Alright hear me out on this one.
In every Batman movie, his origin story is basically the same. Joe Chill or whoever corners them and demands money and jewelry from them. The Waynes comply and Chill decides to kill them in cold blood, for seemingly no reason whatsoever. This leaves a deep imprint in Bruce's mind, and he vows to never kill and never use a gun.
But in Batman v Superman, the story is slightly altered and I'm surprised nobody picked up on it. The scene seemingly plays out the same at the start, with the killer cornering the Waynes and demading money. But there is one big difference in the way it's acted out. This time, Thomas Wayne lunges at the assailant who in response shoots him and kills Martha Wayne. This is a pretty big departure, because the Waynes originally are killed in cold blood but this time the shooter actually has a valid reason as to why he shot and that is self-defense.
Maybe I'm just crazy, but maybe that departure is also the reason why Batman is much more brutal in this version and even kills people?
>>67697477
>but this time the shooter actually has a valid reason as to why he shot and that is self-defense.
>points gun at guy and his wife
>"gimme ya munnie!"
>guy attempts to fight back
>shoot him and his wife
>"it was self defense! I dindu nuttin!"
>>67697477
>Maybe I'm just crazy, but maybe that departure is also the reason why Batman is much more brutal in this version and even kills people?
I figured it was more because of Robin dying by the Joker's hand, but your idea's pretty neat too. I figured he was just putting himself before his family so he can save them.
I don't understand why they JUST didn't do a separate Batman origin movie, wonder woman movie, and THEN do BvS. It just doesn't make any sense.
>>67697477
Wouldn't seeing how needless violence escalates the situation and gets his parents killed teach him a lesson in being LESS violent though?
>>67697477
It was just to make it more action-y because Snyder has to make everything over the top.
>>67697477
There's many iterations which show the Wayne's struggle with Joe Chill prior to them being shot.
Also
>Valid Reason
alt-right pls go.
>>67697477
It was retarded. It made Bruce's dad look like some fucking retard. He attacked a thug with a gun and got himself and his wife killed.
>>67697601
This
Also try not to think about it too much. This movie isn't too deep.
Regardless of this "depature", in the comics he eventually realizes that crime has gotten so out of control, that some people must be killed because it isn't worth putting them in Arkham Asylum over and over and over.
I assume in this reality, he has already had to kill the Joker, for some insane Joker genocide (like in Dark Knight Returns), or he killed the Joker in revenge of Robin, either way I assume the Joker is dead.
Once he has killed the Joker, it opens up death as a possibility for him. He doesn't SEEK to kill and destroy his enemies, like say, the Punisher, but he isn't hesitant about doing so either.
He doesn't tip toe around opponents and use only non-lethal methods as the aged Bruce Wayne here, he's too PTSD, too exhausted, he's seen too much shit to care anymore about trying to defend these criminals and spare their lives.
So while he doesn't actively seek to kill people, if killing them is necessary to complete his objective, and there's no other option, he won't shy away from it.
>I'm a billionaire
>Oh no someone wants the tiny amount of pocket change I have in my wallet, can't live without that
>better put my family at risk and try to punch him like a retard
>>67697727
>I assume the Joker is dead
Except he wont be, screencap this. He'll be in Arkham and SS will be about him getting broken out partially.
All the faggots ITT never actually understood why batman doesn't kill people.
Why would anyone oppose a vigilante who just beats up criminals?
>>67697576
They should've done this, then incorporated the Batman vs Superman element into the Justice League. You're right.
But they'll make a solo Wonder Woman and solo Batman either way, and 2 Justice League movies.
So we can pretend Batman v Superman didn't even happen, or whatever. Personally I loved that movie.
>>67697477
>Joe Chill
Everybody knows it was The Joker who canonically kills Batman's parents.
>>67697783
Also if criminals aren't being threatened with being killed they aren't going to be pressured into using more extreme tactics.
>>67697768
do people actually believe SS takes place at the same time as Batman V Superman?
I assumed it takes place in the early/mid of Batman's career, and Batman V Superman takes place at the end of his career.
>>67697477
>I'm surprised nobody picked up on it
You're not unique, special snowflake, it wasn't nearly as subtle as you think it was, etc, etc.
So now Bruce is trying to live up to his dead father, who bravely stood up to a thug.
>>67697844
Have you ever danced with the devil by the pale moonlight?
>>67697844
I actually loved that departure from the comics. Gave the pair of them a nice poetic (inb4 pottery) antagonism - they literally created each other.
>>67697727
>I assume in this reality, he has already had to kill the Joker
uhmm, did you miss all those madman Leto memes?
>>67697919
Amanda Waller literally mentions Superman in the first trailer. Furthest back in time it'll take place is like a year or so before BvS.
>>67697958
Leto is Robin-turned-JokerJr. Keep up.
>>67697559
>dindu nuffin
Redditfags leave.
>>67697477
oy vey if only it were illegal to use evil guns during the commission of a robbery, evil NRA bigot racist white men
My problem with Batman killing isn't the "one rule" shit or whatever, but because it begs the question "Why doesn't Batman just go into a place with his own guns and clean house?" I mean, why would he resort to gadgets and martial arts to disable multiple armed opponents when a gun would be faster and more efficient? I know the real answer is "Because it's more exciting and visceral to watch Batman snap arms and cave people's faces in while jumping and ninja-ing around", but I'm talking in-universe.
>>67697950
Yeah, and he told me you're gay
>>67697844
I thought it was cool how when Batman goes to get the Kryptonite from that truck he busts through Nicholson Fishery. Nice nod.
>>67698317
Wow man, that's deep
>>67698233
BvSfags won't be able to respond to this because they've got their heads jammed so far up their collective ass they can't see sense
>>67698233
Then he'll just be a punisher with ears. He did not seem like a cold-blooded murderer in BvS, at least when he was out of his vehicles. I clearly remember he fragged some guys with the grenade "accidentally" and that's it.
>>67698233
Because he is still inherently good by then. He killed that guy who was shooting at his car because he was driven to save the world and nobody was going in his way.
After learning about Superman and relenting to kill him then he goes back and realizes how everyone has a mother and Superman wakes him up out of his darkness.
I really don't think Batman was that evil if nobody shot at him and he wasn't mentally ill he would have just found a way.
Snyder meant him to get redemption I think.
>>67697477
This is the world after the flashpoint, its Thomas Wayne, not Bruce.
>but this time the shooter actually has a valid reason as to why he shot and that is self-defense.
Spoken like a true nigger.
Also in Batman begins it was different. Killer takes the wallet and is scared when it drops to the floor. Thomas says it's OK just take it. Killer points gun at Martha but Thomas steps in the way and killer accidently shoots out of fear I think.
I gotta see the movie again because I missed the first 20 minutes.
>>67698392
Punisher is more FAR effective using this reasoning, though.
>>67698409
> everyone has a mother!
Even HITLER had a fucking mother, right?
>>67698233
There's no real instances of him breaking his rule other than incidentally. If he really was the killer a lot of people are making him out to be he'd use guns in every fight and not just on his vehicles.
>>67697477
In some comics it is stated that Bruce's father fighted the robber back. Lurk moar.
>>67697576
To be fair, we already know Batman's origin story, since its been done several times now.
They should have made a Wonder Woman film first though, I agree.
>>67697727
>like in Dark Knight Returns
In TDKR (the comic) the Joker kills himself (in a very strange way, I give you that, but in the end Batman didn't have anything to do with his death).
>>67698519
He is. Batman is supposed to be much smarter and stealthier though.
>>67697727
>pupils at the corner of the eyes
>>67697477
Do you really think Jeffrey Dean Morgan would not react to a thief???
>>67697477
>the shooter actually has a valid reason as to why he shot and that is self-defense.
Unfortunately that's not how it works legally (at least in the USA).
If a criminal tries to rob someone with a weapon, the victim has the right to defend themselves.
If the victim attacks the criminal, the criminal can't then use "self defense" as a defense against the victim defending themselves (or others), since it would never even have happened had the criminal not tried to rob them in the first place.
Self-defense is not a legitimate defense for the criminal.
>>67698233
Actually, the "real" one-rule thing about him is that he doesn't uses guns. It isn't stated in the movies, and I'm too tired to search for examples, but again, the comics state that too.
>>67698409
> everyone has a mother
He knew that already though because he was just talking about how Superman's parents must've told him he was special. That's a line directly lifted from DKR, where Batman KNOWS Superman's parentage. Zack just doesn't care and wants to jam as many references into the movie regardless of continuity, context or even sense.
>>67697580
yes, people who are exposed to extreme violence that leads them to being orphans deprived of genuine love in a cold world probably usually leads to them learning a valuable lesson about how violence is bad
>>67697477
he was clearly not interested in her pearls either.
it didn't look like it was a robbery.
batfleck makes me think he's old and tired of the batshit so he uses the most effective method now.
>>67698619
can you read?
>>67698619
you will
snyder may actually be a genius simply for being able to trick people into thinking there's depth so easily
>>67698850
Oh, sorry. I thought you meant that he had killed him "like in Dark Knight Returns", not the genocide part desu
>>67697477
Lots of tellings have Thomas and Joe struggle. Wasn't it TAS that had Joe pulling Marthas necklace being what prompts Thomas to push him back, which startles Joe into firing and killing Martha, then killing Thomas after Thomas comprehends what happened and comes at him? that's always been the scene, in my mind.
>>67697931
Man I just thought of that, if Snyder were to of written that scene:
Chill: Gimme your money
Thomas: FUCK YOU MOTHERFUCKER
kek I said KEK
>>67698233
im so fucking tired of this arguement. its all you fags talk about. I havent seen the movie nor do I wish to but from all the shit i see and read here the only thing that gets supermans attention is the fact that he being this murderous vigilante. fucking move on already
>>67697477
>This is a pretty big departure
No it fucking isn't you impossibly dumb shit, that's exactly what happens in Batman begins, you dumb cocksucker.
Jesus fucking christ.
>>67698409
>Snyder meant him to get redemption I think.
you think so? hmm i wonder if there's a connection between the first scene, the second scene, bruce's relationship to superman, and the conclusion of his arc...
nahhhh hack snyder and all. you're making shit up anon
>>67697477
>we don't even get to see how ripped Thomas Wayne is, in the directors cut he beats up five muggers and rips his shirt off
this should be a meme
>>67697477
Isn't Bruce's parent dying a memory/dream sequence. It's all from Bruce's perspective and in that perspective he imagines his father trying to fight back/doing the right thing.
how the fuck is the criminal using self defense? he committed a crime by robbing innocent people at gun point.
>>67700647
also the fact that his father tries to fight back and still fails to protect his family hence 'martha' intercut with the funeral and bruce running away into bat/ascension with bruce narration
that scene alone explains what batman is and combined with the metropolis scene after it to fully place the psychology of bruce
>>67698058
are you kidding me?
someone saying something comically racist is reddit? you have reddit and pol confused, friendo
>>67697559
This is how self defence laws actually work in Canada.
>>67702697
pls, brawl laws in canada should be in the US too.
BvS makes more sense if you watch the movie imagining Burton's Batman instead of Nolan's.
>>67697576
follow the spiderman routine again to see the origin for the 70th time?
that was one of the good bits about BvS, "here Batman is older now, either pretend it's a new timeline or 15 years after DKR or whatever like it's a bond franchise with vague inconsistencies"
>Batman can now kill
How does this make him any different from Ra's al Ghul?
>>67697477
>mugger points gun at family and demands money
>Father tries to attack mugger
>mugger somehow now has a valid reason to claim self defense
Jesus Christ is this how separated from reality this fucking board is?
Because if it is, its fucking terrifying.
>>67697477
No that's stupid, it's because his boy toy died.
>>67703436
when 20 years of fighting crime and guzzling booze still hasn't stopped the nightmaresnightmares that stopped for papa kent when he found his wife, settling down being the one persistent peice of advice alfred had for bruceyou start to get unhinged.
>>67697559
That's how Zimmerman won the case
Thank you Florida for Zim Zam and Hulkamania
>>67697576
Because they are already playing catch up with Marvel and they want their share of the capeshit universe money.
http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2016/03/11/inside-chris-terrios-vision-for-batman-superman-and-justice-league/
>>67697919
Batfleck did a car chase scene for Skwad and Waller mentions how Superman was probably"a beacon for these freaks" . it takes place between Man of Murder and BvS
>>67703585
No it isn't. Zimmerman won the case because he didn't pull out his gun until he was on his back getting pounded in the face. It was a normal self defense case. He feared for his life and couldn't run. You can claim Zimmerman started the fight, but there's no actual evidence or eyewitness testimony to support that so you'd just be speculating. In fact, the sequence of events, layout of the area, and testimony of Trayvon's friend who he was on the phone with suggests that Trayvon actually doubled back in order to confront Zimmerman and kick his ass for following him.
>>67698233
Because then he would be Punisher in a Bat suit.I like yo think that he still likes to give the criminals a choice. Murder is a last resort method. Fear and intimidation are more preferred.
>>67703463
>Jesus Christ is this how separated from reality fucking millennials are?
>Because if it is, its fucking terrifying.
Fixed.
>>67698039
He is too old to be a Robin, hell, in real life even Leto is older than Affleck.
>>67697559
That's the American Way, my man.
>>67704522
It's been twenty years, and it doesn't really matter how old the actor is. Leto looks young as shit.
>>67703436
Nolan's Ra's al Ghul wasn't even Ra's al Ghul.
>>67697477
deepest lore
BRAVO
