>The problem isn't Star Wars as cinema. The troubling thing is what Star Wars's Cloud City-high place in our culture says about us.
>We're a generation of Peter Pans who can't let go of childhood obsessions. Over the last few decades, even when Star Wars movies weren't being made, the same childlike sugar rush that fuels them has grown ever more omnipresent in our media. Movies based on Marvel Comics—which like Star Wars is also owned by Disney—dominate the box office (five Marvel titles are due out in 2016), and they're slowly getting a bigger foothold in television as well: ABC's Marvel: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., and Netflix's Daredevil and Jessica Jones.
>I don't know why we even bother branding anything "young adult" fiction anymore with all the 30-year-olds lining up for the new Hunger Games or Divergent movies. Even the "sophisticated" stuff—The Walking Dead, The Dark Knight, Game of Thrones—are little more than adolescent fever dreams dressed up as adult. Scenes of sex and violence and the addition of moody antiheroes can't hide that fact that the material is still crowded with zombies, outer space, King Arthur-esque fairy tales, and crime fighters dressed in spandex.
>For those headed to a theater near you to queue up for the latest [Star Wars] entry: May the Farce be with you.
Damn, a Chicago Reader reporter wrote some harsh words about Star Wars, the modern entertainment industries (games, movies etc) and consumers.
Do you agree with him, /tv/? What are your thoughts? Remember not to get bitter.
>>63985975
He's completely right. A really, really popular thing to do nowadays is repaint series for children/teenagers as something for adults because people don't want to leave those series behind with them.
It's pathetic and needs to stop.But even this fad isn't why Star Wars 7 was so fucking bad. It was because they got the worst writers on the planet and the most overambitious director to handle it.
>>63985975
But these movies make more money overseas than in domestic
>>63987090
>The worst writers on the planet.
Speaking of immature, this is how children write and think. A whole generation that grew up on calling everything the worst, and "I can't even." It's all hyperbole made to fit in. Please fuck yourself, you child. It's bad, but it isn't the worst. Not even remotely close.
he's not wrong.
>>63987090
>I'm right everyone else is wrong
>they're the worst writers on the planet I can't even
Hahahahahahahahaha
I was with him until he talked shit about the Arthurian tales
>>63987090
I know! When has that hack Lawrence Kasdan ever written anything good or memorable
>>63985975
>Even the "sophisticated" stuff—The Walking Dead, The Dark Knight, Game of Thrones—are little more than adolescent fever dreams dressed up as adult
>"sophisticated" stuff—
Dropped here.
It's the marketing and spectacle. Why blame star wars when it can happen with anything that gets pushed hard enough and properly? I don't buy the argument.
It's a consumerism thing, something more rooted in values we already have.
>>63987090
>repaint series for children/teenagers as something for adults
Name something. I can't think of anything they've done this to, for fear of losing a chunk of their demographic
![McLintock!_4[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ka4ip4q.jpg "McLintock!_4[1].jpg")
>>63985975
It's nothing new.
As long as television and films have been around it has been about men who can't let go of their childhood.
The entire western genre was built upon it, and ruled cinema for half a century.
The fiction that I passively consume makes me a better person than you.
>>63985975
Adults liked cowboys and indians westerns in the 50s too. This is nothing new.
![flintstones[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/gqqE6zV.jpg "flintstones[1].jpg")
The Flintstones was the #5 ranked movie in 1994.
It wasn't little kids going to see this film. It was adult who grew up watching the cartoon.
>>63987378
Batman
Marvel (to an extent)
Harry Potter
>>63985975
>Netflix's Daredevil and Jessica Jones
>for kids
fuck off grampa
>>63987315
>tfw no mega-budget Gawain and the Green Knight
where the fuck did humanity go so wrong?
>>63985975
>Remember not to get bitter.
They guy who wrote that is the most bitter man in existence.
>>63985975
He almost started to have a point, but devolved into "STOP LIKING WHAT I DON'T LIKE."
>>63987315
This was a very nice looking movie but it has some of the hammiest acting I've ever seen.
>>63985975
>May the Farce be with you
the most reddit shit I've ever read
I don't get it. I still read books. If I want to feel high-brow, I read classics. If I just want a fun time, I read The Lord of the Rings.
This reminds me of when people talk about stories in video games. "This video game has a great story! It's so deep!"
Nobody but manchildren play a video game for the story. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic has a story on par with a Kevin J. Anderson novel. I play video games, but only if (and because) they're fun.
I just want a simple space opera film with some interesting characters and a minor twist in the plot here or there. The fuck is it with people pretending this generation can't have multiple, separate sources of entertainment, some of which are more intellectually stimulating than others? I don't play Super Mario Bros. for the story, and I don't read The Stranger to have a quick bit of fun.
>>63985975
I'm annoyed at how corporate those movies are, but the assertion that anything fantastical is artistically worthless is tired and stupid. These movies and shows are soulless because they're blatantly products, not because they contain inherently fictive elements.
This is the kind of shit that dumb pseudo-intellectuals who think they're smart for having watched a couple of films in the Criterion collection and having read The Great Gatsby spout.
>>63987315
This desu, King Arthur is an ancient and respectable legend, not a fairy tale for children. Fucking plebs don't know shit about history.
>>63985975
it's true though
I think the issue is that there's not much for adults to bond over as adults, so the only thing connecting us is money, family, and stuff encountered in childhood. Money is a touchy subject for everyone, nobody outside of your family gives a fuck about your family, and so the only thing left is childhood cultural icons. The rest of the genres in media get so specific that it's basically the same problem with family again: nobody needs to give a fuck about the nuances in your favorite micro-genre of music or movies or whatever because everyone else who would care already has their own that requires just as much attention.
>>63987849
>I think the issue is that there's not much for adults to bond over as adults
Adults don't need to "bond over things" thanks for proving OPs point.
Spot on
>>63987242
>>63987179
nice samefag
This is the same kind of jackass writer who doesn't appreciate the fact that presidents, actors, dignitaries etc have had "childlike" hobbies well into adulthood for as long as anyone can remember. Look in history and you can find guys building models, playing with toy soldiers, shit like that. It's the same kind of thing just a different medium.
i like my marvel, my dc, my star wars, my lotr...fuck anybody who is gonna say i shouldn't like it. i've got a wife, 2 kids...and i do my job. i also enjoy a lot of other things. fuck anybody who is gonna tell me what i enjoy isn't correct
>>63987739
>I don't read The Stranger to have a quick bit of fun.
You're a pleb, you just have never read The Stranger to begin with.
>>63985975
>We
>>63987947
>based H. G. Wells playing "Little Wars: a game for boys from twelve years of age to one hundred and fifty and for that more intelligent sort of girl who likes boys' games and books."
All entertainment is a distraction. What difference does it make.
>>63987849
ever hear about adults having conversations about books? or actual movies? probably not cause you got shit taste.
>>63987947
Sorry but those people are sad too.
I went to a model train show as a boy and all the main guys were 50-70 years old in their conductors hats. I never played with my trsain set again after that.
>>63987315
What a hack, Arthurian legend has been around for hundreds of years.
>>63988039
>cites a writer who wrote books literally aimed at young boys as an example of an artist who continued being a child as an adult
no shit he would
This isn't a new development. People have been like this forever, and longing for lost childhood is something many stories commonly aim to do. It's not a criticism except to thise pseudo intellectuals who pride themselves on being 'mature'.
I don't know why writers feel the need to state the obvious like they're revelatory statements.
>>63988081
Everyone is sad in their own way fuckhead, don't act like you have no faults.
>>63988081
why do you care how old the people are? they have hobbies in which they enjoy. you know nothing about their lives other than they're at a convention for trains. not many people only enjoy one thing...and just because that one hobby you see them enjoying isn't 'cool' doesn't mean it permeates into their entire life.
obviously there are exceptions of people only enjoying one thing and obsessing over it...but even then, what's really the problem?
>>63987947
There's a difference between enjoying modern children's toys and wanting the stories you watched as a kid be rewritten endlessly.
>>63988212
No. There isn't. Please explain how.
>>63987378
>>Even the "sophisticated" stuff—The Walking Dead, The Dark Knight, Game of Thrones
GODDAMN this guy is a faggot
>>63988081
Yeah, you got embarrassed for someone and then never confronted that feeling in order to enjoy something regardless of what other people think. My grandpa had a "toy train" set in his basement that was huge and intricate, and he was an engineer and driver in WW2.
The same kind of people who think the desire for entertainment drops off with age are the same kind of people who think old people never have sex. It's juvenile. Whether it's playing a sport, playing chess, reading, listening to radio, anything... it's all just entertainment. Every human being has a guilty pleasure.
>>63988243
One is enjoying current things. The other is disrespecting older thing.
>>63988288
but it's so uncool XD...like, why would i wanna do something which OLD people like haha...ewww :(
>>63988039
Yep. It's good for the good ol' mental plasticity or whatever it's called. Keep the brain sharp by playing all kinds of thinking games. The same reason in old folk homes they encourage them to play games to keep their mental and physical faculties strong.
>>63988323
What the fuck are you talking about
You can't just say something which makes no sense and sit back smugly in your chair as if you've just said something profound
>>63987381
Eh, I don't think Westerns are that childish really.
At least the men used to be men in those movies.
>>63988395
I think you are illiterate.
>>63985975
I agree with him.
If kids want to have their kids films, they should have them. Enjoy Star Wars, if that's your thing. Enjoy The Hunger Games, if you're a teenage girl. Don't let me take that away from you.
But what I don't like is that literally zero films I wanted to see in 2015 got wide releases. It Follows, Macbeth, Anomalisa, Son of Saul, Tale of Tales, The Witch, none of these films got wide releases. I want to see these films and I literally can't because Star Wars and The Avengers 2 and fucking Ant Man are all the theaters are playing, and all the Oscar bait films get limited releases at the same fucking time in December and maybe if you're lucky they'll get a wider release in January or February next year.
It used to be you could find independent films and foreign films in movie theaters easily. Now just figuring out when the limited release is coming, if it's coming at all, is difficult. I missed Macbeth in my city because it only played for three days in one theater and I wasn't googling for release information every single day.
>>63988379
>keeping the brain sharp by watching movies that literally require you to turn your brain off if you want to enjoy the experience
Uh, no.
>>63988003
How do you feel that there are people in the world who starve and don't have access to clean drinking water? Can your Star Wars love you? Can it hold you close at night? Does it feed you? Does it protect your from real war or real violence?
>>63988544
Do you think that suspension of disbelief requires you to "turn off your brain"? It's like I'm arguing with characters in a Kafka novel. Trying to discuss anything with you people is fucking impossible. Our viewpoints are incommensurable, considering the fact that I'm not a complete fucking retard who thinks the world is out to get him unlike you. Just post your little memes and keep appealing to the 'authoritative' opinions of bored, scared little shut ins who are too fucking cowardly to confront an idea that is different from theirs so they just write it off as "reddit" or "unsubstantial" or some other neat little category. Please continue to feign adulthood and maybe it'll magically fall into your lap. Oh wait, I said 'magically.' Sorry for triggering you.
sure the subject matter might seem "immature". but they all do one thing right. Good storytelling. And isnt that what we watch movies for anyway?
>>63988693
Hey, OP asked us not to be bitter.
>>63987468
Flintstones was very popular as a cartoon in the 80s/early 90s and they made that for kids
lol fucking neofags and redditors getting triggered as fuck
>e-everyone plays with toys and watches movies based on coloring books
>>63987468
Was worth it for Goodman and Rick Moranis
>>63988767
>Flintstones
>for kids
Not until the later seasons.
>>63985975
>a
>reporter
>wrote some
>words about
>>63988857
What's wrong about that?
>>63985975
Is he patrician?
>>63985975
>antiheroes can't hide that fact that the material is still crowded with zombies, outer space, King Arthur-esque fairy tales, and crime fighters dressed in spandex.
There is nothing inherently immature about any of these things. Done well they can be as deep and meaningful as any other style of entertainment. The guy who wrote that has an inflated sense of self worth.
>>63988544
I'm just talking about entertainment generally, not SW specifically. The author was shitting on a wide range of entertaining activities like a pretentious retard.
>>63985975
Lost me at Jessica Jones.
She's a deplorable cunt. The most unlikable, ugly, amoral piece of shit on TV.
>>63988537
>It Follows, Macbeth, Anomalisa, Son of Saul, Tale of Tales, The Witch, none of these films got wide releases
You know why these movies didn't get a wide release? Because they are niche as fuck. People can't bring their whole family to some weird pretentious art movie, but they can bring them to see the Avengers. It's not necessarily that society likes "childish" things. It's the fact that stuff with the most market appeal is going to be the most popular and make the most money because everyone can go see it.
>>63988537
>It used to be you could find independent films and foreign films in movie theaters easily
Spoken like a teenage who just discovered The Doors and the Criterion Collection.
Shit wasn't as easily available in the past. It's FAR easier to find independent films and foreign films now considering in the past, theater showtimes were used found via looking up newspapers instead of looking it up on your internet-connected handheld computer.
One of the old ways to find out about foreign films in the old days was to have someone who served as the conduit to those films and recommend which movies to watch/avoid. Now, some idiot can post a link on your facebook suggesting to watch It Follows by posting a trailer to it and you can torrent a HD quality of it within minutes for free instead of driving out to the small independent theater and shelling out money while sitting with strangers.
It's just way too easy to be exposed to more movies and watch them now, you dumbfuck
>>63987739
It's naive to assume video games can't have a good story just because theyre video games though, they're a medium just like any other.
In fact it's very easy to see how a video game can have a deeper and more intricate story than any movie, entirely because they can be far longer and have a much more detailed universe.
In a movie you can show books on a shelf in the background of a scene. In a video game it's possible that the player can walk over to that bookshelf and read something, even if it's only a little tidbit about the universe, it's still a level of depth unachieveable in a non interactive media.
>>63985975
>the material is still crowded with zombies, outer space, King Arthur-esque fairy tales,
>outer space
He has a point, apart from this part right here. How the fuck does setting alone dictate weather or not a movie is "childish"?
>>63989102
he seems like the same sort of faggot who think's reading fiction books is a waste of time because it isn't real.
>>63987742
This.
While it is quite cynical, and maybe slightly self fellating, he has a point. But things generally has always been that way.
>"Those big-shot writers could never dig the fact that there are more salted peanuts consumed than caviar... If the public likes you, you're good."- Mickey Spillaine
I find the "you're good" part arguable, but he has a point.
>>63988767
Everything in this post is wrong
>If it's fun it's childish
Found the sociopath who was whipped and not allowed to have fun as a kid and grew up hoping everyone else would be as bitter as him
I think of it like you are supposed to think of the Bechdel Test. A movie isn't inherently bad because it plays to childish fantasy any more than a movie is inherently bad if it doesn't happen to have any women talking in a scene without men (extras without dialogue don't count) about something or someone that isn't a man. These things don't make or break movies. A movie is good based on how well it does what it sets out to do or "so bad its good" based on how entertainingly it fails to do this. What is significant isn't the independent incidents, it's the trend. It's like weather and climate, if you want to use another comparison. Good weather can be a part of bad climate change.
We need more slow-paced movies, deep movies, experimental movies (but only sometimes all at once) instead of just variations of endless action flicks. I know we're all waiting for the public to tire of this but it kind-of feels like waiting for a child to get tired of eating sugar.
>>63989212
Every fiction book you bought was a waste of money. That money could have been used to feed a starving child in Africa. But your stupid hobby caused him to starve to death instead. Enjoy your make believe space movies asshole.
>>63989070
I think the past you would definitely find some of the most popular foreign movies on the minds of your average American though. Like if Kurosawa's movies were released nowadays, people would talk about them, but they wouldn't nearly have the kind of cultural penetration that they did years ago. Even "low brow" stuff like Godzilla too. When was the last time a Japanese Godzilla movie had a wide release in the US? Probably way back in the 70s, I suspect.
>>63989385
it had a resurgence I mean, it was very popular with kids back then which is why they made the live action version
>>63989425
>We need more slow-paced movies, deep movies, experimental movies (but only sometimes all at once) instead of just variations of endless action flicks. I know we're all waiting for the public to tire of this but it kind-of feels like waiting for a child to get tired of eating sugar.
The facts are that movies cost more money to produce than books and that most movies aren't funded by your tastes but instead by producers and financiers who might or might not share your tastes. Books, whether written or in e-format, remain the superior genre when it comes to braintertainment.
>Scenes of sex and violence and the addition of moody antiheroes can't hide that fact that the material is still crowded with zombies, outer space, King Arthur-esque fairy tales, and crime fighters dressed in spandex.
The Iliad and Odyssey confirmed for capeshit of the ancients
I don't see how he's comparing GoT to Star Wars.
I mean GoT isn't a master piece but I don't see how it's trying to market to adults wanting to be children again.
That show is half politics and the other half is mostly people shitting on each other. Yeah there's monsters and tits and sex but if you classify that also as for man children, what are you left with, as things for "mature" people exactly?
>>63985975
What's the alternative then? Movies about doing your taxes? Or just not watching movies at all?
>>63989613
>what are you left with, as things for "mature" people exactly?
The works of Kafka, Albert Camus, Nietzsche, and Kant among other notable writers and philosophers.
>>63987815
>Story about wizards and knights and shit
>Pleb tier garbage
>Oh wait, it was written hundreds of years ago
>Suddenly it's artistic genius
Completely nonsensical and the entire reason why uppity cunts who whine about anything that doesn't try to perfectly emulate reality need to be ignored.
>>63985975
The author forgot to describe why such behavior is a problem. People can have whatever hobbies they want. What's the big deal?
>>63989699
!!!
>>63987742
smartest post in thread
>>63989705
The problem is people like them aren't contributing to society. The same mass audiences who enjoy and talk about Star Wars are the same deadweights dragging down civilization.
>>63989510
>I think the past you would definitely find some of the most popular foreign movies on the minds of your average American though.
Are you serious? You're saying this despite the earlier decades being full of more racist people? Take off your rose tinted glasses.
>Even "low brow" stuff like Godzilla too. When was the last time a Japanese Godzilla movie had a wide release in the US? Probably way back in the 70s, I suspect.
I guess you were too young to remember when Godzilla 2000 (a Japanese release with a full Japanese cast and director) was released on 2,111 screens in 2000 for its opening weekend.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0188640/business?ref_=tt_dt_bus
Clearly, you're just speaking out of your ass and childish mindset of "da past wuz so much more intellectual!!!111"
>>63989482
Starving children in africa are an abstract that have no impact on my life. I've never been to africa, have no plans to go to africa, never seen or met a starving child from africa.
They may as well be on a different planet.
>>63989705
>What's the big deal?
The big deal is that adults who should be reading Hemingway, are enthralled by Star Wars and The Avengers.
>>63989510
>. Like if Kurosawa's movies were released nowadays, people would talk about them, but they wouldn't nearly have the kind of cultural penetration that they did years ago.
Jesus fucking Christ. If you think the average American ever saw or had even heard about Kurosawa you're so fucking delusional you need to stop posting.
>>63989686
Literally the first guy you listed wrote about monsters and tits.
>>63989686
>Kafka, Albert Camus, Nietzsche, and Kant
>>63989782
>Hemingway
Hahahaha, but seriously though.
>BAWWW WHY DO PEOPLE LIKE THINGS I DONT LIKE? F-F-FUCKING PLEBS!
He sounds like /tv/.
>>63989812
It's not about what he wrote, it's about how he wrote it. King writes about monsters and tits as well, but his craftsmanship is nowhere near the level of Kafka.
>>63989686
So philosophy, basically? I get thats a big and varied topic there, but something tells me that everyone has enjoyed some kind of ttypical fiction, even the people you're talking about.
I still don't see how sex and politics are expressly things aimed towards man children, and that's half of GoT. The other half is mostly people still just talking, with occasional spurts of violence from said talking.
I don't see how GoT could be called soemthing for man children, unless one thinks all fiction is for children.
>>63989090
They can, but they don't.
And if they try, the game suffers for it.
The medium is not suited for a narrative. Either you have a tight story that brooks no freedom or exploration, or an open world free roam sandbox where your choices, though numerous, are meaningless.
>Muh make believe shit is better than your make believe shit!
Feels good to be STEM master race
>>63989758
Citation? Do you have a study confirming that people who enjoy action movies are also society drainers?
>>63985975
Yes, I do.
>>63989861
>It's not about what he wrote, it's about how he wrote it.
That's really the crux of why the article posted by OP is fucking retarded, though. The quality of the work is called into question on the basic elements of the stories being told, not how they're being told or the subtext or lack thereof.
“Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”
>>63989782
Why should they? It's like saying people should drive cars rather than ride bicycles. They serve different audiences and purposes.
>>63989759
>Are you serious? You're saying this despite the earlier decades being full of more racist people? Take off your rose tinted glasses.
The past is a funny thing. People were definitely more racist and in some ways less openminded about other cultures, but on the other hand intellectualism was a lot more valued than it is today (because we have to beat the Russians) and so with that came people who were still curious about other cultures and the world. Besides, the most popular foreign movies have always been European and Japanese anyway because they are more relateable.
>I guess you were too young to remember when Godzilla 2000 (a Japanese release with a full Japanese cast and director) was released on 2,111 screens in 2000 for its opening weekend.
I admit I was wrong about this, still the most popular Godzilla movies were the ones released in the 50s though the 70s. It's what people know and remember.
>>63985975
this society is all about surface.
there is no more depth to any of this trite content.
everyone would rather see action, than rather an intricate understanding to how something works and can be plausible in a work of fiction.
>>63989525
Oh. Nevermind then.
>>63990006
>Besides, the most popular foreign movies have always been European and Japanese anyway because they are more relateable.
Again, keep demonstrating you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Guess what, of the top five highest grossing foreign films in the US, two of them (in first and third) are Chinese. And from the last 15 years, despite your absurd bullshit claim that foreign films decades ago were somehow on the minds of the average American.
>>63985975
This stuff is only indicative of a stunted development if you mold your entire lifestyle around it. Y'know, if you have more "collectibles" on display than photos of friends and family.
But showing an interest in the fantastic isn't inherently bad. The reasons all this stuff is doing so well is because the technology has become advanced and cheap enough to pull it off on a regular basis. Lots of people have an awful lot of shit to deal with in their life, people who actually work for a living, what free time they have they're going to want to unwind and see something spectacular. They can't all be paid intellectually masturbate all day and gripe that the feckless rabble doesn't appreciate the latest indy darling about the plight of a bisexual single mother or an Oscar bait historic drama.
>>63989804
How old are your parents? Ask them if they have heard of the Magnificent Seven, and knew it was remade from the Seven Samurai, and then ask them if they know who made the Seven Samurai, and they'd probably have heard of Kurosawa.
>>63990233
>and they'd probably have heard of Kurosawa.
They haven't, so again, fuck off with your bullshit. Ever post you make just demonstrates your idiocy.
>>63990180
I'm talking about European and Japanese movies in America in the past.
>>63987381
You know not everyone is from New York, right? There are movie goers who either lived in the rural America in the mid 20th century, or their fathers actually lived in the Old West. There's a reason westerners do so poorly nowadays -- no one actually alive today remembers living in them
>>63990278
And I'm talking about the movies that actually made money in the US. Which surprise, are all from the last 20 years.
>>63989758
>people like them aren't contributing to society.
What the fuck is that supposed to mean? The majority of these people probably have jobs, and a wide spectrum of jobs at that. If "society" as you define it means anything other than this, then its something that's reserved for a small minority anyways, so its a fucking pointless thing to complain about. Humans have always had idiotic diversions to distract them from their worthless lives, yet somehow we ended up to the point where we are. The quote in OP just reeks of some miserable man whose trying to drag everyone else down.
>>63990277
Guess my parents are more cultured than yours. Or born a lot earlier.
>>63989758
And yet here you are posting on /tv/
>>63990481
Thank you for literally confirming that everything you've based on the "average American" in the past is not actual statistical data, but your fucking parents. I can't believe I wasted my time responding to you. I certainly won't again.
>>63989758
>The problem is people like them aren't contributing to society. The same mass audiences who enjoy and talk about Star Wars are the same deadweights dragging down civilization.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/spacex-falcon-9-booster-achieves-epic-vertical-landi-420269/
>“Remember, the goal is Mars, because nobody wants to go back to Jakku,” says another, in reference to the fictional Star Wars planet occupied by outlaws and thieves.
Meanwhile, name a single contribution to society you've ever made.
>>63985975
>"We're a generation of Peter Pans who can't let go of childhood obsessions."
In the final volume of the book A Positively Final Appearance (1997), Guinness recounts grudgingly giving an autograph to a young fan who claimed to have watched Star Wars over 100 times, on the condition that the boy promise to stop watching the film, because, as Guinness told him, "this is going to be an ill effect on your life." The fan was stunned at first, but later thanked him (though some sources say it went differently). Guinness is quoted as saying: "'Well,' I said, 'do you think you could promise never to see Star Wars again?' He burst into tears. His mother drew herself up to an immense height. 'What a dreadful thing to say to a child!' she barked, and dragged the poor kid away. Maybe she was right but I just hope the lad, now in his thirties, is not living in a fantasy world of secondhand, childish banalities."
>>63990539
That's good because you're wrong. Not just my parents but everyone older than 60 has seen the Magnificent Seven and knows its origins.
>>63985975
He is 100% correct, we have reddit and internet meme culture to blame for this. Instead of growing up and moving on we can find escape in incestuous internet communities.
I mean seriously could you imagine a 20something in the 1950s enjoying fucking baneposting? Fuck no because he was busy raising a family.
>>63987742
Pretty much this. These are the people who claim that anything possessing magic or otherworldly elements isn't worthy of being literary while forgetting things like The Illiad and the Divine Comedy are basically proto-fantasy.
Speculative fiction, like every other form of storytelling right now, is going through a severe dry spell for new and original ideas, partly driven by people who are trying to shell out uninspired garbage in an attempt to make as much money as they can and on studios and publishers being unwilling to take the risk of failing after deciding that every movie must have at least $XX million dollar budget. But anyone who wouldn't see the artistic merit of Stranger in a Strange Land or Book of the New Sun can have their opinion rightfully disregarded.
>>63990674
Women are to blame for this tbqh family
>>63985975
I think it's actually a testament to western society that we are able to peruse our pleasures endlessly without repercussion. In fact I think the notion that we are somehow weak and unmanly stems from a hyper insecurity about masculinity, that at it's worst manifests as heritage obsessed beard wearing posers longing for a past that was never experienced first hand. The masculine or adult strawman is based on nothing but fabricated specters born out of marketing, ingrained into our subconscious as somehow being more legitimate than following ones pleasures in this fleeting life.
Blackstar out Jan 8th
>>63985975
Looks fun to me.
I would't take it very seriously though.
if only every film were a mature, adult look at life and humanity. true art isnt in escapism and fantasy it's in absolute realism and slice-of-life deconstructions of ultimately human characters
also my favourite author is hemingway and my favourite music is a single dull tone played infinitely because a single note is all that's needed
>Let go of your childhood obsessions
In place of what? A dreary 9 to 5? A college degree that leads to massive debt and no relevant careers? A captcha that doesn't know what soup is? An inflated housing market, making cities unaffordable (Canada anyway).
Fuck this guy
>Hurr durr it's not deep n mature for people liek me
Fuck right off, it's entertainment and escapism and there is nothing wrong with that
>>63985975
I was raised on toys r u commercials. I don't wanna grow up. I'm a toys r us cuck.
>>63990916
So, you're officially the most boring person ever?
No imagination at all.
>>63985975
Instead of collecting toys I should play with balls and spank other men on their tight asses.
>>63990959
you're a child
>>63990959
escapism =/= mindlessness
>>63987513
17 year olds like you are still kids, pal.
>>63988040
Either you have a really depressing outlook on literally the entirety of life, or you've never actually experienced decent media.
I'm sure everyone on /tv/ can think of a movie or show that had a deeper effect or impact on them than "haha that was entertaining time to turn off the glowbox X^D"
>>63989758
>sit in mom's basement all day watching classic cinema
>never leave the house
>never have a conversation outside of 4chan
>can't relate to anyone
>contributing to society
Tbqh, I think all fictional works are equally escapist. L'Avventura is just as fake as Star Wars because both of them never happened so who cares? Just watch them and enjoy them
>>63991653
What does escapism have to do with it? Just because things are equally "escapist" does not mean theyre.. like the same thing? Equating L'avventura and Star Wars is fucking stupid. You go to them for completely different reasons. They operate entirely different spaces within film.
He's not entirely wrong but it all boils down to "stop liking this thing!"
>>63991740
I watched them because I had free time. I was able to imagine myself as Sandro just as easily as I was able to imagine myself as Luke Skywalker. They're both characters who are equally fictitious and as such in the grand scheme of things say the same things about humanity.
What is wrong with enjoying things?
Yeah, cinema as an artform can be an amazing thing, but so can movies that are simple but make people feel good.
>>63985975
>You're an adult now!
>Stop having fun!!
The article.
Seriously, dude needs to just chillax, brah.
>tells people to grow up
>his contribution to society is a job complaining about things he doesn't like
>>63991971
Because you're a man now.
You're supposed to meet a woman, marry her, knock her up 2-4 times (results may vary), then grind away at a dead-end job to pay for those crotch spawn to get through useless college degrees until you finally die from heart disease. And maybe, MAYBE if you're lucky your dear wife will allow you a "man cave" somewhere hidden in the home you paid for to play with your boy "toys".
>>63990661
Confirmed troll bait.
>>63990916
>boyhood
You probably thought Tree of Life was the bees knees.
>>63985975
> I don't know how to put this politely, so I'll just come out and say it: Fuck Star Wars.
>I have a fantasy where I leap into the cockpit of an X-Wing and fire proton torpedoes at everything Star Wars-related. All of it. The movies. The books. The podcasts. Jar Jar Binks plush dolls. Hayden Christensen's boring face on cereal boxes. Plastic lightsabers that 40-year-old men are wont to wield. I'd finally rid the world of gratuitous "Slave Leia" golden bikinis and R2D2-shaped garbage cans. While the Disney Corporation tails me in a TIE fighter, I'd take aim at the blueprints for the proposed Lucas Museum of Narrative Art in Chicago, shredding the plans into a thousand little pieces while Han Solo shouts, "Great shot, kid! That was one in a million!"
This nigga mad as hell over the fact people are passionate about things he doesn't like.
>>63989686
>Albert Camus.
Nah.
Star Wars and It's A Wonderful Life have way more artistic value than that hack.
>>63990656
The Force Awakens is shit tier
>>63989699
>implying hundreds of years is the argument here
You have no idea what you're talking about, broski. Take an evening to watch the film, at the very least.
>>63985975
Agree with him 100%
>>63987947
>presidents, actors, dignitaries
are they the best society has to offer these days? you are pathetic and completely culture-less anon.
Most people don't value art very much, and don't see movies or any other media as anything but ways to mindlessly pass the time.
This has always been the case and it's silly to get upset about it.
This is so infuriatingly stupid. This implies that this is the first generation interested in escapism and recapturing youth, which is historically wrong. It's just that today we have greater and more broad access to this desire than ever before.
This is symptomatic or the problem of modern media and the mass access people have not just to reading it but creating it, and that is this horrible notion that writers have of not "I have a thought, but I have a responsibility to do the leg work to see if I'm right" but "I have a thought and because I feel it in my heart I know it's right." There's no work to opinion, and what's worse is people just seek confirmation bias to their own bullshit (see OP and 90% of this site).
Perpetuation of nonsense and the acceptance of opinion as fact is way more damaging than plebeian cinematic taste and cultural escapism. It's escapism in and of itself, but directly to a realm of unearned self-importance that has neither room for nor ability to process criticism.
I find it fucking hilarious that most replies are
>Haha, he is totally right! That's why I like fantasy, tabletop, card games, King Arthur, videogames and anime!
The irony doesnt even occur to you
the old guy actually looks like he works out
I can see the logic of OP's post. But complaining about the popularity of stories of princes, apocalyptic survivors, and super heroes is missing the point. Those stories are important and we are okay with hearing the same beats over and over again because if we do it right we can apply the same decisions our heroes and villans make in a our day to day lives.
But that's the issue--nobody applies those stories. We forgot that ancient shamans and priests would use those stories as tools to teach their kids when big decisions show up and how to make them. villagers would get together and do their naked story circles and participate and create culture that pertains to them.
Nowadays those same stories are being used against us in a way to get our money. It doesn't matter if we learn anything as long as we throw money at the shadow makers. I think the stories are fine but the real, deep rooted problem is that we're consuming culture rather than responding and making our own. Until we get to a truely post scarcity situation, it's unfixable, because it's inextricably linked to capitalism and consumerism.
But if everyone didn't care about pop culture because we're too busy making our own shit, we wouldn't have writers complaining about a society wide Peter Pan syndrome, theyd be complaining about how there's just too much good shit going on and not enough time to give everyone their due admiration.
>>63994195
>theyd be complaining about how there's just too much good shit going on and not enough time to give everyone their due admiration.
They are complaining about that...
>>63988288
I skateboard, I'm 30, I totally not caring about what others think. There was a key difference.It was the fact that these old men were hanging out in a basement playing with toys in Conductor hats. A JOB that other adults actually do. It was weird to me. It was more than just having a hobby it was pretending to be something they weren't, the way a child pretends.
Someone post an example of something that would be classified as "fun" but isn't inherently childish?
>>63993492
Art is rare.
>>63995478
>I skateboard, I'm 30
Kill yourself, seriously
>>63995497
Painting, playing an instrument, surfing etc.
>>63995543
LOL
It's part of my soul, so leave me alone, and if you don't dig, look the other way and I'll be out of your face shortly.
>>63995556
>surfing
Culture defied by stoners, similar to skateboarding, mostly done by teenagers
>Painting
What like with your fingers?
>Playing an instrument
Childish, simple minds relieved by coordinated notes
>>63987739
Pretty much this. I've grown especially tired of TLOU, Arkham series, and Ass Creed acting like story takes precedence over shitty gameplay and mechanics.
>>63995611
>soul
>soul
>soul
>>63991434
Yes, but at its core, media is produced for entertainment and resulting profit.
>>63985975
Okay buddy, whats the difference between capeshit and, let's say, the World Cup? Why is one more "mature" than the other? Both are ways of entertainment that have no real reach into our lives. What makes these people call one of the two "childhood obsession", and the other an acceptable, even traditional, human past time?
>>63995659
I kinda get Arkham and Ass Creed but TLOU? It's not even a franchise! How can it be overbearing/pollutive?
>>63987378
capeshit m8
it was meant for 8 year olds, now it's meant for young adults who get all the HILARIOUS self-aware banter between the characters
>>63988040
This is the kind of psuedo-intellectual bullshit an art student would say. I feel sorry for you, Anon.
>>63985975
>can't hide that fact that the material is still crowded with zombies, outer space, King Arthur-esque fairy tales, and crime fighters dressed in spandex.
So he just really hates fantastical elements?
>all these triggered manchildren itt
>>63985975
He makes a fair observation about the current climate of cinema, but to suggest that fantasy settings are inherently a bad thing or that grounded real life dramas are inherently better is idiotic
>>63989686
>Nietzche
Holy shit, spot the faux-nihilist liberal.
>>63989686
SASHA GREY??????
>>63987742
This x1000
He thinks pointing out that a piece of media has zombies or superheros in it passes as legitimate criticism, which is retarded
>>63989930
Failing math and getting a C in biology in High School doesnt make you "STEM master race"
>>63985975
100% right. Force awakens was a competent movie though unlike literally everything Marvel
>>63990674
>We have reddit and meme culture to blame
Are you literally this dense? Reddit is not some parasitacal being destroying society at the core. You're just a conceited manchild on another website that "opposes" Reddit. Fuck, Anon, grow up already.
>>63990916
7/10 satire, too obvious but good content
I agree with him about every example he lists, but I don't necessarily think the subject matter itself necessitates a childrens' story. Look at Watchmen, it's an adult comic. Or Preacher or Transmetropolitan, hell even Punisher MAX.
I also don't think fantasy, zombies, or outer space are entirely for children. 2001 is hardly a kids' movie. Just because most filmmakers use these things to make immature art does not mean the settings/themes/what-have-you can't be used for mature, thoughtful projects
>>63985975
>We're a generation of Peter Pans who can't let go of childhood obsessions.
This is objectively right.
>the material is still crowded with zombies, outer space, King Arthur-esque fairy tales, and crime fighters dressed in spandex.
This, however, as a complaint is objectively retarded. Implying any fiction that isn't realistic is automaticaly immature makes the writer look like a fucking cretin and invalidates every right thing he said.
>>63989987
legitimate oldfag here, damn
Why can't adults enjoy fun things?
Why are we expected to be overly mature and boring?
>>63996697
Compare the top box office hits after adjusted for inflation with what's coming out today.
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm
Tastes certainly change but kinda weird that pop culture is evolving this way
>>63995959
It's true tho lol
Star Wars was just fine, you children
If you want to watch a movie get shitted on, watch Jurassic park
>can't hide that fact that the material is still crowded with zombies, outer space, King Arthur-esque fairy tales
Yes, because you can't have good films that aren't set in the present and are about normal everyday stuff. This seems to be his only gripe. He doesn't even complain about stories or structure or messages and meanings or the absense of it. It's just the zombies and the outer space.
If Game of Thrones kept itself closer to the books, it would've actually been an alright counter to the sheltered kids movies. Because ASOIAF loves to shit on them. But no, instead the show became manchild aswell.
>>63990679
>Stranger in a Strange Land or Book of the New Sun
A+ taste nigga
>>63997004
You see ADULTS find mature things fun.
Raffi is for kids once you discover Leonard Cohen, Raffi doesn't have anything to say to you anymore.
>>63985975
So does this mean I shouldn't enjoy fantasy anymore because I'm an adult?
>Ryan Smith is a Chicago-based journalist. He writes for Chicago Tribune’s RedEye and is a frequent contributor to The Onion's A.V. Club's gaming section. His work has also appeared in The Guardian, Chicago-Sun Times, The Escapist and other quality print and online publications. He has previously served as Senior Editor for RedBull's eSports channel and as a general reporter for several daily newspapers.
>gaming
>escapist
>esports
What a surprise, the writer's a hypocritical manchild who's ok with childish things as long as it's things he likes.
>>63989987
Said the guy who believes in an old man in the sky and wrote Narnia. Wow.
>>63989874
confirmed for not having played witcher 3
your choices have real consequences and affect NPCs and side characters and their interactions with you as well as quest and story progression.
welcome to the future of gaming, asshat.
He's right though.
I'm glad I never got into Star Wars and never saw the point of it.
I don't understand why people get too worked up over these things.
Star Wars was a decent movie and it introduced Sci fi opera to the masses but it was terribly flawed even with the new ones and with a greater budget.
>Dune gets butchered by Herbert's Son
>Simpsons stopped being witty and subtle and turned to slapstick and sarcasm as humor
It's bound to happen. Things degenerate and lose quality after a while and especially if a new generation takes over the production. Just move on and stop supporting the product.
They can muddy up the new releases but they'll never take away the enjoyment the show/movie/book had in your childhood.
My parents just saw it and hated the shit out of the movie for the nostalgia wanking. Really warmed my heart. Too bad most people aren't bright enough to see it for what it is.
>>63985975
>EVERY PIECE OF MEDIA HAS TO BE GROUNDED IN REALITY OR IT'S FOR CHILDREN
>>63998183
You should enjoy good fantasy as opposed to adolescent fantasy.
I remember Big Fish (2003) being a good fantasy movie.
Books are usually good for this. I recommend Neil Gaiman's American Gods, and John Crowley's Little, Big.
>>63987742
Only nobody said that. I'm sure the writer wouldn't bash Bladerunner just because it had scifi elements.
>>63988003
How does it feel to be the sheeple these movies are intended to create?
>>63988262
He didn't say valuable, just "sophisticated". Can't you notice the ""?
>>63987315
this
>>63985975
The same could be said of fucking sports, man. As long as the person's productive, who gives a shit what they're into?
>>64000075
A cynical asshole self-congratulating couple produced a cynical asshole self-congratulating child. Big surprise.
>>63987315
the Arthurian tales and the medieval tales about heroic knights who are perfectly good is what inspired don quixote, it was literally a parody of medieval tales like arthur
doesnt mean its bad but still.
>>63988693
remember brah
>don't be bitter
:>
>No book is really worth reading at the age of ten which is not equally – and often far more – worth reading at the age of fifty and beyond.
>>63990656
based Guinness
>>63987129
>But these movies make more money overseas than in domestic
that might be because the rest of the world is a little bit bigger than america. maybe. will have to double check my calculations.
>>63987315
is that dude fucking with his platemail on
the fuck
>>63985975
He's just mad that his genre (noir, presumably) isn't in the spotlight anymore even though it's more mature for being boring and mundane.
>>63987381
1. Westerns were mainly just Saturday matinee fare made for young boys
2. There were so many because they cost next to nothing to make.
>>63987468
Was literally the Simpsons of it's day and everyone born in the preceding 50 years would have been in the target audience.
>>63987090
>>63985975
People loved films in the past which were sort of kids mobies, like Mary Poppins and Wizard of Oz as examples.
Cinema is entertainment, even adults like to regress to children, its a chance for some escapism and have some childlike wonder for a brief period in their miserable stressful lives.
>>63988850
What's your point? Yes, Flintstones was a more adult sitcom that it even had cigarette ads. But from 1963 onward, it's always been marketed for kids in every way, shape and form.
I'm not sure how old you are, but the Flintstones were still big with kids in the 80s/90s. If it wasn't, there would be no reason for the movie to be made especially after the 30+ writers it went through to happen.
>>63987513
Daredevil is for edgy teenagers who think they're too mature for Spider Man and that the Kingpin is actually a compelling character and not a mega-autist. Jessica Jones is for college aged women doing women's studies degrees and spending their time writing tumblr posts about how problematic The Avengers is. Neither are truly sophisticated adult fare.
>huurrr duurrr this or that movie are for children
Well not shit. Commercial movies aren't art, they are entertainment. Sometimes very rarely, those two things overlap but most of the times they don't.
Newsflash: people don't go out at night and pays $10 or more to see art. But they sure as hell do it for entertainment. Artistic movies are boring, fucking deal with it. How pedantic do you have to be to expect the masses to go see some 2deep4u minimalistic shit and claim they're childish if they don't?
Same reason why the world cup is more popular than the chess championship. It's the difference between a musical and a magic show. Do you know how many cities in the world even offer a wide range of musicals for you to enjoy? TWO! New York and London. Why? Because it's a niche and it doesn't please most people. You know how many cities offer magic shows constantly as part of their entertainment? A whole lot of them.
As a rule of thumb, if a film has a worldwide release, it is childish by definition. Prove me wrong, you can't.
>b-b-but muh old style cinema
>m-muh Ben-Hur, t-that wasn't childish was it?
Yes it was. It was filled with eye-catching action sequences and historic inaccuracies to make it more pleasing and understandable. Now fuck off and go stick a dragon dildo up your arse.
>>63985975
There's nothing wrong with keeping a little bit of your childhood interests, it prevents you from becoming a jaded ass who takes himself too seriously. But I agree there is a limit.
I'm 24 years old and I meet guys who are pushing thirty who wear Naruto headbands and can't shut up about Sanic.
For me, I love Star Wars, but I put aside a lot of my more intense obsessions with it when I turned 17. I might still collect some things here and there, but I believe there are far more important things to focus on than stuff like that and it's really depressing to see someone my age or older who has nothing else going on besides a dead end job and obsessions with fictional characters.
>People on this board, as a whole, haven't moved on from puerile entertainment designed for the ignorant masses, to the more refined medium of anime
>>63985975
Bullshit. You can call Shakespeare
>King Arthur-esque fairy tales
, so fucking what?
>>63987381
But westerns were 'grounded' ficiton, real issues, fictional stories, taught you how to be a man.
this is a great thread /tv/. i am proud
>>63989686
>Kafka, Albert Camus, Nietzsche
Entry level.
>Kant
Good, but dated. Philosophy concepts came a long way since him.
>>63989510
>Like if Kurosawa's movies were released nowadays, people would talk about them, but they wouldn't nearly have the kind of cultural penetration that they did years ago.
Fuck you. Kurosawa was always thinking man's action movies, and made with today's tech, they would be hits just like in the past. Hell, look at Fury road and Dark knight which followed the same idea and their reception, and it is nowhere near Kurosawa's level or even ambition.
>>63993992
>The irony doesnt even occur to you
He said, while posting a bee frog on 4chan.
>>63988081
What's the matter? Afraid the cool kids will bully you on the playground?
>>63985975
This is the most pathetic shit I've ever read, this is the kind of shit people who've read a couple of classics and watched a few eastern European films say. From my experience with people so far, the more a person is into all kinds of high-brow stuff the more they enjoy low-brow stuff as well, the people who bash on things for being "childish" are always the dumbass pseuds.
>>64000170
American Gods is adolescent as fuck, you fucking manchild
>>63985975
Damn that's pretentious as fuck.
>>63989686
Wow look at this entry level bitch, only goes to show that people who hate on genre fiction shit are mostly plebs themselves.
>>63985975
fucking GOTTEM
>>63990916
Good bait, the end bit made it a bit too obvious but good satire nonetheless
>>63985975
Pretty stupid really. Seems like he's just trying to pick shit out because it's sci-fi or fantasy when half of the shitty military films out there are basically adults reliving playing as a military man as a kid.
The kind of people who support this view are probably the same people who thought our culture was being degraded because a black guy got cast in a main role.
