Was Tony evil?
>>66992348
for you
>>66992361
is tonyposting the new baneposting?
Yes and no, at home he's a good man, at work he's not. Just like a lot of people, sometimes the roles are reversed.
>>66992348
I think he was a normal guy who convinced himself he was a gangster. Thats why he is a normal guy in his coma dream, but theres nothing he an do about it, after a life of violence I dont think he knows any other way.
>>66992348
He was born into a life of crime. He never really had the choice to be anything else.
essentially he didnt care about anyone but himself. even his relationship with his friends and family was gauged on his self satisfaction. but really its more of a character flaw than evil, though the actions he took in his life were unquestionably evil.
its a really layered show.
the idea the show was pushing is tony's evil was entirely a result of his upbringing and environment, but his true self was a good person and the schism between who he truly was and what his life had made him become was the source of all his problems.
>>66992841
>but his true self was a good person and the schism between who he truly was and what his life had made him become was the source of all his problems.
Wew lad.
>>66993025
yea, pretty much.
the larynx guy would say there is no good and evil, only tornados
>>66992675
What about the dream
Evil is a gross reductive overstatement
I don't think he was a bad guy deep down in his heart. Had he grown in a different environment he would have been a very different person. Unfortunately the gabagool life chose him so the good traits of his character got mixed up with a lot of bad attitudes. Let's just say that if he truly was evil then he's the last one to blame for it
>>66992348
I think he's just not like everybody else
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C9vZL-xE4CQ
>>66992348
Hes a gobagool.
>>66992348
It's a conundrum in fiction
We like to believe that criminals follow some sort of code or that their hands are being forced. But really they choose to take things they didn't earn and to shirk the law. Is it evil? That's up to you really
I think he was a psychopath that they hinted at and pretty much didn't have feels
>>66994460
Tiny Tears?
>>66994514
Jesus Uncle June was a cunt
>>66994460
He had as many feels as anyone else, even if he wanted to be the strong silent type
>>66992348
https://www.arconaitv.me/soapnos/
current episode: I Dream of Jeannie Cusamano
>>66993796
Fucking lel
>>66994581
He honestly has to be 80lbs slimmer in this gif than in the last season.
Hell, maybe 130. You can't even tell when your dealing with such large amounts put on.
>>66994563
I can't recall many. First episode with the Ducks. Anger at his coalburning daughter. Got pissed at Janice a lot and hated his mom too.
>>66994776
>>66994563
He had shitload of feelings. Thats why he addresses the "strong silent type", because he wants to not have the feels. It messes up with his work and his life.
Good examples are the ducks, the whore that gets killed and then the horse.
When you are the boss, or anything in the lead when it comes to mafia - you arent supposed to show emotions. Its a business and you are supposed to be strong, silent and act out only if it benefits your business. Not to mention the connection with conservative old italian culture.
Tony was a moody fuck. That's why he had a close bond with Christopher. He saw the conflict in him and understood what is like. The difference was Chris couldn't handle the feels without booze and drugs while Tony managed until the panic attacks started
>>66994966
That actually makes sense. Plus Tony imagined himself as a father figure to Chris and he wanted to help him understand how to handle the feels.
>>66995024
>>66994966
Here's a question:
By suffocating Chris, did Tony fulfill his desire to suffocate his own son, i.e. AJ?
>>66995049
I see that as a business decision more than a decision done by feelings. He knew chris was back to drugs so it was only a question of time until he fell apart, again.
>>66995049
His son was the sociopath that Tony wanted to be...no feels.
So no he was in a way killing himself when he killed Christopher,instead I think he envied his son and daughter.
>>66995138
But Tony didn't know AJ pulled all that criminal shit did he?
>>66995138
AJ might've been a sociopath but he was also a huge beta cuck and it's only the second part that Tony ever saw.
had to drop the show at the end of season 2. how the fuck are diarrhea hallucinations considered good television? and for that matter how is basic family drama with some crime fiction thrown in considered good?
>>66995166
ahh but he envied the fact that aj didn't have to be a criminal..the fact that aj was a criminal might of been unknown to tony but it doesn't change aj's personality.
>>66995346
Aj was a beta cuck because he was brought up a beta cuck...if he had been brought up hardcore...he would of been a stone killer.
Tony was cucked by his wife who wanted a normal life for her kids and tony just went along with it.
>>66995474
>Aj was a beta cuck because he was brought up a beta cuck...if he had been brought up hardcore...he would of been a stone killer.
Nah no way, he would have made it to Bobby-tier at most.
>>66992570
He could've made pots in Peru
Where is this AJ is a sociopath meme coming from?
Kid cared about brown Muslim terrorist children more than he did his family. Fucked up but he had feelings as cucked as they were
>>66995528
He literally fucked some Somalian douchebag up and that other normie. He had dat edge.
>>66993836
You mention "the dream" as if there was only 1 dream sequence
>>66996748
You know which one damnit
>>66992841
I think it had a lot more to do with personal fulfillment rather than good Tony trying to salvage his life from a bad environment
He was actually very capable of empathy. A victim of circumstance but also a violent criminal.
I think you see the best example of this when Joe Pantoliano kills that pregnant stripper.
No true sociopath would empathise like that or especially imagine if it was his daughter.
Movies like Goodfellas only told you half the story. Guys like Henry Hill were complete degenerates. Having coke fuelled orgies in front of their kids - they did not give a fuck about anyone.
>>66995138
>His son was the sociopath that Tony wanted to be...no feels.
how in the world did you get that? That's not true at all
>>66994514
He really gained a lot of weight and lost a lot of hair after the first season.
He didn't have the makings of a varsity athlete.
He wasn't evil, he was just the mother fucking fucking one who calls the fucking shots
>>66992514
Aren't most gangsters just normal guys?
Except for maybe Paulie and Ralph.
>>66992570
>it is society's fault
go vote for hilary
>>66996853
Yeah the thing I didn't like about Henry Hill was that you were made to sympathize with him when he in fact was a completely horrible person.
>>66995528
This.
People just don't know what a sociopath is it seems
>Kevin Finnerty episode
>He gets to the "party"
>Steve Buscemi ushering him in
>You can see the faint outline of Livia, except with devil ears
Rewatch the scene, it's easy to miss. He was going to hell senpai.
>>66998982
He got a chance of redemption though, but he blew it
>>66999128
>>66992422
Verbally abusive to his wife
Bullies his son
Sabotages his daughters relationship
>Good
>>66999182
>Verbally abusive to his wife
She was kind of a cunt.
>Bullies his son
He only did it a couple of times and apologized afterwards
>Sabotages his daughters relationship
Only with Raheem Ginsburg or whatever his name was. He liked Finn and got him a job.
>>66999168
i dont see shit
>>66999238
Go rewatch S6a
>>66999182
>Implying her nagging, throwing tony out of his own home, threatening with divorce after he signed some papers so she gets the inheritance if he dies makes tony """"verbally abusive""" to her
>Implying Tony doesn't know he should be showing tough love to his son because he knows AJ needs it but Carmela cockblocks him whenever he tries it ie "sending him to military school, so he ends up a pussy that almost kills himself
>"Sabotaging" a relationship was only out after her pussy/virginity to begin with, let alone looking fucking ugly
I'm glad you ain't one of my parents
Guys,post the webm.
>>66999304
>>66999304
or this one?
The Sopranos really isn't about good and evil.
>>66999304
>>66998982
Officially creeped the fuck out thanks anon
>>66998982
can you tell me where you see that? I can't
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GTAfq3i9Bs
Tony was an asshole, did everything for personal pleasure and would deliberately undercut those around him who were happy (bringing up Janice's son at the dinner table at her and Bobby's house, beating up the city planner who was fucking Irina). He exhibited textbook signs of sociopathy, like empathy with animals, lack of interest in others' well-being, etc. and did not seem capable of changing who he was in the slightest (Melfi did finally give up on him).
Yet, there were some traits about him that could be considered 'good', mostly the care he exhibited for his family, convictions he was brought up to hold to high importance.
The show seems to suggest that the reason he is the way he is stems from his upbringing and the circumstances of his life in the Jersey Mob, and how his actions are echoing through his children, particularly AJ, to propagate through generations. It seems to be making the point that humans are largely victims of deterministic reality, we exist in a certain time in a certain place, and we bear convictions that have been instilled in us since birth, convictions that are very much products of our upbringing. So a lot of it is technically not our 'fault', just as Tony didn't really have a lot of control over the way he turned out.
However, the show also leaves some room for free will, self-reflection, and the ability to change and better oneself. Exemplified by the practice of psychiatry, which is designed to help people rewire their mental hangups and escape their traumatic pasts. Season 6 is particularly important for this, it has an over-arcing theme of reflection and the over-importance we place on our petty ego-driven day to day acts. The finale communicates this best, showing life as merely a series of tenuous moments that are not guaranteed to be there in perpetuity, as life can be over in an instant. Tony never realized this and could not ever see the bigger picture despite coming close after his coma, which was a shame
>>66995474
>Aj was a beta cuck because he was brought up a beta cuck...if he had been brought up hardcore...he would of been a stone killer.
>last episode
>AJ wants to join the military
>turns out he cares about the conflicts in the world
>military experience would surely harden him up and teach him discipline
>parents say no and spoil him even more by giving him a car and a cushy job
>>66999994
didn't AJ have the same panic attacks as Tony?
>>67000060
Yes. He had them in school, but school didnt report to the parents.
And I think he had one just before they wanted to send him to military school.
>>66995083
Also Pussy was bought down by the FBI because he was dealing heroin on the side, Adriana was bought down because of the drug dealing in her club.
The second that people in the organisation started with the drugs they became automatic liabilities as the feds could use that as leverage over and beyond the usual RICO charges they'd usually have.
>>67000313
Do you mean brought?
>>67000673
I did, sorry senpai.
Tony was a good guy who had the unfortunate condition of having both a horrible temper and a short fuse. I know people like that in real life. Great guys until they get drunk or something sets them off.
>>67000825
But Tony made his living off murder and extortion.
>>67000839
True, but that went with the territory. You can't really just quit the Mob. I guess what I'm saying is that if Tony never got dragged into the Mob, he would be a good guy with a bad temper and a short fuse.
when tony showed AJ the italian neighbourhood that the blacks moved into i didnt get it. wouldnt the mafia want italians to take over why run away?
>>66994966
Gabagool? OVAA HEREEEEEEE
>>66994966
>>67000983
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EHFRYVxhd8
>>66997834
fuck that scared the fuck out of me
>>67000914
they're criminals they dont care about anything
>>67000914
It was a cheap neighbourhood, most Italians didnt want to live there after they made enough money
>>66994460
Sociopath. Melphi didn't want to treat him anymore when she figured it out.
Tony isn't really in control, his illness is.
>>67001180
And by illness you mean upbringing.
Yep.
I like him on the show though.
>>67002091
He's very charming. You can't help but sympathize with him.
>>66997233
ayyyy
