Why exactly did Fin leave the First Order again, the exact reason? Was it because he was ordered to kill innocent people, that he was killing for the First Order, or simply shock from battle because his comrade died in front of him?I just dont understand why he had no problem killing people less than a few hours, if not one hour, later when he shot down many stormtroopers while leaving the star destroyer
>Fin
>>64030622
Becauseit's what's right
>>64030622
Because killing innocent people begging for their lives is different than killing people who are trying to kill you, you dense motherfucker
>>64030622
I think the difference was killing in self defense.
On his first mission he was in a situation where they were basically firing on defenseless people. Sure some in the village were shooting back, but the First Order started it.
Later in the film Fin only really shoots/stabs those who are actively trying to kill or capture him.
What was the point of this character anyway?
He didn't want to kill innocent people. Just innocent people. He didn't want to be on the side that kills innocent people. That's it. This isn't worth "debating" about, it'll never matter
Americans might not understand this but there is a big difference between being ordered to massacre unarmed civilian prisoners and having to defend yourself from soldiers trying to kill you.
>>64030663But Fin knows that other stormtroopers are like him. Forced since birth to be here, and possibly just like him, have never been in a battle yet. That doesnt make any senseThat also assumes that his main reason was that he was told to kill innocent people. Was it? I dont remember his exact lines
What I'm wondering is why he was so eager to go on what could've been a suicide mission at the end when he was so afraid to die before. Maybe he felt he actually had a purpose with the resistance and wasn't just a cog in the machine?
Or, and this is my primary theory, I believe Cpt. Phasma regularly raped him for his BBC and he finally couldn't take it anymore.
>>64030690
A sympathetic coward who grows into a capable warrior who defends his real friends.
>>64030622
How many times are you gonna make this thread. Not once does Finn ever say he has a problem killing people, he just has a problem with the way the First Order do it.
because heDindu NuFinn
>>64030687His first mission was also in self defense, that storm trooper being killed was what set his entire character into motion.
>>64030622
>brainwashed for 20 years
>go to first battle
>suddenly not brainwashed
It should have been more gradual.
>>64030779
Thats what I'm asking, what were his exact lines?
"It was the right thing to do."-Finn
"“You must do what you feel is right, of course." -Obi wan
Obi Wan's force ghost spoke to him.
>>64030744
He doesn't want to kill stormtroopers, he just looks fucking scared most of the time and he never volunteers to go attack them, but he has to to protect himself and save Rey at the end.
He never says why he quit but there is an obvious scene where he's already scared and Phasma orders them to shoot he civvies and he doesn't and just stands there acting frightened, then after that he is mostly saving his own skin since he knows Phasma knows he didn't fire his weapon once and he'll get "reconditioning" (probably getting raped by her).
At first he was scared because he had never experienced live combat and his friend/comrade dies right next to him and smears his blood on Finn.
Then when the fighting is over and the common folks who weren't even fighting the Stormtroopers are begging for their life, Finn has moral objections to killing them
>>64030744
>But Fin knows that other stormtroopers are like him. Forced since birth to be here, and possibly just like him, have never been in a battle yet
And I'm sure that if they hesitated like he did and didn't try to kill him, he'd return the favor.
Just because he's not a cold blooded killer doesn't mean he's going to just let some niggas shoot him.
>>64030751
he was orbiting Rey and thought that white knighting her would get him out of the friendzone
you don't need to spoilertag all of this shit, it's been a week now
fucking redditors
>>64030832
this
>>64030744
Do you actually need self defense spelled out to you with dialogue?
>>64030912
>Just because he's not a cold blooded killer doesn't mean he's going to just let some niggas shoot him.
Except he did. He ran away in his first gunfight and literally let some niggas shoot at him.
>And I'm sure that if they hesitated like he did and didn't try to kill him, he'd return the favor.
How could he know that? If you have a problem shooting strangers who seem innocent since you dont know them, it would see to go both ways with the ones wearing white armor and the ones who arent.
>>64030751
He was a beta that was thirsty for Rey so he lied and did everything to try and get her. And still at the very end she calls him her friend.
>>64030969
>Do you actually need self defense spelled out to you with dialogue?
He ran away in his first battle when he was being fired upon but had no problem firing back at storm troopers.
Him panicking and then shooting would have made sense but instead he starts celebrating with poe when he kills people.
>>64030751
>>64030891
>Phasma will never rape you
>>64030987
>with ones who are wearing white armor
You mean the ones wearing white armor with blasters that apparently have no problem gunning down anyone in their path? Those hypothetical innocents in white armor? Are you being deliberatel6 obtuse?
>>64030628 Fin
They call me MISTER Fin.
OP here
Just to be clear I dont want to waste your time with another debate about the film. If you could point to Fin's exact lines Id delete this thread.
>>64030832
to be fair, that's not really realistic
this isn't a character study of Finn, the movie doesn't have time for that
>>64030744
I know he tells Rey that he made the decision there that he "wasn't going to kill for them." So I'm guessing it's not killing that he had a problem with, he must have just realized that the First Order is fucked up.
>>64031035
probably because that was his first ever combat experience as he says and they are not targeting him specifically so just hiding is a valid option, unlike after he esccapes and stormtroopers are specifically aiming for only him and if he just tried to just flee he'd get blasted
>>64030744
>entire post is in spoiler tags
everyone here has already seen it, just fucking post you faggot
>>64031060
>You mean the ones wearing white armor with blasters that apparently have no problem gunning down anyone in their path? Those hypothetical innocents in white armor? Are you being deliberatel6 obtuse?
Fin is one of those hypothetical innocents. Again, he lives with those troopers. He knows that there are troopers who havent been in a fight yet, that people get reconditioned.
Think about that for a second. There is such a thing called reconditioning, and Fin knows what it is. This happens, this is a thing, and Fin knows, and he fires away.
That doesnt mean his character is fucked, that is why I am asking for his exact lines.
>>64031117
forgot
>pic related
>>64030832
he clearly has his own personality so they are not literally putting him in a brainwashing machine every day or whatever, he knows about the outside world and that Han is considered a war hero so probably is allowed to mingle with outsiders when on-planet
>>64031101
>doesn't have time for that
>it's a trilogy
>>64031229
This
>>64031229
>>64031251
Well they'd have to have him as a completely separate storyline for at least one entire movie, it'd be a bit ridiculous.
>>64031101
So why not show it at all? If they just showed Mr.Rebel pilot get captured and some random stormtrooper decides to help him instead later revealing backstory through expository dialog. Would that work?
>>64030891
This. I was under the impression that he was in serious trouble after freezing up on the battlefield, and getting noticed by Kylo Ren. I kinda assumed "reprogramming" was a euphemism for execution, but I could be wrong.
>>64030622
Star Wars logic, same reason Anakin suddenly decided that it was necessary to kill all of the Jedi younglings
>>64031101
so they'd rather have scenes with the talking orange than explain both of the male leads. what a sham
>>64031184
So if he's not being brainwashed why would he fight with them anyway, they should give people legit reasons to fight for the empire at least.
>>64031101
Are you fucking kidding me?
Han Solo was some narcissistic little shit who needed an entire movie to learn how to be a team player and help others, and still kept the attitude for an entire other movie.
Fin is supposed to be a main character. He needs to develop in some fucking way besides being some damsel in distress for the other main character.
>>64031471
I'm not saying he can't develop
but you guys are suggesting that the films should go in depth with his whole backstory which is just ridiculous and not at all in line with what the OT did. The way he was introduced was clumsy but you can't have an entire movie with him as a reluctant stormtrooper. Maybe some thing like:
>>64031317
would work, but otherwise idk
>>64031072
Tehehe Mr Tibbs how fun
Why exactly did Agu leave the ECOMOG to fight for the NDF? Oh yeah, they killed his family.
All we needed was one scene showing that maybe Fin and the storm trooper that died in his arms were friends or brothers or something. That would've been enough to make it believable that h would suddenly want to leave.
>>64030622
He realized the shit wasn't for him. Gunning down innocent people isn't for everyone.
>>64030622
Jesus christ, how hard is it to figure this out
>Hey you, kill unarmed people for no reason
Refuse
>Multiple parties trying to kill you
Kill in self defense
How fucking difficult is it to understand this?
>>64032035
Maybe it's even implied he was against the inherent evil the first order [and the dark side] represents. His reaction was to fight it when cornered.
>>64032109
a decent amount of the /tv/ population is autistic m8
they don't catch onto things easily
>get brainwashed from birth
>your sense of right and wrong comes from the empire who raise you from the cradle
>somehow end up being an anti-empire moralfag instead
makes no fucking sense, retarded unjustifiable bullshit
Didn't Finn mention that he was stationed in Sanitation?
Maybe that raid on Jakku was his first actual combat mission, and he just couldn't cope with the aftermath.
>>64030622
Snoke programmed him as a sleeper agent
to lead him to luke, Finn doesn't even know it
>>64032109
>kill in self defense
>WOOHOOOO DID YOU SEE THAT! YEAH AWESOME
honestly if he wasn't whooping and laughing during every self defense kill it would be much better.
>>64030622
I thought the force was with in him too, that is what broke him of his usual programing. of course I could be wrong but the force made him react to the loss of life. I hope it is the force I want him to become a jedi himself.
Just got back from seeing it. I was really disappointed with Fins character. I actually got mad hype when he said come get it.
>>64030622
His only goal was to flee, and he needed a pilot (Poe). He didn't have a problem with killing stormtroopers because he just wanted to get away
>>64030622
while watching the movie i reasoned it was just a plot hole, like han mentioning "if I know Luke he's gone to search the first jedi temple ever"
but
>be janitor at base, wiping floors all day in stormtrooper costume
>eventually get combat duty
>dis shit aint fo me mayne
>tries to leave but force shenanigans make him a pivot in the plot
there is a point where he tries to leave with a pair of dudes for the outer rim but then the first order shows up and TRAITOR happens
>>64030622
after watching his lifelong companionJake the Dogso coldly taken away from him on his first real mission he just couldn't hack it anymore.
plus he was basically just the janitor and they decided to let him tag along on a zero-risk terror mission to see if his conditioning was holding up. it wasn't.
>>64031337
They don't have enough troops, so it's probably brainwashing.
>>64030622
He runs out of fear. He knows that he is going to be reconditioned once they inspect his blaster and realise he didn't fire any shots. He simply didn't want to be a part of it and so tries to get as far away as he can. There wasn't anything noble in his actions. Even Poe mentions that he was only rescuing him because he needed a pilot. Once they landed on the planet, he tried to immediately abandon the resistance so that he could escape to the outer rim. He was an opportunist who mainly wanted to escape but still had a good heart.
All the scene with the stormtroopers in the transport needed was Finn and his stormtrooper buddy giving each other some kind of signature brofist or something so it means more when his buddy immediately dies in their first battle. This would have made Finn defecting more believable. Also , Finn is force sensitive so he could resist the First Order's brainwashing.
>>64031087
Its called subtext you twat.
>>64032367
The idea is that some people are just fundamentally good and no amount of conditioning will change that.
