Anyone else annoyed that there was nothing new introduced in TFA?
One of the coolest things about the original trilogy is that each movie had cool new locations and creatures and didn't really retread on them.
Star Wars had Tatooine, Jawas and Sand People (and technically the whole universe).
The Empire Strikes Back had Hoth, Wampas, Dagobah and Cloud City.
Return of the Jedi had Jabba the Hutt, the Rancor, the Sarlacc, Endor and Ewoks
What was new in TFA? We got another sand planet that really had nothing on it, we had a new forest planet that really had nothing on it and we had a new ice planet that really had nothing on it. Everything was a retread and I can't think of a single memorable creature or location from the movie.
Even the action stuff wasn't as memorable. Empire introduced the AT-ATs and Jedi introduced the speeder bikes which led to new and immediately iconic action sequences. What did The Force Awakens have besides TIE fighters and X-Wings going pew pew?
Basically, where was the spirit? Where was the inspiration? What part of this movie will be unique to it and bring me back to it over and over again like the first three?
I think it's weird that they're in another part of the galaxy that has very similar fucking planets to the ones we know, NotTatoonie, NotEndor, NotHoth, and we saw NotCoruscant get destroyed with the Starkiller weapon
You realize it mainly a rehash thrown together to get the oldfags in the theater right?
Why do you think they brought back grandpa solo?
There was dozens of new cool looking puppet aliens in Maz's caste though.
>>63996507
Yeah but thats not really what I'm talking about. Theres a difference between a mosiac of neato designs (which were also seen in the Mos Eisley cantina and Jabba's Palace) and more individual and fully realized elements.
>>63996507
You mean not-Mos Eisley?
>>63996255
Theres so little stuff at all in the new movie that Disney had to create toys from concepts never used just to put stuff on the shelf. Pic related plus a potentially interesting character in constable zuvio. Its god damn depressing after all the neat tech and aliens every previous movie brought us.
Original ideas are not JJ's forte.
>>63996255
glib facsimile
>>63997083
although I guess its more /lit/ related at this point it's still star wars, I just got finished reading high noon and Zuvio is a boss, I hope we get to see more of him though I'm almost certain we wont. Maybe in some kind of trip back to Jakku to discover Reys origins? One can hope.
>>63997220
He actually exists in something? Here I was thinking he just got cut from the film at the last moment. I'll have to look into that.
>>63996255
This nails why TFA failed for me. My problem with the movie is that it did practically nothing to expand the Star Wars universe. Even the prequels, for all their problems, created new backstory and history that added depth to the world. TFA added nothing new. Sure, there's The First Order and a passing mention to The New Republic, but The Order is obviously just the remnants of the Empire. I understand that Disney wanted a safe start to their new juggernaut franchise, but unless the next films expand on the Star Wars Universe post-Yavin 4, the series is going to stagnate.
>>63996255
>What did The Force Awakens have besides TIE fighters and X-Wings going pew pew?
Traitorstick.
Not much but it's something.
We had some new locations, but I agree with that they weren't very impressive. Prequels at least had nice settings.
Like everyone has said it was a blatant rip off of A New Hope. Complete with a droid with a hologram inside him needing to find his master on a desert planet, a crash landing on said desert planet, a powerful force user finding the droid and her destiny as a Jedi. She even used the same lightsaber as Luke did in A New Hope lol. Desert dweller finds Han Solo, Chewbacca and the Millenium Falcon and gets captured by the Empire. Han Solo and his young male hero sidekick save the captured lady and then the old man mentor is killed by the dark lord while everyone watches in horror. Complete with stormtrooper shootout at the end.
Then X-Wings destroy the big spherical planet-destroying superweapon that happens to have a trench around it's equator. Princess Leia meets the hereos after they destroy the Death Star/Planet.
They even rip off of a little bit of Empire Strikes Back when the young, untrained-but-powerful force user from the desert planet tracks down a reclusive Jedi Master that is in a self-imposed exile in a remote area. And a short old, alien that knows the secrets to the universe. Just this on is orange and a female, rather than green.
Bravo JJ.
>>63997328
I really feel like they couldn't decide if they wanted to make a new story about the trio or if they wanted to make something new, so they split the difference and we got a worse movie for it.
A movie taking place long after Jedi without the trio focusing on these new characters would have been a blast. Instead we got a movie with cool new characters that jump through a lot of hoops to get hooked up with Han Solo, who comes back after 32 years just so he can die a punk death. The fact that we never get to see Han, Leia and Luke reunited just sucks, and destroying the happy ending of Return of the Jedi rapes my childhood in a way the prequels didn't.
>>63997368
The prequels basically had three new locations and even though they were in shitty movies they're at least memorable. They are Coruscant (city planet), Kamino (rainy planet) and Mustafar (lava planet). I felt like with the prequels the concept artists were at least having fun with what they were doing.
>>63997472
Naboo
Geonosis
Utupau
All the other planets shown during Order 66
>>63997328
But the prequels stopped with good new characters after Phantom Menace.
I miss the Tusken Raiders, but the chompy robo-jawa substitute was creepy and cool. I wish there was more of that kind of stuff but the movie jumps past the aliens too quickly.
>>63997472
Naboo was pretty unique and fleshed out as well, with Theed and the underwater city. Even if it was a green world it was far from yavin or endor.
>>63997220
blu-ray will have a non-cashgrab cut maybe?
who the fuck am I kidding! as if JJ gives a shit. disney tells him the movie needs to be 2:15 and he dutifully goes out and tells the press that the cut stuff "didn't work"
>Everything was a retread and I can't think of a single memorable creature
BB-8.
Anyone have a gif/webm of bb-8 giving a thumbs up?
prequels had more OC than the OT
I think they wanted to play it safe after the prequels. Hopefully that was just the plan for the first film though and they get creative in the future
>>63997472
>>63997504
This movie is a waking nightmare.
If you told me three years ago that the new Star Wars will make me appreciate the Prequels I would have laughed in your face.
>>63997584
He was a unique design, but a direct R2D2 replacement without the charming protocol droid companion. Lets not kid ourselves.
>>63997620
Whats that? You didn't like the fact that Sheev had more success and happiness in the SW timeline than any OT characters post RotJ?
>>63997628
He was much better scripted than R2.
With R2D2, you kinda get what he is trying to say, but with BB-8 its almost as if you competely understand what he is saying.
Calling BB-8 just another R2D2 is sad man. So much more personality.
>>63997472
you're forgetting naboo, geonosis and utapau
>>63997620
You realize that you are the movie goer equivalent of a scat fetishist, right?
Not only do you like shit, but your views are so contrarian that you are in the sub 1%.
>>63997328
It doesn't help that virtually everything that appeared originated in the EU in some form prior.
>>63997628
This. R2D2 was only ever a straight man to C3PO, which is why he didn't need to have any actual lines.
But JJ seems to have wanted it to feel like BB-8 was an actual cast member, because the movie keeps cutting away to give BB-8 reaction shots. When you remember that people in the OT treated droids like appliances it's really weird.
>>63997682
Youve lost it m8
>>63997707
Bro, the EU pretty much covers everything that could have happened.
Good shit like thrawn, and absolutely terrible fan fic tier shit.
It was good disney took an axe to it. If you have a problem with rey, then you have a huge problem with alot of the EU shit. Starkiller base too.
>>63997681
if Sheev had known he was going to get thrown down the vent shaft by Darth Vader he probably would have done all the same things, it worked out about as well as being a good person did for Luke. jesus.
>>63997448
I don't think theres anything wrong with following the outline of A New Hope, but the problem is JJ just made a shittier version of that movie.
A New Hope worked really well because of how simple the story was. The opening crawl perfectly established the setting, main conflict and the context of the inciting incident. Leia has Death Star plans so Vader captures her ship. She gives the plans to a droid and the droid escapes down to the planet. From there each plot development logically builds on the previous one, and it does so with a very simple elegance. The droids get captured by Jawas, the Jawas sell the droids to Luke, the droid goes looking for Obi-Wan, Luke finds the droid, Obi-Wan finds Luke, the Empire kills Luke's family (done by tracing the droids from the pod to the Jawas to the farm), Luke leaves with Obi-Wan to go to Alderaan.
The whole plot makes perfect sense. The biggest question mark is how Obi-Wan and Luke found the murdered Jawas, and thats not a big deal. And not only does the plot make sense, it tells the story in an efficient and organic way and builds momentum as we discover more of this world.
TFA follows the same basic plot of ANH but it also squeezes two protagonists into the movie. Instead of following the droid to Luke to Obi-Wan to Han Solo we follow Finn and Rey's journeys, and Finn's journey is especially convoluted and rushed. It just feels sloppy and shoehorned, and the random piles of action feel out of place. It's just not structured as well as ANH, and by being so similar to ANH those flaws stand out even more.
>>63997727
Bro, in the prequals R2D2 tried to do what BB-8 succeed in. There were plenty of reaction shots to R2 in them. It just failed spectacularly.
>>63996329
>NotHoth
I think it was more of a NotYavinIV
>>63997772
Better actually. Sheev had galactic control for some 25 years. Seems like everything got fucked up for the OT trio within 15ish, and they just wanted to live peacefully ever after.
>>63997782
I mean NotEndor*
>>63997776
tl;dr
>If you're going to make an ANH ripoff, do it. If you're going to create a new story with new characters don't stick to ANH's formula. A story introducing two leads of roughly equal weigh requires a different structure.
>>63996255
How do you want your alien tribes, senpai?
http://themindunleashed.org/2015/07/the-people-of-this-isolated-tribe-kill-anyone-approaching-their-island.html
>>63997776
>The opening crawl perfectly established the setting, main conflict and the context of the inciting incident.
and that's why TFA fails. the opening crawl is for a different fucking movie: a movie about finding Luke.
TFA is A New Hope awkwardly shoved into an original Star Wars "quest" story that Disney/JJ decided they couldn't be bothered to make work properly. and Han Solo's death is thrown in there just because of Harrison Ford wanting out, when the character didn't even need a full role in the movie.
>>63997868
>because of Harrison Ford wanting out,
>yfw he is in the next one.
>>63997732
He is right.
>>63997850
>tribe is "extremely violent"
>turns out they just shoot arrows at people and kill them for trespassing
literally the most sensible primitive tribe that exists.
>>63997962
This.
Natural selection favours aggression when dealing with outsiders.
Make it no worth their while to bother you, and they have survived with their way of life intact.
>>63997962
Wait till they get their hands on a few nukes, anon. Then you won't be shrugging!
How many uncontacted tribes are still left?
No one knows for sure. At a rough guess, there are probably more than 100 around the world, mostly in Amazonia and New Guinea, says Rebecca Spooner, of Survival International, a London-based organisation that advocates for the rights of indigenous peoples. Brazil’s count is likely to be the most accurate. The government there has identified 77 uncontacted tribes through aerial surveys, and by talking to more Westernised indigenous groups about their neighbours.
There are thought to be around 15 uncontacted tribes in Peru, a handful in other Amazonian countries, a few dozen in the Indonesian part of the island of New Guinea and two tribes in the Andaman Islands off the coast of India. There may also be some in Malaysia and central Africa.
https://youtu.be/AKDluQ39P4A
>>63997868
Yep. The opening crawl in ANH is fucking perfect:
>"It is a period of civil war. Rebel spaceships, striking from a hidden base, have won their first victory against the evil Galactic Empire."
The setting and conflict is explained. There is an evil Empire and they are in a civil war against a Rebellion.
>"During the battle, Rebel spies managed to steal secret plans to the Empire's ultimate weapon, the DEATH STAR, an armored space station with enough power to destroy an entire planet."
Explanation of what the battle we're about to witness is about. The Rebels have stolen something, the Empire wants it back.
>"Pursued by the Empire's sinister agents, Princess Leia races home aboard her starship, custodian of the stolen plans that can save her people and restore freedom to the galaxy..."
The circumstances of the battle we're about to see: Princess Leia has the McGuffin and is being chased by the Empire.
In three paragraphs we know everything we need to know about the plot going into this movie. We understand the conflict on a larger scale and we understand the details of the battle that opens the movie. That lets us jump right into the action. Dialog within that scene even answers questions like "Why does Princess Leia have the plans?" (they were beamed to her by spies) and "How does Vader know she has the plans?" (Vader intercepted the transmission).
The opening crawl to TFA not only has nothing to do with the plot, it doesn't even adequately explain the conflict. Most importantly, it fails to tell us what the First Order actually is (only why it was formed) and it fails to explain why the opposition to the First Order is a militia operating independently of the the Republic. Princess Leia was a Senator, why does she not have a role within the new Republic? And why isn't the Republic fighting the First Order with it's own army?
>>63997868
Han Solo shoulda been killed by Ren when he turned to the Dark Side. The movie shoulda been about finding Luke.
http://pastebin.com/2gepmwMU
>>63998043
it's tragic that these people are missing out on the new Star Wars movie thanks to their inferior and simplistic culture.
It ain't easy being a space worm.
Despite how shitty the prequels were, things like utapau inspired me so much. Genuinely creative locations that sparked some sense of wonder.
Did not feel that at all from TFA
>>63998043
>that advocates for the rights of indigenous peoples
Why they consider these people indigenous but not Europeans in Europe is beyond me.
Maybe because liberals see these tribes like a cute fuzzy tiger they need to protect from evil consumerism. While 'Civilised' man is pure evil who aren't as noble as these poor savages with no qualms with murdering outsiders.
>tfw if whites behaved as these tribes do they would be labelled Nazis
>tfw all the while liberals hold us to account on 'civilised' values while denigrating civilisation and not holding these tribes to account
>>63998044
note also that the title crawl LITERALLY TELLS US THE EMPIRE IS EVIL.
no Hitler bullshit or kidnapped orphans are required - all the Stormtroopers are assumed to be adults who have made a decision to join the military and therefore the morality of killing them is a non-issue. I mean just get on with it.
It's as though the people who made TFA didn't get Star Wars on a basic level ;^)
>>63998128
I don't think you could kill Han in the backstory. I would have been happy with something obvious like Leia being dead at the start, Han being retired, then he gets to recapture his youth and fly a ship into the Star Destroyer so civilians can escape or something. Then the time gap and happy ending of the original films isn't negated.
>>63998368
>It's as though the people who made TFA didn't get Star Wars on a basic level ;^)
Definitely. Kylo Ren's total shittiness as a villain is a prime example of this.
>>63997472
>The prequels basically had three new locations and even though they were in shitty movies they're at least memorable. They are Coruscant (city planet), Kamino (rainy planet) and Mustafar (lava planet). I felt like with the prequels the concept artists were at least having fun with what they were doing.
Wasn't really a fan of Mustafar.
Kamino and especially Coruscant were nice.
Awakens have new locations, but they're not very good.
Jakku is fine. The crashed star destroyer is super cool.
The rest though isn't very nice.
Snowy Forest and Not Snowy Forest.
meh.
Had hopes for the X-Wings over the water, but didn't get enough of that.
TFA had ZERO memorable lines or music.
>>63998461
>Wasn't really a fan of Mustafar.
You can't deny it wasn't a memorable landscape though. It felt like something in the same vein as the originals.
>Jakku is fine. The crashed star destroyer is super cool.
Jakku might be the worst, just because it's not Tatooine even though it's exactly like Tatooine.
>>63996329
oh you mean the NotDeathstar3? I was confused for a second
>>63998507
>it's not Tatooine even though it's exactly like Tatooine.
They both have sand?
>>63998415
you forgot about snoke, but i don't even blame you
>>63998759
but tatooine has personality
>>63997704
>just turn off ur brain lol xD
>>63996255
One of the mistakes they did was the politically correct, diverse casting.
Now I don't mean this because it's a way to appeal to SJWs or some other nonsense idiots whine about. I mean in the sense that it defangs the universe.
Ep VII says that there is no more racism or sexism in the universe. Everyone is basically equal.
But this means that there are no more social tensions and conflicts in the universe. There's nothing to ground it into the real world. The droids and aliens are no longer an underclass, and the Rebels and Imperials are no longer implicitly elitistic and discriminatory groups.
It's nice to have diversity and all, but they should've used that to portray social conflict instead of erasing it. The only social commentary left is Finn being a janitor.
>>63999086
I don't mind the Rebellion / Republic being multicultural and shit, but it did get under my skin seeing women and WOMEN OF COLOR on-board the First Order's control room. Like that defeats the whole point of what the Empire was supposed to represent in the original Trilogy.
>>63999296
You're thinking backwards.
The First Order are the good guys. They're the ones fighting against the corrupt Republic.
The Order is not Nazis or fascist. They don't want to purify the galaxy of lesser races. They're not even classist. Hux's speech makes it clear that the Order is an anti-Senate/Republic movement, long established as corrupt and dysfunctional.
>>63999086
>rebels are multicultural
>empire is literally lol space third reich
>white guy whips black guy with flaming cross
sjw at its finest, indoctrinating the kids
>>63999434
You're misreading.
The Rebels and Empire were always each other's reflections: they're both elite groups (the Rebellion had support IN THE SENATE). The Rebellion had Princess Leia, the Empire had Lord Vader.
The prequels establish that the Empire started out as the Republic. The Republic is corrupt and prey to evil forces (the Separatists were always right). The Senate votes in the Emperor, who in turns destroys the Senate. The Rebels want a return of the Republic, but this means they merely prefer corruption to tyranny.
The First Order is an anti-Republic revolt. They're not Nazis or even generically fascist, they're a revolt against the Republic, which we know from the prequels to be evil.
The Order and Kylo Ren are the good guys, even if they act insane.
>>63996255
>I can't think of a single memorable creature or location from the movie.
I loved the dead battlefield on Jakku. It really gives some history to the place.
But you're right there wasn't much exploring Star Wars as a place in this movie. No new stuff. But it did go deeper with what we knew, especially the storm troopers.
Then again star wars has done pretty much all the 'environment' planets that you can think of.
>sand planet
>jungle planet
>swamp planet
>cloud planet
>water planet
>lava planet
>nothing new
>he forgot about portions
>>63996255
A stormtrooper being a good guy
What part of Museum of Star Wars don't you understand?
>>63999585
It didnt go deeper with stormtroopers, it created all new ones based on a completely different system. In ANH the Imperial army is a volunteer service.
>>63996255
I think I might be the only one on /tv/ who liked TFA. If you look at logic and plot holes or lack of creativity, then it is certainly not a good movie, but it FELT good (remember, feeling?). Maybe it's nostalgia goggles, I don't know. I just enjoyed it.
And for the people complaining about the lack of new shit introduced: this Star Wars is a new generation, it's like a new TV show in this franchise. The first season mostly sucks, because they don't know what they are yet, but future installments will have their own unique way. It's the same thing with the soundtrack: no new iconic themes, only rehash of the old stuff and some new elements. This is not a coincidence.
The first movie was fan service, in the second movie they will go into their own direction.
>>64001067
>FELT good (remember, feeling?)
it really sucks that I'm stuck with logic affecting how I feel about things. I mean if I wasn't like that I could do stuff like give money to televangelists and feel better, but no! I'm stuck with my fact-based view of the world.
>>64001067
>It's the same thing with the soundtrack: no new iconic themes, only rehash of the old stuff and some new elements.
if only. it actually hurt the movie that they didn't play the Imperial March when they showed Star Destroyer exteriors. really made it feel like any generic sci-fi film.
>>64001108
Ever heard of suspension of disbelief? With your attitude, the only movies you enjoy are documentaries.
>>64001141
The total absense of imperial march was a suprise to me too, but I think it makes sense. In the OT, the imperial march was associated with Darth Vader and the Empire. In the prequels, we only heard it when there were foreshadowings of Vader or the Palpatine empire. Since Vader, Palpatine and the Empire are gone, there is no space for the imperial march.
We will get our own unique theme when Kylo finishes his training.
>>63997083
Boy that is a shit design.
