If Chaos also represents positive emotions, desires and concepts... Why aren't there any 'good' people getting their marks?
>>43523615
But there are good people who get the mark, how else do you think Horsey got corrupted?
Because just about anything can be good in moderation/if used appropriately, and the worship of Chaos requires them to fully devote themselves to their God's aspect. They won't use things in moderation or only when it's appropriate, but will instead force them wherever they can, and confine all of their thoughts, dreams, actions, EVERYTHING to that one small grouping of emotions/desires.
That's why, even if you started out with good intentions, you'll not seem good after you properly convert.
But, technically, Chaos Undivided cultists could still be good, but Chaos Undivided is technically Diet Chaos so I'm not sure if it counts.
But Chaos isn't good, the chaos gods are born and fueled primarily of the galaxy's enormous output of negative energy/actions/emotions.
Like >>43523701 said, the chaos gods exist only to propagate their own specific aspects, so it's not only easy but necessary to go overboard.
>>43523701
>anything can be good in moderation/if used appropriately
....including heresy?
As Magnus said even the gods seem to forget that they represent positive aspects
>>43523701
>>43523810
I'd also like to add to my previous point that Chaos can be a force for the better.
A man dying of a plague could accept his lot, and instead of wasting his life on needless panic, accept his lot in life and die peacefully.
A man who is wronged can get revenge on the asshole who killed someone he held dear, someone who may not have been stopped if not for this man placing an axe in his chest.
A revolutionary group could emerge by spreading learning and knowledge among the common people, clamoring for change which would lead to freedom.
A man whose life is nothing but bleak suffering could learn to enjoy even the smallest pleasures that there are to be experienced.
The issue comes when you have Ebola and decide to spit blood in other people's face because "it's a gift from Nurgle", decide to kill people indiscriminately because "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD", destroy everything in the search for knowledge because that's all that matters to you, or wreck your body with every drug known to man.
>>43523941
It works for radical inquisitors.
>>43523941
Yes.
>>43523941
Thats what the inquisition is for, isnt it?
>>43523615
Because the War in Heaven and the birth of Slaanesh fucked the warp over so bad that pretty much everything nice about it got crushed, while all the strife and suffering added to the bad aspects.
Chaos isn't what makes the Universe Grimdark, it's the Universe that makes Chaos bad. The four gods just do everything in their power to keep things as they are.
If there are gods of chaos, are there gods of law? Is their a reverse warp or anti-warp?
>>43523615
>Why aren't there any 'good' people getting their marks?
For the same reason that "good" meth or heroin addiction doesn't exist, idiot.
>>43523615
because in the grim darkness of the far future there's only war
I thought it was clear
>>43524857
I'm pretty sure all the nice and cuddly warp deities have long been eaten by the vicious and murderous ones. Chaos God of Joy would live approximately 2 seconds before Khorne made it his dinner.
Warp used to be much more calm and less nightmarish, and much more pleasant in the far past.
>>43523615
Sentient races produce much more negative emotions than positive ones. Just think about day-to-day life: people get frustrated by the smallest things, get depressed, deceive each other, and think in inappropriate ways. In the Warp, feelings get thrown about, dispersed, or overwhelmed by everything else if there isn't enough similar feelings to back them up. Hence, the more popular negative emotions survive long enough to concentrate into demons and the Gods while the positive emotions get consumed by them.
Of course, the surviving feelings only survive with support from related feelings and concepts: rage is supported by arrogance/pride and honor (drawn from battle), despair is supported by compassion (from friends and family). That's why Khorne is a proud, honorable god and Nurgle is like a kindly grandfather to his followers.
The War in Heaven ruined the Warp. The Emperor knew what fueled Chaos, and the Chaos Gods feared that his plan would change human nature for the better, as in humanity gains control of its emotions. If he succeeded then the Chaos Gods would be significantly weakened. And a lot of things get warped in well the Warp.
>>43526495
>That's why Khorne is a proud, honorable god and Nurgle is like a kindly grandfather to his followers.
Such as this. Khorne has no honor, and Nurgle's is a horrible grandfather/father.
>>43523615
Because there are a lot more negative emotions in 40k than positive ones, so the gods embody the negative emotions far more than they do the positive ones.
>>43526622
Khorne has honor, but an exact code of honor that only Khorne himself understands completely. A known part of this honor is that magic is frowned upon because it takes away from the up-close-and-personal part of combat. If anybody infringes upon Khorne's code, then they are given no mercy.
Nurgle is much kinder and benevolent to his followers and demons than the other gods and he takes away the physical pain from his followers. His different kinds of demons are practically castes of familial roles: the Great Unclean Ones are like caring older brothers or uncles, the Plaguebearers are like cousins, the Nurglings are tiny children, and even the Beasts of Nurgle have the mentality of puppies. Of course Nurgle has no greater concern for the lives of his followers than the other Gods but he's inherently nicer to them just because it's how he is.
>>43527061
>His different kinds of demons are practically castes of familial roles: the Great Unclean Ones are like caring older brothers or uncles, the Plaguebearers are like cousins, the Nurglings are tiny children
Said Nurglings get squished and eaten by Great Unclean Ones.
>>43527127
Never said it was the most functional family. Besides, Nurglings are a dime-a-dozen and the ones who don't get squished or eaten get carried around on/in the Great Unclean Ones. Nurgle's all about the inevitabile death of everything, including his own demons. It can come at any time.
>>43527287
>around in/on
>in
Wouldn't they still get eaten in that case?
What's so bad about becoming a slave to Chaos? Don't they all twist you into enjoying yourself?
>>43527331
>What's so bad about becoming a slave to Chaos?
Slave to darkness. That's the major thing. But let me tell you why.
1: The Gods will make you go on a quest for daemonhood, and the the second before becoming a DP the Gods will tell you "Hey guess what? This was a prank! You're going to be a Spawn now! Bye!"
2: You will be eaten by daemons.
3: You will be eaten by your fellow slaves
4: A Chaos Space Marine will eat you
5: A Chaos Space Marine will eat you and share your arms with Kharn because Kharn owed him a favor back in their loyalist days.
6: Abaddon will beat you to death because you looked at him, and slaves aren't allowed to look at him.
7: The Gods will order a Chaos Space Marine to eat you when he doesn't feel like it actually. He ate your pregnant wife who followed you into Heresy. He'll not make it personal however because your wife was the best meal he had in his life.
8: You will become a Spawn
9: A Chaos Lord will ruin your transformation into a DP because one of the Gods ordered him, or because he feels like it.
10: Chaos Space Marines and daemons will use you as cannon fodder.
>Don't they all twist you into enjoying yourself?
11: The Gods or a daemon will turn you sane again and laugh their butts off when you're overcome with guilt and disgusted. They will drink your tears of guilt and self hatred.
>>43527317
The Great Unclean Ones have open sores and tears across their whole bodies. The majority usually don't even care if their intestines are hanging out. Nurglings play around them and if they all need to go somewhere, the Nurglings will just hop in like a big organic carrier with the added bonus that the Nurglings can jump out and swarm somebody in the middle of fighting the Great Unclean One.
>>43523615
They do, o'kris from fire warrior got Kron's mark for having stats better then Ws2 Bs3 S2.
>>43527553
This right here
>>43526495
Woah woah woah, there is no proof that people naturally have more negative emotions than positive ones.
People get easily frustrated, but they also get easily humored or easily happy or what-have-you.
>>43523957
Like I'm gonna listen to anything some fuckin nerd says
>>43523941
>....including heresy?
Yes!
>>43524159
>Because the War in Heaven and the birth of Slaanesh fucked the warp over so bad that pretty much everything nice about it got crushed, while all the strife and suffering added to the bad aspects.
>Chaos isn't what makes the Universe Grimdark, it's the Universe that makes Chaos bad.
Being a Nice Daemonette is suffering...
>>43525292
>I'm pretty sure all the nice and cuddly warp deities have long been eaten by the vicious and murderous ones.
Sorta, Slaanesh did consume most of the Eldar Pantheon.
>>43527331
>What's so bad about becoming a slave to Chaos? Don't they all twist you into enjoying yourself?
True...
>>43527553
...As long as we're not dickish masters.
>>43527127
Do you not eat your children
>>43528755
>...As long as we're not dickish masters.
So nothing on my list was dickish huh?
>>43528778
I won't.
![latest[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/BvSjpJd.jpg "latest[1].jpg")
>>43523615
Because, they're deviant sinners!
Who lack devotion, to the one true god!
Whose very will, commands the tide of death to recede.
>>43528817
>So nothing on my list was dickish huh?
No, it was mostly dickishness.
Becoming our particular type of Chaos Spawn is pretty alright, but Pleasure Flesh is far from a standard.
>>43528961
Spawndom is always a bad thing.
>>43529029
>Spawndom is always a bad thing.
Not becoming Pleasure Flesh!
Sure, it's still mindless, but it IS a percolating concoction of mortal souls kept in an endless orgasmic orgy, and it's what we make Nice Daemonettes out of!
>>43529240
Are we sure you're not the aspect of excessive faggotry of Slaanesh?
>>43523960
But all those things imply moderation and Chaos completely and utterly lacks that concept which is why Chaos can never ever be good.
>>43523957
That's just the fan-wankery of a goddamn SJW-Swede, not official fluff.
>>43526495
The "Khorne is noble" meme has to fucking stop right about goddamn now.
It's old as fuck and outdated fluff. He is literally psychotic, murderous rage incarnate and nothing else. Blood for the blood god applies to everyone all the time.
>>43528755
>>43528942
>>43528961
>>43523974
>Yes.
>>43528755
>>....including heresy?
>Yes!
You chose...badly.
>>43523615
aside from the war in heaven completely fucking up the warp and throwing the afterlife out of balance, there is also the fact that the chaos gods corrupt each other and corrupt themselves.
corn, nurgle, and flappy bird were content to just chill in the warp until slaanesh was born from the elder's depravity and made them start aggressively invade the materium.
tweenchan actually keeps sabotaging his own plots because its in his nature.
corn might have originally been the gods of honorable combat, but that time has long passed.
>>43529240
>>43532648
Jokes on you, I'm already in the Eye of Terror, can't touch me, nananananana!
On a more serious note, a bit of heresy is always needed to get shit done. I mean, technically, the entire faith in the God Emperor is heresy, because Lorgar wrote it. But worship in a God is needed to keep stability in the Imperium, and it gives credence to the rule of the Imperial government; without it, the guys ruling you are ruling you just because they have most of the guns. And that kind of rule tends to breed rebellion... and rebellion breeds Chaos.
And hey, Kryptmann was declared a heretic, but he single-handedly saved mankind from the last tyranid incursion. I mean, sure he inflicted the largest genocide the Imperium ever inflicted upon itself since the Horus Heresy, but, it was all for a good cause and the salvation of mankind.
So yeah... as I said above, >>43523701, anything and everything can be good if used appropriately.
>>43529295
I said the very same thing in the very post you answered to, did I not?
>>43528755
>we're
You're roleplaying as Daeomnette, right? As a lesser daemon? Your nobody's master but your twelve dicks
Because chaos takes good concepts and warps and perverts it. Not complicated people
>>43536480
Technically, it could still be dominating, seducing and controlling some human cultists. I mean, that's what Daemonettes are for, right?
>>43523960
Not a single one of those things is an aspect of chaos though.
>A man dying of a plague could accept his lot, and instead of wasting his life on needless panic, accept his lot in life and die peacefully.
This is known as enlightenment, or understanding the true nature of Life - and its transience. You don't need to get the black plague to learn this. Therefore: not chaos.
>A man who is wronged can get revenge on the asshole who killed someone he held dear, someone who may not have been stopped if not for this man placing an axe in his chest.
This is the concept of "Justice", not murder. Every good faction acknowledges the role of justice. The first guy, however - the cold blooded asshole killer - now HE is chaos. And he sounds like a much badder dude, too.
>A revolutionary group could emerge by spreading learning and knowledge among the common people, clamoring for change which would lead to freedom.
This is the concept of liberation through education. It is the very definition of Order. The existing oppressors who they wish to liberate themselves from: those are the Chaotic ones. ("Chaos is a ladder", and all that).
>A man whose life is nothing but bleak suffering could learn to enjoy even the smallest pleasures that there are to be experienced.
This is known as being humble, or it's gratitude. Again it is accepting the prevailing way of things. Very un-chaotic.
I think that just maybe you don't understand what chaos is.
>>43536662
But isn't chaos is all about corruption, a man out for revenge might be justice, but khorne will use this anger to drag him down and corrupt him. It started out as justice but then he went of the deep end because of khorne whispering hateful thoughts into his ear.
>>43523957
He didn't. You got that from a "all the memes!" 40k show on yt.
>>43523615
> Why aren't there any 'good' people getting their marks
Well, having a Mark often requires quite an obsessive amount of effort, usually way outside human morality - so most of people working for Four end up looking amazingly screwed up.
Still, I actually think that's possible for a decent person to be Marked - they just keep it well under the radar. I'd be surprised to find out that some of the great philosophers didn't have the MoT or MoN. Zhukov and Patton DEFINITELY had a MoK. And certainly there are people worthy of MoS nowdays. I don't think it will be much different thousands years down the line.
>>43536662
All of this are very much within the aspects of the Chaos gods. I think you are the one who has troubles understanding Chaos here.
>>43523615
Good people get marked all the time, its just very hard to STAY good after that. I'm not going to say it's impossible but really might as well be.
>>43536662
>This is known as enlightenment, or understanding the true nature of Life - and its transience
That's exactly what Nurgle stands for. He just tends to embody this principle completely, the form being rather destructive to human body and brain. But it doesn't matter - those of his Children who embrace their true Grandfather understand the irrelevance of their frail mortality and join Grandpa in the decaying nothingness. Some don't, though. And some go mad. Welp, such is the way it goes...
>This is the concept of "Justice", not murder
Murder for justice is still murder. Righteous wrath is still wrath. Blood drawn for revenge still flows like any other blood.
Khorne is content with any blood as long as it flows. Kill or be killed, for greatest ideals or for lowest pettiness - all is well with him as long as you add another skull (yours or that of your enemy) to the Skullthrone.
>This is the concept of liberation through education. It is the very definition of Order.
It's CHANGE, by very definition, therefore obviously Tzeentchian. Do you really imply that the oppressors - the force for stagnation and upkeep of status quo (oh yeah, those two are pretty much the definitions of Order) would be pleasing to Changer of the Ways?
>This is known as being humble, or it's gratitude. Again it is accepting the prevailing way of things. Very un-chaotic.
You opinion: "If it's good it's not chaos. If it's bad it's chaos. Why? because bad is chaos and good is not chaos".
>>43536662
>This is the concept of liberation through education. It is the very definition of Order.
Anon, if someone's talking about liberation in 40k is basically assured they're tainted by chaos. Liberation through ______ is their favorite way to get you.
>>43523615
Because it doesn't pander to the neckbeard grognard's projecting of their persecution complex fetish.
>>43529335
Technically, it's still right.
Khorne also represents noble and honorable warriors. It's just that he, as every other Chaos god, twists and perverts those noble ideals into BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! Because that is his goal.
>>43537877
He does not.
Khorne is often called the "Bane of Honorable" and it's stated that Khorne has no mercy and honour in his heart. Also it's stated that his warrior code does not come from honour because he has none.
His mortal followers can be honorable (usually at the start of their fall) but the god himself is not. He is just hatred and rage and nothing else.
>>43529335
>>43537877
You do understand that 99% of actual psychotic, murderous bloodknights from IRL were also the noblest knights? Selflessly fighting the ideals of justice, honor and loyalty is literally the best way way to end up sitting on the tallest pillar of skulls.
>>43537904
>technically
Chaos Gods are parasites that leach off every emotion. Thus everything is represented in them, but Chaos being Chaos, they warp everything to suit their needs.
>kid gets his village slaughtered
>prays that he can avenge them
>Khorne grants him favor and he slaughters everyone responsible
>Khorne slowly twists his ideals until he becomes just another mindless berserker
It follows logically that at least certain aspects of Khorne are about honor and nobility, but again he twists them into blood lust and mindless slaughter.
>>43537877
>>43537904
Its both. Its up to the individual cultist in question to decide how he or she venerates their god. The god does not care what one mortal does or how it feeds it. It only cares to be fed and amused.
There is that one pirate prince that only harvests the skulls of the worthy by offering the worlds he ravages a chance to surrender, and actually showing mercy to the coward if they prove unworthy to be killed.
Then there is the typical berserker that just wants to kill everything forever for Khorne.
Both are correct and serving Khorne well. Since there are no scriptures or methods of conduct for Chaos. Khorne wants blood and skulls. The rest is irrelevant.
>>43537931
>*FOR the ideals
>>43537904
>Khorne is often called the "Bane of Honorable"
Of course. Because he drives his followers to be:
1. Honorable.
2. Suicidal.
Khorne brings downfall of honorable through the downfall of his warriors, who fulfill their honor by dying on the battlefield and giving their blood to Khorne.
> it's stated that Khorne has no mercy
Because mercy is dishonorable. Be having mercy you belittle and weaken your enemy. Through belittling and weakening your enemy you weaken yourself.
>>43537984
Don't bullshit now.
He is the bane of the honorable because he strips them of their honor and ideals and makes them mirror images of his essence. Murderous monsters of absolute violence.
True worshipers of Khorne who understand him kill for no other reason than killing for Khorne.
>>43528755
Say what you will about ND, she/he/it is a pretty decent artist
>>43537962
>Then, there was heresy.
>>43538018
How come killing for no other reason than for itself is not an ideal? How come honoring nothing but blood and axe is not the purest honor?
>Murderous monsters of absolute violence
No. That would be chaos spawns and shit - pathetic creatures unable to see the worth of blood.
A true warrior can understand what he's doing, and can't understand why would he do anything else. He must respect and appreciate life, and more than that - he must respect and appreciate his sacred duty to Khorne and to himself - the duty of taking it away from others and eventually himself.
He must harvest skulls.
>>43537877
It's not that Khorne is honourable more so that Khorne prefers the blood of champions over the blood of lambs to the slaughter.
He'll take the skulls of both; but favour the one from the honoured champion.
ITT:
People who can't accept that chaos isn't literally just deathevilmurderkill for the sake of it.
It's like the sun; nice to get a little bit of it, warm and comforting. Too little and you freeze to death, life has no meaning. Too much and you burn with its fire, life has no other meaning.
Ain't that hard, guys; they're aspect embodiments. Anything in excess is bad. It's just that by actually worshipping Chaos you're already at Mercury and flying closer, while the rest of us are sitting back here going 'wtf dude'.
The core of Khorne's essence is pure rage, but I guess it could be said that the... surface? of it is mixed with related emotions than can relate to the pirmal one, such as pride, justice and the like, which give Khorne his rational aspect and help him draw mortals into his core, the same way Nurgle's kindness draws the mortals to stop hoping and stagnate.
Khorne frowns upon weakness, cowardice and deceit
A proud warrior who starts the path of Khorne might stand by an honor code that forbids him from killing the defenseless, running or begging, and using underhanded methods, as all these are shows of weakness, cowardice and deceit. The further he goes into that path, the closer the proud warrior will be to the core of Khorne, and the more he will have to deal with the raw emotion that dominates his god's existence, which is rage and senseless violence.
Now, the now demon-like warrior can stick to his guns and keep doing what he's doing, or just say fuck it and go apeshit on everything that crosses him. I believe Khorne is fine with both choices as long as their goals remain seeking strong foes to offer worthy skulls, the only difference is that the first will ignore the cattle, while the second will go with one axe out of the window of his car chopping things that get near while on route to the big deal.
The ones Khorne loathes are the bitches that dedicate to slaugher human cattle with no real motivation to go search for big targets to test their skills. That's weak (killing defenceless meat), cowardly (not man enough to risk yourself in the big leagues) and deceitful (trying to gain Khorne's favour by pure quantity and no quality). If you're like that then you really don't need your mind to keep doing your job, you're spawn material. Only those who aim high get a chance for true demonhood.
In the end honor is a superficial portion of Khorne, but it's still Khorne and managing to keep it doesn't instantly disqualify you as long as the blood keeps flowing.
>>43538323
Indeed, Khorne is actually fine even with murderous psycos and slaughterers of the helpless - as by not seeking a worthier foe they weaken themselves, and therefore are doomed to fall on blades of better warriors. Or not fall - the axe will tell the final truth.
>>43524857
First of all, >>43525292 this, second of all
>God of Joy
would end up being being some sort of plaything for Slaneesh due to overlapping domains, third of all, the Warp is kinda like water so a Warp god of Law is like a Fish of Air. It's just not the right habitat.
I'd say the C'tan are closest, what with operating via a mastery of natural laws and WITHIN the Universe rather than via circumventing them while being outside it.
Emps too is kinda law above everything.
>>43537962
You know i'm looking at that and thinking i want to design that now.
>>43538508
What, Thomas the Khorne Engine?
>>43538420
Khorne punishments
>"What's this? Regrets? Weariness? Dreaming of something more in life? Shit nigga what the fuck are you doing, if it's gonna be like that I don't need you rational. SPAWN."
>"What's this? He POISONED his enemies to win? He AMBUSHED from BEHIND? He spoke shit about ME? What a bitch, release the hounds"
>>43538586
>He spoke shit about ME?
I... think Khorne actually enjoys getting shit-talked assuming the person is sufficiently angry while doing so.
>>43536480
>>43536573
Also could be a Greater Nice Daemonette, a Keeper of Secrets.
>>43538029
>Say what you will about ND, she/he/it is a pretty decent artist
Not my art man...
>>43538276
Except that's wrong because the warp is explicitly a broil of negative emotions. Any influence that comes from Chaos and the Warp is inherently corrupting.
