>>63780925
I thought he was a dork

I am not going to read your entire post, but yes i agree that Kylo Ren felt more like Anakin than Anakin did.

>>63780978

Yea, thats kinda the point I think. Hes a stupid fucking kid who cant even see that hes being used. He thinks hes the shit, up until the point where he got shot up and sliced up by a couple of literal nobodies from the resistance.

>kylo ren is weaker than vader
>can literally hold blaster shots and people frozen in mid air

not even vader ever did shit like that, kylo is obviously capable of being OP as fuck, idk why they kept nerfing his powers as the film went on. If he had truly trained under luke and snoke then finn shouldn't have been able to survive more then 5 seconds in that fight, much less be able to get a few hits in on him.

If he is capable of all that crazy force shit he did he should be able to sense shit all across the galaxy and would've sensed rey's ability with the force.

Who cares?

Where's the korean download at?

>>63781092
Vader blocked blaster fire with the Force in ESB and choked people from across space. Vader also didn't get rekt like Kylo did.

>>63781092
vader stopped laser blasts with his fucking hand.

Vader was also more mature, refined.

>>63781092
>nerfing his powers as the film went on
He was getting his shit JUST as the movie progressed.

I would not be surprised if he lost his fight with Rey on purpose because he subconciously wanted to return to the light side.

>>63781149
Vader blocked blaster fire by putting his hand in front of it, not stopping it in the air

>>63781092

Vader absorbed blasts with his fucking hands bro wtf are you saying.

Kylo is strong, thats for sure. But hes like Ren.

Did any of you not realize that? Two children, both extremely force sensitive, both basically abandoned by their parents, both take complete opposite sides of the force.

Ren's parents left her on some planet. She spends her entire life waiting for them to return, never losing hope. Further showing her goodness of heart.

Kylo's parents sent him off to live with his uncle. He basically feels abandoned by his parents, and he resents them for it. Further pulling him towards the dark side.

>>63781092
Vader didn't even have to stop blaster shots, he just raised his fist and they did nothing to him

in general though don't get too caught up in star wars power that's displayed on screen, sometimes artistic freedoms are justified. When Luke eventually fights, and I'm 100% sure he will, I'm fully expecting some insanely cool displays of power

>>63780925
I found Kylo to be best written and overall most interesting character (competition was sparse though). He's a young man filled with doubt and confusion who's being seduced by the dark side. Emotion filled, conflicted person who tries to hide behind a mask, looking to appear more tough and intimidating than he actually is

>>63781253
Aww fuck Im too high, I wrote Ren instead of Rey.

>>63780925

What do you mean by depth? He is an edgy idiot he kills his father for no reason other then muh Snoke is wise. He is pathetic. I doubt anyone would care if he died.

Also Anakin / Vader never lost to a Mary Sue bitch like this boy whore. The scene where him and the slut are both using the force to get that lightsaber was retarded as fuck. There is no way she is more powerful then him in the force like that when he is a Solo but fuck it.

>>63781354

1. No, he kills his father because his father abandoned him. He resents Han.

2. Kylo Ren had not only been shot up, but he's also nowhere near as powerful as Vader was.

3. Two children, Rey and Ren, both extremely force sensitive, both basically abandoned by their parents, both take complete opposite sides of the force.

Kylo was a whiny babby.

You can talk all you want about him being misguided, but he came off as a whiny, emotional babby. I never got the sense he was dangerous. I never got the sense he was a galactic threat. I thought he was a whiny faggot 14 year old edgelord throwing tantrums.

>>63781404

But Han didn't abandon him even in that moment he said come home and in response Kylo Ren declined. Kylo Ren abandoned Han because "Snoke is wise"

The argument that Kylo Ren was injured doesn't really fly with me because surely Rey was too when she got knocked up against the tree that fall didn't look to good plus she is a small skinny women that should have hurt

I think it's pretty impressive that he tanked a bowcaster bolt to the stomach which would have killed 99.9% of characters in ther saga so far and still held his own, only losing because of a sudden powerup out of nowhere, and escaping with his life

Have midi-chlorians been retconned?


Is "force sensitive" the same thing as having a high midi-chlorian count?

>>63781666
>Have midi-chlorians been retconned?
Not technically but I doubt they'll ever be mentioned again

>Is "force sensitive" the same thing as having a high midi-chlorian count?
Yes

>>63781639

Him losing to a powerup out of nowhere ruined him, though. He should have still beat their ass to show how strong he is and that Rey still has a long way to go, and it would have allowed Kylo to become even higher on his own power.

Instead he loses to Female Jedi Kirito.

>>63781688
Thanks for the quick answer.

Do they say "force sensitive" in the movie?

Thanks again.

>>63781730
The alien says she knows of the force but isnt a jedi.
so vaguely yes.

Poor man's Darth Caedus.

>>63781719
It should have been the other way round at the last fight, Kylo Ren should have wrecked Rey who was left on the floor about to die before the floor split and Ren walks away to leave her to die, it would have made more sense with how he got off the planet instead of lying on the floor right by a massive crack 2 minutes before the planet explodes yet Hux still managed to find and rescue him
Then Chewie should have entered with Finn over his shoulder to help Rey on to the falcon, at least that way the OT members show their power over the new weak characters

>>63781231
Why is that worse?

>>63781513

yeah but it never felt like the movie didn't want you to think of him that way.

he doesnt want anyone to think of him like that but the movie didn't.

>>63781860

Yeah, that would have been good. Having him absolutely rek them to show he's serious and all they can do is flee from him while he sinks deeper into his own hubris because he thinks no one can challenge him. Instead what we got made him look like a butthurt kid being slapped down by his big sister. I lost what little faith I had in the future of this franchise, right there.

It was bad.

>>63781915

But you see, even if the bad guy is supposed to be a dumb kid, you don't want him to look like a whiny, ineffectual babby.

>>63781916

> I lost what little faith I had in the future of this franchise, right there.

Me too, Star Wars is done now. Disney should have never bought it :(

>>63781916
I was hoping this would happen then Luke would appear and push his shit in with Force alone, making him realize the difference between an angry young forcetrickster and a real Jedi

>>63781957

we literally saw him throwing tantrums and rejecting his parents to prov hes badass and cool and all that.

I just think he is actually fairly weak and thats refreshing when the dark side users have always been more "powerful", rey being light sided and OP as fuck gives kylo some cognitive dissonance about "the power of the dark side", I thought all this made him the most interesting villain yet.

People aren't as pissed off about him killing Han as I expected

Besides, doing that was the struggle for Kylo in this movie. By doing that he "won" his battle - fighting Finn and Rey was like an afterthought so I don't mind that he got his shit pretty severely pushed in. He escaped, and he hasn't even finished his training yet. He'll be back in VIII as a more mature and intimidating character and he'll always be the man who killed Han Solo.

>>63780925
well done lad.

check your bank account to see if it went through

>>63781185
>I would not be surprised if he lost his fight with Rey on purpose because he subconciously wanted to return to the light side.
That was my conclusion as well.

Plus, chewie had shot him with the fucking bowcaster so I bet he wasn't feeling so good in that fight. So it was a combination of self doubt, confusion, rage, and pain that made him fuck that fight up so badly.

I'm certain he will be back and much more tough in the next movie.

>>63780925
all three prequels were about the evolution of anakin, his path to becoming darkside. kylo is already much fucked before force awakens even starts, seeing his final nudge into the dark side when he helps harrison ford get autists to stop mailing him about the franchise

must admit even the smell of alan drivers balls is a better actor than hayden christensen.

>>63780925
DISNEY > lucas
DISNEY > lucas
DISNEY > lucas
DISNEY > lucas

>>63782129

Thanks again, JJ.

>>63782063

The Jedi were stronger than the Sith all the fucking time, the entire shitty prequel trilogy with Anakin and shit were about how Christopher Lee and Palpatine had to be all shadowy and scheming because they had to wait for "the right moment" or the Jedi would instantly crush them.

Luke was stronger than Vader and he was the only Jedi alive, while the Sith ruled over a galactic empire.

What I want to see is just a real fucking fight. Like in the end of A New Hope when you have lightsabers clashing and you can feel Vader's raw power as he forces Obi Wan back. Not a bunch of Force tricks bullshit. Not some whiny babby. Not some whiny babby losing literally all his villain cred in one second because the mary sue protagonist realizes she's just the best at everything.

They could have shown Kylo Ren was a dumb, misguided kid who was nonetheless extremely powerful, a force of nature. Instead we got a babby. A whiny babby who jobs in the first movie. How will they salvage that? He's not charismatic, and he's not strong. He's nothing.

>B-b-but he got shot with the thing

Rey literally never used the Force in her life and she just closes her eyes for five seconds and suddenly becomes the Jedi God and Kylo is powerless before her. No amount of excuses will change that.

Reaching the trilogy, ,,,, Anakin was actually good, the struggle with two g and right emotions .. it was on point. He was more evil in episode 3 than the entire original trI log.

Hayden nailed it...

Kylo I don't know until I see next one. So far so good. He really isn't powerful and struggles with emotions and feeling the light

What really bothered me the most about the movie was how some complete novices who never used a lightsaber before could just pick it up and start fighting with it and not only do decently, but also not kill themselves.

Lightsabres are supposed to be weapons that require a lot of training and mastery and it felt like that was desecrated really when they could just pick it up and start swinging like that. I mean, a sword where the blade itself has no weight and is made of light? And anything it touches is dead? Surely that must be easy to fuck up.

>>63782267
I think it's way too early to judge Rey like that. We know nothing about her past and I'm sure there will be some kind of plot twist in the next movie again. I bet she was trained in the past but somehow lost her memories. Why else would she already be so powerful?

>>63782195
hello normie scum

>>63782267

>Becomes the Jedi God

All she did was push him away and hit him in the leg. Would hardly call that being a Jedi god.

Fucking autists, go back to your grimdark DC capeshit.

>>63782406
he's right you know, george got exposed years ago

>>63782382
>Lightsabres are supposed to be weapons that require a lot of training and mastery

Maybe in the old EU. It's never brought up in the films.

>>63782432
i'd rather george serve me shit on a plate than disney produce it in a factory.

>>63782267
>Luke was stronger than Vader

vader is an old husk of a burn victim when he faces Luke. As far as we know the two only remaining sith are these old fart knockers vader and sheev.

>>63782437
Well, okay. I suppose you're right.

Rey tapped into her feminism which awakened her force powers

well done Jew Jew

A man who tanks an on target bowcaster bolt to the torso, is constantly beating on the wound during the fight because of the pain. He then gets slashed by one of these new age storm troopers who have anti-jedi training.

Loses to a girl who physically beats two grown men earlier in the movie with a metal stick as opposed to a laser stick.

Kylo Ren isn't Vader. Strong with the force maybe but he's obviously no master. And a far shot from a true sith. This is his driving point. He wants to be like his grandfather, as strong as his grandfather but he knows he's not.

>>63782034
I thought when Kylo Ren had mentioned the force and Rey closed her eyes she was trying to call Luke, that would have been a badass moment for him to appear

>>63782382
It's not like Finn was flipping around and shit. So you hit yourself when you swing a baseball bat?

What if the planet exploding beneath them had been the reason the fight ended.

Then they could've made Ren not look like such a punk, and made it so Rey was just lucky. Instead of giving her micro-transaction-tier powerups.

>>63782520
If it's a baseball bat made of light that has no weight then that'd be an easy thing to do

Why did he just stare at every character?

>catch rebel's best fighter
>stare at him for so long that he makes a quip about how long you're going without saying anything

>get him in the chair
>stare at him for a bit before interrogating him

>get girl with star data in interrogation chair
>stare at her for a bit before extracting information with the force

>suddenly dad walks up
>stare at him
>almost literally tell him "I want to kill you"
>stare at him again some more

>showdown with traitor trooper
>stare at him a bit before the fight

>showdown with girl after beating trooper
>stare at her before the fight like the last guy

>>63782634
The fight would have had to end before that to give both of them a chance to escape seperately

>>63782743
fair enough

although the empire base was enjoying some pretty gnarly fissures while the fight was still going on, right?

>>63782796
sorry, I meant new order* base

>>63782796
That's what happened though, they would have carried on fighting if it wasn't for the huge fissure that split and separated the two, even if Ren was pretty much beat at that point

>>63782968
I suppose. I guess what I'm saying is, I'm imaging what if the fight almost never begun.

Like it was about to begin. But oh fuck, giant fucking crack in the planet. Save it for when Rey should actually be able to hold her own. Not give her power up out of nowhere.

>>63781688
You know, I never actually minded midichlorians.
I always saw them as a result of the force, not the cause of them. Like if they 'fed' off the force, the more force sensitive a person was, the mode midichlorians they could sustain.
I don't think that's too far fetched.

>>63783050
Yeah true, thy shoehorned that lightsaber fight in just so there was something for the audience to watch, it should have been Finn fighting with the lightsaber while Rey through shit with her new force, at least it would have made sense that they'd have fought him off 2v1

I liked Kylo Ren, for more interesting than anything that the prequels gave in terms of antagonists (other than Palpy)

>mfw I was watching the flick and when he called vader his grandfather thought to myself: what the fuck? Han and Vader aren't related but only now, a few hours later, realized that Leia's dad is his grandfather too

I thought he was a good character. It was also nice to see a jedi actually suffer damage from a blaster shot

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>>63780925
>Fight starts.
>That aggresion.
>Mfw he punches himself in the ribs and starts bleeding to get more angry/crazy.

>>63781666
The yellow grandma alien on the poster talks with Rey about the force and how it's all around everything. But doesn't mention midi-chlorians. (So I guess the force is now an outside thing instead of a inside thing). I could be wrong but I think that that's what the ''take it all in''-line referred to in the trailer (Don't know if Grandma-alien actually said that in the movie).

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>wants to become as great as Darth Vader
>gets himself sniped by a wookie

>>63780925
instant mastery of the force?

She didn't instantly mastered it, she just became aware of her powers and started experimenting with it more. Remember how she tried to use the mind trick on the storm trooper and it failed the first two or three times?

Plus it's called, "The Force Awakens"

Makes a lot of sense actually.

>>63780925
Are you serious?he has no reason for turning bother than "muh power!". Only antsy teens would like him. Anakin became evil because he had premonitions of the one he loved dying and was told the dark side could save her.

>>63781404
>ones been training with the force for years under the dark lord and Luke before that
>other one just learned about the force 2 hours before
>THEY'RE EVEN! THEY BOTH STRONG WITH THE FORCE NATURALLY!
this is why it's shit. The force isn't like going super saiyan. It takes practise,dedication,hard work,commitment,not "muh naturally good at it :^)"

>>63781571
She's Luke's daughter. He's Solo's son. Rey's father's lightsaber had a natural calling to her. Kind of seemed like a light-side relic of sorts.

Rey was hurt, yes, but Ren was shot up and got knicked by Finn. He was weak, and probably had a lot of clashing emotion after killing his father. I fucking loved when Ren was smashing his fist against his wound, almost like he was trying to use the pain as a driving force. Like whenever he had some emotional clashing about his father, he slammed his wound to fuel his pain and keep fighting. That's why I think he made so many mistakes.

>>63783706
He was turned because of the negative emotions that were born from being sent to Luke and away from his parents. Not to mention Han had probably left by then too.

My reasoning for Rey being able to best Ren was more like Rey wasn't the won actually protecting herself, more like the force channeling through her to protect her. After that battle, she's probably not going to be able to use the force as easily. Almost like Aang going into an Avatar state without being able to control it

>>63784001
That's not how the force works.

>>63783851
Are you stupid? Rey is obviously more powerful with the force. Raw power. Kylo Ren is trained but when going directly up against Rey he fails (mind reading and pushing the light saber).

This is why Anakin was such a big deal, he was much more powerful with the force than the Jedi were used to seeing. Everyone is not equal.

>>63784047
Anakin in his prome got btfo by obi Wan.

>>63784047
>both have Skywalker blood
>the one that never trained is obiously more powerful
Makes perfect sense

>>63781253
>REN
>REY
>reN
>teY

>No
>Yes

Whoa

>>63780925
I was thinking the same thing OP. He's kind of just a young angsty baby who happens to be really powerful. He throws temper tantrums and clearly wants to rebel against his parents.

However I don't agree about his inner struggle because unlike Anakin in the prequels we don't see how or why he turned evil. Ok we know he doesn't like Han Solo and he wants to impress this Snoke guy... but we don't know why.

But at least unlike Anakin it seems that Kylo turned to the dark side because he was truly seduced by it and enjoys being evil. Whereas Anakin was basically just tricked.

>>63780925
>better version of Anakin from the prequels
that's setting the bar pretty low

>>63781860
Why wouldn't he jump and finish her off?

She had reason to abandon him, he doesn't have a reason to abandon her

>>63781231
He absorbed the blasters energy which according to wookiepedia is a pretty rare and difficult force power to master as opposed to using some telekenesis. (yes I know how autistic my post sounds)

>>63781404
>he's also nowhere near as powerful as Vader was.

He's stopping blaster bolts and holding people in the air while walking around and doing other things. Vader needed to stay still with his hand up just to choke someone. In the first 20 minutes they make him out to be much more powerful than Vader. Then when he takes off his mask it's all downhill from there.

so, basically, rey is a jedi consular and kylo is a sith marauder.

I think Rey will succumb to the dark side, though I'd like to see Kylo on the light and Finn become a jedi.

>>63783573
The title isn't an excuse for contrived bullshit, it doesn't make sense that some nobody bitch was able to kick the ass of a guy who has had extensive training with the force and with a lightsaber after she got slammed against a tree and fell over 20 feet on her face.

>that fight between Finn and the Storm Trooper at the smuggler castle cantina place

>>63783050

Then how will all the female viewers know that they're special and they can do anything they want to if they believe in themselves?

>>63784220
yeah that fight was bullshit, making rey a mary sue was a stupid move by JJ. It would have been so much better if he kicked her ass and she just barely manages to keep herself and Fin alive before the giant fissure separates them and forces them to flee the planet.

>>63781639
this.

They showed how it completely fucked people up, and he takes a shot like a champ.

>>63784603
When Vader would force choke people he didn't really have a reason to move around so he didn't also keep in mind that special effects were far more limited back in the late 70s and early 80s then they are now. Rey basically said that he's afraid that he won't be as powerfull as vader when she read his mind which implies that Ren believes that he isn't as strong as vader.

>>63780925

No, he is a deconstruction of Luke Skywalker in Ep4-6 if knew about his real Father (Darth Vader) and wanted to emulate him.

The irony is that his namesake (Obi-Wan Kenobi) hid "Luke" for that reason alone and never told them the truth until Ep6.

>>63783573
>Masters the force after using it three times
Makes total sense, after all it's not like Anakin or Luke had to go through any sort of training to use the force effectively.

>>63780925
Kylo Ren would be much more interesting if the actor who portrayed him didn't have such a fucked up face, the same goes for finn. They both project weakness and the movie suffers because of it.

>>63780978
That's the point. He's still not a sith lord. He's just a kid that started the path to the dark side.

It was so refreshing to see that the villain wasn't another le epic ultimate badass disfigured dark sith lord. You could tell he was still holding some good in him before it was Leia said so. He was my favorite character.

The music sucked ass though.

>>63784953
This. Their acting isn't even that good.

>>63784966
He was too much of a pussy though.

>>63784198
Two master level Jedi, Anakin, blinded by rage and hate jumped at Obi-Wan when he got the upper hand, leaving himself vulnerable to getting his shit cut up because he thought he was the hottest shit there ever was.

That was Anakin's character flaw. He was the most capable Jedi, the best duelist, the most powerful with the force, but he was not wise in the least.

He took the most dangerous course of action and Obi Wan capitalized on it, because he knew Anakin. Anakin just thought he was the hottest shit and invincible.

>>63781666
>>63783419
It's both. Midichlorians are part of the "Life creates it, makes it grow" part of it, The Living Force. When things die, their Living Force becomes part of the greater Cosmic Force, the "Binds the universe together" part.

The Living Force feeds into the Cosmic Force and in turn, the Cosmic Force can be called upon to help those with the Living Force. So its your basic Circle of Life shit.

Source: The CG Clone Wars show's "Yoda goes on a Vision Quest" arc.

>>63784347
I wouldn't even say he loves the dark side. He literally tells Snoke the light is trying to bring him back and its causing a rift in him.

>>63784997
Is he dead? Maybe he'll be better in the sequel

>>63781092
Yeah, but every instance of Kylo Ren using the force spectacularly was in a situation where he wasn't in danger. Like, he stopped the blaster bolt because he sensed the guy about to shoot him, he knew this was going to happen. He could also do crazy force shit when people were chained to a table for him to interrogate. But notice that he was only able to stop rey when she wasfar enough away that he could focus on only that. He's not a jedi that could do flips and shit while force choking people. he's got a lot of potential, but no focus.

>>63785041
Midichlorians aren't the force, they're just bacteria that's attracted to force sensitive individuals, they're an indicator of a force users power level not their actual magic.
>A misconception exists that rather than being indicators, midi-chlorians actually are the Force or create it; there is no canonical basis for this belief
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Midi-chlorian/Legends

>>63781092
>is trained by Luke, but somehow still gets btfo by a stormtrooper who has no idea how to use a lightsaber
>gets btfo by a girl who has never been trained to use the force or use a lightsaber
>gets btfo by chewbacca

My theory is
>Kylo got sent to train with Luke
>he realises how shitty he is as a Jedi and as a force user even though his grandfather was the most powerful person in the galaxy
>turns to the dark side to try and become more powerful because he sucks ass at being a Jedi

>>63785092
He's definitely not dead m8

>>63781253
No. It would be stupid if they pulled ANOTHER "I am your father/brother/sister/uncle/distant cousin" twist. People would just know that they're trying to copy the originals. Its better if they just leave Rey as a force sensitive child that the force brought to them.

>better writers
>better actor
>better director

whoa surprise

>>63785155
>there is no canonical basis for this belief
Except for "The Phantom Menace."

>>63785201
did you get to the end of that post and forget what the beginning said?

>>63781354
>he is an edgy idiot that kills his father for No reason.

Han was the only obstacle in the way to the path to the dark side. He was the only tie to the light that Ren had and what made him doubt his choice of beckmi g a sith. So he made a decision to destroy that obstacle.

That scene alone was better than the entire prequels.

>>63781860
>OT members show their power over the new weak characters
You remember how, in 1977, the actors in a new hope all seemed like misguided, angsty twenty somethings with no power that succeeded through sheer luck half the time?
Yeah.
That's what's happening here.
Because there is no point to making a new movie in the franchise if they are just going to make the new characters seem lame as shit in comparison to the orig trig.
What you're suggesting is what made the prequels awful: Overreliance on the old material (inclusion of r2, c3po, chewbacca, etc.) because they didn't want to make new and likable characters to star in the franchise. At least this way, the reboot has a chance to grow. I personally enjoyed all the characters.

>>63785201
what part of "there is no canonical basis for this belief" do you not understand? Midichlorians don't cause the force, he says that they "speak to us to tell us the will of the force" that doesn't mean they cause it also he says without them life couldn't exist and we wouldn't know about the force which makes sense because everyone would be dead. He says that they help people communicate to hear the will of the force not "midichlorians are the force"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoVpSPXGCvc

>>63783706
Not to mention Anakin's gradual disillusionment with the jedi order and their crazily restrictive teachings and unwillingness to actually help situations in an effort to keep the peace.

It was executed poorly in the prequels, but it's a great justification for turning to the dark side. Sheev was the only one getting shit done.

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>>63785295

>only

No. There is another.

>>63780925
>I dont understand why so many people are bitching about how "weak" his character was
Because it makes him completely non-threatening. He got owned by Rey without any training at all. It feels like people should laugh at him whenever he shows up because he behaves like a brat, looks like a teenager, and fails at everything.

>>63782382
I mean, they require training to use well, but if you're basically just using it like a really really hot baseball bat, it's pretty easy. I mean Finn gets his shit rekt by a normal storm trooper with a shock batton and Rey was only able to fight a kid who was emotionally unstable after murdering his father and physically usntable after being hit by a bow caster (the SW equivalent of a fucking handheld mortar).

I mean, you are correct, I think the next film will show that these cocky and overconfident kids will get rekt by anyone that actually is close to being competent, just like how luke thought he was hot shit in IV and V up until he went against a real jedi.

>>63782489
this desu

>>63782675
Because Kylo Ren is an autist. Clearly. Like, I'm not saying that to denigrate his character, but I think a large part of his construction as a character is that he's trying so hard to be vader, that he thinks that the way to do it is to be quiet behind the mask. Remember, Vader didn't really talk that much, he would just stand there, breathing, staring, and then would say a few lines.

Basically, Kylo Ren is doing a really shitty darth vader impression because he's insecure. That's why he's so cool and unflappable until he takes off the mask. Because with the mask on, he's Kylo Ren the sith trainee. Without it, he's a scared kid who's putting on a show.

>>63785349
Well, that's, like, your interpretation, man.

>>63785331
But the point is that they are more experienced in these fields, Rey had been a scavenger on Jakku until like a week before this and Finn was a stormtrooper who refused to kill so was stuck on sanitation, I don't deny that as the trilogy goes on they should get more powerful and overtake the old characters but at this point they should be carried by the old ones, just how without Obi Wan and Yoda in the OT Luke would still be weak and out of his depth

>>63783050
Personally, I'd like to point out to everyone talking about Rey being unable to use a lightsaber:
Her only weapon when we meet her is basically a giant spear stick thing. And if you notice, she uses the same spear stabbing technique with the lightsaber that she used with her spear.

>>63785295
And he just doesn't give a crap about Leia or something?

Why is he named Ben? Han nor Leia didn't know Obi Wan as Ben Kenobi, it makes no sense for them to name their son in his memory.

>>63785743
Hell, neither Han nor Leia really knew Obi-Wan at all. Han disliked the guy and Leia never even spoke to him.

>>63784042
really? read the canon novel version of Reveng of the Sith then, Obi-Wan becomes one with the Force on the bridge of the Invisible Hand, and it's pretty much the same as what Rey did

>>63785782
>Help me Obi Wan Kenobi, you're our only hope

Rey wins the fight because Kylo Ren is the real main character. The main character always loses the first battle because that makes for a better narrative.

>>63785848
I would be ok with this, but sjw-pandering won't allow it.

>>63784220
ever heard about genes and how they could differ? or do you presume that two children of an olympic athlete for example will have the same affinity for the same sport?
it's totally believable, that Rey got a bigger portion of the power

>>63785696
ohhhh, you know, that makes sense dude. Although, I would argue that this might follow the trend of the Orig Trig in that Rey seems so super powerful in this first one, gets cocky, goes off to fight Ren (or someone else) at full power and gets her ass handed to her because raw force power being unleashed against an emotionally unstable badly wounded BOY who is watching his super weapon collapse beneath him doesn't mean that she can beat him again.

>>63784997
>I want a gary stu villan

nothin personel kid

>>63785663
You're not wrong, your just an asshole.

>>63785735
Ren WAS trying to kill his mother and her lifes work by blowing up the resistance base, it's not like he wasn't also pissed at her. He's probably just more pissed at Han for being an absentee father than he is at Leia for being emotionally distant.

>>63785944
Is it too much to ask for to have a villain that isn't a complete pussy and that isn't weak as shit when the plot demands it.

>>63784938
>masters it
yeah nah
more like she has a few moments when she can really grasp the force and use it to overpower Kylo
should the duel be prolonged, or if Kylo wouldn't have been shot by a bowcaster, Rey would have been rekt

>>63785944
How about a fallible, three-dimensional protag to go with a fallible, three-dimensional antag? Or would having Rey fail at something trigger too many feminists?

>>63786001
I mean, she is incompetent in that she was basically tricked into thinking that her parents would come back for her. Like, she's emotionally damaged and not a perfect mary sue. She'll get her shit rekt in the next movie, trust me.

>>63785649
this

>>63786062

It is pathetic you think that is some huge flaw. Most mary sues have parent issues.

>>63785915
How many films can you name where a strong female main character gets completely wrecked by a male opponent, at the same extent as a loss of limbs and being dropped in lava? Even if a company was going to attempt that sort of ending, it's definitely not going to be Disney
Rey is just going to get stupidly powerful with no opposition or weakness

>>63786089
>muh Mary Sue
well, she let two vicious beasts attack themselves and Han+Chewie desu

I know it's really tempting to vent your autism into this and call this a feminist bullshit and major mary sue-ism, but she really doesn't look like one at this point
sure the signs are there, but we'll have to wait until the next film to determine that

>>63786089
Right, right, but it's different for Rey.

She's not Mary Sue "ohh I'm so sad daddy issues" she's literally got a childlike intellect where she thinks these people are going to come back at all. She creates prisons for herself and is kind of a twitchy savage.

>>63786125
Eh, I don't know, Leia and Padme got rekt at various times throughout the series AND Rey did get slammed against a tree pretty hard.

>>63782335
kill yourself and rid the world of your ellipses

rude sage

>>63785844
She knew OF him, she didn't know him. They didn't have any kind of emotional bond.

>>63786383
Padme got force choked, Leia got knocked out by a tree on Endor, at the rate that Rey's power level is growing (considering she can overpower Ren 20 minutes after learning she even has the force), it'll take more than just a tree to slow her down, something which the SJW Disney board aren't prepared to do in case it offends someone

>>63783313
Yea I thought that was pretty cool and fitting for angry angsty sith.

>>63780925
He was a shittier version of Revan from KoToR.

>>63784220
Well if rey is lukes daughter it does make sense as luke trained all his life to be a jedi and leia didnt at all

>>63786575
Yeah, but I don't think that's just an SJW thing. People have ALWAYS been more cautious about injuring female characters in movies. Like, it's not a social justice thing, it's just a western culture thing.

I mean, granted there are dumb SJWs that didn't like Fury Road because it treated male and female characters equally, but still.

Any actual, sensible feminist would argue that it's wrong to put female characters into a box where they can't be hurt just as it's wrong that male characters can get beaten to shit without anyone making an emotional deal out of it. Like, if a woman gets grievously injured, it's unexpected, tender and frightening, but men are just expected to deal with that shit.

>>63786979
>Any actual, sensible feminist

A vanishingly small minority, virtually a mythical being at this point

>>63787091
Sure, but we're talking about ideas. The good version of feminism is still around and could be promoted even if the loudest members of the community don't utilize it. It's in the same way that people still talk a lot about gnosticism and use it in stuff like the Matrix or The Elder Scrolls even though there aren't a ton of proselytizing gnostics around demanding that gnostic entertainment be made.

>>63780925
He was actually done very well, I agree, especially from a Star Wars villain perspective. A clear and empathize'able inner struggle that developed quite well with the Han scene, which still should've been done better, but from his perspective it was well done.
Most characters were well done, but the pacing and overall story sucked so badly. That the components of the movie, like Kylo, and BB-8, were much greater than the whole I think will be the verdict.

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He's like this guy from the Zelda games.
They weren't allowed to make someone more badass than the historic villain, like Vader.
So they made someone imperfect, crazy, and in SOME ways badass.

But he will be overshadowed by the real villain eventually.
I just don't give a SHIT about Snoke.
"Tall, Intimidating Man" comprised solely of CGI whereas 99% of the cast are wearing costumes was just annoying.
They can win me over though if they're really pulling a Wizard of Oz situation where he's nothing like this weird projection of himself.
Fingers crossed, but since it's Andy Serkis I have my doubts.

Can we at least agree that Poe and Finn were great?

The idea of Stormtroopers being some of the biggest victims of the First Order is interesting. I liked that Finn was basically a coward when faced with his former allies. And the only thing to make him think about going against them was poon.

Poe is just a badass. I need more Poe in episode 8.

>>63786979
*tips

>>63787802
So wait, I'm a fedora tipper if I seem pro SJW but I'm also a fedora tipper if I'm super anti SJW.

I'VE BEEN ON THIS STUPID SITE FOR SIX YEARS AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU BASTARDS WANT YET.

>>63781149
Vader was also a more accomplished saber fighter, Ren had a sloppy style.

Finn was able to stand up to him for a while until Rey got off her ass and just accepted she was a Jedi.

Also was it just me or did they really drop heavy subtext that she was Luke's daughter or at least related to him in some way.

>>63785168
>My theory is
>>Kylo got sent to train with Luke
>>he realises how shitty he is as a Jedi and as a force user even though his grandfather was the most powerful person in the galaxy
>>turns to the dark side to try and become more powerful because he sucks ass at being a Jedi

Ren's entire character screamed of this, also he has a ton of indicators that he may suffer from multiple personalities.

>>63786979
I guess so, but the reason they've been put in to this protective box is because the female characters are put on a pedestal as fragile, innocent ladies
I just think it was wrong to give Rey so much power when they're not going to give her the weakness to match it, admittedly it's the first film so who knows what could come out of it but I don't see Disney giving her any real struggle other than long lost daddy issues
Like with Anakin, he was stupidly powerful but the older and stronger he got, the more unbalanced he was which led to him fucking up
So far there hasn't been any signs of this in Rey's character, she's just there as the strong independent indestructable woman
When I was watching it in the cinema and it was the Ren v Rey battle there were women in the audience who were actually shouting and encouraging her like 'come on girl, you can do this'
That's who Disney are pandering for and that's why they're not going to fuck up her character

>>63788155

This, so much. She has no drawback. People legitimately believe her being naive and wanting her parents back is this huge drawback when it just serves to make her more innocent and pure and they didn't do shit with it anyway.

Rey was a woman to pander to women and waifuniggers, and she is perfect because giving her any kind of vulnerability, character flaws, having her suffer, etc. will piss off feminists. This is why she's so boring.

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>>63785743

He is actually son of Luke but was adopted by Leia and Han for unknown reasons. Luke named him Ben after Kenobi. You heard this from here first.

>>63780925
I agree entirely. At first I thought he was meant to be Vader 2.0, but then he took off his mask. He looked like such a fucking loser.

For a while I was disappointed; 'this guy isn't scary'. But then you see him struggling to STAY dark. Being tempted by the light. He was meant to be weak. He isn't a master of anything. He had emotional outbursts (true to a sith ) and daddy issues.

Kyle Ren is not a matured villain, but rather one just starting out. Honestly this felt just as much his origin to me as theirs.

The fight in the woods was legit to me. We don't know how gid he is at combat. He was pretty severely wounded to start, and just did something emotionally more than difficult.

We're going to see a lot of character growth for him and the girl.

What did bother me was how she took so intuitively to the force.

>>63780925
He's a bitch ass nigga and I'm fine with it.

>>63780925
>Also, I dont understand why so many people are bitching about how "weak" his character was. He was supposed to be weak.

I don't know. He's set up from the beginning to be this strong guy. Only force sensitive guy in the army and stuff. Pretty much like Vader in episode four. He stopped a blaster shot mid air for gods sake.

Then he turns weaker and weaker as the movie progresses without any real reason why.

>>63788436
I was glad they went this rout, it would have been so easy to make it cliche Vader clone.

>>63781639
Really good point. The movie actually made a big deal about how strong those were.

>>63781092
>not even vader ever did shit like that

He did. It just didn't look as impressive since it was in the fucking seventies and eighties.

Basically if Episode IV was remade today, it would be The Force Awakens.

>>63781719
But he isn't powerful or scary. He's dangerous. I think you're expecting a mature powerful villain, when in reality he's not meant to be hot shit.

>>63788509
He has the potential to be powerful but he has a lot of struggles in his head, especially after just killing his dad, I guess that distracted him from unleashing his full power
But he's a work in progress as much as the other two (other than Rey who's already fucking Demi God)

>>63782063
>just think he is actually fairly weak and thats refreshing when the dark side users have always been more "powerful", rey being light sided and OP as fuck gives kylo some cognitive dissonance about "the power of the dark side",

Agreed. I like the shift in dynamic

>>63784966
I couldn't agree more. They did well by not having a traditional epic somewhat OP sith lord.

>>63788223
>>63788155
Ah, but I argue that her flaw is Nietzsche-esq non acceptance of choice. She has no friends, no assertation of individuality. She does nothing to advance herself in her life, nothing extra to improve her station. She has no decorations and moves and talks like a caged rat in the beginning of the film. She's an un person. She does not want to accept the power of choice in the life she's given and so she uses her parents as an excuse to wither away on Jakku without ever making a single step foreword. She would have never left the planet and worked as a scavenger for her food, netting the bare minimum until one day she hurt herself, couldn't work, and died without anyone knowing her name.

She goes through an arc in which she attempts to avoid any kind of choice or life three times. First when she encourages BB8 to leave her alone and go to the nearest setlement. Next when she wants to go back to Jakku, and finally when she doesn't want to accept the lightsaber. In each of those scenarios, she doesn't really make a concrete choice of her own, she says "fine you can follow me, Fine I guess we can't go back to Jakku" but when confronted with the lightsaber (the representation of her finally accepting that her life has to start and that her parents might not come back) she has to eventually make the actual solid choice to take it and fight.

Look I get Kylo is a work in progress. But wow was he cringey. He was probably that guy who listened to In The End 99833737 times. It was almost hard to watch. The chest pounding, the crying, his twink face and figure. Could've been done much better.

>>63788436
That and, don't forget, he's a darth vader fanboy. He's intimidating and impersonates vader poorly (long pauses and staring, angry outbursts at subordinates even though they aren't actually subordinate to him, orders destruction of innocents) with the mask on. But when he takes the mask off, his armor and persona are gone and he's now just some kid that's confused and alone and such.

>>63782267
Sith have always been portrayed as sprout in strength. Maul could take them 1v2 (till Obi-Wan pulled a plot), Sidious never really lost till he was old and injured, Vader may have lost to Luke, but he was an old decrepit husk, who regretted his actions. Vader was still portrayed as the better, scarier, more powerful force up until then.

The woods fight was pretry legit to me. Lack of training in the hero's part aside. Ren fight a lot like Vader. Powerful blows slamming into them.

I actually found him charismatic in his he tallied to his troops.

She wasn't a good, she just pushed him away and let the force flow through her. I can accept that she's just extremely naturally atrong/gifted in the force. It's literally magic, no excuses needed, what's so hard to believe about that?

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>>63780925
I will concur that he is JJ's take on Anakin.

And that in itself is a fucking huge disappointment. I WANTED VADER DEAD! It's over! Make some other menacing villain, make him an alien, make him a girl, do something else other than a fucking pussy-boi corpse with a mask that acts as a respirator.

Where is the new VISION for star wars? I dont see it.

>>63785004
Obi Wan was the only one who could have bested him.

>>63782489
>He then gets slashed by one of these new age storm troopers who have anti-jedi training.

I agree with you, but anti-Jedi training? Where is this mentioned or seen?

>>63788948
Luke trains Rey to be Jesus incarnate and Kylo gets le ancient powers and turns into Bam Margera

>>63788400
I know people disregard the prequels, but fact of the matter is that jedi's shouldn't fuck.

celibacy is a part of the whole spiritual zen shit the jedi are based upon. If luke wanted to bust a nut he could probably just meditade and have peace of mind or some force orgasm.

Leia should have kept her cunny shut as well, seeing how weak her bloodline can be to the dark side.

>>63782675
I guess that's his characters thing. Kylo Ren the staring guy.

>>63780925
>Did anyone else feel like Kylo Ren was a better version of Anakin from the prequels?
Yes
>his character is was what Anakin should have been
No, you fucking retard.

Anakin being a whiny bitch was a terrible, TERRIBLE decision. It was arguably the primary reason why the prequels were shit. Kylo Ren is a slightly better attempt at a whiny bitch character, yes; but that doesn't mean he is the 'anakin we should have had'.
The Anakin we should have had was the noble knight Obi-Wan mentioned in the originals. A close friend who was seduced by the dark side. Not a fucking manchild who leapt towards the dark side because he had the emotional and mental fortitude of a fucking yorkshire pudding.

>Also, I dont understand why so many people are bitching about how "weak" his character was. He was supposed to be weak.
The movie does not commit to this. It still treats him like a fully-fledged Darth Vader even when he is written to be a Darth Vader wannabe who can never live up to that role. If the movie presented him correctly, people would love it. The movie fucked up.

>>63783139
That would have been cool. But then people would complain "how'd she know how to force push???" There's no real solution to make people happy aside from no fight at all.

>>63781231
>absobrtion is easier than basic telekinesis

>>63785898
It's more believable that ren got a bigger potion of the force. Or rather it was up until Rey went ex machina

>>63789001
>turns into Bam Margera
for whatever reason, my sides left the known universe

>>63784784
>Space magic.

He just wasn't as good as people want him to be. She was unnervingly capable, I'll give you that. But it was still acceptable to me. Ren Is just a punk who was wounded and not very talented to begin with.

>>63781860
>wanting "villain leaves hero to die" cliche #583

>>63789180
based on what? we can't know
also see >>63785830 for another possible explanation

>>63784806
This is bs and you know it. Protagonists do this literally all of the time. Obi-Wan did it, Luke did it, fucking every hero in a dramatic fight scene ever.

Don't pretend it's about muh feminism. Sure she was a lady, but this is a trope that has existed for twenty fucking mellenia.

>>63782118
Harrison ford is 73 years old. People arnt mad because we all know its time for him to be put to bed.

Only harrison ford should be han in main movies, hes too famous.

Im very skeptical about that han solo movie comingg.

>>63784926
Oh nice

>>63785188
plz no, the last thing we need is another "chosen one" who is the true chosen one who will bring the one true balance to the force

Ren is actually the equivalent of someone who's in /a/ and things EVIL AND MUH DARKNESS is cool.

And then he discovers his grandpa was the BIGGEST baddest dark lord ever.

He's a dork, that was just given Force powers. Which is why he works as a character rather than LOL DARTH VADER Clone, he's a toddler with force powers.

>>63785494
Yup, I think that's intentional. Everyone levels up for movie #2

>>63789389
The trope you are looking for is called " Mary Sue.

Now she literally embodies the trope.

>>63789397
I just wanted to see Han and Luke together in a scene one last time. Han calling him kid, and all that old good shit.

Fuck Luke for moving to planet Scotland

>>63785494
Then the movie is an utter failure for making the bad guys seem non-threatening and ineffectual.

Did JJ Abrams listen to Mechanical Animal before he developed Kylo Ren?

Kylo Ren was like me when I was 13

>>63786979
>Like, it's not a social justice thing, it's just a western culture thing.
Yup.

>>63787959
4chan is cancer anon. There is no victory here. I agree with your original statement. Now run sweet prince.

Lets get to the point.

Did you enjoy the movie?

>>63788758
But now she's made the first leap and accepted shes not going back to Jakku, she's found herself a solid group of people that she finds worth leaving for, plus now she's witnessed first hands she has the force she's not going to carry on being indecisive, since it was just her and Chewie who left to see Luke without her being forced to, that was her own choice

>>63789112
At this point she's already read Kylo Rens mind, forced him out of hers, and used a Jedi mind trick on a stormtrooper
If they'd gradually built up the size and power of the shit she was throwing I wouldn't have had any qualms at that point

>>63789347
The only way they could have an infamous lightsaber fight in the first film without killing off one of the trilogies main characters would be to let one of them win and leave the other to die

>>63788820
The chest pounding was to beat back the intense pain that was caused by Chewbaccas Bow blaster. Which they emphasized how fucking powerful it was everytime Han borrowed it and used it to one shot rekt shit. I'd give that a pass.

>>63788134
>he has a ton of indicators that he may suffer from multiple personalities
THAT would be cool. Make him nice and fucked up.

I want a big and loud uncontrolled, emotionally unstable sith for once.

>>63789785
this was just the encouragement I needed to never accept 4chans opinions again. Thank you anon, I am free.

>>63789823
Sure, that's her first movie arc. But now she's going to have more to face up to. Like the fact that the dark and light side of the force are not particularly different and that the rage and passion she channeled during her fight with Ren was useful and that the darkside is tempting.
The conflict is going to be this:
Ren want's to stay dark side, but realizes he's not evil enough, and that he can't just dismiss his desire to be a good person.
Rey is filled with passion, feelings and anger and uses it frequently. She wants to be light side, to stay a good person, but sees that the darkside grants her the power to be more than the baser survivalist that she was at the beginning of the force awakens. The conflict comes down to two people that want to be one thing but find temptations in the other and it remains to be seen weather they will give in to this temptation.
Rey is being set up as a "triumph of the will" type. She's seen the power she can wield. She has taken control of her life, now that such great power as grown out of its prison, can it be used safely or will she thirst for control and turn to the dark side?

>>63784953
>they both project weakness

No fucking shit? That's both of their characters' traits. Kylo is inferior to Vader and he knows it and Finn was in fucking sanitation

>>63790223
Yeah I'm only talking hypothetical since it's the first film, they could throw an absolute curveball and make her an edgy dark adult 15 years older like they did with Anakin from I - II
But so far she's shown more traits of being a Jedi, even though both were deserted as a child she was the one who was more patient and understanding about it, counting every single day until they returned
also she's been quite selfless with her power first - at the very beginning she had a chance to swap BB8 for 40 portions of food but she sacrificed it to help him instead
Whereas Ren has already shown he's been seduced by the dark sides power, like when he's talking to Vader asking him to show him the true power of the dark side again, implying he's already seen it before and it's that which has turned him
I can see Ren changing to the Jedi because we've already seen his inner battle on what side he wants to be on, but Rey seems deadset on doing what's right rather than what benefits her the most

So what's worse killing your own father or killing a ton of younglings like Anakin?

>>63780925
So Kylo is from /r9k/?

>>63790564
Oh, I totally agree, but what I personally see is that both characters have an "intended path" and then a "temptation path".

Kylo Ren is intended to be dark side. He wants to be dark side, he tries very hard to unleash his full power, to assert his will. But we see his inner struggle against the light and how he tries to smother it with the way his helmet functions as a way for him to play a character with no qualms or weakness's.

Rey on the other hand is deadset on being good, being a jedi, being a member of the light. And yet there is a temptation to be evil, to trade BB8 for food, to slay Kylo Ren where he lay on the ground. She has the temptations to go to the dark side without knowing about the dichotomy of the light and dark.

Like, overwhelmingly, Rey is a Light side force user, but on the other hand she shows some slight hints at a potential inner conflict. Which would make sense seeing as
ReN
ReY

They're like mirrors of the others character.

>>63780925
Kylo was pretty good. All of the characters were pretty good. But the story was not good because JJ and Disney = hackery

>>63780925
I actually thought Anakin's arc was better than Kylo, who has absolutely no motives for being evil or wearing a stupid mask except that the other movies had those things. The problem with Anakin and the prequels in general was bad acting and character development. TFA had some character development, but it was done in a clumsy lazy way through immersion-breaking expository dialogue.

>"Let's sit down and have a casual chat about that time our son turned into an evil jedi, Han."

haven't seen the movie. don't care for it. but im curious. does the black dude fuck anyone?

>>63780925
I think both Ren and Rey were better versions of Anakin.

Rey, in part because of all her Mary-sue ness, feels like what Anakin could have been when he was younger.

Ren feels like what Anakin could have been once he turned.

I could see Vader being the eventual end of that characters arc, after growing and maturing and completing his dark side training.

>>63790858
I agree with you on Ren, the only problem with Rey was that it's only subtle hints that she could be tempted by the dark side that are made and I probably missed most of them after completely writing her off as Sith
I think best case scenario is that it does happen and she turns in to some Jean Grey shit from X-Men, the all powerful unstable pillar of the dark side, I just struggle to see her motive since she hasn't shown much of a struggle with her morales, nowhere near as much as Ren, and I don't think she'd snap after finding out it was Luke who abandoned her because, if she was already willing to count every single day on Jakku and was terrified of missing them return surely the fact her dad/uncle was a Jedi Leader in exile is a good enough reason to not turn on him, it's not as if he'd just popped out for groceries and she was sat waiting for him
I guess only time will tell, anythings better than the route she's leading to now

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Basically they subverted Vader with his character, same kind of iconography, mask, voice etc. But Vader obviously was powerful, dominant leader, Ren is lost and without a direction and not as powerful, not even close, which just fuels his self-hate and self-pity.

It definitely is a subversion but I think lot of people argue that it won't serve the story because the old "rule" is that the villain should always be really intimidating and seem like he is better than the protagonist. Which was very much the case with the OT. Maybe they'll subvert this too, since Rey already rekt Ren despite having no formal jedi training, maybe the subverted element of Episode 8 is that she actually gets killed by Kylo Ren. Not just defeated like Luke in Empire but just flat out dead, Kylo kills him. Could be a cool twist, maybe not, idk. Also one thing some people forget about the Kylo vs Rey fight is that Kylo was shot by Chewbacca before the fight had even started so he was fighting in a wounded state.

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>Did anyone else feel like Kylo Ren was a better version of Anakin from the prequels?
I felt like he was worse than Anakin
>What if Vader was still a whiny cunt - The character

>>63780925
I thought it was refreshing to have an aloof powerful villain not pointlessly kill his subordinates.

>>63790950

yeah, your mom

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What happened to C3PO's arm? How did he lose it?

>>63792180
He is not C3P0, he is in fact Venom "Punished" P0, a body double.

>>63792180
Nine years ago on that helicopter.

>>63792232
>>63792245
I'm glad others saw the same connection as I did.

>>63780925

I don't get how people bitch and moan that Anakin was a whiny teen that wanted power yet Kylo Ren is so deep and complex because he's a whiny teen that wants power.

Anakin wanted power because he never wanted to lose anyone after his mom died. His love for Padme is what drove him to the dark side. Kylo better have a good fucking reason but from what they hinted at it doesn't sound like it.

And fuck the arbitrary use of the mask and the voice.

>>63792325
His daddy didn't pay any attention to him and he thought Vader had a cool mask

>>63780925
My only problem with Kylo besides him looking just like that weird douchebag from Grandma's Boy is we simply don't know enough about him. I'm hopeful he will be explored but as it stands now the drama that was presented to us from his persona wasn't fully grounded

It's quite obvious that his development in this movie is a reverse parallel to Luke's in V. Gets his ass handed to him, will develop into a stronger person next movie. His journey was completed with the killing of Han but might get redemption in death, only time can tell with the next two movies.

I think what bothered me the most was how underwhelming the Resistance was.

>>63780925

Kylo's struggle was definitley more believable, at least as it pertains to him killing Han. We don't really have all the details for why he left the Jedi training w/ luke other than Han saying "He's got too much Vader in him".

If we are comparing Kylo to Anakin in his Jedi days, I'd argue that they are remarkably similar. Anakin Skywalker was a completley immature, naive, and emotional Jedi. He constantly disobeyed the Jedi masters and broke protocol. he spoke out of turn and challenged the other Jedis out of immature thinking and misguided actions.

Anakin was very much a problem child throughout all of the series. Even when he was just a little kid in episode 1 "Stay in the ship anakin" "Tee hee, he said stay in the ship, so I'll fly it around".

Kylo was supposed to be "weak" in that he wasn't fully trained. However, he was partially trained in Jedi ways and partially trained in dark side ways (presumably sith since snoke is all but confirmed to be plagueius).

A partially trained force user who has practice and some expertise with a lighstaber, who has been using the force for years would wreck a force noob who never even knew the force existed or what a lightsaber was 2 hours before their fight. Kylo was wounded doesn't mean much when it comes to force abilities.

>>63784966
Did Han Solo shout "Ben!" to him or "Ken!"

>>63792611
Ben

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regarding the final duel: Ren obviously sucks at tapping into the dark side, when he loses his focus, he gets rekt; he expected that killing his father would change that, but obviously it only made him more confused....
Rey, on the other hand, seems to be getting stronger the angrier she gets.

Which I think is not only the explanation why that duel went down as it did, as well as a possible direction for Episode IIXs unavoidable "I am your father" moment.

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a 90lb girl couldnt beat Anakin

Anyone have a torrent link to this shitshow? CAMRip?

I'm 90% sure that Kylo and Rey will switch roles at some point. With Kylo slowly turning over to the light side, and Rey slowly turning over to the dark.

While TFA made it clearly visable that Kylo was very troubled and struggling between the pull of the light and the dark, Rey's demonstrations of the force were very subtle, since it all stemmed from dark emotions, temptations, manipulation and so on.

>>63792889

THE FORCE LMAO

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>>63784966
>murdered dad
>dad was Han Fucking Solo
>more of an angsty whiner than his grandpa
>favorite character

>>63792889
>90lb
She looks 100-110 lbs.

>>63792794
Pretty much this.

The next movie's "I am your father moment" will be Rey siding over into the dark side, while Kylo joins the light.

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>>63792180
He was being Nuclear and wild

>>63792889
after she finishes him, her lightsaber is in the snow
next frame its by her waist

nice job jj

I just came back from the movie.

The first half was pretty good

The last 20 - 30 minutes threw everything out the fucking window.

Ray touches a lightsaber and gains visions. Fine whatever

She then gets captured and somehow can use the force better than someone whose been training since he was a child under Luke and then a dark lord.

Doesn't stop there. Apparently anyone who gets a lightsaber can just pick it up and press a button to use it. Why even lock this shit in a chest for years? Why is it special?

Then the final lightsaber duels. We have again the dude whose been training for years losing to some guy who just got handed a lightsaber and then to a girl who also just got handed a lightsaber.

Who thought this was a good idea? They need to be shot.

>>63784335
absolute pottery

>>63793183
Kylo didn't want to kill Rei. After all, Snoke wants her alive.
Killing Han only made him more confused, as well as weaker.

>>63784347
>unlike Anakin in the prequels we don't see how or why he turned evil.
The most important line was when Rey read HIS mind, and her first impression was "you are scared that you are not as strong as Vader".
Ben wanted to be Vader. He wanted to be mighty. The First Order promised him might and power, that's the primary benefit of Fascism.

>>63793183
>Then the final lightsaber duels. We have again the dude whose been training for years losing to some guy who just got handed a lightsaber and then to a girl who also just got handed a lightsaber.
Finn lost after getting a few good hits in. It was a tag team fight with Rey finishing Ben off because he was already heavily injured.

>>63793374
Finn shouldn't have been able to get any hits in. Right before their little shit duel we saw Ren use the force to launch Rey back like 20 feet.

Not to mention Rey never using a saber before and then for a good minute she closed her eyes leaving her wide open and after she opens them she somehow gains better skills to overtake Ren in a duel.

>>63793374

Finn literally should not have been able to get a single hit in. He's a stormtrooper. Imagine one of the dipshits on tattootine searching for the droids in ep 4 finding a lightsaber then going toe to toe with a jedi apprentice for a full minute while landing blows. it makes no sense.

Basic force training includes using the force to know exactly where/when/how your opponent will attack. It's the chief reason why jedi vs sith duels take so fucking long.

>>63793320
yup, Ren didn't lose the physical battle as much as the psychological one

The people with their starwars fanboy goggles glued to their face in this thread.

>>63793518

did you know that you're posting in a star wars thread on the internet? If you're reading and posting, you're just as guilty

>>63789788
Loved it

>>63780925

I got that vibe too. Mostly because they were going for "hes really angry and emotionally unhinged" but Adam is a way better actor than Hayden so it comes off scary and a bit sympathetic rather than just goofy.

>>63793451
>Finn shouldn't have been able to get any hits in.
Ben should not have been hit by Chewie, but he did. And once he did there is not much he could do to heal himself before the fight. The guy was basically standing only because of pure rage.