>there are people who actually prefer the over-choreographed dance """"""""""fights"""""""""" of the prequels that went on forever before anyone would even get hurt with seizure-inducing greenscreen CGI everywhere over the desperate hack and slash duels in TFA amid actual environments
I thought /tv/ was supposed to be patrician.
Where did you all get such shit taste?
The prequel fights were between young highly trained Jedi in their prime. They had a code of honor and class and style and all that crap.
Every fight after those was pure hack and slash emotion.
>>63903835
They were fun as hell to watch, but they're are not better.
>>63903835
Those "people" are dumb millennials. They're easily distracted by shiny things.
>still no RAID/John Wick-tier fights
YGSIU JJ-san
>>63903835
D-Darth Maul looks cool! That makes him an amazingly well written and deep, just a perfect thought provoking villain.
So what If he was killed off in the movie and was literally a throw away villain who had 5 minutes of screen time. HE LOOKED COOL!
Not every fight has to be emotionally driven. just like real life
>>63903911
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0mUVY9fLlw
>>63903835
One is a sophisticated artform performed by trained practitioners following a moral code.
The other is a bunch of kids experiencing battle for the first time, with new or unstable weapons.
It's pottery.
>>63903932
Was expecting something to go down on Han's ship when the Raid guys showed up. Those corridors would have been perfect.
Fucking low IQ pleb.
Lucas mirror ours perception of youth with this style of fighting. He is fighting off the authority figures(Kurosawa, Mizo) and what they did with swordsmanship in Japanese art house cinema. If you're too blind to see that then maybe film(or even this board) is not for you.
>supposed to be patrician
I take it that it's your first day. One look at the catalog proves this place is as anti-art as /sp/eddit.
Yeah except Daisy looked like a little girl trying to hit a pinata
>>63903835
Completely different styles and yeah I thought they were more exciting.
>>63903835
Good thing about tpm fight
>amazing performance by ray park
>overall the fight make sense except for le high ground
Bad
>gallagher and neeson look like retards
Thats why you shouldny get non action stars to do fight scenes
>>63903835
>WAAAAAAH! THEY CHOREOGRAPHED THE LIGHTSABER DUEL, MOMMY. MUH ORIGINALS DIDNT HAVE THAT. THEY HIT LIKE MAD MEN. THEY DIDNT DO THIS DANCING SHIT. *takes autism pills*
Prequel haters in a nut shell
>>63903835
...But with lightsabers.
Am I asking for too much?
>>63904166
>THEY CHOREOGRAPHED THE LIGHTSABER DUEL
Because fights in real life are of course intensely choreographed beforehand.
The prequels had lightsaber dances with accidents.
>>63904166
see
>>63903966-
This is my go-to “shut the fuck up, prequelfag” video, Im glad another anon posted it already.
your complaint is that they put too much effort into it rather than some marvelized nonsense
please read what you write before you post holy fuck
>>63904307
its fucking star wars
do you unironically have tism?
>>63904307
Except movies are. And this is a movie.
>>63903835
/tv/ is literally the only group that dislikes the new movie.
In case you needed any more proof that this board is nothing but a bunch of contrarian Linkin Park 'daddy never loved me' teenagers, then there you go.
>>63904461
>contrarian Linkin Park 'daddy never loved me' teenagers
Wouldn't those people love Kylo Ren?
>People actually thought the lightsaber fight between Yoda and Dookie was bad
>>63904461
If you use the word "contrarian," you're literally an idiot. It's an invented concept by idiots with reddit sensibilities who are too fragile to deal with criticism of mediocre media that has widespread appeal.
It's a troubling manifestation of millennials' mental weakness. Seriously, the only people who would even entertain any "argument" involving the concept of being "contrarian" are weak, lazy idiots who can't deal with criticism substantively.
If it bothers you that much that people criticize mediocre mass-marketed work designed to appeal to the lowest common denominator, like Star Wars, Breaking Bad, pop music, etc., you should find a safe bubble and stay there. Or kill yourself.
>https://4ch.be/_/search/filename/1430717453923/
>low IQ /v/edditor
Oh that makes sense
>>63903835
second kenobi's dance moves. God damn they were annoying.
>>63903835
This post doesn't have the high ground
>>63904495
No, because he's too obviously contrarian.
Contrarians only like other contrarians that aren't loud and vocal about being contrarian but are still contrarian.
Contrarians these days are too hip for Linkin Park even, or anything that's popular on the radio. The most mainstream they might go is vaporwave or nightcore.
>>63903835
master jedi fighting master sith yeah the prequels wins on all counts.
>>63903835
Anyone who claims anything positive about the prequels is without a doubt millenials or from reddit.
Or just trolling.
Ignore them.
>>63904495
Kylo Ren hits too close to home for those people, so no.
Anyone who claims anything negative about the prequels is without a doubt millenials or from reddit.
These people have no opinions of their own.
Ignore them.
and vader was never at master level.
>>63903969
Another way.
One is old men with stiff robotic limbs and like you said, young unexperienced kids, compared to against literal fucking knights.
>>63904524
Is this some kind of meta joke? Because you literally just said that contrarianism isn't a thing AND 'reddit sensibilities' in the same sentence.
Grow up, you fucking faggot.
>>63904307
>Because fights in real life are of course intensely choreographed beforehand.
Movies =/= Real life, you retard
>>63904706
Anakin sat on the Jedi Council but was never called a Master due to political reasons.
>>63904702
>Look at me being a unique snowflake who likes bad things just to be different from my older siblings
You are awesome.
Just wait until you tell your parents you are an atheist.
>>63903835
prequel fights were between masters of their craft that had some sort of understanding and appreciation of 'truths' associated with the force and its history and culture. so, yeah, people would study and specialize in certain fighting styles (like karate) that was either passed down or studied from warriors before. fighters would also know what to look for when fighting the other person and adjust accordingly. fights were more or less 'fair' or 'balanced' that way. your fights were strategic and moves were calculated. then anakin comes along and fucks everything up and throws his god damn emotion and weak will into the mix which wouldnt have been a problem if it werent for order 66. when he finally snaps on mustafar his entire style goes completely aggressive and careless. leading to choppy burny time. and again, when he executes ben thats all it was. no style necessary, just murdering a man who yielded. then throughout the OT you have luke who has no idea wtf hes doing and so you have yoda trying to teach him all about the 'balance' and so he attempts to use that until he chops of vaders hand out of aggression when not 5 minutes earlier he was all moral about never turning to the dark side. blah blah im tired of typing this.
>>63904769
he never when through the trials.
>>63904622
If you're a true Star Wars fan who actually cares about the universe that Lucas and co. created, then you can appreciate the in depth lore added by the prequels while ignoring the schlock-y bits.
If you're a popcorn eating numbskull who only likes Star Wars because it's popular, has nice merchandise, and SPACE BATTLEZ, then you'll probably like TFA.
You see, the original trilogy was the best simply because they not only had exciting space action, but political and emotional drama as well. The prequels went too political (and thus too "nerdy" for most fans), while the new trilogy seems to want the Transformers audience with its unrelenting action and *wink wink* jokes. All it's missing is Megan Fox revealing herself.
>>63903911
>>63903969
>>63904801
Fuck this stupid retcon excuse. What would George have said if I - III were made in 1977 and IV - VI in 1999?
>>63904835
Mace, Yoda and Obi-Wan all acknowledge him as a council member.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sufkBRdROr4
1:20.
Why do plebs with no taste of their own think they can post directly at their superiors?
>>63904956
and don't give him the rank of Master.
As shitty as the prequels were, I never got the hate for the lightsaber fighter considering they were between trained masters during the height of the jedi order.
>>63904890
>If you're a true Star Wars fan who actually cares about the universe that Lucas and co. created
I'm not. The "lore" is trash for children.
I'm a film fan.
The prequels are poorly made garbage.
The originals were the best because they were well crafted childrens entertainment and for older people at the time contained amazing visual imagination and technical craftmanship and lots of nice cinematic homages.
The trilogy are well executed theme park rides. The fact you compare to them ineptly made and lazy films like Transformers shows you don't know what you are talking about.
The fact that you think Star Wars has an interesting "lore" and story shows you are a mouth breathing retard.
>>63905008
Obi-Wan tells him he's too close to Palpatine at 2:50, there you go. Political reasons.
>>63905031
Because they looked fucking stupid. Like something out of a shitty Hong Kong kung-fu movie.
The originals looked like something out of Kurosawa.
Get some taste you fucking millenial faggot.
>>63905031
Because they didn't actually look like that. They looked like faggots dancing.
>>63905066
>Political reasons
the emperor put him there that's why they call him young.
>>63903835
Hello reddit!
>>63905037
>le Star Wars is for fully grown and mature gentlemen like I am
>le prequel hate meme
Hello reddit!
>>63903911
So when Obi-Wan lept out of the pit, Maul was under the Jedi-Sith code of honor to just sit there with his jaw dropped while he got bisected?
When Dooku blocked Anakin high, was Anakin obligated to say "Well Dooku, that block was worth 5 points, now you can amputate one of my limbs"?
Were the Jedi Masters in Sheev's office under the Jedi honor code to just sit there and fucking die after Sheev executed a 10 point spinning jump lunge?
Because that's exactly what happened, those duels were retarded, totally forced choreography.
I don't really like the marvel style duels either though, in the OT you take one hit and you're fucking done. Luke grazed one of Vader's shoulder pads once but other than that you get hit, you lose a limb or you die (same is true in prequels with one exception). In the new duels they cut the fuck out of each other. like they're hitting with normal swords or something. Rey scores a shitload of hits on Ren and he's still okay, he also got fucking shot by a bowcaster and was A-Okay, and knicked by fucking Finn in the shoulder.
But the overall feel of TFA choreography was much more like ROTJ which was much better.
>>63905268
>marvel style duels
keep acting like a dumb ass with movie that came out before the marvel ones, it's sad and funny.
>>63904925
He had the plot written for episodes 1-6, he has stated many times that he chose to do 4-6 first because the technology wasn't there to meet what went on in 1-3.
>>63904622
youre taking an accurate characterization of TFA fans and flipping it around on the prequels absolute madman!
but a completely unoriginal and reddit tier strategy nice try
The problems with the lightsaber duels in the prequels is that they happened MUCH too frequently. Basically, the two major and only real duels in the original trilogy were so beloved by people that Lucas felt like he had to have them happen ever time a lightsaber was brandished. They went from being key events used to highlight the struggles between the two opposing main characters, to what is essentially one of those show fights you'd see at modern medieval fairs.
As such, the duels lost their impact and meaning, and no amount of over the top choreographed action could make them carry as much weight as they once used to.
>>63903835
Ep 1 fight was cool, but should have had:
>darth maul actively and aggressively attacking kenobi and quigonn in a way that displays how much of a rageful evil fuck he is.
>darth maul making vocalizations, like 2 or 3 snarling or screaming remark (threat, taunt, rebuff). Imagine how cool it would be for him to taunt the jedi while they are separated by the force field.
>jedi mind link between master and apprentice which is shown via chorography and expressive editing, not so much a superpower but more like an innate sense of understanding in combat
>darth maul is killed in a brutally fucked up way by obiwan who then regrets and is haunted by the kill
>directed by anyone else
>>63904524
If you actually had arguments to back up your statements then no one would call you contrarian for disagreeing because you'd probably be genuinely holding that point of view.
However this is 4chan so chances are you are just saying something you think is unpopular to get a rise out of people.
>>63905356
In 1976, he was still working on his draft of Star Wars. Sooner or later he came up with Journal of the Whillis: The Star Wars as relayed by Mace Windy or some shit like that. It was ALWAYS just a rough draft of Episode IV and no more. He is a liar. He once said he called ESB Episode V just to give it the illusion of being in the middle of a long saga.
He has claimed different things throughout the years, but you are stupid if you really believe that George was so omniscient, he knew he could wait 25 years to make the movies with superior technology.
>>63904264
>random slashes and lunges not even aimed at any target being parried: The Sword Fight
Kill yourself.
>>63905412
reserving lightsaber duels for
>le ebin big moment xD (btw screenshot retweet and dance off xDdD)
is literally marvel tier, fuck off with your non-criticism. not to mention if you actually had seen the movie it would make canonical sense for the prequels to have frequent lightsaber duels
>>63903835
BEN's retarded twirls destroy your argument.
>>63905598
He was doing them to show off. Arrogant faggots do that in bouts IRL.
>>63905549
Directors hold on to scripts for decades. James Cameron did it for Avatar, does it really blow your mind that much?
Lucas might be shit at writing and directing but he had a vision.
>>63905638
moot
>>63905341
>terms cant be created after a movie to convey a message
what are words shit lord
>>63905461
are you illiterate?
>>63904761
They were going for a more real and gritty tone of the originals rather than the prequels, and the lightsaber fights reflected that.
Deal with it.
>>63905680
Hiro
>>63905697
not what you're doing
>>63905652
George Lucas did not do this. Read any book about Star Wars from before 1999. The old men with lightsaber explanation is pure ret-conning.
>>63903944
You mean like Boba Fett?
>>63904461
I like it, it's a good movie, but it's not great. It's probably my least favorite Star Wars movie
>>63905843
It's all he said she said bullshit.
Lucas said in the prequels the fights were faster and more acrobatic because these were masters of the lightsaber. The originals were slow because its been over 20 years and all the masters are dead or old.
If that's too much for you to handle then move on to another film series.
>>63903966
GOOD THING WE WATCH MOVIES AT 1/3rd THE SPEED AND EDIT PARTS OUT
Holy fuck, do you slow down every single fight in every movie to make sure it's realistic?
>>63905037
>The fact that you think Star Wars has an interesting "lore" and story shows you are a mouth breathing retard.
Gee guys, guess we should just accept a 2 hours of action without any fucking point and throw out the hundreds of EU books/video games (thanks Disney)
Mission impossible sounds like a better movie for you to watch, not star wars.
>>63905412
>Hundreds of Jedi with lightsabers
>Lets just save them for the epic moment
It's like you guys are trying so hard to grasp at straws. Pretty much confirms you guys just spouting shit out of your ass.
>>63905268
best reasoning I've seen behind the obi-wan/maul getting cut in half looking retarded was that lucas "slowed it down" so the viewer could make sense of what was happening, in test screenings it was faster and audiences weren't sure what happened. No idea if it's true or not
>>63905923
the video in this thread has him saying that they were done slower at first because light sabers were meant to be heavy
>>63906083
Not the guy you're responding to, but as someone with absolutely no swordfighting experience I can admit this fight looked pretty good to me on my first TPM viewing.
Windu vs Palpatine in RotS though, even as a total noob and on my first viewing, that fight looked horribly fake and choreographed.
>>63906462
Part of that is just because it's an obviously CG old man fighting Samuel Jackson.
>>63903971
You and me both Anon, we're the only two who got excited when Mad Dog asked for his payment :(
>>63906462
The thing about the last fight between Obi and Darth vader in EP3 was there was no stunt doubles. These guys actually trained with master swordsmen for months ahead and did the whole fight themselves. It truly was a great fight, entertaining the whole way. I also think the actors deserve some respect for the works and effort the put into this. For people to slow down the film x times, and then criticize it is ridiculous. I would love to see them do a better job, but I am willing to bet they would just hurt themselves.
And just like ANH, there was lots of emotion into the fight in ROTS. This was the mast and pupil who fought alongside each other during the clone wars, very emotional fight.
>>63903911
>prequels had swag
>originals had class
>>63903835
The prequel fights were a nice change that fit the motif of the prequel better. Swordfighting was turned almost into art with those overcomplex moves, something for a "more civilized" time. The same way OT fights fit the OT, a more savage and less refined way of fighting for more decadent times
>>63906262
They ignite them when they hear a fucking noise.
>>63905555
spoiler, that is not how sword fighting works sometimes aiming for the killshot will get you killed instead. you sometimes need to bypass or hit your opponents weapon out of the way and open him up for the kill.
>>63903835
The way people complain about prequels fight, you'd assume it just people jumping around like they're on trampoline, when it was just a faster version of what we had in OT. If Darth Vader's armor was a little bit more practical, they'd be faster as well. If he could for example move his shoulders and actually lift his saber, not just swing from his elbows. Not to mention how all the exposing your back to the enemy thing happens in originals too. Hamill does it. Guinness does it. The only one who doesn't do it is Vader. I guess he already had enough problems with peripheral vision as it is. Hamill also jumps around. It was just shot differently cause of the limitations of the time. The whole "not even trying to kill each other" thing is present there as well. It's the foundation of theatrical fighting. You can't really expect McGregor or Neeson to tray to actually crack someone's skull. Most of the time they just meet their swords halfway from each others bodies like in every movie swordfight in history and only attempting "kill" swings when the other guy ducks half a second ahead. Like that moment in ESB when Luke rolls to Vader's left and than Vader hits the railing to his right even though Hamill moved in the opposite direction a whole second ago. But hey it's okay when they do it in ESB cause muh emotional resonance.
Crying about western fencing being left behind, when it was never the foundation of the bloody thing is also bs. It was always flashy kendo. Hamill says he trained kendo for ESB.
And I'm sure someone already posted that slowed down version of TPM duel, but when you slow down any movie fight it's obvious they're faking it. That final salvo that Luke does in ROTJ is great cause of emotions involved and music, but if you slow it down like that autist did, you'll see that Hamill barely tries to hit Vader and just flails around like he's trying to hit some invisible pinata 10 inches above Vader's head.
>>63912364
And I love that faggots who love this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjhJcm-lpjc
complain about prequels.
Prequels are actually more grounded in its chorepgraphy then this or most of eastern martial arts movies. But, I guess we have to complain cause it's Lucas.
>>63912379
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjhJcm-lpjc
The guy that did that also did the choreography for The Force Awakens.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzU68DEPw1w
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2432430/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cr1123
>>63903835
>>63903966
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIefj6dOhnM
>>63905268
I think Ren was wearing some kind of armour under his clothes.
It's the only thing that makes sense.
>>63905031
yup, the lightsaber fights were much better in the prequels then anything of the other movies.
>>63903835
Yoda's fights were good in prequels. I'd say that they even added to his personality. Otherwise, you are right.
>>63903944
>completely not like m-muh Boba Fett!
>>63903932
>raid fights
Those are also intensely choreographed and do not feel realistic in any sense at all
It vexes me that people praise this movie as some sort of action masterpiece. Its just a fucking kung fu movie. Put those guys in a fight with literally any american dindu and they will die like little bitches.
>>63903944
>So what If he was killed off in the movie
anon...
>>63903911
>code of honor and class
fucking kek
>>63905031
Because they weren't interesting - there was no emotion behind it and they were over choreographed to the point where it didn't even feel like there was a threat
>>63903835
The fights were the only good thing from those shitty flicks.
GUYS THE PREQUELS WERE BAD THEREFORE THE FORCE AWAKENS IS GOOD
THANK YOU FOR THIS GREAT THREAD OP
Wow what amazing fighting!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0mUVY9fLlw
>>63906205
These buttmad E.U. fags.
The E.U. is trash. You have to be a fucking retard to enjoy anything about the E.U. or the Prequels.
This is fact.
>>63907156
The episode 3 fight was pure shit.
>swinging from vines
>jumping on little platforms like a video game
>"I HAVE THE HIGH GROUND"
If they trained wither master swordsmen for months, those were months totally wasted.
>>63912587
>Its just a fucking kung fu movie.
I take it you hate kung fucking movies also, fucking kill yourself faggot.
>>63903835
>Prequels
>Saber fights show skill, where a single miss step and you lose an arm of your life
>Dark Side users aren't to be taken lightly and will fuck even a Jedi Knight up
>Sequels
>LOL, DUDE, ANYONE CAN USE A SABER NOW!
>If you get bit by a saber it's like being hit by a burning wooden club. You'll get a scorch mark and a scar and that's all
>Fight depends purely on plot armor and not who is more skilled, with someone killing a seasoned Sith/Dark Jedi apprentice the first time they even pick up a saber
D.U.D.E
.
U
.
D
.
E
>>63903966
The same exact thing happen in Empire strike back
Vader just randomly wave around his lightdick and hit random items instead of Luke
>>63905084
We're sorry you take your movies way too fucking seriously that you can't enjoy fun martial arts cinema
>>63912631
>Because they weren't interesting - there was no emotion behind it
I don't get this. Do you expect every fight in Star Wars to be something extremely personal? Also, there isn't much choreography to the Original Trilogy fights at all. Saying "it's like Kurosawa" or whatever is almost an insult to japanese samurai films which usually had much better choreography.
>>63911955
Don't bring common sense into this thing. Not now.
>>63912706
it was entertaining. This movie is entertainment and it's purpose is to entertain.
>>63912817
>Do you expect every fight in Star Wars to be something extremely personal?
That's LITERALLY what every lightsaber fight in the original trilogy is
>>63912864
>That's LITERALLY what every lightsaber fight in the original trilogy is
>Therefore, this is what every other lightsaber fight in every other movie should be
>>63905638
But, when they do it in the prequels it's bad.
Flourishes are a part of swordfighting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBTtq2Gzm6w
>B-but they're trained knights, they're supposed to be good, you don't understand, y-you don't care about how it reflects the lore, and-
They're fucking BORING, holy shit.
>>63912817
>Do you expect every fight in Star Wars to be something extremely personal?
Yes because then the fights ACTUALLY MEAN SOMETHING.
They actually mean something. I actually care if the fights are personal, because if the film has done it's job up until that point, I'm actually interested in who wins that fight.
>>63906205
The EU was never canon.
Stop acting like Disney executives turned up at your house and burned your precious books.
>>63912958
And the prequels were over-designed messes, especially the saber fights.
>>63912914
Why was there a lightsaber fight in The Phantom Menace? How did it add to the plot? What did Darth Maul do besides be the bad guy for the obligatory lightsaber fight?
Do you understand anything about narratives or are you just wanting to be distracted by flashing lights?
>>63903835
SWTOR trailers>>>PT>TFA>OT
>>63903835
I'll never stop liking the dance fights of the prequels (particularly because they're reminiscent of old kung fu movies), but there's no denying that the saber combat in Awakens was infinitely better and more satisfying.
>>63912964
Nope.
Fights have to look cool.
Im here for entertainment
>>63912706
>swinging from vines
I hope the ghost of Errol Flynn violates your mother tonight.
>>63904307
It's fine if that's your preference but this isn't real life so that's not a valid criticism you autisimol failure of a human being
>>63912964
Fuck off.
Not every fight in movie history was about fathers fighting sons or whatever. Don't give me this bullshit about you caring either. How little of fiction to do you enjoy then if everything has to be a feud between family members that escalates into a bloodbath?
>>63913018
yeeee
SWTOR trailers>>>PT>TFA>OT>TCW/Rebels
>>63903914
You realize, you're probably a millennial if you were born anywhere starting from 1989, right?
>>63912986
>Why was there a lightsaber fight in The Phantom Menace?
Because it is Star wars. You can not make the movie in the iconic franchise without its most iconic element.
>How did it add to the plot?
It added the whole sith part to the plot and revealed the "phantom menace". From the moment when sith warrior confronted jedi openly, shit stopped being just local conflict which jedi were sent to resolve and got serious.
>What did Darth Maul do besides be the bad guy for the obligatory lightsaber fight?
Not much, but it is not like he needs to or meant to do much.
>Do you understand anything about narratives
Yes i do. More than you, fucking filthy neckbeard. Now get back to parroting shitlettermedia's three hour long "NOT MUUUH".
>>63913172
Yes, but he is, you see, a CLEVER millenial! At least he sees himself as one.
>>63912864
And it deserves credit for that. But to expect that in the prequels which take place in an era where the lightsaber is a much more common weapon is silly. Not every fight in an action adventure saga needs to be driven by this super personal things between characters because not all fights in real life are like that, heck most probably aren't. The lightsaber battles in the PT, with the exception of Anakin and Obi Wan, take place in a very different context and they work within that context. This complaint about "blah blah blah mah emotional tensions and deep character connections," is less a valid criticism and more of just complaining that the PT fights don't take place within the same contexts which basically devolves to petty "this movie is different and I don't like it" arguments
With the Anakin and Obi-Wan fight though, I never felt a lack of "emotional tension" and it kicked many elements of the PT's saber fights to an almost extreme degree.
>>63912964
You're retarded. If it were up to you, we couldn't watch any WW2 movies without every main character having a personal vendetta against an individual Nazi commander who personally killed his father or brother or some shit. We could never have a movie where our good ol boys are just fighting against the general evil of the Nazi regime that's oppressing Europe because it's the right thing to do.
>>63913198
>Because it is Star wars. You can not make the movie in the iconic franchise without its most iconic element.
All this proves is that the movie didn't need to be made. If you're including an iconic element 'because it has to be there' and not because it has any relevance to the script, you've done something wrong
>>63913172
the word doesnt have a defined and agreed upon meaning, cuklord.
>>63904307
Fights in real life don't last for 20 minutes like they do in movies. Many fights don't last a minute, since most times whoever gets the first, or the best hit will gain the advantage.
>>63913261
But that context isn't interesting and us as viewers have little to no investment in the fights unless you are superficial enough as to think 'go good guys don't let the bad guys win'
>>63913279
>All this proves is that the movie didn't need to be made.
Nigga, its plot was made before ANH.
>If you're including an iconic element 'because it has to be there'
...then it is almost like you are making movie in that universe and not in some other one.
>>63912986
>Why was there a lightsaber fight in The Phantom Menace? How did it add to the plot? What did Darth Maul do besides be the bad guy for the obligatory lightsaber fight?
The lightsaber fight is taking place within a wider context of a fight against evil. Darth Maul is a Sith, the counterpart to the Jedi and he's spent the movie helping enable the Trade Federation's oppression of Naboo. The Sith are the ancient enemies of the Jedi and this is probably the first lightsaber fight in some time that has taken place between the two forces for light/dark. I'm not saying Phantom Menace shouldn't have gone more into the Sith, it should have and that's a flaw of the movie, but it doesn't completely remove that cosmic element to the fight.
Also, there's a huge shift in tone between the fight between Qui Gon and Obi-wan dueling Maul together and after Obi-Wan sees Qui Gon killed. The last half of the fight has always stood out for people and has often been the favorite part of many who enjoyed that fight not just because of Ray Park and McGregor's choreography but the emotional tone is different as Obi-Wan's fight style becomes more aggressive.
>>63913261
>With the Anakin and Obi-Wan fight though, I never felt a lack of "emotional tension" and it kicked many elements of the PT's saber fights to an almost extreme degree.
It also went on for way too long, much longer than it needed to go on for to convey the point of the character emotions in that situation
>>63913068
>comparing the prequels to anything errol flynn ever did
Hey Anon. Fuck you, man.
>>63913126
Literal tism. Please read what you write before you post and reflect on it
>>63913327
Yeah, like that guy mentioned, WWII context isnt interesting at all.
>>63913338
Why according to you can't a story exist in the star wars universe without a lightsaber duel between jedi and sith exist? Does every single event in the entire star wars universe inherently center around jedi and sith?
>>63912858
>it was entertaining
No, it really wasn't.
>>63913399
You cannot compare something with a real life historical setting to a work of pure fiction and treat it as a valid comparison
>>63913392
>fuck, i'm out of arguments
>better throw -tism in before it's too late!
>add "literal" just to be sure
>that'll show him!
>>63913392
I'm just glad that you care enough to respond. It actually means something then. Even personal maybe.
>>63913355
Even as an 11 year old I understood it was a big fucking deal for Darth Maul to fight Qui Gon and Obi. The big fight was the Sith revealing itself to the Jedi. I thank TPM for being made solely for that fight, it had emotion and an overall tone that Ep 2 never had and the Anakin v Obi fight was so mismanaged it left me empty rather then edge of my seat like the Maul fight.
>>63913136
TCW fights are better than any of the PT fights
>>63913338
>it's star wars, it has to have lightsaber fights!
>unironically believing this and using it to excuse an absolute cardboard cutout villain who only exists so the movie can have a lightsaber fight
>literally being this shallow
Are you 10?
>>63913327
Don't feed me this pseudo-intellectual crap. The original Star Wars hardly had any development of the Empire as a faction and there was certainly very little moral ambiguity to the Empire throughout all three films besides "they're evil, they hurt people, they talk with british accents and they're the bad guys." It still works and people never felt less invested in the fight between the "good guys" and the bad guys there.
Heck, many people hated the Expanded Universe for retroactively making the Empire less fucking evil because it created Imperial characters who were likable and portrayed many Imperial supporters as normal people.
>>63913358
I won't argue that it went on too long and Lucas could have toned down things. I just don't feel like it severely damaged the fight's other merits.
I think when it comes to the PT lightsaber fights, many would agree QGJ and Obi vs. Maul is a standout, because it is.
However, the rest are just garbage. I can't believe nobody has brought up both Dooku fights in episode II. No wait, I can believe it because they're both garbage.
"Oh Imma cut your arm off now and I guess that's it"
Seriously you guys are DEFENDING Yoda jumping like a retard?
>>63903835
> talking about TFA
> being patrician
pick one plebs
>>63913480
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VV7fjNZcQdE
kek
no
>>63913355
Bro you cant explain things to redditards that dont involve memes, it goes over their heads
>>63913526
The Yoda fight is kind of stupid, but I still like the one between Obi-Wan/Anakin and Dooku in Episode 2.
>>63913408
>story
It can exist without it, sure. There are even examples of it.
>a story about how Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader that focuses also on the fate of Jedi order as an organisation and the fate of Obi-wan
Nope. Well it can be imagined, but why shouldn't it have lightsaber combat? >>63913355 summed it up well, 'cept for the tone shift in 2nd half - the choreography stayed pretty much the same and that's a letdown. The only one who had something new about him told by choreography in the prequels was Yoda.
>>63912745
In a dumb way, but this sums it up pretty much
From now on lightsabers are hardly a deadly weapon and skill doesnt matter
>>63913611
That was the biggest blue balling fight in the entire Star Wars anthology. Obi gets gimped by two glancing blows, then throw shis saber to Anakin. So you go "Oh fuck yeah akimbo saber wielding Anakin!" which lasts for about 4 seconds and be comes an amputee and send into a force coma.
What followed had me huddling into my seat. Watching a CGI Yoda flip around like a fucking midget on PCP.
>>63913495
>The original Star Wars hardly had any development of the Empire as a faction and there was certainly very little moral ambiguity to the Empire throughout all three films besides "they're evil, they hurt people, they talk with british accents and they're the bad guys." It still works and people never felt less invested in the fight between the "good guys" and the bad guys there.
And that's why the lightsaber fights were only between Vader and Sheev, two characters who had emotional relevance to luke
What point are you even trying to make? Because it doesn't really address the argument. It's undeniable that all of the lightsaber duels in the OT have emotional relevance to the characters partaking in it, which in turn makes it more interesting because the characters have an actual REASON to fight besides 'I'm good and you're bad we need to fight' and they put some actual emotion into how they fight instead of it being a perfectly choreographed gymnastics routine
>>63913408
>Why according to you can't a story exist in the star wars universe without a lightsaber duel between jedi and sith exist?
In the Star Wars universe? Sure. There are plenty of stories in the expanded universe where Jedi and Sith don't play any direct role and it's just blasters and normal melee weapons. But to think there could have been a Star Wars movie without some lightsaber duel sequence is ridiculous and those dorks at RLM would have been complaining a lot more about TPM if it didn't have one.
>>63913480
They are too stiff in a way that even Vader vs Old Ben wasn't. They all boil down to characters do to two then stand in a lock watching each other for a second or two. Like t moves too fast then they hit the pause button for soke intense staring the fast-forward, then pause and so on.
The only one that was nicely done and fluid was the last Kenobi/Anakin vs Dooku.
Also, Stalemate: The TV Show
Like what was the point of having all those Kenobi vs Griveous fights or Anakin vs Dooku?
When I watched ROTS I assumed it was the first time they see Dooku since Geonosis. And the fisrt time they meet Griveous EVER. But, no it turns out he and Anakin had a fight every two fucking weeks and it would always end with Dooku escaping or something.
For all the lightsbaer swinging on that show like 4 people actually die in 6 seasons. Griveous kills like one Jedi and the Jedi was like a 12 year old apprentice. Dooku kills no one.
>>63913526
>Seriously you guys are DEFENDING Yoda jumping like a retard?
Yes. In the fight, he is probably the most aggressive of the jedi. He rarely defending himself with a lightsaber, he prefers quich change of position and attack in the every opening he sees. And that goes completely fine with his character, because
>Do. Or do not. There is no try.
In the fight espeially.
>>63913705
>characters do to two then stand
*characters do TWO MOVES then stand
>>63913673
I enjoyed the fast and choreographed fights better than the OT fights people smashing like retards.
And i had no emotional investment in any fight, because i knew the outcome.
It was fucking obvious every time.
Only exception for these are the fights with Dooku in ep2 because dooku could e died right there.
You are just spreading bullshit and probably just mad that there are things that the PT did better.
>>63913721
So we had a character with a history of being a very calm Master Jedi who has unparalleled mastery of the force. Versus a literally who (At the time, come to find out Dooku was the greatest duelist in the Jedi Order. Not sure which is worse) and turns into a fucking gremlin flying around spinning and making awful yoda noises.
>>63913823
So a calm nature means you also fight slow and doing barely anything?
Wow
And Dooku wasnt the best duelist in the order since he wasnt the Battlemaster of the order.
>>63913673
>Because it doesn't really address the argument. It's undeniable that all of the lightsaber duels in the OT have emotional relevance to the characters partaking in it, which in turn makes it more interesting because the characters have an actual REASON to fight besides 'I'm good and you're bad we need to fight' and they put some actual emotion into how they fight instead of it being a perfectly choreographed gymnastics routine
I've heard a lot of arguments against the lightsaber fights in the PT but this one is exceptionally stupid. You're basically saying a lightsaber fight can never just be between the forces of good and evil, it absolutely has to be something personal.
It's also stupid that you say that fight for one's sense of right and wrong isn't enough of an "actual reason" to fight, when in real life people more often fight for their respective ideals than they ever do fight for personal reasons against people they know intimately. And also I think you're exaggerating things here as well. While the OT fights definitely have this emotional element to them, people remember the movies fondly because they are stories of the fight between good and evill and the lightsaber fights themselves reflect that. People didn't like the lightsaber fights because they liked seeing people close to one another beat each other's brains out for personal bullshit. They enjoyed them because they represented not just personal clashes but a bigger, more cosmic battle between good and evil.
While some of the PT fights lack that personal element, they still embody that cosmic battle between light and dark, good and evil, which is why people can still enjoy them, even if they aren't all "you killed my father" sort of things.
You admit that the Original Trilogy is a very simple fight between good and evil, but for some arbitrary reason you say "lightsaber fights can't be between
>>63903835
the fights in movies 1-6 have been completely terrible
are you saying that they aren't shit in 7? then I should probably watch it, got a lot of positive reception
Prequels had everything in excess.
Other movies did not.
There is a fucking sea of Jedis doing crazy kung fu shit with multi colored lightsabers. Nothing about this stands out because everyone has this shit.
Other movies, the lightsabers are treated on par with Excalibur or whatever, just with a sci-fi twist on it. They're super rare and only given to very few people, ie two people in the movies cast. Mystical shit is attached to these things, which is something that you don't get from the prequels. Those guys are just dudes who earned a license after a training seminar.
How the fuck did this thread become a magnet for prequel apologists?
>>63913823
>So we had a character with a history of being a very calm Master Jedi who has unparalleled mastery of the force
And now we have a story of a very calm Master Jedi who is calm not beause he is some hermit monk but because he also is a brilliant strategist, politician and fighter who seen his cause ruined after he was defeated by someone of equal capabilities but much less moral values and the path of light side corrupted and broken. I have no problem with that.
>>63913896
Dumping
>>63913849
>So a calm nature means you also fight slow and doing barely anything?
Ben Kenobi moved slow as fuck and had a calm nature throughout ANH.
And how could Dooku be the Battlemaster when he left the order? Dooku and Mace were nearly at the same level of swordsmanship. But this is just the ridiculousness of jacking up secondary characters power levels to make them interesting. People wanted answers as to how this old fart could disarm and disable a Knight and Padawan, then fight YODA to a draw? Which is equally as ridiculous because nothing in the series had hinted that Yoda was at all a skilled swordsman. Thanks Lucas.
>>63913899
>look guys, i've seen plinkett reviews, aint i hip now?
No, you are not.
2/6
>>63913963
but I'm not wrong.
>>63913929
i had a big problem with how the lightsabers turned on in this movie. they seemed so off. the beam was slow to ignite and it didnt seem like any of the characters were reacting to it. finn using it to kill troopers was egregious, he immediately starts stabbing dudes and fighting without any proper training and weakened the mystique of the lightsaber
>>63914030
The black smoke kills Eko
Locke is dead in the beginning of the 6th season
Jack replaces jakob
Jack dies, Hugo is the new jakob
So... Can Jedi's use red lightsabers or are they not allowed?
6/6
>>63913899
>Other movies, the lightsabers are treated on par with Excalibur or whatever, just with a sci-fi twist on it. They're super rare and only given to very few people, ie two people in the movies cast. Mystical shit is attached to these things, which is something that you don't get from the prequels.
This is another retarded argument and is more of fanboy projection than anything actually stated or implied in the Original films or any of the lore. While the lightsaber is treated as something rare which stands out from other weapons in the OT. As Kenobi says it's not as clumsy or random as a blaster but is "an elegant weapon for a more civilized age" nowhere in the Star Wars lore was the individual lightsaber ever treated as being on par with Excalibur. It's directly implied in the Original movies and shown in the expanded universe material even before the PT that there were once many Jedi and that the lightsaber in fact embodied a different age by virtue of its prevalency in a period of the bygone past. The reason the lightsaber is treated as rare in the OT is because all the Jedi were murdered and other than Darth Vader and the small number of remaining Jedi who may or may not even exist, no one uses a lightsaber and youth like Luke have forgotten it.
If anything the message of the OT is a nostalgic love letter to the past age of sword fighting over modern gun warfare and is actually an allusion to the Meiji Restoration which saw the death of the samurai schools as they became replaced by more modern military power, some of which was helmed by former Samurai, where guns and cannons replaced the sword and spear. This is also why George and people put as much time and effort into the TPM "dance", the point of the fight at the time was to show something people had never seen, the more "civilized age" of where the lightsaber stood above all weapons and the lightsaber arts were widely practiced.
>>63913978
But you are. From the ANH characters mentioned the order of Jedi knights which is a thig of the past now. Order means an organised structure of people who are, since lightsaber is jedi weapon, armed with them. Luke does the very kung-fu-ish training in ESB which isnt just about philosophy but about reaching the top physical condition and it is supposed to be standart Jedi training. So
>sea of Jedis doing crazy kung fu shit with multi colored lightsabers
is pretty much legit, especially it is just one time in Ep2 when the order went to rescue its members, thus dragging itself into war.
>>63914071
>>63903835
Did JJ watch the Plinkett reviews?
>>63914058
it's not a magical weapon, anyone can use it like a club, but the Force gives you speed and precog
>>63914083
thank you
>all the background aliens and robots were super cool
>all the important ones were shitty CGI
>>63914124
probably, that's why the movie was probably shit
>>63914099
That's nice, but the prequels still did everything in excess.
>>63913929
God fucking DAMN his wound punches get me so fired up. It's like when Obi was bouncing up in down behind the shield wall getting ready to fight after Maul killed Qui Gon.
>>63914124
He did. He'd better read some books on mythology or just a wide range of cultural milestones to draw inspiration from them and not only from ANH.
>millenial
Just say underage
>bait
Just say troll
Just say /b/
>>63903835
>I thought /tv/ was supposed to be patrician.
>>63914145
Np
>>63914193
Aye
>>63914217
Millennials are the age group between early 1980's and early 2000's.
>>63914175
What exactly they did in excess? There were literally a single lightsaber battle where more than three people participated at once.
>>63914262
>What exactly they did in excess?
Everything.
>>63914254
Not, it's not
>>63914273
Thank you for adding to discussion.
>>63914262
literally everything
>>63914206
Most of the PT haters who make shitty youtube reviews or who try to one up each other in how much they don't like the prequels can't be bothered to study Star Wars lore, so it's not important.
Most of them only talk about "muh KOTOR" which is why they try to sucker people into thinking Kylo Ren was Revan because that's far as they go.
>>63914298
Thank you for adding to discussion.
I understand disliking TFA but liking the prequels and their fights is just pleb.
The prequels are garbage, even for space fantasy adventures.
You can be as creative as you want but if the movie is borderline unwatchable. Its like you guys defending them havent even seen them recently. Theyre mostly dialog and that dialog is awful
>>63914254
And people exclusively use it instead of underage, ever since kid born in '97 have become over 18
>>63905880
>>63912550
Boba Fett wasn't the main villian, and His true Cult Fame wasn't realised til it was too late that and the very start of Lucas not understanding what made his early stuff great
>>63914301
I dont know that much about lore aside from KOTOR, Legacy and Kyle Katarn to, to be honest.
>>63913929
>that throw against the tree
Straight outta Supernatural
>>63914425
doesn't make you right, though.
>>63912805
He wanted to enrage him, not kill him. Did you even watch the movie?
>>63914088
Lowkey best post in thread
>>63914389
Too much CGI
Too much lightsabers
Too much exposition
Too much pottery
Too many climaxes
Too many battles that are just dated CGI cartoons
Too many droids as enemies
Too many CGI clones
Too much Jake Lloyd
Too much Hayden Christianson
Too much JarJar/Dexter Jettser
Too much political discussion that really doesn't add to anything
Want me to continue?
>>63914301
>guys you have to read a bunch of shitty fanfiction and comics thats wriiten by terrible failed writers for the prequels to be good, I swear!
>>63914390
They have their Moments, but are shitty. The 'you just hate it cause le reddit' excuse is so fucking tiring. It's like they actually pretend Peepoopoo fart poo Humour is the same as R2 and C3pos banter. And there is no difference between the Trios.
The prequels were boring as fuck and did so much wrong. Mostly with dialouge, and the most forced romance put to film. Fixing that or getting rid of it being so major alone would vastly improve the Prequels. That and no god damn senate scens. Or just one two for exposition. And Villains that aren't utterly retarded.
>Greivous canon didn't Know Sheev was Palpy
>had him kidnap Him
>could have just/ should have just kill Sheev there
>Dooku knew who Sheev was but didn't rat him out with no motivation to no do so
>>63913998
>>63914030
>>63914053
>all those Sheev telegraphed stab attempts
>>63912610
>no footlong robocock
why did they even bother?
>>63913929
yo thanks fäm for the dump, I appreciate it
what I can see here is too much talk and too little action
the guy with the red dildo had ample opportunity to kill both of them. instead he stood there and did nothing
>>63913971
okay, first hit of blue dildo man wasn't even directed towards red dildo man, red dildo man would not have needed to block, he could have just countered and killed blue dildo right away
most of the hits are exactly the same, just swinging their dildos in front of each other but there are a few swings in between that at least go in the direction of the opponent
so far I can not recognize any technique, skill or smarts involved in the fight
>>63913998
holy fucking shit during the first attack of the woman she is looking away and closing her eyes! I can't even call it a lunge, it is so bad
but the fight is already significantly better, at least they are aiming at each other
too bad they cut the parry, meaning the actors are complete garbage and they resort to a poor attemt at hiding it, and the "riposte" was complete shit too, way too slow
>>63914030
just more of the same, fight gets worse again, more blatant misses
>>63914053
I don't get it, why do they just passively stand there after a block and do nothing? they could easily angle their dildos and injure the other
but the part afterwards is again much better, even though there still is no technique whatsoever at least the woman shows determination
>>63914083
shitty end, as if she tried her best not to kill him and miraculously succeeded
the fight was better than anything I have seen in movies 1-6 but I still am not impressed
thanks for dump
>inb4 someone is butthurt at me
>>63914072
In one of the earlier drafts of ROTJ, Luke Force grabs Vader's lightsaber to attack Palpatine. And Palpatine then throws his own saber to Vader. Basically it would've been the first red on red lightsaber duel if it stayed in.
>>63914583
>b-but muuh riposte
faggot
>>63914471
>not muh
>not muh
>not muh up to the 8th
>the whole fucking point of the prequels is about his character and he is "too much"?
>he was a good cast, it is just Lucas who cant write dialogue for shit and bad camera work
>kinda legit/one minute on screen? i was genuinely curious about his history with Obi-Wan
>kinda legit
Let's see. 10 not muhs out of 12. Great score.
>>63914571
The whole point is they're inexperienced and they're not performing a gymnastics routine
it's an actually good fight unlike the prequels
>Man goes out of his way to make an entirely new plot
>Shows Jedi at the peak of their power at a different time
>People whine its not like the duel between 2 old men and cry that they want their original trilogy back
>JJ comes along and remakes the first movie under the guise of a "sequel", stealing every major plot point and doing all the same old shit as the OT
>Gets mass praise as the savior of Star Wars
>>63914680
THIS
H
I
S
>>63914436
That's okay. I'm not digging at you necessarily
>>63914524
I didn't say that. I think it's actually a flaw of the PT that it relies so heavily on supplementary materials to make sense of its plot.
But a lot of the PT haters, and I don't mean people who just dislike them for not being very good, but the people who act like their childhood was destroyed by them, aren't even big enough Star Wars fans to know who Jacen Solo is to recognize how Abrams conned them.
>>63914680
Turns out the Jedi in the peak of their power makes for a lousy show.
>>63914680
>rating movies out of some misguided concept of uniqueness and good intentions rather than the execution of the narrative
I can't believe people are this desperate to try and defend the prequels now
>>63914640
what's the point of your post
>>63914746
>I enjoy rehashed and regurgitated formulaic garbage pandering to the lowest denominator as opposed to unique, albeit somewhat flawed, works of art that at least try to push the envelope
Are you an anime producer by any chance?
>>63903835
It's true, sword fights were short, brutal and deadly. Former optio Legio V.
>>63914680
>make something bad
>get backlash
>make something good
>get praise
wow it's like poetry
>>63913956
>nothing in the series had hinted that Yoda was at all a skilled swordsman
I mean Yoda training Luke was pretty definitely a thing that happened but whatever man
>>63914770
>works of art that at least try to push the envelope
go to bed george lucas
>>63914746
>Being content watching the same exact shit over and over again as long as they keep updating the special effects
I won't hold the prequels anywhere near the OT, but at least I didn't know exactly what was going to happen after seeing one movie poster. Enjoy Star Wars Episode 8: The First Order Strikes Back
>>63914795
All of yoda's training was about why he shouldn't resort to using his lightsaber
>>63914802
Yes, cinema is an art, or at least some people still believe it should be treated as such
>>63914680
>People whine its not like the duel between 2 old men and cry that they want their original trilogy back
No no-one wanted that, they just didn't want over choreographed as shit fight scenes. They wanted a decent story with a serviceable plot, Neat characters A good villian or two. Some good banter, fun dialouge. Find out more about the force.
not
>destroy the mystery and uniqueness of Yoda the force.
>a movie a bout space politics
>no protaganist
>next two films have one but he is completely unlikable
>most forced romance ever
This 'there is only one thing that people say is wrong and is wrong in the prequels' maymay
>>63914811
>implying ANH's plot wasn't already predictable
>implying star wars is about the events and not how the characters respond to those events
>>63914058
I mean stabbing dudes doesn't really require training and it was never stated that you had to be force sensitive to use a lightsaber, also Finn had at least some combat training being a storm trooper so it's not infeasible that he'd stab a few dudes, and he did get his shit wrecked by the trooper with that club
>>63914795
That was the force not lightsabers, I feel like light sabers aren't really practical and are used most for tradition. I mean that's why in the original palpatine didn't use one, he thought they were dumb. Vader used one because he was an ex-jedi.
>>63914844
The character responses were exactly the same too so I don't know where you're going with this.
Obligatory
PT dueling is the only dueling that matters and the only thing that makes Jedi and Sith seem reasonable in a sci-fi setting.
OT duelling makes Jedi seem out of place. It's like two knights having a sword fight during WW2 or something. You could argue that's sort of the point, since the Force has kind of fallen by the time the OT comes around. Including that in the new trilogy is just stupid though, because now it seems even further out of place. There's no reason Kylo shouldn't just be a dark side user who uses a gun (and I think one of the Knights actually has a gun? which makes lightsabers seem even futher out of place). Same with Rey. Her learning the force is great, but learning how to use that lightsaber comes across as pointless for anything but really, really specific circumstances.
Hopefully the next 2 movies bring the combat back to prequel era dueling. That'd make sense, since after the Force wanned under the rule of the Empire it's now coming back with the new generation who can rediscover its true power.
>>63914878
those light saber affects were really bad holy shit.
>>63914847
This, it is hinted that Sabers are merely a novelty. And was never meant to be the sole focus of what is "Star wars' Force wise. I feel the force is far more what should be made into fantastic use. I like that it can be more about the raw power of the force.
The prequels did the exact fucking opposite. Jedi's Don't do a shit thing besides a a force push here or there. Only like 2 are allowed to get past being able to just push something
Darth Vader sure wasn't talking about fucking Light-sabers when he mocked the Death Star.
>>63914888
'No'
>>63914839
>destroy the mystery and uniqueness of the force.
They didn't do that though. The midichlorians aren't the force and have never been treated as such.
>a movie a bout space politics
While it wasn't entirely successful, I always appreciated its effort to set itself apart from the OT by delving a bit more into the politics that led to the Empire's rise.
>no protaganist
Can't really argue too much with that, but I don't every movie needs to center around a single protagonist. The movies have protagonists, it just doesn't focus its attention on one. In some cases this helps to make the films' perspectives feel a bit more broad, in other cases it results in a messy narrative.
>most forced romance ever
the romance was kinda bad, yeah, which is why I say Attack of the Clones is the weakest of the prequels. But as the meme goes "still a better love story that Twilight, hurr"
>>63915000
I'm more getting at how fucking blind PT defenders are to the flaws. And why other nitpicks become major annoyances because of it failing everywhere else.
>destroy the mystery and uniqueness of the force.
>They didn't do that though. The midichlorians aren't the force and have never been treated as such.
More mean with Yoda, he didn't to have a fucking light-saber, it is so impractical for him. If he needs to fight have him only use the force. I coulda lived with that.
>While it wasn't entirely successful, I always appreciated its effort to set itself apart from the OT by delving a bit more into the politics that led to the Empire's rise.
Like i said they didn't need to bust their balls, it just needed a servicable plot. Not a boring as fuck plot
>>63914961
yeah, they were a thousand year old order they used them for the sake of tradition. Sith don't give a fuck about that shit, and only care about the most efficient way of murdering people for the most part. Vader was a unique case because of his former jedi status, he was cool because he was a fallen jedi so him using a lightsaber made sense on a certain level.
Kylo also reflects. I hope snoke and other sith lords don't use lightsabers, it would show they remember what shit was about in the original trilogy.
Not only are lightsabers impractical but super impractical for certain races of people like those weird squids with the fleshy tenticle hair or short potato sack wearing elves like yoda.
>>63915088
>Yoda didnt use lightsaber in the OT
>Therefore, he never EVER used lightsaber
He is a jedi knight you know. Do you know what knight means?
>lightsabers are pure energy, therefore have no weight and can cut through anything easily
>except when stabbing someone, then the blade seems to hold the victim against its weight until retrackting, instead of effortlessly cutting the victim in half vertically and making a gruesome messy gore out of protagonist characters
You can't explain this shit.
>>63914961
>This, it is hinted that Sabers are merely a novelty.
No, it isn't. It never is. People keep projecting shit on the OT that isn't fucking there just to create a wider contrast between the two trilogies than there really is.
The lightsaber is treated in the OT as a noble weapon. The trademark of the Jedi. And it's implied that the art of lightsaber combat and lightsabers as weapons themselves was much more widespread before the Empire.
Did the movies treat the lightsaber as the only thing that makes a Jedi a Jedi, no, but they never treated the lighsaber as a novelty. Nor did they treat it as some extremely mystical blade that only a few people would or could ever use. Shit, Ben gives Luke his father's lightsaber right off the bat and he starts helping learn it before he's even used his first real force power. He doesn't say "when you're a little older and more skilled, I'll give it to you."
Also, how much force power did we even see in the original trilogy. The biggest feats we saw were force choke, force lightning, and Yoda raising an X-Wing. If anything Force power in the PT was shown as a lot stronger.
>>63914818
I haven't seen the OT in a while, but the implication is still that Yoda is a Jedi master and a living relic of the old times that the lightsaber is also a relic of, the overall implication being that Yoda is at least somewhat decent at using a lightsaber.
>>63914847
>>63914961
I absolutely agree with you, it's definitely pretty heavily implied that lightsabers are sort of an obsolete relic, that could still be useful, but still fell out of favor. I guess what I'm trying to get at is that the prequels being about the bygone, more civilized age where Jedi were fucking everywhere meant that lightsabers would be more common, but because of this and the fact that they became one of the more iconic features of the series, it meant that they'd become a lot more of a focal point, and the people using lightsabers weren't all either old or untrained, in conjunction with cgi being a thing I think Lucas took it too far for sure.
