Help me to better understand my problem with Batman v Superman and man of steel. I like dark movies and love Batman: Begins and the Dark Knight, netflix Daredevil and jessica jones. I dislike most Marvel movies, too many jokes.
So I should at least like the atmosphere of Batman v Superman and man of steel, right? No, I don't. And I do not know why. Only that something is wrong,
>>67809101
>I dislike most Marvel movies, too many jokes.
I bet you hate Commando too, faggot.
Then the problem is you and we can't do anything to help.
>>67809101
It's because everything is dark, including Superman, who shouldn't be. If there was some contrast between the two characters it might work.
its because everyone is an asshole in the movie.
>>67809151
You have projected your expectations onto a film which is not doing what you have decided should happen, therefore you don't like it for not being what's in your head.
>>67809151
fuck of fagget the best comics of superman are dark. i read muh comics
>>67809101
It's because it doesn't do anything with the dark other than make things angsty like a 14 year old.
Is Luthor scary or complicated? No, he's rambling and incoherent.
Do we feel the weight of superman's troubles? No, we just see a furrowed forehead, and gazing moodily.
Do we believe Batflecks struggle with the threat of a god that could kill everyone if he went bad? No... although Affleck is actually pretty good the script never sells the idea.
Nothing about the film actually uses the 'grim and gritty' setting for anything more than window dressing. There's no spark, no character, no involvement. It's mature in the sense of what a 15 year old thinks mature is.
Man of Steel is just too dark and gritty when it's not necessary. Not everything needs to be so damn broody. Superman's costume opposed to Batman or Daredevil is colorful, it has the same colors as the american flag, he's supposed to be heroic and inspiring. But the movie features massive destruction all at the expense of Superman where many innocents have had to die. BvS has yet again the same shit, the dark broody stuff works for Batman and that's the only thing that people have been talking about positively. But that shit doesn't work for Superman, not to mention the ton of other shit in that movie that doesn't make any sense.
its because the movie has 2 colors.
grey and gray.
For me it's because everything is LITERALLY too dark. The colours, even the fucking sun looks like it's been toned down. It's all grey and/green/blue. It gave me a headache when I left the cinema.
Also Batman was the only good thing in the movie, but even he can't save it from being meh.
>>67809220
>You have projected your expectations
Yes, if the title says Superman, I have expectations of what I'm going to get.
>>67809101
Have you sat down to watch man of steel and just take it in? You may not enjoy it by the end, but I think it's fair to say you'll see it differently from how people misrepresent it here. Also, maybe you should keep in mind that it does intend to portray what would happen if superman actually existed
>>67809101
Jessica Jones was utter shit. Feminit propaganda and exactly zero likeable characters
>>67809101
Because the atmosphere is too smart for you. You just don't get it. Pray in the name of Snyder so he may open your eyes to the awesome reality.
>>67809101
>love Jessica Jones
Shitty taste, obviously you wouldn't like MoS and BvS. And I'm not even talking about the diversity in it (lesbians, interracial).
Jessica Jones was just shit on a script level, with the Purple Man being the only good thing in it and just for about 3~4 episodes. The fight choreography is laughable, the script is like any woman-driven TV series ever, the photography is shit, the plot doesn't advance organically, the characters are one-dimensional.
Netflix Daredevil's is also steadily declining in quality, but it's still good.
Stick to your favorites, though, don't try to get stuff you're clearly not made to get. There's nothing wrong with liking more popular stuff.
>>67809383
>Feminist propoganda
lmao what? How?
>>67809383
>Not liking based Kilgrave
>>67809220
>>67809311
The problem is that the character is just a vessel for storytellers to tell many kind of stories. You seem to only be ok with one kind and think others are just not "your Superman".
>>67809244
indeed. and when Snyder's called on it, what does he say? "It is what it is." like a 15yr old.
>>67809308
>t gave me a headache when I left the cinema.
That's your mind being blown, anon. Kino will do that.
>>67809244
It was sort of mature for the first 40 mins or so, then it throws it all out of the window with lazy writing, unnecessary action, a giant monster and destruction which is the reason why this movie happens in the first place.
>>67809101
Because they're horribly paced and miserable. Nolan's Batman trilogy was dark but it had good pacing and there was a bit of banter that lightened things up a bit. In Snyder's world there's no humor at all except for Granny's peach tea.
>Batfleck branding people
Utterly retarded. Totally out of character for batman. I walked out when I saw this.
>Alfred is suddenly an engineer
Utterly retarded
>>67809765
>>67809499
>Strong independent womyn fighting controlling patriarchal white male who is the definition of the so-called "rape culture" with nice guy mannerisms to boot
>Males in the show, with exception of Cage, are either predatory or dumb
>Women are either saints or troubled souls searching for redemption
It's like you did not read any articles about the show where creators explicitly labeled it as feminist show.
>>67809517
He was very entertaining and interesting villain, but not exactly likeable
>>67809237
you better switch to real literature, manchild
>>67809101
>Man of Steel
The first hour is a dull slog and the last 30 minutes are excessive CGI action bullshit.
>BvS
The first hour introduces a lot of questions but none of them are ever answered because in the third act the movie devolves into excessive CGI action bullshit.
The biggest problem with both movies is Snyder made Superman into an unlikeable asshole. I'm not really a fan of Superman but I prefer kind, heroic Superman over gloomy murderer Superman.
>>67809237
But Superman has always been a a shining example of heroism. Even in the darkest comics he's that. Snyder's asshole Superman is pretty much a completely new take on the character and it fucking sucks.
>>67809311
That's your mistake.
>>67809765
>Totally out of character for batman.
Literally half the plot of the film, resolved by the end.
>>67810170
Weak as fuck bait
>take the symbol of hope
>turn him into a brooding, self-doubting asshole
>HAHA LOOK THERE ARE 38 DIFFERENT CAPESHIT TREADS ALREADY BETTER MAKE A 39TH ONE
>>67809855
You're doing the same thing Sarkeesian does with videogames.
Stop.
>>67810651
Too bad I walked the fuck out.
Literal 0/10
Unlikable grimacing assholes being shit to one another.
MoS was great though, despite Superman being clinically unlikable in the movie.
>>67810087
what? the first half hour of MoS had the best scenes of the film. the prologue was a bonkers Kyptonian sci-fi ride a hell of a lot better than the rest. to be frank, Snyder's Superman is Superman in Name Only. from now on i'll refer to him as SiNO.
>>67810698
All Star Superman is probably the best depiction of Superman in modern times. really a great story, heartfelt, and should have defined the character for a cinematic universe. instead we get Snyder's sophomoric take. ugh.
>>67811137
>instead we get Snyder's sophomoric take. ugh.
And he has the gall to lift the Jor-El monologue from the final issue
>>67811183
Jor-El's monologue really did elevate the film, though. i wonder, did Morisson get any credit for that or is that waived due to for-hire work? anyways, i doubt we'll see this version of Superman for a while. maybe in a decade or so. Maybe not.
>>67811050
Fuck off back to 2009 Mr Funnyjunk
>>67811137
>from now on i'll refer to him as SiNO
Nobody cares, you greasy fat slob.
>>67809523
You're obviously 14 and probably enjoyed the edgy Injustice shit and New 52 garbage.
>>67811336
Fuck off back to the short bus, retard.
>>67810802
It's one thing to "find" unexisting sexism in videogames and another to call feminist propaganga for what it is
http://www.avclub.com/review/marvels-jessica-jones-hard-boiled-feminist-neo-noi-228436
>>67809101
Why don't you just, watch some of the reviews of the movie:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Jgpihpnv3Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJTixNDVl8g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFTnOHp6ArA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xKItdQEPW8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGsrMaxx8N4
Note that 2 to 3 of these reviews don't outright hate the movie.
People tend to jump on the critics, but they should read the reviews to see what ahs been agreed. Its not just the "muh dark superman"or "muh batman of murder"tone. The real problem is the poor editing and bizarre choices. Granted, some smart anon on /tv/ can unpackage each scene and show what Snyder may have been thinking on paper, but, on screen, it just doesn't translate well.
>>67809743
The first half hour had definite promise. I saw it after all the feedback (I was curious) and was genuinely thinking it was going to be better than I expected.
Then it just failed to make anything of that decent start. And plot holes, plot holes everywhere.
>>67811383
Calm down. Besides, I thought we weren't allowed to use image macros anymore?
>>67811594
>And plot holes, plot holes everywhere.
Name some.
>>67811137
>NOT MUH SUPERMAN
>>67811583
I like you anon. I don't mind informed critics.
What do you rate the movie?
>>67809765
I hated the movie, but both of these reasons suck.
>>67811594
Not plot holes, just a lot of omitted information. Learn the difference.
There is nothing wrong with liking superhero movies.
>>67809151
I watched the RLM critique and they said this too. I immediately had three thoughts on the matter:
>Superman was "dark" because he lives in a dark world and bears a heavy burden. This is what the opening scenes were about, and there is even dialogue to support it.
>Millennials are not enjoying the gritty realism and mature themes of superhero movies that Gen X demands of their childhood pop culture (notice I didn't say "heroes"?). Like MLP, you want to "watch" things so that those things will make you "feel good", and you'll even say so. Your pop culture is not a representation of your identity, it's just another form of media that you pick and choose
>The idiots at RLM need to drop the "Half in the Bag" schtick and stop doing videos while they're high. They sound like giggling 8th graders.
TLDR: Millennials and younger don't want Bruce Wayne, they want Billy Batson
>>67811658
Sure. If you can help me out here, I'd appreciate it.
Why was WW after that photo? She knew what it was beforehand, but it was a digital copy she wound up getting back. She's not destroying the original so what exactly was she after?
Batman just decides to stop hitting superman after he says Martha... why? I get that was his mothers name too, but that just gets rid of his motivation to fight how?
And what exactly was that motivation to fight? Suspicion that superman might one day turn? That's pretty weak - and to switch from having been convinced of that enough to end him over to 'lol no best of mates now' was a bit of a head spin.
Batman goes to save Superman's mother - he promises to do that in ten mins with no knowledge of where she'd be? He got lucky with Alfred but I mean come on.
Not to mention - what exactly was Superman doing in that time? Think about it - Luthor said goodbye, got in a helicopter to fly back to doomsday. Superman is a lot faster than a helicopter. Superman knows exactly where Luthor is. When he arrives, batman has saved martha. If it took Luthor about ten mins (the length of the fight) to get back to doomsday it shouldn't have taken superman that long. The fuck was he doing in that time? Why wouldn't he have just gone to save Martha himself? Why not send batman to confront Luthor?
What was Luthor's plan? Assume that either bats takes out sueprman, or superman takes out bats - Doomsday is still coming. Then assume Doomsday kills them. Doomsday is now... on earth and presumably going to kill everything. Was that what he wanted?
Actually, what did Luthor want full stop? Why was he doing anything? I still couldn't figure that out. He doesn't say at any point and seemed to just be doing shit...because.
>>67809855
>>67811385
This and this so much. I wish those marvel cucks would fuck off to reddit with their whiteknighting and quips.
>>67811923
>I am so mature because I want everything to be dark and gritty
No, just no. There are characters that are dark and their stories are sombre, Superman is not one of them
>>67811583
I think that's why the 30 minute longer film will be great!
>>67811689
Personally. 6/10. Maybe..... 7/10 for its best bits. But the worst bits really deserve it a 4 to 5.
You see, I can't outright hate the movie. The bits where Batman & Lois were uncovering a big conspiracy? It felt like a good callback to Watchman. That Senate eharing, while implausible, was a good reminder that Superman was fallible - he was so focused on the hearing that he didn't pay attention to the bomb. Its a lot like the scene in Watchmen where Dr. Manhattan let a pregnant woman die. Then there was the Doomsday fight. Even the Flash time travel sequence was not bad.
But its marked by a lot of really, really stupid moments. To name a few
(1) DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING
(2) The Batman dream sequence. The omega symbol felt forced. The demons will make no sense to anyone who haven't read the comics. Even if it worked as an allusion to the painting Luthor had, it still feels out of place if its a depiction of Superman as evil overlord. He could've gone either pure Apokolips takeover, or pure Injustice Superman
(3) The rather forced clips of the upcoming Justice League. It didn't build hype it just makes me thing thats very presumptious that WB would assume I care for these other heroes. Which I don't (except for the FLash. and my fave Flash was Jay Garrick)
(4) Doomsday. OKAY, the fight WAS good.... but I still think Doomsday could've been saved for a later movie
(5)The death of Superman. Too early? I think so - I feel like I haven't connected enough to the character.
and (6) Poor editing. Jump cuts to unrelated scenes.
Again, I can't hate the movie, but, I definitely understand why the critics disliked it. And I don't really agree with the rather forced capekino meme. To me, BvS tries to hard to be Watchmen, but Watchmen worked as a one-shot deconstruction of the genre. BvS should've been more like the Avengers, which was what worked for the MCU.
>>67811950
>Batman just decides to stop hitting superman after he says Martha... why? I get that was his mothers name too, but that just gets rid of his motivation to fight how?
Uh yeah? His parents dying was a traumatic event, that literally led to him becoming Batman.
>And what exactly was that motivation to fight? Suspicion that superman might one day turn? That's pretty weak - and to switch from having been convinced of that enough to end him over to 'lol no best of mates now' was a bit of a head spin.
Did you watch the first half of the movie? It shows Batman's reasons for this, and his growing paranoia, with that "dream" being the peak of it.
And then when he realized he was about to be a murderer (after the initial shock of hearing martha) and was going to let a man's mother die, he decided to help him.
>Batman goes to save Superman's mother - he promises to do that in ten mins with no knowledge of where she'd be? He got lucky with Alfred but I mean come on.
That's pretty believable. Batman has a ton of surveillance equipment.
>Not to mention - what exactly was Superman doing in that time? Think about it - Luthor said goodbye, got in a helicopter to fly back to doomsday. Superman is a lot faster than a helicopter. Superman knows exactly where Luthor is. When he arrives, batman has saved martha. If it took Luthor about ten mins (the length of the fight) to get back to doomsday it shouldn't have taken superman that long. The fuck was he doing in that time? Why wouldn't he have just gone to save Martha himself? Why not send batman to confront Luthor?
Yeah, he could've taken down the helicopter. He also could've just killed Luthor on that rooftop. It doesn't matter, because if he didn't kill Batman, Marta would be torched either way.
>>67811950
>>67812314
(Cont.)
>What was Luthor's plan? Assume that either bats takes out sueprman, or superman takes out bats - Doomsday is still coming. Then assume Doomsday kills them. Doomsday is now... on earth and presumably going to kill everything. Was that what he wanted?
In the dialogue on the rooftop, Lex said "Soon, everybody will know". He wanted to taint Superman's image for the whole world.
>Actually, what did Luthor want full stop? Why was he doing anything? I still couldn't figure that out. He doesn't say at any point and seemed to just be doing shit...because.
Well yeah, he's insane. On the rooftop, he hyped it up saying "God vs man, day vs night, black vs blue, fight night". He wanted a really good fight.
>>67812127
I like you anon, and I agree with you on most thing but
>BvS should've been more like the Avengers, which was what worked for the MCU.
It's just cringeworthy and makes me somehow furious knowing that DC will just say fuck it quips every 10 seconds let's make silly scenes no more blood in our movies and basically every fucking movie ever will look the same from now on just to cater to critics.
Listen lads, I've been on 4champs long enough to know that once you get to the point of trading itemised lists of arguments it's all over, nobody's having fun any more, nobody's leltrolling anyone, everyone involved is just mad, so if I were you lads I'd just take a bit of a break from the computer about now.
>>67812480
>>>9gag
le 16yold lad
>>67810696
It's true. Name a popular Superman that's as gloomy and unlikeable as Snyder's. Protip: you can't.
Threadly reminder that if all of AoU's reviews were 6.1/10 and all of BvS' were 5.9/10 AoU would be 100% and BvS would be 0%. It's a rating system for kikes and gays.
>>67812127
>(1) DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING
Meh, it wasn't that bad.
>(2) The Batman dream sequence. The omega symbol felt forced. The demons will make no sense to anyone who haven't read the comics. Even if it worked as an allusion to the painting Luthor had, it still feels out of place if its a depiction of Superman as evil overlord. He could've gone either pure Apokolips takeover, or pure Injustice Superman
The dream is left open to interpretation by the audience. It helps explain Batman's motivation to take down Superman by showing his paranoia. Then, when the Flash movie or Justice League comes out, people will go "Ohhhhh!" It's fine to have a little mystery. Marvel does it in nearly all their movies, after the credits.
>(3) The rather forced clips of the upcoming Justice League. It didn't build hype it just makes me thing thats very presumptious that WB would assume I care for these other heroes. Which I don't (except for the FLash. and my fave Flash was Jay Garrick)
I'm 50/50 on that.
>(5)The death of Superman. Too early? I think so - I feel like I haven't connected enough to the character.
I'm not sure it even matters, since he's coming back.
>and (6) Poor editing. Jump cuts to unrelated scenes.
Can you expand on this?
>>67812401
>>It's just cringeworthy and makes me somehow furious knowing that DC will just say fuck it quips every 10 seconds let's make silly scenes no more blood in our movies and basically every fucking movie ever will look the same from now on just to cater to critics.
I do think quips can be cringeworthy *ahemAGEOFULTRONahem*, but, by being more like the Avengers and/or the MCU, I mean, what Whedon said, way way back - take it slower.
We could have had another Superman movie to build a bit more of the mythos of the man of steel. I mean, hell, we could have had Luthor take on Superman in a game of wits, in a nod to All-Star Superman. Maybe even have an adaptation where Luthor succeeds in poisoning Superman, so Supes has to go into exile in the Sun in order to heal himself.
Or we could have Superman take on Brainiac.
I am psyched for a Wonder Woman movie. I know Snyder is a huge fan of Miller and the Dark Knight Returns - I thinks its a clear Snyder would ahve rather directed an adaptation of The Dark Knight returns. Which makes me wonder - why didn't DC let him do it?
I could go on, but, my point is - BvS suffered because of executive meddling. I have a real strong suspicion that BvS had a solid script and idea, but DC execs meddled it too much that it became 4 plots when it should have been two at most.
And the ultimate point is: DC just wants to beat at Marvel by putting Darkseid out before Marvel can get to Thanos. And while Marvel has its quips, I'd ratehr take a carefully though out schema of movies than a hastily planned out rush to "try and beat the other guy." Hell, DC could win by making Darkseid a lot more badass than Thanos.
I dunno - Thanos always seemed more interesting to me than Darkseid. Even if Marvel takes it slower, I'd still be more interested. Thats what DC really needs to do. Not quips. Not rushing. Make the audience "care"
>>67812651
>I am psyched for a Wonder Woman movie.
What did he mean by this?
>>67811950
Something to add...
Why did Lois go back for the spear? I understand why she tossed it away, but why did she turn around to go back for it? Batman realized they would need it to kill Doomsday, but there was never any chance for the heroes to relay this to Lois
>>67812791
Pretty sure she (and literally everyone else) could see Doomsday.
>>67812314
>>67812387
>> Batman just decides to stop hitting superman after he says Martha... why? I get that was his mothers name too, but that just gets rid of his motivation to fight how?
> Uh yeah? His parents dying was a traumatic event, that literally led to him becoming Batman.
Are you suggesting that every time Batman hears the name Martha he goes into shock? Really? It's still a weak reason to stop fighting.
Not to mention - did YOU watch the rest of this film? This Batman ain't got a problem with killing.
The tone was not the problem with BvS. Anyone who says otherwise is a medically diagnosed fucking retard. TDK was just as dark. The difference is that as a film, TDK was extremely well made. BvS was all over the place. All the elements were there, and Snyder is amazing with visuals. He just can't tell a fucking story.
I'm a DC fag who's sick of Marvel. But BvS simply wasn't a great movie and it fucking breaks my heart.
>>67812387
>>67812314
>>Batman goes to save Superman's mother - he promises to do that in ten mins with no knowledge of where she'd be? He got lucky with Alfred but I mean come on.
> That's pretty believable. Batman has a ton of surveillance equipment.
She could be literally anywhere given they grabbed her in Smallville and the time between that and the fight. a) why was he so confident he could find someone he had never met and could have been in the hands of someone he'd never met and b) why were they less than ten minutes away anyway? If you're holding the hostage, why is she in Gotham? Why not, like, Texas? You don't need her close by.
>>Not to mention - what exactly was Superman doing in that time? Think about it - Luthor said goodbye, got in a helicopter to fly back to doomsday. Superman is a lot faster than a helicopter. Superman knows exactly where Luthor is. When he arrives, batman has saved martha. If it took Luthor about ten mins (the length of the fight) to get back to doomsday it shouldn't have taken superman that long. The fuck was he doing in that time? Why wouldn't he have just gone to save Martha himself? Why not send batman to confront Luthor?
>Yeah, he could've taken down the helicopter. He also could've just killed Luthor on that rooftop. It doesn't matter, because if he didn't kill Batman, Marta would be torched either way.
You've missed the point: What was superman doing for the ten minutes batman spend rescuing Martha? He wasn't flying. It wasn't far enough away for that. Was he doing laps?
>>67812602
>>Meh, it wasn't that bad.
I'm going to be straight. I hated that scene the MOST in the whole movie. I can forgive the whole "Martha" scene. I thought the JL bits and the postapoc dream was unneeded. But that ding ding ding scene was so cringey that it makes me wonder - why am I even watching this movie.
And yes, I KNOW what a Mother and Father Box is. I know about the ping and ding sounds. Its still sounds stupid. You know how it could have been better?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-MUzvASr8s
See, this sequence works because it SHOWS what a Mother/Father box does. And that encounter with a fourth god from Apokolips feels like a scene out of Event Horizon. It literally makes you go WTF. A scene like this works on its own - it makes you ask questions. Batman harassing Luthor and Luthor talking a demon coming from the stars doesn't work, its just telling.
>>It's fine to have a little mystery. Marvel does it in nearly all their movies, after the credits.
That I agree. the Communion scene would have been perfect in this regard. It could have been an ending teaser.
>>It helps explain Batman's motivation to take down Superman by showing his paranoia.
Here's the thing. The dream could have worked well with just Batman confronting an Injustice Superman with the Apokolips intervention. And even then, Superman going up to Batman, threatening him, and saying "The Bat is dead"was more effective a reason than this dream. Its brutal and primal, but it would make sense why a man like Wayne would want to take on Supes.
>>I'm not sure it even matters, since he's coming back.
And thats the thing: how can we care if we know he's coming back? Hell, Civil War is shaping up well because it might have a death where one person will not come back. Hell, Age of Ultron made me care for Slavsilver who, while not as good as Foxsilver, was still unique. The fact that I am saddened more by the loss of Slavsilver then Superman is saying something.
>>67812314
>>67812387
>>Actually, what did Luthor want full stop? Why was he doing anything? I still couldn't figure that out. He doesn't say at any point and seemed to just be doing shit...because.
> Well yeah, he's insane. On the rooftop, he hyped it up saying "God vs man, day vs night, black vs blue, fight night". He wanted a really good fight.
Wait - was his motivation literally that he was so stupid he wanted a fight for no reason and that if it ended how he said he wanted it to would result in the death of everyone on earth?
Because he's supposed to be smart too. It's like they were writing the Joker or something.
>>67812851
Why would she assume they need the weapon designed to kill Superman against it though?
>>67812851
>>67812791
But Lois has no knowledge that it's going to be kryptonian.
>>67811923
I do love Captain Marvel so you might be on to something there.
>>67813113
You mean Shazam?
Batman stops fighting Superman when he hears the name "Martha" because it humanizes Clark. He's no longer just a "God" but a man with a mother that he cares for. Their mothers sharing a name also links Bruce and Clark on another human level - every man has a mom and theirs happens to share a name.
It's not hard to understand why he stopped fighting Clark, his vendetta was that Clark was a God that needed to be stopped and hearing that this alien had a human mother that he cared for and loved brought Clark to a human level for Bruce.
>>67812977 (cont.)
>>67812602
>>and (6) Poor editing. Jump cuts to unrelated scenes.
>>Can you expand on this?
I'm going to have to wait until the movie coems out on DVD. Then maybe I can dissect it for the attempt at capekino it tried to be.
But for a simple example - that ending. Some have pointed it out before, but there were a lot of sequences in the movie where the movie could have ended. It could have ended on Superman's "monument". Or Batman hinting at finding the other members of the Justice League. Or even the aforementioned communion scene, and maybe with the end credits teaser being the ground around Superman's grave lifting. The ending for BvS felt like a movie that didn't know how to end.
Other poor cuts....I think the transition between the post apoc dream to the FLash time travelling was poorly handled. The Flash could have teleported at another point of the movie and it could've worked. It could have worked just before Batmanw as threatened by Supes - it would have made Batman wonder what Flash meant by "you were right", and then find out that Superman was a man too powerful.
I rememebred there was at lkeast one scene that was a poor jump. It was the wodner woman vintage photo that jump to something else. I felt the cut could be better. But again, a criticism better reserved for an in-home watching.
I'm debating whether I should watch it in cinema again or not. That Doomsday fight, and Batman uncovering a conspiracy bits, would be worth it. But I sure as hell would want to avoid the DING DING DING DING part.
>>67809101
Tell me more OP.
We can figure it out together!
What do you think is the problem?
>>67813130
It's been a while since I read a good Billy Batson story, anon.
>>67810087
>third act the movie devolves into excessive CGI action bullshit.
you mean like all capeshit movies?
all those questions are carried into the scene and answered
the movie functions by setting associations in the viewer that the viewer carries throughout(much like any movie)every single association in the movie is connected to that same cgi fight
>>67813131
Fucking this
Plebs always taking things at face value, idiots
>>67813016
the monster came out of the kryptonian ship
>>67813284
It's even more that. It's not just that once he brought the god to the man's level he can't kill the human man, Bruce also realizes that he is becoming exactly what he is accusing Superman might become of.
He knows that if Superman becomes just as disillusioned as Bruce is (how many good guys are left after 20 years), if he takes matters into his own hands, all of humanity will suffer. He also stops because he realizes he is doing exactly what he fears.
>>67813284
That doesn't make it any less stupid in execution. That's the real problem with these movies. They have lots of interesting and smart ideas but they fail in execution. And it really doesn't matter how great of an idea you have for your movie if you can't do it right.
>>67811923
>MUHLLENNIALS
stopped reading
>>67813430
I don't disagree. In MoS the tornado scene is a convoluted mess, even if I do get it. But I had no real problems with the Martha scene, that shit is pretty clear and obvious.
>>67809523
>>67809220
You're wrong. The movie sets up the idea of contrast but fails to deliver. It's not "Day vs. Night." It's "Night vs Midnight." It's not "Black vs. Blue." It's "Black vs. Slightly Darker Blue." You can't have the contrast of two ideals as diametrically opposed if they're basically the same but with the tint mildly turned up one of them.
>>67813328
She was in Gotham, how did she know?
>>67812979
He's basically Joker of Metropolis
>>67813168
>Other poor cuts....I think the transition between the post apoc dream to the FLash time travelling was poorly handled. The Flash could have teleported at another point of the movie and it could've worked. It could have worked just before Batmanw as threatened by Supes - it would have made Batman wonder what Flash meant by "you were right", and then find out that Superman was a man too powerful.
Do you think the Flash thing would've been good after the credits?
>I'm debating whether I should watch it in cinema again or not. That Doomsday fight, and Batman uncovering a conspiracy bits, would be worth it. But I sure as hell would want to avoid the DING DING DING DING part.
Nah, I liked it, but it's not worth the money to watch twice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C16eiQH06RE
https://youtu.be/yUtW6KIdtxE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNujOlEeQMg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGPIhrSvhZg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7UX81BXIc0
>spectator media
>bvs is spectator media and yet....
>>67812736
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S176AKQhcCk
Best piece of music in the entire movie.
>>67813600
before she left metropolis shit was going on in the ship, perry told her to go to it but she said she had to go to gotham
as she was exiting the building she heard the monster roar while it was being led into gotham by batman. the second she hears the roar she goes back in
MoS has kind of a dreamy aesthetic and presentation with overall majestic themes and tones. obviously not for everyone
>>67813515
Their personalities are irrelevant. Lex didn't say "Emo vs Cheerleader". He said "Man vs god". He was contrasting their power, and also the fact that they were already pitted against each other.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OUkztFhUeI
>humans shouldn't be forced into cogs of the machine
>literally the message of MoS
>>67813752
He said Day vs. Night. He said Black and Blue. The contrast is supposed to be in their themes and ideals, not just in their power levels. Otherwise you're just watching DBZ.
>>67813678
>>Do you think the Flash thing would've been good after the credits?
I think the communion scene, or superman rising from the grave, or even Wonder Woman looking at the decrypted files about the Justice league would've been better, but, and on reflection: yeah, it could have worked.
>>67809151
Dark superman is the best superman. Early light comic superman is so unrealistic tat it makes for horrible movies.
>>67813849
The movies are meant to take place in our reality, not your shitty comics you brain dead manchild.
>>67813747
>>obviously not for everyone
When DC is trying to take on Marvel and make a killing at the Box Office, making a movie not for everyone is a bad decision. Its not making watchmen, its making a movie thats supposed to make money and not some artistic statement.
Its like expecting to get everyone to enjoy a big budget movie about Socrates & Plato - not going to work
>>67813888
>or even Wonder Woman looking at the decrypted files about the Justice league would've been better
Goddamn that would make so much sense. That would be way better.
>>67813966
ok?
what exactly is your point?
ITT the same deluded marvelcocks recite the same shit that has been debunked over and over again
>>67809101
maybe it's too grimdark for you? idfk i find it really hard to believe that if you loved all those other movies that you hated BvS and MoS
>>67814346
People like harp on Marvel movies being "muh quips" and beign made for normies, but it is this exact fag that Marvel ahs been able to make bank by marketing movies to nromies.
If DC was trying to make a movie like The Dark Knight or Watchmen, thats fine. But theya re trying to jumpstart a cinematic universe. theyw ant to take on Marvel. And to do so, they need to make a movie audiences want to see and recommend. If a movie like BvS can interest only a select audience in watching it, how can it make money?
>>67814587
who gives a fuck, this cinematic universe shit is cancer, just a way for execs and producers to make as much bank as possible.
I'm just happy at least some effort is being put into the first DC ones and we're getting interesting movies
I actually liked the movie but these were probably my biggest issues:
>too fast and assumed you knew their backgrounds already
>felt like a prequel to Justice League more so than BvS
>The movie had to cover so many characters with so little time that no character development was really made
>Lex was really annoying with the incoherent rambling
>Superman could've easily avoided death by giving the spear to someone else
>I felt like Snyder was forced to put certain plot points in by WB and build the script around it
I think the film was being used as an introduction to every new DC movie that's going to happen in the future
>>67813624
Only if you are pleb. There's nothing chaotic about his actions.
>>67813747
Honestly, I wish it was more surreal, and anti-pleb.
The complaints that it's not as clear cut and obvious as a Marvel flick are hilarious.
>>67814750
>who gives a fuck
The people in charge that want to make moeny
>>67814899
I'm glad based Snyder BTFO them twice
>>67814765
>too fast and assumed you knew their backgrounds already
?
People were butthurt about Batman's origin story being played again, but this is exactly why. And this is a "sequel" to MoS, so the audience should know Superman's origin story also.
>felt like a prequel to Justice League more so than BvS
There's like 2 scenes where the other heroes are mentioned (the emails and the funeral).
>Lex was really annoying with the incoherent rambling
Example?
>Superman could've easily avoided death by giving the spear to someone else
Yeah, I'm not sure why Wonder Woman couldn't do it.
>I felt like Snyder was forced to put certain plot points in by WB and build the script around it
The second half seemed like something execs put in to appeal to normies.
>>67814913
Me too, but he can't keep getting away with it.
>>67814765
>I need everything spelled out for me, often and repeatedly
This is the most representative of the Marvel fanbase thing I've ever read
>>67814925
>Yeah, I'm not sure why Wonder Woman couldn't do it.
It's more of a thematic choice than anything else. Technically she was busy fighting I guess, but the point is that Superman willingly takes on this burden as a statement that he is willing to sacrifice everything for humanity.
It's not set up like a film.
It's set up like a comic book or graphic novel.
And if you haven't read the comics, then it will make no sense to you.
>>67813275
>you mean like all capeshit movies?
Nolan's Batman trilogy, the first two Raimi Spider-Man movies, Burton's Batman movies, the list goes on. This excessive CGI action bullshit trend didn't become widespread until the MCU.
>>67815028
Oh wait, I never mind. Now I remember she lassoed him.
It's interesting that you said that. Ties in to the whole messiah theme. Shame that Marvelfags won't get it.
>>67815103
>And if you haven't read the comics, then it will make no sense to you.
Which part(s)?
>>67813275
>all those questions are carried into the scene and answered
No they aren't. The first hour of the movie is all about the world rejecting Superman and at the end of the movie we never see if the world had changed their mind about him.
>>67815170
Yes, it ends the whole "inspire" arc. Since Superman, in death, inspires Batman (humanity) to do better and starts the Justice League.
Plus it does make sense logically, why the fuck would they need a league if they have Superman? It's not like it gets much better than that.
>>67815216
Are you dumb? The world never "rejects" him. The world mostly has a mixed opinion of him, and the movie focuses on Batman and Lex's views.
>>67815274
>The world mostly has a mixed opinion of him
And this is never resolved.
>>67815264
But isn't he coming back?
>>67815216
They literally give him a soldier's funeral, and Batman regrets mis-characterizing so much he vows to never fail him again.
>>67815302
Well we know that, as the audience, in-universe people don't.
>>67815297
Yes it is, dumbfuck. Didn't you see the funeral?
You will like the movie if you know youre going to be watching a fucking comic book movie. You will hate it if you let your autism trigger over small things.
It has some great scenes but the movie itself isnt Amazing its just fine or good
>>67815487
>You will hate it if you let your autism trigger over small things.
Yeah, I'm watching CinemaSins' review of it, and he's getting triggered over the smallest details. I don't watch him, but does he do this often?
>>67809101
It's because it's stupid.
It's fine for a movie to be dark and serious if the writing, acting and presentation can back it up.
BvS is like a preteens take on philosophy, posing interesting questions without the substance to back it up.
The end result if your brain not having "fun" like you would at a popcorn flick, while at the same time being insulted by how retarded it is.
>>67815694
>posing interesting questions without the substance to back it up
What did he mean by this?
>>67809244
You can sum all that up by simply saying "it's a Zack Snyder film." He just wants to see cool costumes.
>>67815694
I was more excited and enthralled by MoS than any other "popcorn flick" capeshit, the fuck are you talking about?
>>67815487
>You will like the movie if you know youre going to be watching a fucking comic book movie
I hated watching this movie, comic book or not.
>You will hate it if you let your autism trigger over small things.
Are you really using the "Just turn off your brain bro" excuse? Fucking Really
>>67814765
>assumed you knew their backgrounds already
but we do
we all already know who batman is
we all already know who alfred is
any character we don't know provides brief stories about themselves as with senator finch
>>67815111
>This excessive CGI action bullshit trend didn't become widespread until the MCU.
exactly, it's what's going on right *now* while also having the extra meaning of allusion to mythology and movie and story tropes
>>67815297
>>67815387
if you seek his monument, look around
>>67815487
It is a bit silly. I think it's the tone. The more serious tone, the more likely people are going to nitpick shit.
Pretty much every Marvel movies gets a pass for plotholes or dumb shit, but they are light in tone, so no one cares.
>>67815756
Same here bro. Winter Solder is the one good Marvel movie that can match MoS and BvS.
>>67815756
Not everyone is excited and enthralled by shallow Jesus symbolism.
>>67815967
>notices the obvious
>discards all the rest
please bathe in gasoline and get hit by lightning
>>67809101
I liked all marvel movies ane I liked BvS.
I want my money to be worth it, and since I know not to trust Hollywood I just shut off what few brain functions I still have for the duration of the movie.
>>67815967
>Maximum pleb detected.
I'm so sorry.
>>67815763
Your autism doesn't count as using your brain.
>>67815967
>He doesn't know about all the other nuances and symbolism
>>67815967
>this'll be a witty reply
>>67815927
Uhh I liked BvS, but your're seriously exaggerating. Avengers at the least, can match it.
>>67816062
>If you don't like this shitty movie, then you have autism
Compelling logic
>>67816172
What are your qualms with it?
>>67816004
>>67816030
>>67816088
Keep crying, Snydercucks.
>>67816117
Nice thumbnail.
>>67816206
Wow, that's a compelling argument.
>>67816127
Personal opinion, Avengers is a pretty boring made for TV-movie with the depth of cartoon as far as I'm concerned. I have no desire to ever see it more than the one time I have already.
wheres that pic of them kissing
>>67816206
>The plebs hate what they don't understand
Snyder is truly a prophet and a visionary.
>>67816206
stop acting like a retard
>>67809101
I think it's because none of the characters feel like real people. They are caricatures.
>>67816336
You got confused for a second. This isn't a marvel movie.
>>67816336
What? This is one of the few comic book movies that was meant to be realistic. Anyone who sees Superman's shenanigans would feel he's a menace.
>>67810802
Except the videogames she analyzes have no agenda. Meanwhile the feminists, under the excuse that they DO have an agenda make their own agenda-based products.
Not like I care I'll still watch it.
>>67816235
You want a compelling argument? Fine, shallow symbolism doesn't redeem a shitty blockbuster. If I want something symbolic I'll watch a arthouse film instead of a fucking Superman flick.
Am I late to the party?
I haven't visited /tv/ in a while, and I did just now to hear your input about this movie and why it's so bad?
Of course, the name gives that away easily, but I want to know what made the movie so shit that many claims it is, and if I should waste money on it
>>67816235
>>67816274
>>67816313
Kill yourselves.
>>67816470
I bet you've convinced yourself you're not mad as fuck lmao
>>67816470
>The plebs rages, for he hates, what he can not understand
Why is our savior right every time?
>>67816504
>>67816510
Hello Charles and Alex.
>>67816447
It's not bad.
>>67816424
Kek typical Marvelfag. Cries when his mind is challenged. Why don't you just go watch Family Guy? Or do you have trouble even keeping up with pop culture references?
>>67812518
I like snyder supes. He's really likable cause it kinda humanizes him. Also he sacrificed himself and took the kryptospear to kill doomsday. Pretty heroic.
>>67816567
Heavy handed religious symbolism isn't challenging.
>>67816550
>>67816470
>you like this movie?
>here's a bunch of literal who?'s who like it
what
>>67816550
Sisyphus, undeterred, continues on.
>>67816206
i never cared about snyder, my dad was the one who really wanted to watch 300 when i didn't care about it
i watched the movie with all my expectations fucked with, i didn't want the movie to be good yet,
i'm one the guys intensely reading into the movie, i'm the boy who first cried hypercrisis on monday, right now is being hypercrisis is being confirmed in hypercrisis thread in /co/
>>67816627
Charles, go back to twitter.
>>67814913
You do realizing that this gonna get him into JUST territory, right?
>>67816604
The point is tasteless faggots from twitter are the ones who have been relentlessly spamming capekino on here for months.
>>67816716
Your autistic resolve is actually kind of impressive. I commend you on your dedication.
.t the patrician king
>>67816781
Hey nigger, what does Max Landis's cock taste like?
>>67816775
If he started the capekino meme, he should be congratulated. Look how much butthurt he caused you.
top kek
>>67816807
Like Matzo Balls.
>>67816821
>he should be congratulated for spreading cancer
You capeshitters need to go back to /co/ and /v/ and stay there.
*tips fedora while stepping out of the shadows*
The pitiful peons at Marvel have underestimated the power of DC one time too many. The "Marvel Cinematic Universe". Huh. A shoddily shot, messily put together series of soulless and artless wastes of celluloid designed to appeal to the base intellects of moronic manchildren still dreaming of becoming powerful as they waste their lives away masturbating to images of Black Widow.
Only a fool and a weakling of mind could gain satisfaction from watching poorly animated CGI trade weightless and impactless punches while trading quips a severely mentally retarded Thai ladyboy would find beneath him/her.
DC understand cinéma. They understand kino. DC know how to build shade and light in a performance, how to engage the minds of true enlightened souls. DC have redefined not just superhero films, but the entire film industry itself.
Mentally challenged Marvel fanboys can only begin to grasp the tectonic shift in filmmaking that has been unleashed. Critics and reviewers fail to recognize a movie far ahead of its time once again, crying on their blogs about lack of snark and quipping - failing to recognize a literal masterpiece as it unfolds before them.
The public have responded. The entire filmmaking industry has been shaken to its core. DC have changed the game utterly - a new landscape is carved, a beauty is born, a God walks among men.
*teleports away*
>>67816909
He triggered you so hard you have spent time posting the same butthurt shitposts over and over for days.
You're no better than he is, you're just as cancer as he is, and you are just as autistic.
top kek m8, good luck
>>67817092
this t-bh
>>67817083
REKT
The movie has a lot of technical problems, but the themes and character arcs aren't problematic. You guys have to put your misconceptions at the door and engage the movie.
For example people say that Superman is an asshole or brooding faggot, but that's because they still want Superman out of him. That idealization from past movies and comic books.
This Superman is very humanized. He's just a guy trying to do good things and feeling lost by all the shit the world wants out of him.
Throughout the whole movie you see that he isn't fast enough to save everybody. People complain about Zack Snyder wanting to murder Jimmy Olsen at the beginning of the movie for the chock value and use that as a statement that he's a psychopath shad, but there's a reason for this: he wants to establish right at the beginning that Superman can't save all. That he isn't fast enough.
The same goes for the capitol bombing. Superman can't hear or see everything. He has to be aware and check for things. That's why Lex uses a guy who blames Superman for Metropolis because he knew that Superman would ignore the man out of shame and guilt.
Everything in the movie shows Superman can't be answer to our problems. That we can't and shouldn't put him pedestal and fault him for our and the world's problems. Because he's someone like us just trying to figure shit and control the little that he can.
People want him to be perfect, to hide his feelings and smile in the face or carnage, to always be there to save everyone, to never lose. Superman can't be that. He can only try and figure his own problems. We're the ones that should take the bulk of our problems.
And that's why a lot of Superman fans and the audience doesn't like this Superman, because he isn't the Superman they've been looking for. He just a guy in tights. Maybe that's wrong. Maybe Snyder shouldn't show us Superman like that. Like a real person. Maybe we need the idealization. I disagree.
>>67817531
Give this anon a medal.
>>67817531
the death itself is good news
>>67817531
>I disagree.
Me too, this is the only time I ever gave a fuck about Superman. It made me pick up Superman trades to learn more about. Got Red Son and Allstar so far.
>>67817531
I felt really bad for this Supes throughout the whole movie. He's just a guy. He didn't asked to be alien, he didn't asked to have powers. He has his man and his girlfriend, that are the world for him, his work where he's treated like shit. He just's a guy. He wants to help an all, but people just want too much out of him. Both in the movie from the people and the villains, as from the audience as well. People punish him for their owns failings and his. People hunt him. People hurt him.
I connected with this guy. I cried like a little kid in the end. It's just fucking unfair.
This song reminds me a lot of this Superman:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1wtyW__5O8
>>67818029
>I connected with this guy. I cried like a little kid in the end. It's just fucking unfair.
Well, I guess that answers your (>>67812127) concern.
>>67818482
In my cinema there was an old man, around 60, who was crying like a motherfucker. He came out gasping and with teary red eyes. That ending just fucked with people. Lots of people came out crying or depressed as fuck.
>>67818564
Beautiful.
Maybe the reaction is in part due to how the movie presents something so real through fantasy
>>67819140
This
OP obviously couldn't handle pure kino
>>67818564
you have to go through your inner pain in order to be cleansed....
