She isn't a Mary Sue
>She has spent most of her life scavenging for mechanical parts to sell, it's not a stretch she has tinkered with pieces and learned how shit works
>The Millennium Falcon was there for years and based on her conversation with Han it's obvious the mechanics of the Falcon were well known to people other than Han and Chewie
>Her ability to pilot was not explained, it could be she is a natural, it certainly helps she had home field advantage when fending of the two tie fighters
>She has learned how to defend herself from thieves and other people with her staff, a lightsaber isn't much different
>She releases the tentacle monsters and almost gets Finn killed
>She panics and runs away like a little bitch when confronted with her mysterious past
>She struggles to fire the blaster and looks weak when trying fend off Kylo Ren
>Is incapacitated and taken hostage for interrogation
>Somehow* able to fend of the mental attack by a conflicted and unfocused Kylo Ren
>Somehow* able to fight a weak, wounded, unfocused, and not fully trained Kylo Ren to a draw*She obviously has some sort of history with Luke, whether she is related or not the prevailing consensus is that she had Jedi training before being dumped on the Jakku. During her interrogation Kylo Ren saw the islands where Luke was at meaning she has been there or has some link.
Until we get more information concerning her mysterious past, probably from Episode VIII, we can't assume she just lucked out or was some Superman of a character. She IS the main character of the new trilogy, what did you expect from a main character Jedi in a SW movie?
I agree with you, OP.
>>63814105
She's a Mary Sue. I'm a woman and even I can admit this.
>>63814260
Thank god you said this "as a woman", it totally validates your opinion on the topic and means everyone else is wrong.
>>63814327
It does.
>>63814105
You, I love you. Max Landis is wrong on this one.
>>63814342
As a woman you're wrong.
>not a stretch
>could be
>somehow
Using these phrases does not help your argument. The movie does a poor job explaining these things, and relies on the audience to fill in the blanks to excuse this missing information. That's not how to write a good character, and does little to quell the Mary Sue criers.
>>63814577
Ok then, she IS an expert at hand to hand combat out of necessity and due to years of relative isolation and boredom has learned electronics and mechanics from the parts she has scavenged.
The other things will be explained in VIII and IX
>>63814105
IF you have to justify something by creating some pseudo-explanation that is outside the film its probably a poorly written character(i.e. a mary-sue).
You want to like the character but deep down your going to end up hating her.
>>63814577
That's what happens when you let Jew Jew Abrams direct
>>63814105
Obviously she is Luke's daughter. Luke was always more powerful than Leia. She had recurring visions of the sea and the island. Luke has been training her telepathically. This is all obvious.
>>63814260
the concept of mary sues has nothing to do with being a woman
>>63814105
>in the theater
>it's a small theater in Lawrence so there weren't many people there for opening night
>comfortably quiet for almost the entire film
>it gets to the scene whereRey and Kylo are fighting and she sits there with her eyes closed for a few seconds and then suddenly starts kicking his ass
>some loud woman behind me starts yelling "YEAH YOU GO GIRL" over and over again for the rest of the scene
I thought I had gotten lucky
>>63814105
Fighting starving thieves and scavengers who are not trained in combat does not make you somehow able to fight with a completely different weapon in a completely different style against a trained opponent.
>>63814105
She has no clue who Luke is beyond old legends she has heard - she says so in the film.
>>63814105
fuck that ugly bitch and her non existent acting skills, only a kike would use her in star wars.
>>63814105
The issue isn't that she is perfect, its that she quickly and easily overcomes problems, and even when she makes mistakes the consequences aren't nearly as serious for her as for other characters. None of the mistakes you listed turned out badly for her, or not as badly as for Han and Finn.
And explaining how she has all her abilities doesn't mean she isn't a Mary sue, the problem is that the plot is practically engineered to enable her to come up with the right skills for any situation.
>>63814412
>You, I love you
Fuck off reddit.
>>63814822
>Pseudo-explanation that is outside of the film
This isn't one film built to stand alone, it's supposed to be part 1 of the trilogy. You're the faggot who gets up during the intermission of a play and gives it bad reviews because you are confused about shit you know will be explained after the intermission is over.
>>63814105
Just because there is an explanation for (some of) it, doesn't mean she isn't a Mary Sue.
You wasted all that time to show nothing.
>>63814997
>Mistake of running off and being a bitch
>Leads to her getting subdued, knocked out and kidnapped by Kylo Ren
>>63815031
The previous movies were self-contained enough to stand on their own. You could follow what's happening and have logical explanations to everything. TFA relies entirely on the other two movies to fill in the massive amount of blanks.
Abrams himself said he wanted TFA to be able to stand on its own and work was its own movie. He failed miserably.
>>63814105
The only thing more pathetic than people calling her a mary sue are faggots like you that feel the need to actually defend her.
Just ignore them if it's not true.
>>63814686
>going to see VIII and IX after this shit
Kill yourself, bae.
>>63815120
Why are you even here if you don't like discussion? If we ignored everyone we disagree with, there would be no point to this place existing. Unless you just want a hugbox where everyone agrees with you, and only go to threads where everyone thinks like you.
>>63815080
Which meant nothing, she easily overcame her situation and easily escaped. I didn't say she didn't make mistakes, only that they were easily resolved and had little to no consequences for her.
>>63815136
Don't lie to yourself like that anon, you know you're going to watch them just like everyone else
>>63814686
>and due to years of relative isolation and boredom has learned electronics and mechanics from the parts she has scavenged.
She almost certainly have been taught what parts of a machine are valuable. And since her employer own the Millennium Falcon, it is very likely she was on board doing repairs at various times. This was why she knew where the gunner bay was. It was clearly NOT her first time in that ship.
>>63814105
youre wrong op. Lukes been watching her through the force and granting her battle meditation perks. Do you niggers even /starwars/
>>63814105
mark my words
kylo didn't kill her because they were best friends when they were in luke's academy
>>63814105
>what did you expect
Idk man maybe some character development like Luke had? I'm already tired of this "lol it's Star Wars of course she is a strong" excuse. It's like you dense faggots haven't seen A New Hope or Empire.
You have, haven't you?
>>63814105
I think once she starts her Jedi training we'll see just how imperfect of a character she is because that will be the point of her training.
I bet she'll also run into problems in the future where she tries to do something stupid by herself only to be rescued by her friends. With headstrong and independent characters this must happen to them at least once to get the idea across that they aren't perfect.
>>63815214
I'mpiratingthem if I can.
>>63814997
>>63814997
this is more a problem of them trying to cram 3.5-4 hours of movie into 2hrs and 15 mins.
everyone claiming her character didn't change or that she was perfect start to finish is conveniently ignoring elements to the contrary that were explicitly shoved down our throat. it wasn't dealt with gracefully, which is a knock for sure, but most of the critiques aren't saying that.
>>63815231
Battle meditation is a lame video game thing from a mediocre video game that wow'd you as a child.
Darth Revan is not that cool.
>>63815080
Which she promptly overcame by overpowering a trained force user.
I didn't get a strong mary sue vibe, she's carried through a lot of the movie by the other characters, I think maybe over the next two movies she'll start to look more like one though.
>>63814260
L O N D O N
>I'm the best at everything and have trouble with nothing that comes my way
>Not a Mary Sue
>>63815398
I felt that it was Finn who was carried through by others
>>63815309
She was prefect start to finish. She was shown to be extremely competent in everything she. Every issue she ran into was just a minor speedbump which she overcame within 10 minutes by showing how even more powerful she was. Her character didn't change at all, she was a strong independent woman who helped others at the start, she was a strong independent woman who helped others at the end. Now contrast it to Finn's character.
>>63815393
>Overpowering a force user
You mean being left alone while Ren talked to Snoke, being guarded by one stormtrooper and using the Jedi mind trick to escape before Ren returned?
>>63815354
Except palpatine canonically was using battle meditation on his fleet at endor and when he died they got scattered from the ensuing confusion. Checkmate pleb
>>63815398
>She carried through a lot of the movie by other characters
Are you kidding me?
>>63815457
Ren was reading her mind, but she pushed back and read Ren's mind instead. With no training.
>>63815457
She beat Ren at extracting information from her mind and instead got into his mind.
>>63814260
>>63815442
>she was a strong independent woman
Strong? Yeah (way too much) independent? she's been waiting for 20 years in a fucking desert for someone, so no
>>63815483
>literally harry potter vs snape
>is automatically liked by everyone
>somehow magically knows how to mindtrick, probe people's minds, and be better at the force than kylo, who presumably trained with luke, when she barely knew anything about the force prior
>keep in mind that in A New Hope, all Luke could do was use it to aim a missile- and that was with Obi Wan helping him as a force ghost
>also magically becomes skilled with a lightsaber
>is able to fix up the millennium falcon better than han and chewie, even though they repaired, maintained, and flew the ship for years
>is able to competently fly the millennium falcon by herself even though it requires two pilots
her knowing how to fight i can accept given her background being raised in hardy, difficult living conditions but in that case i would expect her to be more cold, distant, and untrusting
>>63815483
>With no training
hahahahaha, it's like you can't figure shit out without the movie holding you hand
>>63815521
>Can survive in the desert for 20 fucking years
>Not strong or independent
Dumb or merely pretending?
>>63815578
I can assure you that even if Luke did teach Rey in the past, there is no way he'd teach her to invade people's minds. That's Sith shit.
>>63815171
I like actual meaningful discussion.
This discussion is pointless.
>>63815442
if she were perfect, she wouldn't have thought about selling bb8
if she were perfect, she wouldnt have crashed the falcon into shit initially
if she were perfect, she wouldn't have failed the first time she was confronted by kylo in the woods
if she were perfect she wouldn't have run from the lightsaber
if she were perfect she wouldn't have struggled with the blaster solo gave to her
if she were perfect she wouldn't have hit the wrong fuses when they meet han
if she were perfect she would have had the stormtrooper let her loose the first time
it was atrociously handled, but each of those instances were explicitly her overcoming a shortcoming. I don't see how you can possibly deny it. It was severely rushed (almost hilariously so), that's the problem.
Can someone post the Daisy Ridley laughing pic
I felt like Finn was a better character though
>no "lol xd the force" carrying him
>doesnt know the strength of the resistance so he ditches until then
>takes on a fucking jedi with nothing more than storm trooper training and DETERMINATION
>doesnt fall back into a sort of mob mentality
>attempts to leave with BB-8 to peel the new order off of han and ray
gotta say, the appearance of cortosis-weave shit was great
>>63815600
strong but psychologically very dependent m8, she could have left that planet in a hearbeat considering she's also an OP pilot
>>63815648
The point is its of no concern to her its more like "woops teehee" and then she immediately does it perfectly
>>63814105
Being the child of a powerful force user never meant you could go toe-to-toe with a jedi knight/sith warrior after 30 seconds of getting your memory probed. The first words out of Luke's mouth in Ep.8 better be something about how Ren unintentionally tapped into her latent force abilities and transferred his knowledge of the force into her somehow, and even that would be a bunch of bullshit.
>>63815568
>>is automatically liked by everyone
Why shouldn't she be? Initially Han and Chewie were weary of them until they explained the situation. Everyone is like 5 people
>>somehow magically knows how to mindtrick, probe people's minds, and be better at the force than kylo, who presumably trained with luke, when she barely knew anything about the force prior
You're not good at getting subtle hints, are you?
>>also magically becomes skilled with a lightsaber
She was skilled with her staff, the two aren't dissimilar
>>is able to fix up the millennium falcon better than han and chewie, even though they repaired, maintained, and flew the ship for years
More like she blurted out the correct solution on a ship she has been working on, for her employer for years, before Han could slowly say the answer
>>is able to competently fly the millennium falcon by herself even though it requires two pilots
You mean fly it a few hundred/thousands of feet above ground rather than in space and struggled to reach one switch on the passenger side.
Taking a poll, plz contribute
http://strawpoll.me/6306008/
>>63815648
>Every issue she ran into was just a minor speedbump which she overcame within 10 minutes by showing how even more powerful she was
She didn't sell BB8 and became good friends with BB8
She expertly piloted Falcon afters
She overpowers Kylo mentally and physical immediately afters
She comes to accept and becomes strong with the force
She instantly becomes a sharpshooter when covering BB8 escape
She instantly becomes a better mechanic than Han afters
She instantly grasps the jedi mind trick on the 2nd try
Are you even trying?
>>63815606
>Not teaching someone how to defend themselves against likely atacks
>>63815724
Like most other main characters in action/sci-fi films?
>>63815775
How likely is it though? I can't recall anything like this in the previous movies. Luke probably did not know about Snoke, and Ren wasn't evil back then yet.
>>63815818
Give an example then
>>63815727
kylo hardly wanted to kill her, plus was in bad shape himself. i still agree it was bad storytelling plus she didn't even mention her powers after the fight
she was the worst part of the movie acting wise too
>>63814105
>She isn't a Mary Sue
lol no
Movie would have been perfect if Kylo beat Rey at the final fight and got seperated like in the movie. This would set up Kylo as a formidable opponent, set up Rey as the underdog who needs training, set up more tension leading into episode 8 but no, Mary Sue had to win the fight. Fucking writers can't even shit on a good story.
Friendly reminder that a good half of episode VIII is going to be about Kylo and Rey training together until he loses his shit because a girl is stronger than him and his daddy hates him
>>63815841
To specify, what? An example of a MC who overcomes obstacles and comes out in the end with relatively little damage to their self?
>>63815657
Too bad he looks like a howler monkey
>>63815916
This. Shit the thing was gonna split either way. Kylo should have had her on the ropes, about to finish her off, then she gets nature ex-machina'd to safety.
Instead Kylo's a pussy who can't beat an untrained womanlet.
>>63815921
An MC who is extremely proficient at any and everything he/she does. Is able to bullshit his/her way against better opponents despite the movie clearly stating otherwise and instantly liked by everyone she/he meets.
>>63815818
Im sure when anakin and luke lost their limbs it was a minor inconvenience. What really should have happened is chewie should've launched himself into a full blown berserker rage and kicked the shit out of kylo until he got gunned down by reinforcements as rey and finn escaped. Chewie failed his lifedebt and lost his best friend. Hes going to be a shell of his former self.
>>63815760
are you? a prerfect character literally cannot experience mini failures.
Again, like the other guy who responded to me, your problem isn't with her perfection (she very explicitly was not perfect) its that her development was shoddy and rushed. Those are two different things.
>>63815835
For the past 60~ years Jedi and Sith have been going to battler with each other. Luke going "Oh yeah, we're not just dealing with trade federations or border disputes on random planets but with actual evil Siths trying to exterminate us, here's some shit I learned to help out."
>>63815918
>and his daddy hates him
Yeah, about that...
>>63815737
>Why shouldn't she be? Initially Han and Chewie were weary of them until they explained the situation. Everyone is like 5 people
It's boring because there's no growth. Luke didn't get along with Leia or Han and they get closer because they struggle together. Like I said before, if she had to learn how to fight while on Jakku I can accept that, but at the same time I would expect her to be more distant or untrusting
>You're not good at getting subtle hints, are you?
She was left on Jakku when she was like, 5. Are you telling me she became ridiculously skilled at the force when she was 4?
>She was skilled with her staff, the two aren't dissimilar
Yes they are. Using a staff is not the same as using a lightsaber, just like how using a spear is not the same as using a katana.
>You mean fly it a few hundred/thousands of feet above ground rather than in space and struggled to reach one switch on the passenger side.
That's ridiculously good considering that it requires two people to pilot
>>63815994
>Not understanding the meaning of Mary Sue
>>63815998
Yes, but mindreading in specific? A technique not seen before.
You like girls.
>>63815916
devils advocate - her success wasn't about her becoming better, it was about him failing. it wasn't about exposing her as a superior hero, but rather exposing him as a flawed villain. Poorly handled if that's the case, but its plausible.
>>63814105
>>She has learned how to defend herself from thieves and other people with her staff, a lightsaber isn't much different
FUCK OFF
It's completely fucking different.
>>63816029
>not understanding the meaning of perfect
mary sue is the meme of the month for sure tho. you guys can't get over it.
>>63815737
The problem is that the established lore has said that training in the force and lightsaber combat is something that is incredibly difficult. After 3 years of basic training between ep.4 and 5 Luke had to really concentrate to pull his lightsaber out of the snow. Rey has no training and all she really knows is that the force is a myth yet she's still able to mind trick troopers and overpower a force user with probably a decade of training.
>>63815962
>She wasn't proficient at using a blaster and struggled with it
>She wasn't proficient at expressing feelings
>She wasn't proficient at fucking with fuses
>She wasn't proficient at reading peoples true intentions (in reference to Finn lying), she was actually quite naive
>Liked by everyone she meets
Han, Chewie, Finn, Leia, BB8, Maz... Anyone else?
>>63816046
A flawed MC is so much better than having a flawed villain. There are 2 more movies left. Why the fuck would you do reverse progression?
Rey goes from flawed to flawless by the end
Kylo goes from flawless to flawed by the end
It is retarded writing.
>>63816074
>A Mary Sue or, in case of a male, Gary Stu or Marty Stu is an idealized fictional character, a young or low-rank person who saves the day through extraordinary abilities. Often but not necessarily this character is recognized as an author insert and/or wish-fulfillment.
It felt like a Disney movie and she is basically a disney princess.
Am I the only one who thnks literally every new character could be part of High School Musical™?
Are we going to get another Star Wars Christams special next year? Cause I surely hope so tbf
>>63816110
poorly handled I agree. but they are both flawed and the whole next movie will be about both of them getting stronger in mirror images of one another. showdown in 9, obviously.
its an episode thats meant to necessitate viewing the subsequent episodes.
>>63814577
What are Jedi? Why are they gone? What were the Clone Wars? How does the Force work? Why is the Empire so powerful and what is their motivation? Why is Han on the lam? Why does Ben sacrifice himself?
When A New Hope came out it didn't need to explain everything, fuck you
>>63816155
whats your point? My entire discussion has been about perfection and the flawed claim that she was static, not about how well she fits that cliche.
>>63816166
>They were both flawed
Lmao. Did we watch the same movie? She literally fixed all her flaws by the end of the movie while showing extremely proficiency in all areas even in skills where she was never trained for.
>>63815916
Wasn't Kylo ready to stand up when the planet split?
Also, I think they considered it more important to develop Kylo in this way, it will fuck him up even more knowing that he couldn't beat up a regular person with the unexplained backing of the force.
>>63816209
So you agree she is a Mary Sue?
I actually liked Finn. Maybe we should have worried more about the Mary Sue than the nigger. Kathleen Kennedy clearly is gonna make this next wave of Star Wars media about "gurrrl power :D!". I'm fine with a female protagonist, they should have just given her more room to grow.
>>63816218
she struggled against a wounded trainee, though she ultimately bested him. she's just discovering her powers and requires training, hence the last scene of the fucking movie.
>>63816184
We're talking about TFA, not ANH. It's understandable for you to be confused, considering they're pretty much the same movie, but another movie having flaws doesn't excuse this one.
>>63814105
And yet no character flaws.
>>63816218
>skills where she was never trained for
enough with this meme she's clearly the new anakin and luke blocked her memory just like he did with R2D2
>>63816228
Was there further need to develop Ren? He already had his character exposition and growth by killing Han. Showing him to be weaker than an untrained girl is just plain bad writing. Why would you even write that in the first place?
>>63816110
Matter of taste I guess. One is not objectively better writing than the other.
It's all grasping at straws anyways since they can literally still do anything they want and explain it anyway they want with the next two movies.
>>63816288
When would she have had the time to be trained? She's a young child in the flashback that shows her being left on Jakku. Did Luke teach her when she was like 3?
>>63816256
think thats a bit strong, but applicable only because they took 2 movies of material and shoved it into 1 movie, as I've stated all along.
in any case, you just brought that point to a discussion that wasn't about that point, so good on you.
>>63816289
Now Ren is going for more training.
>>63814960
She may not know him as Luke Skywalker.
>>63816276
>Struggled
She beat him without any injury. Don't forget the part where she bested him in the mental duel as well. She just discovered her powers so why the fuck was there a need for her to beat Kylo Ren? Kylo literally could have been a goal and obstacle she needed training to overcome. Oh too bad she already beat him.
>>63815301
You fucking scum I'd kick your virgin ass if I you were in front of me. Why is it white people steal movies all the times and shit off the internet yet blacks are labeled thugs and thieves?
>>63816338
It is a yes or no question
>>63815175
>No consequences
Han Solo fucking dying
Her friend getting his spine fucking severed
>>63816360
the mental duel was a standoff.
Ren is clearly prone to letting his emotions and lack of conviction decrease his efficacy, and the turning point of their duel (which he was winning) is when he waivered and offered to train her.
>>63816342
And so is Rey. What is the point of having Rey beat Kylo aside from showing she is Mary SueWalker?
>>63815244
Or because she's his cousin.
>>63816360
Are you forgetting when she got flung against the tree and knocked out and was constantly on defense getting pushed back towards a cliff. She only bested him because he was significantly injured, unfocused, and not fully trained himself.
>>63816391
which i answered
>>63816336
more like 7 I think
but again I'm sure Kylo and Rey already knew each other and that's why he couldn't kill her, it's not really a matter of strength
>>63816424
>Was a standoff
>Kylo didn't get the map he wanted
>Rey read his mind instead
Rey defenders are the fucking worst
>>63816360
Rey was already established as knowing how to fight in melee combat. The whole duel she was fighting with the lightsaber like it was a staff.
>>63816475
>read his mind
>thinks i'm defending something because i'm not into hyperbole and whining
>>63816494
>Her fending off 2 thugs means she knows how to fight in melee combat
>>63816406
Han solo would have gone to the base regardless, he and Finn were there primarily to stop the weapon. And it was Leia that talked Han into meeting Ren, subsequently killing him.
>>63816582
>Implying that wasn't showing the audience she knew how to fight
>Needing to have the film show her fighting off 10 trained swordsmen to get the idea she isn't a helpless woman
It's like you people need a pamphlet to follow along with when watching movies.
>>63816110
Guys
What if
Hear me out on this
What if Kylo Ren is actually the MC?
>>63816623
>Staff = Lightsaber
>Beating Kylo Ren a trained lightsaber user by Luke and Snork
How far are you going to reach now?
>>63816289
I'm no fucking psychic but it's not at all strange to think it'll be explained in the next movies. We all know there is way more to Ren and her past than we know, i'm also pretty sure it's no coincidence she fights with a staff.
>>63816690
*Rey
>>63816663
She didn't beat Kylo. The force beat Kylo.
The force is a living thing. He fucked Kylo up. I'm sure Rey didn't even know what the fuck just happened.
I think Kylo is going to go through more of the heroes journey than Rey. He faced way more adversity in the final chapter of this movie than she did. It will all be part of his redemption.
Also I noticed today when I saw the movie for a second time that Kylo starts losing badly once Rey gets a hit in on his injured side. It really is a case of his boltcaster wound hampering him.
>>63816650
MC who?
>>63816582
you can bitch about plausibility, but it was telegraphed foreshadowing.
>>63816650
What if Rey was actually a Sith all along with false memories implanted in her by Snoke and the force awakening in her is more like the dark side awakening, and what if Kylo Ren goes to the light side and the final movie is them facing off, only with their positions reversed?
>>63816730
If the force can just come and win fights automatically, that removes all tension. Rey could have defeated Snoke in the first 5 minutes and justified it with the force.
>>63816746
MC Rider And His Fatal Grabs
>>63816663
Pretty sure it was the bowcaster bolt to the gut plus the cut from Finn that enabled her to stand a chance.
>>63816730
You mean Dues Ex Machina?
>>63816747
Bitch foreshadowing you know a little bit of combat doesn't mean you get to beat a trained Lightsaber user the next moment.
>>63815255
>It's like you dense faggots haven't seen A New Hope
Of course he has its called now called The Force Awakens, the only difference is they added a Mary Sue character.
>>63816803
What about the mental duel?
>>63816840
maybe she's just the GOAT Force user
>>63816840
again, you are complaining about plausibility.
>>63815297
So she starts off perfect in using the force but then will be imperfect when she starts training. Gotcha.
>>63816730
wrong. The force is a living thing but it doesn't have a will, it has to be channeled. She channeled it with no known jedi training.
It has already been said in another thread, but Rey is:
A very talented pilot
A skilled engineer
somehow a competent force user by the end of the movie
A very skilled CQC fighter
Instantly liked and accepted by everyone, especially Han Solo who was slow to accept Luke
No obvious character flaws, intelligent and righteous
Massive fucking Mary Sue, the final fight was just the icing on the cake
>>63816788
>>63816814
Not saying you have to like it but that's what happened.
All the training we hear about fighting is like "let the force flow through you".
Luke even asks Obi-Wan if the force controls your movements when he's training with the lazer ball and Obi-wan says "partially"
The whole concept of being a good duelist in star wars is letting go and letting the force take over.
>>63816883
There is a difference between plausibility and completely bullshit. Learn to understand which is which.
>Rey can melee fight on Jakku
>Next moment she can fight off 10 sith lords while blindfolded and using only her barehands
Why? It is plausible.
>>63816899
They aren't blocking 100s of blaster bolts because they are just that good.
The force is guiding their hands for them. They just let go and their hands move.
>>63816935
Just because you can justify it doesn't make it good storytelling, if everything can be so easily decided without build up or proper character development it just makes everything predictable and stale.
I wonder how everyone justifying this would feel is Rey just easily crushes all opposition for the next two movies.
>>63816260
This is what I've said all along, but 4chan has been nothing but "nigger nigger nigger" all year. Finn was actually pretty good.
>>63817005
They have some active part in it. Why else would it take years of training to achieve competency. Also, as I said, the final fight was just the tip of the iceberg.
>>63816944
>learn to understand which is which
you're the one calling some magical element of movie about space magic bullshit rather than implausible. maybe you're the one who should be thinking about this more.
>>63816944
Ren was shot in the hip by a bowcaster, cut several times fighting Finn, just killed his own father and did still end up besting Rey in the duel.
Ren could have put any weight into his saber and Rey would have fallen into the chasm, but he instead tried to turn it. Taking advantage of such a classic villain mistake, Rey throws off Ren and cuts him a few times before escaping.
I don't know why everyone is saying that Ren just straight up lost to Rey in some kind of fair lightsaber duel.
>>63816869
I don't think she "won" that duel so much as she threw off his concentration by calling out his insecurities. And it wasn't even a mental duel, she was just trying to resist.
>>63817139
tried to turn her*
>>63817139
>Rey throws off Ren and cuts him a few times before escaping.
She had him disarmed, on the ground. She only left due to the chasm forming. I agree with the sentiment of your post though.
>>63816899
>She channeled it with no known jedi training.
again, maybe she's just that fucking goodon purpose
>>63817144
it is clearly implied she turned it around and read him while also preventing him from reading her, thus winning the encounter
>>63816209
Thanks for agreeing she is a Mary Sue.
>>63817063
Yes of course. But Rey literally closes her eyes and the force fucks Kylo up. She's hitting twice as hard and sends him sword arm flying black constantly.
It's not her strength it's the force. You can see it in Kylo's eyes when they are staring at her cross sabers. He's trying to block her but as soon as she gets it he knows he's fucked.
>>63817288
again, she's a poorly written Mary Sue
>>63817313
thanks for changing the topic.
>>63816384
>You fucking scum I'd kick your virgin ass if I you were in front of me.
Why are black people so violent?
>>63817317
Okay. Fine. But her being able to do that is still a contributing factor in her being a Mary Sue the whole movie.
To be honest the worst part for me wasn't when she bested injured kylo, but when she pulled that shit on jakku in the falcon (which she had never flown before) allowing Finn to shoot the last fighter with a broken turret. I was like fuck me, she's a better pilot than goddamn Poe, what can't she fucking do
>>63817336
Why are you changing the topic, the topic is if she is a Mary sue. You obviously agree she is.
>>63817460
someone else changed the topic. i never was discussing that, i came into the thread in response to something else desu.
>>63817317
So closing your eyes makes suddenly trained in the ways of the force and a true jedi knight. got it.
so is she lukes daughter?
leiah's daughter?both of their daughter?
>>63817460
yeah that's what I just said. Did you mean to reply to me?
>>63817454
apparently people who live in sandy wastelands are all good pilots
>>63817493
Obviously you are cause you keep bringing it up. It's ok we get it. you don't want to admit the truth that she is a Mary sue, but you'll feel a lot better if you do.
>>63817540
yes, and her unrealistically so
>>63817514
Sorry it was meant for >63817339
>>63817454
>she's a better pilot than goddamn Poe
Not sure about that, he killed 10 TIE fighters in under a minute in the fight above Maz's Castle
She was uncannily excellent though
>>63816754
I'd be okay with Rey becoming a sith
Can we at least agree that Kylo Ren was pretty based?who am i kidding
She is a legit use of a Mary Sue. It's not a bad thing if the character has some interesting dynamic in the story you are constructing.
A weak insecure, tragically manipulated underdog antagonist in a rivalry with a natural talent. The set up for Ren's arc is awesome.
>>63817668
I can agree. He was one of the highlights of the film for me. I thought Driver did a great job. I just wish he hadn't have taken his mask off when interrogating Rey. Would have made his meeting with Han on the bridge have more impact.
>>63815568
>>63815505
>>63815483
you fucking retards. the movie obviously implied that you form a connection between the two when you use that particular force ability, and someone who is particularly force sensitive would also be able to reap the benefits (not to mention the whole fucking point of kylo ren is that he's kind of a bitch and not a true sith lord again you're all fucking retards who just want to hate this to be edgy)
>>63814260
Listen little baby,
You're gonna get a lot of degrading and hurtful comments in this thread, but that ain't what I about.
Let me just say you are perfect the way you are you hear me sugar? PERFECT. don't ever change, you deserve everything and anything you want.
Stay safe for me baby girl.
>>63817554
i never once brought up mary sue, and the rest of your condescending bullshit is silly.
>>63817668
>has a more interesting backstory than anakin
>can block bullets
>definitely qter than sheev
>lets rey win because he's a gentleman
>kills le ebin OT mary sue han solo
>genuinely hates computers
>>63817717
Kinda wish he never took it off.
>>63817454
For sure. She is a complete Mary Sue and the force was used as deus machina more then people realize in this more.
I'm not arguing against that. I'm just trying to point out the flaws when people say "how can an untrained person beat Kylo" .
It's because of Deus ex machina and her being a Mary Sue that allows her to win.
Examples of Dues Ex Machina I noticed.
>Flying the falcon
>Her meeting Fin
>Poe's Tie fighter crashing next to the village that was attacked
>The door cutting the tentacles off
>The lightsaber duels
>The random chasm forming between Rey and kylo
>Lukes lightsaber
All served the plot to create a Mary Sue.
Not to mention the pointless McGuffin of the map that creates more plot holes.
>>63817339
Read the op. The topic is about her being a Mary sue
>>63817540
>good
>>63817590
>unrealistically so
She barely got the Falcon off the ground and almost crashed it right away. She forgot to put the shields up until Finn mentioned it. Her evasive maneuvers were largely ineffective. The only impressive thing she did was fly through the star destroyer, the layout of which she was already familiar with. She was a barely capable pilot. If you'd worked in a junk yard your whole life you could probably drive a car through a building whose layout your were familiar with.
>>63817694
>The set up for Ren's arc is awesome.
It's a shame they ruined it. I think his arc will be great in the next 2 films but he was so awful in TFA.
>main character is a white woman with a black male
I don't think this semen slurping movie is for me.
>>63817750
do you even know what a deus ex machina is?
>>63817424
if your people had been enslaved and oppressed for hundreds of years, you would be pretty angry too
>>63817757
im well aware, but i started responding to other people who were making other fallacious claims. then some dipshit just kept ignoring what i was posting and saying "just admit she's a mary sue"
that's pretty retarded tbqh, unless you think no thread should ever go on a tangent and that any ill-conceived tangential remarks shouldn't be countered.
>>63817737
It's ok if you wanna stay in denial. We understand. Admitting it is a very hard first step.
>>63817739
Know that you're memeing but
>Mary Sue Han Solo
>can't into force
>average marksman
>decent pilot
>initially disliked by every character that meets him
ok
>>63817792
an unexpected power or event saving a seemingly hopeless situation, especially as a contrived plot device in a play or novel.
>>63817717
Yeah, it definitely would have been better if that was the first time we see his face. I get the feeling that him showing his face means that he will end up being the anti-Anakin. I think that by the end of the trilogy he will turn to the light.
I kind of had the feeling he was gonna be just a Vader fanboy like a lot of people theorized, so when he stopped Poe's blaster shot and showed he was a force user (pretty powerful, at that) I was pretty surprised.
>>63815933
He still looks more handsome than Kylo Ren, though.
>>63817717
No it wouldn't. You needed the early window into his doubt and insecurity as set up to lend weight to the tragedy of murdering his father. That he was conflicted and child under the bravado but followed through is more interesting. The forgiveness of Han's touch on his face is more impactful for this also.
>>63817812
So your angry cause black people enslaved black people.
>>63817833
literally never denied it, in fact already agreed with it, you are now violating one of the biggest rules laid out by our lord and savior Kirk Lazarus
There being an explanation doesn't necessarily not make her a Mary Sue, it didn't bother me enough to make me like the movie less but I did notice how she really never fucks up or is shown to have personality deficiencies like Luke's chronic case of being a little bitch in ANH. Sure bad things happen to her but what makes a character interesting or relate-able is how they grow as a person. Here she goes from self assured scavenger badass ultra pilot to constantly crying mess who keeps getting thrown in over her head only to come out on top because the bad guys aren't on point.
>>63817823
So you got upset because people called you out for trying to derail the thread.
>>63817843
wat
>Mary Sue Han Solo
wat
>can't into force
he seemed pretty into force to me, but he has some obvious insecurities that weaken him
>average marksman
when does he even shoot a blaster?
>decent pilot
he doesnt even fly
>initially disliked by every character that meets him
???
??????
>>63817812
>America is the only country in the world
>>63816069
Not really.
>>63817874
>You needed the early window into his doubt and insecurity as set up to lend weight to the tragedy of murdering his father
To be fair they could have done that with the mask still on, it just would have been harder.
>>63817750
that fucking map is the biggest plothole
>R2 has 85% of it, the trail clearly leading into the missing area
>now have area to search
>he doesn't show them
what shit
>>63814105>Her ability to pilot was not explained, it could be she is a natural, it certainly helps she had home field advantage when fending of the two tie fighters
Its becauseshe's a Skywalker of course
Also Ren was also beating off injury and it was clear that Rey has power greater then RenBenso it made sense that she won.
>>63817878
nah i'm not angry. and i know full well that rich africans themselves played a pivotal role in the slave trade. doesn't mean that it's ok all of a sudden.
>>63817879
I sense the butthurt is really strong with this one.
okay guys I'm not gonna lie, I'm not a SW fanboy or anything but I've watched every movie in the saga at least once.
I felt TFA was ANH 1.5 (with traces of ESB) plotwise, and altough very familiar, I enjoyed it, I didn't love it or like it nor remember any memorable scene, maybe Kylo Ren's were the best.
But something I can't stand was Ren vs Finn and Rey's sabre fight. I mean come the fuck on! one is a FUCKING JANITOR and the other is a hobo who heard about the force like 2 seconds ago, and they could stand against and even defeat Kylo?
Correct me If I 'm wrong, but isn't Kylo supposed to be the new Vader? Fucking how was he defeated by noobs?
Yeah I saw that he was injuried but, even tough...
tbqh Rey's scenes after her disco very of the force are quite cringeworthy.
I am a director and an artist & I wish to make movies and even comics one day.
I'm an almost 20 white woman, but also an asexual, biromantic. There is very little representation of the asexual sexuality (or lack of) let alone any idea that romantic ties can be separate from sexual ones. There was a time I considered myself a biromantic lesbian. This was all before I was truthful to myself, that the idea of sex just didn't... mesh with me. I go through videos and posts like this. I vacume this information up, almost like I'm collecting it, in hopes that I can make fuller characters and maybe help some people feel better represented in media. Maybe one day people will be making videos about my works. I hope they do, I can use as much perspective as possible.
>>63817918
i responded to a flawed critique, and someone ignored the content of my post, presumably because they couldn't counter it. they then kept pushing a largely unrelated point that i wasn't really trying to argue about. why would i be upset? I'm more confused desu pham
>>63818004
10/10 pasta desu senpai
>>63817970
To be fair they did do the same thing in the first Star Wars.
Luke gets in an X wing with no training. You might be able to fly a T16 but you would still need to know what all the buttons in the cockpit do.
The Falcon doesn't even have a steering wheel or joy stick....
>>63817765
>conveniently leaves out the matrix shit she does with the broken turret
isn't the initial crashing because they were being shot by the TIE's? She still very good dude, it is implied she has been grounded on Jakku most of her life as well, since she doesn't have her own ship.
>>63817985
there were ESB and ROTJ elements in here too. it was a big transition from old to new, and they probably combined 2 movies worth of material into 1 movie. It was too ambitious and they fucked up as a result. Wound up botching character devleopments and the deathstar 3 debacle had zero tension.
>>63817765
She crashed it right away, showing she hasn't piloted anything like that before. 10 seconds later she's flying it just fine and already learned. 2 minutes later she's piloting through a crashed spaceship, doing sharp turns in narrow corridoors. 1 minute later she's doing an absurd flip to let Finn shoot the chasing fighter. Nigga nah.
>These idiots ITT thinking she was in Luke's academy and trained with Kylo
>Literally shows a flashback of her being dumped on Jakku as a child
>Kylo offers to show her how to harness the force, implying that she wasn't taught previously
Kylo knows who she is because she's Luke's daughter, they even dress the fucking same.
>>63817919
you said OT mary sue han solo.
I thought you were saying he was a mary sue in the OT.
Are you sure you're not confusing Han Solo with Kylo Ren
>>63818137
Luke having a daughter would require him sticking it in someone. Do Jedis do that?
>>63818214
Yes. Having a family and children is allowed, but you still have to keep the usual detachment from people. It's rough so not many Jedi do it, but there are some.
+ The Jedi order's gone anyway, Luke can do whatever.
>>63818214
We'll find out she is another immaculate conception like Anakin.
>>63818214
The new ones do.
>>63818214
Mara Jade bruh
>>63818260
>Luke is the mother
>>63818186
I think you are the one who is mistaken, my good friend. That anon was responding to me regarding Kylo Ren, neither of us said anything about Han Solo
>>63818085
If you are new to SW it surely is a enticing movie (my GF said she loved it) but I having watched the rest, couldn't help to feel like "been here, done that"
and I agree with you the Death Star 3.0 idea is fucking stupid, I feel it is really lazy scripting.
also, what do you people think about Leia's and Luke' appareances?
I liked Luke's (I believe it was one of the movies highest points) but Leia's... damn I remember smirking when she made her en trance in that dorky outfit and sincerely laughing when Han hugged her, like If Ford contractual explicitily prohibited a kiss scene
>>63817694
The only legit use of a Mary Sue is for satirical or comedic purposes, otherwise the audience will have no way to connect to the character. This is basic writing.
>>63818137
Oh and I forgot to mention
>BB8 knowing too, since he showed her the map and it was commented on that it was unusual he would show her the most important thing to The Resistance.
>>63818214
Motherfucking Luke helped save the galaxy. You know how much pussy he can get. Probably a shit ton of Skywalker kids throughout the galaxy.
>>63818313
Leia's botox face distracted me.
>>63818298
>I don't think I wanna know how he gave birth.
>>63818340
I guess I got the impression that the whole island hermit thing happened pretty quickly after 6, so he was too busy being religious to do the business.
>>63815648
ok, but transitioning from "no effect" mind trick to "and i'll drop my weapon" in the space of a few frames......... what did she do to earn that power?
My gripes with this film come to to some pretty simple principles that JJ has violated again and again. He's a fuckstick and is in his position because of who he knows, not what he makes.
>>63814105
She literally got trained as a kid and got amnesia when kylo wiped the order.
>>63818413
When did she have time to get trained? Look at the flashback of when she was left on Jakku. She was like 6-7. Are you telling me she got trained at kindergarten age?
>>63818064
Yeah, I didn't understand why he didn't just climb up to the other turret. Still, if you have the basic controls down and you're flying in the open, pointing the top of your ship at a ship that you've forced to fly through a small opening isn't exactly "matrix shit".
>>63818127
>She crashed it right away, showing she hasn't piloted anything like that before. 10 seconds later she's flying it just fine and already learned.
It doesn't take that long to figure out how a new vehicle responds to the controls. If you know how it works, you know where the controls are for different things, etc, this is not unbelievable. You could show someone with no experience how to fly a plane, for example, in about that amount of time, if it is already in the air. Take off and landing is where most of the skill is involved. If they already know how planes work and what they controls do, you could probably just hand them the controls and the would be fine.
>2 minutes later she's piloting through a crashed spaceship, doing sharp turns in narrow corridoors.
Sharp turns that she new to expect before she ever saw them. This isn't completely unimpressive, but it's not like she didn't know what the inside of the ship looked like.
>absurd flip
How is an absurd flip different from a regular flip?
Kylo only looks to be in his early 20's, Luke could've been teaching the new cats of Jedis for 10 years before Kylo went off.
>>63818413
Even if it's the case the movie does not even hint at this and that is lazy writing.
>>63815648
Well that's silly - if she didn't do those things, they wouldn't have had much of a movie, would they?
Maybe that's just looking a bit too deep into it?
>>63818409
i agree, but i think its more a matter of the task he was given by execs. Probably could have gone about it a different way, but this should have been 2 movies. If everything was more drawn out, people honestly wouldn't have had any of these problems.
>>63817733
>>63818409
She cleared her mind and stopped having self-doubt
>>63818467
>Does not even hint
Do you even subtle hints?
>>63818440
Holy shit those are some poor excuses. The absurd flip was when she shut off the engine at the perfect time so that fin could get the perfect shot with his fucked turret and then reignited the engine at the perfect time to prevent them from eating shit.
>>63818522
Nothing in that movie was subtle.
>>63818476
>things that are explicitly paraded for viewer consumption
>looking a bit too deep into it
>>63818433
Jedi order trained kids. She doesn't have to be trained on the jedi mind trick as long as she's trained on having a connection with the force
>>63818467
You can clearly see she's related to luke's jedi order in the vision
i did not read everything here, so maybe someone said this... but how is it not obvious that she's Luke's kid?
So Ren is Lukes son right? That's going to be the big twist of Episode 8?
Luke had a kid and gave it to Han and Leia since he was a Jedi and BenThis should be the most obvious of all things, his name should only be emotionally attached to Luke. Not Leia, not Han. But Luke.was raised alongside their daughter Rey. When both started showing signs of the force they were sent to Luke for guidance and when Ben went dark that hit Luke much harder because he was finally with his son and saw him turn to the Dark Side.
That would be a strong enough reason for Luke to exile himself.
>>63818409
If all stormtroopers are brought up like Finn was, they are probably the easiest to use a mind trick on. But even then it felt too quick.
>>63818594
How do you randomly figure out you can influence people to the point where you can make them do anything you want? Just having a connection isn't enough for something like that.
>>63818594
>you can clearly see
We see like 5 seconds of Luke during her hallucination, that doesn't necessarily mean she has prior relation to the Jedi, and the fact that she meets Han and he doesn't have shit to say about her when he has a deep connection to Luke himself further discredits your theory.
>>63818600
I don't know man, Leia even said to Han that Luke couldn't get through to him because he was a Jedi, but Han was his father. Seems like it would be a bit of an asspull.
>>63818600naw, no twist, Ren is han and leia's kid. As parents, they would be just as eager to pick "Ben" as a name. I mean, who else would they name him after? Jimmy Smits? Ray is definitely Luke's kid. She's waiting for her family to return.... Who exactly do you suppose her family is? That will be a big part of EP8, who her mother is, etc.
