How come Goku never used the Kaioken again after achieving SSJ?Except in that one non-canon episode in the other world.
And why didn't he teach it to Piccolo or the other Z-fighters?
>>68718756
Except he LITERALLY USED IT in the two latest episodes of DBS
NICE BAIT BRO
>>68718756
Because wasn't it basically SSJ-0?
>>68718777
>>68718783
Oh, I havent seen DBS yet.
The fuck ever happened to the spirit bomb?
>>68718916
Goku used it to kill Buu and Omega Shenron.
>>68718916
It was the most impractical move in the whole series.
>>68718756
Because it's incredily hard to use. You have to have both strong mind and body to do it. If your body is too weak then you might die.
>>68718756
Kaio-what?
>>68718958
Yeah but he was spamming like Kaioken x 40 against Frieza.
Using it normally as a SSJ should've been easy.
Is Gohan in DBS?
Can be fight or is he a pussy?
After all these years, it still burns me how they fucked up Gohans story during the buu saga.
Mystic Gohan should have ended the series.
>>68719049
>be
*he
>>68719049
Here's Gohan after trying to power up after Frieza killed Piccolo.
I miss the old DBZ animation
>>68718777
Why are you acknowledging the existence of DBS?
>>68718783
Was this the series that was QUALITY as fuck? Is it better now, or did it get blurays?
Behold the most powerful being in the universe.
>>68719102
Almost all inbetweens look funny in hand drawn animation.
>>68719103
>*BUHU* Anything new is bad
T. nostalgic manchild
>>68719193
Nigga, have you seen an episode of DBS?
The animation is absolute cancer.
>>68719178
>b-b-b-but it's supposed to look bad
>>68718756
Are you seriously suggesting that DBZ has any kind of consistent inner logic? None of that shit makes any sense.
>>68719099
Jesus
>>68718756
>Piccolo
What, did they put that piccolo dick meme in an anime?
Because the Kaioken did not give Goku as strong a powerup as Super Saiyan and because unlike the SS transformation, the KK was dangerous. Remember, you had to be in perfect harmony or whatever so that the power wouldn't make you blow up and you could only use it in short bursts or some shit.
The SS was better in every possible way.
>>68719177
>>68719221
Sounds like you're just parroting whatever is the hottest meme around shitposters about DBS, it's nothing like the early episodes around king kai anymore
>>68719241
I'm not saying it's supposed to look like that. Inbetweens just tend to look like that because the actually talented artists are doing the key frames.
>>68719153
It's DBS
>they stopped watching because movie retelling episodes had bad quality animation
plebs tbqh
>>68719267
Also, I'd like to point out that Goku used the Kaioken x20 against Freeza and he was only about even for a couple seconds with Freeza's 50% power, so the SS transformation multiplies his power by obviously more than 40x since SS Goku beat 100% Freeza. The SS is just better. Safer, and more powerful. Aside from that: Toriyama probably forgot about it like he forgot many things.
>>68718783
This animation is fucking terrible
>>68719286
Sounds like you don't even watch it or are blind.
>>68719286
No no, Kai was an entirely different beast.
It's so bad.
>>68719397
Are you pretending to be retarded?
>>68719417
>mfw Hit got stronger just from fighting Goku
>mfw a character that isn't a saiyan is actually getting stronger
>>68719417
is that cooler? it looks like cooler
Reminder that anything past season 3 is pure shit
>>68719365
Well to be honest every animation is shit compared to the original GitS
his body couldn't take it
![1JTQVM3[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/W7iMqoa.jpg "1JTQVM3[1].jpg")
>>68718756
Kaioken + SSJ fucks up your body
>>68719724
There has been lots of quality, 2d animation since 1995, but obviously it's used sparingly since it is expensive.
>>68718756
Literally tells you in show you need calm heart like sayian blue not rage like blonde ssj to use it.
>>68719724
>>68719102
>it's a triangle guy episode
>>68719250
people on this board will argue about their head cannon until the heat death of the universe
Because it was literally ssj before Toriyama thought up a better visual flare than 'red and mad'. Go watch the Slug movie I think they even call it ssj in that one.
>>68719724
I'll never understand why they turned the Major into a pasty bull dyke.
somebody explain to me why everybody keeps on saying that Gohan has the highest potential out of everyone?
>>68720241
Because vegeta said it
>>68720241
saiyans get stronger when angry
gohan half human
human very emotional
gohan very emotional human
gohan very angry but only sometimes
gohan very strong but only sometimes
When are we going to get past this U6 tournament and finally meet the villain of this arc?
>>68720379
why have a villain, when they've introduced a pantheon of gods who can't be defeated?
>>68719417
Honest question, should I watch Super? I was curious about the story and started the manga, but each issue need too much time to come out.
>>68719036
>spamming
Kaioken is a mentally and physically taxing move. You can typically only use it's duration for a limited time because the stress of the power boost is too intense and wrecks your body afterward. It's such a tremendous power-up that people have killed themselves by using it because their body and mind wasn't in sync or some shit. Where presumably the body generated too much output without a limiter and then detonated because the body couldn't handle it.
Kaioken was the only means Goku had to close the insurmountable amount of ki Frieza possessed. It wasn't enough to match Frieza even at 50% of his strength.
Kaioken puts too much stress on the users body. Mixing it in with Super Saiyan might kill him.
>>68720241
Because originally Gohan was supposed to be the main character of DBZ, but people still liked Goku.
>>68720241
It's been established that half-Saiyans have a higher potential than full blooded Saiyans because for reasons. Vegeta has said it, raised it and then double downed on it. Trunks and Goten obtaining Super Saiyan, then fusing, and then hitting Super Saiyan 3 at the age of 7 and 8 is a testament to it. Mystic Gohan being the most powerful warrior in all of Z second only to SSJ Vegeto is testament to it.
>>68718756
Serious answer: makers probably forgot, like how they forgot Super Saiyajin 3.
http://www.saiyanisland.com/2013/03/akira-toriyama-interview/
>Akira Toriyama: That’s right, but actually I forgot about it and I thought that was Super Saiyan 2, even though I created those characters.
Seriously, fans put more thought into DBZ than the makers ever did.
>>68721013
The deadlines for mangakas are crazy as fuck. It's easy to lose track of what you have done. Didn't he alsohave the different forms for Frieza because he wasn't happy how he looked or some shit?
>>68721013
No, he forgot about Super Saiyan 2, and thought SSJ3.
It's kind of understandable considering SSJ2 was only relevant in Cell's fight and visually there's not much difference with SSJ1.
>>68721138
>and visually there's not much difference with SSJ1.
More electricity and the hair changes dramatically. Once Gohan became an adult you could only tell he was in SSJ2 through the massive amount of electricity generated. Goku's hair physically changes. Vegeta has no real change beyond aforementioned electricity because his hair never changes.
>>68720241
Highest waisted potential. Goku's deadbeatness is overstated already but that country bumpkin bitch ruined his son before he turned lackadaisical.
>>68718756
I thought the idea was that SSJ was the peak, the ultimate standard, the physical goal. Kaioken was Goku finding out ways to inprove himself for relative amounts of time. SSJ is a level that doesn't need a boost.
>They didn't watch this hype moment
Question anons
Had Guido trained as much as Goku and Vegeta did, no, Fuck it, had Guido used a gun or a knife would he kill everyone?
>>68721100
Either that or his editor didn't like how he looked. His early editor, and friend, was a source of a lot of stuff like that. The two androids at the beginning of that saga were supposed to be THE androids, then his old editor told him that a clown and geriatric would not make great villains so he made new teen androids. Then the editor didn't think that worked either so we got Cell. The initial Cell was too detailed to draw so Toriyama changed him. Editor didn't like that form so he has another new form.
In Dr. Slump this editor appears as himself and is also the basis for Dr. Slump's nemesis. King Piccolo is also based on his editor.
And Toriyama is just really forgetful. Launch completely disappears with no explanation at the beginning of the Saiyan saga because he just forgot her.
>>68719177
don't you mean multiverse
>>68718756
He explains this in Dragon Ball Super
Kaio-ken hurts the user depending on how strong you become with it. You have to have a very strong mind and body to use it to begin with. So using Super Saiyan with Kaio-Ken is literally killing yourself if you haven't perfected it.
>>68721661
Less purple Cells and more cat gods.
>>68721688
It's tied to holding his breath in for some reason so give him a scuba tank and probably.
super saiyan blue is a power gained with calm and ki control so thats the only way kaio ken could work with it
regular super saiyan is gained with rage and just explosion of ki
>>68718783
Why not turning the aura purple instead of that toothpaste mess?
Because it was obsolete. SS outclassed it in every way.
DBZ post cell saga in terms of tv series and post Broly in terms of movies is just fucking retarded and shouldn't exist.
>>68722280
2 separate colours >>> 1
>>68718756
>Spends 3 years training with Vegeta.
>He must have been practicing it.
>Vegeta would not want to be left behind, would have learned it himself.
>Why was Vegeta surprised at the tournament if Goku was training for 3 fucking years and must have seen it.
Why is there new Dragonball shit being made?
Can't Toriyama let shit fucking die already?
>>68722509
The multiverse opens up a lot of potential adventures/fights. Too bad they rushed Super into production.
>>68722509
Toriyama got out for a while but they kept making Dragon Ball shit without him. Now they've dragged him back in. I blame otaku manchildren.
How come he never used the wolf fang fist in all of DBZ?
>>68721661
>>68719417
So Goku finally attained Broly's level of hype?
>>68721661
So many things wrong with this. HITT living for a thousand years and never once extending his time skip. HITT actually being on Gokus level. Why even be an assassin and serve someone else when you have that level of power, probably could have become god of destruction himself.
>>68722836
Same reason why we never see Launch again after the first episode. Toriyama pulled a 'uh oh hotdog'.
Because Toriyama's a hack who caved in to keep Vegeta alive which turned the show into a super saiyan circle jerk and ruined it
>Vegeta dies on Namek
>Trunks never has to be introduced to redeem Vegeta
>No extra Super Saiyans after Frieza
>Goku stays in space while power levels are scaled down to match Piccolo/Gohan
>fights stay centered around technique and abilities for a while longer
>we see Piccolo and Tien use their weirdass techniques from back in the day
>low tier Z Fighters like Yamcha never bumped down to comic relief tier
>Oolong, Roshi and Yajirobe never bumped down to obscurity tier
>they all learn kaioken and weird new shit
>Tien stays third strongest for a while and invents even more new techniques
>Piccolo remains the redeemed villain and organically completes his arc
>Majin Piccolo a thing
I can't believe more people weren't confused watching him blow up planets and slaughter namekians, then be fully redeemed because muh family, muh kakarot after flipping back to evil every chance he got, constantly cowering and begging for mercy and gloating if he got the upper hand. Piccolo was so much better as an anti hero
>>68718777
>>68718783
You know he means back during everything cell and buu saga, superfags
Dragonball super is more non-canon than the dbz movies. Even GT is considered Canon more than super
>>68723106
>tfw you live in the dimension where Piccolo fags were BTFO
based
>>68719153
Inbetweens are always trash. Some of the more egregious stuff is fixed for home release and re-airings. Just like DBZ back in the day. This is the first time such a wide audience is seeing the initial broadcast stuff and is able to shit on it week to week. Also, the new art style makes all the shitty stuff seem shittier.
>>68721138
I honestly think SS2 was forgotten about halfway through Buu saga with how it was animated. Honestly, SS2 just wasn't future proofed. It only worked with Gohan's teen hair and that was only because his hair didn't move for Super Saiyan 1 like it did with Goku. In Toriyama's mind, he probably thinks SS2 was just a maxed out SS1.
>>68721776
We shouldn't have to wait 2 decades for a retcon to an issue that came from Toriyama forgetting his own story. He should do what GRRM did and have a superfan keep track of everything for him.
![Dragon Ball Super - 014 [010AF79D].mkv_snapshot_23.13_[2015.10.12_16.45.22].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/zIaTyt2.jpg "Dragon Ball Super - 014 [010AF79D].mkv_snapshot_23.13_[2015.10.12_16.45.22].jpg")
>>68719177
as if there aren't going to be higher up things
>>68719035
QUACK
>>68723106
Piccolofags are the worst. Goku is the main character. Deal with it. Piccolo should have either never been revived after sacrificing himself to save Gohan from Napa or he should have left for New Namek with all the other Namekians after having finally found his people. Either one would have wrapped up his story arc. Hell, that would actually make for an interesting dynamic: Kami stays on earth while Piccolo leaves to be the defender of New Namek.
All those minor characters staying in the main story after their character arc is over is mostly a mistake. And by the way, Yamcha was a comic relief tier character form day 1.
>>68723922
Is that Super Saiyan Satan-San?
>>68724044
Except unlike Vegeta and Goku Piccolo has two confirmed Saiyan kills under his belt.
![[KamiFS]_Dragon_Ball_Super_-_015_(720p x264)_[10bit]_[C7970672].mkv_snapshot_09.22_[2015.10.19_21.08.28].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/FoJ0FeU.jpg "[KamiFS]_Dragon_Ball_Super_-_015_(720p x264)_[10bit]_[C7970672].mkv_snapshot_09.22_[2015.10.19_21.08.28].jpg")
>>68724048
yeah he used the dragon balls and wished to become SSJ
>>68724102
Bullshit.
> watches latest episode.
![[KamiFS]_Dragon_Ball_Super_-_015_(720p x264)_[10bit]_[C7970672].mkv_snapshot_09.56_[2015.10.19_21.09.46].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/HdOCYpd.jpg "[KamiFS]_Dragon_Ball_Super_-_015_(720p x264)_[10bit]_[C7970672].mkv_snapshot_09.56_[2015.10.19_21.09.46].jpg")
>>68724148
it happened mate
>>68724099
No he doesn't and that has nothing to do with my post.
>>68724044
But then we would have never gotten the best episode.
>>68724102
That's why they call it dragon ball super. They made a wish using the super dragon balls that everyone could become a super saiyan.
>>68723176
I'm guessing that Kaioken is weaker than a super saiyan, but also puts a huge toll on the body
If I interpreted correctly, he only managed to use it recently in super saiyan blue because that form has perfect ki control or something, it otherwise would have killed him
>>68724220
He can still visit for comfy filler episodes.
>>68719417
Why the fuck is his hair blue? Is that some new form of Super Sayian?
Super Sayian Super perhaps?
>Cell has the dna of Frieza and two super saiyan gods
So when does Golden SSGSS Cell show up?
>>68724193
Piccolo killed Raditz and Goku m8.
>>68724332
goku got god ki, so he got a new form called super saiyan god, that had red hair
Goku was able to turn into a super saiyan in that form, which now has blue hair, and was called super saiyan god super saiyan, which was then shortened to super saiyan blue
It's been surprisingly not that impressive so far.
>>68723318
>>68724044
b-but just knocking old characters down a tier to make room for new, less established ones isn't even good writing. Don't you want to live in a dimension where Roshi and Yajirobe are the useless comic reliefs? Krillin and Yamcha don't deserve to be fucking Oolong tier even if they're comic relief.
Is Vegeta really worth it?
>has the upper hand
>gets cocky and toys around, maybe lets villain power up
>opponent gets the upper hand
>uses his PEW PEW PEW PEW blasts that do nothing while screaming
>cries, gives up, maybe begs for his life
>repeat
>I AM THE PRINCE OF ALL SAIYANS
>literally kills his only Saiyan follower/babysitter after finding planet where they can reproduce
>ilu but i don't love u kakarot ;3
>spent like 20 years of his life blowing up populated planets
>FRIEZA RUINED MY LIIIIFE
>>68723922
>>68724102
>>68724177
What the shit is this? Kinda want but kinda vomit too.
>>68724456
jesus what a convoluted mess
how did he get god ki?
>>68724332
Get this, he is a "super saiyan god super saiyan"
Meaning, he went super saiyan while he was in the "super saiyan god" mode
Yes this is how stupid this shit has become
>>68724557
he had to hold the hands of 5 super saiyans (one of which was still a fetus) and basically did some kind of humming power up ritual.
>>68724557
holding hands
>>68724603
>>68724571
truly toriyama has shown his true hack colours
>>68724552
It's pretty garbage desu senpai
Huh. Goku just forfeited.
>>68723176
he explains why in DBS. The newest Super Saiyan form, Super Saiyan Blue, is extremely energy-efficient. The other Super Saiyan forms are not. Goku felt that if he went Kaio Ken while in a previous SSJ form it'd be tantamount to suicide because his body could not take it.
>>68724751
That's because every character in this show is a pussified version of what they should be.
>>68724809
Loved this scene. Get fucked Gohanfags. This is what happens when you don't train and don't care about fighting.
>>68724497
Dragging characters along longer than their stories should is pointless. Hell, Vegeta should probably fuck off to train offscreen in a new universe for a while now that his character resolved in the Buu arc and Goku has absolutely 1 upped him with the Kaioken. Because now his story is just treadmilling and repeating itself. Then in an arc or 2 make a badass comeback. Now he is just in purgatory.
>>68724809
SSJ3 is probably stronger than SSB tbqh.
>>68724859
I wish the future with trunks and hench gohan was the true canon
>>68724859
>>68718756
Why doesn't he just train like a maniac to stack multiple kaiokens on top of whatever the strongest SSJ is?
>>68724557
>>68725018
because it would do this to his body
>>68724911
Nigga's a genocidal space pirate who allowed a monster to evolve and impale his son from the future through the chest and still didn't learn his lesson until a cosmic blob monster tried to kill his son from the present. Purgatory isn't sufficient punishment.
>>68725018
Because OP is a fag who didn't give the explanation from the show. Basically Kaio-ken is too unruly to stack on top of SSJ, while SSB (the blue haired form) is a more balanced use of power.
Basically the drain on Goku's body caused by Kaioken is multiplied along with his power level when he goes SSJ, while it's much easier to control in the new form, though it still fucks him up.
>>68725125
I hate everything about this.
DB ended after the Cell saga.
>>68724911
might be an unpopular opinion but I've hated Vegeta since the Cell Saga. He should've just died on Namek. The more his character is warped around "I must surpass Kakarot" the less I care about him.
>>68725125
No one cares about that explanation because it came 20 years too late.
>>68725248
Cell Saga was definitely the lowest point of his character. He was there just to make the plot move.
>>68725211
Buu Saga was worth it so we could have Goku and Vegeta fighting as SSJ2 and Mystic Gohan, but that's about it.
Buu was just a useful punching bag for character progression.
>>68718756
Why didn't Goku learn devilmite beam
>>68720725
Because nothing actually happens in Dragonball unless the heroes have a villain to defeat.
It's going to happen. The tournament's going to be interrupted by some evil motherfucker who is U6's version of Goku or something.
>>68724571
>>68724456
>>68724557
and you guys talk shit about DBGT.
The most retarded thing in DBGT is like two of the dragons and Vegeta having another relapse. You threw all the cute Pan and SSJ4 Kid Goku misadventures away for this.
Anyone else think the concept of Hit is ruined by the fact that he is so powerful?
Hit shouldn't be powerful. He should just be a perfect assassin. He should just know the perfect way to kill anyone regardless of power levels.
I'd like to think that in his own universe he doesn't even usually kill using martial arts or ki. In his own universe, he should kill using guns and knives and shit. Traditional means of assassination.
Just having him be another super strong guy defeats the purpose of his whole assassin motif.
Is DBS any good? looks promising but i don't wanna get invested in it for it to just turn out as awful as DBGT
>>68726752
Are you really expecting Toriyama to come up with new archtypes after he's used the same ones for 30 years?
>>68726975
Better than Xenoverse.
>>68726975
it's worse than GT
>>68726975
It is pretty trash so far
Riddle me this, Batmen: Why didn't five year old Broly seek out and kill Frieza?
Wait, is "Super Saiyan Blue" the official name of it now?
I thought the official name was Super Saiyan God 2.
>>68718756
Because there's no point in doing it. Super is stupid.
I'm just happy DB is continuing in with Toriyama on helm. Wouldn't mind if it goes on till the day he dies
>>68720155
it's unofficially referred to as the 'false super-saiyajin'
>>68719724
>what is redline
>>68726442
better yet, a gohan who did not stop training.
>Humans getting a powerup
ready for Krillin and Tien to be relevant again?
>>68718756
I always thought super saiyan was a permanent state of kaioken.
>>68727685
Super Saiyan is an ability that's tied to saiyan biology.
Kaioken is a technique created and taught by King Kai. This has been common knowledge ever since the Frieza Saga.
>>68727787
ayyyy
>>68727028
>>68718756
Yeah, I thought from all the Z fighters hanging out with King Kai during the Namek saga, they'd be the Kaioken squad by the time they were revived. That would have been the best way to keep them up to speed with the saiyans while still allowing those cheaters to shine.
Why is the animation for DBS bad? Is it because of the flips?
>>68728118
They get paid jack shit and have to do a weekly show. Animu is also so popular that most of the good studios are busy. Despite this high demand Jap culture still means no one gets paid.
>>68718756
Why do you people posting DBZ threads in /tv/?
He's lived for two entire decades with a bitter hatred for Toei and GT in his heart and it's negatively affected his ability to make things that aren't shit.
>>68728363
Toriyama helped GT. He doesn't give a fuck. He's tired of Dragon Ball and is only doing the bare minimum so that they can put his name on it. Super is so mailed in by Toriyama and it shows.
