Sir, I don't understand. Who needs a knife in a nuke fight anyway? All you gotta do is push a button, sir.
I prefer Zim's answer in the novel
>>66752916
Which was? We don't read books here boy
>>66752726
>push a button
>>66752916
Shut up fag. Starship Troopers isn't an adaptation of the book it's a parody.
It's like watching Brazil and saying "Wow this isn't exactly the same story as 1984. This shit sucks"
>>66753242
>"Well... you see, sir? If we can use an H-bomb — and, as you said, it’s no checker game; it’s real, it’s war and nobody is fooling around — isn’t it sort of ridiculous to go crawling around in the weeds, throwing knives and maybe getting yourself killed... and even losing the war... when you’ve got a real weapon you can use to win? What’s the point in a whole lot of men risking their lives with obsolete weapons when one professor type can do so much more just by pushing a button?"
>Zim didn’t answer at once, which wasn’t like him at all. Then he said softly, "Are you happy in the Infantry, Hendrick? You can resign, you know." Hendrick muttered something; Zim said, "Speak up!"
>"I’m not itching to resign, sir. I’m going to sweat out my term."
>"I see. Well, the question you asked is one that a sergeant isn’t really qualified to answer... and one that you shouldn’t ask me. You’re supposed to know the answer before you join up. Or you should. Did your school have a course in History and Moral Philosophy?"
>"What? Sure — yes, sir."
>"Then you’ve heard the answer. But I’ll give you my own — unofficial — views on it. If you wanted to teach a baby a lesson, would you cut its head off?"
>"Why... no, sir!"
>>66753403
I said prefered the answer in the book, both are perfectly valid with respect to the goal(s) of the author of each fiction
>"Of course not. You’d paddle it. There can be circumstances when it’s just as foolish to hit an enemy city with an H-bomb as it would be to spank a baby with an ax. War is not violence and killing, pure and simple; war is controlled violence, for a purpose. The purpose of war is to support your government’s decisions by force. The purpose is never to kill the enemy just to be killing him... but to make him do what you want him to do. Not killing... but controlled and purposeful violence. But it’s not your business or mine to decide the purpose or the control. It’s never a soldier’s business to decide when or where or how — or why — he fights; that belongs to the statesmen and the generals. The statesmen decide why and how much; the generals take it from there and tell us where and when and how. We supply the violence; other people — ‘older and wiser heads,’ as they say — supply the control. Which is as it should be. That’s the best answer I can give you. If it doesn’t satisfy you, I’ll get you a chit to go talk to the regimental commander. If he can’t convince you — then go home and be a civilian! Because in that case you will certainly never make a soldier."
>>66753492
Busey McStabbedhand was better.
>>66753453
Also, in the novel, Hendrick is the one who gets court marshalled and flogged, not Rico
>>66753613
Seconded.
>>66753453
Sounds like a yawnfest, the kino portrays this scene much better
>>66753492
>>66753453
Thank you. I'm now going to read the book.
>>66752916
Considering Sergeant Zimis infinitely more badass and sympathetic in the novel it's no surprise. But he was portrayed by Clancy Brown so I can't complain.
>>66753684
Pls describe
>>66753720
He just gets to do a lot more and saying what would largely be spoiling things from the novel. Hell, he gets his own character arc.
>>66753492
>>66753453
Never thought I'd gain some intelligent insights about war from a Sci-Fi book
I might give it a read after all
>>66753720
(That guy who is going to read the book, don't read this shit)Hendrick gets his shit pushed in because he defies a 'freeze' manoeuvre in training, after landing on an ant hill or something, Zim comes up and whacks him for it and Hendrick hits him back, but he only gets flogged because he tries to argue his side and openly admits to the highest up guy in the boot camp that he struck his superior officer, at which point everyone's hands were tied and he had to be flogged.
Rico basically overhears at length Zim talking over with the higher up guy how shitty and disallusioned the whole thing made him feel, how he knew Hendrick could have made a good soldier but that nobody involved had any option but to follow things through to the letter of the law. It's basically the reason drops the whole drill sergeant thing and becomes an MI grunt. One of the few things the book and movie have almost exactly in common is Zim turning back up at the end after he captures the brain bug.
>>66753876
You should read. A lot of people shit on it because MUH DISAGREEMENT WITH IDEOLOGY, but it's an interesting read.
>>66753876
Between ST and The Forever War there isn't much, but there's some good shit in those two.
If I remember right they're both on the recommended reading list for some or all branches of the US armed forces, ST for anyone non-com or below in rank (your average soldier) and TFW for anyone above (in a commanding position of some kind), which is pretty neat
>>66753876
Heinlein is the man, the moon is a harsh mistress is as insightful
>>66753876
>>66753960
I was a little kid when the movie came out. Heard there was a book and thought the book came out after the movie. It had some wildly gay ass cover art and thought the book looked stupid so never read it. I should read it finally now.
>>66753453
>If you wanted to teach a baby a lesson
>You’d paddle it
Whoa rude
>>66753876
The book is unapologetic in being extremely pro-war and that the only way to be a good civilian is through military service (unironically)
Verhoeven's Dutch sensibilities couldn't handle it and he went full parody with it making them look like Nazis
>>66753492
That's a great response because it reveals how insane the speaker is
>>66753453
I understand the reasoning but i disagree with it. While annilating a race is not ideal if they pick a fight with you, why should we risk our lives to try to spare theirs? Wouldn't it be better to make 1 big example?
Imagine if the USA had nukes right after Pearl Harbor. If he dropped one on the Germans or Japanese at the beginning of 1942 that could have ended things right there and forced a surrender.
Wouldn't that have been the kinder thing to do perhaps as opposed to letting the war drag out for 3+ more years. How many more lives would have been saved?
>>66754272
Fuck off and go hug some trees you wine-sipping Communist dicksuck.
>>66754306
>dropping a nuke in the middle of Europe
Jesus fucking Christ you unbelievable cunt
>>66754344
A stealth mission could have been done. We did do a stealth mission and hit Japan after Pearl Harbor.
>>66753897
You forgot howZim feels personally responsable for the incident, because he let himself get hit because he wasn't on his guard. I feel it wasn't so much disillusionment with the system, it was a feeling of inadequacy as an instructor.
>>66754306
The fact that people argue heatedly over whether nuking the Japanese was justified even 3+ years into the Pacific Theatre conflict is evidence for the fact that that line of reasoning wouldn't have been enough.
You're more than likely right, but you still need the empirical evidence (in this case 3+ years of bloody warfare) to justify using that kind of force, the same way even if someone is 99% likely to have committed a murder, you need to be 100% certain before you can imprison them. It's not a perfect system.
>>66754340
Not the person you replied to
But why would disagreeing with Fascism make you a Communist?Did you actually understand the book?
>>66754344
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_bomber_will_always_get_through
;)
>>66753613
>>66753642
>Making an easy cheap joke is better than explain the purpose of war
>>66754142
You should see how Heinlein tells the reader to train his dog.
>>66754625
I don't k ow man. Zim had a point. Sure it was funny but it was effective. god damn I was five but I understood it.
>>66754204
>and that the only way to be a good civilian is through military service (unironically)
no you just had to be in any government service
and so many people wanted to be citizens they had to invent new shitty jobs just to try to fill quotas and deter so many applicants
>>66754736
>Zim had a point
Nowhere near as important as the point made in the novel.
>>66754773
Yeah and in a novel that's fine but had he gone off on a rant for 5 minutes for a throwaway remark in the film it would've been boring
>>66754381
>>66754540
So you read that and thought the issue is whether it can be done? You're that retarded?
>>66754773
Book response would not have translated well to film or fit the tone of the movie. The movie response was perfect for the movie.
>>66754773
That point is made throughout the movie, it's a good cut.
>>66754773
You are being trained to stop an enemy by any means necessary. Maybe you don't want to fight with nukes. Maybe it is better that you disable his hand. You are after all being ordered to disable his hand. Not vaporize his people. That's not your decision to make. Learn to throw that knife to disable the hand because you are ordered to.
Fuck sure it's a joke for BuseyMcstab hand but God damn there's. Depth there you dried out foreskin.
>>66754773
I can only imagine how hilarious it would be to see the audiences faces when the movie slows to crawl as Zim gives a five minute rant/lecture about what it means to be a solider. It would be so out of place. Maybe if it took place in the co-ed shower though, they could make it work.
It would also be that much more hilarious when those "wise" amazing statesmen and generals send a hundred thousand infantry men running in human waves at said bugs to be slaughtered.
>Carmen uses a knife to disarm the brainbug and stop it from sucking out her brain
Pure pottery.
>>66754929
>generals send a hundred thousand infantry men running in human waves at said bugs to be slaughtered.
I love the Verhoeven movie but could a serious adaptation of the novel work?
>>66755089
A mini-series would work.
And the first line better be "I always get the shakes before a drop."
>>66755147
There was that animated series roughnecks
>>66755089
>>66755147
The roughneck chronicles was pretty decent. More for kids but it tried to have some deeper episodes about soldiering. Like when they have to babysit the robot Chas.
>>66754880
A) I wasn't the stealth mission guy
B) Getting one bomb into Germany was definitely possible, technically and tactically.
Just off the top of my head, I would imagine that you could redeploy the Royal Navy (which dominated the Kriegsmarine for most, arguably all, of the war) to the southern portion of the North Sea. Have them feint with carrier aircraft, while simultaneously attacking with long-range fighters from mainland Britain. Try to time it when Hitler was in Berlin, or a top-5 industrial city, to increase the effectiveness (you're only going to get to surprise them once). Take murderous casualties, but since the Germans aren't expecting an atomic bomb the single bomber should stay unmolested until drop, if the aircraft are dispositioned appropriately.
Carrier group draws Luftwaffe forces away from target, land-based group penetrates deep into Germany, and the next day a fraction of Germany's war production is up in smoke and maybe Hitler is too. The shock would paralyze military orders while the German high command wondered what the fuck Britain just did.If you're asking whether or not I SHOULD... well I'll defer your question to the 30 million dead in Europe and let you answer that yourself.
>>66755379
Forgot to include
>not all of the Royal Navy, just some carrier groups (or the World II equivalent thereof, since carrier doctrine was in its infancy)
>>66755302
I used to watch it as a kid before school, I imagine it looks pretty terrible now
>>66754204
Verhoeven's never read the book
>>66755427
Eh, it's definitely dated, but passable. Some episodes are worse than others. Closer to the books and the power armor and ships were pretty dope. I hate that they left the story on a cliffhanger right at the end.
>>66755089
Yes. The book was written for young men. It's not like there's deep philosophical meaning in it that needs to be looked at or ridiculed objectively. It's just a dumb book for teenage boys about learning responsibility and becoming mature adults.
So with that, make it clear that the bugs are evil and deserve everything humanity throws at them. Still keep the philosophy to a minimum, but don't worry about having to look objectively about the way a silly fictional future society works because who cares? All that needs to be shown is the bugs threaten humanity and need to be exterminated.
>>66755615
If you wanted to do it by the numbers, you'd start every episode with a 5 minutes of action, followed by the intro, followed by 5 minutes in the philosphy class as a framework for the theme of the episode.
>>66753876
forever wars and starship trooper the rest is as shit as you'd expect it to be.
>>66755785
ehn, Ender's Game was pretty alright.
>>66755785
I thought the last and the first men was pretty allright
>>66753876
Heinlein is superbly intelligent. Scifi is honestly the supreme genre nowadays, it far surpasses what pass as "real literature" by a long fucking shot.
Arthur Clarke is pretty damn good too.
>Rendez-vous with Rama
>Childhood's End
Read these two, start with Childhood.
As to Heinlein, SS then whatever you want.
>>66753876
There's a reason it's required reading for officers.
>>66754204
I can't say that earning your citizenship status through service to the government/people is a terrible idea. It doesn't always have to be military in nature, eventually the government is going to be far more encompassing in civilian affairs, especially after the corporate wars.
>>66754306
Because dropping just one would not have stopped the Japs or Germans from continuing fighting/resisting. The bombing campaigns were needed to destroy important infrastructure, as well as deter future conflict. They would have had to drop multiple nukes to cripple the Japs/Germans enough to force them to surrender.
>>66754625
But he still didn't explain why they were throwing knives.
