GOT show runners have explained Stannis would make an awful King:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWQMqaFm5X0&feature=youtu.be&t=265&user=GameofThrones
>Stannis would be a terrible king, most likely. Because he just lacks a feeling for common humanity over which he is supposed to rule.
>We dont like this character
>we will ruin him
>people still like him
>say he would be a shit king
>please love our mary sue
FUUUUUUUUCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK UUUUUUUUUUU
D&D are butthurt salty cunts
The way they killed Selmy and saying how much they wanted to kill him off is a disgrace
>>67816201
GRRM did a mistake letting that guy in
Fuck this.
>>67815972
GOD DAMNIT LEAVE HIM ALONE HE'S ALREADY DEAD
Dany and Jon 4 lyfe
>>67815972
This was such a fucking misreading of the character god damn.
>inb4 some bs about duh Jews hating noble men or some shit
>sets asides his feelings to do his duty and change westeros for the better
>LOL HE DOESNT HAVE FEELINGS ;^)
>SHITTY KING 0/10
wut
>>67815972
So when does daenaerys die? Stupid cunt.
>>67815972
all the Stannis-bashing they've done is because they decided early that they were going to need to kill him off to prevent the cast from getting too large.
if they didn't have practical and budgetary limitations and if GRRM had finished the fucking books, perhaps they would have done a more faithful version of Stannis. We know he still would have burned Shireen and died anyway so just accept that the show is a disappointment and move on.
>>67816374
hopefully killed by someone she trust
Jesus, did D&D have a Stannis-like bully during school?
Stannis would make a shit King, but it's because he's not willing to compromise his principles to be a more effective ruler. In the books at least, Jaime is the only character with the ability to be good ruler.
>>67815972
They're not wrong.
Kingship is dependent on diplomacy, and Stannis's autism seriously hampers him in that aspect. He would have been worse than Robert.
>>67816426
after the loss of his right hand maybe
>>67815972
What are some good examples of good leaders seemingly without "common humanity"?
>ib4 Hitler
>>67816426
>it's because he's not willing to compromise his principles to be a more effective ruler.
>>67816462
>Kingship is dependent on diplomacy, and Stannis's autism seriously hampers him in that aspect
see: his every interaction with melisandre ever
>>67816394
>We know he still would have burned Shireen and died anyway
It's not so much that it's not in his character to do this (it is). It's more that the way they portrayed was like "lol this is inconvenient, better burn my only heir". They should have made the situation look so bad that the viewer felt as desperate as Stannis was.
>>67816553
Ramsay had 20 good men, senpai. That's clearly something you can't overcome without burning your daughter alive.
>That part where Brienne kills Stannis and we're supposed to think it's justice for poor St. Renly even though Renly was a piece of shit who got what he deserved
My king is dead. He's gone! But he's right there on my back, and here in my heart! He lives on as a part of me!
>strong male character
>let's fuck him up
bravo, Jew&Jew
>>67816553
that's retarded though, why would Stannis further his chances of defeat by waiting when he would be well aware what is in store for him and his men if it kept at that rate?
>>67815972
Wow, no wonder he was killed off.
>>67816725
It's not so much not waiting. It's more the fact that Stannis would use up all other available options long before ever considering burning Shireen. It didn't seem a desperate enough of a situation to warrant that action.
He was only ever a meme. Just the JUST guy.
People vastly overestimate Stannis Baratheon's importance in the series
He was just the cuck brother of a more handsome/powerful/younger Baratheon who Usurped the throne during the rebellion
His greatest achievement in battle was being fucking sieged and nearly starving to death
He's entitled to nothing, yet he acts like it's "rightfully his" even 5 years after every other house has already died settling the war
He begs and borrows pitifully from fucking foreign armies, instead of rallying his own men. That's how little the people of the land believe in him, not even his own brother believed in him, his ally houses won't even support him
To top it all off, he is a kinslayer, kills his own brother, kills ally clans, joins the heathen foreign Satanic religion, uses fucking blood magic to cheat-kill his enemies, disgraces himself and his family by prouding supporting that abomination of a banner (the bleeding heart stag), oh yeah, and he burns his own fucking daughter alive, instead of just defending his fucking camp like a good commander would
He burns his only heir alive just for a few nights supplies to attack an unimportant outpost, and he doesn't even win that battle
And at the end of it all he's still killed like a fucking bitch, because he has no combat skills, his men are fucking wiped out, because he's a shit commander, and he's killed in single combat by a fucking woman
Literally the worst character on the show, a meme character of the highest caliber, Ted Cruz deserves better than to be compared to that stupid cunt
Why can't D&D understand contextual writing? None of the contenders for the throne in ASOIAF can understand the plight of the smallfolk. Davos, Brienne in AFFC, and Arya are our glimpses into their world.
What hacks
>>67817062
I never seriously considered Stannis to be a good rule, but thank you for this post anyway
>>67815972
D&D come off as having the understanding of the story/characters as your typical show writer. It's why shit like Jaime in Dorne (which was supposed to be better than the "boring" Riverlands arc) comes off as cringe fanfic
>>67816657
>>67817062
>His greatest achievement in battle was being fucking sieged and nearly starving to death
except when he destroyed the Greyjoy fleet that raped the Lannister navy to death
and when he rekt Mance Rayder despite Mance having fifty times his number
showfags not even once, you understand the point of contention is that the jew showrunners ruined the character because they didn't like his politics?
>>67816047
Synder school of characterization
>>67816553
>It's not so much that it's not in his character to do this (it is).
It's really not. Stannis took forever to rationalise burning Edric Storm, and he's talked at length about how he's claiming the Iron Throne out of a sense of obligation. What's he going to do if he kills his own heir? Who gets the Throne when he dies? Why would his men keep following him if they know he's a kinslayer with no future? Why would be bring his daughter into danger in the first place?
Melisandre might burn Shireen in the books, but book Stannis would never even consider it.
>>67815972
D&D HATE GENERAL
daily reminder this exists (they are talking about Selmy) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfvVluNxujc&feature=youtu.be&t=1h13m10s
>>67817062
>because he has no combat skills
pro tip: next time you post this pasta, remove that bit
D&D shit on Stannis hard, but he was still shown to be a excellent fighter who led his troops from the front.
Nice pasta tho, you'll definitely bait some autists
>>67817390
If he knew they were all going to die whether he did it or not, I could see it happening, but it would still be highly uncharacteristic
>>67817465
That's why I posted >>67816201
I'm still mad
>>67817062
>kills his own brother
he deserved it senpai
>>67817390
It's one thing to be skeptical over leech magic. It's another to literally be in a snow storm with all of your men starving.
>Why would be bring his daughter into danger in the first place?
Yeah this was dumb.
>Melisandre might burn Shireen in the books,
I agree.
>but book Stannis would never even consider it.
I disagree.
>>67817630
>It's another to literally be in a snow storm with all of your men starving.
He's in that position in the books but he's still holding on to his morals. He's forbidding cannibalism, avoiding human sacrifice and doing everything he can to live off the land (fishing Long Lake to exhaustion).
>>67817062
Stannis is the second most brilliant military strategist after Tywin in the books, he's just a bad politician.
Robert was a good fighter, but a poor strategist who relied on Ned's counsel for decision making.
>>67817768
Yes and he won't burn Shireen in the books because she's literally not with him. I'm just saying it would be in his character if he were to get to a point where it's literally his only option.
>>67817902
No he wouldn't.
Stannis <3
>Published on Apr 24, 2012
>2012
stannis-fags still this ass-blasted
>These pardoned lords would do well to reflect on that. Good men and true will fight for Joffrey, wrongly believing him the true king. A northman might even say the same of Robb Stark. But these lords who flocked to my brother's banners knew him for a usurper. They turned their backs on their rightful king for no better reason than dreams of power and glory, and I have marked them for what they are. Pardoned them, yes. Forgiven. But not forgotten.
Of course D&D hate stannis and selmy. They are white men with a sense of honor, they had to die for he sake of le brown eunuch and Daenarys and brienne, the three most tumblr characters in the show.
Stannis is gonna win the battle in the book btw
>>67817062
Generally speaking people who think Stannis did nothing wrong also think Hitler did nothing wrong.
He's too damn manipulable by hot bitches telling him he's the messiah
Bear in mind that Stannis loves his daughter in his autistic way, still thinks of her as a dead end failure of his line due to her condition.
It is not out of character for him to sacrifice her since he's a pragmatic man first and foremost.
And it has been established that he's okay with burning people if it furthers his goals.
>>67819642
Both are told what to do by a woman
>>67817334
>except when he destroyed the Greyjoy fleet that raped the Lannister navy to death
True
>and when he rekt Mance Rayder despite Mance having fifty times his number
The wildlings are notoriously horrible fighters when it comes to armies, and Stannis had mounted cavalry. This didn't take much, he was just at the right place at the right time.
>>67819904
Nope.
Looks like the overall plot direction is for Stannis to lose, then a revived Jon defeats Ramsay, takes the north and then takes the black again to be the 1000nd commander (the numbering is set up so he gets to claim that number for poetry purposes) and fights the ice zombies.
>>67817813
>Stannis is the second most brilliant military strategist after Tywin in the books
Showfags not even once. Stannis beats Tywin in every aspect of military matters.
Tywin has a great political mind and knows how to spend money, but he lost every major battle during the War of the Five Kings (despite the fact he was given a head-start by attacking first and burning the Riverlands and claiming the strategically important Harrenhal) and used his political mind to end it, NOT with military strategy.
As for Stannis, he knows how powerful every House is. How many numbers they have and how many men they have. Stormlands have 30K, the Reach have 60K and Westerlands have 50K.
Stannis took his 35K~ soldiers to siege King's Landing and he would of won had he not guessed the wildfire trap set by Tyrion as well as the coalition forces arriving to save the day. If it wasn't for the wildfire, Stannis would have taken King's Landing with the Lannisters as hostages.
>>67817291
>not posting the superior 20 good men
>the ones who can help AND entertain Ramsay Bolton
You need to sort out them life issues fampai.
>>67820353
>As for Stannis, he knows how powerful every House is. How many numbers they have and how many men they have. Stormlands have 30K, the Reach have 60K and Westerlands have 50K.
>memorising a few numbers is a great skill
What?
As for attacking KL, that wasn't exactly some gigantic stroke of genius either. It was the right move, but not exactly 3-dimensional-chess levels.
Stannis hasn't shown himself to be an especially good commander. He might be, but I've seen no sign or mention of it - unlike, say, Randyll Tarly or Tywin Lannister who are both mentioned as incredible commanders.
>>67820176
no.
>>67816525
Churchill?
>>67816426
Wrong and you're an idiot. Stannis compromises all the time.
He compromises with relenting with the faith of the seven in favour of the red god. Compromises between Melisandre and Davos all the time. Compromises with Jon, wildlings, nights watch.
In the books, compromises with fucking Mance Rayder because Mel thinks he might be useful.
Oh well. I kind of started to like him too, but at least I still have Danyfu.
Was The Mountain an inherently evil dude?
>>67815972
>Stannis would make an awful King:
I don't know about book stannis but show stannis WOULD have made a horrible king, he was too rigid, undiplomatic and cold to keep a land as fractured as the 7 Kingdoms unified under him. He would have been fighting rebellion after rebellion and the land would have withered, engulfed in conflict.
>he just lacks a feeling for common humanity over which he is supposed to rule.
No, that's retarded, that's just what a regressive leftist thinks makes a bad ruler. Or to be more precise they're confusing effectiveness with "good", to them "good" is some touchy feely bullcrap about being "in-tune" with your people.
Stannis' problem is he didn't have the leadership potential in him to begin with, at least not for a land as vast and varied as Westeros. He didn't understand politics, like, at all, he looked at it too much like a literal game with rules that had to be followed. Like every "subject" would simply stay so because that was their role.
He never understood the value of alliances or mutually beneficial relationships, of friendship and camaraderie. He didn't understand the power those things wield so if he can't understand these fundamental lessons of having power over individuals he could never understand how to have power over a nation.
picture unrelated
>>67820673
Much would point to it, yeah. He appears to be an exceptionally cruel person who happened to also be freakishly big and strong. Power corrupts and all that. Ad that he's a lord, and you end up with a person that has almost complete carte blanche to do whatever the fuck he wants.
>>67820511
Except he smashed the Ironborn fleet, held Storms End against the might of the Reach for a year (when he was 20 btw) and destroyed the wildling host while heavily outnumbered.
Showfags.
>>67820495
>Except he smashed the Ironborn fleet, held Storms End against the might of the Reach for a year (when he was 20 btw) and destroyed the wildling host while heavily outnumbered.
Is that the Green fucking Ranger next to Saurumon?
>>67820775
It's not power, it's heavily implied in the books that he suffers from some kind of migraines that drive him into insanity. He smashed the target baby because it would stop crying.
>>67820794
>Except he smashed the Ironborn fleet,
True
> held Storms End against the might of the Reach for a year (when he was 20 btw)
>sit behind a wall and count calories
>hard
>and destroyed the wildling host while heavily outnumbered.
Again, the wildlings are worthless in a real battle. They have no discipline, and Stannis had mounted cavalry, and took them by surprise.
I've yet to see any strokes of genius from Stannis. He might have them in him, but we haven't seen them.
>>67820855
Sure, gigantism probably caused him to be in constant pain, but many people who are don't go on murderous rapist rampages
>>67820775
>>67820855
Thanks. Just watched the viper fight and it just gets me so emotional. I'm trying to find humanity in a monster I guess.
>>67816525
Roosevelt
Eisenhower
Churchill
Disraeli
Chiang Kai-Shek
Syngman Rhee
Loads of pre-20th century ones
>>67820775
Didn't he have a brain tumor or something too which made him even more crazy?
>>67820673
It's implied hes put into rages from his gigantism which causes severe headaches, and he's on all types of drugs to try and cope with the pain
>>67820962
He "quaffed milk of the poppy like men drink beer" or something like that. I read that gigantism can cause mind splitting headaches, and being 8ft tall means you have gigantism.
>>67816525
Most of your "great" leaders historically don't give a shit about anyone at the end of the day. They just have the personality to make it seem like it.
Bill Clinton is a shining example.
>>67820931
>but many people who are don't go on murderous rapist rampages
Many people aren't giants that can smash a mans skull in their hands.
Have you ever had a shitty job? I mean a real crapfest? One that just left you pissed at the end of the day, every day, without fail? If yes, try thinking it's like that for him ALL THE TIME, so he's just pissed and I mean absolutely livid, ALL THE TIME.
This by no means makes him a good guy, it just doesn't make him some one dimensional boogeyman.
>>67815972
>D&D: Stannis would make a terrible king
>>67816525
Peter the Great
You also need to define, "common humanity", because just stated like that it's a nonsense word.
>>67821083
>Many people aren't giants that can smash a mans skull in their hands.
Oh, so it's like having power to do whatever he wants made him more of a cunt.
Exactly as I fucking said.
>>67820495
Why is CIA there? CIA isn't a good man but a completely hotheaded and incompetent cuck, that's the entire point of his character.
>>67820931
Implying that keeping your garrison which is chewing on shoe leather while the Reachmen are feasting in the sight of your walls is easy.
Dismissing the wildling battle despite the difference in numbers. You seem to completely overlook the fact that Stannis used a brilliant strategy, split his troops into multiple columns and coordinated the attack in such a way that they all stroke at once spreading confusion. The wildings were unable to resist his attack because Stannis set up the attack to be his advantage. You also fail to mention the fact that the wildling host included giants, mammoths and a warg and thir combat value is obvious as they were the only ones able to resist going as far as defeating one of the columns.
You also dismiss the naval victory by overlooking it because it doesn't fit your argument.
>>67821147
I think it was more of a situation where as he was young he pushed and got rewarded for it, the power was more of a consequence than a cause. But overall you're right in
>>67820775
The madness caused by the headaches is probably why he does most of the real crazy shit though.
>>67821223
>Implying that keeping your garrison which is chewing on shoe leather while the Reachmen are feasting in the sight of your walls is easy.
>implying that it takes incredible skill to be hungry
I don't seem to recall any special tactics described in the books, and I read them twice. Maybe you're looking slightly too hard for genius there, buddy.
I'm not saying he's incompetent. I'm saying that "the best" is hard to be. Randyll Tarly is described as the best commander. Tywin is obviously also recognized. I don't recall Stannis being mentioned as a military genius, but of course I could simply not remember.
>>67821223
>and a warg
Didn't Jon kill him or did they have another?
>>67821223
>You also dismiss the naval victory by overlooking it because it doesn't fit your argument.
No, motherfuck, I've consistently acknowledged it. What about the word "true" do you not understand?
>>67820931
He took Dragonstone from the remaining Targaryen loyalists right after the Storms End siege. Keep in mind that Dragonstone is a heavily fortified place and is probably in the top 5 of hardest places to take (Winterfell, Storms End, Harrenhal, Eyrie, Dragonstone)
See Night Lamp theory fr what Stannis plans to do during the Battle of Ice in TWOW. Take this point or leave it, I don't mind.
>sit behind a wall
Its hard when you have the falling morale of soldiers. Women and children to look after as well as making sure they don't get in with the right set up. This lasted an entire year and it was the Tyrells which is what made it so special. They had the largest army and failed to take Storm's End. Credit can be given to the fact that the place is heavily fortified but Stannis took Dragonstone. So it is possible for these things to happen.
The fact that he was with the soldiers eating the horses, dogs, cats and rats inspired the soldiers to keep on going.
>>67815972
>he just lacks a feeling for common humanity over which he is supposed to rule.
Are they implying Stannis is Saber?
>>67815972
Stannis should have been born in a Republic, his personality is better suited to be a servant of the people, a great general, not a king. If he had the vision he could have united the 7 Kingdoms into one republic and been a Westerosi Cincinnatus.
But I guess his thirst for the crown is what happens when your cultural background is princes, kings, and authoritarian autocrats.
>>67821442
>Its hard when you have the falling morale of soldiers.
Why do you cling to this point? Being under siege does not fucking require military genius. It requires for you to sit the fuck tight, and eat what you can. It requires a strong will, and Stannis has that in spades, but just cut the crap about it demanding some huge portion of military skill. It fucking doesn't.
As for taking Dragonstone, I'm not familiar with the circumstances. Could they starve them out? If so, not much is required. Furthermore, laying siege to someone probably isn't what takes most skill or strategy. Obviously it can - Daeny took some city or other by being pretty clever about it - but still.
Randyll and Tywin are recognized for their genius. Is Stannis, and by whom? I'm perfectly willing to accept that he's mentioned as one of >the< best commanders, but you've given me very little. I could say Robb was the best evar, because he never lost a battle. I sincerely doubt he was though. Wouldn't you, too?
>>67821345
Melisandre fireballed his ads out of the sky.
>>67821329
I'm not implying that there was brilliance in his defence of Storms End. Siege warfare is not 'sitting behind walls and eating calories'. If you fancy a read of an historical account of how it works out check out Caesar's account of the civil war in Greece when he was besieged by Pompey. It's a fascinating the chess like game of measures and counter measures.
Tarly might be described as the best commander in the books but you have to take into consideration the POV of the chapter. What is said is not always what is true. Brienne might describe Renly as an amazing king but it does not mean he would make one. In a similar way people might describe wildlings as useless in combat like you seemed to have implied earlier but notice that it's usually done so by the rangers of the NW. Of course they would say that, they fight the fuckers and they try to reassure themselves.
>>67821410
Yes , you typed in true and chose to ignore it in the overall scheme of the discussion.
Also calm down buddy, of you get angry over a silly internet argument maybe it's time to switch off the computer.
Fuck Stannis, cuckold idiot
>>67821666
>What is said is not always what is true
I'm perfectly well aware of this. Next you'll tell me prophecies aren't always straight forward and are often fulfilled in a backward, unexpected manner.
Jon's points about the wildlings are completely valid. They're undisciplined (except for the Thenns), they despise each other, and don't like obeying orders. This makes for a horrid army - one that mounted, ordered, disciplined cavalry can ride the fuck down.
>>67821748
He was many things but not a cuck, his shitty ugly daughter was definitely his and his wife was no one elses cocksleeve.
>>67821740
>Yes , you typed in true and chose to ignore it in the overall scheme of the discussion.
I don't ignore anything. What the fuck are you talking about. I'm acknowledging that he's had that one major victory, but I'm reminding you that this does not prove that he's a military genius - just like Robb wasn't just because he won a handful of battles in clever ways.
I'm still waiting for anything other than Stannisfags creaming their panties over the thought of their god. I have no problem recognizing Stannis as a genius commander - even the best - but I won't do so because "he beat some starving, disorganised, undisciplined wildlings who were caught off guard" and "he had one victory against the ironborn in circumstances we know extremely little about".
>>67821766
One that also has giants & mammoths.
You are also forgetting that Jon often remarks that Mace is the one that glues them together and shapes them into a different force than the one they had faced before. Additionally this wildling army is not on a raid in the green lands, they are fighting for their survival.
The Thannes are not the only ones who can fight on their side as well. Re read the 'sheep, goats and a few lions speech' that Mormont gives during a war council on the fist of the first men.
>>67821410
No you haven't. You haven't acknowledged the fact that Stannis built an entire navy fleet to take on a people who live on the seas. You failed to acknowledge that Stannis doesn't spend time on the seas as much as Victarion Greyjoy.
You failed to realise that Stannis leads from the rear and doesn't have a Valyrian Steel sword and you failed to realise the basic fact that Tywin Lannister had a huge army backed by large amounts of gold and food.
>>67821664
Ignoring the morale boosting, when a castle is being sieged you don't sit the fuck tight and eat what you can. Your supposed to prevent the soldiers from coming in via castle archers to simply throwing stones. Let me repeat that this went on for a year. This means that Stannis had to carefully coordinate every counter attack with his men and also reserve on limited items such as arrows.
>Robb is best evar because he never lost a battle.
And Tywin lost every battle there was in the WOT5K. Stop ignoring that fact.
>>67821748
>cuckold
This meme needs to die. Dumb cunt.
>>67821655
Anyone else think it's weird how The world of Ice and Fire doesn't actually have any republics in it at all?
While the show is shit, I think it should be acknowledged that Stannis was certainly NOT an ideal king. Part of being a king is being able to inspire love, loyalty and admiration, things that Stannis simply wasn't good at. Robert held everything together based partially on his charisma, enough that even someone like Ned (polar opposite of Robert in terms of personality and values) was his best friend.
Stannis also had the issues of: being disliked by both nobility and common folk, no wealth, no heirs, ties to a disliked foreign religion and weak alliances.
As much as people hate it, the truth is that the ideal situation would have been Renly as king and Stannis as his hand. Had they both been able to put their egos aside they would have won the war and been the best duo for Westeros.
>>67821867
And me and other snobs have provided you with evidence itt. You don't have to call him a genius but he is one of the most competent (and arguably the most) commanders in Westeros during Wo5k.
You may continue to ignore this. You have the right to remain ignorant.
hey,uh, guys, any news on WoW? coming pretty soon, right?
>>67821984
It does. There are the merchant republics of the Free Cities. Braavos, Norvos, Pentos and Lorath to name a few.
>>67822007
>is being able to inspire love, loyalty and admiration
do go on
>>67815972
D&D needs to eat shit and die.
They killed Stannis at the height of his popularity and now they'll have to suffer the consequences.
Going out and saying "he would be terrible, so its a good thing we killed him" is the most retarded thing they've done yet.. But their first ever season flying blind is about to air, so they'll have plenty of time to improve their stupidity.
>>67822067
Ivan had shit to back himself up (wealth, alliances, heirs, etc). Stannis has none of that.
>>67821900
>No you haven't.
Except I did.
>You haven't acknowledged the fact that Stannis built an entire navy fleet to take on a people who live on the seas. You failed to acknowledge that Stannis doesn't spend time on the seas as much as Victarion Greyjoy.
I fully acknowledge it. I acknowledged his victory over the Ironborn. What more do you want?
>You failed to realise that Stannis leads from the rear and doesn't have a Valyrian Steel sword and you failed to realise the basic fact that Tywin Lannister had a huge army backed by large amounts of gold and food.
None of this shit was ever mentioned. You can't berate me for not acknowledging shit that wasn't even put forth. You Stannisfags are insufferable.
>Ignoring the morale boosting
Not the same as military genius. Jesus christ.
>>67822011
>You don't have to call him a genius but he is one of the most competent
I'm going to quote myself:
>>67821329
>I'm not saying he's incompetent. I'm saying that "the best" is hard to be. Randyll Tarly is described as the best commander
I'm not going to waste more time on you morons before you give me a quote or some solid arguments as to why the Mannis is THE BEST military commander in Westeros. I'd have no problems with that, but you Stannis cunts are notorious for your over-glorification of Stannis.
>The memory of Fair Isle still rankled in the iron captain’s memory. Stannis Baratheon had descended on the Iron Fleet from both north and south whilst they were trapped in the channel between the island and the mainland, dealing Victarion his most crushing defeat.
I don't know about you but the fact he managed to annihilate Victarion of all people on sea makes me believe he has at least a right to be called a capable commander. Not considering Dragonstone which supposedly was captured while he was commanding the fleet from the Fury itself and Storm's End siege
>>67822007
>Stannis would be a bad king partially because no heirs, so it would be better to have a gay dude be king.
>>67822150
Nothing indicating that book Renly couldn't have impregnated his wife. His homosexuality was more subtle instead of the show bullshit.
>>67822007
>Part of being a king is being able to inspire love, loyalty and admiration
Which Stannis did inspire in the books. See that one time when his own soldiers were killed while still claiming Stannis as the rightful heir to the Seven Kingdoms in a Sansa POV. He inspired loyalty through and admiration for holding a castle for 1 year against a reach army which is extremely large and has been responsible for many of the major victories King Robert had.
>Stannis also had the issues of: being disliked by both nobility and common folk
Nobility? Sure. Common folk? No fucking way. He said he would scour the court clean replacing it with only men loyal to him such as Davos. Look what he's done for them. Men like Davos who have nothing going for them rise up in power for being loyal.
>>67822007
Not sure if I agree. Stannis' lack of charisma (for a lack of a better term) is an existant issue but remember that the common folk pray for rain, long summer and plentiful harvest. This is what inspires people to declare one king better over another. In fact during the devastation of Wo5K the peasants go as far as calling the reign of the Mad King good because of its stability and that motherfucker wanted to torch Kings Landing.
Robert didn't keep the realm together because of his image. He kept it together because Stannis and Aryn worked their assets off in the small council.
I agree with the religion though. This would cerrtainly be an issue although there is a precedent of people accepting weird foreign quirks in the ruling dynasty. After all l they were willing to overlook the whole incest thing when Targa ruled and sister ducking her brother is pretty taboo in Westeros.
Renly would have been a terrible king though.
>>67822031
s-sure thing.
>>67822196
until you realize he named his kingsguard the Rainbow Guard and gave them matching colored armors to look fabulous
>>67822058
>Braavos
Braavos has an elected king that serves for life
>>67817291
20 good lads
>>67822221
The common folk saw him as a cruel man being controlled by a witch who burns people alive. That was sort of the tragedy of his character though, that he did do well by him but they all liked men like Robert (and Renly) who were basically all show.
And Stannis did inspire loyalty in some people, but he didn't do it for the masses. Having Davos on your side means nothing if an entire kingdom doesn't give a shit.
Red viper 1v1s anything and anyone if he doesn't monologue. Debate me.
>>67822143
Ok, let's spin it around.
Convince us that Tarlly is the best commander. Because all I see is someone calling him the best, not any battles he had won.
>>67816316
Danny sucks and her scenes are boring, thank god Tyrion is finally there, at least now something interesting is there
>>67816290
>he's dead
>>67822324
he washes out the cunts of hookers with lye. he is best commander
>>67822318
It's hard to make a comparison between oberyn and characters such as jaime with both hands or arthur dayne, it's clear enough we have no way of saying who would prevail over the other. The way he fought and how he was about to wreck Gregor's shit makes it at least clear he was a deadly opponent and probably a tough nut to crack for anyone in a 1vs1
>>67822324
Amusingly, Stannis himself recognizes Tarly's skill - at least in the show, and I wouldn't be surprised if he do so in the books too, but it's been a while now.
I believe he's mentioned twice as the best, or one of the best. Doesn't really matter. I don't give much of a fuck. You claimed Stannis was "the bestest lyk evar xD" and you haven't proven it. Winning a battle here and there does not a military genius make - otherwise Robb would be a genius. He wasn't.
>>67822244
Again, nothing indicating he couldn't have impregnated his wife no matter how fabulous his men were.
>>67822231
>Robert didn't keep the realm together because of his image. He kept it together because Stannis and Aryn worked their assets off in the small council.
This could be part of his "good alliances" but it also can't be said that he wasn't loved by a lot of important people, which helps keep things unified.
>I agree with the religion though. This would cerrtainly be an issue although there is a precedent of people accepting weird foreign quirks in the ruling dynasty. After all l they were willing to overlook the whole incest thing when Targa ruled and sister ducking her brother is pretty taboo in Westeros.
The thing with the Targs is that they were seen as so separate from everyone else that their own strange practices ended up being unimportant for the masses, and in the end, even that changed as they started following the faith of the seven, all incest aside. Stannis was "one of the people" (not a special Targ) so his own religious practices matter.
>>67822058
>Braavos
Sealord
>Norvos
Theocracy
>Pentos
Prince and autocratic magisters
>Lorath
Council of Princes and autocratic magisters.
>>67822007
>Part of being a king is being able to inspire love, loyalty and admiration
I love how people who are good at being sheep and nothing else like to pretend they know anything about leadership
>>67822143
You constantly imply that you've read the books. Why else would you say (paraphrasing) ''Randyll and Tywin have been mentioned to be good while Stannis hasnt'' when we have no track record for Tywin?
Tywin drowned a few people. Congratulations.
Randyll was responsible for one victory. Wow.
Tywin had Gregor burn the Riverlands. Wow what a great pre-emptive attack!
Tywin couldn't beat Robb despite having the Ironborn invade the North and having an army that is much larger.
Admit that Tywin isn't good.
>None of this shit was ever mentioned. You can't berate me for not acknowledging shit that wasn't even put forth
So you DONT read the books? This explains a lot, child. Go back and start reading the books instead of skimming every page and reading wiki pages.
>>67822456
Amusingly, Stannis advised Robert (in the show) to not go for Randyll Tarly and ended up losing his first battle.
>>67817062
>People vastly overestimate Stannis Baratheon's importance in the series
This desu.
>>67815972
He would be too much of a lawfag to be a proper king. He would have been godtier hand to roberts king.
>but muh arryn
>but muh ned
Robert was a retard.
>>67822541
>Admit that Tywin isn't good.
Admit that it's widely agreed upon that Tywin knows his shit. I see no reason why his political expertise and ability to maneuver people wouldn't carry into the battlefield. Might I be wrong? Sure. I don't even recall a specific sentence that recognizes Tywin's military mind, but I wouldn't be surprised if most people consider him top tier.
Again, I'm not so much putting Tywin and Randyll forth as I'm not accepting Stannis as "the best". Good, decent, competent, yes to all. The best? I've yet to see arguments that'd make him better than Randyll, Tywin, or even Robb.
>So you DONT read the books? This explains a lot, child. Go back and start reading the books instead of skimming every page and reading wiki pages.
Are you trolling, or are you seriously acting this much like a fucking cunt? I stand firmly by what I said. Stannisfags are insufferable.
>Amusingly, Stannis advised Robert (in the show) to not go for Randyll Tarly and ended up losing his first battle.
That's, you know, not relevant whatsoever. "I told him not to go so far west so fast, but he never listened" is proof of pretty much nothing.
I await your non-proof jerk off motions where you feverishly try to spin an action here and there into meaning "omg Stannis le Mannis xD was TEH BEST!".
>>67822456
You still seem to be under the impression you are arguing with one person.
Once again, we have provided you with evidence which you chose to ignore while revealing your lack of understanding of both the source material and basic understanding how warfare works in a 'medieval-style' setting.
Stannis did not 'win a battle here and there', he has a strong consistent record throughout the books and we know more about his military achievements than any other character.
>>67822469
>The thing with the Targs is that they were seen as so separate from everyone else that their own strange practices ended up being unimportant for the masses, and in the end, even that changed as they started following the faith of the seven, all incest aside. Stannis was "one of the people" (not a special Targ) so his own religious practices matter.
That's a very strong case you make here. I'll agree with you here although I would add that perhaps the circumstances of the 'Others' attack might change people's minds as it seems clear that AA reborn will be the one to stop them (I am aware Stannis is not AA but neither is he going to ever sit the iron throne so this scenario is purely hypothetical). I'll admit this is purely speculatory.
>>67822456
>Winning a battle here and there does not a military genius make - otherwise Robb would be a genius.
Robb had hardened veterans from Roberts Rebellion as well as a large selection of good commanders and soldiers who have been through wars twice if we count the Greyjoy rebellion and many are still alive i.e. Brynden Tully, Greatjon Umber, Galbart Glover etc.
Stop trying.
>>67822746
pic related my nigga
>>67822541
The claim: Stannis is the best
The proof: He won a few battles
The retort: He's not widely recognized
This is where we are, and I sincerely doubt we'll move further. It's not my job to prove to you that you're wrong. It's your job to prove your claim is correct, and since you have incredibly little to go by, that'll probably be impossible.
>>67822844
>Once again, we have provided you with evidence which you chose to ignore
>I'll take Shit I never Did for $1000, Alex
Is it that you simply cannot grasp the notion that I can acknowledge positive aspects (which I've done over and over and over) to Stannis without accepting him as my lord and savior? A victory over the ironborn, outlasting a siege, crushing a horribly disorganised, though very large, wildling "army", and taking Dragonstone does not "the best" make. Competent, decent, good, maybe even great, absolutely, no question. The best? I'm still waiting for that evidence, guys.
>>67822541
How would you judge his performance at Green Fork?
I always felt that Tywin was s competent commander if not brilliant. Always using his political judgment as guidance for his military actions. In a way a man who will make sure that he possesses all advantages in his favour by using his political skill before committing to battle.
>>67822958
he was a good strategist and a competent tactician is what you're trying to say.
>>67822746
>Sure. I don't even recall a specific sentence that recognizes Tywin's military mind, but I wouldn't be surprised if most people consider him top tier
Why is that.... You literally have no argument for why people would consider him good. He has a great political mind and had plenty of time to setup the defense against Robb. He isn't that great. You can't even fucking recall the specific sentence?
If its about saying why Stannis hasn't been hyped up as the other two have been, then why say you wouldnt be surprised at him being considered top-tier? Your worse than all Stannisfags for assuming this shit.
>>67822947
>The retort: He's not widely recognized
My retort: ''I have felt from the beginning that Stannis was a greater danger than all the others combined'' - Tywin Lannister
>>67822958
It was a decent strategy but he failed in recognising Jaime Lannister's recklessness.
>>67822947
>with evidence which you chose to ignore
>Shit I never Did
and then you proceed to use this:
>, crushing a horribly disorganised, though very large, wildling "army"
once again.
We have described time and time again how you are misjudging their strength, ignore the pov of characters and taking what they say and describe literally. It really does seem at this point that your idea of 'wildlings' is based purely on the shows portrayal of them.
It's clear at this point that you have some beef with 'stannisfags' and you are attaching yourself personally way too much to this discussion. Time to shitpost somewhere else at this point I think.
>>67823047
Yes. I consider him a good commander through his strength as a strategist. I would also argue that more often than not a strong strategist will prevail over a strong battlefield commander, in fact that was the case in his clash with the young wolf.
>>67823222
>It was a decent strategy but he failed in recognising Jaime Lannister's recklessness.
I would see this more as his personal weakness though. He clearly seems Jamie in a more favourable light than reality which is ironic because Jamie becomes that image later following his death.
>>67823237
>I consider him a good commander through his strength as a strategist.
No you don't, you consider him a good leader. A good commander would gain victory on the battlefield, the difference is subtle but marked. He is a good leader though.
>>67815972
Let me guess, they think Renly "rightful king" Baratheon would have been an ideal ruler. Being a puppet of the Tyrells and a friendly smartass is all that's required, right?
>>67822947
But isn't the point the posters are making that Stannis has won significant battles? These battles did not seem to be "just"a few battles but battles that prove his brilliance.
As someone who has not read the books, they managed to convince me that Stannis was a military genius.
>>67823359
So in this interpretation a good commander is judged purely by his actions on the field of battle during the fighting and a leader by his actions before and after?
>>67823222
>You can't even fucking recall the specific sentence?
As I am not infallible - and I'm not even claiming Tywin is the best - no. Doesn't really matter either.
>If its about saying why Stannis hasn't been hyped up as the other two have been, then why say you wouldnt be surprised at him being considered top-tier? Your worse than all Stannisfags for assuming this shit
The best chess player in the world couldn't win a chess game if all he had were peasants. If Stannis was truly the best, I'd imagine it'd have been mentioned.
>My retort: ''I have felt from the beginning that Stannis was a greater danger than all the others combined'' - Tywin Lannister
That's at least something. Hardly definitive proof, but we're getting somewhere.
>>67823237
>and then you proceed to use this:
Are you implying it's incorrect? The wildlings do despise each other. They're not organised. I fully acknowledge all their advantages - numbers and giants chief among them - but I haven't seen much proof that Stannis' defeat of them was a massive strike of brilliance. It's not described as such. If memory serves, he was "just" at the right place at the right time, charging with mounted cavalry into wildlings.
>It's clear at this point that you have some beef with 'stannisfags'
The only beef I have is that you people have absolutely no objectivity. Your starting points is that Stannis is flawless, and you proceed from there. I dislike dishonesty and bullshit. That's my beef.
>>67817813
> Tywin
> Gets blown the fuck out by a retarded 15 year old for over a year
> Has to have him murdered at a wedding to beat him
> Brilliant strategist
>>67823436
Partially. A god commander will gain victory in the field of battle, that may or may not be accomplished through moves off of it. However since the commander title is a military one and you're referring to victories in civilian circles ending the military manoeuvres the proper title you were thinking of was his leadership ability not his command ability.
New OFFICIAL evidence that Stannis is alive with new Dillane footage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVYulIYUVu0
>>67823648
That would indeed fall within the purview of strategy, yes, that anon is correct.
Whether or not it was "brilliant" though is a matter of interpretation.
>>67815972
obviously he's not the kind of king that would improve social commerce however he would be great to organise a defense and later on an offence on the walkers.
>>67823426
In his and our defence you should know that the books through their use of PoV give us a very selected amount of evidence and information.
Stannis is the one character we see the most on the battlefield through Blackwater and the Battle on the Wall. We also get the description of his performance during the Siege of Storm's End, Taking of Dragonstone, Attack on the Ironborn fleet and the fighting at Deepwood Motte.
Other battles we 'hear' through other characters finding out about them. This is one of the reasons why evaluating Robb's performance is difficult because we know he won battles, we even know the names of some of the places but we do not get a PoV that experiences it.
>>67823497
Stannis' performance at the battle of the wall is remarkably similar to the performance of people we consider 'brilliant commanders' in our history.
Let me try to convince you one more time. First of all he pushes his men on the march from Eastwatch to Castle Black to make it in time. He attacks in the morning meaning that he marched through the night, a feat that needs to be stressed because before the modern times and and the adoption of radio communications on the battlefield night marches and attacks at first light were confusing at best. He then proceeds to attack straight away with three columns in a cohesive manner, once again this is extremely difficult to achieve. By doing so he partitions the wildling force (which is not a rag tag bunch of newbies like you seem to imply) and secures his advantage. Finally when the Mammoths and Giants smash one of his pincers and MAnce seems to be rallying his men he commits his own bodyguard into the thick of the fighting and then we get the 'Royal Banner' scene and 'Stannis x3'. Even after this he continues to push his pursuit late into the day to secure total victory.
1/2
>>67823730
I mean, it wasn't really a 'strategy' but I suppose having the Freys do it and avoiding all implication from popular opinion was a 'brilliant' move.
Emboldening a shitty family to do something shitty because you have money isn't particularly impressive imo, ESPECIALLY when it's to kill a literal retard because he's anally destroying you in actual battles.
>>67823497
>Your starting points is that Stannis is flawless
That just shows how little you seem to understand our admiration of him as a character. We like Stannis precisely because he is 'flawed'. Stannis is not the Steel that Rob was, he is Iron, Hard and strong but brittle. He is a tragic character who had been dismissed and overlooked all his life because of his flaws and 'unlikability' but who has an unwavering belief in 'Justice'.
He is a man who sees his doom in the fires (King with a burning crown) but proceeds to fulfill his duty. We know he is doomed, he knows he is doomed and yet he faces this fact and does what he believes will save the realm.
>>67823666
I meant more along the lines of 'I will not give battle until I can bring as many things in my favour. I will sit in Harrenhal and see Robb's bannermen melt away and refuse to engage until I am sure that I have bled him as much as I can'.
i don't think any house is going to gain control of the iron throne. i think they're all finished
>>67824108
*nodding intensifies*
>>67824303I'm actually wearing my Stannis hoodie right now. Autism intensifies I guess
>>67815972
>implying "common humanity" is a trait that would make a good king
A king is a glorified dictator anyway, and it's not like Westeros is a democracy. The peasants will suffer anyway.
They're right.
They may be hacks but they're absolutely right.
He was the only person who could remove kebab
>>67817062
>doesn't even win that battle
Why are you forming your argument on the basis of shitty fan fiction?
>>67815972
>Stannis lacks humanity guise
Meanwhile Renly blocks food supplies to the king's landing peasantry (the riots in Season 2)
woah......so this...is the power....of HBO....
>>67824679
Stannis among the Northern Clansmen.webm
>>67824732
weak b8, we are all spent already here itt from all the arguing. You won't catch anybody into your nets here fisherman.
>>67816553
I agree somewhat. I don't think Stannis would ever burn Shireen but if they were going to use that route they could have at least made the situation more dire and not show one scene of a soldier's bowl shaking in the cold. They could have included the cannibalism or whatever from the book. Just the 20 good men fiasco burning all the food and siege equipment in perfect syncronicity whilst under invisibility cloaks was fucking ridiculous. Not to mention the whole ''two is not three'' line from the books, Balon being alive here and the failure to show his death really makes show Stannis look awful. These people cannot write, they are hacks. You will know the truth of this next season when they can't rely on Martin 70% of the time.
>>67824739
Not to mention the fact Gurm has even described Stannis as a 'truly righteous man' because he takes the Others seriously. Honestly, kike and kike haven't gotten past the red wedding if they even got that far. D.B. Weiss did not know Samwell was a POV character. I'm not even joking. The average bookfag could make a better Game of Thrones script than they could. Season 6 is going to tank so hard it will be hilarious.
>>67824108
>I will not give battle until I can bring as many things in my favour. I will sit in Harrenhal and see Robb's bannermen melt away and refuse to engage until I am sure that I have bled him as much as I can
Well that's fine but that isn't what he did, what he did is largely end the conflict entirely off the field of battle and then move out to engage no one because the North's and the Riverlands leaders were either dead, jailed, or defected to his side. He didn't really engage anyone after the Red Wedding, it was just mopping up operations although I do see how one could confuse that with the actions of a good commander.
>>67825095
Except the moment he moved out of Harren Hall, he went on to break the siege of Kings Landing and after that he chased Roose Bolton all the way to the Twins. Plausibly forcing Roose to take great losses. No one is saying that Tywin is a great commander or that he ended the war of the five kings on the field; he isn't and he didn't. But he has shown himself to be an able commander all the same; as demonstrated by his formations, his battles his war councils and his appointments.
>>67825507
>he chased Roose Bolton all the way to the Twins
I'm sure Roose was absolutely consumed with fear.
>No one is saying that Tywin is a great commander
You very much implied it which is what this whole conversation is about. You simply didn't understand the connotations.
>>67825507
>Except the moment he moved out of Harren Hall, he went on to break the siege of Kings Landing
Because he had to not because victory was assured. Had he lingered where he was it would have been his own leadership that was killed, jailed or defecting to the enemy.
>impliying corruption isnt killing the realm
Stannis would have cleansed the court and that is what makes a good king
>>67825748
He would have failed at that too.
>>67820719
THIS
They're right but for the wrong reasons
>>67825800
>imprison varys
>imprison CIA
>change pycelle
>profit
With Davos as a hand and after executing Cersei, Jaime, Joffrey and Tommen.
>>67825961
This isn't a modern nation state anon, that wouldn't have done shit in the way of stemming corruption for a feudal society. In fact probably nothing you with your cultural background could think up would have cut it. You probably have to go look something up or maybe think up something fantastical like an order of judges from Judge Dredd or something.
>>67825703
Doesn't matter. We're assessing Tywin as a commander or rather as a tactician. Those points at best put his leadership or stratgic sense into question.
>>67815972
>GOT show runners have explained Stannis would make an awful King:
>implying this isn't yet another piece of evidence that Stannis is the G O A T
>>67826088
>We're assessing Tywin as a commander or rather as a tactician
No we're not. In fact we moved away from that a while ago.
>>67826068
Look peasants my sword glows.
Its easy you kill the lords that are corrupt and make some of your own (exactly like davos) and the realm will be relatively clean >atleast< while you live.
>>67825961
Don't forget that he wouldn't have ignored the Others seeing as that was his entire purpose.
He would probably have returned Winterfell to the Starks to honor Ned in spite of Robb's rebellion.
>>67816462
>Implying Stannis didn't unite all the Northern tribes to come fight with him
>Implying Stannis didn't dace with Big Bucket Wull
It's like you never read the books
>>67826266
>you kill the lords that are corrupt and make some of your own
nd when you start doing that there will be rebellion after rebellion degrading the 7 kingdoms into a constant state of warfare further exacerbating the economic problems in the realm. You keep thinking the lords in Westeros are ordinary subjects just like Show Stannis does, you fial to realize each fief is basically a little nation unto itself you need to convince to go along with your plans not force it.
>>67826290
Yep so you only have two "big houses" to delete as probably Dorne will dont give a fuck or even get happy with the head of tywinn
>>67825961
> Eunuch escapes and plots your demise
> CIA rots and the crowns finances collapse
> The Citadel and the order of the maesters now hate your guts for unilaterally removing their appointee
> ???
> Profit
>>67826379
Im pretty sure that in the current of westeros some important houses in the reach (like hightower for example) would be pretty stabilizing.
North and Riverlands are not as corrupted, Dorne is really isolated.
This leaves the West as probably to rebel as you say, but they are then in low numbers.
>>67826560
>CIA rots and the crowns finances collapse
He wasn't a good economist to begin with he just kept borrowing money.
>>67826584
You don't understand a feudal society at all anon. The North might not give a fuck due to laws being basically unenforceable up there anyway but all the other lords paramount face the exact same problems the decentralized system inherent in a feudal society has. You cannot simply enforce a "no corruption" law on your enforcers, you start killing houses for corruption and the one's you don't catch start organizing to kill you and anyone that supports you.
>>67826560
I really think Varys would have been killed in Blackwater.
CIA economy is shit, I can perfectly see Stannis with hard austerity, selling crowns and some other retarded things like that to pay the Iron Bank debt (as the lannister one will be wiped)
You can really get some arguments against pycelle that could make the citadel remove his chains.
Its when people accept corruption as necessary that it becomes necessary.
>>67826820
>with hard austerity
....Yeah that royal social security is a real drag on the economy.
>>67826820
>Its when people accept corruption as necessary that it becomes necessary.
There's a difference between thinking something as necessary and it being inherent to the system it exists within. You can't have a bunch of guys with near absolute power over a square of land and then just expect them to be pillars of virtue.
>>67826608
He was good enough. He borrowed money which he then invested. He lent out money too and used those loans to pay for earlier loans. Spinning a complex web of creditors and debitors and scamming the crown out of some money along the way. Not to mention that his accounting was needlessly compex. He created an economic bubble and removing he would cause it to burst.
>>67820511
They carry on about he's a brilliant commander a fair bit in the first book and the first season ass IIRC
>>67826865
Idk men you dont need a 10 ft carriage to move in kingslanding, you dont need jewelry, feasts, jousts every month and the list goes on
>>67826983
>He was good enough.
No he wasn't. His whole plan WAS to get the crown into a hole of debt it had no hope of ever getting out of. Keeping him on as a treasurer would not have ended in the crown being less in debt.
>>67827049
That's not really austerity though, that's just not being an extravagant cunt.
>>67826959
>opinions are fact
Being a pillar of virtue is basically a rule for being nobilitas
>>67827049
>you dont need a 10 ft carriage to move in kingslanding
Those peasants are awfully rapey anon. I think a 10 ft fully enclosed and guarded carriage can fall under the category of "necessary to protect maidenhood of female family members.".
>>67821007
Can you point to where it's implied friend? Would just like to see.
>>67827138
>making people autocrats of their fiefs won't corrupt them
>i-it's just ur opinion anon
Ok anon.
Keep glorifying the make believe actions your dead fictional charcter won't ever do outside of your fanfic 12 guys read.
>>67827203
>friend
Don't call him a friend when you clearly meant "fucking faggot fuck, I hate you so much I hope you die".
>Would just like to see.
...Yeah faggot, I'm sure that's exactly what you want. /sarcasm
>>67827188
Why Cersei needs one then?
>>67826820
Varys survived releasing Tyrion. By hiding in the mazes of the Red keep. He could survive Stannis' occupation of Kings Landing much the same.
As for sacking CIA, Stannis needs to pay his mercs and standing armies. This is an immediate concern. If he doesn't meet his obligations to them they riot. And he can't disband them after taking Kings Landing because his enemies still have troops in the field. Forget the jewels and jousting; war is a costly buisness.
>>67827366
so she can transport her court maidens and out of town visitors when she needs to, she's doing important diplomatic shit anon. You can't just have important visitors from the free cities getting raped willy nilly, it's uncivilized.
It'll make them look weak in front of the Braavosi.
He would be a shit feudal ruler, niggas would overthrow him in no time.
>>67824784
>Stannis among the Northern Clansmen.webm
kek'd
>>67817813
>marches to besiege a city with enemy armies in the field
>gets smashed
>fails siege warfare 101
What would he have done even if he took the city? Fucking withdraw to Dragonstone or die because he can't feed it and would probably be besieged by the Lannisters and Tyrells with Tommen as the new king.
>>67827696
He controlled the bay so he wont starve.
Literally all of the youngest generations of lannisters dead or captured.
Also without the Red wedding the lannister couldnt march to kingslanding. Something he wasnt able to know
>>67827696
>because he can't feed it
Enter feudal politics, he had the second strongest house in the Reach on his side and with King's Landing and the pretender's heads on pikes it's reasonable to assume parts of the reach would have defected, with the Storm Lands behind him to boot. So feeding it wouldn't have been a long term problem.
>>67827882
>He controlled the bay so he wont starve.
Where's he going to source enough food to feed a populace of 500,000 that's already starving and on the verge of revolt.
The Lannisters did march to King's Landing. Robb was still in the West, Robb hadn't even guilted Edmure into the betrothal yet.
>>67827299
>>67827986
FUCK YOU!
>>67827886
The Tyrells and Tarly put all the Florent men to the sword as soon as they return to Bitterbridge, as well as the rest that went over to Stannis, Tommen is alive, why will Tyrell vassals go over to Stannis now, at Storm's End there was a sudden power vacuum and the next closest Baratheon claimant was Stannis but he simply isn't an attractive option to get people to just swear for him beyond that.
>>67815972
They're just mad dillane doesn't like GoT
I don't mind Stannis, but he seems kinda limp dick'd a bit useless. Also he's being manipulated by a whore witch.
>inb4 muh god of fire
Nice try.
>>67816352
>and change westeros for the better
Care to elaborate on this?
>>67815972
I can't wait til our TV shows are written by fucking AI computers so we don't have to deal with shitty writers putting in their own interpretations and changing shit. Its self important bullshit and if I was GRRM I would have raised hell for dragging the IP down.
>>67828103
>why will Tyrell vassals go over to Stannis now,
Because he holds the Iron Throne and is now the only candidate for king.
>but he simply isn't an attractive option
He's now the only option. Tyrells might go independent but again you're judging Stannis for his actions but they're reasonable if you see it from his perspective
>>67817062
/thread
well said
>>67815972
Its okay to have your own political views and opinions but changing shit around and ruining a character because you disagree with them is fucking childish and stupid.
>>67828194
What about Tommen?
>>67817291
uh uh
it wasn't the 20 good men that burned down his camp, it was the god of fire. watch the scene again.
>>67828249
He was going to get poisoned by Cersei.
>>67828276
Welp, literally forgot that I was arguing on /tv/
Was being a bookfag.
>>67828276
That was a shitty D&D fanfiction. Tyrion made sure Tommen was out of town when Stannis came a knocking.
And then there's still Myrcella in Dorne.
>>67828390
>That was a shitty D&D fanfiction.
Well that fanfiction is all that matters on /tv/.
>And then there's still Myrcella in Dorne.
Please, they would have slit her throat and sent her head to Casterly Rock.
>>67828446
The arabian beauties, the sand snakes
>>67817062
>killed in single combat by a woman
He was bleeding to death on the ground. How is that single combat? You retarded nigga? He also didn't die like a bitch. She gave him his last words and he said go on and do your duty. Stannis is based
>>67828446
> fanfiction
> mattering
> pick one
We were talking the logistics of keeping and feeding a major city just moments before. Clearly we're beyond the scope of anything those hacks would think to consider.
>>67815972
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8m0Ux01BAjI
>>67817465
Their arrogance is all the more obnoxious seeing as they actually did make a horrible mistake with Barristan's death. Not even that they killed him - the manner in which they killed him was disappointing and annoying.
>>67823718
The fuck are you saying they said she killed him.
>>67823718
>" ... and Stannis is ultimately killed by Brienne."
>" ... is only matched by killing this man."
>"I think Brienne showing up to kill him was almost like a welcome relief."
Selmy's death was perfectly fine. The greatest knight in Westeros dying an ungrateful death is in tune with the rest of the series. Book purists suck my dick.
Also Stannis is a fag.
>>67817062
nice pasta
>>67820511
Stannis' specialty is naval combat, his routing of the Iron Fleet in the Greyjoy Rebellion was pretty good.
KL was saved because Stannis is shit at diplomacy and Tyrion
>>67821984
Where there any republics in medieval Europe?
didn't think so
>>67815972
He would make a terrible king because he is a fictional character and modwrn day society does not support monarchies as often as they once were
>>67831260
Trade republics of the hanseacratic league, genoan trade republic,venice, amalfi, pisa, friesland, switzerland and many of the autonomous city states in the holy roman empire
Smartass
>>67831260
Half of essos are republics
>>67815972
>he lacks feeling for common humanity
FUCK YOU
>>67822280
Braavos doesn't have a king, it has an elected Sealord who is among the merchant class. At no point does it suggest it's monarchical. It's based on the Doge of Venice.
Volantis and other of the free cities (Pentos not included) are basically Republics as well.
>>67816201
THE GREATEST KNIGHT OF THE SEVEN KINGDOMS
FELLED BY A DOZEN UNTRAINED PEASANTS WITH KNIVES
I CAN'T REE HARD ENOUGH
I haven't watched since season 3
Is he still cool bros?
>>67832712
Oh he is cool alright.
He is buried six feet in snow
>>67832221
>are basically Republics
No, some have councils but their councils are at no point suggested to be individuals elected by even a large portion of the populace, at best they're oligarchies with similarities to republics or republics in the loosest most technical definition of the word.
>>67821442
>Winterfell harder to take than Casterly Rock
Yeah it takes 15 people to do it, kekkle
>>67815972
>Because he just lacks a feeling for common humanity over which he is supposed to rule
I haven't been big on got for a while but just from layman's perspective that was one of the dumbest things they could have said. That sounds like the excuse a 3rd grader came up with when they wrote a book report, even worse than that actually. Even from the show you can assert that Stannis has a great deal of humanity within himself, humanity he sacrifices (especially in the show) in his journey to become king in order to return peace to the realm. It's like saying Usain Bolt doesn't know what walking is like because he's running, no shit wait for him to finish.
