
>pretentious
>>68759064
I'd see it as a retread if Clark just decided "screw humanity," and left. The fact that he's making his way step-by-step to becoming comic book Superman continues to give me hope.
>>68759495
I think the issue here with this movie is he was thinking "I can make a single 8 hour movie" instead of making 3-4 different 2-2.5 hour movies
Zach's vision, or DC's wallet, is so deep it's overshadowed making a GOOD movie. They spent the entire movie franchise building and trying to jump to Justice League to cash in on those bucks, they destroyed so much awesome building up to the justice league in the process
>batmans development is actually spot on
>lots of hints of shit going bad for him & losing Robin
>being okay with killing dudes / bad guys dying
>batman has actually fallen to his lowest point and needs supe to bring him back to the light
>supe just kinda lols throughout the movie
>tells batman to piss off for some reason like he's the authority on who can do good things
>basically treats batman like a vigilante, while superman is literally a vigilante
>MY VIGILANTE JUSTICE IS THE ONLY ONE IN TOWN FUCCBOI
>when he actually asks batman for help he can't get a word in edge wise without getting tricked into some looney toons level traps and trickary
>the b v s fight sucked dick and was so rigid because of batmans armor - one small thing gone wrong for batman and his goose would be cooked
>don't really give them a genuine reason to fight other than "im batman and think superman is a prick" and superman being a prick to batman
>all these fucking dream sequences building up to a franchise
>didn't spend the time just making the movie solid
>having to introduce fucking wonder woman in a movie where two of the biggest pop culture names in comics (not just DC, bat and supes are larger than all marvel IP's) because the movie is that shallow
>literally spending minutes of precious screen time watching wayne look at micro trailers for new DC IP's and future movies
>they have a flash TV show but fuck that we have a new flash now
>we're gonna combine Darkseid and the plot from Injustice Gods Among Us - this movie is just a trailer for that lololol
>>68759727
You know? You just made me aware of something. I think I finally see what Superman's real problem is with the Batman as we see him in the film.
Superman is basically "Super First-Responder," reacting to crises as they develop and intervening. while the Batman comes across more as the true vigilante, hunting criminals proactively and pursuing leads like some sort of unregulated law enforcement.
The only thing remotely vigilante-esque we see Superman do is intervene to save Lois - he wasn't there pushing some political agenda(although he could), he was again just responding to a crisis.
guys the movie is bad because I say so and because I saw a funny man on the internet saying so too, deal with it
>>68759892
>hunting criminals proactively and pursuing leads like some sort of unregulated law enforcement.
The issue with Supes is that, his super hearing makes him able to respond at the time of a crisis - but the issue there is he also doesn't really have a means to filter it out.
Synder was going to have a scene in the movie where he was listening to try and find his mother, but he couldn't hear her cries for help over the crimes being committed in the city and the people who need him. I think they pulled that scene because it showed that Superman is willing to consciously sacrifice those in need to save his mother, instead of just being kind of blind because of emotion in the moment and getting tunnel vision.
Either way, they both do the same thing. Batman just tracks people down because it's his way of "listening" - The fact Supe fucked up the bat mobile, but didn't pursue the people Batman was going after / foil Lex's plan shows Superman has no real idea what he is doing. He just feels like doing *something* is the right thing.
I would have liked these themes explored and fleshed out more in the movie, instead of PTSD Bat being angry at Superman and Superman not being able to say "Hey can you help me save my mum please?" and all the fucking franchise building they shoved into this movie.
>>68760074
I've always liked that angle on Superman. It's something that's definitely an ongoing theme in the movies, too. That whole "maybe" conversation takes on a new meaning when cast in that light. People forget that he *has* to ignore all those things and be selective if he hopes to have any semblance of a normal life.
Holy shit, it really doesn't matter WHAT Snyder was trying to do.
The movie was shit, get over it or kill yourself.
>>68751881
>Bay is a popcorn flick director
>b-b-b-b-but Zack Snyder totally isn't guys!
>>68760459
Tell you what. Why don't you go start a thread calling Michael Bay a hack and see how much analysis he gets, how much debate. He's a one-trick pony and doesn't even know when to stop.
See how many people offer up motifs and visual themes in his work and see how well they can support them.
>>68760573
Delusional retards analyzing a shit film doesn't indicate that Zack Snyder is a good director.
>>68760668
And small-minded participation trophies like you doesn't make him a hack, either. Go be special with all the other good little boys and girls.
Where's your thread?
The reason BvS has bad rating is because Disney is the SJW company who the 'progressive' media love to stand behind and the media is made up of children who cannot understand that you can like more than one studio
They hate on BvS because it isn't Marvel, and thus their retarded peon readers parrot that shit without seeing the movie and all the other 'critics' feel like they have to go with the status quo of shitting on something even though they loved it
>>68760763
I didn't call him a hack, I actually like some his movies.
But saying he's different from Michael Bay is literally retarded.
Zack Snyder's only strong point is that he makes visually compelling movies, that's it.
>>68760853
Good. So now that we've established an actual dialogue that doesn't fall back on tedious insults, where do you feel it failed?
>>68760853
This could be personal tastes of my own, but I've never once felt a desire to dig into a Michael Bay film, much less re-watch one.
>>68760853
If you can't see the difference between Snyder and bay's films you are literally retarded.
>>68750713
Its not art. Its fucking reddit
>>68760573
People love Bay, bruh.
He's further educated than Snyder and he clearly knows what he's doing.
I've seen a bunch of videos analysing his stuff.
>>68761024
Your >muh reddit obsession is really beyond unhealthy at this point anon
Do you say that your mom's new boyfriend is reddit too?
The bullies at your school, are they reddit as well?
Grow the fuck up
>>68760942
Not that anon but
(1) Cramming in too many plotlines and ideas into one movie when it could ahve explored one or two possible narratives
(2) Making us care for Superman (and thats ironic, since I liked Superman in MoS)
(3) Make the Martha line convincing. The fact that a lot of people laugh at it shows that it was not effective. Its not the same as "I am your father" or "I am with you til the end of the line"
(4) Adapt some of the most iconic panels from the DC comcis into something compelling. The Dark Knight Returns Batman actually killed Joker. This one didn't. Making the visual reference fail.
I could go on, but BvS just fails through and through. Its only defenders are contrarians, and diehard DC fanboys
>>68760987
Yeah, Bay's films arefun.
>>68761121
And every last one of them concerns his technique - always the same things happening whether it's appropriate to the subject matter or not.
>>68761129
>>your mom's new boyfriend is reddit too
Neah, thats knowyourmeme
>>The bullies at your school, are they reddit as well?
No, thats Facebook
>>Grow the fuck up
You first.
>>68750196
It's funny because Rotten Tomatoes is actually WB.
>>68761137
>Adapt some of the most iconic panels from the DC comcis into something compelling. The Dark Knight Returns Batman actually killed Joker. This one didn't
I'll get back to the rest, but no, DKR Batman didn't kill the Joker. He paralyzed him. The Joker willfully finished the job himself to frame him for it.
>>68750839
>literally in the pose of Atlas = Superman is holding up the world = savior
BRAVO SNYDER
>>68761190
Pretty much this.
WB could have easily blocked out negative reviews on RT.
Hell, when The Dark Knight got positive reviews on RT, you people didn't accuse WB of buying out its reviewers, did you?
This is the exact same argument people tried to use about Sucker Punch.
Zack Snyder is not a smart man and his movies reflect this.
>>68761212
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8Pa-Ff-NXA
Still kills him.
>>68761217
>implying it's not because Snyderman is actually Atlas Shrugged because Snyder is an Aynfaggot
>>68761137
Your other complaints are understandable. My only real gripe was "Martha" as well. I understand it, but ultimately, it would have worked better without the flashback.
>>68750087
The biggest problem with the movie is the title. It's completely misleading and just doesn't fit.
I'm not saying that because I wanted a bunch of mindless fights between batman and superman, but it really isn't about them fighting each other, even if you take it as "v" like a court case.
M mean this guy >>68761137 is saying we need to care about superman but we don't at all, it isn't about superman, it's about everyone else reacting to him. Hell even the bit with Clark superman are just him feeling the effects of lex reacting to his existence. He's more of an idea than a character.
Just needs a more appropriate title.
>>68761306
How about just Dawn of Justice?
>>68761274
Here's the panels that's adapted from. Bruce did exactly what he intended, so did the Joker.
>>68761492
Pic
>>68761306
>>He's more of an idea than a character.
He even fails as an idea.
I'm going to say somerthing right now: if you liked Superman in BvS, or want to defend his depiction in BvS, you don't "get" Superman. Its not matter of "muh comic portrayal" or "muh Superman should all bright and happy". Its a lot more than that.
>>68761677
I'll defend it on the basis that he isn't *quite* Superman yet. The first movie was about him being forced into the public before he was completely ready. The second is about him struggling to find his place in the world. He does, but it's right before he dies.
If I'm at all on base with my opinions, the next appearance will be about him finding his public voice and refining the image he projects.
>>68761816
And in 2030 we'll have Superman
>>68761831
By the end of his next appearance is my bet.
>>68761831
In 2030, Disney will own Warner Bros.
>>68761816
If he's not quite Superman yet, then there's no point killing him. Why should the audience care for a man who didn't do much, and perhaps will do more, only after he "dies"?
The defense is weak because its based on the premise that the audience would suspend belief and would be interested in Superman coming back. But when Superman in BvS fails to achieve be interesting, the audience has less reason to want to see him come back.
Hell, I think the Superman in MoS was far compelling and interesting than the version in BvS. If he was at least trying in MoS, he comes off as hypocritical and a downright bully in BvS.
>>68761701
You do realize that prior to things like DKR and Watchmen, regular comics writing was, by and large, far, far less sophisticated than what came afterward? The man's in his fifties, and given what existed during that time frame, I can totally understand him not being a fan of comics. They really weren't for everyone.
>>68761960
>If he's not quite Superman yet, then there's no point killing him.
My opinion was that his death as depicted in BvS has far more narrative importance than his comics death ever had. I read those when they came out, and it was flat, uninteresting, and in retrospect the most transparently cynical marketing gimmick I've ever read.
In BvS, at least the death carries weight and is going to have greater impact on subsequent events. His sacrifice brought Bruce back to form, he'll now form the League, and Superman's return will see him finally having to confront the specter of godhood that's been hovering over him.
>>68762043
Yeah, it must have sex and people killing each other
>>68750087
>Most people don't get what Snyder was trying to do
Oh really? Because it seems like he is very on the nose about it. Yet, having large ambitions doesn't forfend you from being shallow - which is pretty much the Snyder problem. He comes up with structurally complex ideas, but has no idea how to really work them out. Sucker Punch is the most glaring example for this: a complex three tier narrative, where the whole movie happens in the brain of a side-character, and the 'real' plot is only alluded to. However, when you fail to build a decent story around it, and basically have nothing but an orgy of meaningless symbols, you only contrast just how bad the execution of your movie is compared to your pretense. His movies are not fancy movies, they are inflated big dumb movies. However, a monkey in a suit is still a monkey. And a movie is not deep, just because it has religious imagery or a vague reference to the classics in it.
>>68762277
You're huge fan of 60s-80s Supes, I take it?
>>68761306
I think the problem here is we need a second Superman movie of him finding his role in society. Him actually challenging and defeating Luther in a Superman solo movie would have given tons of ammo in the whole "can this man be stopped from changing our world against our will?"
We are given a lot of Superman just soaking up the attention like him rescuing people in that fire, but we aren't given the whole morality side of things.
All I wanted after Man of Steel was a The Dark Knight quality Superman movie. What I got was a really bad Justice League trailer and 1/5 of an amazing Batman movie
you're giving snyder way more credit than even he gives himself
>>68762310
What if that same imagery conveys a coherent and evolving theme, though?
What's showing up isn't random, and at least in my opinion isn't just there to look cool.
>>68761701
It all makes sense now
MoS and BvS must be lighthearted campy comedies in Snyder's eyesAlso, notice him saying how the superhero genre is satured by mentioning the Waynes' death lol
>>68750279
Why is she sucking on his belly button?
>>68750109
stop runing evansposting, faggot
>>68750087
Is there a parallel in mythology in which a female character watches YouTube videos of other characters for five minutes while awful industrial music plays above it?
I'm a DC fanboy who desperately wanted this film to be good, but even I couldn't deny that that entire scene was awkward.
>>68762147
>>I read those when they came out, and it was flat, uninteresting, and in retrospect the most transparently cynical marketing gimmick I've ever read.
You do realize you have just literally shit on what was one of the most controversial moves in DC comcis?
Killing off a main hero is not unquestionable to DC. They had killed off The Flash previously. And Supergirl. Granted, they brought both characters after a while, but it took decades. The Death of Superman in the comics had gravitas, because, after so many years of being in the comics, it really seemed possible that Superman would die. And never come back.
>>at least the death carries weight
To the story, maybe. Not to the audience. Not to the critic. Not to the normie.
>> going to have greater impact on subsequent events
aka Rush to Justice League. Why should I care about Cyborg, Flash and Aquaman? Hell, this is not even the TV Flash that we built a connection with.
>> His sacrifice brought Bruce back to form
There's no proof of this.
The death of Superman only works if Superman had a long history, and mattered to the viewer/reader. Jesus didn't die after performing a few miracle,s ehr performed many, and had been an actual saviour.
Like I said, you guys don't "get Superman"
>>68761234
While I agree to this shit, I believed IGN owned it at that time.WB owned part of it recently
>>68762621
Its placement was definitely awkward, but in terms of importance, was Bruce reaching out to her what changed her mind?
>>68762718
Its not an important scene.
Hell, I'm the anon who says that the Communion deleted scene should have been in the movie. But not the Justice league teaser videos.
For months, you had DCdrones talk about "how badass Aquaman is" and "he's betetr than anything Marvel will put out" And what did he do? Stare at the screen for a minute and throw a harpoon?
Why should I care for this man? I mean, Ant-man has a stupid ass name, but the actor was funny, his movie was decent, and he pulled off some impressive stuff.
>>68762695
>You do realize you have just literally shit on what was one of the most controversial moves in DC comcis?
>Killing off a main hero is not unquestionable to DC. They had killed off The Flash previously. And Supergirl. Granted, they brought both characters after a while, but it took decades. The Death of Superman in the comics had gravitas, because, after so many years of being in the comics, it really seemed possible that Superman would die. And never come back.
Yup. Read them all right off the newstand. Cried when I read the issue he died in. Then the bullshit kicked in, and I started to realize that his return actually said more about the character than his death ever did. Looking back on it, his depowered return was something they could have gotten to in any number of ways.
>Jesus didn't die after performing a few miracle,s ehr performed many, and had been an actual saviour.
Forgive me for saying so, but that's not the best parallel to draw, imagery notwithstanding, Jesus's ministry covered roughly the same amount of time Superman had been known to the world, and while we don't see them all on-screen, there were plenty of articles and headlines evincing his "miracles" during his brief career.
From a perspective of presentation, that might be a valid criticism, but not in terms of in-world impact.
As far as Bruce is concerned, we see his faith in humanity restored by the end, By his own words, "Men are still good."
>>68762944
I'm looking for what was the turning point for Diana. Why did she get on the plane just to turn around and get back off after seeing Bruce's email?
When the director's cut comes out, I'll be interested to see if that was yet another victim of the cutting room floor.
>>68762977
And thats what a movie is about: perspective of presentation.
Hell, you know whats missing from BvS? In fact, I won't type it. I'll post it.
>>68762394
So, what is he trying to do? Because he is definitely not giving us new myth, or even grand tales of humanity.
He gives us weird characters full of questionable motivation, interacting almost randomly, and adds a reference to make it seem meaningful and not random or unmotivated.
>I went shopping for hours at school, it felt like an odyssey
That's gibberish, even with the reference
>>68763070
>>68762944
It also doesn't make sense that he was hiding out in some kind of wrecked ship.
>>68763103
>>68750087
This movie was fucking awesome, can't wait for the blu ray
Go on, call me a shill
>>68763152
shill
>>68763143
>>68763070
And it's my contention that Superman hasn't found that balance yet. The one we had in this movie was the "swoop in and save the day" guy. His turning point is when he's hovering above the flood. That's where he realizes what he's becoming in the eyes of the people.
Subsequent appearances are most likely going to be developing that aspect of his character, reaching people in spite of the god-like aura that surrounds him.
>>68763171
(cont.)
>>68763186
You seem to not be getting what Superman is capable of doing, and should have been doing. Read what I'm storytiming.
Its something I imagine the MoS Superman could have done. Its not what BvS Superman did.
>>68763231
>>68750372
>>68763263
Fin.
>>68750087
There's nothing intelligent in that movie. Deal with it.
>>68753294
>audience score is equal
>iron man 3 scoring so high
What a comparison
>>68763296
This is why Superman is maybe the best super hero of all time.
>>68763296
BONUS ROUND: ALL STAR SUPERMAN
~
>>68763379
To follow up on my point here >>68763231 I could see MoS Superman as a man who, despite having to kill Zod, and being indirectly responsible for the deaths of thousands in the fight with Zod, despite all the negativity showered upon him, still be a "true" hero. BvS needed a Superman saving a jumper scene. Not a "audience in awe of an alien God" scene.
Because thats Dr. Manhattan. Thats cold. People were meant to fear Dr. Manhattan precisely because he was too godlike. That was the point of Watchmen, and it worked in the movie. But Superman was supposed to be a hero, and a foil to the more hardline, and darker Batman.
>>68763345
BvS audience score is at 68% now, lower than any of the others
>>68763095
He's using the imagery to convey the contrast between the perceived and the reality, People see Clark as a god, but the reality is there's a man inside that aura that the world doesn't even know yet. He's basically limiting Clark's interactions to turn him into the most unlikely of self-inserts and using that opportunity to show us the veritable antipode of escapism. He's showing us how difficult it would be to walk away from godhood when it's being offered to you on a silver platter. The allusions to Arthur are to evoke the image of the hero in contrast to the god. Both Bruce and Clark interact with the spear and it takes on dual roles of heroism and obsession dependent on context.
Additional imagery in the film is to suggest the underlying motivations of the other characters. Bruce gets a lot of associations with Ahab to highlight his obsession. Lex gets a mix of allusions and imagery, but by far the most telling one for me was pic related.
>>68763231
I've read these stories. I'm saying that as he's shown in the film, he hasn't yet matured into this guy. This Supes didn't hatch fully incubated and is struggling to achieve this balance and persona.
I'm waiting for the moment Civil War comes out. And kinoposters start dissecting the movie
>>68763143
>badmouthing gaddafi
fuck you supes
>>68763629
And he didn't have to die to reach this balance and persona. Hell, killing Zod would have been enough for him to achieve this balance and persona.
And even in the comics, Superman didn't need to die in order to become the hero the public knew him to be. Let me state this: WB did not rush the death of Superman because of a narrative focus. They rushed it because money. They rushed it, because it would be cool, just as they rushed Doomsday, and the Justice League. You can claim all you want about Marvel playing it safe and being boring, but Marvel didn't have Captain America and Iron Man officially fight straight away. They had squabbles, yes, but the gravitas of Civil Warand the possible death of either Cap or Iron Man, or at least their internment. Who knowsmatters to the audience had managed to pay attention to 12 full movies. And its in padding out the story, and taking time with it, that ahs allowed the MCU to become the msot popular franchise:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_films#Highest-grossing_franchises_and_film_series
Hell, it just beat out James Bond. JAMES. BOND. That has 26 films and years of mainstream.
And yes, you could argue that Marvel's stories are simplistic. But that doesn't mean BvS was kino or deep. It wasn't. And WB sure as hell didn't advertise it as deep or an exploration of themes - they advertised it as some fight night thing. And they didn't even deliver.
>>68763339
.t redditor
>>68763799
In terms of this arc which reaches back to MoS, Superman's death forces the final stage of the internal struggle he's been waging since he became known to the world, and it's not to be accepted as a hero, or a god, or a savior, it's to be accepted as nothing more than a man,
His death and return are going to play a huge factor in his subsequent appearances and it's going to come around full circle to his church scene. He's going to realize that to bypass that god-like air that surrounds him, he's going to have to become a relatable, personable figure. You do that through letting people know you, which is something we've yet to see him do outside his inner circle, his interactions with the military personnel, and that one priest.
>>68763536
Again, the problem is not that I don't see how he tries to heighten his story by citing the classics.The problem is that his story is still shit. You cannot borrow depth from another story, you can only show how yours does in comparison to a great one. In this case, it dissolves.
The problem is not that people don't get how Snyder compares Superman to Jesus, and superheroes are gods and supervillains the devil.
The problem is that it is not an appealing movie. And everything remotely interesting is says has been said better somewhere else.
>>68764123
>Snyder compares Superman to Jesus, and superheroes are gods and supervillains the devil.
And here's where you're missing the point entirely. It's there to convey the perception the people in his world have of him. It's not a comparison.
>>68761677
>I have literally never read any superman comic book ever
FTFY
>>68757586
"No man in the sky intervened to deliver me from daddy's fists and abominations"
20 minutes later Doomsday goes to punch Lex and Superman blocks it
K I N O
>>68764196
Putting it in the words of another anon here:
"The religious imagery isn't there to drub us over the head with "Superman = Jesus;" it's there to remind us that Superman is struggling to find his place in the world as a man when his nature(alien) and environment(Earth) conspire to present him to the world as a god. What is it that makes him "Super" again? Hint: it's not the same thing that makes him a hero,"
>>68764196
So, Dr Manhattan?
>>68763296
>superman doesn't spend 8 pages playing a complex prank on the jumper to teach them a lesson
Holy shit JMS has no clue what he's doing with superman
>>68764393
If he abandons mankind, he's Manhattan. Who is he if he sticks around and finds his public voice?
>>68764196
So, is the movie less hollow with that differentiation?
>>68750087
>>68764517
I'd say it's still hollow
>>68750087
It was a bad movie but I liked it more than Age of Ultron
>>68764517
For me, yes, because it also serves to inform some of the other unspoken motivations in the film.
It also made me re-examine them as a whole and really, truly ask myself "what would I do in his situation?" not just sit back and passively watch the pretty colors for a change.
>>68764389
>with great power comes great responsibility
heard it all before, in actually better movies
>>68764733
How about this question:
What is your responsibility? When is too much? Spidey's never going to be in danger of being mistaken for a god.
>>68764433
Who cares?
This movie was an abortion and you only make false pseudo intellectual praise of it for the (you)s, here's one more you fuck.
>>68764592
There was only one motivation to the film. Make money.
>>68764782
You are however going to be mistaken for a pretentious contrarian.
>>68764867
And you are going to be verified as a close-minded asshole. Fair enough.
>>68764592
I think it's an interesting movie because of all its mistakes, and how epically it fails at its own pretentiousness. The Snyder problem, finally taking its toll on a massive scale.
But if it does something for you - cherish that. Even when it's a bad movie.
>>68764901
I love how "close minded" is always fuckwit code for "doesn't think like me."
But that's fine, you ALSO don't think this way, do you? Its just empty fucking memes vomited on the board every fucking day.
>>68750087
Symbolism does not equal a good film. Any kind of film can shoehorn in shitty symbolism.
Oh sure, he may have tried, but that doesn't mean it's a good film. Just like how you tried to make your parents proud but failed.
So he stole classic literature and wrapped Superman And Batman around it? Sounds like he needed to apply himself.
>>68764113
>>it's to be accepted as nothing more than a man,
That could alreayd be achieved easily:
by fitting in as Clark Kent. Hell, just being used to being bullied, or pushed around, is enough to make him human.
Thats why MoS is the superior movie. And BvS fails it on so many levels.
>>68764977
Ah, my bad. I thought that by dismissing me as a contrarian, you'd opened up the door to character assassination. What if I just call you an asshole, is that better?
>>68765065
Do whatever you fucking want you cancerous turd, you already bring nothing of value with your tired ass Snyder Wuz Deep hguise shit.
Isn't it about time you just fucking accepted the film was at best a pile of average mediocrity and moved on?
>>68750087
I totally got everything he was trying to do, and went for. But the man has ADD, and his editing shows it. They never focus on anything or anyone long enough to flesh them out.
Great script, themes and ideas ruined by a mediocre director and an awful editor.
>>68765044
Yeah, but fitting in behind the hornrims is a bit different than when everyone is viewing you as "alien savior of all mankind."
Jesus v. Jesus: Dawn of Piss Jars
>>68765186
You can't even keep your own shit syraight, "he wins be hummin, but he wins be hummin as supersman toos"
Its almost as if you don't believe a fucki g word of what you're saying and just want more yous to feel validated.
>>68763296
who was he referring to that died?
>>68765160
You know what's absolutely priceless? I have never started one of these threads. I never open up with third-grader insults, and yet, it's always what I end up getting.
I typed out a really hateful response, but chose this reply instead, because ultimately, I refuse to sink any closer to your level than I already have.
>>68765186
Thats where the jumper scene comes in, brah. Superman knows what it means to be human. And it allows him to relate, speak, and coerce the jumper as a human. He could've showed his human side in a truly heroic act that wouldn't require people viewing him as a God.
>>68765277
As if I care if ytou start it, your fucking lies about how much you love the film perpetuate them. You are literal cancer.
You fucking love getting people pissed, if you didn't you'd fuck off with your justifications of this piece of shit film. Maybe it fucking traumatised you that your favourite action figures didn't have a good film attached to them, poor fucking you.
It was shit, move on with your life.
>>68765172
>But the man has ADD
Meaning you, of course
>>68765244
As I recall, it was a childhood friend. The name escapes me, though.
>>68765328
And that's where I believe we're headed. The movies are giving us the evolution into that "jumper" Supes. That's what I'm hoping for, anyway.
>>68765463
In contrast, I believe that MoS Superman could have easily gone into "jumper" Superman. The Death of Superman is very superfluous, and if anything,a cheap move by DCEU to cram in too many plotlines/ideas in an already bloated movie.
>>68750328
Who is this smug mug?
>>68765367
I know you'll never believe this, but I don't. I don't like pissing people off and I hate that I've pissed you off. I'm not doing this for attention, and I'm sincerely sorry that I made you mad.
All I'm doing is my best to defend what to me have personally been a very moving couple of films. I, like Clark, lost my dad right about the same time I grew old enough to see he wasn't the complete idiot I thought he was, so they've sort of taken a special place in my heart, and I feel they have messages at their core that a lot of people could use in their lives. Snyder might not have presented them in a way that's as accessible as maybe they should be, maybe that was his intent, or maybe I'm just flat-out nuts, but I assure you there's nothing mean-spirited about what I'm doing.
Again, I sincerely apologize for making you angry.
>>68765524
With any luck, that's what we'll get in a legitimate MoS sequel.
>>68765645
>Moving
>Special Place in My Heart
You are either the most deluded fanboy in the planet that would eat literal shit if it was branded with Supes Logo or else a fucking cancerous troll. Whichever it is, my pity for you is deeper than Snyder's film could ever hope to be.
>>68765645
>>68765744
Nonetheless, the apology stands.
>>68765848
You are a sorry human being, that much is true. Resorting to "much dad dun died, days why I loves snyder " fucking pathetic.
>>68765915
I thought I owed you some truth and an apology. You got it.
