Doesn't Mary Sue really mean the storyteller inserted her/himself into the film?
>You imbeciles can't even Mary Sue.
>>64012410
A Mary Sue is a character who is always right. Doesn't even require it to be a perfect and all-powerful character, but it helps.
>>64012410
>hurr durr I can't into tvtropes
The definition may differ from person to person, but in short:
>In other words, the term "Mary Sue" is generally slapped on a character who is important in the story, possesses unusual physical traits, and has an irrelevantly over-skilled or over-idealized nature.
>>64012410
>implying JJ doesn't aspire to be a strong independent white womyn
>>64012410
The storyteller inserting themselves into a story is a self-insert, shockingly enough. Mary Sue's are a whole different ball park. A Mary Sue is someone who usually has special powers no one else has, has no real damaging character flaws, is the best at whatever they need to be the best at, and everyone just loves them no matter what they do. I haven't seen episode 7 but fuck, I'm tired of people taking established phrases and equating the definition to "person/thing i dont' like"
>>64013054
OP BTFO
>>64012410
Originally yes. But its now a 4chan buzzword to mean any charecter I dont like.
Ironically, Mel the Mary Gibson is the worst offender.
>>64012410
Mary Sue means being perfect in everything while being the absolute centre of the universe.
Also means that sometimes character has hilariously badly flaws to make her more human, but it fails because it is transparent that those flaws are superficial to her "perfectness" .
It's just an insult used by betas that can't ever dream of achieving great things.
The fact that it's a woman doing it just make them reee harder
>>64012893
But that is fucking wrong. I hope you made that up yourself and didn't get it from that cesspool of a site you mentioned.
Anyway, Mary Sues/Gary Sues are just as often "my ideal boyfriend/girlfriend" as self inserts. Note that Rey is written EXACTLY LIKE a fan fiction MC thrown into an existing universe, in every considerable way. That's literally what she is.
OP is a traitor. Posting anti-traitor pics.
>>64013429
>But that is fucking wrong
explain how
>>64013306
ive seen every movie he's directed. the self inserts are cringy.
But chanlords like you eat it up. BASED!
Spare me.
>>64012410
>Doesn't Mary Sue really mean the storyteller inserted her/himself into the film?
no. moreover, you're using semantics to dodge the actual point, which is that the characterization is shit.
>>64013521
Selfinsert=/=mary sue
>>64012410
Disney created Rey as a self insert for women who see the movie.
>every body likes her even through they just met her
>all the men find her attractive and give her attention
>she is the best at everything, from saber fighting to piloting to using the force with no explanation
>corny feminist likes like "quit trying to hold my hand!"
It's the ultimate mary sue
>Luke
>Lucas
I just noticed that Luke Skywalker was a Mary Sue....oh god everything I believe is a LIE!
>>64013254
Best part about all these morons trying to defend a mary sue are autistic posters who don't understand the difference between a mary sue and a protagonist.
>>64013446
NO FAT CHICKS
>>64013641
Luke actually fucking sucked throughout episode 4 and 5, only becoming semi-competent in 6
>>64012410
She should be holding a BBC like a good slut
>>64013643
It's quite autistic to formuaicly use a buzzword for anything you don't like
>>64013699
>sucked
>blew up a death star
>>64012536
>>64012893
So Indiana Jones?
>>64013811
Maybe. I've nerver seen the movie. Ask an Indianafag that
>>64013744
>Rey is a OP mary sue
>hurr durr you just dont like her cuz shes a woman
>>64013573
well memed my friend!
Here is some free advice. learn to articulate your opinions beyond >implying and meme speak. That's assuming you have an original opinion at all...which may be being generous.
>>64013863
I'd recommend them, pretty great movies.
>>64012410
even if you were right she still looks and speaks like a faggot.
As far as I'm concern, Rey is a self-insert for the female audience that Disney is pandering to.
>>64013911
>dat butthurt
See? I'm still memeing and you can't stop me!
>>64014045
well played. much originality.
enjoy your new internet friends at www.4chan.org!
>>64013641
Luke was much more believable.
Ep IV
>carried by Han
>carried by Ben
>carried by R2D2
>carried by ghost Ben at the end
>good mechanic and semi decent pilot which was established from the start
Ep V
>fucked up training
>impatient
>not good with the force
>Vader owned him like a child
>lost his hand
>mocked by Yoda
Ep VI
>almost lost to the dark side
>>64014077
Sure pal i will. Pls teach me how to upvote you
>>64012410
originally it was fan fiction where they put in a self insert thats magically so good the entire world revolves around their insert character. as original works got shittier and shittier you see the same effect of a character that can do no wrong. now mary sues are poorly written characters with hand waved characterizations with the only justification is the character is the character. no back story, no character arc, no character actualization, no character definition just an amorphous shape to shove things into. a get out of jail free card from actually writing.
>>64013798
He needed Obi-Wan to guide him and he needed Han to swoop in to save his ass from Vader. If it was Rey in that position she would just instinctively known to use the force, would have destroyed vader and the two other tie fighters and would have blown up the death star without single handily without any help from other rebels because "She don't need no man". Search your feelings you know this to be true.
But Rey IS a self-insert, OP. JJ isn't a girl but he's a feminist. Rey is a idealized version of the strong, independent female archetype. It's a Mary Sue because it has no flaws.
>>64014124
Another original comment! dude youre on a roll!
PS. whats an upvote?
>>64013494
What you described would fit almost any protagonist in anything ever.
Being "overpowered" is nothing to do with it. It's about succeeding at everything, being loved by everyone, and generally having one quirky fault, but still being clearly a self insert/ideal girlfriend/boyfriend. It's a character that either literally is a self insert in fan fiction, or is WRITTEN like one.
>>64013811
Indiana Jones was likable, Rey has no personality
>>64013811
Ah, so you've never actually seen an Indiana Jones film, interesting.
>>64014151
You were doing well there with your initial definition and then you spiralled over into your own weird headcanon shit that literally no-one else but you thinks is the definition.
>>64014552
I asked a question. You answered without an explanation. Stop being such a faggot and explain your position.
>>64014522
So a mary sue isn't a mary sue if the audience likes them?
>>64014552
Indy's backstory was only told in Crusade. It was the opening of the movie. His dad (connery) was a mary sue too.
Go to bed Gen Z.
>>64014892
Indy has always been scared of snakes and Indy is always getting into trouble - getting captured, falling into traps, etc.
You're reaching.
>Rey is shown to actually have some character flaws in the next 2 movies.
>Pissed off about Luke abandoning her.
>Battle between her and kylo with Snooke looking on.
>Executes Kylo
>Joins the darkside.
Too edgy?
>>64015036
cont.
Finn and poe team up to fight her in episode 9 part 2.
>>64015036
When does she save the galaxy though?
>>64014951
neither of those are character flaws you retard
>>64013588
Try harder
>>64014951
yet he always had that special lucasfilm magic that allowed him to use his fear or snakes as a strength.
but Rey is a self-insert
>Instantly liked or even loved (finn) by everyone she meets. Especially all the plot important characters.
>The force calls her to Luke's lightsaber because... reasons.
>Is made the captain of the Millennium Falcon as soon as Han dies
>Is sent to find Luke presumably because the force called her to Luke's lightsaber, again for some reason that isn't made clear.
>>64013588
>Lived in the ghetto her whole life, straight outta Jakku. That explains her ability to fight and her street smarts.
>knows mechanics because she literally scavenges mechanical parts from fallen ships to eat.
>Knows how to pilot because driving is the same thing as flying in the star wars world.
Some of her powers are unexplained, but as a charecter she holds up as authentic.
Poe got even less backstory, but apparently he is an expert pilot and desert survivalist.
>>64014588
1 no backstory to define their abilities
2 no change in character because they are just so awesome all the time and can do just about anything
3 no character story
4 no actualization learn anything that changes them
5 no definitions that define their limits
ie rey
1 can use force for no given reason
2 can fix anything, can pilot for some reason, can use a lightsaber well the first time against light saber user, shoot well after getting a blaster for the first time, etc
3 no character arc at all. - comedy? where was her high point? - drama? where was her low point?
4 didnt learn anything that made her a better or worse person
5 name one thing that she cant do that defines her
>>64016018
>correction swap high and low
>>64016018
5: She can't be a well written character
>>64015456
So JJ Abrams wants to be a woman that is going to get blacked?
>>64013868
>I'm an autist that is threatened by success, especially when its a woman
You're purely jealous. Plain and simple
>>64016165touche
>>64016224
She friendzoned the fuck out of Finn. Thus, JewJew shows his contempt for blacks and the self-insert still works
>>64016224
Kathleen Kennedy
If you want to see a self-insert. Watch Chef.
Self-indulgent garbage that is such a blatant allegory for Favreau's own career
>>64016256
Jealous of whom?
I like how there are STILL people trying to defend Rey as a Mary Sue, even though they don't have a single good argument other than "b-but she was trained as a jedi as a toddler!"
That means fuck all. Yes, that's an explanation, but that doesn't help her case. If she was actually trained before Jakku and had her mind wiped that meant she mastered all of the skills we see her do in the movie (such as telekinesis, wielding a lightsaber with proficiency, probing minds, and mindtricking) at an age where most children don't know the difference between their left and right hand. How is that not a Mary Sue?
Even Revan wasn't that broken, because he spent his entire life training as a Jedi before becoming a Sith. When he had his mind wiped he was an adult who had a shitton of training and experience under his belt. He didn't learn all that shit at the age of 4.
>>64013811
Indiana gets his ass kicked left and right what the fuck are you talking about
>>64016314
Chef was a masterpiece you shut your dirty mouth.
>>64012893
>TV Tropes
into the trash you go
How is Luke not a Mary Sue in New Hope?
>>64017028
>Luke
>constantly getting his ass saved or instructed by people like Han and Obi Wan
>only real talent as introduced is pilotting
>shown training to use the Force to guide him in lieu of senses/other aids
>guided by the Force to make the Death Star shot
This "b-but Luke was a Mary Sue too" meme needs to die
>>64016619
Are you stupid?
>>64012410
whose to say they didn't?
>>64017028
>>64013811
I swear to God, have these JJ apologists actually seen any of the movies they keep trying to compare TFA to?
The very beginning of Raiders involves Indiana Jones getting robbed of the idol and barely escaping with his life. The end of Raiders involves Jones getting captured and only surviving because the Nazis kill themselves (and he accepts the supernatural elements of the Ark that he spent the rest of the movie dismissing).
I find really hard to like her when everyone is praising her as the most feminism character ever and all that dumb shit when she practically does everything by herself. She isn't strong, she is just another fucking midichlorian overdose spacejesus who beats everything and everyone and people are supposed to pray to her every fucking second and hope she forgives their sin of merely existing in her presence.
Finn was hilarious, even if he bordered on Jar Jar sometimes. Poe was not given that much of screentime but was nice to have some 'normal' person. Kylo seemed kind of hard to grasp his motivations and whatnot, but I assumed it's going to be expanded in VIII.
I'm not even sure what Luke will teach her if she managed to mind trick and beat a wounded sith who already went on a fucking bloodbath and can stop lasers and people perfectly.Here's hoping it's not "YOU MUST NOT USE YOUR EMOTIONS, THEY DRAW YOU TO THE DARK SIDE!" and she replies with "BUT THE POWER OF LOVE FIX EVERYTHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING" and beat the fuck out of Snoke and Co. while raising her fist and shouting "FREEDOM TO THE OPPRESSED BY THE WHITE FIRST ORDER™!"
>>64017310
If they had made her as incompetent and real as Luke they would have been attacked by SJW's for oppresing womyn.
>>64017028
Luke didn't mind trick his way in to the prison.
