>There are faggots who think RotJ isn't the best of the original trilogy
>>64176530
It's second best. It's better than Star Wars
Endor and Death Star 2.0 really put a dent in it. Otherwise it was great.
>>64176530
>old flicks are good
get with the times gramps
>>64176570
The inherent problem with Empire Strikes Back is that it only works if you follow it up by watching Return of the Jedi. Unlike A New Hope, it simply can't work on its own.
>>64176530
It's not the best, but this whole meme of it being bad and somehow worse than 3 needs to end. Yeah it had some ewoks, and some of the special edition/bluray changes are atrocious, but its high points were some of the best in the series. If it wasn't so clunky in some areas, and important characters were given things to do, it could easily be on par with Empire.
>tfw we will never get the first draft version of Jedi
Final scene with the emperor makes up for anything else. Bandwagon empire faggots fight me
>There are faggots who think TFA is better then RotJ
wew newlads
ROTJ IS the best of the trilogy though
darker then empire too
>flat cinematography
>too much blue screen
>muppets all over
>only two locations
>another goddamned death star
i'm cool with ewoks tho
>>64176636
>the inherent problem of being in the middle of a trilogy is that it doesn't tie everything up
WOW, YOU THINK?
>>64176602
Endor is the best planet in the series
Why doesn't ANH get any appreciation? I thought it was the best of the trilogy.
>>64176721
What I'm saying is that's why I can't consider it the best movie of the trilogy.
>>64176530
It never should have been a trilogy. After Empire, it should have been a movie exploring the criminal underworld, and about getting Han back. The finale should have been the whole sail barge scene. Then, make a fourth movie about confronting Vader again and destroying the Death Star
>>64176530
Considering that there are faggots who think TFA is on par with any of the OT I'm sure you can find a faggot for any opinion
>>64176530
>tfw all of my noteworthy weird fetishes can be traced back to watching the Jabba's Palace sequence of RotJ as a kid
Thanks for the slavery fetish among others, Lucas.
4>5>6>1>2>3>7
They just got worse over time.
>>64176530
ewoks
>>64176530
Can we stop pretending that Carrie Fischer ever was anything more than a 6.9/10?
>>64176530
RotJ has some amazing parts in it. Jabba's Palace is delicious (even if it's out of pace with the rest of the film), the space battles are excellent and probably the best of the series, and of course the duel at the end is GOAT. It's a really satisfying movie within the context of the series as a whole. The song at the end always gets me, bad.
The problem is that everything else in the movie ranges from mediocre to shitty. In its gestalt, there are just way too many crappy qualities sprinkled across the movie to make it extremely good, even if it has some of my favorite moments from the trilogy and the franchise as a whole.
It ends up lurking alongside ANH and TFA in that murky middle ground of films that are waaaaay better than the prequels but can't measure up to ESB in the slightest.
>>64176745
You literally never see it. Only its moon.
>>64177026
this
but at least she wasn't a 3/10 like Rey
>>64176943
>filename
Kekerinho!
>>64176768
fuckin' A
there should have been a movie that combined the events from shadows of the empire and the first act of return of the jedi, it would have made for a good, coherent movie. hell, they could have even called it shadows of the empire.
that would have left a lot more time to explore things that needed to be explored in the final installment of the series, such as luke's return to dagobah or the fleet action above endor.
>>64176530
I really like Jedi. The final confrontation is just so damn good, and Endor/the Ewoks really aren't so bad if you aren't the kind of idiot who treats Star Wars like some kind of serious dramatic work (because, you know, it's not).
I think the Endor/Ewoks scene didn't work is because it felt really downplayed and childish. I think it would of worked if it was as originally the Wookies. And even if primitive, it could still work the same way the original rough draft of star wars handled it. In that, it was establish that the primitive creature have always been attacking the shield base but unsuccessfully to point it more of an annoyance to empire rather than legit threat.
Until when main heroes met them, one being an actual general. They were ones who friends the wookies, and taught them and guide them into how attack the empire, as well as taught them how handle technology. it was much more interesting and plausible.
>>64176651
What's the first draft of ROTJ??
I can't stand the Ewoks but the rest of jedi is GOAT
>>64177993
Instead of Endor and Ewoks, it was Kashyyyk and Wookies. Han died sacrificing himself to save the others. Instead of another Death Star, it was an assault on the Empire homeworldprobably Coruscant. In the end, Luke wandered into the sunset alone, and Leia was put back into a position of royalty after years of fighting, and struggling to return to that kind of life.
I'm sure theres more, and it might not have actually been the first draft, but still
>>64177993
I dunno all of it but I know some of the ideas were that originally Coruscant (though under different name) was in it and that's where Vader and luke went to, to meet the emperor. Also Emperor apparently lives and Leia was not Luke's sister. this was to prepared for what George originally planned for sequel trilogy where Luke goes to look for his sister and the fight against Emperor happen in that trilogy. Also if you read Dark Empire, many of the elements from that were borrowed for the planned sequel trilogy.
Ewoks were basically a cross between Wookies and Jawas.
>>64176602
All in all I didn't think endor was that bad, the death star 2.0 is annoying though.
Still, the scene in the throne room is the best in the entire series
>>64178148
They were just teddy bears. the entire reason they were put in the movie was so that they could sell star wars themed teddy bears
>>64176530
it was my favorite growing up.
it had the best big space battle at the end
the going into the deathstar and hitting the core and flying out is still fucking awesome to this day
the endor scenes even with the ewoks was great for a star wars movie and the speeder scenes were tits. also "rebel scum"
jabbas palace was also great, because of jabba and the princess. it also did a good job of introducing a lot of the aliens and shit that made us like the first movie.
the lightstaber and emperor scenes were probably the most well done scenes in the trilogy desu
>>64177654
This.
The original theatrical cut of Jedi is phenomenal. I 'm biased in favor of it, because it was the first one I saw in the theater (was born after SW, and too young for Empire, so my first exposure to them was on TV), but it's always been my favorite.
People treat the ewoks like they were fucking Jar Jar round 1, but they were nothing of the sort. Part of that was that they were still actual people in suits, rather than CGI. Another was the conscious directorial choice to not only give them an unintelligible language, but to not subtitle them (keep in mind they had employed subtitles extensively earlier in the film for Jabba, etc.). The audience is just as much in the dark as to their intentions as the protagonists are, and depend every bit as much on C3PO for translation as they do. Watch Wicket's first scene with Princess Leia and tell me Warwick Davis didn't absolutely NAIL that scene in a way that couldn't have been done with a CGI character speaking in a goofy accent.
Are the ewoks kid-appeal and merch fodder? Sure. But the whole series was that. Fucking R2D2 is that. Star Wars isn't fucking 2001 or Gattaca.
>>64178422
The second Death Star made for good bookends, IMO. Besides, OF COURSE the Emperor was going to build another one. He wasn't going to give up on it just because the first one got destroyed. He would chalk it up to Tarkin getting sloppy and careless. It made total sense that hubris would be Palpatine's downfall.
>>64177033
>The problem is that everything else in the movie ranges from mediocre to shitty. In its gestalt, there are just way too many crappy qualities sprinkled across the movie to make it extremely good, even if it has some of my favorite moments from the trilogy and the franchise as a whole.
true, senpai. also look at the special effects compared to ROTJ. The blue screen effects are a lot worse. they had a cheaper budget or didn't have enough time and it shows
>>64178096
...do you mention this just so other people have to bear this cross of wondering "what if?"
Jedi is weighed down solely due to the fucking retarded ewoks and the stupidity of another death star. Changing it to what you mentioned would be goddamn gold.
Could've easily been better than empire. The scenes with Luke/Vader/Emperor are (probably) the best in the series.
One thing that always really bothered me about Return of the Jedi is that, upon rewatching, the showdown in the Emperor's throne room is revealed to be completely meaningless within the context of the larger conflict going on around them. I mean yeah, sure, it's an important moment of self-actualization for Luke and Vader's personal redemption - but outside of the throne room, none of that shit matters. It doesn't matter if Luke falls to the dark side, it doesn't matter if Palpatine murders him, it doesn't matter whether or not Vader chooses his master over his son. That's simply because the reality of the situation - totally separate from the events happening on board the Death Star itself - is that the Rebel fleet was still going to complete their mission and destroy the space station. So what if Palpatine had succeeded in swaying Luke, or if Vader had chopped Luke's head off in the lightsaber duel? They would all die in a blazing inferno just a few minutes later. It kind of downplays the gravitas of what is supposed to be a climactic moment, given the fact that the Empire is going to get fucked regardless.
>>64177061
why am i even responding to this bait
>>64178725
>a few minutes later. It kind of downplays the gravitas of what is supposed to be a climactic moment, given the fact that the Empire is going to get fucked regardless.
naw. it really doesn't. if they weren't there then the emperor and vader could have been busy fucking the rebels up so they wouldn't blow up the death star.
like you said. it was the emperor's hubris that was the downfall of the empire. at that moment, to those 3 people it did matter because the death star didn't get destroyed until after the confrontation
>>64178725
I dunno, I always thought of Luke as sort of a distraction. As in, if he hadn't been up there, the Emperor (and Vader) would have been able to focus their full attention on the battle, and the Rebels might have lost. If Vader had been down with the garrison guarding the shield generator, the battle might have gone very differently. Instead, they had their attention elsewhere, and never noticed that the tide was turning against them.
>>64178724
Yeah its pretty disappointing when you think about it. I can't remember where exactly I read it, it was a couple years ago so I'll probably never find it now. But if you look around on google I'm sure you can find an article about it.
Oh, another thing I remember about it, was Jabba the Hutt wasn't actually a person/thing. He was this "faceless" mob boss that nobody ever interacted with, and they revealed that his entire criminal organization was run by Imperial spies or something to secretly fund the Empire. Because back then we never actually met Jabba in ANH, he was only ever talked about until Jedi. Really promising stuff. Oh well though
>>64178725
Comments like these are why I still come to /tv/. Well thought out and a different perspective.
I will say I disagree tho. Killing the emperor was critical, he was basically ruled the galaxy with an iron fist and exerted his will either through domination, force manipulation, or terror.
Had Luke not redeemed his father, thus killing the emperor, the entire mission would've just been a setback for the empire. They have a galaxy's worth of resources, of course they could just build more fleets/armies. Throwing them into disarray was the key.
You have to think, surely Palpatine, who can quasi-see the future, would be smart enough (as Luke was) to board the first ship in the dock and escape if the facility was about to explode.
>>64176530
>those stories of how she slept with star wars fans at cons decades ago
fuck I wish I was there too
>>64176758
>>64178827
But see, it's not so much "Luke's existence is entirely meaningless" as opposed to it being "the second Luke enters the throne room, the Emperor's fate is sealed". The actual resolution of his confrontation with Vader and Palps holds no actual weight so long as it keeps them busy. All Luke needed to do was spend like twenty minutes dying and the Rebel Alliance still would have won. For the three of them, the weight of ... well, everything is bearing down on that showdown. Of course. It's what all three of them have been waiting for, it's three complex character motivations converging on a single moment. It's still very meaningful to them. But to me, as a viewer who already knows that Lando and Wedge are gonna pound that ass regardless, it ends up feeling a little tepid.
Don't get me wrong. The whole sequence is baller, probably among the top three of the entire series if not the absolute best. It was a really competent way to wrap up an epic saga. But in light of that, the futility of Luke's choice kind of takes away from it all.
>>64179011
I doubt it would have been lived up to your imagination.
There's a reason why she looks completely dead inside during the Holiday Special. Cocaine is a hell of a drug.
>>64176530
Nice bait thread.
>>64179114
>you will be fucked wild by a drugged up carrie in her prime
feels terrible: absolutely terrible
>>64179084
>as a viewer who already knows that Lando and Wedge are gonna pound that ass regardless
You have to remember that, the first time watching it, we didn't all know this.
>>64178945
>>64178724
http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/5-things-you-may-not-know-and-5-ways-that-return-of-the-jedi-could-have-been-much-much-cooler-20130524
Heres part of it. I don't see a mention of Coruscant or wookies or anything, so I might just be remembering different versions and combined them into one. But this article mentions Han sacrificing himself, and Luke wandering into the sunset alone
>>64179177
Oh yeah, of course. That's why I said "rewatching" in my original post. I'm not pretending to be smarter than you guys (especially since I was probably like eight the first time I saw it). It's just the slight bathos of realizing, upon reflection, Luke's action's in the throne room ultimately add up to, as >>64178926 pointed out, a distraction. The hero's journey is utter pablum if his choices bear zero weight. If Luke had been a fuckboy and decided to side with the Emperor, the Emperor still would have lost as long as Luke took long enough to decide. His heroism ends up being completely overshadowed by the agency of secondary characters. As soon as he was brave enough to confront Vader and Palpatine, the rest of his victories were moral ones.
And I'm not saying that's thoroughly meaningless! Just that it seems like an inappropriate way to end it all, considering.
>>64179159
Well I for one would have felt terrible afterward, if not during.
>>64179188
It should be noted that some of those ideas date to from before the first movie was even made, and were long gone by the time they got around to filming Jedi.
>>64179363
>I was probably like eight the first time I saw it
I was four, so you probably did get something different from it than I did.
>>64178725
I disagree, we see the emperor using his crazy magic on Luke and think "what if he wasn't distracted?" What if he could use his lightning, or some other crazy force shit to destroy the ships in the station's interior? He wasn't there for the first death star, but maybe he came to this death star to make sure no rebels could possibly destroy it?
At this point in the series, we don't know the limits of the force. I remember seeing the lightning shoot out of the emperor and thinking holy shit, this guy is a master wizard and could do anything.
The EU talks about this as well, which isn't relevant for the cinema but does explain that Jedi/Sith can do battle meditation, which allows soldiers to instinctively react to stimuli received by other soldiers. In the EU, the second the emperor dies, the Imperial fleet goes into disarray.
![BBJP15374_600[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/X9qRhew.jpg "BBJP15374_600[1].jpg")
>>64176530
>There are people who didn't like ewoks
They are fucking living teddy bears. Fuck you guys.
>>64179659
y'know, this is a really good point actually. I guess I've been spoiled by all those star wars video games, because at this point, force lightning is kind of just "another one of those powers"too much Jedi Academy, I think. I've failed to consider that initial moment where Palpatine reveals that he can do fucking anything, and Luke poses - and has always posed - zero personal threat to him.
but it still means Luke is the sacrificial lamb. he doesn't need to prove the Emperor wrong, he just needs to hold his attention while the fleet does the dirty work. I've always loved that moment immediately prior to the Emperor using his lightning, when Luke deactivates his saber and calmly informs Palpatine that he is a Jedi, just like Anakin was. I hate feeling as if that decision is less important.
>>64179865
Even to the degree that it doesn't affect the success or failure of the Rebel cause, it's still important within the context of the story, because we are invested in the characters, not just the cause. We want Luke to redeem his father. In context, that's every bit as important as the Rebels winning.
>>64177038
Yeah yeah it's the moon of endor... everyone including games, toys, books and comic still call it endor.
But Return of the Jedi is and has always been my favorite Star Wars film.
>>64176530
Anyone have the original top half of this pic?
