Who is a bigger hack, George Lucas or George RR Martin?
OP
>>62695479
Why would you consider George RR Martin a hack?
He is not the one directing the series
>>62695479
Lucas. He got lucky with one idea and had a lot of help by the right people to make it a reality.
>>62695491
Because he thinks he's Tolkien
>>62695522
No he thinks he's much better than Tolkien
Despite Tolkien having been in World War I Martin feels fit to call his depiction of war in LOTR dishonest and 'Disneyfied' because not enough sexual violence
>>62695522
>writing in a genre means you're trying to be another author in that genre
Yup. Clive Barker thinks he's Lovecraft.
Ludlum thinks he's Fleming.
>>62695567
GRRMs parents didn't give him two middle names, he chose the second one himself.
>>62695534
thats not true
>>62695595
No, it was his confirmation name given at his baptism at 13 years old.
>>62695647
Which he chose himself because, even as a young boy, he was a hack.
>>62695479
GRRM
He tries to make GoT pass as good and patrician while it's complete shit.
Gearge ay least doesn't try to make SW some pretentious shit
Lucas:
>1 Great movie (American Graffiti)
>1 Good movie (Star Wars)
>1 Mediocre movie (THX 1138)
>3 Shit movies
Martin:
>3 decent books
>2 shit books
>2 good TV seasons and 3 bad ones that he had little involvement with
>a bunch of other shit no one cares about
They're both hacks, but Lucas has at least made one great film so that suggests he was talented at one point, although to be fair Martin never did anything as bad as the prequels either.
>>62695479
george is the bigger hack desu
>>62695601
http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/03/george-rr-martin-thrones-violence-women?hootPostID=fd755821de73a6dbf75a0649e2b7bb1b
>“And then there’s the whole issue of sexual violence, which I’ve been criticized for as well. I’m writing about war, which what almost all epic fantasy is about. But if you’re going to write about war, and you just want to include all the cool battles and heroes killing a lot of orcs and things like that and you don’t portray [sexual violence], then there’s something fundamentally dishonest about that. Rape, unfortunately, is still a part of war today. It’s not a strong testament to the human race, but I don’t think we should pretend it doesn’t exist.
>>62695910
he's not wrong
>>62695479
>2 coffees
ABSOLUTE MADMAN
GRRM just looks and sounds like that guy at work that nobody talks to on break because all he gives a shit about is Star Wars and D&D.
>>62695479
Judging from the pic, Martin is slightly bigger.
>>62695910
He's right here.
What he's not right about however is how unsafe travelling in Westeros looks.
Even in 1300 AD Marco Polo managed to reach China with very few accidents because people understood he was a merchant and he needed to make money.
In the GoT world he would have been tricked by his uncle, then raped by some muslims then raped and decapitated by the mongolians because lol middle ages.
Lucas funded Ran and partly Kagemusha.
That alone gives him more merit than that one-trick pony faggot.
Hell it gives him more credit than Jew Jew Abrahams too.
>>62695910
there's nothing wrong with what he's saying there
Definitely George.
Only Normies love his successful stuff and only fat smelly nerds like his other stuff.
He is fat, has no idea how to dress, wears ugly glasses and has an ugly beard.
He also seems to have a problem with women.
Overall he is a huge autist.
>>62698010
>>62697969
>>62697010
>Fat fuck literally who pop sci-fi / fantasy author thinks he's qualified to criticize the depiction of war written by a man who survive the war to end all wars and lost all his close friends not even half way through
GRRM hands down.
A shitty writer Lucas may be, but he finishes what he started, and his other projects outside of storytelling have impacted entertainment forever. ILM changed everything, and the guy had a knack for awesome special effects since he started. Compare the 1st Star Wars movie to the special effects in Logan's Run and remember those movies were just one year apart. If it wasn't for Lucas /co/ wouldn't have Pixar to fawn over. He's a boring technocrat, but very successful billionaire with a loving family.
GRRM on the other hand only has some shitty little movie theater that at best is a tax write off, and will much rather censor the comments section of his blog than finish his 20 years old series.
>>62695678
> he isnt even catholic
youre not welcome on tv
>>62698242
>he finishes what he started
This t b h
>>62698092
is the joke that you described them both perfectly ?
>>62698334
wew lad
>>62698092
kek
>>62698242
GRRM has someone else manage the comments section of his blog.
>>62697969
>Even in 1300 AD Marco Polo managed to reach China with very few accidents because people understood he was a merchant and he needed to make money.
The guy with shit they could steal didn't get attacked because they knew he had shit they could steal?
>>62698157
>Fat fuck literally who
exactly like the people you're quoting.
>>62697969
>In the GoT world he would have been tricked by his uncle, then raped by some muslims then raped and decapitated by the mongolians because lol middle ages.
Agreed, i always thought the violence in GOT is over the top and unrealistic. I mean yeah the middle ages were barbaric, but people were still people, they pretty much had the same morals as we do now.
>>62698864
There are no people in ASOIAF. They're all subhuman barbarians, every single one of them. There is no good and there is no reason that isn't only there to be murdered in a cheap twist. It's pretty awful to read. One of the most cynical and pessimistic series by an increasingly self-defensive and angry old man who blames his fans for being disappointed in him. Say what you will about Lucas but we've at least seen him admit he may have gone too far in some places, and displays some amount of consideration for what he thinks people want. GRRM is a huge disgusting fat ball of blame and elitism, who asserts his idea of 'clever subversive writing' not because he thinks it's natural to enjoy, but because he believes he knows what's better for his fans than they do.
And his only important project will NEVER EVER be complete. ASOIAF will be forever unfinished and he blames the world for noticing. He can't cope with the basic reality that he has to actually work in the project he claims to love so much. A trilogy would have been fine but the fat man doesn't know when is enough, and now the project will never be whole.
>>62695479
George Lucas loved his fans and allowed the EU to be canon. George RR Martin told his fans to go fuck themselves when they asked him to finish his fucking series.
Lucas at least finished what he started, maybe not to everyone's liking but you can't please everybody.
George is just cruising on the money that HBO earned for him. He'll never finish the book and he just gave D&D the cliffnotes (which he wrote in his hotel room the night before) of where to take the series now that it's caught up.
>>62699337
>and now the project will never be whole.
and nothing of value was lost.
>>62699337
>They're all subhuman barbarians, every single one of them. There is no good and there is no reason that isn't only there to be murdered...
When I first started reading asoiaf years ago, I was shocked by this and my first mistaken impression was that the author himself is without empathy and that similar deficiency has been reflected in his characters, perhaps unintentionally. Even their inner monologues often seems alien in how cold they are. I think this more than anything, made the novels less: the characters, even tyrion, are often impossible to identify with. But it's just a terrible writer.
>>62699437
>George Lucas loved his fans and allowed the EU to be canon.
Or he just didn't give a fuck because the EU keeps the marketing machine in motion while he sits on his ass. Furthermore didn't the "canon" have a bunch of convoluted levels to it (like G, C, CC, etc.)?
>>62698157
Tolkien certainly chose to ignore some aspects of war simply because they would have been tasteless, though. And that is ok. I am not sure why you or Gurm think a bit of dishonesty is intrinsically bad.
>>62698092
Shit. They are the same person.
>>62697969
Marco Polo successfully reached China because merchants were never alone on long routes, they always hired mercenaries. But I agree, in the Martin world literally everyone seems to want to backstab everyone.
GRRM
Lucas at least doesn't pretend he's the greatest thing to happen to the film industry, he knows who is audience is and doesn't try to do act like he's creating the greatest thing ever.
>>62695727
That makes him a tryhard, the opposite of hack
>>62695479
>>62698157
>Tolkien's depiction of war comes from a WWI mentality and Martin's comes from Vietnam.
Gee how could they possibly come to different conclusions?
>>62700484
I'm not certain, but I'm pretty sure the Witch King threatens to strip Eowyn naked in front of the lidless eye.
>>62698157
but GRRM loves Tolkien. All he's saying is that it's okay when tolkien does it because he is a great writer, but when the tolkien imitators do the same shit it's awful
The name George Lucas, for better and for worse, will be remembered 50 years from now. His effects on Hollywood were profound and Star Wars is going to have a long legacy.
GRRM if he is remembered at all, will be for dying before finishing some fantasy books that were turned into a briefly popular HBO show that got more popular the more it deviated from his work.
Martin by a landslide which is saying something.
>>62701120
>GRRM if he is remembered at all, will be for dying before finishing some fantasy books that were turned into a briefly popular HBO show that got more popular the more it deviated from his work.
This
>>62697969
His view on the middle ages is pretty twisted and blown out of proportion.
I mean so far his books have been technically really good and the show too, in my opinion.
But in the Game of Thrones universe you REALLY get raped on your way to the bakery while you try to poison the neighbours cat because that little fucker is the king of the street. And on your way back you have to fuck through a defense line made of exotic prostitutes just to get home in time for dinner with your slutty wife and incest love child.
>>62695892
Dunk and Egg is really fucking good and you didn't even include it. Fever Dream also.
>one made a bunch of shit
>finally got one thing good enough to get popular by adding all his shit together
>now has no idea what to do to keep it good and finish it
The other
>made one good thing that wasn't even really good because of him, more in spite of him
>the more control he had over it the worse it got
>nothing else he's made since has been any good
>>62700310
That never ceases to make me laugh
>>62700310
>theyre not filming me?
>I still better help this guy out by looking directly at the camera and give him fame
Bald nerd should be thankful a hack like George even looked his way
>>62701461
Sandkings is his best finished worked, wonder if ASOIAF will have a similar twist with The Others or Varys or whoever
what does tv think of brian jacques? he's the only one who's name I remember that I actually read during mandatory reading in school.
>>62695892
>so that suggests he was talented at one point
no, it just means the people around him were talented enough to reign in his hackish tendencies.
GRRM hate meme needs to die. He has nothing to do with that shit TV show anymore
>>62695910
why would orcs rape humans?
the one in LOTR especially
GRRM wrote 2 great fantasy novels (GoT and Storm of swords) and 3 mediocre to bad ones. Lucas directed one great film and 4 okay to bad ones. The fact that D & D have no idea how to progress without George's help is a reflection on them being hacks, not George. although george's writing has gone way downhill, feast was atrocious, anything produced by anyone is better than the prequels, so GRRM wins.
>>62695479
Lucas because Martin's prequels are dope.
The Dunk & Egg novellas are honestly better than the main series.
>>62695534
Didn't Tolkien start writing in order to fight the trauma from WWI?
Do you guys really love Tolkein that much or do you just hate the GoT fanbase? Because, just so you know, Tolkein is frowned upon about as much as GRRM in the literary world. LOTR was written to prove Tolkein's thesis on language and even he knew it was an overly verbose mess as far as books were concerned. He just kept at it because it was his cash cow.
>>62704148
why the fuck people think AFFC and ADWD are bad books? they are definitely not. Scale got a lot of bigger and better, not just Lannisters vs Starks. AGOT is easily the "worst" book of the series
>>62698092
>>62704197
>Tolkein is frowned upon about as much as GRRM in the literary world.
/lit/ is not the 'literary world'
>>62704293
do some research kek desu senpai
>>62704293
>implying I ever go to /lit/
This has been discussed to death in tons of literary circles. The people that praise tolkein are the same people that think The Da Vinci Code and Harry Potter are works of greatness.
>>62704197
>award-winning series, major influence on an entire genre, voted to be best-loved novel in numerous countries, routinely finds its way into top 50/100 novels lists
>a handful of pretentious faggots hate it for being too successful or being high fantasy
try harder with the bait, George
>>62698864
There's something interesting about this if you ask me. George rips most of GoT from War of the Roses (this is his fallback excuse whenever he's criticized, he says WELL LOOK AT so and so IN HISTORY). But let's examine another little work actually FROM that time, the story of King Arthur as depicted in Le Morte D'arthur. The dude who wrote it was a real life rogue criminal and rapist but even HE lamented what a state England was in during the War of Roses, so he dredged up the Arthurian legends and wrote them in contrast to contemporary times to depict an era where loyalty, justice, mercy, compassion, etc (things women can't understand) were shown to be the highest possible aspiration in a man's life, and when the knights start to stray from it everything gets fucked and collapses.
George on the other hands rights it like a teenager with his dick perpetually in his sweaty hands thinking of the next shocking act of sexual violence turned up to 11 and then claim 'oh well medieval times were bad man so don't blame me.'
>>62704387
>not understanding how PR works in publication
You do realize Catcher in the Rye was panned and banned originally and is now considered one of the great american novels? The Fountainhead is also a steaming pile of shit as far as quality goes, but it has won tons of awards too. Why are people so easily brainwashed by award shows?
>>62704420
>George on the other hands rights it like a teenager
>rights it like a teenager
>rights it
>rights
Wow, that has to be really embarrassing for you.
>>62704352
Well I'll say right now I despise both those but enjoy Tolkien's work, so your assertion is already bullshit
>literary circles
You mean pretentious faggots circlejerking, whilst wishing they could've been the ones to write the stuff they complain about.
>>62704437
Fine then. Subtract the awards thing. The other stuff is still perfectly valid.
Gurm for never, ever, ever finishing the god damn series he started.
Nothing Lucas has ever done even comes close to it. Not the PT, not Jar Jar, nothing. It's like if Empire was released only until the half point and Jedi would have never came out. Not finishing your god damn epos and leaving your entire fanbase hanging is fucking criminal.
If anything Lucas has the opposite problem, of trying to add retarded shit to it after everything is said and done. This is surely autistic and awkward, but it's not as bad as Gurm's hackery.
>>62704387
>major influence on the genre
You clearly don't know shit about fantasy if you don't think GoT hasn't had a bigger impact on fantasy the past 20 years. But of course you don't, because LOTRfags know nothing about fantasy. They were told by their buddies or the media to read LOTR so they did it.
>>62704437
>mfw I read Catcher in the Rye knowing nothing about it's accolades
>enjoyed it immensely
How can people not like such a cute simple book. I read it in an afternoon and was really touched.
>>62704352
>The people that praise tolkein are the same people that think The Da Vinci Code and Harry Potter are works of greatness.
Idunno where you hang out m8 but this is objectively wrong. Surely there's some correspondence between the groups but the biggest LOTR fans are fantasy buffs who don't care much for this mainstream stuff.
>>62704529
This is actually true. The entire tone of the genre has shifted because of ASOIAF.
>>62704557
It's a good book but it only works if you read it around high school age IMO. I tried reading it in my mid-20s and didn't really get it.
>>62704529
What does that have to do with what I said? Did I say anything about GoT's influence on fantasy? Was I comparing them?
Shut the fuck up. Hopefully you starve to death whilst waiting for the next ASOIAF book.
>>62704511
GRRM can still finish the series, it's not like he is deadyet
What does "hack" mean exactly? I thought that it meant somebody who made it big out of sheer luck rather than skill.
And in that case, it would obviously be George Lucas, since he created something huge, and it only became successful thanks to other people getting involved in it. Meanwhile, GRRM just made some above average (for the genre) fantasy novels on his own, and they were adapted into a moderately successful show because shock value, sex and gore sell well.
>>62704595
I'm 24 and read it last year. I felt I got a lot out of it.
You don't have to be the same age as a character to understand them.
>>62704572
> fantasy buffs
Fantasy buffs and LOTR fans are almost mutually exclusive these days. The cult of LOTR generally does not permit discussion of fantasy unless the respective authors openly suck tolkeins dick. See this thread. Regardless of whether or not this is true, you would be hard pressed to find any fantasy buffs that view LOTR as anything but an extremely overhyped pillar of the genre.
>>62704595
this, upon rereads it becomes evident that holden is an insufferable whiny shit (like all teenagers)
>>62704633
I sincerely doubt that he'll be finishing all seven (or is it eight now?) books in his lifetime. Not at this rate.
GRRM was an alpha athlete in college at Northwestern. He could've played in the NFL but he decided to become one of the GOAT authors instead
>>62704613
Not even a GRRM fan faggot. I made it half way through GoT and put it down. I just don't polish an author's knob because society tells me to, which is largely what happens with Tolkein.
>IM SUCH A HUGE FANTASY NERD I READ LOTR, NARNIA, AND WoT XD!!!!
>>62704647
It's not about the age of the character, it's more about the general vibe and style. It has a very edgy and existential tone which transmits much better for teen reader. I don't think it's a coincidence that it's sometimes mentioned in the same lists as Atlas Shrugged (which is much less good as a novel obviously).
>>62704671
I don't know. My local annual fantasy con has one or two panels on Tolkien every time and it's frequented by serious fans of the genre. He's still discussed, even if not frequently read as more modern authors.
reminder that this stud is who you're calling ugly. whats it like, being legally retarded?
>>62704787
Not to be a dick, but they probably have Harry Potter there too and Harry Potter is considered a joke amongst fantasy buffs discerning enough to not buy Rowling's pet rock. A fantasy convention is not really a good gauge for that type of shit. Convention culture in general is deceptive.
>>62704674
>holden is an insufferable whiny shit (like all teenagers)
that's the point lad
>>62704753
>It has a very edgy and existential tone
I think we'll have to disagree on that point. I felt like it was a very truthful and sincere look at a developing young mind. Calling it edgy seems reductive and I don't think I don't read many books that couldn't be described as "existential".
>>62704794
Paul Blart?
>>62704831
They haveBuffy
>>62704852
I don't understand the reference as I have never seen that film.
>>62704794
>>62704852
Paul Blart, fantasy larp?
LotR vs GoT vsThe Witcher
Rank 'em
>>62704841
Not that guy, but I think you read the book the right way. Most people here seem to possess some fear of the past or present that Holden spends the entirety of the novel attempting to expose. Instead of taking the novel for what it is, they get hung up on the observations he makes as if it's uncool to praise a product even vaguely associated with iconoclasm. I identified with Holden as a teenager, but now I recognize his behavior is unacceptable purely in terms of survival. Other people seem to rationalize his thinking as toxic as they "grow out of it." People just like to think in terms of black and white and that novel threatens that duality.
>>62697925
He's the guy who only gives a shit about Star Wars and D&D and has more money than you'll ever make in your life for liking those things. Get fucked normie.
>>62704919
You already listed them in the correct order, anon.
>>62695479
Has anyone ever seen them together?
No, and that's because they are the same man.
GRRM is Lucas secret identity.
>>62700868
WW1 was far more horrible than the It Aint Me war
>>62706005
But at least it had a good cause.
>>62695491
>Why would you consider George RR Martin a hack?
He fired his editor and then started producing enormous books divided into two parts after astonishingly long waits.
>>62698242
>A shitty writer Lucas may be, but he finishes what he started
I wish he hadn't either finished or started the prequels.
SEX TAPE WHEN
>>62706005
'nam had a better sound track though. By far.
>>62695534
No he's modernising the fantasy genre. LotR was revolutionary at the time but fantasy fiction hasn't really moved on from Tolkien with good vs. evil, humans vs. orcs, elves are assholes and dwarves are drunks etc.
Also my name isGeorge.
>>62695479
George RR Martin, because George Lucas actually did something good once albeit with the help of others, GRRM is a complete all around hack
>>62695479
George Martin, by an extremely wide margin. Lucas is a hack, but he's so naive about tone and what makes for good entertainment that he's clearly out of touch, and has been for quite some time. He can be forgiven for never truly being creative, just motivated.
George Martin is a smart guy. He's educated, comprehends how to tell a good story, for example from the ASOIAF universe, The Hedge knight is a great little story, bookended properly. He's a capable writer with years of experience, but his masterpiece is a rambling epic that people masturbate to. He's a smut maker and he pretends he isn't. Plenty of writers are, but he has an image a lot more wholesome than the greasy old ghoul. he actually is.
But whereas Lucas, however deluded, had a vision for star wars as this crazy saga he told relatively succinctly, Martin is a meandering, indulgent cretin who has written a story so huge and needlessly complex that he can't possibly resolve it satisfactorily. Martin is a hack because he should know better but he still writes stream of consciousness bullshit that he clearly masturbates to.
>>62698092
ABSOLUTE POETRY MAN
