The Space Pirates edition.
What does /who/ think of The Space Pirates?
Last Autism >>67279637
>>67286733
>but some of it is bang-on
Lol like what?
>Reminder that there are people who think Series 9 was absolute pig feces.
>>67286793
Reminder that Issigri Mining Company = Interplanetary Mining Corporation.
If there was one thing the NAs were good at, it was making a cohesive future history out of Doctor Who.
>>67286848
Reminder that no one fucking cares.
>>67286848
no one cares that you hate s9 stop shitting up /who/
>>67286848
Series 9? More like Series most recent so people need to put some perspective on and realize it was still better than 2 or 7.
>>67286992
Series 2 was GOAT.
Why do people hate it? Ian Levine said that Tooth and Claw is the best Doctor Who episode ever made
>>67286774
So far, I agree with him on everything except the idea that the original show was a Marxist text. Bits of it were, particularly in the Cartmel era, but most of it was only better because the culture was better (ie. not neoliberal). He's right about what he doesn't like and wrong about what he likes, basically. But I'm only up to '...its all part of the trade-off that the Nice Guy makes.'
>>67287024
Because 10/Rose are annoying and it has a string of bad episodes.
>>67287024
Ian Levine used to say that about The Dalek Masterplan.
>>67286793
It has some of the best hats in Who history, but is another strangely dull early Holmes story. Probably because there's so little of the Doctor in it.
>>67286992
>>67287024
and I swear to Christ Series 7 wasn't as bad as people make it out to be
>>67287092
They used to call people autistic for not liking the 10/Rose relationship, you know.
>>67287114
It genuinely wasn't. There were some dull ones, but at least the whole thing wasn't taken up by an arc without a satisfying resolution.
>>67286733
It's not just autism but it sure is autism.
>>67287143
>but at least the whole thing wasn't taken up by an arc without a satisfying resolution.
But it was?
>>67286793
I watched the surviving episode and all I can say is thank fuck they destroyed the rest of them.
> As with so much of Moffat’s work, this is a recycling of stuff that was big in the 90s.
Brilliant. I would never have thought of that, but it's true. This is what criticism is all about.
>>67287123
And the cycle will continue: they're calling people autist for not liking 12/Clara but when 12/New Companion rolls in they'll say that liking 12/Clara makes you an autist.
>>67287200
And which one is that?
>>67287123
Nah m8 they were annoying. 9/Rose were good. 10/Rose were just way too smug and the romance became forced.
>>67287162
No, you see, Doctor Who fans used to be that articulate at their best. Before it was for people like you.
Do you support of a transgender companion?
>>67287167
Depends on what satisfies you, I guess.
The nature of Clara got spoiled for me after the submarine episode went out, so I don't know what it was like for people going in blind. But on the whole, I thought the whole Clara arch was passable, and enjoyable up until Time of the Doctor.
But perhaps I have shit taste.
>>67287024
>listening to ian levine
>wrote one of the worst cybermen stories of all time
>Wrote doctor in this dress
>>67287280
No.
>>67287167
The impossible girl stuff was kept in the background, not nearly as bad as Silence Wilf All.
>>67287281
It was OK. Not that it was any good, but it was passable.
>>67287280
Nope.
>>67287231
The relationship between Amy and Rory, related to the Nice Guy idea. Rory earns pussy by pining, like Niles or Ross.
>...we learn in ‘The Witch’s Familiar’ that the ultimate terminus of all Dalek life is shit. Yes, I know the stuff in the Dalek city sewers isn’t literally Dalek shit, but it’s still brown gloop in a sewer. If it isn’t actually shit, it’ll do until actual shit comes along. This is what all Daleks become. Shit is entropic in the sense of being matter shuffled into featureless predictability. Time does this. Entropy homogenizes Daleks into diarrhoea. Sentient diarrhoea that just hangs about, seething with rage and bitterness and resentment. And the Doctor motivates this disavowed, expelled, excrementa. He sends some jolts of life back into it. He reanimates the byproducts/revenants of the whole Dalek experiment. The industrial waste of the entire Dalek project becomes zombie crap. He rouses it from its powerless stupor and allows it to make the gothic move, to return, to crawl back up the pipe. And, as a result, the Daleks drown in their own turds. The turds that are also them. The brown stuff oozes and pours out of their casings. The great bed-shitters of the cosmos proceed to shit themselves to death. This is absolutely fucking perfect. It hooks into the particular truth about fascism that it obsesses over hygiene while generating entropy, decay and filth, which then subsumes it. This is legitimately, properly, brilliant. No caveats. Especially since the spectacle of the Daleks’ gothic zombie crap (the return of the excreted) is also laced with a class war subtext. The bottom rises up to attack the top. Oh me, how I loved that bit.
>>67287281
It was pretty bad imo. Clara was forced to be a mystery so they couldn't much with her character until it resolved and 11/Clara were just kind of boring imo. Clara got much better when that arc ended and the writers could actually write her normally. Jenna had much better chemistry with Capaldi than Matt too.
>>67287292
What cyberman story did Ian Levine write?
>>67287280
That would actually be kind of interesting, but not under Moffat (and I doubt it's Chibnall's thing either).
>>67287366
No way someone who wrote it wasn't stoned. Perhaps not by weed, but intoxicated with his own intelligence.
>>67287390
He claims to have ghostwrote the entirety of attack of the cybermen
>>67287280
no
maybe transuranic though
Jack Graham update.
> After all, violence against women – sexual and otherwise – is currently at epidemic levels globally, and getting worse (one of the social by-products of neoliberal crisis and austerity).
The bit in brackets is ludicrous, Ben Watson level willed naivety, even if we accept that we have always had perfect awareness of the levels of violence against women and can give a definitive measurement, which obviously we can't.
>>67287441
Hahaha fucking hell.
>>67287479
>not "phucking"
You had one job anon
>>67287396
Honestly the explicit wrist cutting allusion would never get by the BBC. Suicide maybe, but they'd need to be less graphic about it. It's a very VNAs detail.
>>67287452
David Warner best Steel
reminder that in The Adventure of the Diogenes Damsel Straxus considers transuranics as a potential category of rogue time traveler
>>67287537
PHUCK OFF, PHIL MORRIS!
>>67287557
Well, yeah, I can just imagine the Daily Mail headlines now...
reminder that
>fuck off Adam Orford, Bookanon, Broken mirrors, Cats, Connor, CoverAnon, Chinballs, Christel Dee, Cloister, FNA, GB users, Gareth Roberts, genderfluid genius, GirlyLetters, /got/ anon, Ian Levine, IDKWIA anon, JazzHands, John Wiles, Josh, JNT, The Edgy Frenchman, Lawrence Miles, Matrixlord212, Melanon, Moffat, NeonVisual, Paint Anon, Philip Morris, Phil Sandifer, "Phucking" anon, Planet Mondas fuckers, P. Ness, Prog, RTD, /r/doctorwho, /r/gallifrey, "S9 is pigshit" anon, Sammi Carter, Schlemihl, Tumblr users, /who/tube, wiki deleters, Za, and Zardox
why is the old dude from king of queens on doctor who now?
>>67287634
just kidding i love you allexcept FNA
> Part and parcel of this seems to be his fixation upon the Doctor himself. Admittedly, this is a recurring problem of new-Who going back almost to the start in 2005. But again, Moffat seems to have taken it to a new level. And, y’know… this show isn’t fundamentally about the Doctor. He’s a narrative device for moving us from satire to polemic to allegory to metaphor to pastiche to whatever. That doesn’t, of course, mean that he has to be written as a cipher without interiority. On the contrary, I love it when he is written as having interiority. But the thing is… well, there are several things. Firstly, as mentioned, the kind of interiority he has now is of the self-involved, atomised individual of neoliberalism, not the social actor he should be. Secondly, there’s no necessary connection between giving the Doctor interiority and making the show about him. Thirdly, even if we accept that the show must be intensely emotional and focused upon the feelings of the lead character, wouldn’t it be better if it actually… umm… did that?
This is unneccesarily good for an essay about a load of crap. Some of what follows, concerning sentimentality, is almost as good as something I'd write.
Am I the only one who thoughtClara was far more interesting as a plot point who was suddenly confident and confused all at the same time while the doctor led her on a journey to find out what was going on who could die at any time and come back as a different companion than as a sarah jane/ace wannabe with the ability to make the doctor do things out of his normal boundaries
>>67287280
I support of anattack helicoptercompanion.
>>67287634
Where are you quoting that from, homeslice?
>>67287661
>Some of what follows, concerning sentimentality, is almost as good as something I'd write.
For real? Have you considered adopting a tripcode?
>>67287656
Oh, PISS OFF, Cats, you insufferable PHUCKING WANKER!!!
/who/ should be cleansed of your PHUCKING PHILTH.
You should be utterly, utterly ashamed.
So we've moved on from Gareth Roberts to Jack Graham?
>>67287665
I agree. Although some more personality to the cypher would be nice.
>>67287721
fuck off Cats is GOAT
>>67287707
I did at one time, ages back, but I was away from the thread for a while and forgot it.
>>67287727
Gareth is a great writer and a really great man. His stories have been great. I think we should start a petition to get him writing for our beloved Doctor Who again.
Who's with me?
>>67287634
>>67287656
I was going to reply with "you forgot ____" and act all smug, but you genuinely haven't forgotten anyone. Bloody hell.
>>67287694
i wrote it myself
>>67287757
you too, anon
>>67287665
She went from boring but inoffensive to an absolutely detestable cunt.
>... I have no doubt that Davros is being sincere here. Indeed, I’m quite prepared to believe that a great deal of what Davros says to the Doctor is perfectly sincere. He surely knows that his only hope of convincing the Doctor is to be truthful. He is counting on the Doctor’s compassion. His idea is that compassion is a weakening vice that the Doctor cannot help indulging. And he may have a point, if we take the Doctor’s word for it that he came to Davros because Davros apparently needed him (and I see no reason not to). But, of course, the Doctor has a more nuanced view of things than Davros. His approach basically boils down to offering compassion warily, while keeping his brain switched on.
>I’m rather inclined to admire what Moffat does here (I know, I’m a rubbish token Moffat-hater… I’m like the Colmes to Phil’s Hannity). I mean, I don’t think you can really boil that Doctor/Davros conversation down to them being honest or dishonest, either or both. I think it depicts something very true about life: that sincerity and insincerity are by no means polar opposites and mutually exclusive, and that people can be both sincere and insincere all at once. It is perfectly possible to create false impressions through telling the truth, or vice versa. Moreover, sincerity is not something we flick on and off like a switch, with us always in perfect control and perfectly cognisant of perfectly consistent motives or feelings.
>If we take Davros and the Daleks to be metaphors for fascism (and, as imperfect as this metaphor may be, the episodes do nothing to reject this longstanding subtext in Doctor Who) then Moffat is resolutely saying that the fascist insistence upon ruthlessness, pitilessness and mercilessness are wrong and stupid, and yet fascism itself cannot be shown any mercy, precisely because to do so is to engage in moral relativism that ignores the content of fascism, equates fighting fascism to fascism itself, and permits fascism to get the upper hand.
>>67287727
Gareth is just throwing his toys out of the pram on Twitter, he's ultimately not that interesting unless he gets baited into hurling abuse at someone again.
>>67287822
>being a fedora wearing women hater
>>67287877
>thinking that hating cuntish people equates to woman hating.
kek
> This post has gone on too long, but there’s so much still to say about these last few years. There’s the hubris of having the Doctor frighten away enemies by touting his reputation. There’s the moralistic preaching and speechifying. There’s the sheer boredom of the story arc mysteries, impossible to care about because they’re always waved away with some bit of nonsense made-up-on-the-fly. There’s the constant undermining and reversal of death. There’s the banalization of the Time War into a Lucasfilm space battle.
This, and much of what follows in this paragraph, is great.
Not going to bother with the comments much, but here's something (and this is two years ago):
> "because his puzzle boxes are not generally resolved with hand-waving but with alarmingly tight structure that requires attention to otherwise throw-away detail from episodes or even seasons earlier." Except that they're not. They're resolved by Moffat going "Ha! Fuck that noise, I'm tired of this puzzle box. It never mattered anyway."
- which is pretty much Heaven Sent, isn't it chaps?
>>67287665
I thought she was decent but unremarkable. There was potential in that half season with 11 but it was never realized and she seemed to be a place holder companion at times. I preferred her when 12 came along and she got fleshed out more and was given some flaws and motivation.
>You are offered a night with Jenna Coleman in a hotel to do whatever
>But you have to suck Ian Levine's cock and give Gareth Roberts a rim job beforehand.
Would you?
>>67287809
But why are you writing it as a quote?
>>67288009
>There’s the hubris of having the Doctor frighten away enemies by touting his reputation.
Didn't The Pandorica Opens through AGMGTW establish that Moffat was actually against this?
And that's a much better description of Time of the Doctor than Heaven Sent, in fact I'm bewildered as to what makes you bring up Heaven Sent in this context as the 'puzzle' isn't even that elaborate.
>>67288046
No, because:
A: I am not a homofag and
B: I don't think Coleman is anything special.
>>67288046
>>67288046
now I know how the prime minister in Black Mirror felt
>>67288124
>I am not a homofag
How do you know until you try it first?
>>67288046
Throw in some missing episodes and you've got a deal.
>>67288124
anon, people on here said previously that they'd let Levine anally penetrate them for Power of the Daleks - this really is a small ask.
>>67288088
No, because he keeps fucking doing it.
Heaven Sent looks like a puzzle, and then it turns out the solution is to biff it.
>>67287665
no. I was never too fond of the there-is-mystery-i-must-solve-mystery-thing. I could never get myself to care because the solution was always just going to be some stupid techno babble. The wait between the christmas special and the season finale was especially horrible because every day people posted the same stupid theories on what could be the mystery's solution and they were all equally stupid.
>>67288138
You mean the prime minister we literally have now?
Brooker SO needs to write for S10.
>67288183
By that same logic I do not know if I'm a paedophile until I fuck a kid. Are you encouraging me to fuck kids, anon?
>>67288009
>- which is pretty much Heaven Sent, isn't it chaps?
I don't think THIS is what's going on with Moffat. It's that there's no consistency control. There are always bits and pieces that don't fit, or don't follow properly from reveal. As if they are remnants from past rewrites.
>>67288257
Oops. I deleted one of the meme arrows. Was meant for >>67288183
>>67288251
Charlie was trying to warn us
>>67288250
remember all the retarded theories involving rose because the bar she worked had the word rose in it.
How many xmas speshuls has Capaldi done?
>>67287849
The rest of this piece is pretty disappointing. Graham seems to have fallen into the predicament that Lawrence Miles did, when the thing you despise is the only thing people want you to talk about, so you convince yourself you don't despise it *that* much so you don't feel wretched for continuing to talk about it. A person smart enough to sum up Moffat's problems the way he did two years ago has no business still watching this dogshit. Call it the fan's dilemma - Jack Graham is as astute as he can possibly allow himself to be and remain a Doctor Who fan. The fact that he remains a Doctor Who fan is why he can't quite catch up with me, but it's understandable - he has fan fame, I have the privilege of anonymity.
>>67288225
>No, because he keeps fucking doing it.
Er, like when?
He's done speeches but I honestly can't remember the last "I'm the Doctah so you had better run away from me now!"
Yes the Doctor decides to do something incredibly simple and stupid instead of giving in to the Veil's demands, but that doesn't represent Moffat throwing out his own puzzle box as he has done with all his series-length ones. The 'solution' in Heaven Sent is the looping itself, which is where all the clues are pointing to.
>>67288351
I remember that. People were saying there were all these references to Rose because she was going to be Rose and the clone Ten's daughter and that was going to lead into the 50th. People are crazy.
>>67288413
Just the two, nothing as GOAT as Carol
>>67287809
I said, why are you writing it as a quote? Did you write rules for /who/ that are for some reason never stated?
>>67288463
> He's done speeches
The solution in Heaven Sent is it wasn't a puzzle, it was bollocks like everything else.
>>67288463
>the last "I'm the Doctah so you had better run away from me now!"
The last one I'm aware of was in Flatline. There may have been one in s9 but I didn't watch it.
>>67288417
You should read his Zygon Inversion piece in which he admits it was ultimately never really Doctor Who he liked, but rather the 'blips' where it struck a chord with his ideology.
Please get a trip though.
>>67288467
It wouldn't have been any sillier than things that have happened.
>>67288529
Well that's something.
I haven't needed a trip usually, people recognise my writing style.
>>67288522
>The last one I'm aware of was in Flatline.
I deliberately didn't count that because he was literally in the process of killing them/sending them back to hell when he said it. There is a very important difference between that and the Doctor literally frightening away an enemy on the basis of his reputation.
>>67288579
kek
>>67288467
Haha yeah all the theories were pretty stupid.
The actual resolution to it all was really underwhelming too. Glad S8/S9 pretty much had no references to it aside from the writing on the chalkboard in Hell Bent.
>>67288474
They were pretty good though.
>>67288579
Don't take a trip. Trips are cancer. Do you really want to be associated with twats like Cloister and Cats?
>>67288579
Wait a minute. You're not Melanon are you?
>>67288648
Yes! See, I told you I didn't need a trip.
>>67288640
Cloister and Cats are good friends anon.
>>67288640Shut the fuck up, I'm trying to make him take a trip so I never have to read his tiny-minded gubbins again.
>>67288640
They seem no more or less twattish than anyone else to me, but I don't want the heat people get for using trips, and I haven't wanted to become a fixture or self-mythologise, which tripfriends get accused of doing.
>>67288686You cunning cunt. I like your style.
>>67288417
>The fact that he remains a Doctor Who fan is why he can't quite catch up with me, but it's understandable - he has fan fame, I have the privilege of anonymity.
>>67288667
Damn. I was on the verge of taking all those implicit claims of intelligence seriously.
>>67288417
>The fact that he remains a Doctor Who fan is why he can't quite catch up with me
RUN BOY RUN
>>67288798
Well it's true. Imagine if I started a blog called 'melanon's place' where I rant about Doctor Who? I'd be tied to that tiny morsel of imagined status forever. I'd have to watch that shit. Instead, I come and go as the mood takes me.
But imagine being Lawrence Miles, author of a decanonised subsidiary character less relevant even than Bernice Summerfield, dependant on trickledown from IP that disgusts you. Brrr.
>>67288929
>I... go as the mood pleases me
Please do.
>>67288803
I'm just saying I think I could do better than Graham at what he does, and to the degree that what we do overlaps, I've just got the edge because my rejection of the show is more complete, and I'm not starry-eyed about the classic series either.
>>67289019
... That said, I've only read two pieces. Maybe he's not as fannish as he seems, it sounded like he might not be from what >>67288529 said.
>>67289016
> retyping quotes
That's like a sixties restaged cliffhanger reprise.
>>67288579
>>67288667
They don't recognize your writing style, they recognize your ass-backwards logic and your narcissism.
>>67288929
I'm laughing at you because you a) are thinking of bitching about Doctor Who as a competition and b) think your anonymous 4chan posts are actual worth a shit.
>>67289120
It was intentionally shit as a parody
>>67289153
*actually
>>67288929
How do feel that a lot of people on /who/ hate you? Does it bother you?
>>67289193
No, of course not. If you hate someone who doesn't like a TV show you do, I can't take your hatred seriously.
Well, as a Doctor Who fan, I am interested in ideas rather than the show itself. Reading Melanon, Phil and Jack tend to reflect my opinion that I could write like that, I just don't want to be introspective.
>>67289193
do we hate him?
his schtick is getting a little old now but I thought he was entertaining
>>67289294
We hate you because of you, Melanon. Everything about your personality is detestable. You are not allowed to evade this.
>>67289323
>Letting the opinions of white men who hate being white and male be influences
>>67289153
It's not a question of competition, but of comparison. Most people were calling Graham autistic when his piece on Moffat was linked, I'm hardly likely to be jealous of that, in fact I defended him. I measured him against my own writing - why shouldn't I?
>>67289323
I like seeing Doctor crashing into someone else's stories. NuWho doesn't do it this often.
In classics stories are about some poor soul who tries to earn his paycheck by pumping farts of a giant squid. NuWho is about how Doctor is a lonely god or some shit.
>>67289383
It's better than being a Normie on Facebook
>>67289390
Because we have no idea what you've actually written, if anything, so the comparison doesn't mean anything.
>>67289334
Thank you, I think everyone involved has gained from our discussions on here.
REMINDER:
JUST
DON'T
REPLY
>>67289583
This. We apparently learned nothing from the Prog and Valley days.
>>67289383
Better that than white men who are literally terrified of being self-critical.
>>67289761
>high_impact_capaldick.gif
>>67289551
Well, if you've read my posts, and I guess they're all archived where everything else is, I'm comparing what he does to that. He seems to go to the logical conclusion, then refuse to draw the line under it. There's no point watching a neoliberal show for moments where it forgets to be neoliberal, unless of course you've got an audience for your Doctor Who writing that you wouldn't have writing about other things, or (worse) you're a fan who can't bring himself to look away. If you're the latter, how can you write as though you had a critical distance on it? However bad it gets, you know you'll be back. This is the weakness I see in his work - the premise it's based on.
So, leaving... that whole business... behind us, what's /who/ with you?
>>67289684
What were the Prog and Valley days?
>tfw never
>>67289854
The golden age compared to you
>>67289833
I've listened to The Gift. It was boring and slow and I didn't understand it entirely.
>>67289833
Falling behind in keeping up with the episode editions. Can we have a Troughton book thread next?
>>67289833
I sat through the second episode of Infernal Devices which was mostly farting about with Daleks and people getting pissy at each other. But now I can move on to the hyped Matt Fitton episode without feeling guilty about skipping.
Decided to read the Zygon piece.
> Every position of authority is filled by a woman (except for the Doctor’s) and it extravagantly fails the reverse Bechdel Test. Though there is an issue here. This kind of thing ignores the fact that in the real world women are severely underrepresented in positions of authority. And is it laudable to be in positions of military authority anyway? That’s neoliberal feminism. Girls can grow up to be Condoleezza Rice, hence feminist Utopia. And we trip over an old problem: do you lie about how represented people are in the real world in order to represent them better in the media? How many women judges or black judges are there really in US courts vs. how many turn up in Law & Order?
That's very good. The thing I particularly like so far about Graham is his dissection of Moffat's idea of empowerment, which is largely Miss Whiplash fantasies. I would never have been able to be bothered to dredge through the examples as he appears to have.
>>67289890
To be replaced by Katy Manning, who could fit your entire tackle in her mouth.
They should have done a episode with Charlie Heston in the old doctor who with Jon Petrie or a 3D computer Charlie on the new one with the new one in it like tenth or nepenthe.
What a way to show off to the classic cinematography fan or having this 3D digital Charlie on the new doctor who companion.
He could gene do a showers dance or the sword rain like jelly. Maybe use the original black and white but colourise it when he is singing and put the doctor on the as a 3D digital computer image.
>>67289972
Anything interesting on the closing speech. It's like Harness is going out of his way to imply most unfortunate implications.
>>67289879
erased from time
>>67289906
Erm, threads explicitly about books on /tv/ probably aren't the greatest idea but we can probably get away with a "general EU material" type thing.
>>67290027
Wut?
>>67290032
I'll let you know when I get there. This is great:
> It’s terrifying that such basic, baseline common sense should be seen as some kind of exceptionally politically committed statement. This is, essentially, standard liberal hand-wringing. The Good Ones don’t deserve the same treatment as the Bad Ones… and notice how the concern for the Good Ones entails the demonization of the Bad Ones. Would it be okay, O Concerned Liberal, if only the bombs could magically only hit the Bad Ones, the way we’re so often assured they do? After all, the Bad Ones are a Machiavellian threat, sneakily trying to trick us into alienating the Good Ones (our friends by whom we’ve done right). Oh and by the way… all it will take for the Good Ones to turn into Bad Ones will be one little mistake on our part. All Good Ones are Bad Ones in waiting. We want to do the right thing – of course we do! – so we need to avoid being tricked into making a mistake that will trigger the latent unreasoning, irrational, resentful rage of the Good Ones, and turn them into Bad Ones.
>>67290057
/lit/ edition?
>>67290027
..?
>>67290077
You know like take the slot of Charlie downing his sword thing and make it a 3D computer Charlie over the modern action?
Maybe he could dense roger Delgado master and the pert with more recent events and man on full 3D digital Charlie.
Or gene does the rain man on block with doctor number 13 )m(or 12)) doing the honky tonk on the strip with a full 3D image of gene computerised over the reform.
>>67290138
Ooh, that would be a hilarious shitstorm. They call themselves e/lit/ists and hate SF whilst circlejerking about Dostoevsky and whatever else they see as "patrician". I kind of want to materialize /who/ over there just to see the reactions.
>>67290032
>. It's like Harness is going out of his way to imply most unfortunate implications.
It always is.
>>67290032
Here we go:
> People have praised the Doctor’s great speech at the end of the second episode. Personally, I don’t think I’ve ever hated the Doctor more than at that moment. Reject the cycle of violence, says he, in favour of ‘forgiveness’. It is, of course, for the revolutionary to stop the cycle… the established power doesn’t have to because they want peace and forgiveness by definition. It is for the oppressed to forgive. The onus is on them. They must bear the burden of the greater moral responsibility. They must be the ones to prove their good intent, etc. Reluctance to do so is to be mocked as childishness, as a tantrum. As is the dream of Utopia (explicitly raised in order to be knocked down). It’s a childish dream because you haven’t got a plan. You need to have minutely detailed schematics and blueprints for the new society drawn up in advance before you can be taken seriously, before you can challenge the existence of the old – even if the old is killing you. Because the bourgeois imagination cannot handle the idea of actual freedom. Freedom, to bourgeois culture, is the freedom to be an atomised individual, a shopper, a voter, a taxpayer, a law-abiding citizen, one of the Zygons who just wants to live here and be left alone, etc. That’s the best there is in the impoverished, philistine bourgeois imagination. It can’t handle the idea of real freedom, radical freedom, freedom that doesn’t work like an RPG, freedom that’s more than the structurally circumscribed licence to move around inside pre-set limits.
>>67290347
> Even as it eternally chides the revolutionary for wanting just this, this is all it offers. Unless the revolutionary has those detailed schematics, then she is not to be taken seriously. She is just a dreamer, a utopian, a head-in-the-clouds fantasist, playing around with people’s lives for cynical, self-serving, self-deluding reasons. Of course, if the revolutionist does present you with the plans you demanded to see, you can then denounce her as wanting to force everyone to live the way she wants them to live.
> “Sit down and talk,” says the Doctor. Oh marvellous. Why didn’t the Palestinians think of that!? Or the blacks in apartheid South Africa? Or the Kikuyu in British-dominated Kenya? Or the Herero and Namaqua in German-dominated Namibia? Or the Native Americans? Or the Congolese in Belgian-dominated Congo? Or the slaves in San Domingue? (I could go on.) Don’t fight! Don’t try to overthrow and chuck out your oppressors – just be reasonable, sit down and talk. After all, all ‘we’ ever want is a reasonable negotiating partner, right? ‘We’ always mean well and want peace, by definition. If only these truculent, trouble-making, zealous, fanatical rebels would calm down, stop causing the problems, and talk to us. I’m sure we could thrash out an equitable arrangement. A nice compromise – between the powerless and their oppressors.
There's more. I think he might be more devastating if he made his tone slightly more measured, the anger only hitting home on the exhale, so to speak. But this is great stuff.
>>67290317
Tbf crime and punishment was a serial when o was younger on the BBC with the master form tennis doctors ran and the empower from star wank
>>67289972
>>67290108
>>67290347
>>67290414
>reposting large sections of his post in blatant violation of copyright law
Reported to the police.
>>67290347
I think I actually read it somewhere. He posted it in Sandifer's comments maybe?
Personally, I found that this entire story make me think less about terrorism or nationalist revolts and more about gay rights.
This is a story about people forced to hide their more or less nature fearing violence if ever exposed with villain plan being to make a stand and make others of her kind to announce that they exist and can not be swept under the rug. The final standoff is treated as mutually assured destruction, inexplicably equalizing coming out of closet with deployment of weapon of mass destruction. And there's a guy who just wants to have normal life pretending he's not a dildo man.
Right, enough pretending to be more severely impaired than you are, you lot, this is quite interesting.
> There is a strain of the revolutionary, the genuinely radical, in Doctor Who. It’s real and it’s in there, against all odds. I love it and I cherish it. But the fact is that it is only one strain amongst many, and is far from the most prevalent, consistent or uncompromised. Indeed, its existence could reasonably be said to be pure - if repeated - fluke. That it was more common in the classic series is owing to the fact that a great chunk of the classic series was made in the era of social democracy, during which socialism worth the name (revolutionary or reformist) was not the dead parrot it is usually thought to be now, the British working class was not yet as compromised a category or a group as it is today, and there were still great social struggles in which the Left were not entirely marginalised.
Has Jack Graham been reading my posts? This and what follows (http://www.eruditorumpress.com/blog/the-zygon-invocation/ for those who want to read the whole thing, and thanks to the anon who tipped me off about it) are Melanonesque.
>>67290347
The problems with the zygom episodes is that the try's to make a heavy hanger compare to the French image rant problems or he Charlie benson rankings that destroyed so frenchy French.
I think?
It might be about serious?
>>67290490
Fornicate the constabulary!
>>67290490
Thanks it's not eagle this easil.
Corn the cobs sea of eye care.
>>67290553
That's interesting, possibly the invasion imagery led him away from a sense of it as being about otherness generally.
I've often thought that Doctor Who had a weird attitude to otherness. This is a show whose representative of individuality is an alien, and whose friends tend to follow in his wake. There isn't much claiming your own power, but a kind of queer paternalism.
>>67290585
>>67290624
>>67290641
So you'd rather shit the thread than let a conversation happen? Doctor Who fans, folks.
>>67290653
It's queer because they have suckers on them like octupluts or a gigantic squid ?
Very fishing to meek guffaw.
>>67290553
>I think I actually read it somewhere. He posted it in Sandifer's comments maybe?
Jack is a contributor on Phil's website now, it got posted as its own entry. Phil said it was a privilege to host it.
So is there anybody cool outside of the Sandiforce that types pretty about Doctor Who?
> The truth is that I found watching ‘The Zygon Inv’ a wearisome, dispiriting, deeply unhappy experience… not so much because of anything wrong with the story itself, but rather because, as it unfolded, it seemed to have been designed to demonstrate to me that, blips aside, I don’t really like Doctor Who, not even old Doctor Who. It’s not a happy experience to realise that you don’t really like something that has consumed a great deal of your interest and passion throughout your life. It’s bad enough knowing what I always knew: that I was emotionally and intellectually over-invested in a commodity. Messers Harness and Moffat have, with ‘The Zygon Inv’ ably demonstrated to me that I have also allowed myself to focus too much on the blips.
Bravo. Though I do wish he'd spellcheck. 'Messrs' is in any case a bit of an old fanboy locution. Interestsing it comes up at the end of a very unfannish piece.
>>67290687
Chill your tiny wooden beans pinnochio, big boys are talking lel
>>67290749
Me, like I said.
>>67290779
>Doctor Who is a fucking shit, and I say it as a fan
>>67290836
Why don't you run a blog? You could show them all up.
> I think some people expected me to savage Harness and Moffat. On the contrary, I want to praise them for writing something that demonstrates the best of normal Doctor Who.
'The best of normal Doctor Who.' Exactly. I hope he can find a way out of fandom. I feel more grateful than ever that I've been able to make it simply an occasional diversion.
>>67290863
See >>67288929.
>>67287849
What is this quote and who's graham
>>67291115
That quote is from Jack's impressions/critique of The Witch's Familiar here
http://www.eruditorumpress.com/blog/my-hamster-is-february-or-jack-thinks-about-the-witchs-familiar/
>>67290553
Apparently there's a podcast that addresses this:
http://www.thewebofqueer.com/2015/11/ep-040-hybridized-allegories-and.html
http://www.thewebofqueer.com/2015/11/ep-041-truth-or-conformity.html
>>67291210
>Webofqueer
is this what happens when tumblr landwhales watch an episode of classic who?
>>67291711
Queer Who fans have been writing about the show since 80s fanzine culture. They talk about NuWho as well on that blog, from what I can see.
>>67291711
>>67291847
Subtext: exert yourself to click the link and find out.
The government knows!
How much will you give me for this book?
>>67291711
I'm going to guess the play on words is intentional.
>>67292005
It has a PVC fetish photo section in it. Really.
>>67291962
have you got any early Big Finish Bernice Summerfield books or Wildthyme on Top?
>>67290855
He did it, the absolute madman. He became the meme.
>>67292095
No big finish stuff .
The books were hard enough to get in America back in the day.
(Well the novels were always in stores but the other books were a pain)
>>67290580
>Has Jack Graham been reading my posts? This and what follows (http://www.eruditorumpress.com/blog/the-zygon-invocation/ for those who want to read the whole thing, and thanks to the anon who tipped me off about it) are Melanonesque.
Holy shit, you're narcissistic. No, nobody who makes an actual career of writing cares about your posts on a Tibetan sand mandala board and your writing style is not that original or unique.
>>67292544
It's not the style, it's the points made about why Doctor Who can't be other than shit now. We seem to have reached the same conclusion independently. My own career is partially based on writing, and yet here I am.
>>67293016
>it's shit because it doesn't always reflect my political beliefs
okay m8
>>67293190
That's not what he or I have said at all.
>>67292544
Wait - what actual career? He's a blogger. A blog is not a career.
>>67293474
I thought all the people at Eruditorum Press were professional academics?
>>67293243
>it's the points made about why Doctor Who can't be other than shit now
The only section you quoted as being "Melanon-esque" was saying the show is less revolutionary now due the changing political climate in Britain.
>>67293775
Haven't seen any reference to that. If so, we're on the same level, and it doesn't seem nutty to suggest he may have looked over here.
>>67293888
That's exactly what I'm saying. It never can reflect any decent value that it once did. There's no matter of opinion in there, or 'not always' about it - it's opposed now to anything I could believe in, quite apart from being a toy advert. It is of zero cultural value, if you take its original values seriously.
>>67292038
Yeah, there was a weirdly large amount of that with 90s Ace
>>67294966
>weirdly large
>>67294460
>It is of zero cultural value, if you take its original values seriously.
But as Graham points out, its "original values" were never all that radical to begin with, except occasionally. That's just a leftist fan meme. The new series isn't a betrayal of the classic series's fundamental values, it's just slightly more centrist now and apparently making you butthurt.
Also
>it's shit because it's opposed now to anything I could believe in
okay m8. My original point was that it's stupid to say a show is bad just because you don't agree with it, so clarifying the degree to which you disagree with it doesn't really change anything.
>le toy advert meme
okay m8
I'm going to go watch The Space Pirates now because that's genuinely more enjoyable than talking to you.
>>67295083
Is that real?
>>67295289
Yep, the legends are true.
>>67295289
Yes. It's right after the scene where she hugs him. Jenna definitely tasted the Capaldick that night.
>>67286793
Finally a reason to post this old shitty gif.
>>67296597
That thing is a 60s toaster?
>>67296684
No, it's a distant future toaster.
Chronological anon here, just finished foreign devils.
I don't think Cartmel's characterization of Zoe was quite right but that aside, it was excellent, the worlds of Carnaki and Doctor Who blended together well.
Onto fallen angels now.
>>67296959
Ooh nice, love a Doctor Who/Victorian Pulp crossover (pic totally related). Didn't know you were doing Telos - what Doctor do you consider Dalek Factor under?
>>67295111
Neoliberalism isn't *slightly* different from what Britain was like for most of the original run. What country are you from?
>>67287024
Girl in the fireplace
Impossible Planet
Satan Pit
All GOAT episodes
S9 only had one GOAT episode, but the average episode quality was much higher
>>67297371
Not sure actually, I haven't read it, but I know that it features an unknown doctor.
Might put it with war, given the content.
Actually, I've decided to throw in the DWM comics as well. at least the ones I can find.only because I found my IDW omnibus
anyone know where I can get them?
>>67298720
Great Scott, you really are chomping down every last dingleberry!
>>67298860
I'm in a good mood today, got a job offer today.
And if I ever take a trip, it has to be dingleberry now.
>>67298967
Congratulations! I don't know what you mean by a dingleberry trip though.
>>67298720
>https://mega.nz/#F!f4AkGBIa!9xpVH_A6hxpioWLqRCdMBw
I uploaded a good amount of them back in the day. Every TV Comic is up I believe, and I think I got most of the DWM comics up. I think they were still making 11 comics when I stopped, so obviously his are incomplete. I think 4 was the only other incomplete one as far as DWM comics go, but honestly it's been so long I don't know what is and isn't all there.
>>67299059
That's actually a fantastic start, thank you.
I don't think I'll be doing the TV comics, mainly because I've heard there a special kind of terrible.
As for the DWM I consider them a bonus, If I can find them, great, if not, I won't be to upset.
The fact that they're organized by title is a huge boon as well. That will make finding the proper ones much easier.
>>67299059
>.cbr
What would one use to read these?
>Hinchcliffe: Gothic Horror
>Williams: Wacky Humor
>Bidmead: Hard Science
>Saward: Edgy Mercenaries
>Cartmel: Subversive Politics
>RTD: Character Drama
>Moffat: Timey Wimey
>Chibnall: ???
What will his "thing" be?
>>67299503
Character Drama 2: This Time With Less Ambition
>>67299305
Yeah the TV Comics were never to be taken all that seriously. Although DWM tried making them at least partially canon in one of the 8th Doctor stories in which he describes his adventures with them as dreams. Those things used to be ridiculous to find, I was just really happy I managed to get them all which is why I brought it up.
>>67299380
Any comic book reader should do, but it's literally just a zip folder renamed, if you change it to zip you can extract it and read them in any photo viewer if you prefer that.
>>67299503
Moff's thing became character drama once capaldi took over
Reminder that reading
>>67299503
Hopefully science fiction but considering the state of DW I'mma go with soap opera rtd style stories
![TWthevictorianage[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Otas2Qd.jpg "TWthevictorianage[1].jpg")
Jesus BF is getting lazy, now everything they move to Victorian England. Look at that, they just added sideburns, ridiculous.
>>67300871
kek
>>67300615
Reminder that I don't read books.
>>67301063
Nice meme
>>67300871
Who's Ak Benedict? Someone new?
>>67301313
I guess so, been out of the loop with BF for a while. It seems like they have jumped the shark judging by some stuff I'm seeing
>>67301168
Thanks, I worked really hard on it :^)
I support of a qt friendly companion
>>67301897
I could tell how proud you were of it
>>67286793
This story forms kind of a weird parallel with The Smugglers. They're both the penultimate story of an incarnation of the Doctor and thus overshadowed by the story right after them, they're both painfully mediocre, they're both currently mostly missing and in both cases all these factors combine to make them stories that nobody really seems to care about.
>>67287280
He does realise that this is a show aimed at children, right?
>>67303427
Arguably the pattern continues with Monster of Peladon - if that one went missing, would anyone really miss it?
Hey guys, I'm trying to remember every case of implied/attempted rape in the Hartnell era. Off the top of my head I've got
>the Aztec sacrifice wanting to forcibly marry Susan
>the creepy beard guy trying to rape Barbara in The Snows of Terror
>Odysseus giving Cassandra to Agamemnon in The Myth Makers
Any more?
>>67304672
Yeah but that one's at least a sequel so some of Curse's importance rubs off on it a bit.
>>67304758
Sadly, there's already a resource for this.
http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Rape
>>67304826
It's got the Pertwee cage match scene too
>>67304836
But that doesn't mention any of the Hartnell-era stuff because it was always implied and the autists at TDC can't process information unless it's blatantly spelled out.
>>67292095
the fuck? since when has Wildthyme on Top been out of print?
Billie Piper is a yellow pig.
and your nightly reminder the Singing Towers are horsecocks.
>>67305564
Since the big Wildthyme sale like a year or so ago pretty much, I bought my copy then and just a few weeks later when I went to preorder Wildthyme Reloaded it wasn't available anymore
>>67306434
well, shit. That anthology doesn't seem to be downloadable anywhere on the internet either. That sucks
>>67301684
>I guess so, been out of the loop with BF for a while. It seems like they have jumped the shark judging by some stuff I'm seeing
Monthly Range is back on its feet after dreadful Hector stuff. River's new range is good.
The only thing jumping shark is new Graceless season 'cause just why and Churchill's box is very meh.
So the recent ISIS events pretty much confirmed another Harness story next year.
Fuck Tumblr pandering. I hope Moffat just goes all out and fucks them over like he kills Osgood again or something.
>there are 24 years worth of 12/River adventures waiting to be used by Big Finish
Moffat is a based man, I'm cumming out of joy
>>67305811
>mentions horsecocks
>doesn't supply proof.jpg
>>67307764
>whole series of DW and last episode of Sherlock are blatant tumblr pandering
maybe, depends if they take the drop of over a million viewers in s9 seriously
Doctor who vs the islamist extremists when?
my balls, they itch
