I've (finally) been going through Tarkovsky's films and while I love certain aspects of them, I find it difficult to get very much out of them overall because of how prevalent the concept of faith and religion is in most of them. I'm not a die hard atheist, but when these scenes that are supposed to be profound statements of reaffirmed faith that I'm assuming are meant to leave a big impact on the viewer like the final part in Andrei Rublev happen, I just feel nothing at all.
Anyone else have this experience with his films? Am I putting too much emphasis on the faith/religious stuff?
>inb4 some 4chan pseud can't wait to extol the virtues of christianity and posts about how atheists are idiots itt
>Am I putting too much emphasis on the faith/religious stuff?
nah that's whats he's all about nonetheless
>Am I putting too much emphasis on the faith/religious stuff?
Yeah I think so. To me, the end of Andrei Rublev (and the whole movie really) is more about artists and the creative process. Im an atheist too, so maybe I'm just downplaying the religious aspects to suit my own world view.
Yeah you are putting a lot of emphasis on it.
If you read the Bible cover to cover it's basically a guide to optimism[1]. Tarkovsky is living in a period in time where artistic creativity is perverted by a monolithic power structure, books were banned and you need permission to publish, they would be heavily edited by the state, movies were censored. Russians feared an American invasion any moment, people were accused of being spies, neighbours who had known each other all their lives were in panic and turning on each other. Paranoia about the bomb, another great war, the spread of American Imperialism.
So naturally he makes movies with a religious connotation because he wants to give people hope for a better time.
Believe it or not, many Russian intellectuals of the period 40s-50s, were only communists in name and strongly hated the perversion that had taken control of their nation. You see they saw how brutal and savage people rose to the top and became enforcers for the party, silencing dissidents and they watched as millions were forced into internment camps for slave labor for the most petty and innocuous of perceived crimes.
Tarkovsky rose to prominence during a period known as the:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khrushchev_Thaw
He would never have had a voice in Stalins Russia.
[1] It's a guide to many things as it covers every imaginable human topic. Primarily it's purpose is to give hope to people without hope, this is why Christianity spread to the poorest regions of the planet as missionaries found an attentive audience among the suffering and miserable nations torn apart by colonialism and war.
we don't discuss actual cinema here
>>67031916
>American Imperialism
What imperialism do you speak of? Not that I mean to derail the thread into a /pol/ debate.
>>67031824
What's wrong with torrenting movies? Or do you just mean those clients?
>>67032233
Not him but I assume he means American economic domination
>>67032233
Our presence in Germany and other places in Europe
"Imperialism" isn't really the best word for it
>>67031695
I am atheist, but I empathize with religious devotion. I don't think it is about christianity at all but about a state of mind, an attitude of total selflessness, of admitting yourself to fate. It is about passion. People who do not have passion cannot be argued into it. They will mock you and feel superior.
>>67036165
That's Orthodox Christianity for ya
>>67032233
Read a fucking history book.
>>67031824
Dont be edgy, tarkovsky is great
>>67031824
>>67037177
Yeah, this seriously needs to die
>>67031695
What about movies made by Bergman or Dreyer. I dont think Tarkovsky's movies are supposed to be detained in just a religious doctrine or ideology. The guy was obsessed withthe notion of spiritual enhancement through his work though, but it was more by a way of looking for a truth that does not find its roots in emotions (the cathartic) nor in mere rationality. Thats why he admired so much the stillness of those paintings and the lives of those painters who were supposed to have, in order to paint, simmilar lives to the saints they portrayed.
>>67033834
utorrent used to be adware trash and would covertly install bitcoin miners. still don't trust them.
>>67031824
>entry level is bad!
Why does this meme still persist? Tarkovsky is one of the eternal GOATs of cinema.
>>67037580
>did he actually die not knowing he was a hack?
Call him pretentious, but at least he had true passion for the arts
>>67039529
Dont forget..
>He is a pleb and hates anything original or independent
He was one of usone of us:^)
>mfw reading Sculpting in Time
He really was a genius.
What's your favorite Tark? Mine is Zerkalo.
>>67039925
>What's your favorite Tark? Mine is Zerkalo.
Mine is Nostalghia
>>67031916
DFW pls
>>67039925
Really wonderful book. I wonder how many directors nowadays would be able to make at least a mediocre non fiction book besides Bela Tarr and Malick.
>>67041379
I would love an autobiographical book from Malick. Not even just about his films, but his whole life...it seems so intriguing.
Then again, at this point I'd just settle for a five minute interview.
>>67031916
>If you read the Bible cover to cover it's basically a guide to optimism
What does this have to do with Tarkovsky? No one would call him a Bible thumper, in fact he was heavily influenced by Oriental/Buddhist philosophies. He preferred a more personal, mystical kind of theology and spirituality, based on the individual, autobiographical images and memory. One of the few times he quotes the Bible directly in his films is when he has a character recite a passage from Revelation, which could hardly be said to be an optimistic book. It's true though, that the thrust of Andrei Rublev is about finding faith in a harsh world, just like in Nostalghia and Sacrifice. But to say that the Bible's optimism (which can easily be argued to not be the case) influenced him a lot is to diminish the more universal form his poetic and aesthetic worldview shaped his filmography.
>>67042746
>I would love an autobiographical book from Malick.
He already made a film trilogy, what more do you want?
>>67043673
An insight into his filmmaking techniques and methodology? His time in Europe?
>>67043774
>his filmmaking techniques and methodology
Love in the moment
>His time in Europe?
Fucking hot Parisian bitches
Tarkovsky is primarily concerned with human suffering and the way humans deal with that suffering.
Humans have desires that they don't fully understand, the use technology to distract themseves, they indulge in the selfish rather than looking for something larger than themselves.
It's pretty important to go into tarkovsky understanding that he's kind of a romantic in that he feels that society is a corrupting influence on man and that nature is a major source of liberation that people, especially "modern" people ignore. Like, if you watch Solaris, you get the distinct impression that Tarkovsky does not think space travel is good. In effect he's saying, "stay on earth. There's nothing for humans up there".
>>67044156
...and is interesting opposing that vision of nature to the one of Triers' Antichrist:HumanNature is evil and thats why we escape and built ourselves walls against it.
This may be the wrong place to ask, but: what's supposed to be good about Tarkovsky? What should I be watching for? I don't get him at all.
>>67031695
Personally, I find The Pest (1997) to be Tarkovsky's greatest work.
What I found refreshing about The Pest was how it strayed away from a typical three act structure of a story and instead stuck with a two act story. The first act establishes the characters, Pestario and the Shank family, and focuses on their relationship, where the Germans pursue the Latino in the cultural crossroads of Miami. The act ends with the escape from the island.
The second act of the story is the character's adaptation to the “real” world. In this case, Pestario has to learn about reality as it is, and psychologically move out of the island on which he was hunted. The movie continues with the strong philosophical undertones of reality vs. imagination while focusing on the predator/prey relationship.
The very final scene of The Pest is also a mirror of the first act, where the two characters return to the island and say their final goodbyes to a place that both destroyed and gave life.
Faith in movies doesn't bother me at all. I'm firmly atheist but love Rublev and The Last Temptation of Christ, largely due to how those films convey the characters faith to me. It just empathy for them and their mindset
However, films about conflicts of faith are beyond me. Any scene debating the existence of God seems silly. Faith is a choice, if it's causing you such trouble just stop choosing to believe in it. I know that's reductive but I can't give a shit about those "problems"
>>67046310
Faith without doubt is not faith, just passive indoctrination. Most "believers" of any religion fail to distinguish between these two as they also dont understand the difference between to adore and to revere (even though one is considered a sin)
>>67046678
I get what you're saying and agree. I meant more when doubt is overpowering faith, at that point just drop it
