>Praised as a great villain by multiple outlets.
>Whiny, impotent beta who throws temper tantrums.
Self-serving retards say he's a good villain because he supposedly embodies the "old" Star Wars fanbase of whiny white males. I wouldn't be surprised that they wrote him to be that way, too.
being an incompetent vader is interesting
>>64348975
Well the whole message of the movie is "don't look in the past, look in the future"
Maz even spells it fucking out for those too dumb to understand it otherwise
>>64348975
>"old" Star Wars fanbase of whiny white males
>implying prequel Anakin isn't the embodiment of a whiny white male
whinyness comes with the midichlorians dude, it's
CANON
A
N
O
N
He was a poor man's prequel Anakin.
If I was optimistic, I would "not even the final form" as in, he is a faggot now with a potential to learn how faggot he has been and become amazing.
But Disney lol.
>>64349094
The prequels were written that way unintentionally. TFA obviously wasn't.
This is what makes him interesting.
He's an edgy faggot trying to be the badguy and that's his character.
>>64349132
>implying George isn't the ultimate sucker for POTTERY
>>64349120
He got his face slashed by Rey, so I'm assuming he'll be even edgier both in appearance and personality.
>rubs scar
>unsheathes unstable super lightsaber
>heh...
>i WILL deefeet u... REEEEEYYYYYYYYYY
>smashes computer
>>64348920
>Praised as a great villain by multiple outlets.
By who?
>>64349094
Why isn't Rey whiny, then?
>>64348920
>wears a costume to look more like an imposing cripple
>given a high ranking military position despite having no experience
>32 yr old manchild
>>64349194
You mean by whom?
>>64348920
>Episode 8 Climax: Rey faces down Kylo Ren on a desolate, barren planet
>Kylo is on his knees furiously pounding the ground and crying out in frustration and anger; his helmet is split in half and on the ground
>Kylo: RAAAAAAARGH!!! WHY!? AFTER EVERYTHING!! AFTER ALL THAT EFFORT!!! WHY CAN'T I STILL BEAT YOU!!!?
>Kylo: I EVEN..!! I-I even...
>Rey is standing above Kylo looking down at him with her lightsaber in the right hand and Kylo's in her left
>Rey: Give up and return to us, I know you can feel the light side beckoning you, it's what your father would have wanted
>Kylo: F-father...I-
>???: *Stop resisting*
>Kylo: !?
>???: *Consume you*
>Kylo hears a voice from within himself and becomes confused
>Kylo: W-who are you? Where are you talking to me from?
>Rey stares at Kylo in confusion
>???: *Your hatred*
>Kylo: I-I...
>Kylo stands up and just stands there quietly
>Rey: Kylo?
>???: *Let it consume you*
>The wind suddenly shifts
>Rey begins to look around with a worried expression
>Rey: What is this presence?
>Kylo: ...
>???: *LET YOUR HATRED CONSUME YOU*
>Kylo slowly raises his hand
>Rey: !?
>Kylo's lightsaber is ripped from Rey's grip
>Rey: K-Kylo!?
>Kylo slowly turns his head towards Rey, his eyes now completely blackened out
>Rey: W-what's happened to you!?
>Kylo extends his hand and summons lighting forth from his fingertips
>Rey: Aaaaahhhh!
>Rey manages to block with her lightsaber but is thrown back and lands on her back
>Kylo: I've...
>Kylo begins to laugh maniacally
>Kylo: Awakened
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TazywZDuj9I Starts playing at full blast
>[THE FORCE INTENSIFIES]
>>64348920
>how can he possibly be a good villain and a good character if he's not a cookie-cutter powerful megalomaniac with straightforward motivations of world domination or similar?
>>64349141
That makes him similar to Chris Mintz Plasse's character in the Kick Ass films. Which is fine, except Kick Ass was a comedy and this is not.
>>64349195
Midichlorians only manifest in the whine gene in males, read the novel dude.
I like him. He's interesting.
He looks like he's in pain half the time which could indicate his constant struggle.
Also, him pounding on his wounds made me wet for some reason.
>>64348920
>spectacularly missing the point: the post
>>64349232
>Episode 8: The Force Intensifies
>>64349274
hey girl..
>>64349193
My good idea for development would be, as I said, "I acted like a faggot, this won't bring me anywhere." probably thanking Rey for showing that to him.
He has to realize how bad he was so he can have a great development. But Disney won't do it anyway.
>>64349232
EXTREME FORCE POWERS
>>64349232
>Platinum Games will never make a game about Kylo Ren
>>64349232
Fugg, imagine if Kylo murdered Rey. Not saying it in the "XDD fuck the Mary Sue, kill her off" kind of way either. Imagine if Disney had the balls to actually kill one of their new protagonists in a climax scene (Han doesn't count, Harrison wanted out anyway).
Would certainly make things a lot more interesting, establishing that there are no plot armors.
Of course the shills have as a priority selling toys over telling a good story, so whatevs.
>>64349690
They could kill off Finn pretty easily as he's irrelevant to the story and doesn't sell as many toys as the others
>>64349690
Leia is the next to go. Unless she joins the darkside.
>>64349690
It would be out of character and fucking retarded.
>>64349758
Yeah, that's what I'm getting at, for Disney killing characters is more a corporate decision, not a plot driven one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LLMTRr4-Go
>>64349758
>hay guize i browse the politics board on 4chinz xD
>>64349690
Ren isn't going to kill Rey. She's his weakness, she'll probably bring him over to the light.
>>64349837
I feel like Kylo is the one who will tell Rey about her parents. He obviously knows who Rey is because of the temper tantrum after he hears that the droid escaped with a girl. It would also mirror the whole "I'm your father" from Empire with Kylo going "Luke never told you about your parents."
>>64349837
This. People are so convinced she is Luke's daughter.
Just watch. He will fall in love with her and she will pull him back to the light.
What would be really interesting would be her falling to the darks side in the process and he has to to try and get her to return to the light. A la Bastila.
>>64349791
It wouldn't be out of character dum dum, sparing her life wouldn't be either. That's what's interesting about Ren the edgelord, he is literally living in the edge of the light and dark.
>>64349193
Oh fuck...he did get his face slashed.
Snoke has a big gash on his forehead too.
Snoke is Kylo from the future.
There's going to be time travel in star wars too isn't there?
He's basically a cosplaying emo fag.
>>64349837
Unfortunately that is true.
I feel like every movie should be like GoT, in regards of characters mortality.
Imagine if you are scared to the bone, because you dont know if little Mary Sue survives the next fight. That would be great.
>>64349690
I'm actually very glad they decided to turn Rey into a Mary Sue and have her best Kylo Ren so easily and so early. Kylo was already depicted as this Beta-male scrub who's kind of pathetic, and it actually worked well and turn him into an interesting character that you kind of root for, especially against this overpowered entity that is Rey.
Now they have no choice but to have Kylo Ren knock Rey off her high horse and seriously fuck her shit up in the next movie. Sure he can join the light side again, but only after almost killing Rey beforehand.
It's actually ironic, JJ may have reversed the roles of Kylo and Rey, because Kylo seems like the underdog here fighting against the villain.
>>64350004
Um. I meant she's his weakness because she's probably his sister or something but okay...whatever floats your boat Reylo shipper.
I want Force ghost Anakin to show up to tell him to stop being such a fucking faggot.
>>64350287
I don't ship them, but I'm banking on that happening because Disney is all
>muh power of LOVE
>>64349813
>hay guize I'm literally retarded XD
>>64348920
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mCQ5OLyc7g&list=LLk9qpbjpV73O1d4XctKJODw&index=3
>>64348920
>Whiny, impotent beta who throws temper tantrums.
Just like you, Op!
That's the point.
You douche.
How the hell can one miss it so hard.
The actual threat in the movie was Hux.
>>64350004
Luke is going dark side (big Sith guy's masterplan) . Ren&Rey are going to defeat him
>>64348920
he's an antivillain you fucking retard
he's supposed to be whiny and pathetic in order to contrast with vader
if they put in another intimidating vader character you'd just complain it's too close to ANH
kys
>>64350454
he's embarrassed that his genes spawned such an omega edgelord, so Force ghost Anakin is just pretending his grandson doesn't exist so he doesn't respawn as a Force ghost himself and have to deal with him for all eternity.
But mind you, Anakin wouldn't mind giving him a good ol' spankin with his ghost belt like Shmi used to give him when he left the door open and sand covered the kitchen back in Tatooine.
>Vader killed The Emperor
>Kylo will kill Snoke
Pottery.
>>64350018
At the climax of Episode 8 Ren dies. His force ghost suvives, however, and travels back in time, back to a better place, the womb of Shmi Skywalker. This sets up Star Wars Episode 9 - Now the Circle is REALLY Complete.
>>64351221
Snoke will kill Kylo, and Snoke is actually Luke
>>64350927
That's my theory on why some people dislike Ren's character, he's too similar to them so they can't fantasize about being an overpowered evil Sith Lord with no weaknesses.
>Villain is deeply flawed and thoroughly unlikable.
Why is this such an issue for some people? Just in general, I mean. It's something I've seen a fair bit lately, where people bitch because the villain isn't some overly cool badass they can jerk off over.
>>64348920
>Whiny, impotent beta who throws temper tantrums.
That's why he's a good villain. He's an insecure manchild who overreacts and has daddy issues. Yet he's gifted with a lot of power someone like that shouldn't have.
>>64351303
>Kylo Ren
>overpowered
>>64351346
Kylo isn't even thoroughly unlikable though. Maybe to people who expected Vader 2.0, but he's a lot more relatable and actually has clear motivations. The reason why he takes off his mask so early and throws tantrums and shit is so the viewer can see that he's a far more human antagonist.
>>64351427
>reading comprehension
>>64351427
his point was that kylo ren isn't overpowered you retard
learn to read
>>64351427
>>64351303
>>64348920
i loved him in devils rejects
>>64351482
>>64351427
He fucking stops a blaster shot mid air and holds it there effortlessly.
That's something that has never been done by anyone in canon or noncanon. EU or otherwise.
Even Vader could only deflect them.
>>64351213
kek
makes sense for him hating sand because of mommy issues
>>64348920
His arms are pretty jacked in this picture.
>>64351658
It's on the same level of a party trick that loses its cool once you explain how it's done. All it really did was intimidate, wasn't on par with moving massive objects with the force, force choking someone over a great distance, or shooting lightning out of the fingers.
bait thread?
>>64351800
Uh, no?
That's a pretty useful thing to have, dude.
>get shot at
>fucking stop that shit mid-air
You seriously can't see the applications of such a power?
>>64349141
it doesn't even make any fucking sense. why the hell is he trying to be evil with literally no incentive to be? he even says he feels the call of the light. is he just an autistic sociopath?
>>64351658
Vader wasn't a show off. He probably could've done it, but didn't because there's noe purpose to do it.
>>64351959
it obviously requires a lot more concentration and power than just deflecting it
>>64351959
So far he only stopped one shot, there is no indication he can stop more than one simultaneously. If someone is shooting him repeatedly (which is the logical thing to do) there's no way to know if he can go full Neo on that shit.
But it's just my take on it, the point is that I don't see Kylo as being overpowered.
>>64352032
He held it in the air for like two minutes, and spoke to the other guy before killing him before finally letting it 'go'.
>>64352055
>So far he only stopped one shot, there is no indication he can stop more than one simultaneously.
That's the only real point you have. It's still a pretty damn good skill to have.
>>64351973
He is an edgy teenager with daddy issues. Probably homo too.
>>64352100
He held it in the air for two minutes while shaking and straining and holding his arm out in a vulnerable position. It was a scare tactic, especially when he could have just deflected it.
>>64352154
is there some backstory im missing? did he and han have a falling out? im just so lost. on the surface, him being conflicted is really cool, but if you dig any deeper, his character just seems fucking retarded.
>>64352219
Well he turned to darkside.
>>64352219
It's something to do with Snoke calling out to him, trying to turn him to the dark side from an early age.
I'm hoping that Kylo doesn't get "redeemed" that would be such a boring trope, I'm hoping for him to kill Snoke in the next film to take over and become a mixture of the emperor / ESB vader characters.
>>64352219
Yep, there's two movies still in the making of back story you are missing, also there's a lot of subtext in that final talk between Han and Kylo.
>>64352169
I don't think you remember correctly. After the shot was fired he froze it by holding his hand up, then he dropped his hand, walked away from it, crouched down, talked to poe, gave some orders, walked away, and then released it. It was effortless for him.
And I know the force gives them quick glimpses of the future so they essentially have crazy reaction time, but still, the fact he heard the shot, turned around, held up his arm, and then froze it all between the time it was fired and it hitting him is impressive.
>>64352297
>>64352219
Also a deleted scene of a conversation between Snoke and Ren, It was retarded to cut it tbqh.
>>64352329
My point is, so far he has used it exclusively as intimidation, until he is displayed using that ability for something more destructive/deadly still consider it a cool party trick.
>>64352388
In complete honesty, he really should've been able to use the same technique when Chewbacca shot him after killing Han.
How about that for a plot hole? And I never see anyone mention that either.
>>64352445
He was caught by surprise. He didn't know Chewie was there and had his guard down because he had just killed his dad.
>>64351658
We don't know Vader couldn't do it, we just know that he didn't. Maybe Ren only knows how to make them stop.
![ssjgssj_goku_vs_laser_2_by_mertyville-d98auzy[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/Kag1zNE.jpg "ssjgssj_goku_vs_laser_2_by_mertyville-d98auzy[1].png")
>>64352476
>>64352445
It's still cool though, establishes Ren as already powerful (but not overpowered) and inexperienced, with a lot of potential to learn.
>>64351959
What makes it overall better than deflecting? The advantages of just stopping it are situational at best.
>>64352476
Wasn't Han Solo already falling down when Chewie shot him?
Considering how skilled he was, seemed a little cheap if you ask me.
>>64352219
He mentions to Rey that Han is a bad father (disappointing). It's probably Ren's fault, but they clearly had some kind of conflict.
>>64352642
You know, why don't you go and kill your dad and find out how good your concentration is directly after that.
>>64352642
He was gazing in the abyss and probably thinking "holy shit I actually did it" and also they needed something to give handicap so Finn and Rey would have a chance against him.
>>64352445
It just means that he can't do it easily. Poe probably had an actual chance to kill him with that shot.
>>64352822
It wouldn't have killed him. Chewie's shot didn't kill him, and we see his bow kill like ten stormtroopers.
>>64352219
He prolly had bad relations with his dad, as it seems his mom is more attached to him. On top of that, they shipped him off on some shitty world to train with Luke, giving him no time to reconnect with Han at all. He prolly had an edgy high school attitude and hated being taught shit, having to learn about peace and shit. He just wanted to be edgy and have temper tantrums and on top of the family issues he cracked. He is literally a school shooter, the perfect portrayal of the modern white bot
>>64348920
I don't see how he's going to play the role of the villain in future films.
A critical component of a good villain is that they be threatening.
This way they audience feels afraid for the protagonist.
However, it's been established that Rey can kick Kylo's ass without training or backup.
This make Kylo a non-threat and a poor choice of villain.
>>64352967
Duh, it's obviously being set up for Kylo to absolutely rek Rey's shit once they both have more training, remember the way they structure these stories, the second act has to be darker anon.
>>64352967
He had been injured twice already when fighting Rey, and the movie ends with Kylo being delivered to Snoke to "finish his training". I think it's safe to assume he will be more powerful after that.
>>64353026
>>64353067
I'm not so sure Kylo is even supposed to be the threat here.
He's clearly not supposed to be cool or threatening once it's revealed how much of a manchild he is.
Both Snoke and Hux are still alive and have been shown to be way more competent and dangerous people.
If anything Kylo is being set up for a last minute redemption and heroic sacrifice early.
Could be we'll even see more Sith in the next installment.
>>64351406
>hes a good villain cos hes a shit villain
>>64353657
Yes, he's an interesting villain because he's flawed and has the potential to become a terrifying force with the fuel of those same flaws.
>>64353806
>this is what millenials actually believe
>movie makes it clear he can pretty much force freeze things whenever
>he doesnt force freeze rey and finn and kill them
>>64353806
I guess you need every character flawed, if your protagonist is a flawless mary sue
>>64353875
>what is a character arc
enjoy your flat villains that are evil just because
>>64353973
ye, she's a different story, I believe that Disney'll react to the backlash by showing Rey's flaws in later installments
>>64353993
>vader
>flat
I liked him. He seemed young, angry and confused with no sense of belonging so he listened to his "father figure" that corrupted his mind away from everyone else. His fight with Ray showed off two beginners, and Ray happened to be better because she had used a bo staff her whole life while fighting and pillaging, and he hadn't really had much practice or ever needed to use his saber in a fight.
>>64354131
>said nowhere in my post
Kylo is Vader 2 idiot, if you can't see it you should take off those nostalgia glasses m8
>>64354282
Kylo isn't a sith.
>>64353973
>Protag is light side Jedi
>Literally no Jedi left
>Super evil forces overtaking the galaxy, and winning, kill tons of fucking people
>It's bad to have one perfect good person who is trying to fight back and winning
>Against the horrible massacres already committed
So, The First Order is not a mary sue organization, then? Effortlessly doing whatever and killing everyone?
>>64352626
>situational at best
I want d2g to leave
>>64354268
>and Ray happened to be better because she had used a bo staff her whole life while fighting and pillaging
Did we watch the same movie? Rey was getting her ass kicked until she had a force moment. Her staff skills got her nowhere
>>64354353
wow is that your whole character analysis?
Both have Daddy issues.
Both are self-entitled immature pricks that feel like they got the short end of the stick.
Both have inner turmoils between light and dark.
Both choose to remain in the dark because they feel their past actions are irredeemable.
>>64354282
>kylo is vader 2
>>64353973
Honestly I want someone to explain to me how she's flawless. She's a coward. She's good with machines and good with being a Jedi weeaboo, but other than that she's retarded, she's a coward, she never takes responsibility for anything and the other reason she beat Kylo is because she's a Jedi weeaboo so she's practiced her craft just like any Narutard shoved into the show and all their fantasies came true. Also because Kylo Ren is a massive bitch just like his uncle and grandfather.
>>64354625
Shhhh just let the retards parrot everything they've heard online.
>>64354665
Never fucking reply to me unless you're contributing to the thread
>>64354768
youre too retarded to argue against
>>64354665
Yep, already stated my points>>64354632
your turn
he's cute and that's all that matters
>>64354632
wrong on all accounts
vader is none of those traits
that describes prequel anakin, who was a shit villain in the last half of the last prequel movie
>>64354850
great cop out
this is me by the way
>>64354863
still waiting for a counter argument
>>64354910
Keep up the good work
>>64354979
kek, so the prequels aren't canon?
>>64355030
lol wut
>>64355030
to expand, maybe the first two points apply more to prequel Anakin but the two latter points apply to OT Vader, you still haven't explained why you disagree tho
>>64348920
He's a great character. He had depth and emotion and real humanity that the other characters just didn't get in The Force Awakens.
It's a real reversal. In A New Hope, Luke has a lot of depth to him and a real person, while Darth Vader is a one-dimensional character. In The Force Awakens, Rey (this film's Luke) is a one-dimensional character while Kylo (this film's Vader) is a complex character that comes off as a real human. I don't know if it was something they were going for or by accident, but it's both cool and doesn't work. You really kind of need the hero to be the one we can relate to, but Rey just never reaches that level.
>>64355113
barely
vader isnt in any conflict until the final moments of rotj
he also doesnt remain dark but redeems himself in the light
>>64348920
Cut him some slack, dude.
Being an incest-child couldn't have been easy
Why does Jew Jew have such a knack for making mediocrity?
Not excellent, not outright bad, just average.
>>64355170
>Isn't in any conflict until the final moments of rotj
It's clear the dude despised Sheev but still had no choice but to remain his lap dog, in ESB he tries to convince Luke to join him and overthrow the Emperor together. If that isn't inner conflict then I think you watched a different movie m8. So far your refutations are weak.
>>64355338
nope, that isnt conflict
just becuase he wants to overthrow sheev doesnt mean hes not still evil faget
>>64355422
yep but my point is that his motivations aren't black and white until the end of rotj like you stated
>>64355485
no it is
vader tells luke to join him and rule the empire together
that isnt grey, thats fuckign black and white
>>64355422
>>64355485
And in that way he's similar to Ren, which is how this discussion started. So far, we've established that at least in Episodes II, III, V and VI Vader shows inner character turmoil that can be paralleled to Kylo's.
>>64355599
now youre making shit up
vader is not in any internal conflict until the final moments of rotj
>>64355624
Even if you don't see it that way, Vader's conflict and ultimate redemption at the end of rotj didn't materialize out of thin air, even if he didn't show his inner turmoil externally, his overall character arc (yes, his character arc comprises the six movies even if you don't like it) implies that he had to shut out these emotions to act like he did in Episodes IV and V, doesn't mean it wasn't there.
>>64354625
>super saiyan 5
>character development
>>64354927
fags and femanons confirmed for shit taste.
>>64355838
youre confused because plotwise anakin=vader, but the two are very different characters
anakin is a protag up until the second half of rots when he "turns". it agreed anakin is a whiny brat and overall shit character
kylo is a whiny brat and draws far more parallels to prequel anakin than OT vader
that makes him a shit character
>>64355964
Now I feel like this discussion is leaning more towards whether PT and OT Anakin should be analyzed as two separate characters or one. Honestly giving more weight and relevance to the OT or to the entire saga is subjective because of the big lapse between them and knowing that Lucas didn't plan out everything when he wrote the OT, so I guess we can agree to disagree.
>>64356155
are you actually implying anakin and vader have the same characteristics jsut because they are the same person?
do you think brad pitt is the same character as edward norton in fight club as well?
>>64356231
Never said that, it's obvious that his characteristics change throughout the saga, that's the whole point of an arc, but these changes follow a logical progression from point a to b to c.
So implying that after turning to the Dark side he magically cleaned his slate and discarded everything that happened in the PT is just absurd.
>>64356394
To expand on this, I validated your point that PT and OT Anakin can be analyzed as two separate characters, considering the lapse between trilogies and Lucas not being to hot for continuity, so there's that. We can agree to disagree or continue self circlejerking because if that's your point this isn't going to lead anywhere.
>>64356394
im not sure what you mean, are you talking about vader's emotional baggage or something from his prequel days?
are you implying hes vader is still a whiny bitch inside because anakin was a whiny bitch?
>>64356579
*too hot
>>64356579
exactly,
>>64354850
i already said it didnt i
>>64348920
>>Praised as a great villain by multiple outlets.
>>Whiny, impotent beta who throws temper tantrums.
But that's exacty why he's great, anon
>>64356665
kek, we'll disagree on that too then
>>64356594
OT Vader's obviously not a whiny bitch, simply stating that his RotJ redemption didn't come out of the blue and can be traced back to the turmoil he had displayed since the PT. This turmoil perhaps remained shut in most of the OT but it's coherent with his whole arc, which started in the PT.
Even with the PT/OT discrepancies your claim that Vader and Anakin are two different characters and should be analyzed as such just because his motives changed is retarded desu. You are visualizing it as two flat, separate characters when you should analyze it as one. If you can't comprehend that there's not much else I can do for you, whatever floats your boat m8.
>>64357159
>You are visualizing it as two flat, separate characters when you should analyze it as one.
like i said, retarded
Easily the best written Star Wars character of all time. I hope they don't fuck it up.
>>64357263
fuck off sperg - take your circlejerk somewhere else - you didn't fool anyone
>>64357358
Never fucking reply to me unless you're contributing to the thread.
>>64357263
exactly,
>>64353993
I already said it didnt I
and with that the circle is closed, no more replies for you
>>64356736
>But that's exacty why he's great, anon
This is what the world's come to. Cucks praising betas.
>>64354927
He is an uglier version of that Lonely Island guy.
>>64354521
I don't even know what is that
>>64357159
New to the discussion but they're clearly different characters, as OT Vader was written before the prequels.
>>64349193
>Cuts Rey's arm off
>"Nothing personnel, kid"
I find him interesting, an immature and conflicted person wielding far greater power than he has any right to.
It's like a kid holding a nuclear detonation device, can be even more dangerous than someone like Vader.
