/tv/tards will defend this
>Kotor is not cannon
>The Force Awakens
You could literally have glued all Kotor 2 Cut scenes and end up with something 10000x better than what JJ put up and Lucas while at it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VvS5MLnG0Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDVCHKeM1Uk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EtByaOxiwE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=getEECQXH4s
>>64233195
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlmJfAISFAI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNAI7EM_zVg
>>64233436
No shit. Im just posting scenes
Hen is disney gonna make movies about Tales of the Jedi? I want to see Ulic and Exr Kun.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPeI4mX8Nus
Kotor 2 is tryhard trash for edgy pseudo-intellectuals.
Mature men play Battlefront 2 windowed while watching Empire Strikes Back on loop.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CqpGfWrmc4
>>64233664
Still better than TFA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0SI8Z6lpiw
>>64232811
KOTOR had better writing than anything JJ could copy, because he's a hack
>start playing KOTOR2 because people say it's so amazing
>2 hours in I'm still doing fetch quests and moving parts around getting fucking no where
Serious tho, where's the fetch quest part in TFA? I just remember having fun, much unlike kotor. So get your fucking fedora trash back to v
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQqwyd6hwN4
>>64234493
I don't understand what were you expecting.
Don't the characters do variations of the same in the movie ?
Do you have AHDH?
>this thread
>>64232811
That looks like a videogame. No thanks.
>>64234647
>Kotor 3 with Revan and Exile fighting the ancient sith empire
>Never
Fuck off /v/, your dated meme game is shit. Go fuck reddit.
KOTOR II is shiet
>>64234745
>Can't handle the superior SW material
>>64234783
Why is it shit?
>>64232811
>8 minute cutscene in a fucking VIDEO GAME
This is why everyone hates /v/edditors
>>64234745
>I don't know it therefore it sucks
enjoy being a pleb
>>64234732
I would have liked a decent sequel to the kotor 1&2 but we all know that would end up badly.
>>64232811
>>64233032
>>64233101
>>64233195
>>64233375
>>64233436
>>64233478
TELL THAT TO THA KANJAGLOB
Fuck off op, we're allowed to like both or neither.
>>64234830
>Lots of dialogue in a game that belongs to a story centered genre is bad
Spot the tumblredditor
>>64234870
Of course since it would end up being made by modern Bioware
>>64234931
Why?
Who allowed these /v/edditors in here
KOTOR 2 Kucks don't even like the OT
>>64234965
kucktor 1 bank on sw fanbois
the same one who bought kucktor 2
>>64234965
Proofs?
They merely recognize how superior kotor 2 is. Theres nothing wrong with that
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK8ni6Gl3ws
>>64235013
Kucktor 2 redditors have spent the past five or six years on /v/ bitching about moralfags and the OT and shitposting whatever else pseudo-intellectual fedora shit they think makes them enlightened
>>64235236
and that proves they don't like them because? That they don't like a particular part of it doesn't mean they hate it as a whole , right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJBlXyaGdjw
>>64232811
Fuck this grimdark edgy fedorafest. Even the prequels and the fucking TFA feel more like Star Wars than this. Why didn`t Avellone just make a WH4Ok game?
>>64235441
>Fuck this grimdark edgy fedorafest. Even the prequels and the fucking TFA feel more like Star Wars than this. Why didn`t Avellone just make a WH4Ok game?
How is it edgy?
How is it edgy? The whole point of the game is not to be edgy or its opposite
And this is certainly 10x as edgy as anything in any of the games or other movies
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnwkE4trA48
>>64235441
If he made a 40K game there would be some special snowflake Space Marine chapter who fights both loyalist and traitors because they see that both sides are wrong and would try to shut off the Golden Throne and close the Eye of Terror at the same time or some fucking nonsense
>OP samefagging in a vacuum about shit nobody here cares about
>>64235564
Im not samefagging but im replying to most of the posts although most of thems seem not to be made by actual people to bump the thread
Is this board so averse to anything related to video games even if its connected to something as relevant as starwars or is it no one browsing the board
There haven't even been genuine insults
Is this board just one giant ad?
>>64235781
Now that i think about it, the posts in the front page have barely received any replies and yet the ones below never surpass them
>>64235781
i dont know but it isnt where you send your resume, chris "hate manchidren" avellone
>>64232811
As much as I loved KOTOR, KOTOR 2's story sucked balls. It was an incomplete game and it showed.
>>64232811
This seems like a good place to post this.
>>64235977
top kek
>>64235882
meh i have my doubts about him and obisidan in general after Pillars of Eternity.
I just wanted to see the reaction the board would have and test some stuff too
>>64235977
Reminds me of pic related
>>64233664
KotOR 2 could have been better if it weren't on a rushed schedule. They were trying to tell the story of the Mandalorian War through retrospect and hint at the existence of the True Sith beyond the Outer Rim, possibly for a third KotOR that never came.
>>64236124
The restored content mod makes kotor2 so much better.
>>64236101
He left out the first third of the game, where your father abandons you with an unstable psychopath who immediately sends an armed gunman to your room to shoot you to death.
The actor who played Kreia was awesome
>>64232811
I would love the KOTOR games to be canon but KOTOR 2 was pretty much retconned even before the Disney purge for that shit ass MMO.
SW purists hate it because it portrays the Jedi as not perfect and having flaws. Even though the Jedi are hypocritical in the movies.
Kotor
Republic commando
Bounty hunter
Are these the best Star Wars games?
>>64236553
Add Jedi Knight Jedi Academy to that list
>>64236553
I'd say II is better than 1 and BH was fun but flawed, I'd put one of the Rogue Squadron games in over BH
didn't this trash have grey fucking jedi?
>>64236553
what about the arcades?
>>64236549
She's a apparently a shakepearean trained actress. KOTOR2 is also her only VA job. She did the job absolutely flawless.
>>64236658
Kotor?
Kotor 1 and 2 both explored the jedi and how they're incompetent and why people join the sith. It created a very morally grey world. Kotor 2 did a much better job of this. Translating it to a movie wouldn't be that difficult either but disney is probably not to keen on having characters that aren't black and white.
>>64236658
there was a binary morality system in those games and I think it was nice of them to throw a bone to players that wanted to ride the line.
I think its inspired by Jedi that don't always follow the council's rules like it was gospel, like Qui-Gon
>>64236754
>>64236658
Kotor 1 was completely black and white
>>64236986
Not really. Jolee was grey not fond of the Jedi and when Bastila gets turned she actually makes some good points on the Council and their stupidity.
>>64236986
In Kotor 1 there were many grey characters and there are several missions where you learn the jedi are fucking incompetent at solving issues even on their own planet.
>>64232811
Well kotor fucking sucked anyway
Only 2 had a decent story
>>64236986
KOTOR 1 was very critical about how the Council sat there and did nothing while Mandalorians burned worlds
>>64234079
edgy
>>64237171
>>64237141
>>64237050
Doesn't stop being black or white, you do good stuff, you are jedi you do bad you become automatically a sith.
Kotor 2 is kinda also black and white just not in the "jedi" sith" sense, the game questions whats actually good or bad, Kreia berates you whenever you act dogmatic.
>>64236584
This
And it's better than jedi knight 2 no I'm not joking
>>64234805
>>64234862
I don't play pre-historic garbage for meme hipster points.
>>64237357
The decisions you make are black and white but the themes it explores and the story it tells is not black and white. It's really dumb when you're decisions are "save everyone and give them money" or "murder everyone and drink their blood" but the story it does tell is much more grey than that.
>>64237357
I agree that 2 was better story wise than 1, but 1 was still decent enough.
It was technically still black and white, but it was more grey than the rest of the star wars games with the exception of 2.
Problem is the grey in 1 and 2 is lost and now we have idiot games for mouth breathers who can barely turn on the damn computer to play the game.
>>64237428
>The decisions you make are black and white but the themes it explores and the story it tells is not black and white.
The decisions and consequences are black or white therefore what they claim is pointless. If you become a sith you'll get the evil ending
> It's really dumb when you're decisions are "save everyone and give them money" or "murder everyone and drink their blood" but the story it does tell is much more grey than that.
All bioware games have been like that. They got better with DA/ME1 but then EA cannibalzed them. its a shame
>>64237465
>, but it was more grey than the rest of the star wars games with the exception of 2.
i would say it was as grey as the prequels.
daily reminder that a Shakespearean actress voiced Kreia and should've been awarded with a fucking Oscar
>>64237688
I really can't think of another game where a mentor made this much of an impact.
Kreia was the most intelligent person in the Star wars universe,
>>64237838
Go back to /v/ if you want to whine about how moralfags trigger you.
>>64237428
>>64237357
The greyness is explained by Kreia and others in Kotor 2 as well as being hinted-at by the game-theory robot in Kotor 1. On Nar-Shaddah Kreia berates you for helping a poor man by giving him money to buy food or medicine or whatever, since it is the reason he is murdered and robbed not even a minute later. Good deeds can have bad consequences. Similarly she doesn't like you helping everyone because solving other people's problems for them when they should solve their own problems under their own effort undermines their free will and opportunity to grow as people. Basically you're doing the galaxy a disfavour by going around, doing all the quests, and hogging all the precious XPs. An order of super-powered goody-goodies only creates a system of dependency. The other part of the moral greyness is doing evil to reach good ends. It is said repeatedly that if the Jedi had not entered the war that everyone in the Galaxy would be ruled by Mandalorians. If you know the deeper plot then you know the Mando-War was just a plot by the True Sith to weaken the galaxy prior to their invasion. So if Revan and the Jedi didn't go off to fight they never would have been turned to the Dark Side through events like Malachor V, but the galaxy would have been even more fucked if they stayed.
The point was to show the interplay between dark and light, creation/preservation and destruction and change. The Jedi try to be selfless and good but if left without challenge for too long become stagnant and detached. The Sith lead to ambition and change (look at how much the Empire did in its short reign) but tend to go overboard on the destruction to the point that it often subverts their own goals more than it helps.
They both need to exist to balance each other out.
>>64237838
There aren't many games that have good writing and even less that are voiced
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7SQ2Wu6PvI
If you counted kain as a mentor he is not that far off
>>64237928
You are just repeating what I said
>Kotor 2 is kinda also black and white just not in the "jedi" sith" sense, the game questions whats actually good or bad, Kreia berates you whenever you act dogmatic.
She has or think she has an objective sense of good and evil that differs from the Jedi and Sith. She doesn't say the light side and dark side don't exist
>>64232811
TFA is shit, but I'm not sure if it is quite so shit as KotOR 2. At least TFA does not pretend to be saying something deep and smart while spitting out shallow banality and nonsense.
>>64238175
>while spitting out shallow banality and nonsense.
What parts do you consider to be that?
>>64232811
Started playing Kotor2 for the first time recently. Fuck, why is writing so good? Why are characters so good? Why are dialogs so good? Why?
>>64238492
Why are you samefagging your thread still OP?
>>64238492
Chris Avelleone is the writer's name
he also wrote Planescape Torment
>>64238557
>>64237871
>>64238557
>>64238557
>>64238569
Thats not me
Are you samefagging to make it look like im samefagging?
>>64238261
>What parts do you consider to be that?
(1)At least half the time Kreia opens her fucking mouth, probably more. When it is not standard cult leader spiels, far too blatantly intended to knock out all support from under you and leave you open to indoctrination (here's a hint: at least 75% of cults and cult-like groups start their sellspeeches with urging prospective victims to think for themselves), then it is babby's first exercises at social darwinism and nihilism.
(2)A villain so edgy that he literally only lives because of his hatred and rage? An energy vampire "hunger is me" villain? A hero literally, physically powering up through strength of his friendships? Gimme a fucking break. Yeah, Star Wars is a corny and pulpy setting, where such concepts may be appropriate. But when your game is full of pseudo-intellectual pretense, I'd expect something... less banal.
>>64235441
What part of KOTOR 2 is edgy? Be specific.
I thought the whole point of the game was to question the Jedi and the Sith, and moral guided establishments themselves.
>Through victory my chains are broken
>The Force shall set me free.
Not very evil or edgy.
I do like the nod the KOTOR 2 with Kylo Ren's lightsaber being from a design from the Scourge of Malachor V.
>>64238785
Kreia doesn't indoctrinate you. She points out you are acting indoctrinated
They both were existing in the force, as part of it and in the "material world" specifically in the dark side. Their thirst for their desires was the only thing keeping them alive
The phenomenon was caused because of the mass death of millions of being in a single instant and thousands of force users
>A hero literally, physically powering up through strength of his friendships?
The exile doesn't get stronger through friendship , she becomes stronger when she learns, she is the one that makes everyone else stronger or weaker
>>64236677
Fucking based.
>>64238492
this
solo give exposition for 10 seconds and I fell asleep
the jedi council rambling for 10 minutes and my eyes are glued to the screen despite the shitty production value.
there is something seriously wrong about tfa dialog and directing. from finn's constant breathing and chimping out to rey acting like a disney princess despite her background.
>>64238785
The go over the Exile's power.
It isn't the power of friendship. Nihulus 's over isn't that either. He is a Wound of the Force and thus can drain life, all of which is connected to the Force in some way.
Similarly, but not identical, the Exile easily formed bonds to people within the Force, which increased her influence over them. Similar to the bond formed between Revan and Bastila, or Master and Padawan, but she could do it with almost anyone.
>>64232811
>muh deconstruction of star wars
Shit story, unfinished buggy game on release
>>64239606
Good God typing from a phone is awful.
>They go over the Exile's power.
>... Nihilus's power.
>>64232811
that is such a reddit thing to say
>>64239211
>They both were existing in the force, as part of it and in the "material world" specifically in the dark side. Their thirst for their desires was the only thing keeping them alive
Forgot
Nihilus lusted for power which consumed his body , his soul had to be embed to the armor and even then he suffers from eternal hunger
Sion wanted revenge against the Jedi and was granted with an ever decaying immortal body and eternal agony
>>64239645
>Unfinished and buggy
Blame LucasArts. They demanded Obsidian have it released by Christmas 2004 or it would never release, thus giving them about 10 months of development time. The same thing happened to them with Fallout New Vegas, Bethesda demanded it be released by a certain time, giving them less than a year to develop it.
Thankfully Obsidian staff members themselves made the Restoration mod, which is free and a breeze to install even for the computer illiterate. It fixes bugs, adds slews of dialogue, deleted scenes, and even a deleted planet. It also finishes up things and wraps it up better.
>>64239784
no, some fans had to make the Restoration mod
>hey guys look my children's toys have better stories than an actual movie with artistry and craft aren't i edgy?
>>64239836
>edgy
does the steam version include the restored content mod?
if not, where do i get it
i played this once at launch a decade ago and don't want to replay the exact same, unfinished game again
Just what is it about Obsidian that makes anon mad?
>>64239784
I don't care who I should blame, it's a flaw with the game and the story is shit.
>>64239937
it's on steam workshop
>>64239937
the game supports steam workshop and the restored content mod is there and can be installed with one click, all the popular were pretty much all ported into it
>>64239978
>Kreia yells at me no matter how many times I parrot Dogma and quote the movies.
>>64239820
I misspoke, but Obsidian was fully involved with the initial nudge.
They provided all the cut dialogue and scenes on the PC version and made fans aware of it, and begged LucasArts to let them release a patch.
>>64239978
So if your instructor gave you a 50 page essay to write due tomorrow, your failure to complete it is all your fault?
>>64240245
to be fair to that guy,
i've saved all my essays from highschool, through college and could always tweek and reuse an older paper to save time
>>64232811
>words words words words
was this written by buckley?
>>64240351he just pings as neutral grey/white instead blue or red
>>64232811
N O N C A N O N
N
O
N
C
A
NO
N
>>64240245
Did you miss the part where I'm not assigning fault to any human beings? It doesn't change what the game is.
>>64240129
Kreia yells at you no matter what asshole, play the game. KOTOR II is prequel tier with what it does to the force.
>>64240351
>complaining about the amount of dialogue in an RPG
>This is the generation TFA panders too
>>64237393
>mid-2000s
>pre-historic
You're too young to be here
>>64232811
I saw all the Kotor 2 cutscenes pasted together a few years back at MAGfest, I was running the projector
TFA is better
dude moral nihilism applied to a children's space adventure lmao
>>64240280
What course did you take where you had repeated subjects and readings? You didn't have to submit you essay to a plagiarism software (which keeps your papers and other students' on file as well)?
Lucky fuck. My uni was obsessed with plagiarism.
>>64240636
Most of the good stuff is in the game dialogue you participate in, not cutscenes. Many cutscenes are pretty bad.
>>64240636
You saw 10+ hours of footage? Kreia alone has more than 3 hours
>>64240665
>i didnt play the game
What is apathy is death
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r63CsrHZGR8
>>64240588
I did
that only happens with the beggar on Nar Shadaa. and you can negate the influence loss in the same cutscene.
Try to manipulate people and try to be self reliant and she'll praise you.
you'd probably like Bioware games more. They seem more to your way of thinking.
>>64240709
You aren't mature or grown up because you realize real life is shades of grey, it's actually why something with black and white morality in Star wars can be refreshing.
The game shits all over the original movies and that's the most important part of star wars. I don't care about your fedora tipping 'enlightened' thinking. Next thing you know you'll call me a sheep.
>>64240698
my profs were lazy and generally assigned "Write about what ever topic you want within a very vague list of topics"
>>64240588
The 5th season of Clone Wars also explored grey morality very well, and showed how the Jedi Council can be idiotic, lofty, and disconnected from the common person to the point of being akin to the dark side.
I simply one click installed Restoration Mod and it solved both issues you're complaining about.
>>64240876
But it can get old when repeated a dozen times.
There is literally an entire galaxy of stuff. Why not?
In what way does it interfere with what Star Wars is?
>>64240876
why don't you follow the thread?
>>64238006
>Kotor 2 is kinda also black and white just not in the "jedi" sith" sense, the game questions whats actually good or bad, Kreia berates you whenever you act dogmatic.
>She has or think she has an objective sense of good and evil that differs from the Jedi and Sith. She doesn't say the light side and dark side don't exist
Off topic but how the fuck did you guys get KOTOR to work on windows 7?
>>64240876
cliches and tropes just don't entertain me as much as you.
and the Jedi being hypocrites is canon.
Obi Wan lied to Luke about his father and he and Yoda wanted Luke to abandon his friends in 5 and to kill Vader.
the Jedi are still the good guys but they aren't perfect and arrogance can be their downfall.
the council in 2 was flawed because the were ignorant of the situation and how best to deal with it and too arrogant to see that.
blind adherence to dogma is bad was what I took away from that game.
>>64241037I pirated a gog copy[/spoiler
>>64241037
steam
>>64240982
The good guys aren't the good guys if you take KOTOR II's interpretation.
Yoda gets frustrated with Luke when Luke starts to ask why he can't do certain things if he wants to be a Jedi. kotor misses the point about the force.
>>64241113
You should look up what a hypocrite is.
There's a big difference between individual Jedi being fallible and their philosophy being wrong.
But your first line really explained everything I needed to know about your position. You don't like Star Wars, you like gray morality. I don't like KOTOR II specifically because it's the Star Wars name pasted onto gray morality. But it doesn't just stop at preference, you think you're better because you don't like cliches. What entertains me isn't enough for you, which implies that I'm entertained by something lesser. Step down from your high horse, I'm just saying gray ain't Star Wars it doesn't mean I only like black and white morality in fiction you fuck.
>>64240351
>we will never have a va with a voice like buckley's
sucks, he had a very strange and interesting vernacular
>>64241345
>Yoda gets frustrated with Luke when Luke starts to ask why he can't do certain things if he wants to be a Jedi. kotor misses the point about the force.
No it doesn't.
Lets see some simple problem
The jedi refused to act on the Mandalorian war in consequence hundreds of millions died, their doctrine tells them to do good and be neutral yet they didn't act.
Had a lot of them not acted on their own volition the mandalorian would have taken over the galaxy and opressed everyone
The biggest issue is that they didn't even try to investigate the issue, they saw everything from outside, from the force, they never involved themselves personally to be able to make judgement, they've lived secluded in the temple their entire lives
Are they acting as if they were from the light side, worrying about others or the dark side worrying only about themselves?
>>64241230
link please
>>64234905
That actors face makes me fucking angry. You can tell he has no place being in a movie, who's fucking slut kid is this?
>>64232811
STAR WARS FAGS GET THE FUCK OUT U RETARDS
>>64241573
You're saying the jedi code has flaws but you're using the kotor II version the code so your point is null.
Yoda and Obi-Wan trained Luke specifically to murder Darth Vader. The movie jedi are fine with action until you get to the prequels but they fuck up so much shit about the force and jedi it's hard to count them.
I wanna download KOTOR and play it on my Windows 7 gay PC. How do I make this happen?
>>64241818
im saying they are told to do good but good is not defined
>>64241818
This. The prequels set the council up to be a bunch of hippies disconnected from the real world and the EU fags ruined everything by saying that it was that way for 25000 years. Literally everything bad in the old republic was caused by "Jedi Council shows mercy to wrong person"
>>64241345
>You don't like Star Wars
I actually like Star Wars just fine. Empire is one of my favorite movies.
SW purists always get mad over KOTOR 2, at a personal level it seems too.
I tend to dismiss "not muh". which your argument largely hinges on.
and the code is flawed, the no love bit was partly why they got wiped out. and the product of it's violation helped save them.
Good thing Luke followed his own beliefs instead of that code in ROTJ.
>>64241863
Steam? GOG?
>>64241974
And you bring up the example with short term good and long term evil, the jedi going to fight in the mandalorian wars caused a jedi civil war so even in your own example you're wrong.
>>64233664
Objection: You are a massive faggot. I am suggesting that you kill yourself
>>64241818
The Jedi Code in the games comes from books and related media to the Phantom Menace. It isn't different.
>>64242002
That is realistic. It is cyclic. People never learn from history. Muslims are having their Crusades in modern day. "Elected" political representatives live in opulence and are disconnected from their constituents in the USA, much like other historic republics.
In the Force Awakens Maz talks about this cyclic nature of events and people. So it isn't non canon nor discrediting the movies. The movies in fact enforce this.
>>64232811
MUH OBSCURE VIDEOGAMES!!!
The uppity hipster levels have never been higher on /tv/.
>>64242156
It is not realistic, the republic should have fallen long before if every 100 years a new Exar Kun appears and nearly destroys the galaxy. No way the council can survive 25000 years of crushing the republic plane again and again
>>64236584
>>64237367
kill yourselves jedi outcast has better SP than shit acadamy
the only redeeming thing of shit acadamy is the multi player, everything else was god awful
>>64242167
>So obscure. What a dead game that no one knows about and isn't advertised.
>>64242137
You could see it the other way too
not acting to save themselves in the short term caused a faith problem that lead to a civil war, had the mandalorain conquered everything, how long would the jedi order last?
and even then are the jedi lives more important than the lives of hundreds of millions?
had they been sith instead of mandalorians doing the exact same thing, would they have intervened?
>>64236549
>>64236688
I have no idea if she's got a face for movies, but even if they leave Kreia behind, they should totally hire her to be a Jedi in the movies.
>>64242211
Humanity shouldn't survive as many wars as we've had, but we do again and again. People fight for the same basic asinine reasons repeatedly for thousands of years. It is realistic.
>>64233032
I fucking love that theory
it makes so much sense that she had a jedi name, a sith name and finaly a grey name.
She is my favorite Sw charecter
>>64239211
>Kreia doesn't indoctrinate you. She points out you are acting indoctrinated
The wast majority of nutjob conspiracy theorists and cult leaders start with pointing out that you are acting indoctrinated.
And the saddest thing is, the parallel here is unintentional.
>They both were existing in the force, as part of it and in the "material world" specifically in the dark side. Their thirst for their desires was the only thing keeping them alive
>The phenomenon was caused because of the mass death of millions of being in a single instant and thousands of force users
Attaching mumbo-jumbo explanations to heroes and villains that would fit in animes for elementary school kids after a bit of visual redesign at most does not make those characters less banal.
>The exile doesn't get stronger through friendship
She does. That is explicit explanation for how she can use the Force.
>>64242167
>Star Wars
>Obscure
>hipster
>allcaps
Did we start accepting children on this website?
>>64233664
>mature men playing casual dice trash
lmao.
>>64242338
>friendship=/=force bond
>>64242268
There aren't enough fedoras in the world for me to tip in your direction.
I bet you think Revan went to the dark side for the good of the galaxy and that Sheev was a noble hero.
>>64235519
the 3. was okay the other two were shit
>>64242387
Revan thought it was the solution, it doesn't mean it aligns with what I think.
Haven't you seen this trope before? The ends justify the means. You don't have to agree to it, but that is why Revan logicked his way to the dark side.
>>64240412
episode 7 is still shit tho
>>64242303
>shouldn't survive as many wars as we've had
actually because not every wars are directed at everybody and we didnt have the tech for total anihilation then.
>>64241573
>The jedi refused to act on the Mandalorian war in consequence hundreds of millions died, their doctrine tells them to do good and be neutral yet they didn't act.
And they were entirely, 100% correct, given that the actual course of events proved those Jedi who decided otherwise and went to war to be delusional fuckwits, who immediately caused a much worse war.
>Had a lot of them not acted on their own volition the mandalorian would have taken over the galaxy and opressed everyone
As the Republic managed to fight off Revan and Malak, Mandalorians would have been inevitably overwhelmed, and with much lower overall loss of life.
>The biggest issue is that they didn't even try to investigate the issue, they saw everything from outside, from the force, they never involved themselves personally to be able to make judgement, they've lived secluded in the temple their entire lives
Which you've jusr made up.
>>64242167
MUH STAR WARS 7 BEST STAR WARS SINCE PREQUELS!
hipster faggots don't want to admit that their new episode is a ripoff of Episode 4
>>64242338
>Kreia asks you questions and you pick responses out of a list, you actually have the ability to argue with her in the sense of taking a position, her disagreeing, but you not being painted as "wrong"
>In the end she realizes that her approach was incorrect, but only if you convince her at the final battle.
>She tells you several times to question everybody, including her
>WOW CONSPIRACY THEORISTS AND CULT LEADERS ALSO DO THIS SHE MUST TOTALLY BE ONE
You are a retard and should probably stop posting, and if you can't back up your shit with anything other than the word banal repeated over and over like you just picked up a thesaurus, go shitpost somewhere else. I've heard legitimate objections to Kreia and KotoR 2, and you made none of them.
>>64242529
the Jedi council was involved in the war against Malak and Revan though
>>64242482
Then why are we repeating Cold War Era tensions? Why is Russian money and culture eerily similar to pre Bolshivik revolution?
We know we can destroy the Earth 10x over with nuclear weapons, but we still create conflict with the same nations over the same stuff.
Different countries always cast in the same roles, same tensions over ideals.
We don't really ever learn, and it is actually realistic for a fiction to show that in its universe.
>>64237928
>Kylo Ren is struggeling between the light and the dark side
>next movie he ends up being grey
>He is told to go seek the holograms of the most powerfull grey Jedi in ordre to learn from her.
Disney made a major patch to kotor2 games last november
>kotor is soon relevant
>kotor2 is soon canon
>>64242338
>The wast majority of nutjob conspiracy theorists and cult leaders start with pointing out that you are acting indoctrinated.
She never says what you must believe, she only tells you to think by yourself
>And the saddest thing is, the parallel here is unintentional.
Proof?
>Attaching mumbo-jumbo explanations to heroes and villains that would fit in animes for elementary school kids after
>Dark side is composed of negative emotions, lust, anger, suffering,etc
>The death of a couple of hundred of millions through war has disturbed the force
> a single event where a weapon wiped millions including thousands of force users in a single instant caused a wound in the force
>The 2 villains died but came back to life as embodiment of the force, one wanted power, got his body consumed and was cursed with eternal hunger
>The other wanted revenge against the jedi order for not doing anything, got an immortal body but eternal agony
>They are both the embodiment of these parts of the force
>She does. r how she can use the Force.
No, thats the explanation to why she got reconnected with the force , she doesn't get stronger by being around anyone, she gets stronger the more sure she is about herself, kreia teaches her to think and not fall for dogmas like her previous apprentices (the 2 sith villains) did.
The others are drawn to her not the other way around.
and dont lie again because you can see the dialogue in OPs video
>>64242387
but he did, everyone even the jedis said he did but they condemn it. He kept being in the dark side so he became a full blown out villain.
kotor 1 and 2 could have translated to 4-6 movies on their own
what a blunder not to make it happen
>>64242529
>And they were entirely, 100% correct, given that the actual course of events proved those Jedi who decided otherwise
Why did you left out the part where i wrote that the mandalorians might have wiped out all the jedis just like the republic did in EP 3?
>As the Republic managed to fight off Revan and Malak, Mandalorians would have been
No they didnt, part of the jedi order fought, Revan literally won that war and killed their leader and the jedi order DID fight Revan in fact you fight them through the whole last parts if you take the sith route
>Which you've jusr made up.
Why dont you fucking watch this video where Kreia says it
>>64233101
>>64242467
Yes thank you I know what gray morality is.
I'm just baffled people keep bringing up kotor II situations to show why the jedi are dumb. As soon as you say 'well it's just these jedi' then that doesn't say anything about the force or the jedi way, just that obsidian wrote them as assholes so they could have their 'deep' and edgy story.
kotor 2, with how it handled the force and made a point about reforging the jedi order, was closer in its essence to the original trilogy than any star wars media thereafter
fite me
>>64241230
How? Where? Tell me!
>>64242767
>Perhaps Revan never fell. The difference between a fall and a sacrifice is sometimes difficult, but I feel that Revan understood that difference, more than anyone knew. The galaxy would have fallen if Revan had not gone to war.
>>64242859
It is done in so many Star Wars media's, not just KOTOR 2..
Ahsoka was one of the only other jedi to be exiled from the order. They exiled her because the Jedi were so arrogant that a Padawan could trick them with a simple framing that could be seen through with any surface investigation.
Luke also struggled with what the exact definitions of being a jedi were.
If he had followed the Jedi and not interfered on Bespin, he probably would not have discovered Vader was his father. This acknowledgement of their connection likely reinforced Vader's motivation to defeat Sidious in ROTJ.
He also struggled in many of the good EU books (written by Zahn) to understand how the Jedi Order functioned, and if it even could anymore.
>>64232811
This trailer for the KOTOR MMO expansion is better than TFA.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkgzXpKbVGE
>>64243116
correction: the whole story and characters are better then FTA
>>64242581
>Kreia asks you questions and you pick responses out of a list, you actually have the ability to argue with her in the sense of taking a position, her disagreeing, but you not being painted as "wrong"
Sure. You can tell the manipulator to go fuck herself, even though the game still forces you to go along with her in major plot points. Does not change the manipulator's agenda.
And speaking of picking responses, there are multiple cases where Kreia will bitch for you regardless of your answer, which is also staple tactic of cult leaders and relationship abusers who want to cultivate emotional dependence in people they got on the hook.
>In the end she realizes that her approach was incorrect, but only if you convince her at the final battle.
Do you think having an pre-mortem epiphany after having your teeth kicked in by a hero undoes the fact that a villain was a villain before?
>She tells you several times to question everybody, including her
Again, appealling to reason and putting it against following authorities is the oldest manipulation tactics in the book. It is successful so often because it fellates the target intellectually, telling him that he can figure out the truth and tell right from wrong on the power of his own common sense. Which is, of course, complete bullshit, because no man can replicate achievements of thousands years of philosophy on his own. Questioning everything and therefore trusting only something so limited as your own mind only leaves you vulnerable to people who say what you want to hear.
And, by the way, fuck ton of manipulative villains in fiction tell their future victims that they cannot be trusted right off the bat.
>>64242347
>Battlefront 2
>Dice
Are we in 2017 now?
>>64243096
You bringing up prequel shit does not help your case that gray morality isn't a part of the OT, you know the important star wars.
You're trying so hard to make it seem like it's in there, but it's not. You have no idea if Luke would find out about Vader, you can't chock that up to not listening to Yoda as if it for certain wouldn't happen otherwise.
>eu books
WHAT MATTERS IS THE MOVIES
fuck anon
>>64243116
>>64243182
nah, bioware would have put in gays and more minorities.
>>64242813
>Why did you left out the part where i wrote that the mandalorians might have wiped out all the jedis just like the republic did in EP 3?
How, given that a faction of the Jedi was enough to crush them?
>No they didnt, part of the jedi order fought, Revan literally won that war and killed their leader
And immediately became a bigger threat to the Republic.
>Why dont you fucking watch this video where Kreia says it
And why should I trust something a Sith Lord of Betrayal says? She probably literally can't tell the truth if she wanted to, just like Nihilus can't stop eating planets.
>>64243232
no b8 m8
At least it isn't a rehash of previous films (at least not that blatant)
>>64243260
characters and story would be still better tho. but yes maybe we still would get the muh diversity
>>64243328
>How, given that a faction of the Jedi was enough to crush them?
The whole republic PLUS the jedis fought
>And immediately became a bigger threat to the Republic.
And why did this happen? Its his fault or the fault of the jedi council?
>
>And why should I trust something a Sith Lord of Betrayal says? She probably literally can't tell the truth if she wanted to, just like Nihilus can't stop eating planets.
>Moving the goalpost
Besides you are fucking retarded, she points it out and the council says it was the correct thing to do
So,I've never played any kotor games. Any links I should know about?
>>64243396
>characters and story would be still better tho
I figure it would be about the same except Poe and Finn would be lovers instead of bros.
And Kylo Ren would have been chinese
>>64243229
You are retarded. The game forces you to travel with her, not agree with her, the plot points you are "forced" to agree with are facts: Both the Jedi and Sith are capable of causing horrible problems, the methods differ, but the results are the same. The only way around this is to apply classical morality and independent thought to your own actions, rather than blindly following the teachings of any order.
The fact that you consider some niche of cult leaders using manipulation tactics is evidence of EVERYBODY who tells you to be skeptical manipulating you reveals you to either be massively stupid or have some sort of agenda against Kreia/KotoR 2.
Cult Leaders probably eat fucking pizza too that doesn't mean when I ask you to share a slice I'm trying to convince you to join my fucking cult.
Holy shit man. Only on 4chan could I find a poster who listens to someone say something and then takes the exact opposite meaning to heart, because "That's what they WANT me to think!"
I guess I'll reinstall I haven't played with the content mod
should I play the first one? I don't think I really have that much patience for this style of gameplay anymore
>>64242767
>She never says what you must believe, she only tells you to think by yourself
Again, telling people to think for themselves is a classic manipulation trick. Like, every first sensationalist pseudohistorian and "awaken, sheeple" conspiracy theorist uses it.
Actual philosophers would laugh at the idea that you can come to any worthwhile moral conclusions by "thinking for yourself", without carefully examining what your precedessors have to say on the matter.
>Proof?
Avellone's interviews.
>No, thats the explanation to why she got reconnected with the force ,
>she doesn't get stronger by being around anyone,
So, which of those mutually exclusive statements is true?
>>64243565
Poe and Finn are lovers.
Pinn is canon.
>>64243520
best to go in blind for the first one
2 is best with restored content mod, its in steam workshop
In all seriousness, why doesn't Disney just make a KOTOR movie?
They could easily milk each for 2 or 3 movies each, that's 6 right there. They don't have to come up with anything, it's all already written down.
>>64243565
Bioware Star Wars games have far more interesting characters like HK 47
>>64243256
original trilogy had plenty of gray, it's prequels that simplified things tremendously and opened the floodgates for extremely simplistic interpretations of morality and the force, which came to be reinforced through later media
kotor 2, with its vagueness, wasn't really a deconstruction of the morals of star wars and force as it was coined, but the deconstruction of people's predominant dumbed down interpretation of it as it came to be after the prequels
which is why kotor 2 is the best stars media after the ot, really, it captures it better than everything else senpai
>>64243612
Bioware would make it more overt and obvious though.
the storyboards would look like yaoi fanart
>>64243256
You only read the beginning and end of my post. I referenced Bespin. The Clone Wars is universally accepted by critics and fans alike to be miles better (and even more mature believe it or not) than the prequel trilogy.
If Luke hadn't pleaded with his father to help him, would Vader had gotten that instinctual prod to stop his son's pain? If Luke was just screaming, he wouldn't stand out more than any other victim, except Vader's private insight.
There also is not much expansion on the Council and the Code in the OT because obviously they don't exist, and the Empire either confiscated or destroyed records. So much that the entire galaxy was convinced within 2 decades that jedi were a myth.
Obi-Wan lied, and admitted wrongdoing. Yoda ran away, like Aang in Avatar. Jedi are not perfect people, and aren't 100% moral. Therefore, the Order cannot be pure and perfect, 100% light.
Not to mention jedi and a lot of the mythos in general are based on Eastern religions and traditions, many of which advocate balance over absolutes.
This is an interesting and relevant read:
http://www.tor.com/2012/09/12/the-qtrue-nature-of-the-force-is-way-more-complicated-than-you-think/
>>64243587
>Actual philosophers would laugh at the idea that you can come to any worthwhile moral conclusions by "thinking for yourself",
Literally the first thing philosophers came up with is I only know i dont know and that you shouldnt assume you know
>Avellone's interviews.
Links?
>So, which of those mutually exclusive statements is true?
She doesn't become stronger, she only regains the capability of using the force but then again its not friendship its just being close to people for a long period of time.
The jedi council on the third post tell her that she must cut her link to the force or else she would affect them against their will
>>64243664
Question: Is this a bad troll or are you stupid?
>>64243790
mad biodrone detected
>>64243664
This a bad thing?
>>64243839
Fact: it will still be still better than the shit we got in the prequels
>>64243573
>You are retarded. The game forces you to travel with her, not agree with her,
The game forces you to go along with her plans, even though you can tell that she's just a Sith manipulating you within one hour of play tops.
>the plot points you are "forced" to agree with are facts:
They aren't.
>Both the Jedi and Sith are capable of causing horrible problems,
Every Jedi who caused horrible problems even in KotOR 2 did so by falling to the Dark Side.
>he methods differ, but the results are the same.
Bullshit.
>The only way around this is to apply classical morality and independent thought to your own actions, rather than blindly following the teachings of any order.
The fact is, you can blindly follow Jedi or Sith teachings throughout the game (in fact you probably WILL, given that gameplay incentivises goint all the way Light/Dark in every situation) telling Kreia to fuck off every time the dialogue allows that, then stab her in the face and walk out none the worse for wear.
That's the fact, anon.
Another fact is that Kreia won't know classical morality if it bit her in the ass. She is a shallow and banal social darvinist who cannot comprehend basic facts like any advanced society needing specialization to proser, so a dock worker work docks and a Jedi takes down criminal gangs who might rob him.
Yet another fact is, Kreia is attempting to use basic cult recruitment/indoctrination tactics on you. That you take you knowledge of human interaction from bad games and cannot recognize the dangling hooks does not change that fact.
>>64243657
>original trilogy had plenty of gray
not between the light and dark sides, but I love how we've gotten to the "no YOU'RE the prequel babby" point of our argument.
Yoda: You will know... when you are calm, at peace, passive. A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, NEVER for attack.
Luke: But tell my why I can't...
Yoda: No, no! There is no "why".
>but the deconstruction of people's predominant dumbed down interpretation of it as it came to be after the prequels
How fucked in the head are you? KOTOR II is stealing the entire jedi don't want to go to war and are impotent thing from Attack of the Clones which had come out two years prior.
At what point is anything in the OT gray between the light and dark sides of the force?
Do I need to play the first Kotor before I play the second one?
>>64243912
>biodrones actually believe this
>>64244084
not really
>>64243717
>The Clone Wars is universally accepted by critics and fans alike to be miles better (and even more mature believe it or not) than the prequel trilogy.
I don't give a fuck, it's prequel shit as in still had the prequel's notions of the force.
You're still confusing individual fallibility with the light vs dark dichotomy. Obi-Wan lying doesn't mean the jedi are evil and the light side is just as corrupting, it means Obi-Wan was a dick.
>tor.com
No
>>64244084
yes
>>64244084
no but you might appreciate it more if you do.
there a couple of cameos of companions from 1
>>64243717
the motherfucker lives in headcannon land. you are wasting your time.
>>64244223
>ot
>head canon
BUT MUH EU AND CARTOONS
>>64244397
in spite of its overwhelming mediocrity, TCW is canon, it survived the disney purge
>>64244170
You are just saying "no no" without providing reasons. Also, if you actually red the article, you'd see where the author provides links that site the source of their information. It is like refusing an article on wiki, when that article references slews of scientific journals and directly links to them.
Why is lying good or evil? See? BAM! Grey morality right there.
Also, midiclorians aren't really referenced at all in Clone Wars, but you wouldn't know because you aren't bothered to watch it.
>>64244072
The prequel took a lot from other media. Lucas did not come up with the name Coruscant, Timothy Zahn did in Heir to the Empire.
>>64244445
thanks I'm aware, it's still as superfluous to good star wars as the holiday special is
>>64244397
>Muh Hugo award winning author is trash compared to the brilliance of Disney and Lucas!
>Anything animated is immature or comedy
You're really going to claim the latter on a site like 4chan? And argue about canon legitimacy and when people bring up canon material discount it? Come on.
>>64244465
I don't know how hard it is for you to understand thing, but I don't give a fuck about star wars that isn't the OT. It's all shit. I really like the Jedi Knight games, but they make a joke out of the movie lore. I really liked that episode of that clone wars show Rookies, but the show in general is prequel shit so I don't care.
I've made it clear several times gray morality isn't the same as the light side and dark side being equally fucked up. Han is a smuggler but a good guy, gray morality! You keep explaining what that is like I don't understand it. You're refuse to accept the philosophy of the light and dark sides in the OT is anything but gray.
Midi-chlorians are in the last season, the lost episodes. And you do know that, you're just trying to make it seem like I don't know what I'm talking about.
>>64244649
Will then fuck off you OT loving hipster faggot
>>64244484
How would you know if you've never seen it? Parents actually expressed dismay over how Un kid friendly it was compared to even the movies after the first 2 seasons.
There was an article, but have actual parents discussing it on a forum until I can
http://boards.theforce.net/threads/age-appropriateness-of-the-clone-wars.50018886/
>>64244558
strawman much?
>And argue about canon legitimacy and when people bring up canon material discount it? Come on.
There's what matters to the story moving forward and then there's what a corporation labels as "canon" to make money. You really think the prequels or clone wars cartoon matter to Kasdan?
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
>>64244696
>hipster
Suck a bag of dicks faggot, not everyone likes your shitty cartoons or books. What part of having the most normal and widely accepted opinion on star wars is being a hipster? If anything you should be calling me a sheep or something.
>>64244717
I've seen episodes anon, more than enough to understand what it is. What the fuck does parents complaining about it's unchild-like tone have to do with it being prequel shit or not?
>>64244649
>Light isn't light, dark isn't dark
Grey morality, you don't know what is right and what is wrong. This is grey morality. I don't know why you're making up your own definition.
Nothing anyone says will change your mind, even when numerous people point out grey morals in the OT you just blabber "that doesn't count! I have an uber special definition head canon for what constitutes as black and white vs grey morality"
So just keep watching the OT on repeat while I actually have fun and expose myself to new material in a franchise I enjoy.
>>64244817
>willing to argue the philosophy of the jedi for hours
>its totally normal!
kek
Jedi and Sith are both full of shit.
>"Why do you hate the Jedi/Sith?
>"Because i was told to"
>>64232811
>KotOR is not canon
Rakata Prime is one of the few EU planets to be included on the map in the "Visual Dictionary", though.
>>64232811
this is bullshit. first Kotor is fine, at least the characters and the world. but the 2nd one would be such a boring ass movie
>>64244727
When he borrows EU stuff like Ren's appearance, his lightsaber coming from a planet only referenced in KOTOR 2, the parallels between Star Forge and Starkiller Base, and Lucas uses the name first shown in an EU book as the central planet for the Star Wars galaxy, then yes, even money hacks would reference EU.
All of the creative minds have borrowed from each other over the years in Star Wars, self referencing each other as a nod if inspiration or fan service.
>>64244959
Disney is largely picking and choosing what is canon from the old EU.
Inquisitors are now canon again thanks to the Rebels cartoon for example.
>>64245001
2nd is made more akin to a tv series/novel with more sides, conflict and charaters than 1st.
the conversation in kotor 2 flow better than in any movies or any biowEA game for that matter even when the subject of the conversation is the boring: light side this, dark side that.
>>64244944
The same way warring countries and militaries hate each other?
>>64244862
You're confusing gray morality existing in the Star Wars universe with applying gray morality to the force. That's the fundamental difference between OT and KOTOR II. Nothing anyone has posted confronts that.
I fucking love it when prequel fans get mad about Kotor 2 because
>it misses the point of muh Star Wars!
Star Wars has always been a cheap fantasy fairy tale set in space without much thought put into it. Kotor 2 showed what was possible within the setting if you introduced a more complex perspective than shining white knights beating evil black knights and saving the day and getting the princess, but ofc you manchildren can't handle that.
is there a right way to play kotor 2
why is dark side in kotor 1 so edgy and light side so gay
>>64245827
>getting the princess
AYYYYYYYYYYYYY
>>64245547
The Force isn't moral or immoral, even the OT says it.
You use the Force, let it use you, or a combo of both.
The Force doesn't really have a good or evil will. Or a balance. It exists.
I never noticed any media says the Force has a will, even BS midiclorians.
>>64245966
what do you expect from murican fantasy?
GOAT game vs a jew shill, wonder why?
The only failings of kotor 2 is that it was unfinished and has long parts of nothing but combat (though often the characters, locations and enemies switch frequently in this time)
>>64246035
I'm not implying the force has a will.
Whatever anon, we like different shit this is pointless.
You can go murder people in anger for the good of the galaxy, I'll be lifting rocks n shit.
So I don't play much video games at all besides the occasional DF fortress, but is KOTAR 2 worth a play or what?
>>64246487
yes. its like $3 bucks on steam last I checked.
be sure to get the restored content mod from the steam workshop.
>>64245966
that depends on what you feel right is
>why is dark side in kotor 1 so edgy and light side so gay
Bioware just isn't that good at writing
>>64246487
Kotor and Kotor 2 are basically free in Steam atm. Download TSLRCM for Kotor 2.
>>64242685
>Kotor games made canon
I would literally cum buckets.
>>64246659
>Kotor games made canon
>disney puts kotor 3 into works
>developer is cd projekt
KOTOR II is prob my favorite CRPG. Up there with Fallout 2 and Planescape Torment. I like the nihilistic outlook and the deconstruction of tropes that Avellone likes to do. And while I don't think KOTOR 2 is in anyway edgy, why exactly is edgy bad? It's not popular and typically excessive but it can give some interesting results in done tastefully I think.
>>64245827
>plays video games
>"manchildren"
>>64246659
>>64247010
>canonizing that technology hasn't changed in 4000 years
>>64247115
edgy, in the case of kotor 2, is not applicable, and is only used as an argument by people lacking an actual argument to be made
to me, it seems they are just intimidated by the depth it has and or ridicule and dismiss it in an attempt to appear a step above it, discounting completely it's the most inspired contribution to sw lore, from plot to the now iconic characters it introduced and the characters from before that they elevated, like Revan
>>64247421
This is parody right? This is some kind of false flag against KOTOR 2 fans or something you're trying to perpetrate right?
>>64247115
edgy is a nebleous buzzword at this point
I like Planetscape Torment. :3
>>64247612
You mean PlanetEscape: Tournament?
>>64247535
Good counter points m8
>>64235341
It does though. KOTOR 2 fags honestly think the OT and PT are equally bad, sometimes the OT is worse even because the story was more classical. Can you prove me wrong without having a mental breakdown with the effort it would take for you to lie?
>>64247341
But it did. In Kotor they used capital ships to bombard the planets. In the movies they build Death Star(s) to destroy the planets in one shot. That's basically from space shuttles to Dyson spheres tier advancement.
>>64248029
>KOTOR 2 fags honestly think the OT and PT are equally bad sometimes the OT is worse even because the story was more classical.
What? Who even said this?
>>64248029
I won't pressume to speak on every Kotor2 fans behalf, but the reason I like Kotor2 so much and prefer it to Kotor1 is because it is so different. The setting, the mystery, the characters, everything fits so well in the game. It's a shame we got an unfinished game, and LucasArts chose to give Bioware the OK to do TOR, when Avellone previously enquired to make Kotor3.
