Aren't Mary Sues supposed to be self-inserts?
Not just characters that have a wide skill set.
For example, the writer Shyamalan portrays in Lady in the Water was a Mary Sue/Gary Stu.
So who is Rey standing in for?
>>64508090
>JJ Abrams
>Jeffrey Jacob Abrams
>Jeffrey Abrams
>Jeffrey
>Rey
>>64508090
>Aren't Mary Sues supposed to be self-inserts?
Most of times but it's not a must.
>>64508090
The definition of terms changes over time, genius
>>64508090
I'm not sure how authors don't do it more blatantly to be honest, if they have a range of characters inevitably one will end up looking like them
>>64508528
This. I've often seen the phrase "self-insert Mary Sue' used, which would be redundant if the former was part of the latter's definition.
>>64508090
>Aren't Mary Sues supposed to be self-inserts?
Yes
http://katfeete.net/writing/suestart.php
>>64508090
They look like those cloning aliens from Star Wars with those necks.
Nobody here uses "Mary Sue" properly. It's used as a vague insult when a viewer doesn't like a character but can't define clearly why.
>>64508090
>Aren't Mary Sues supposed to be self-inserts?
Often, but not always. Generally, I've not seen a single good argument so far for Rey not being a Mary Sue.
Rey is JJ's ideal waifu. She's a typical nerd's wet dream
>>64508090
Almost all protagonists are author self-inserts, that's not shameful or unusual. Mary Sues are bad because they're very blatant wish fulfillment made by fanfiction authors.
If you look at The Force Awakens as a fanfiction, and Rey as the newly introduced character who becomes fast friends with all the established characters and is the best at everything to the point where she overshadows everyone else, then yeah she's a Mary Sue.
>>64508551
It changes because of idiots.
>>64509899
Whose wish is she fulfilling?
>>64509798
I also haven't seen a good argument for why she's not a time-traveling elf.
That tends to happen when people ascribe faulty labels.
>>64510337
JJ's wish of dating a hot kick-ass chick into boys stuff like tech and martial arts who like to hang out with boys and it's totally accesible and down-to-earth
>>64510418
So all waifus are Sues?
>>64510439
In some way, yes. They're more an ideal than an actual character with flaws (I mean real flaws instead of cute antics) and motivations
>>64508090
>implying 4chan has any use for the actual definitions and meanings of things
Just ask anyone who uses this website what a "cuckold" is
Self inserts are not Mary Sues.
Super literal autists can't grasp this.
Arthur Dent is a self insert Douglas Adams, but he's not a Mary Sue, for example.
>>64510726youlol
>>64510337
JJ's wish to be cucked by a badass bitch who's so amazing at everything that she'd never settle for his tiny jew dick and yoda-looking ass.
>>64508090
>Aren't Mary Sues supposed to be self-inserts?
No. This has never been the case. There's often overlap between the two, but self-inserts and Mary Sues aren't the same thing.
A Mary Sue is a fanfiction character who's too perfect for their world. They come into a pre-established world and twist it to be all about them. They don't have to be self-inserts or wish-fulfilment, but desire to self-insert is the main reason they're created in the first place.
In Rey's case it's unlikely that JJ Abrams wanted to be Rey, but he wanted a ridiculously bad-ass protagonist for the audience to insert into.
>>64510811
Self-inserts who are perfect at everything are Mary Sues.
Arthur Dent was perfect at nothing.
>>64508090
What would you call Alice from the Resident Evil movies?
She is hyper competent in all fields, better than every character at everything, and effectively invalidates the use of characters from the game that appear in the movie, rendering their worthless and incapable of acting or saving themselves without her direct intervention.
But she isn't a self-insert of the scriptwriter, so it's fine?
Then what is the specific term for this?
Either a new one is invented, or an old one is slightly changed to fit it.
She's literally a Mary Sue in every way EXCEPT being a self-insert, whoop dee fucking do, the stigma of Mary Sue is about much., much more than being a self-insert.
>>64510417
>Doesn't time travel
>No pointy ears
Guess she's not one
>>64510417
Her ears are normal.
She doesn't know shit about the future and is surprised by shit.
She has questions about her pasts.
Your turn.
>Mary Sue stories—the adventures of the youngest and smartest ever person to graduate from the academy and ever get a commission at such a tender age. Usually characterized by unprecedented skill in everything from art to zoology, including karate and arm-wrestling. This character can also be found burrowing her way into the good graces/heart/mind of one of the Big Three [Kirk, Spock, and McCoy], if not all three at once. She saves the day by her wit and ability, and, if we are lucky, has the good grace to die at the end, being grieved by the entire ship.
I fucking hope Rey dies at the end of 8.
>>64510890
So the "self insert" is totally irrelevant to being a Mary Sue, like we are all saying, you fucking idiot
In Resident Evil: Apocalypse, Alice discovers that she has been genetically altered by exposure to the T-virus. Alice is explained to have adapted to the changes from the T-Virus, merging human characteristics and heightened strength, speed, and agility.
>>64508090
there is more to being a mary sue then just being a self insert
if something is 90% mary sue then who gives a fuck theyre a mary sue
>>64508090
>So who is Rey standing in for?
kathleen kennedy
>there are redditors on /tv/ who LITERALLY think lowly directors are allowed to decide anything
weow
Is she perfect without any flaws?
Does everyone like her?
Does the story bend around her in a way that makes her look better?
>>64511193
Like Anakin?
>friendly reminder that the first Mary Sue type character and the one responsible for coining the name was not a self-insert
>>64511331
yeah people loved Anikin, right?
Nobody ever complained about that little shit blowing up the death donut.
>>64511377
I think people mostly hated his acting.
>>64510975
using star trek as an example
seven of nine is perhaps the grand empress of mary sues
holy shit when she shows up everyone turns into idiots who cant wipe their own asses without her
and shes not a self insert at all, in fact shes only there because the writers wanted to sleep with her
>>64511420
lucas intentionally passed on a decent kid actor to choose him
still dont understand why
The most important aspect of a Mary Sue is not the fact she has wide skill set or is self-insert, but rather that she is liked by everyone for no apparent reasons and that everyone overlooks her negative traits and mistakes.
I have always thought the girl from Golden Compass is a Mary Sue. She is often a complete brat, but nobody ever tells her to fuck off, everybody likes her.
>>64511535
And it's also a rare case where the writer did sleep with his Mary Sue.
And she was willing.
BRAVO BRAGA, THRESHOLD IS A MASTERPIECE, JERI RYANS AN EXCELLENT ACTRESS AND SEVEN A WONDERFUL CHARACTER.
don't worry if your sensors detect large quantities of Madnesium in the area
Anakin hit the autopilot, he didn't know how to fly a spaceship.
On screen, we saw him pressing every button until one set off a missile.
He is still absolutely a SHIT character and badly written but not Mary Sue.
>>64511571
George wanted to control the performance in editing and thought an untrained actor would be easier to control and give more natural responses in performance. George is obviously not a casting director.
