You are now aware that in the novelization, it's explained that Anakin was conflicted over whether he should slay the younglings or show them a secret passage out of the temple. It was only when Sors Bandeam mistakenly said, "Master Skywalker, there are too many of them! What are we going to do?" that Anakin was reminded of how the Jedi Council inexplicably denied him the rank of Master without explanation, and that feeling of betrayal was powerful enough to harden his resolve and give him the strength he needed to complete his mission.And yes, I realize some of you know this already but I'm surprised it doesn't get talked about more.
Are the novelizations good reads?
>>64067956
>triggered by a 4 year old treating him with respect and looking for guidance
Even worse tbqh
>>64067956
The idea is fine, it just wasn't pulled off well
and they're Younglings fyi
>>64067989
yeah, ani and obi have some top bantz
>>64067996
agreed...
He still killed children dude.
"I'll get revenge on the jedi masters by killing their students who happen to be unrelated, and drafted without choice from random parts of the galaxy"
I re-watched RoTS for the first time as an adult over 20 years old and caught on a lot of the emotional nuances and factors at play. It makes a lot more sense than when I was 11 years old the first time.
>>64068023
Neat, I'll check em out.
>>64068030
If you're lying to yourself, believing the Jedi are in on trying to subvert the Republic and a threat, on top of the other shit that happened against him, it's a lot easier to blindly say "this is for the greater good"
>>64067956
But shouldn't that remind him that most of the rank and file believe in him and respect him as the chosen one despite the Council?
>>64067996
I know how he feels though. I used to work as a sub-editor at this French satirical daily. One day, one of the interns called me "editor" by mistake just a week after I was passed up for a promotion.
The rest is history.
>>64068088
THAT'S COLD, JAY
>>64068088
trust me being an editor is no better. i am an alcohol and have to fight with myself to not end it all everyday
>>64068253It was a Charlie Hebdo joke.
>>64068253
The difference is you get paid more.
>>64067956
>Actually showed empathy toward innocent children.
>Decided to slaughter them cause he got triggered by some innocent kid because he was being a bitter faggot about not being made a Master.
If anything this makes him look even worse.
>>64068058
Yeah hitler did the exact same thing.
Not even a fallacy, hitler really did believe that killing people helped the greater good.
You're saying 'oh anakin isn't that bad, he's only space hitler'
>>64067956
That only makes his actions all the more retarded.
>>64068341
Hitler didn't have the enormous and intoxicating power of the Dark Side raging through his veins for the first time
all he could probably see was the smug faces of future asshole Jedi
Novelizations, comic books, and video games don't fix a shit movie anon. Nor does him throwing a temper tantrum over a slight he felt at his master's hands justify murdering defenseless children.
>>64067956
>>64067996
I laughed my ass off.
>>64067956
Please stay away from humans if you haven't already isolated yourself due to antisocial behavior
>>64067956
uh yeah, he isn't exactly smiling during that scene.
>>64068400
You're no better than Anakin!
>>64067956
shit, that just makes it even more comedic
>Well I guess murdering all these children would be pretty fucked u-- wait did he just facetiously call me "Master"?
>>64067956
"BUT I WANNA BE A REAL MASTER! REEEEEEEEEEEEEE!"
"M-m-mastah Skyw--"
VWSHHH
>Hey maybe I should help these kids out. After all they're just kids and never asked for this.
>Master Skywalker, there are too many of them! What are we going to do?
>"Master" Skywalker?! That's the final straw you little shit.
The more I think about the prequels the more I realize there is no dignified way to show someone "fall to the dark side".
Remove all the light/dark metaphors and it just means you are predisposed to be a psychotic weirdo who would enjoy living in a Nazi regime.
Someone post the line from the novelization about peace
>>64067956
>You are now aware that in the novelization
Stopped reading there.
>>64068479
Stop for a second and realize, from his point of view, he doesn't see a guy with spooky eyes and a booming evil score in the background turning to evil with an omniscient view of evilness in the future
He chose a side that he felt would benefit him and those he loved more. he wouldn't have even done it if Windu didn't try to finish Sheev off instead of following regular protocol.
>>64068088
you murdered them all and they allow you internet access from prison? Are you european?
>>64068297
and you get more respect.
You're right OP, that totally makes the wholesale slaughter of dozens of children completely relatable and of far less consequence.
THEY MADE FUN OF ME FOR BEING DENIED MASTER WHILE SITTING ON THE COUNCIL
THEY'RE LIKE ANIMALS
AND I SLAUGHTERED THEM LIKE ANIMALS
NOW YOU SEE, PADME, THAT I AM THE SUPREME JEDI
>>64068526
Yea, sorry, but the whole "hes being mind controlled" bit just makes t he writing worse. For when you introduce something like complete mental domination, you kinda lose any dramatic element. Especially if the core of the mind control requires no one ever realize it.
Then, of course, the mind control completely fails later, when you should be even more powerful, when the subject is a goddamn farmboy with a week of training.
>>64068339
The Council was right not to promote him.
>>64068479
Sure there is. Say, for example, Anakin perceived that his mother was still alive, and he was presented with a choice of either sneaking in and risking her life, or charging in and killing everyone to ensure her safety. Present the character with legit moral quandaries that makes the dark side seem like an attractive answer. Don't just have the guy betray everyone he every loved for the sake of an empty promise from someone that up until recently he knew by acquaintance only.
>>64067956
>You are now aware that in the novelization,
not canon, nobody cares
fag.
I wonder if Anakin had to chase a few of them around the room like a Benny Hill routine after he speared the first one with his lightsaber. I'm sure he got a few more just by the surprise of it, but at least one probably ran around and Anakin had to chase him and maybe even pull him from underneath one of the couches or something.
Maybe one or two of the braver ones grabbed their little baby lightsabers and tried to fight back, but Anakin just cut them down anyway.
>>64067956
>getting mad over not having a meaningless title in front of your name is good motivation to kill kids
bravo george
>>64068673
He should have just forced lightiniged them all
>unllliiimmmited powwwah
>>64068657
The level of stupidity we're supposed to accept from a 20 something year old MAN is beyond comprehension for that to even come close to working.
Furthermore the idea of sheev projecting 100% convincing hallucinations across basically any distance just makes him into a total god figure that didn't need anakin in the first place.
>Master Skywalker, there are too many of them! What are we going to do?
>HOW DARE YOU TAUNT ME SHITLORD
>>64068623
They are objectively potential threats to his new Master and regime. They have been indoctrinated with Jedi code and have abilities that could dilute the hierarchy of power in the new Republic.
If he lets them go he lets a host of force-sensitive kids with preliminary knowledge and predisposition to the light side and resistance go off and spread like little seeds on their own in the potential future.
He has no more connection to the Jedi Order and had been treated like, and felt like, an outsider since the beginning, culminating with the disrespect of being denied Masterhood after beating Dooku 1 on 1, saving Obi Wan and Palpatine both, and crash landing a fucking frigate to safety.
Couple that with a desire to save his wife and children and you have natural, objective, as well as emotional motivators that coincide with the craze-like intoxication he was in.
I really don't get where the whole "durr, it aint believeable cause he just turned like a switch for no reason and starting killing kids and shits" criticism came from because anyone with rational ability could see where his rash ass was coming from.
>>64067956
That only makes it worse.
>>64068760
>FUCKING KIDS!! HOW DARE THEY RESPECT ME!!
>er, sorry, younglings.
>MUST MURDER!!!
>>64068769
he should have really converted them to be Sith
but oh no, muh rule of two, thanks Darth Bane
goddamn that kids face, I cry like a little bitch whenever I see that shot
>>64067989
No
It's fucking plebeian fantasy trash
>>64068756
Even if you accept the EU theory that he was just promoting Anakin to steal his body, why would he bother to save his life at all once it had been ruined?
>>64068811
I think Sheev was clear in his intention of not having more than one "rival" in apprenticeship, it's a lot easier to control, and manipulate
He wanted one right hand man, not a bunch of people to conspire against him
>>64068756
He needed Anakin to subvert the prophecy.
>>64067996
LMAO this is like those 7 year old posting their cringe shit on FB/Twitter. Vader looks badass but when you look at his past...
>>64068673
>>64067956
>wahh council wouldn't make me master even though im the youngest to ever be this successful, i need more meaningless titles!!
>i'll try killing younglings! that's a good trick!
>>64068769
The problem is all of that requires 100% pure evil (or, at least, complete pragmatism) and devotion to sheev and the darkside from anakin in order for him to think MURDERING DEFENSELESS CHILDREN is the proper course of action.
But since we never see a reason for that total shift, any point, it just comes off as completely ridiculous, and the product of a man who has clearly never, at any point in his life, encountered real emotions.
>>64068670
As shitty as it is the novelizations are technically canon familia
>>64068844
He could have just been the prophecy.
>>64068013
younglings were fucking retarded fuck off
>>64067996
>>64068617
>>64068760
>>64067956
Goddamn, his line delivery was awful. I question the sanity of anyone who wasn't laughing their ass off.
>>64068894
disney axed the entire eu
>>64068881
I don't understand what you think his alternatives were
The only difference between them and the regular Jedi was age, which is one emotional barrier that he was able to supersede in the heat of the moment
>>64068673
>Vader was seduced by the dark side when a youngling accidentally reminded him he wasn't a Jedi master... and he was a good friend.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAQab-Ib8d8
>>64067956
Does George Lucas and the filmmakers have anything to do with the novelization or is it just a writer adding what is clearly missing from the film and it's scenes?
>>64068942
>slo-mo each time he kills a youngling
wowza
>>64068673
got somethin for u senpai:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzW727RY-ig
>>64068939
>the only difference between children and jedi with decades/centuries of training was the decades/centuries of training
...
>>64068937
Look up a list of accepted canon family, they're not treating the novelizations of the films the same way I guess.
>>64068975
>electrocutes all the kiddies
HAHAHAHAHAHA
>>64068939
And that makes him an iredeemable sociopath to literally everyone. It makes his redemption at the end seem empty too.
He deliberately sought those children out to murder them because sheev told him to. No motivation makes that seem appropriate.
Killing children is the work of an absolute wackjob, "heat of the moment" doesn't make him seem less of a rabid dog, and I don't see how feeling bullied by the order and worried about a dream as sufficient justification to cut down about 2 dozen children in cold blood.
>>64068978
i'm pretty sure any time the novelization writer had a question, he just called lucas and asked for clarification.
Otherwise the "HOW DARE THEY RESPECT ME! GRAAAAHHH" shit is completely bananas, and something no rational individual would come up with.
>>64068673
In the novelization people can land sixteen hits in a single second, he probably blitzed them all before they could react.
I wish Lucas would have bothered to film the scene where Palpatine actually tells Aniken to kill the younglings.
>After all the Jedi are killed you can meet back with me on Mt. Doom.
>Yes, my master.
>Oh, and don't forget to kill the younglings too.
>...You're serious.
>The Jedi are evil, Aniken. We must stop them at all costs.
>Couldn't we just... kidnap the younglings, Shreev?
>No, Anaken, you must cleave them in twain. And I'll know if you didn't go through with it because I'll check the security tapes later.
>...Okay. If it'll save Padme, I guess...
>>64067956Not posting the webm
>>64068986
They are both potential threats and entirely antithetical and inharmonious with the new Republic and the master he pled fealty to. The one who gave him clear orders to remove that footprint of the Jedi entirely. Not half-ass it.
>>64068881
Hell, if anything George seriously blew it by having Luke and Leia born in secret. You could have shown a much more gradual degredation in Anakin if he knew his children were alive- his reckless desire to end the war (resulting in the need for more prosthetics and to make more moral compromises) could have been driven by his desire to secure a better future for his children.
>>64069045
I think we are meant to think, due to extremely bad writing and him being a massive fucking retard, that he considers this (following Sheev) to be the only way he will be able to learn the power to save Pademe and his child from dying. So it's all these kids vs his wife and child.
>>64069045
>Muh children
This is the basis of your argument
how many women browse /tv/ these days
I mean, I felt terrible about it myself but yes the Dark Side is unscrupulous and harsh and yes he had to get his hands really dirty to complete his descent
Killing any of the Jedi was morally reprehensible but he was the new Empire hit man and it was his job
>>64069045
>only after you destroy the jedi will you be powerful enough in the darkside to save Padme
>no moitvation
>>64067989
Gay reads.
>>64069077
so complete pragmatism.
When did anakin become a moral relativist?
They really should have handled Anakin's transition to the dark side better. I need to ignore the prequels every time I watch the ending to ROTJ.
>>64069126
Do you browse /pol/ by any chance?
>>64068894
>technically canon
>caring about official canon
The only thing that matters is the films. Throw everything else out. Nobody cares. It doesn't matter.
>>64069060
So the novelizations make force-speed canon, but lucas couldn't figure out how to film it?
>>64069170
Really? sad
>tfw OP's defense completely backfired
>tfw OT-plebs will never appreciate the prequels for the patrician works of sublime art they are
>>64069189
They use force speed in the beginning to Phantom Menace.
>>64069160
When he slaughtered the Sand People.
>>64069207
and never again. At any point.
>>64068341
>killing people help[s] the greater good
isn't that the impetus of all wars? how is hitler different?
>>64069160
He didn't make that kind of rationalization himself. His master did it for him and gave him orders. Sheev is a master planner and strategist and knew what needed to be done. After killing Windu Anakin was in too deep and had to finish out the rest.
>>64069189
It was always canon, but I guess filming things in slow motion is pretty lame.
>>64068872
>>i'll try killing younglings! that's a good trick!
>>64069218
mmm, no, that's entirely reactionary. As they did kill his mother.
>>64069065
Looks fun as fuck honestly. What game is that from? Jedi Knight?
They really needed him to be a bit older and darker from the start and have a gradual series of conflicts between him and the Jedi lead up to him turning.
They also should of not made the Jedi seem 'all good' and made them so militant.
Before the prequels it was often thought Vader probably wanted to intervene in things the Jedi wanted to stay out of (because we thought they were space monks) and that this caused him to leave them, then the Jedi fucked him up (because they're not all perfect saints) and left him for dead and he came back as Vader-vader.
But of course the prequels made the Jedi soldier boys and "Anie's" a lil kid and a lil bitch
>>64069159
>Anakin stared at his ghostly almost-reflection while he reached into the room beyond with the Force, and let the Force reach into him.
jesus christ
>>64069126
Again, how does any of that make him not seem like a frothing maniac?
I felt nothing about Anakin and no longer cared about his later redemption from Vader and him doing it because it's his job or to sace his wife from a dream isn't enough to make it seem appropriate.
He was supposed to have been "seduced" by the dark side, not waltz into a daycare and slaughter it's occupants. There was no seduction, the course he undertook for the reasons he did made him seem like a sociopath from beginning to end, without exception. He only cared about himself and what he considered his the entire time.
>>64069265
its a custom sequence in KotOR, I believe.
>>64068617
haaa!
>>64069228
Hitler killed younglings
Most wars have different objectives where the killing is a means to an end- hitler was killing for elimination sake.
Of course he wasn't doing anything new, there have been at least 40 or so genocides just like that in the last couple thousand years, but it being common doesn't justify any of it.
>>64069251
Rage begets more rage and is incremental, as does hate. You get more and more morally bereft. How is this fucking lost on you, they reiterate it so much.
He said it himself: he killed the men, women, and children, not just the guy who tied up his mom and beat her. Total genocide of anyone associated with who he considered his enemy.
>>64069268
This so much. I think if Anakin were done better the prequels might be redeemed a little.
>>64069282
>There was no seduction
Did you miss the constant dialogue between him and Sheev, as well as the allusions with regards to their ongoing and long relationship? How about the scene in the fucking Opera House that tried to display it loud and clear? He was already on the emotional ledge after "failing" his mom. Not to mention an inherently rash personality. You think you're clever but in the end you're the actual autist who can't empathize with complex characters, even if Christensen's acting was oftentimes wooden his story was not.
>>64069162
Sorry he wasn't a Kylo edgelord who turned on the Jedi because they sent him to bed without supper AFTER they had the gall to tell him he had to eat his vegitubles.
>>64069170
>anybody that disagrees with me on social issues is automatically a /pol/ack
you can only call someone a /pol/ack without looking like a dumbass when the person unironically says nigger/dindu, kike, spic, mudslime/sandnigger, etc. and/or talks about how le white raec is so great
>>64069181
Then why are you saying they aren't canon? I don't think canon means what you think it means. You can disregard it and think it's dumb, and you would be justified, but that doesn't make it less canon.
>>64069303
Possibly because I have actual emotions and don't buy lucas' gradeschool understanding of humanity for a single second.
Furthermore, for your rationalization (read: an attempt to put the irrational in rational terms) to work, anakin would have needed to progressively slaughter more innocent/defenseless people across a large period of time BEFORE he started slaughtering sand people.
>>64069364
I never once mentioned Kylo. Fuck off.
>>64067956
>You are now aware that in the novelization
Who gives a fuck about the novelization you fucking nerd. Star Wars is a movie series, you dumb piece of shit.
Prequel apologists are the worst kind of human shit.
>>64069385
No he wouldn't have. It was still rationally feasible to see the "justification" for killing them. Then, he constructs further shoddy "justification" for killing Dooku, in the presence of Sheev. Finally, after his collapse, he can justify infanticide with "taking orders", eliminating a threat, and saving his wife who he is madly in love with.
Did Lucas fuck your wife?
>>64069401
>Prequel apologists are the worst kind of human shit.
bruh you gotta chill
>>64069381
>Then why are you saying they aren't canon?
Oh, I was a different person. I didn't realize you were responding to somebody who was deliberately talking about whether or not they were canon, rather than whether or not they mattered. My bad.
One of the children escaped. He was the father of rey
>>64069401
>>64069434
dude, no, you just simply bought lucas' bullshit narrative at a young age and are now stuck trying to defend your childhood.
or trolling.
Not sure which.
The books do not matter.
>>64069359
No, and none of that made him seem less like a completely warped person the entire time, which he was.
Him mirking all the sand people was also indicative of him being a complete maniac, the movies were written in such a way that, as early as the second movie, he was clearly a complete nut and had no business being around people.
A rash person does not chase women and children around a room and cut them to pieces with a sword. That is textbook psychotic behavior. Even in "the heat of the moment" your reaction to the possibility of death or loss should not be wanton murder. Anakin stopped being sympathetic after the first movie.
>>64069508
If we went to these kinds of lengths to cry about character arcs we could absolutely devastate the credibility of the OT as well buddy
>>64069541
And you are very welcome to elaborate upon that. I need a good laugh.
>>64069523
Maybe you're just a sensitive person
what did you really expect from the guy who was supposed to become Darth Vader, Jesus
>>64067996
>>64068442
>>64068473
>>64068467
It wasn't the title itself, it's what it represented to him. That in spite of everything he did, he just wasn't good enough.
It was all the pain that was probably building up for years finally boiling over.
>>64069302
animals kill offsprings that aren't theirs all the time. the "elite" in your society manipulate and kill kids too. heck, i bet you kill kids.
>>64069585
This. Whether or not they were kids or were being respectful is irrelevant, his rage mode activated and they just happened to be collateral.
>>64069541
The difference being the OT had an emotional center that allowed you to care about what was happening. The prequels were so dry and dull that you can't help but nitpick everything that happens.
>>64069566
>OMG, why did Leia recover so quickly after her fucking home planet and everyone she knew and loved was obliterated by a giant fucking blast in a matter of seconds
>How could I ever sympathize with Vader after being complicit in the deaths of millions of children, CHILDREN
>>64069585
>It was all the autism that was probably building up for years finally boiling over.
Ftfy.
Or it's just a retarded idea in the first place and should have been scrapped the moment it was suggested.
>>64069580
Some level of convincing articulation of what caused a person obi-wan described as "a good friend" to become a functioing psychopath.
As 20somethiong anakin is a complete and total maniac and never, at any point, "friend" material.
>>64069625
>Alderaan blown up
>Ben Kenobi looks grim for a second then the camera pans back to space chess
I really felt the emotional depth of the moment honestly
also how no one seems to really care that 95% of Luke's squadron dies trying to take down the death star
>>64069621
>his rage mode activated
that's the excuse of every psychopathic serial killer. "I just snapped."
>>64069630
That was Grand Moff Tarkin, not Vader. The most evil thing Vader ever did was choke some imperial officer who was giving him lip.
>>64069630
so you're comparing leia doubling down on her determination to destroy the empire with a man actively murdering children.
Thanks for playing.
>>64069523
Who knew the future Darth Vader would turn out to be a murderous psychopath?
>>64069580
It has nothing whatsoever to do with sensitivity. Anakin even burned their entire village to the ground to cover up what he did. He only admitted it to Padme because he was certain she wouldn't turn him in for it.
Anakin is literally a sociopath if you judge his actions by the prequels. There was no fall to the dark side because he was never good.
Even if you did walk in on someone raping your mum, and you killed them, no one would consider it the wrong reaction. But If you then walked through the neighborhood and killed his entire family and everyone in a 500 yard radius, you're fucking nuts man.
He reacted like a psychotic murderer because he was one. It wasn't being rash, it's just him being a fucking lunatic.
>>64069649
Obi Wan doesn't even regard Vader as Anakin
he flies to Mustafar to kill what he considers to be an "old friend" that is in too deep and lost
It's like conflicting personalities and the Dark one won out for the time being
>>64069649
You could have a sociopath as a friend and not even know about it.
>>64069709
So now we're down to split personalities to justify the prequels.
At some point, you have to realize you're done.
>>64069630
you are torturing children in the third world by buying sneakers and not donating to scam-of-the-month charities. this makes you just as bad as people who directly kidnap children and torture them physically.
>>64069566
Leia: My planet was just destroyed but I'm going to be facetious about the size of a "stormtrooper".
>>64069676
Yes, Lucas is a shitty director, we've been through this. A New Hope was saved in editing.
Why are prequel apologist such dumb twats?
>>64069630
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix5h-hZfLTY
>>64069685
She must be a pretty cold bitch then
Some form of sociopathy, I know if Earth was blown up I would be pretty devastated duders
yet we don't get any hint of that other than a little moan for a bit
Really wish they hadn't been so emotionally lazy and spent half the movie trying to convey the WEIGHT of what was happening instead of, you know, getting on with the fucking story like Lucas did in RotS
>>64069282
The force isn't supposed to work the way the movie portrayed.
You can argue when his mother was captured/killed he firmly stepped out of the light to the grey - the middle road between light and dark.
There should have been something more tangible.
Like this, the kid calls him master, it pisses him off, he screams in anger the jedi denied him his mastership, an adult padawan jedi bursts in, who witnessed Anakin slaying older jedi, in an attempt to gather up the younglings and evacuate. They get into a lightsaber battle that blocks the exit for the younglings where Anakin easily cuts the padawan's head in half but not before the padawan tells the younglings whats going on.
After this some of the younglings, the more brazen few, fire their lightsabers to protect the group against an intensely enraged anakin, who demands surrender but one even nearly gets a clean hit on his leg and the slaughter begins, anakin kills 2 of the brazen ones and then force powers the room to contain the situation because he's furious and so he's not surrounded by 30 tiny people with short-sabers
>>64067956
Ohhhhhh he was conflicted about committing mass murder, you say? Too bad that changes nothing. The issue is that he went through with it.
>>64069715
In the prequels, obi-wan is given a ton of evidence that anakin is completely psychotic.
>People give Obi Wan shit for letting a guy who cut up a bunch of kids burn in a volcano
Anakin deserved everything he got
>>64069735
>you are torturing children in the third world by buying sneakers
Hell no, their lives would be a thousand times worse without a job.
>>64069730
>RoTJ
>Luke dead set on finding the "good" side of his dad and bringing him out
Shooting yourself in the foot there with your stubbornness
>>64069751
She doesn't get mad, she gets even, you're making a pretty poor case here.
>>64069776
so you're torturing them by not buying even more sneakers and ipods.
>>64069448
Stop watching bullshit and defending it, garbage boy.
>>64069698
What exactly did you expect from future Vader bud. You seem to think Anakin needed to be a gentle flower or a stable personality, which wouldn't make any sense.
>>64069698
So you're saying the Sand People do not promote a culture of kidnapping and rape? What do you think they were going to do with Luke in ANH. The women and children all contribute to the debauchery.
>>64069737
>>64069751
Heres the thing though, leia going full pragmatism in response to there being no other options is infinitely more believable than anything that happened in the prequels.
>>64069803
No she doesn't, she chills at the base while Luke goes full hail mary and manages the near impossible.
Some poor shitty writing, "muh Force" just taking over Luke and letting him hit a target like that? If he's just in some kind of force trance that makes it lazy
>>64069698
>Anakin is literally a sociopath if you judge his actions by the prequels.
Everyone in the prequels acts like either an autist or a sociopath. Ewan McGregor tried to give some personality to his character, but he was fed trash lines and bullshit scenes. -hell, if they had hammed it up, we would've had much better movies, but Jorge just takes himself too seriously and loves the smell of his own farts.
>>64067956
The movie did not explain that. That's a fault of the movie. When we critique Anakin, we're critiquing a part of the movie. So there's really no argument.
>>64069844
No it isn't. She gets all sappy when Solo's in trouble and he's just some Chad she met along the way. Jeopardizes her own life for him.
>>64069782
Except we see the emperor was playing luke like a fiddle until luke cuts off vader's hand, and realizes whats happening.
>>64069839
Donald pls.
>>64069862
It's implied Luke has been unconsciously using the Force his whole life. You know, with how he comments on how he bulls-eye womp rats back home.
>>64069803
She gets even by knowingly putting the rebel base in the cross-hairs of a planet destroying weapon and this blunder is only salvaged by Luke's lucky force-guided one in a million shot.
Fucking based.
>>64069523
Why don't you understand this? Killing them was a rational choice, since they could come back in 20 years and fuck them all in the ass. Many people in history have done this. You seem to think it was indiscriminate child killing; this is because you are retarded.
>>64069917
yes, and?
>>64069769
do tell
>>64069937
That is no explanation and an implication is lazy writing and lazy screenplay for a lazy movie with a lazy Deus Ex Machina
shit, why even watch Star Wars? I like all of my space operas 100% explained, 100% believable and scientifically justifiable, and with a full host of Oscar worthy performances
>>64069927
Luke is literally correct you fucking tard. I can't even believe you think that was a retort.
You are truly lost
>>64069989
The pretty constant chastisement of anakin's recklessness?
>>64070037
It's like a big bro who can't come to terms with the instability of his little bro who is clearly going off the deep end
Anakin was a dangerous project and it went off the rails
>>64070020
Because if not for the robot hand, and how it synced up with the had he cut from vader, luke would have never caught on to what sheev was doing, murdered vader in rage and ended up sheev's right hand man.
But, because luke caught on, sheev wasn't able to influence him anymore.
so in that scene, the weakness of sheev's "SUPER MIND CONTROL" (if you consider the prequels canon) is rational behavior. Which anakin never showed once.
>>64070096
>Your own conjecture
Thanks for playing. We've come full circle.
>>64070139
Feel free to elaborate.
>>64069813
95% of countries have labor laws banning that kind of labor for those under the age of 12.
Most of the countries that make shit like that have more permissive taxation and looser labor restrictions and regulations.
The US dollar is worth considerably more than say Malaysia. The cost of goods and services is considerably less in Malaysia than it is in the United States.
A bag of rice, like a 10lb bag of rice in Malaysia is sub 1 dollar, where in the US it's 10 dollars at least. There is money to be made off the exchange rate.
Don't like it? Then start getting behind people who ban outsourcing and insourcing, tighten immigration, and want to de-regulate and un-subsidize industry and the economy, until then enjoy your price fixed goods and stagnant wages.
Literally Macro fucking 101
>>64069698
Tbqh I consider murdering the entire family of someone I caught raping my mom a perfectly reasonable reaction.
A mother's love is a bond of stone. Some people have cracks in theirs but mine has never weathered.
>>64070190
You just outlined an alternate reality that does not occur
Not only that, you tried to provide "insight" into Luke's thought process that the movie did not
which is the exact premise of this thread, as well as your criticism of Anakin's character, which you cannot understand since a lot of the PT doesn't elaborate fully in your eyes
You are using a failure of the OT in elaboration, to justify your defense of the OT, after having criticized the "failure" of the PT to elaborate
Now you know that Star Wars is, in its entirety, one huge hamfisted shitfest
Glad we're past that moment of reality, I still love all of them as I don't suck the dick of the nearest perfectly executed movie on the market and have a bigger appreciation for the universe and characters with the imagination to make up for the shortcomings of the movies themselves
can you handle that?
>>64070255
Especially if you know for a fact that the cycle of violence will continue with generations on end.
>>64070096
I never got this logic
>I HATE YOU DAD, YOU'RE SO EVIL, YOU BLEW UP THAT PLANET AND HURT MY FRIENDS AND WILL TRY TO CORRUPT MY SISTER *kills him*
>welp, now that thats over I better serve his master who ordered him to do all those things and will still try to corrupt my sister
while he would be vaguely sort of in a disney way be morally compromised, I think he'd just murder the shit out of Sheev next, in fact Sheev would be better off for his own safety if Luke stayed a boy scout who would try to take him alive or some pussy shit
>>64070255
There's literally no evidence they were raping Shmi, and he killed an entire village. Would you kill entire town because someone had kidnapped your mom? And don't qualify it with some assuming bullshit like "well if they were all aiding in her capture and they were all bad people....." He admits to having murdered children
>>64070218
>The US dollar is worth considerably more than say Malaysia.
Currency conversion is a bit of a misnomer in this case. What's worth less (or worthless) in shitholes is labor, not currency. Food prices are inflated in the west because of farm subsidies put in place to ensure farming is worth while, as profitability is the only measure of worth in a capitalist system.
Deregulation would just put the west on malay/shithole economic terms, with the current corporate bodies either dying quickly or exponentially increasing in power and influence and ruling the world from a position of complete and total control and security.
But I'm just being pedantic.
>>64070289
>you tried to provide "insight" into Luke's thought process that the movie did not
Luke cuts off vaders hand. Looks at the stump. Looks at his, robotic, black gloved hand. Then stops fighting.
If you don't understand what happened in that scene scene, then your defense of the prequels makes prefect sense, and you are simply not capable of understanding why the movies are garbage.
>>64070421
Yes, children that will grow up and kidnap other people's mothers. It's analogous to ISIS.
>>64070096
That mind control bullshit is such a handwave
Might as well say his midichlorians can manipulate luck or some shit
>>64070499
And if you murder the children of someone in ISIS, you are still murdering innocent children
>>64070493
>It's fine to glean insight from your own observations in the OT, but not the PT
L M A O
M
A
O
>I'm 100% sure Luke would have driven his saber through a helpless Vader had he not seen le robot arm
L M A O
M
A
O
>durr the dual personality thing is garbage
>Vader DID have a good personality left in him which finally surfaced after seeing his truly beloved son and image of his bygone wife being tortured to death by the Emperor
L M A O
M
A
O
>>64069676
Innocents being murdered don't have the same weight as a group of men who carry themselves as if they know that they likely won't survive the mission. As for aldeeran, no one else on the ship could even perceive what had happened until they witnessed it later.
>>64070527
If their destiny is predetermined based on empirical fantasy genre evidence, then all you're doing is killing a bunch of prepubescent Hitlers.
>>64070412
Its just lucas, really. You can tell that was lucas' idea of sheev's plan, but then it was basically defeated by a character acting rationally.
>>64070584
For some, having knowledge as a Jedi and a rudimentary understanding of the light side is enough to corrupt innocence
Namely, Sith Lords
pretty easy to play justification games
I don't think the prequels are well made but RoTS on its own is not bad, it's fucking sci fi
>>64070583
There is nothing to glean in the OT. Everything I stated is explicitly shown. You have to literally make up shit from nowhere to make sense of the prequels.
>>64069401
TFA apologists are worse. They're already conditioning themselves to justify the shittiness of episode VIII and IX and they haven't even been made yet.
>>64070709
>the shittiness of movies that haven't even come out yet
Irony isn't a part of your vocabulary, is it?
>>64070656
Anakin, then Vader, are two conflicting Light and Dark personalities, as explained by both the OT and PT
you unironically cannot refute that and are using speculation to defend yourself
Yeah man, IF Luke had gotten the gumption to drive a saber through his helpless dad's body we may never have been shown that the good part of Anakin was still somewhere in that head, which completely contradicts your proposed inconsistency, but it didn't, and we know, so you're wrong lol
>>64068928
He's meant to be saying master in a really sarcastic way too, like he's mocking Anakin, to get across the idea that that was what pushed Anakin over the edge. But oh no that kids shitty acting had to ruin the whole scene.
>>64069065
What game is this senpai
>>64070603
Was getting thrown down the shaft part of his plan?
>>64070754
>4 year old mocking an adult over not getting a job promotion
Did that make sense in your head
>>64068088
Kek
>>64070742
You should realize once you try to present multiple personalities to justify a bit of writing, you've made it worse than can be justified
The easiest and most complete asspull literary device ever committed to paper. Especially if it is never once hinted at, at any point.
>>64070433
Something people don't get is the corporations only exist at all due to regulation, the idea of a company having legal personhood is enforced by government laws, they're only so financially stable because of government bailouts and literal welfare and they have such limited competition because of government regulations making getting your own business up to that level so complicated.
>>64067956
>thinking there's any excuse for slaughtering children
jesus christ, reddit
Yeah i attack children when they call me dad.
>>64070709
Don't deflect, faggot. We're discussing the prequels and the human garbage who defend them.
>>64070929
Are you black?
>>64069585
"Wow, I'm the youngest member of the council ever, but I'm not a master yet?!? WHAT THE FUCK!? I LIVE SUCH A TORTURED EXISTENCE, I AM LITERALLY #1 IN EVERYTHING AND THE SECOND I STOP BEING SUCH AN EMO RETARD I WILL BE A MASTER IMMEDIATELY."
"I DON'T HAVE TIME TO WAIT ANOTHER YEAR, I NEED EVERY SINGLE ONE OF MY LIFE GOALS DONE THIS VERY FUCKING MINUTE!!"
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>64070877
What do you think the Dark and Light side of the Force are
do you even like Star Wars?
>>64070806
You're meme'ing but that's a decent point.
All the explosions and shit after getting tossed down the shaft was sheev attempting to achieve a force ghost type of ascension, like obi-wan and yoda and others, by "dark side" techniques. Force of will, anger, rage, hatred, negative emotions, etc. The result was a huge explosion of everything sheev was reverberating across the force, and then nothing, as he simply dissipated.
Whereas yoda and anakin (and bill and ted and robocop) were able to force ghost by calmly imprinting themselves upon the force, like floating on the dead sea.
Fuck the OT was good.
>>64070754
Yes, I'm sure a child was trying to be sarcastic while everything around him was going to shit.
>>64070412
Yeah, that never made sense to me either. That's partly why it seems silly to point out holes in the logic of TFA. Star Wars has always been illogical.
>>64067956
Novelizations are fucking stupid
>>64070837
>equating a "job promotion" to what amounted to knighthood in the Jedi order and conversely amounted to a grave slight and sign of disrespect and lack of approval on the Council's behalf
yeah man
>>64070886
Sure. But the problem with the desire to deregulate, is its not like the currently existing global corporate entities would just cease to exist. They'd be in a position where they have a choice between spending every cent they have to find a way to survive or ceasing to exist. So post-regulation, a lot of corporate entities would die, and small number would become for-profit nations.
>>64070649
The difference here is you're making shit up to defend a scene while I'm using context provided by the movie. Anakin's turn goes from pragmatism to full psycho murder spree with nothing set in between. I get why Palpatine wanted the kids dead, but Anakin's sudden willingness to do such a thing doesn't make him look conflicted, it makes him look like an attack dog with no personality.
>>64071046
The force itself is just there. Light and dark side are basically just Aesop's fable of the sun and the wind, respectively.
>>64069268
I was so sure that like 10 Jedi would ambush him and he's slowly get worn down and dismembered in an epic brutal fight and left for dead. He'd be thought dead and return as Vader and hunt them down 1 by one.
He'd allow Yoda and Obi to go into exile since they had nothing to do with his ambush.
But nope, he had to kill a buncha kids and cry and get chopped up by Obi.
Also how to fuck does Padamea die from childbirth when they have the tech to keep greivis alive as a head and some guts visibly exposed, dangling in a cyborg frame.
Spaceships and cyborgs but they can't do a fucking C-section?
>>64071184
But sheev flipped his switch
>>64071184
When was Anakin ever pragmatic? This nigger spent the entirety of his teen years obsessing over a bitch he wasn't allowed to have, then knocked her up, willing to jeopardize the entirety of his Jedihood in the process. Always defying Obi Wan. Thinking he could stop fate. He was foolhardy as fuck.
There was no way a stable, coherent, pragmatic, character could fulfill the role of good guy transitioning towards pure evil and the Dark. No way. Ridiculous expectations.
![5317796+_bca41d56371dc3d24251a5733546f2ce[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/SMRGBPp.png "5317796+_bca41d56371dc3d24251a5733546f2ce[1].png")
>>64067956
>novelization
Stopped reading there. If you need additional literature to explain your movie then you've just made a shit movie.
>>64071225
>Also how to fuck does Padamea die from childbirth when they have the tech to keep greivis alive as a head and some guts visibly exposed, dangling in a cyborg frame.
She lost the will to live, the robot nurse said so.
>>64071287
The idea of such a descent being done well was why people were so hyped for the prequels.
there is no expanded universe
there is only one and its george lucas and disney'a universe which you will find to be one in the same
>>64071303
What about her kids?
Did she just not give a fuck about them?
>>64067996
it was just the word "master"
I can totally understand this
>>64068088
underrated
>>64071430
She just was so in love. Perhaps you could say love had blinded her.
>>64071503
but she was too much like sand?
>>64068756
wait Sheev was mind controlling his paranoia? I thought it was just a self fulfilling prophecy
>>64067956
>have a high position in a company
>get a promotion but don't become a CEO
>go on a rampage on take your child to work day killing everyone
Oh yes, completely justified.
>>64071536
That's not what I meant!
>>64069159
I liked the full page that was given to describe Anakin staring at Obi-Wan's ass when they were escaping down the elevator shaft
>>64071551
Apparently Sheev can mind control everyone in the galaxy all of the time, except when the Rebellion starts. Then he can't
>>64071598
>stuck writing a novelization of bullshit for a madman
>sneak in some homoeroticism
That man is a hero. I assume lucas had him shot into orbit without a suit.
>>64071733
Wait, are all the novels this gay?
I need to know, for research purposes.
>>64071680
Because at that point people are angry.
ANGRY ABOUT CLONES
>>64071303
No, it was sheev again. He used her life force to save aniken.
>>64071818
Its a fundamental law of the universe that the less willing your ghost writer is to write your shit, the more homoeroticism he'll try to sneak in.
>>64071929
That's why that shit happened in Hannibal, senpai?
>>64072016
nah, there was just as much homolust in the books.
>>64071287
Leaving aoe the quality of everything that came before it, Anakin defending Palpatine in that moment does have a degree of pragmatism to it. He honestly believed that Sheev was the only person alive who could save his wife and children, and Mace was about to kill him. Of all the stupid retarded cap that happens in the movie, that moment at least made some sense.
>>64067956
>"Master Skywalker, there are too many of them! What are we going to do?
did this fucking kid thought they could DO anything? like wtf, you were fucked from the start lmao.
>>64071680
There's a fair defense of that, but prequel apologists won't touch it.
Sheev can only influence people to do what they already want to do.
But it means anakin was a complete and total psycho every second he was alive, therefore zero character arc, start to finish. Completely invalidating the prequels.
i dont understand how the jedi didnt understand the prophecy. anakin was the chosen one, destined to bring balance to the force. people have taken that and applied it to luke instead. but theyre missing the keyword. BALANCE. only light is not balance. anakin DID bring balance to the force by eliminating most of the jedi until there were just two left. obi wan and kermit. two jedi, two sith. light and dark in perfect balance
>>64072335
its also worded in a semi-sneaky fashion that only works because lucas forces it to.
"bring balance to the force." As in "some" rather than "total."
But lucas is on redcord as thinking "balance" and "harmony" are identical
>>64068088
>▶
je suis Anakin
trying to justify the prequels is like telling an SJW to not hate white men
>>64072419
It works perfectly well while you're fucking them?
>>64072435
can't have sex with a star wars movie mate
>>64071303
That was pure shit writing.
>>64071901
That's better. I was expecting that Sheev was causing the dreams too but we never get a reveal. Still the presentation of her death (and most stuff in prequels) was lazy and stupid.
I also wanted to know why Sheev wanted to make the Empire. What does such a powerful person actually gain from all those years of manipulating the wars. It would have been easy to imply he needed the Empire/resources/control to do achieve some Force related thing (immortality?Personal revenge) But we get nothing.
>>64068088
>>64072467
Hence the question mark.
And that sounds like a challenge.
>>64069065
It's not the Episode III game?
>>64072335
You've misunderstood Lucas' intentions. The Jedi submit to the force, leaving it in its natural state. The sith try to dominate the force, and they twist and corrupt it by doing so. It was the sith who threw the force out of balance, and destroying them restores balance to the force.
It's not some yin-yang nonsense.
