Whos fall from grace was bigger?
>>63686858
Lucas. Stupid normies still rave about The Hobbit, but prequels were panned universally.
Peter Jackson's. Lucas is still a household name, has left an indelible mark on the movie industry, and for all the shit the prequels get they aren't THAT bad(well Clones actually is but it's only one movie).
The latter part of Peter Jackson's career makes the LoTR trilogy look like three consecutive flukes.
>>63686929
>>63686858
Jackson.
He actually made the perfect trilogy that followed up with literal shit.
Lucas was a hack even in the original SW that gor carried by hes crew
I still think Jackson fucked up the worst. My little brother still looks fondly on growing up with the prequels even if we dislike them. The Hobbit will never mean anything to anyone.
>>63687017
I don't think LotR was perfect by any means
Really Fellowship was near perfect while Two Towers and Return of the King began to fall apart. Those shitty fake endings were symbolic of how everything was rushed through and poorly planned out. There were pieces that were amazing in both films, charge of the Rohirrim, mt doom, etc, but as a whole it simply didn't work.
You even got really weird shit like Aragorn fighting a troll 1v1 when it was originally supposed to be Sauron in qt mode.
That being said it was sitll a million times better than the hobbit.
>>63687436
Its still overall better trilogy than the original star wars while the hobbit is shitter than the prequels
Jackson fucked up harder than Lucas
Lucas' downfall was 100% his own fault. Jackson's was caused by a troubled production that he had little control over.
Lucas had about 20 years before he shit the bed.
Jackson did it with half that time.
>>63687577
Its like poetry, considering hes raise wasnt dependend on him
>>63687500
>Its still overall better trilogy
I agree with that because while 4&5 in Star Wars were near perfect, 6 was shit so mediocre that it almost broke down the continuity of the series from character arcs to tone to terrible plot points like another Death Star or teddy bears. I still wish Gary Kurtz had stood up to Lucas and tried to push through his vision since he was so integral in the success of 4&5 (I'm also convinced that his absence is what ensures TFA will be mediocre shit)
Jackson on the other hand made 3 movies that went well enough together with the only real problem being tone and some editing problems that were mostly caused by time and budget constraints since the movies were all made at once.
>>63687577
>We just didn't have time guys I am serious
>Still had enough time to for Tauriel and Alfrid Lickspittle
Its bullshit.
>>63686858
Peter Jackson was never that great. His decline in quality was minimal.
Lucas went from making classics to Jar Jar Binks and Red Tails...
>Peter Jackson
>fall from grace
what in the literal fuck? All of his movies were good, you bunch of hipsters itt need to go shave your neckbeards and lose weight
honest question: how much say do directors have on really big projects like lotr/sw or any other?
are they pretty unrestricted or is everything challenged by production etc?
>>63687754
>Losing weight will make the hobbit better
Maybe if we can arrange a holodmar style famine it'd be up there with the LoTR trilogy
>>63687754
>shave your neckbeards and lose weight
But Peter tried that and then he directed the shittiest trilogy to ever exist.
Only one of these men has an Oscar for Best Direction.
>>63687818
control your memes faggot god damn
>>63687436
Fellowship is the comfiest movie of all time
Let's also not forget that zany King Kong movie
>>63687699
>lucas was great
Based shit tastebro
>>63687781
Lucas had full control
No one knows how much control Jackson had over the Hobbit, but I think it was enough to blame him on most of the bad shit (elf romance, replacing miniatures with cgi, alfred Lickspittle, turning 2 chapters of a book into a 3 hour movie, etc)
>>63687865
1st hobbit started so fuckin comfy too...
Shame about the rest tho
>>63687859
>Jackson has sunk to shitposting on /tv/
Still more dignified than directing Legolas machine-arrowing down hordes of cgi orcs I guess
>>63687436
>when it was originally supposed to be Sauron in qt mode.
wait, what
>>63687906
Im willing to bet that the last point was because WB, not Jackson
>>63687877
I agree Lucas was never great
most of his autism had to be saved by Gary Kurtz, Lucas's wife Marcia (who edited American Graffiti and Star Wars to make it less autistic), Walter Murch, Lawrence Kasdan and various other Hollywood writers he knew who helped him write the story after his first rough drafts, but never really credited.
>>63687996
Yep, he was going to fight Sauron but Jackson thought it went against entire movies by showing him as an eye so sauron was replaced with a troll
>>63687906
To be fair I would say the studio probably pushed pretty hard to include the romance stuff as well as Turial(?). Especially since they got some shit about no females in LotR even after they upped Arwin's and Eowyn roles in the movies.
Jackson. Hobbit movies are total bastardizations with no redeeming qualities. Jackson screwed the pooch even harder but Lucas will always get more shit.
>>63686858
Easily Lucas. I don't think many people expected the hobbits to be good, especially after they found out it was being stretched into 3 fucking movies.
>>63687996
Sauron was originally very attractive in Lotr lore, which is how he got the title "Sauron the deceiver"as people assumed he was a cool guy because he was so hot so he would give them bad advice and trick them into killing themselves.
For some reason the original script had Aragorn fighting hot Sauron despite the fact that in the books Sauron had lost the power to make himself good looking thousands of years prior.
>>63687691
The Tauriel romance bullshit was added in reshoots when they told him they needed more shit to stretch it out to three movies instead of two.
What's next for Jackson?
Both prequels were destroyed with CGI. But the Hobbit's is less forgiveable given it came out years later than the SW prequels.
The other problem with the Hobbit is how it rapes the source material. Star Wars was made up by Lucas as he went along, so there's nothing to compare it to but the original trilogy.
>>63688180
>hot sauron
>>63688219
Sillmarion
>>63688455
>The gripping story of the elven maiden Fíaren who fell in love with a Hobbit
>Their love transcends cultural differences and shatters middle earth
>also starring Melkor and Ungoliant
>>63688455
Honestly there are enough stories in the Sillmarilion for a cinematic uiverse, if they're so desperate for it, there was no need to butcher The Hobbit adaptation
>>63688455
>>63688657
Thankfully we'll all be long dead before the Tolkien family sells the right to that book.
>>63688703
Nah. TOlkien's son Chris is an old man himself. The younger Tolkien descendants probably won't have Chris's devotion to Tolkien's material and will be all about that $$
>>63688219
Doctor Who
>>63688657
>Not mentioning Ancalagon
Actually you know what? Id be happy if Eärendil's fight against Ancalagon never sees the light of day.
A fucking mountain sized dragon loses against a gay elf and a few eagles.
Ridiculous.
>>63688219
Children of Hurin
>>63688862
A gay elf in a fucking space ship
>>63688862
to be fair Eagles are literally invincible in Tolkien's world.
>>63689326
That's because the Eagles represent AMERICA!!!
USA!!! USA!!!
>>63686858
you have to attain grace in order to fall from it.
LEGOLASYOU'REMOTHERLOVEDYOUMORETHANLIFEITSELF
>>63689665
Love that actor desu
>>63689182
I would pay to see this even though I know it would be irredeemably Jacksoned
>>63689719
I still believe in Jackson 2bh, id just want himnto have more freedom from the studio and id watch the shit out of Hurin in that case
>>63688180
>For some reason the original script had Aragorn fighting hot Sauron despite the fact that in the books Sauron had lost the power to make himself good looking thousands of years prior.
He only appeared beautiful for mere moments before the armoured Sauron appeared and fights with Aragorn, there is footage of this.
They realised how stupid it was and CGI'd over it with the troll.
>>63689887
here's the full video, unfortunately I can't find a version of it with the original audio, if it even exists, though the dialog does
>>63689887
>>63689980
and im retarded
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MvcaQg_auk
>>63686858
Jackson actually directed an entire trilogy sucessfully before he did The Hobbit.
Lucas just did A New Hope and THX1138.
George defends the prequels and still says Jar Jar is a favorite characters
Jackson is upset that he wasn't able to do a better job and did the best he could with the time he was given and the pressure from the studio to make 1 book into 3 movies.
>>63690021
Jackson is a dude who genuinly fuckin loved the world hws working on.you can see that there is more heart in the first 20 minutes of the Fellowship than all the 6 SW movies together
Shame about The Hobbit tho
>>63689211
>A gay elf in a fucking space ship
>implying he didn't fight for the users
https://youtu.be/DkTb7Pe2MtY?t=2m14s
>>63691153
Basically this
Jackson is what wouldve happen to "nerd movies" if pic related actually had any talent-huge fanboy who cares(or at least cared) about the world that hes working on.
Lucas doesnt have repect even for hes own creation(however shitty it is compared to Tolkiens universe for example)
>>63686858
Jackson
At least thw prequels had SOME redeeming qaulities,all the hobbit had was lee pace.
>>63686858
Artistically, Lucas. By the end of episode 6 Lucas was pretty much owned by the toy business, which was making him millions. He edited the end of the last episode to make it more kid-friendly and to sell more toys. The prequels pretty much shamelessly pandered to children whithout even tryin gto make good movies (and it worked, at least in my case; I fucking loved the prequels as a kid.)
That's why Abrams wants Lucas the fuck away from the new film, he knows he'll ruin it.
Jackson's fall wasn't as bad. The studio pressured him to make more films then he should've, so he did his best with what he had. He's even come out an admitted he had no idea what he was doing while he was making them. And hey, the first Hobbit was actually pretty good.
It's too early to say if his career will take a toll for it, but I doubt it.
>>63691390
The Hobbit movies had a good score, costumes, makeup and set design. Give them that at least.
>>63691416
Also, people still love Jackson, while Lucas has become a fucking laughingstock.
>>63691449
Okay bb
Jackson has proven he can make watchable movies outside of LOTR.
Lucas hasn't directed anything of worth in decades.
More hobbits
>>63691507
Has he? The only major movies he's made outside of LOTR are King Kong and The Lovely Bones, neither of which where very good at all.
>>63691465
>Also, people still love Jackson,
No. I considered him one of my favorite directors until the two towers. If I saw him today I'd honestly try my best to fucking kill him.
There's massive amount of love and heart in LotR specifically because of Jackson. He actually feels regret he couldn't have made The Hobbit as good due to time restraints and running out on the license(Tolkiens son is a whiny asshole fuck who didn't like the movies)
Lucas cashed in on Stars Wars literally for toys(see: ewoks, Jar-Jar), did not give one fuck that the prequels were bad, had to have other people restrain him for the originals to not be a muddled mess due to his autism, then sold it off to disney for Abrams to rub his grimy SJW hands all over it.
Jackson is clearly the better man.
>>63691507
>Lucas hasn't directed anything of worth.
Fixed that for you.
The dude is, and always will be a hack.
>>63691611
>hasn't seen dead alive
Time to leave, pleb.
>>63691611
what's it like being 11?
>>63691654
Seriously? I loved the shit out of The Two Towers. The opening to the helms deep battle still gives me chills every time. Ah well, to each their own I guess
>>63691654
>my opinion is the only one
MOST people still love Jackson.
What didn't you like about Two Towers?
>>63691686
I'm black and what is this?
>>63691686
>>63691680
Post LOTR, he hasn't made any other good movies.
>>63687906
True. Kagemusha, a film by Kurasowa mind you, was only made because Lucas called in a favor from Fox. He had a lot of clout during the 80s and 90s
>>63691699
>MOST people still love Jackson.
Doubt it. Most normies probably couldn't even tell you who Peter Jackson was and anyone who cares enough about movies to know probably saw The Hobbit trilogy and thought it was shit.
>>63691747
King Kong was good. Merely good.
It had problems but overall it was good.
>>63687865
Someone post of the photo of the nervous breakdown on "set"
>>63691766
Hobbit would have been better than the snorefest that was LoTR if they had only gone with practical effects instead of the shitty CGI characters.
Jackson
I didn't even bother finishing the last Hobbit movie while I've seen all the prequels multiple times. Also, Lucas invented Star Wars. Jackson didn't invent LoTR.
>>63686858
Lucas is the fluke for the simple reason that NOBODY understands him, his logic, or his vision, including himself.
Peter Jackson worked on LOTR for years before the first film was released. In the most recent Extended Edition he straight out admits that the reason the Hobbit trilogy is no where near as good as LOTR is because he had no time to prepare. It was Del Taco's project, and he bailed. Once I heard about how Jackson was shooting entire sequences of the Hobbit without scripts, story boards, or any clear directions for the cast, he earned a bit of respect back.'
He went from having a clear vision of how he wanted LOTR to be, along with years of writing, set and costume design, etc, to being told by the Kiwis of NZ that they desperately needed their country to stay globally relevant as a tourist destination. Say what you will about The Lovely Bones and the Hobbit movies, but when Jackson has time to prepare, and a dedicated team behind him, he can make magic. When he is wrong he admits it.
Lucas has no idea what any of that means.
>>63691766
Most people who KNOW Jackson still love him. At LEAST compared to Lucas, who everyone always laughs at.
Jackson had PERFECT source material already written out for him and he still fucked it up completely.
>>63691807
Do you watch the prequels now, or were the multiple viewings when you were younger?
>>63691804
More practical effects would have been a big improvement but as long as they were still stretching it out to 3 movies it would still suck.
>>63691838
>Jackson had PERFECT source material
With one of the major complaints about Hobbit being too childish, and the fact that Tolkien wrote a kid's book, that's not necessarily true.
>>63688232
The CGI is really the worst offender here. I can excuse the shit-ass writing, but there's no excuse to cut corners like that
>inb4 you only notice bad CGI
>>63689380
>>63691817
True. I respect that he is able to criticise his own movies. The commentary tracks are proof of that. He has a good laugh about some the shittier aspects.
>>63691839
I hate this arguement because even some oldfags hated aspects of the OT
>>63686858
Jackson
To go from crafting a nigh perfect adaptation of a classic piece of literature to directing The Smurfs: Middle Earth is really just unforgivable. At least Lucas knew where he was with directing and what his artistic visions were even if they were absolute trash. Jackson took a complete 180 into JUST territory out of fucking nowhere.
>>63688180
I wish we got a fantasy villain like this in a movie. Hoping the next Sith Lord doesn't wear a mask and isn't a depressed teenager.
>>63691416
>The prequels pretty much shamelessly pandered to children whithout even tryin gto make good movies (and it worked, at least in my case; I fucking loved the prequels as a kid.
>>63691839
I've seen them all recently again. The worst part is the CGI, but the CGI in the LoTR is really showing it's age too.
>>63689380
That's Reddit anon. Fucking, at least pretend you're not retarded.
>>63687436
>Sauron in qt mode.
>>63691881
>Hobbit being too childish
It's really not. Have you ever read the book? The most childish parts are definitely near the beginning, but it's not like adding in the go pro barrel tricks made the movies any less childish.
>>63691817
PYTAH JICKSON
>PYTAH JICKSON
PYTAH JICKSON
>PYTAH JICKSON
PYTAH JICKSON
>PYTAH JICKSON
>>63692032
Can't disagree with you at all there. But it's still something people complain about.
>>63692032
>It's really not. Have you ever read the book?
It really is. It's explicitly written as a light adventure novel for young kids.
>>63692060
You're trying to make the book sound like Merry Poppins which is far from the case.
>>63692109
>merry poppins
>>63691699
I wasn't a LOTR fan but I saw the Two Towers with friends. I only remember Helm's Deep(?) and how horrible the conclusion of the battle was. The rest of the story felt like it droned-on too long without enough interesting characters or scenes. I wonder if it suffered by sticking too closely to the source material instead of daring to do more. Definitely felt like I was watching a novel that took itself a little too seriously for pg-13 fantasy.
I always figured the reason The Hobbit movies were so bad was because many of Jackson's wishes were overruled. Meanwhile we know what happened when Lucas had almost complete creative control of his own movies.
>>63687500
New Hope= 9/10
Empire= 9/10
Jedi = 7/10
All the LoTR= 8/10
its more consistent but its not as well made or a superior film from a purely cinematic view point
Lucas betrayed countless millions of people with his shoddy, cash-in excuses for movies.
Jackson let down some nerds.
Lucas wins by a country mile.
>>63692060
>It's explicitly written as a light adventure novel for young kids.
Proptip: Lord of the Rings is not the Hobbit.
Lord of the Rings was not intended for kids.
>>63693537
>All the LoTR= 8/10
Nice try.
More like Fellowship is a 9, TT is a 7 and ROTK is a 6,
>>63693598
All Lucas did was let down some nerds. Normies like the prequels.
>>63693836
Says the Muslim shill
>>63686858
Lucas...
Though I actually blame the fans to a large degree.
>>63693791
Shit opinion
>>63693836
I haven't met anyone who likes the prequels
>>63693574
look on my works ye mighty and despair
>>63686858
Lucas, easily. He got so rattled by all the criticism he stopped making movies forever (Red Tails reshoots notwithstanding).
>>63686858
Lucas. The prequels were horrible shit, nothing can be worse. I still remember my disappointment with the Phantom Menace
>>63686929
> but prequels were panned universally
No they weren't. The cinemascore for all of them was A, meaning the general public liked them. They are still sold side by side with the OT on bluray and dvd and digital download.
Roger Ebert gave Phantom Menace and Revenge of the Sith over 3/4.
>It's not Jackson's fault, the production was rushed!
I don't care if he had to script all 3 movies in an afternoon, nothing makes this forgivable:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fcJm1Slk2E
>>63686858
Hackson revealed himself to be a money-hungry kike, but Lucas revealed himself to be a money-hungry kike AND an imbecile.
Jackson's downfall pretty much started after this piece of cinema
