You know what's weird about Spier-man trilogy? Nobody is truly a bad guy, Green Goblin was a normal person before that green gas made him crazy, Octopus got controlled by evil AIs and in the end he actually fought off their influence and found redemption, Sandman was never anything, but sympathetic villian and Peter let him go in the end, Harry thought Peter killed his dad and also became good guy again, Venom is controlled by evil suit, even guy who killed his uncle in first movie actually didn't do it, people talk a lot about how all villians are connected to Peter, but never mention this fact
That's why it is shit.
>>67068348
just because you are bad guy doesnt make you bad guy
>>67068348
Do you want some irredeemably evil guy who kicks puppies for fun? Doc ock was great, wife dead and life's work in pieces, decides fuck it, gonna continue my work. Thought that was nice
>>67068348
Bruce Campbell (Mysterio) was a complete douchebag though. thesis refuted
>>67068348
I mention it all the time. It sucks. There's a difference between someone like Magneto who's sympathetic because he experienced some serious shit in his life, but does evil deeds of his own free will, and someone like Doc Oc who's only evil cause his crazy AI tentacles are making him that way.
>>67068348
>weird
Villains with a sympathetic element are pretty standard
>>67068438
The best villains are ones that have good motives for that they're doing. Good guys being crazy or controlled by stuff making them do bad things are a cheap cop out and even worse than them just being cartoonishly evil for no reason.
>>67068734
god damn. that build up that never got a climax.
literally would have been the best reveal.
did raimi ever confirm that was his plan? which movie it would have been?
fuck, i can't get over how good that would have been.
>>67068805
Absolutely this.
Actually Sandman is the most evil one, out of other villians 3 are normal people controlled by outside sources and one is misguided and thinks that it's Spider-Man who is the bad guy, Sandman chose to be criminal, muh daughter or not
>>67068805
>Maybe I could write some motivations for this character...
>OR he could just get hit with a plot device and suddenly he's evil
Best writing. Bravo Raimi.
I find those to be great. They were doing what they perceived to be good to them
Does Spider-Man execute people like this in the comics?
Pretty gruesome for a kids movie.
I did not realize Spider-Man went around murdering people in the night.
>>67068805
Agreed, my villain power rankings:
1. Passionate person with good motives who uses righteous ends to justify immoral means
2. Guy out for completely justifiable revenge because the good guy did something to them
3. Batshit insane but entertaining bad guy
...
9000. Generic bad guy who wants to take over the world
9001. Good guy being controlled by some kind of magic evil bullshit that changes him, but by the end of the movie they redeem themselves
Spiderman isn't truely a good guy, he just got bit by a radioactive spider.
And Eddie Brock was always an asshole.
Modern-Nietzschean ethics bled over into comics and pulp fiction in the early 20th century. A morality that rejects the dialectic of traditional religion. That is, there is the light and the dark that are locked in eternal struggle. Many superhero films reject this and one often finds that these fascistic and morally ambiguous ideas; that are too uncomfortable to the current intelligentsia -- see Rope, etc; are driven down into comics, pulp, and superhero movies.
The morality of Batman, Superman, and other comic book heroes are egregious in modern liberal circles (Hollywood being at the center). Once these heroes ascend into the lives of ordinary people, once they get the attention of serious critics, the heroes are warped and twisted into something totally different. Those in control of the film industry would not allow such fascistic, Nietzschean, or Nationalist heroes on the screen. These heroes are vigilantes who follow their own code of morality.
Notice how these heroes are castrated in modern times creating "cape shit". The heroes lose all of their appeal because they cease to be what they are. The Jews despise heroes because they are a craven and puny race of people. The heroic is alien and threatening to them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyGuS5WiPk8
The way they get around these "problems" inherent in the characters and the source material is to either parody the characters' "hyper-masculinity", make them homosexual/feminine (a la Avengers), or to force the characters to have an overtly left wing political slant. Either by expressing humanist, liberal views, (such as Captain America being a pacifist), or by parodying "right-wing" politics. Another way to avoid the fascistic heroes is to replace them with the weak and puny. Black characters, women characters in place of men, etc.
Comic book heroes are fascist heroes which is why we love them so much. When they become spineless liberal pushovers, and tumblr capeshit we despise them.
>>67068348
there was a trend in the late 90s early 2000s to do this with villians to make the materiel feel more mature.
honestly, it doesn't fit for all villians like say, Dr. Doom.
>>67068913
Taken directly from the comics.
It makes a villian more interesting when they have some morality and aren't just born an evil monster that wants to kill everything for no reason.
>>67068395
That's why it's good, you chucklefuck.
They're villains with at least a little bit of character development and aren't just bad for the sake of being bad like every MCU villain.
>>67069742
Spider of Murder
>>67068348
sandman killed uncle ben
>>67068348
Goblin was fine because deep down he was a horrible person anyway that only gave a shit about himself and his own success, all the things he did as Goblin were probably things I fantasized about doing as Norman, which were obviously brought to the surface with the gas.
Doc Oc, while a great villain in the movies, was a bit lazy with the AI turning him evil.
>>67069856
Goblin was normal guy who's agression was amplified with serum, that's why he murdered anyone who pissed him off
>>67069897
Exactly, which explains why Harry was able to stay relatively normal after the gas outside of wanting Spidey dead, although I can't remember if it was shown to be an improved version.
>>67069012
>who uses righteous ends to justify immoral means
>Not "who uses immoral means to reach righteous ends"
Git gud, m8. People don't use ends to justify means.
>>67069990
uh yes they do
>YOU KNOW HOW MANY JEWS I SACRIFICED?
>>67069647
>Comic book heroes are fascist heroes
Literally what?
>>67069990
>People don't use ends to justify means.
>Comrades we need gulags to reach communism
>>67068913
>effectively superhuman
>like one or two blades which hadn't even been pulled out, so it's not like he bled to death in 5 seconds
>wounds are far too low to have pierced any vital organs
How did this kill him so quickly?
>>67070550
it tore into his vital organs, crushed his abdomen and staked him to the wall. yea he died too quick but that was just for the shot. he was gonna die anyway
>>67068348
Eddie Brock was evil before he even got the symbiote.
>>67069647
A lot of superheroes were literally designed by Jews and are metaphors to how they see themselves (morally and intellectually superior outsiders, subject to persecution) combined with wish fulfillment (namely their desire for might and overt superiority). This is especially apparent with Superman and the X-Men.
If Raimi got his way (Sandman & Vulture) wouldn't that mean the supervillains are all Spidey's seniors? Does he have something against old men?
The butler
>>67069827
He dindu nuffin, Norman was an idiot.
>>67068348
loved dr octupus and gobbie, but i was really looking forward to seeing sandman be a magnificent bastard with his unrestrained powers and then i saw he had a little girl with fatal movie syndrome and knew it was the beginning of the end
the birth of sandman scene still gives me feels tho
>>67071481
He just wanted to compete. Emo Spidey broke his camera and the only choose he had was doing fake ass photoshop work. He was unsuccessful on other thing from his life.
https://youtu.be/2fXAGC_B2Ys
That final take is amazing.
>>67069647
Superman is literally a Jewish creation whose name is a fuck you to Nietzsche.
>>67072335
>how they see themselves (morally and intellectually superior outsiders, subject to persecution)
More like how it's actually is.
>>67073362
Fuck studio-meddling. Apparently, Sony found it too scary to use it in a kid's movie. Yet things like this >>67070303 were left in there in the final version.
>>67068348
VIRAL MARKETER
>>67069990
Whilst I concur that he probably meant it the other way round. You are most definitely wrong. People use the ends to justify horrible means all the time. They, too, make for interesting villains. One might argue more interesting.
Hell, he might've gotten it the right way round after all.
>>67075595
Goddamn, I did not meant to include the word "horrible" in there.
