Is he the worst villain ever? He easily tops out as the worst villain in Star Wars.
Any time a dark-sided villain appears he is menacing, powerful, and skilled. Kylo Ren was none of these things, and when he took off the mask it completely ruined everything.
All I wanted from this movie were some cool lightsaber battles, and I got one scene where this guy gets his ass handed to him by some random black guy and a little girl who had never held a lightsaber before that day. This guy was supposed to be the apprentice of the head honcho of the empire yet he could barely handle some untrained losers.
This does open up the question as to how they are going to handle the villain(s) role in the future movies. Kylo Ren will have to get incredibly more powerful overnight somehow, or they will have to introduce a whole new character out of nowhere. Meanwhile the 'good' guys have people who never fought in their lives and are seemingly the most powerful in the galaxy already.
>>64023926
Stop making this fucking thread
>>64023926
He's obviously not the main villain. He probably turns good in the next movie and then gets killed by Supereme Vader Snork
Lightsaber fight, sis. Me and you!
>>64023943
>>64023926
That is amazing. Is this guy really a holywood star? Did he suck a lot of cocks? Or is ther actually hope for ugly people?
Atleast he is not a fucking MANLET
>>64023926
>missed the point of a character:the thread
>>64023999
I assume you mean Darth Icky
>>64023926
>Is he the worst villain ever?
No. You're just dumb as shit.
No matter how they do figure out the villains in the future it will turn out badly.
They will have to bring out another random villain that wasn't on anyone's radar. That doesn't fit well with the overall plot of the 7th movie though because he is Snoke's direct apprentice and was the apprentice of Luke before him. Two of the most powerful people in the Star Wars universe and this guy still sucks ass? How is that even possible?
>>64023926
He only seems bad because the heroine is overpowered.
If Kylo could use the force to so easily figure out/sense where his father was why couldn't he do it when he was trying to find Rey throughout the film? You would think such a presence as Rey would stand out on anyone who is force-sensitive yet he could barely ever find her except for in that forest.
>>64023926
http://www.cinemablend.com/new/J-J-Abrams-Clears-Up-Huge-Misconception-About-Star-Wars-Villain-Kylo-Ren-79057.html
>>64023926
>Kylo worst villain
you stupid man-animal.
>mfuckingw this downey was very nearly cast as Nightwing in the DC cinematic universe and might still be in the running
>>64023926
I think he would have been a better villian if they'd left his mask on until the han solo death scene. It'd have a lot more emotional impact then as well when han died if he did.
>>64024193
How was this ever a misconception? When did I ever refer to Kylo as Sith? It's never even mentioned in the movie. He is clearly the villain/antagonist in the movie, however, and a shitty one at that.
>>64024043
>implying you need to be handsome and not just jewish
There was never any way they would top Vader, so they took the character in a completely different direction - and it really works. The movie and character Kylo Ren aren't made for you, someone in their late 20s, 30s, or higher - he's made for kids just getting into Star Wars who want to have a dark side character to empathize with.
>Freezes a fucking plasma shot
>H-h is not p-powerful guys h-he is being t-trained b-by SNOKE
>>64024337
He's got more depth than most of the villains in the prequels and Vader in ANH.
You just wanted faggy video game light saber fights
>>64024474
>depth
Edgy teenager with sperg-out moments. He is basically on par with Anakin, which is a much more fleshed out character even in the context of a single film.
>You just wanted faggy video game light saber fights
Not really, I merely wanted more than a single under-whelming scene which many people also agree is frankly bad.
Star Wars are without a doubt action movies which revolve entirely around Jedis/the force/lightsabers. Saying you wanted more than a single shitty scene is not the same as "faggy video game light saber fights"
Star Wars fans really got the movies they deserve with the prequels huh
>>64023926
JJ makes movies for his SON, and the moral behind this character is behind every scary mask bully is a little boy with daddy issues...
HASHTAG
>>64024323
You're objectively wrong
Kylo took his mask off at the exact point in the movie where he becomes more emotionally vulnerable after learning rey can both use the force and has bonded with his father more than he ever did. It's well executed symbolism, you're just dense
He's like Zant. a sniveling, whiny brat who while having some raw strength, has never faced anyone who posed him an actual challenge and just ends up getting angry and buttflustered when someone with actual ability cucks him good.
Also,
>Cool-looking new antagonist
>Takes off the mask
>Welp, there goes the hype
sebulba>vader>kylo>sheev>dooku>bobba>greivous>jabba>maul>jango
>>64023926
>>64023926
>mfw Vader using his Mandalorian crush gauntlet to stop Hans bullets isnt canon anymore because Keklo
>>64024696
Those are objectively terrible rankings.
A stupid alien who can race is better than a fucking badass force-wielding lightsaber-flinging jedi? Get out nigga
>>64024078
>>64024093
Just because his characterization wasn't as basic as Vader doesn't mean he is a good character. He is such a fuckup it makes it more hilarious than scary or worrisome when he shows up.
>>64024472
Vader blocked multiple shots without effort. He seems to do a lot of freezing people and objects, might just be something he is especially good at.
>>64024590
How could you even compare the two characters, when one character has an entire triology devoted to him versus someone new with no context outside of being Han Solo's son. Unless you really do mean a single films in which case only Attack of the Clone works as a comparison since it introduces Anakin as we know him, and he's a flat fucking note with only a desire for power.
As to your second point, the fighy at the end was good, considering the previous films completely overused the lightsaber battles the setting for the final one in TFA was an excellent setting, versus the cgi background.
> other people agree with me so I must be right
Other people advocate for crack cocaine that means fuck all
>>64024687
I think about this more and more, the EU really was probably the worst shit to happen to star wars
>>64024692
>dense
Never use that fucking word when pertaining to anything Star Wars
>>64023926
They better come up with a new villain in the sequels.
Unless the point of this trilogy is to make people laught at your bad guy.
He will be less spastic in the next movie.
>>64024189
>The Force Awakens
>The Force literally Awakened in her during BDSM torture scene
>He was able to find her thereafter
>>64023926
"Villain".
Good one.He's a Stromtrooper with a lightsaber and a spot of backstory at this point. The threat and motivation of a random foot soldier was clearer than his so far.
Terrible casting choice.
The entire movie was bad. Anyone thats says otherwise is a liar.
>>64023926
>he isn't menacing, powerful and skilled
i think that is the point of his character. driven by emotion and trying to match the skill of darth vader but not big enough to fit the shoes
>>64025509
anon you're not meant to use logic in TFA bashing threads
>>64024913
It is entirely valid to compare two dark side characters from the same franchise. If you honestly did not think it's fair to compare than you wouldn't have written further.
Anakin had more character development in any single film he was in than kylo. Film 1 he's an innocent child prodigy motivated by his love for his mother and supposed destiny. Films 2 and 3 he grows up, trains more, learns more, is motivated by additional love for padme, etc. In any single film he is a more developed and rounded character than kylo.
I think all these movies are terrible so I really feel no more need to respond to you.
>>64025509
Why is he trying to match the skill of vader? I really don't understand the vader obsession at all.
>>64023926
>He easily tops out as the worst villain in Star Wars.
Pleb confirmed.
>ass handed to him
>Finn was barely alive after he fought Kylo
>>64023926
darth maul literally has no personality or development at all
he's objectively worse
>>64023926
>worse than dank maul
>worse than count doo doo/darth t-rex
>worse than general greivous lung cancer
>>64025761
He is his grandson and vader is basically legendary. Is it that hard to grasp?
>>64025761
no one does - it hasn't been elaborated on yet.
>>64025734
You're fucking delusional
Kylo has plenty of character development
He becomes progressively less confident and becomes more emotionally unstable and vulnerable, the turning point being when he confronts rey, learns she has force powers, and learns she has met his father, sees him as a father figure and bonded with him in a way that kylo never did (note how this is the point where he takes off his mask, it's symbolism for how he becomes more emotionally vulnerable). On top of this he's feeling conflicted and not entirely committed to the dark side even though he wants to be. He kills his father because he thinks it will make him stronger in the dark side, but all it does is keep him emotionally unstable. On top of the physical wound that chewy gives him from a gun that kills stormtroopers in one shot, this makes him possible to be defeated by rey
>>64023926
If he didn't take off his mask he wouldn't be so bad. But he took it off... and he's just too ugly. Can't take him seriously. He's seriously so ugly you just laugh when you see him.
>>64025805
Then why not anakin?
>>64025509
That makes for a shit villain though.
Unless someone else is going to be the Darth Vader of this new trilogy.
>>64023926
More like best villain everfam
>>64023926
He's the third best villain, right after Vader and Sidious.
He actually has character, unlike Dooku, Maul, and Grevious.
Oh look everyone, a plebeian, whatever shall we do with his opinion?
>>64025878
You have shit standards for what defines a good villain
>>64025761
He's desperate to be strong, and some reason he believes that the kind of power he wants is only available in the Dark Side of the Force.
Snoke probably used granddad as an example of why that is true when he initially turned.
It's not rocket science.
Stop thinking of him as the main bad guy.
He's a red herring for plebs to latch onto as the "bad guy".
Kind of like how turboplebs think Darth Vader is the "main bad guy" of Star Wars, turboplebs think that Darth Edgelord is the "main bad guy". He's just the enforcer for the real bad guy, Big Guy Snoke.
>>64025893
>Grevious
>Bad
>>64025912
More like i have standards.
Star Wars is supposed to be a simple good vs evil story.
Having your main villain be a "complex, whiny, dipshit" doesn't fit. Unless you liked the prequels of course.
>>64025816
Let me say that it's hilarious how hard you must be watching this thread to have responded so quickly. Try not to sperg out too hard and break your freaking MacBook Air.
Your whole argument of character development revolves around his mental instability. So he went from unstable to slightly more unstable. That is not development. That is a slight change which resulted in no significant change in the character from the start to the end. Compare him in the beginning to in the end and he's the same. Not development.
Now it's easy to say driver is a better actor than Hayden, but that has little to do with character development as spelled out in the plot or writing.
>>64025973
>More like i have standards.
It's funny when plebs say this.
>>64025734
How exactly did Anakin develop in TPM? As a character, what was his arc. Fuck I was throwing you a bone by flat out ignoring it since he's such a non-character in that one.
And its only really fair to compare the two between one movie, so Attack of the Clone Anakin fits the comparison. And whats his development? Where does his character go in terms of growth and development? He falls in love with Padme and gets married. He's an unlikeable asshole in the beginning and in the end. Terrible. If he weren't destined to be Darth Vader you'd ask yourself why the fuck was he your main character?
Kylo at least has motivation, and conflict he works through, and as his arc develops he reveals himself more to the audience. By the end if the film he has solidified as a soldier of Snoke and devotes himself to the first order fully, with no hesitation.
But sure, take your ball and go home and watch your shit movies
>>64026004
Try and watch the movie before talking next time.
>>64025973
>Star Wars is supposed to be
No its not. Your definition of Star Wars is in itself bullshit, and even if it weren't, a continuation of Star Wars does not have to follow the same formula as the old Star Wars, and even if it did, that would be SHIT, just like your opinion
>>64023926
He was actually decent, until he removed his mask. It was just hard to take him seriously once he did. He looked like a 18 year old who has never seen a girls vagina. But other than his look, he did a solid job playing his character.
>>64026004
So you didn't watch the movie, okay.
>>64026055
>he can't respond.
Better luck next time kiddo.
>>64026004
He went from stable to unstable.
>Compare him in the beginning to in the end and he's the same. Not development.
Literally incorrect
At the start of the movie he's dark, menacing, and pulls shit like freezing laser shots in midair. By the end of the movie he's wounded and completely lost his composure as a result of all the mental turmoil he's undergone
You're absolutely fucking insane if you think prequel anakin is a better character than kylo
>>64025868
>>64025815
>>64025761
no one knows the story behind what happened between luke, vader and palpatine except for luke. so he sees his grandfather as a liberator from the corrupt republic backed by the warrior cult of jedis whilst seeing his parents and uncle luke as traitors. he was probably trained not because he is strong but for the imperials having the son of the enemy leader as a general is a very good leverage
i don't think he will be the main villain in the upcoming movies, he will probably be pushed into a redemption/separation arc by the protagonists
>>64026115
Not that guy but you are literally wrong. Its a simple exercise, I'll even spoon feed it to you. Compare Kylo in the scene between him and Poe in the beginning when theyre interrogating him, and his confrontation between him and rey near the end. Now ask yourself, how, in what obvious ways, has the character changed
>>64023926
>kylo ren isn't an emotionally unstable tryhard on purpose to make him more sympathetic to the audience and cushion the blow of him killing the best character in the franchise
Anon. I don't think you understand how emotional manipulation works. You're supposed to hold all of these gripes with his character and appreciate that thought went into his design.
>>64026119
You're implying he had ability to begin with. He never did. Stopping a laser was some cool eye candy for the audience but it was the only slightly impressive thing he did in the entire film. You never see his lightsaber skills until the end and he sucked ass, which implies that he always sucked ass. You're falsely correlating his mental instability with his skills.
>>64024091
No im talking about Big Tall Snork The Empire Man
>>64024072
spoken like a true lanky faggot. Ugly as fuck but at least he's tall guys!!!
He's a half made villain, more boy than man. Abrams said part of the idea behind this trilogy is going to be watching his growth as a villain along with Rey and Finn's growth as heroes.
Has great power with the force but is an emotional wreck and his decision to kill Han 1) solidified his villainy and 2) made him even more unstable.
Honestly this is the first star wars villain, besides I guess the last 15 minutes of Darth Vader, with actual dimensions and not just binary evil.
Removing the mask made me think of him as a little bitch but it did a great job of showing how BADLY he wants to be Vader and how far he is from ever being that.
Also, "barely handle untrained losers" is a misnomer. he was severely injured by a bowcaster that literally blew apart anyone else it hit, and he was extremely rattled by Rey's natural force ability and the scene with Han (which was brilliant).
Kylo Ren is a great part of a very good movie
>>64026271
he fucking reads minds using the force and violently throws someone into his hand to choke them
They clearly establish Kylo as having strong natural force abilities and a lack of control over his emotions, hence the temper tantrums where he destroys shit with his lightsaber and high officials trying to call him out on getting personal matters about finding luke in the way of what their real goal is
I guess everyone wanted him to be Darth Maul
>>64026152
Luke would tell him about the dark side though? Luke was training him idiot and you think he just leaves out every important detail?
>>64026356
anon stop
you're not meant to write a well reasoned argument that points out TFA did something right
>>64026356
>fuck you dad!
>great scene
That was one of the worst, cheesiest scenes I've ever seen.
>there are people that don't think Plagueis The Wise is Snoke
>there are people that believe Kylo is Sith
>there are people that just wanted lightsaber fights the whole time
>>64026464
> the "Love has blinded you?" scene in RoTS
> not the cheesiest scene
>Kylo is a dark and edgy teenager
>/tv/ are dark and edgy teenagers
>Kylo hates his parents due to teenage angst
>/tv/ hates their parents due teenage angst
>Kylo is a virgin
>/tv/ are virgins
>Kylo is a weak loser who talks hot shit then gets btfo by a girl who fucks a black stud
>/tv/ are weak losers who talk hot shit then get btfo by girls who fuck black studs
>Kylo obsessed with Darth Vader's mask
>/tv/ obsessed with Bane's mask
>>64026426
but maul had no character except for the badass design
So you just want a bunch of colorful flippy bullshit? Are you twelve?
>>64026528
I see.
So that's why /tv/ likes Kylo Ren and this new Star Wars movie.
Kylo is literally a metaphor for the Star Wars fanbase.
This is Hideaki Anno levels of trolling.
>>64026528
POTTERY
O
T
T
E
R
Y
>>64026528
>Kylo is weak meme
This is dank. Slamming down on a bowcaster wound and fighting with pure rage is hardly weak especially with his force powers. He is unstable which clouds his actions and his fighting ability.
>>64026735
More like he's extremely powerful, except when the plot requires him to be a whiny, weak pussy that loses to a girl with no Jedi training whatsoever.
And before you say muh bowcaster, how come he forgot he could paralyze people during the final battle?
Did the bowcaster gave him brain damage?
>>64026828
Rey is actually just like Anakin, a being of pure force willed into existence by Darth Plagueis aka Snoke. Anakin did fucking crazy shit without a thought. It's all part of the plan.
>>64026356
I kind of see where you're coming from, and you make a good argument.
But I can't really support what you're saying.
My main gripes with your argument are just these:
1) J.J. Abrams said a lot of things a lot of times to make his work seem like it's building to to something. I can't remember an instance where it was true.
2) Character stating that they're troubled =/= troubled character.
This movie, and J.J.'s work in general is too hectic and jumpy to have an idea of what character development is. It's got a tiny touch of the Hero's Journey in there with Finn, but that's the easiest most cookie cutter thing to put into a story. With Vader, the scenery spoke for him in Empire. There's a lot we can see about what he's like, simply by what surrounds him in that movie and what he does.
All we know about Kylo, is that he's confused an angry. That's not a character. Why he's confused, why he's angry? Having a bit of context on him would make him a character. So far, he's just the promise of a character.
You can tell me all you want that "it will be developed in the next movie", but that is no excuse, for not having development in this one. You can't just promise us that one of the movies will have what this movie already should have had.
A New Hope had sense enough to not pretend like Vader is a main character, and just used him as a personification of the Empire, and a hint to Luke's destiny. That's all Vader was in that movie.Even with that, we learned more about him in that film than we do about Kylo here.
Kylo on the other hand is an obvious narrative bait. It just does what J.J.'s been doing since Lost. Set up a character, tell us just enough about him that we're curious, and then make us wait so we may or may not get a pay off a few years down the road.
This does not deserve to be called a "great part" of anything.
>>64023926
>Is he the worst villain ever?
Yes.
>Any time a dark-sided villain appears he is menacing, powerful, and skilled. Kylo Ren was none of these things
Agreed. That type of character should at least have these foundational attributes in a villian:
1. Strength
2. Resolve
3. Imtimidation
4. Capability
He never demonstrated any of these throughout the entire film:
>Supposedly destroyed the New Jedi Order that Luke established single-handedly, yet, fights on a skill level that's on par with a former Stormtrooper and a scavenger from a dead planet; who has no training in the Force or Lightsaber Combat (who then meditates inbetween the fight).
>Shot by Chewbacca's Bowcaster; even though he through the Force can either deflect blaster shots or control them (like on Jakku).
>Interrogates Rey -- gets his mind delved into instead.
>An Imperial Officer had the balls to stand up and shame Kylo in front of his Master and show how incompetent he is as a Leader.
>Over-Emotional
>Physically Frail; which impacts on his image and presence in the film.Especially when he takes off the mask.
>>64023926
>All I wanted from this movie were some cool lightsaber battles
Fuck off and go watch the Phantom Menace you pleb.
>>64027313
Not that OP but good response. I'm not sure what to make of JJ's quote about it building to something. You could argue that knowing we're getting a trilogy versus ANH (which was planned as a stand alone film) means character building should have a different approach. I don't think you're giving the character enough credit, and I don't understand why applying what you do to Vader doesn't for Kylo, when they serve the same function, except here Kylo displays emtions, wants and needs outside of those of the first Order.
>>64023926
no
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd_8-NCN5CU
>>64027313
Ok man that's fair. Regardless of whether it worked or not I liked it so I guess i'm biased toward defending it.
Never seen JJs other work (No idea how i've avoided all of it at this point in life) so I'm unfamiliar with his tricks.
And you are right, VII is severely lacking in subtlety and goes for exposition over "show don't tell", but its 2015 and thats the world we live in. sucks but its star wars and needs to appeal to everyone.
I'll probably see it again with a less sober perspective and we'll see what happens, but first impressions I thought he was pretty good and certainly has next movie potential, maybe not episode V villain potential but something.
Agree to disagree. Oh, and you're a raging cock-mongering faggot (almost had a reasonable discourse on the internet without a personal attack. whew that was close)
>>64023926
They are just building up his character like they do for the good guys. He won't be as spastic in the next movie after Snoke finishes training him.
>>64027338
>A good villain is what I say a good villain is
hahaha
-injured by blaster fire; was having serious problems
-just fucked up rey so finn was charging him hard with adrenaline/rage after already having some saber practice; still got his ass kicked
-kylo now injured even more has to face rey who is now pissed off from finn getting fucked up
-she searches his mind and draws enough from it to start fighting back
-his training is not yet complete; probably rushed into his role like an ass hat
if he had not been injured he would've fucked them up
>>64028004
Rise Darth Ren
>>64028014
As opposed to you and every other faggot in this thread?
People are just giving their opinions m8
>>64024114
>Two of the most powerful people in the Star Wars universe and this guy still sucks ass? How is that even possible?
What if that's the point?
>>64027694
The problem, is that everything about Kylo lacks context. Without context, nothing he does has any real hold.
Here's what we learn about Vader in a New Hope (probably more, but this is just a short list)
>He betrayed the Jedi, which he was a part of, to help the Empire take over the Galaxy
>The Empire he serves, and helped put into place (so in effect he himself as well), is a tyrannical dictatorship lacking mercy and compassion
>He takes his service to the Empire seriously, going out personally to take care of the Rebels, even before it is known that they pose a real and present threat
>He takes pride in his heritage, regardless of his betrayal of the Jedi
>He obviously exists in a special class of his own, likely due to his own hand in the extermination of the Jedi, as he can freely choke the Imperial high command without as much as a slap on the wrist
>He's a known enforcer of the Empire, as evident by Leia's words on the Death Star
Here is what we know about Kylo:
>He abandoned his family and the Jedi Order, and joined the First Order instead, under Snoke
>Whether this was part of the rise of the First Order, or just because he was angry with them, or because Snoke told him, or whatever else? We don't know. With Vader at the same time, we knew that "he helped the Empire hunt down the Jedi", from which we know at least in part what Vader's reason for doing it was. With Kylo, no idea. He just did it.
>Kylo is confused regarding his call to the dark side. This could be an interesting point, but we have no idea why. Is it just that he misses his family? Does he question joining the darkside? Maybe he had no choice in the matter?
Just by this point, I could imagine 3 completely different version of Kylo Ren, that are equally valid based off of this information
>He's something of an underfoot figure in the First Order, bellow certain officers/generals.
>He has a tendency for rage
>He has an obsession with his grandfather
Cont in a moment
He's not the lamest villain in the entirety of Star Wars works ever produced, but he's probably the lamest one to display force powers.
There's still like two characters in no-longer-canon works who are even more ineffective.
>>64028159
Cont.
The problem is, with Darth Vader, it's very clear who he is. Why he's there, and what he represents.
Kylo is so vague in everything, he could be 4-5 different characters. Let me demonstrate:
1) Kylo is someone who during his training with Luke had a taste of the dark side, and chose it freely of his own will. He has such anger issues, simply because of whatever darkness took a hold of him then and there, and he truly is eager to complete his training.
2) Kylo found the dark side during his training, and it overtook him, leading to the destruction of the New Jedi Order. However, he regrets this, and simply follows the darkness because he doesn't believe redeption is possible.
3) Kylo was contacted by Snoke during his training, and it was under Snoke's instructions that he chose to turn to the dark side, rather than his own, and the reason he's trying to become "like his grand father" has little to do with his own personal decisions, and more with being told lies about the force.
The first version, is someone who yearns for power.
The second version is someone who is filled with regret.
The third version is someone who has no idea about what's going on.
You can mix and match these too, to a certain extent, but these are very different characters from the get go, and they can't co-exist within the same character.
What we have now, is different people having a very different idea about what he's like, based on how they interpret the clues.
Effectively, anyone who wants to like this movie, will interpret him as the most favourable character to their liking. As the character they want to see most. But there is a great chance, that's not actually the character who Kylo Ren is.
This is what I hate about this vagueness. It guarantees that people see what they want, because the story develop him to the point where he's actually A character, as opposed to just the setup for one.
With Vader, you could tell that no matter the past, he was now the Empire
>>64027915
Yeah I see your point, and I don't fault you for liking it.
For what it is, it's well done, I just don't think what it is has any place calling itself Star Wars.Felt the same way about Star Trek 2009.
The problem with this little bit here:
> but its 2015 and thats the world we live in. sucks but its star wars and needs to appeal to everyone.
Is the same as with stuff like Lord of the Rings adaptations, the Star Trek sequel, and some other similar things:
I get that they can't make it "like it's supposed to be made" because "it needs to appeal to the masses", but at that point... Why are they even making it? What is the point of doing something, if you decisively know you're not going to do it right, and it's not even for practice for when you ARE going to do it right?
The answer obviously is money, but that's just the single most depressing reason anyone could ever touch these franchises.
>>64028425
Exactly, we know nothing about kylo, just what we see in the movie is that he is an angry emo failure
How is that a good character? Even a good villain? He is like a cartoon character
>a villain is only compelling if they're competent
nigga that's bullshit
>>64028629
Name one that is a retard but still good
>>64024694
Difference is Zant died so quickly that his story didn't get to develop. With Kylo you're supposed to be dissapointed by him, but then realize that there's a whole lot going on with him. Good villains are likable. Everyone hates a great villain though.
>>64028711
Carl Showalter
>>64028773
Who?
>>64028711
Kylo
>>64028159
>>64028425
Good write up. Essentially (and correct me if I'm wrong) the thing that ANH Vader has over Kylo is that his simplicity serves the film better than the attempt at depth with Kylo, which you find to be vague and frustrating.
Thats certainly a valid opinion, looking at the movie, I don't think I find him to as vague as you did. He never outright states why he defected to Snoke, but considering his conversations with Snoke, and his horror and anger at Rey besting him over jedi technique implies a thirst for power, and its shown that his admiration for Vader extends to the Empire, "I'll finish what you started" and so on.
So what we have is Vader, sort of a functionary role (a physical representation of the dark side/empire) with not a whole lot of depth. He left the Jedi behind but it doesnt really matter why, all we as an audience want is for Luke to beat him, which he does in the end during the Death Star destruction. Movie over, and it was only after the massive success was a sequel approved and Vader expanded, where in Empire we are left with a bunch of questions (why did he abandon his children? for one) much like the ones you're asking about Kylo now.
Except they now know Kylo is going to be developed over a course of three movies, so they can develop their character of the course of three movies ibstead of the one, while giving out details of the character as the films go along, not unlike LoTR or the Prequel trilogy.
>>64028816
Different Anon, but you need to watch more Buscemi.
Or at the very least Fargo.Although I could get why you forgot the name.
He is doomed. They buried his character too deep that they will never get him to a respectable level again. All i see is a whiny daddy issue guy now and forever. Ugh. Terrible villain.
>>64028875
Oh a comedy villain, right
Are you actually implying kylo ren is a joke? Cos that becorrect
>>64028934
Fargo is a comedy now. /tv/ really has turned into the plebbist fucking board
>>64028425
>>64028877
They can coexist with the same character, though. Vader harbored doubts throughout the years, and buried those doubts with hatred and ignorance. Kylo is still young so he is more prone to questioning things. He wants power but is unsure how to keep it. He is filled with regret and is unsure how to get rid of it. He is going off what little he knows about the Force and is shackled to the authority of others who say they know more than him.
In essence, Kylo is a developing character. Thats not a bad thing. Its just that in Star Wars, there has been a strong tradition of fully developed villains whose development is feature-complete on first appearance. You can say you dislike this change in narrative, but its not entirely negative.
>>64028934
>blatant red herring
kek
>>64027338
>I don't like this villain!
Good. You shouldn't. You're supposed to hate him, and it will be all the more satisfying when Chewbacca rips his fucking arms off.
>>64029060
>In essence, Kylo is a developing character. Thats not a bad thing. Its just that in Star Wars, there has been a strong tradition of fully developed villains whose development is feature-complete on first appearance.
I would say there was more of an example of villains in star wars to be one note functionary characters than anything with depth (with Vader, Kylo and Palpatine being exceptions.
But regardless I agree with your post.
>>64023926
>giant ears
>odd shaped head
>shitty thin mustache
Definitely a beta. Motherfucker should've kept the mask on.
>>64029040
>fargo isnt a comedy
Do you even coen brothers
>>64028877
>Thats certainly a valid opinion, looking at the movie, I don't think I find him to as vague as you did. He never outright states why he defected to Snoke, but considering his conversations with Snoke, and his horror and anger at Rey besting him over jedi technique implies a thirst for power, and its shown that his admiration for Vader extends to the Empire, "I'll finish what you started" and so on.
Kind of proving my point there.
That is one interpretation.
But where do you take the idea that what Vader started is the Empire? Really, what did the Empire begin? We don't know what it is, if it's even something. Maybe it is some dark side mystery. Maybe it's nothing at all, and he was just fed lies and misinformation by Snoke. Again, we have no idea what he wants to finish, so we don't know who he is.
You can lock onto your idea, and find that satisfying. This is the genius of Abrams' vagueness. He gives you just enough so that you make up your own story, and then he doesn't need to do anything anymore, because you've entertained yourself.
The reason we don't care why Vader left the Jedi, is because it doesn't really affect who he is anymore. Everything else about him zeroes in on his current personality. Who he now is.
He has become the personification of the Empire. He now is the iron hand the keeps the Galaxy in check. Maybe he doesn't have much going on for him, in terms of mystery, or an arc at this point, but what is going on for him, is a clear idea of what he wants to do.
With Kylo, we just see what he's doing, but we don't know why. Hell, it seems like he doesn't know why.
We don't know his goal. We don't know his motivation.
Those two things are essential to have a villain, or character in general.
>>64029060
They might work together, as in mixing all the elements together, but they don't work together in the sense that he can be any one of those things and not the others, and be as such a completely different character.
He's, anyone and no one
>>64023926
>All I wanted from this movie were some cool lightsaber battles...
Worst kind of star wars fan if you ask me.
>>64029127
>implying I'm gonna watch the next expensive fanfiction JJ makes.
>>64023926
>Le edgy teens who likes cool, edgy, shallow villains
Official Star Wars villains ranking
Sheev > Vader > Kylo >>>>>>>>> Dooku > Grievous = Maul
>>64029099
>>64029040
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fargo_(film)
>neo noir black comedy crime thriller
No anon, you are the pleb
>>64029401
this vagueness thing your saying really does explain how varied the reaction to kylo is. I see him a weak pathetic loser, with and ugly mug who ruins a movie and others see this "interesting" character.
>>64029393
Eh, I guess youre right. I felt like he was implying something about Fargo but I'm high af so forget me
>>64029401
Eh, I think you're complicating Kylo more than necessary, and I say this knowing full well I said he was much more complicated than Vader was in ANH, which is true. That works perfectly for that film I should add, since it really is about Luke and his journey than that of the other characters.
Kylo you can boil down to a character that is turn between the light side and the dark, and the actions taken in the film solidify exactly where he lands by the end of the movie. Because the reasons why he betrayed Luke and turned to the dark side don't really matter (though through his characterization you can make certaon assumptions). Ultimately he goes through his own journey of discovery in the film, and makes a decision and changes for it by the end.
>>64029551
Whiney angry characters can be interesting too anon
>>64030059
>storytelling doesnt matter, hes just conflicted cos we told you so, ok!
>>64030236
The first thing viewers see him do is war crimes shit. Then hes going on later about how the light is calling him and telling him to stop that bullshit. He knows the things he does are terrible, and the viewer learns that he does terrible things because he believes those acts will make him a stronger person. But his crisis is he has no real basis for it. Will this bullshit make him stronger? He can stop at any time, but should he? At what point is the point of no return? He is a journeyman who wants to find his way into the heart of darkness, stubbornly stumbling towards the terrible truth.
>>64030236
You want to actually use words to explain why you're so fucking stupid you had a hard time undertsanding the villian to a childrens movie?
>>64025960
Grevious is the best
>>64030059
>Whiney angry characters can be interesting too anon
Sure, if you're an angsty teenager. Anyone who was around to see ANH when it was in theaters in '77 just looks at Darth Edgelord and thinks "stupid loser kid".
Star Wars was a Western; things are supposed to black and white. Kylo Ren sticks out like a sore thumb.
>>64031240
Were you one of those people or are you simply talking out of your gaping asshole?
Luke was the whiniest motherfucker in ANH, and dont get me started on Anakin "I SLAUGHTERED THEM LIKE ANIMALS" Skywalker.
>>64026528
But why does he wear the mask?
>>64023926
Why didn't his eyes turn yellow at least once after killing Han? I mean, I would be pissed if my face got fucked up but he was just staring at Rey with a weird expression
Imagine the presence this guy would've had as kylo ren
>>64031321
What? You think adults don't know about 4chan, kid? It's not exactly a secret.
>Luke changed from whiny farm boy to hotshot, Force-wielding pilot who took down the Empire's greatest weapon. Classic hero's journey.
>Kylo? Whiny emo loser who changes to, uh, ... a whiny emo loser who gets beat up by a girl and kills his dad?
You think anybody old enough to have kids is going to look at Kylo and see any kind of serious character? Get real
(And forget Anakin; I think we'd agree I-III were crap.)
>>64031321
They werent villains though
>>64031753
I'm imagining a presence that wouldn't fit the character
>>64030704
Are you implying it doesnt have to be good because its star wars
>>64023926
>Is he the worst villain ever?
Hyperbolic as fuck.
He was the best Star wars villain to date, the problem was that he was up against Mary Fucking Sue
>>64030504
The lack of context is exactly what makes him an edgelord
It is exactly the contrast of his herioc lineage that makes him look stupid. Why does he want to be evil?
>>64032155
That's great because the character doesn't fit Star Wars.
>>64023926
>>64023926
>Don't do something as every other movie do
>complaining it's not the same shit all over
You people are sick.
>>64032399
>He was the best Star wars villain to date
top kek
>>64024694
My first thought was WELP it's Snape!
>>64024383
>implying Adam Driver is jewish
>>64026528
>>64023926
>Kylo Ren will have to get incredibly more powerful overnight somehow,
you mean like luke did between ESB and ROTJ?
>>64032623
>first star wars villain that isnt either silent and foreboding or OP and generic badass
Anime fan detected
>>64023926
The only ones who think Kylo Ren is a bad villain are reddit cucks who are trying to shift the attention of how Rey and Dindu were both underwhelming.
Once again the white man takes his place as the best out of the new characters.
GUARDS!
U
A
R
D
S
>>64032155
He would have a sexual presence which would actually make sense with him being solo's son and all.
>>64023926
>All I wanted from this movie were some cool lightsaber battles
Underage detected.
>>64032093
Where did I say anything about adults using 4chan, I was challenging your specific statement. So unless you're well into your 30's I'm probably older than you.
Regardless, you're even fucking up Ren's character. He starts off an intimidating force with a slight temper to an emotional mess and immature brat. Its basically Luke but barkwards in terms of emotional growth.
>>64032188
I'm implying that his statement has fuck all to do with mine and asked him to clarify.
>>64032533
ebin
>>64028711
Kylo Ren
>>64023926
t. fan of idiotic, 0 personality bad ass villlains like darth maul
