Let's-for-once-not-argue-about-Mage-Supremacy edition.
Last thread: >>46439518
http://pastebin.com/gsYUFPGD
>>46455817
>In Awakening, magic is god. God is everywhere. Mages have made contact with god and see his hands in everything. But the world is fallen, impure, as are they, so their ideal is being able to become one with god.
>Note: God is not a bearded figure who wants anything, it's just a force of order that pushed back the primordial chaos, like a supernatural big bang
This is argued about a LOT in-setting.
The Mysterium literally believe this. The other major factions have different ideas.
>>46455876
Reposting something nice from the last thread:
Btw, this is what I was thinking of doing if running Werewolf The Apocalypse. Keep in mind this is me interpreting the setting as I see fit. Some of this is just me stressing up some parts over others while some parts are fluff changes.
-The main theme is 'divided we fall': the Garou are supposed to be a pack, yet their society is incredibly divided. Not only did they purge the other shapechanger species, breaking the unity of gaia's children they now fight each others too much to properly combat the Wyrm.
-The White Howlers didn't all fall to become the Black Spiral Dancers. But this also mean that most, if not all of the shattered tribes have pockets of their population which are full-blown Wyrm worshipper for a variety of reasons. Croatoan and Bunyip are still extinct.
-Garou vs Garou conflict is complicated, ranging from territorial dispute over remaining Caern to major ideological split, which range from Pure vs Corrupted (as close as good vs evil it can get) to debate about the future of mankind and how to handle it. This was already there with the Red Talons, only its stressed more here. Some tribes, meanwhile, want to purge other tribes/Garou group because they hold them to be weak/impure (again, Red Talon but also bringing back the crazy neo nazi sub-sect of the Get of Fenris). Some packs are also Wyrm-influenced, althought this is different from going full blown Black Spiral. The former don't think they are insane, the latter go all GLORY TO CHAOS!
-The other shapechanger (those that remain) want to kill the Garou in acts of spiteful revenge. If the game already like to stress a lot of the guilt of the white man and western civilization over shitty actions in their past then I would definately stress up the fact the Garou have their own shitty history to account for, with some people wanting to hurt Garou which have technically done nothing wrong (but their ancestors did).
>>46455898
>The Mysterium literally believe this. The other major factions have different ideas.
Giving yourself up to the Supernal is a rough choice, it involves destroying your identity and agency, basically everything you are.
Has anyone tested the Changeling 2e playtest rules?
I'd like to, but my group complains that they don't want to be beta testers.
>>46455917
Another potential point: Homid Lost Cubs may or may not be increasingly a large % of Garou population. This mean A) maybe its a sign of the end time, as all the lost children are awakening B) maybe it mean its time for the Garou elder, who are bestial and disconnected from human society (except maybe Glass Walker and Bone Gnawer) to do some soul-searching about the place of the race in the world.
The difference is that here, the faillings of the Garou are emphasized. They become much more tragic in their self-destruction...and thus it make them a lot more like humans: in a way, Garou and humans are mirror to each others its just they would never admit it.
>>46455937
-Tone down (or make more nuanced) the childish 'civilization is evil'. I know this goes against a lot of the spirit of the game but garou come off as assholes for wanting humans to abandon all the good part of civilization. May or may not get rid of Pentex, not sure about this part. 'The Man' might exist, but I'd stress that to lives of many people its a necessary evil for them to live, something already there in the lore which I'd emphasize.
-Might ignore other supernatural splats unless I need them. Re-imagined vampires can and should be a thing as they very well represent the darkest and most twisted side of human nature and civilization.
-Overall move back the scale to something more NWoD, where the action is more regional and fragmented.
>>46455917
>>46455937
>>46455957
This sounds like Forsaken with Apoc tribes and animal/man reproduction
>>46455898
There's a difference of the opinion within the Mysterium, too. The Supernal may have a degree of intelligence, or it may be a blind ecosystem of warring axioms. Or it could be something stranger still!
The Silver Ladder, meanwhile, has the Avatar, which is the collective soul of humanity dominant over the cosmos, and the Arrow has Supernal as Self, both of which can lead to the same conclusion, or they can be totally different.
There's a lot of diversity, is what I'm saying.
>>46456020
>There's a lot of diversity, is what I'm saying.
One thing we can agree on is that god/supernal is in everything.
>>46456020
>The Silver Ladder, meanwhile, has the Avatar, which is the collective soul of humanity dominant over the cosmos
That's cool! Where is more info this found?
>>46456078
The Adamantine Arrow splatbook
>>46456107
...Yes. That makes sense.
Also, that's probably why I don't remember it. The AA book is quite ridiculous.
>>46455994
Meh, and taking the best of each is wrong because...okay well except the animal/man reproduction that was always squicky.
>>46455924
In a certain sense. It depends how you do it, and how you view identity and agency. The Exarchs certainly seem to have both, for example.
How the fuck does Beast have fans?
>>46455924
Actually, the actual canonical text says otherwise.
>>Ascension maintains self identity. The Ascended sometimes send Ochemata and pursue interests in the Fallen World, proving that they maintain self-identity. They might possess the power to maintain many authentic selves, or merge with other souls, but they are ultimately still individuals with their own passions and motives. Seers of the Throne often teach that the Ascended dwell within the greater souls of the Exarchs, but that they’re completely themselves, existing in harmony with their patrons.
Note that this isn't a "This is what Archmasters believe" entry, it's a "These are the facts" entry.
>>46456146
the tribes aren't really fit, either
>>46456197
>The Exarchs certainly seem to have both, for example.
seers put an identity on the exarchs, and they don't have agency
an exarch must exarch, they can't decide to start supporting pro-choice movements unless it's somehow going to support tyranny
>>46456229
Yeah, it's just Exarchal ascension that erases you.
>>46456229
>Seers of the Throne often teach that
>Note that this isn't a "This is what Archmasters believe" entry, it's a "These are the facts" entry.
>>46456261
Nah, there are loads of lesser Exarchs up there in the Supernal too. They're still underlings of the Iron Seals, but...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5_ogU4Jzt4
This guy is not mad, he's just Colin.
>>46456275
Yes, as in, "that's how Seers reconcile the known fact that Ascension Maintains Self-Identity with the fact that Seer Archmasters clearly become more and more under their patron's umbrella as they gain in power and favor". These two facts are both facts. The Seers have a theory on how they fit together.
>>46456276
Yes, but they rose with the other Exarchs back in the day.
When someone is raised up by Exarchal Grace, it's because they become part of the Exarch.
>>46456078
>>46456144
Just a little. Obviously, each segment is in each Order's book.
>>46456075
The Supernal's nature is as much up for debate as anything. That's part of the fun in Mage; developing your character's own metaphor for the big Truth.
Is the Supernal a divine realm, from which all manner of gods order the world, according to their natures?
Is the Supernal the vault which contains the Platonic Forms and the source of the light which gives the world shape?
Is the Supernal a kind of "hidden layer" of the Fallen World? The source code of reality?
These all ultimately describe similar base features - the Supernal is a feature of reality which acts in some way to define the world we experience - but the subtle features of the metaphor are tremendously important.
Is the Supernal an actual realm, somehow "higher" than our reality? A physical place to which one can journey?
Is the Supernal the true reality, while our world is just an illusion created by the shadows the Supernal casts?
Or is the Supernal one with our world in an intimate synthesis? One an expression of the other, fully dependent and inseparable?
All these and more no doubt get angrily debated by the Awakened.
>>46455876
http://pastebin.com/NjH6gQqi
you forgot the new pastebin link senpai
>>46456213
One of the great mysteries we must face in our lives is that everything has fans. There's certainly enough to Beast's main hook (i.e. play a nightmarish creature of legend) that people can look past its flaws and like it. Some people even like it for what it is for their own personal reasons. You can have a good time with anything if you try hard enough.
>>46456373
Ah. Didn't know it had been updated. I just used the one that the last thread had. Sorry for that.
>>46456254
I don't see that as a loss of agency, since the Exarch would ultimately not desire to be anything but an Exarch. Agency is your ability to act of your own volition and the volition of Ascended beings is in no way limited. They are what they wish to be.
We don't really know what an Ascended being that wishes to be something other than what it is would look like, because they quintessentially are The Thing Which Is Itself; the Platonic ideal of the symbol they embody.
The only reason to look at that is a fear of confinement; of being imprisoned or deprived of your volition. Such a reaction is natural and sometimes healthy, but it ignores that you are already a prisoner of your own nature; an illusion allowed only by its complexity. The Ascended are simply grand enough to know their own natures and thus have no illusion.
>>46455931
If you want to run something, I'd be down. I'll post my Skype for it if there's any other interest.
>>46456544
I've never ran anything over the internet, but if that's fine with you I'm up for trying to get something going.
>>46456418
>>46456618
What times work? In GMT, preferably
>>46456635
I read that and I still don't understand it.
>>46456642
Sunday-Thursday. I live in CET so GMT is fine with me.
>>46456642
>>46456690
Wait. Times, not days. Basically, evenings. Can do fairly late.
>>46456213
It's like Vampire on 'roids
it's grown on me
>>46456704
How's your 7pm on Tuesdays?
I got a weird e-mail from a girl asking me to support her accusations of rape against a guy. I don't know either of them (I went to the college they're at)
>>46456751
Works.
>>46456766
>Asking you to act as a witness to a crime
I'm fairly certain that's illegal in most countries. Check for whatever state you're in, and if it is send the email to the police. In fact, do that either way - it could be classed as evidence that she's lying and just wants to start a witch hunt.
>>46456779
Aight, my Skype istommy.middleton8
>>46456805
Not as a false witness, she's asking people who have had similar experiences to come forward. Her experiences are very weird, though, and don't seem to be rape.
>>46456824
What did she say? Screencap the email for us and post it.
>>46456824
Is her story the same as the one getting spammed on /tg/ the last few days?
>>46456858
>Is her story the same as the one getting spammed on /tg/ the last few days?
the white male terrorists one?
>>46456929
Yes.
>>46456998
>>46456841
Ah no.
Here's the bulk of it, the names are innocuous enough
John taught a class my first semester of the program. During this class, he groomed me, isolated me from my peers and the other professors, and repeatedly made excuses to get me alone in his office. During one meeting in October, I blocked out part of what happened in his office and after, he smirked about my lack of awareness as to whatever had occurred moments before. I thought it was weird and brushed it off, despite my increasing symptoms of severe trauma. In March, I met with him again about research. He repeatedly, obviously checked me out and brought my attention to the fact that he was staring at my butt as I was leaving the office. I don't remember exactly what happened after that, so I don't want to comment too much on it, other than there were physical, in addition to the psychological, signs of what occurred...After he brought attention to his actions as I was trying to leave, something happened that caused me to have a psychotic break. I have never had one prior to this and have not had any psychosis since all of this ended, but the psychosis lasted nine days...
>>46456966
Are otherkin like this just the tumblr version of chuunibyous?
>>46457014
>HE TOTALLY DID SOMETHING TO ME BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT
okay sure
>>46456766
You have no duty to report any crime you witness. Unless you receive a subpoena ignore it could be a scam.
>>46457024
It's all chuuni. Exact same causes, exact same symptoms, exact same end result.
Chuuni is a cosmological constant of the human race; it's just a question of how early or late in life you get it embarrassed out of you.
>>46457014
>no memory of what happened
>but he definitely did something
>physical and psychological signs of what occurred
>no idea what they are
>>46457054
That's the thing.
I don't expect a graphic account of a rape scene but it's like "I was in his office and I forgot what happened"
>>46456766
Forward it to the police anyways. A psychotic break can lead to bad things.
Sounds like she was definitely affected by rohypnol, though.
So... Can we get back to discussing CofD and stuff? This feels like a weird, out-of-nowhere diversion.
>>46457014
The individual had her psychotic break long before she met "John," assuming he is even a real person and not a figment of her imagination,
>>46456635
Again, fandoms for everything. Even the "In all aspects except physical, I am a dragon" crowd.
>>46457118
Wow, kinphobic much?
>>46457118
I'm discussing Beast.
>>46457156
Please tell me you found the one blog with food recipes to satisfy kintype cravings. That's the most Beast blog.
>To temporarily satisfy your Hunger for Power, build a city of Ritz Crackers and savory cheeses labeled "The Weak" and yell and scream as you chomp into them
>>46457156
how do people like this react to medieval and earlier stories were dragons are a representation of evil or satan?
>>46457156
>"I think I'm a dragon."
>"I KNOW! LET'S EAT ROCKS!"
Jesus, you're an otherkin, not Diego Brando.
>>46457130
She gives his full name in the rest of the article, and he is a real person (I'm not entirely sure she is, she doesn't pop up on search). She says she went to the state police but they didn't take her accusations seriously and that if she gets a few more people to make accusations cnbc or something will investigate it.
Since we were discussing what crossover rules would be provided for Mummy and Mage in the Dark Eras Companion a few threads ago, particularly the problem of Mummy's 1e mechanics, I though it notable that Dave offered some good news today,
>"That's not saying "we won't do it ever", but an Awakening crossover section has to explain what everything looks like under Mage Sight, which Arcana affect them bodily, how magic interacts with their own supernatural powers and a host of other things. We do it for Mummy: The Curse in the upcoming Companion volume for Dark Eras, as there's a Mage/Mummy crossover setting in it. It's several thousand words long, and technical, rules-y words at that. It requires an author who knows both Mage and the game in question backwards, who can navigate the heightened expectations of the fans of both Awakening and the other game."
Unfortunately, Dave also made clear that a Mage book exploring general crossover is not anticipated at all for the foreseeable future.
http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/mage-the-awakening/555591-2e-familars?p=859030#post859030
>>46457256
Don't do it anon, she's clearly gone round the bend, up the wall and out through the sorting office.
>>46457156
Fair enough.
I tried rejiggering Beasts ages ago and ended up making some unholy crossbreed of Changeling and Demon, with a dash of A Shadow over Innsmouth on top. At the very least, though, it got rid of the mental image of Clark from Accounting flapping his arms and flying because in his heart he is secretly a Thunderbird.
I honestly feel like I should include insane otherkin malarky as an example for how Beasts act as children, before their soul turns them inside out.
>>46457296
>At the very least, though, it got rid of the mental image of Clark from Accounting flapping his arms and flying because in his heart he is secretly a Thunderbird.
This made me laugh.
I think we should take a step back at this point and remember that vaguely "progressive" and "respectful" stuff like he little sidebars about gender and shit in the book are not intrinsically linked to insane SJW bullshit like the concept of fluid gender and otherkin-ism. The amount of complaining each time one of these things is noticed is a bit silly.
The otherkin-ness of Beast doesn't bug me. I really really like the nightmare themes though. Especially the Lair traits, overlaying dream logic on reality, or trapping someone in a literal dream.
Dunno, just works for me.
>>46457323
To clarify, I'm not talking about beast. Beast was otherkin power fantasy as shit in its original release, even if it had some interesting ideas.
>>46457323
Yes, it is.
>>46457318
Really, Beast gets ten times funnier when you imagine every Beast is the most utterly banal person possible.
>>46457248
I know I once read about a guy who was protesting againt the elf holocaust that exterminated his race.
>>46457256
If the cops aren't giving her the time of day. You sure as hell shouldn't get involved.
>>46457323
But how can I prove I'm the Best Culture Warrior without cherry picking something to derail the thread for a hundred posts?
>>46457330
It's all cool in concept, it's just disappointing that there's few, if any opportunities to go full manifestation FUCK YOU I'M A DRAGON, which I think would cut down on the otherkin-ish feeling.
>>46457156
Po is a panda in the material, but in the spirit his soul is that of a dragon.
Whilst in the real world he has strength beyond other mortals and can manifest some degree of supernatural might.
But only in the spirit world can he manifest his true form and fly through the air as a mighty golden dragon.
#notallBeasts #fuckotherkin #kungfupanda3
>>46457330
My take on Beast doing a rewrite was to make it a war between dreamers. Beasts were distinctly Other in the Primordial Age, before humanity, and thus humanity reacted to their presence like an immune system to a foreign invader; instilling those sensitive to the call with the powers of Heroes.
Now, Beasts are protected; having to hide and blend in with humanity. That's why they appear human to most people; they're connected to humanity's collective. And they can feed off of it, like a parasite.
Even clever parasites can't evade the immune system forever, though.
>>46457416
Wait seriously does this happen
>>46457396
Well, it's more about nightmares than other kin. I actually really like coming up with non-traditional nightmares. Instead of an Ogre, it's an abusive parent. Instead of an all-seeing Roc, it's a Msn in Black. Instead of a vampiric leach, it's an Otaku. That kind of thing.My go to other kin game is fireborn
>>46457387
The racism and revisionism that has wiped the Elf Shoah from the history books is a shame we shall never overcome.
#MakeElvesGreatAgain
>>46457363
>Beast gets ten times funnier when you imagine every Beast is the most utterly banal person possible.
"Alan, are you a cow?"
"What? No."
"Ya, me neither, you guys want to go skateboards?"
>>46457240
>"This life is full of random death, and heaps of grief and shame. So few are soothed by 'accident', you want someone to blame. Fire, plague and strange disease; drowned, murdered or, if you please, a long fall down the basement stairs. None are expected, no-one cares."
>"I often must work very hard, sweat running down my skin, after the dance I then must rest, and then the eating can begin..."
>>46457444
https://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1459216089489.webm
3 really ramped up the power level
>>46457488
>asdf reference
Well, balls. I ain't topping that.
>>46457514
Plus the guy is classic Beast, his disrupts friendships, breaks up marriages and kill orphans.
>>46457462
I assume "non-traditional" Horrors and Families are going to get more support in that Beast Player's Guide OPP's cooking up. That's the smart money right there. There's a bounty of money to be had if you let people play Morgan Daniel Slenderman.
>>46457444
That is the ending of Kung Fu Panda 3, yes.
>>46457548
>That is the ending of Kung Fu Panda 3, yes.
>this trans stuff is popular now, in't it?
>yeah
>alright lets put that in the movie
>>46457548
>Morgan Daniel Slenderman
Read that as Morgan Slenderman, now I'm picturing Slenderman "As voiced by Morgan Freeman." dammit.
>>46457561
Fuck you dude, it was good and I thought showcased a nice alternative to the generic otherkin Beast mentality.
>>46457576
New Nightmare: Soothing Voice - A soothing voice reads out unsettling things, so you can't spend Willpower or something.
>>46457507
In KFP , with the snow leopard escape, I thought "this looks like Exalted". Now it is fully confirmed.
>>46457597
The villain in that movie's pretty much what a Reaper is, right? Like all normal people, I consistently look for WoD references in the one place where it can be found in plenty: children's movies.
>>46456766
Why are you posting this on a /wodg/ thread exactly?
>>46457330
The Lair mechanics were one of the few impressive, or at least interesting, items in Beast (written by Dave).
If done properly, Beast would have been an interesting chapter concerning an unusual race of beings in the Temenos within a revised Astral Realms developed by Dave and authored by some of the Mage writers like Malcolm.
Sadly, Beast was developed thematically (if maybe unintentionally) as an adolescent Otherkin revenge power fantasy, its overall setting and mechanics were anemic or absurd, particularly the lack of social groups and Mary Sue crossover rules, and the literal last minute attempts to fix some of the many problems with the "teach people lessons" shtick was insufficient, poorly integrated, and largely unbelievable.
On a slightly positive note, Matt's attitude concerning Beast appears to have improved (and he's definitely been humbled), and he's soliciting more feedback and being far more deliberate and thoughtful with Beast's upcoming supplements like the Player's Guide. No doubt Matt wants to use the supplements to fix and expand the setting, but unfortunately the corebook's established setting (or lack thereof) and fan perceptions are so ingrained that repairs may be impossible.
>>46457611
Your Doom Is Written (Nightmare)
Manip + Expression - Composure
From the darkness, a soothing voice narrates your actions as you perform them. Quickly, narrative starts to overtake action. The last thing you hear is your inevitable doom, spoken with all the gentility of the narration of a nature documentary.
The target loses their Defense until their next action.
>>46457697
The exalted fandom recovered from infernals, and we're a bunch of gibbering retards
Surely the CofD fanbase can manage this
>>46457686
Who else has as much experience with unstable SJW types?
>>46457739
>Who else has as much experience with unstable SJW types?
>>>/v/
>>46457697
I'll be supporting Beast. Like I mentioned earlier, the nightmare themes float my boat. Also, I'm a sucker for crossover crap, so that helps.
>>46457686
It's in the title: /cofd/&/wodg/: Internet Culture Wars, Legal Advice, and Mage Supremacy Discussion.
>>46457728
Didn't Infernals have a really good second half, though? At least mechanically.
What would be a decent Wyrd-spread for a Freehold?
Is it like Mages who peak at 4-ish, or like the Vampires exponential decrease of Blood Potency?
>>46457798
There's nothing especially wrong with Beast's mechanics except a few wonky options, which Infernals had too
>>46457815
higher than 5 is rare but not unheard of, there's a handful of them
at that point many are probably living away from the freehold and only come by occasionally
>>46457860
Does a linear decrease up to Wyrd 5 sound too implausible?
>>46457815
I feel like Freeholds are places where most Changelings are High Wyrd or Low Wyrd with surprisingly few in between, much like their Clarity.
>>46457756
Hey, if like Beast, power to you. I'm not looking to be a buzzkill. It's just you're in a distinct minority among WW fans, many of whom had high hopes for Beast and were sorely disappointed in the final execution.
However, if you really want to read about creative and interesting crossover within the CofD, check out the crossover sections of the Demon Player's Guide. I'm not even a big fan of the Demon setting, but the relevant sections of that book were fantastic and effectively a "how-to" manual for future WW writers on how crossover is properly accomplished. (Notably, the one major group without a Demon crossover blurb were Beasts).
I don't know who wrote the crossover section in the DTG, but Matt should hire the authors yesterday.
>>46457905
yes
>>46457946
I'm pretty sure it was a group of people. If I remember right, AmyV did the Promethean one.
>>46457728
>>46457798
>>46457820
Infernals were great, if blatantly overpowered, if you ignored the first 2 chapters of the book.
The blatant OP stuff being because the devs literally decided 'fuck it, these are the points of the system that aren't broken enough yet, lets break them even harder'
>>46457998
(and the first 2 chapters being so horrible because it was in the late days of White Wolf, and the guy writing it waited until the last moment possible to push the stuff he'd written to editing so that nobody could send it back to him and make him re-write it without making the entire book miss a deadline they had)
>>46458034
Wait seriously? Was there no redlines phase where the Exalted editor went "Hey what the fuck is this bullshit you're sending me?"
>>46457258
>Dark Eras Companion Mummy/Mage crossover will have several thousand words of detailed crossover mechanics, including rules that may partially update Mummy to 2e.
This is fantastic news. Many of the chapters in the Companion sound even more interesting that the eras in the original book, plus we're getting things like detailed crossover and Sekhem sorcerers.
I'm surprised more people aren't excited, and would rather rehash the same old Beast complaints.
>>46457248
I T ' S N O T R E A L
>>46457972
>>46457946
Ironically, Matt apparently developed the Demon Storyteller's Guide.
How could he have done such a great job with crossover in that book, but allowed Beast to be such a RPG abortion?
My own theory is that Beast became Matt's experimental vanity project, and he let it get widely out of control, ignoring all good faith efforts to rein him in.
>>46458147
>I T ' S N O T R E A L
Some people are not cognizant that fantasy isn't real. It one of the reasons Tumblr exists.
>>46458203
none of it's real. if we let reality get in the way there's be no chrinocles of fagnes
Why are these threads going so fast
I remember when WoD threads were about vampire lolis and cool shit that happened in games.
Now it's furries, gay knotting and SJW.
Can't wait for a splatbook about muslim immigrants.
>>46458180
Or, you know, people make things that they think are good but are actually not that good according to everyone else. Not to mention OPP kind of needs new CofD lines every so often to bolster up sales. Beast is a pitch that's general but iconic enough to get traction. It just happened to get into some heady territory that there was neither enough time nor people power to fully think out. It's kind of like Geist really, except Geist didn't belly flop into the concept of alien morality powered protagonists.
>>46458273
>I remember when WoD threads were about vampire lolis
Yeah it's almost like we traded one awful bullshit topic for another. That doesn't make the first awful bullshit topic better.
>cool shit that happened in games.
Which happens almost never, even in the before times.
>>46458273
>cool shit that happened in games.
That's from before we had constant generals. People kept that shit bottled up, and when a WoD thread happened, it was mentioned in there.
Stuff like that still happens, but there's a lot more idle talk in between.
>>46458317
What? Vampire lolis are a thing since the beginning of vampire stories. Remember Carmilla? Or Claudia?
>>46458279
I was specifically referring to crossover mechanics and narrative.
If you didn't know better, you would absolutely never believe that the same developer oversaw crossover in both Beast and the Demon Storyteller's Guide (and how was Beast crossover skipped in the DSG?).
>>46458377
One could argue that the constant generals is why the same old topics keep coming up, over and over. There's never enough content to prevent a general from going to shit and developing its own insular nonsense squabbles.
>>46458424
The fact that you're calling them "vampire lolis" is part of the reason why it was an awful, bullshit topic. It comes off as cutesy, waifu trash with a slight goth bent.
>>46458434
>(and how was Beast crossover skipped in the DSG?).
DSTG, I believe, was in development around the same time Beast was in development, so there was no real solid game to bounce off of. The only reasons Beasts show up in Dark Eras at all is because the "Meanwhile..." sidebars were written much, much later in the book's development.
>>46457770
>It's in the title: /cofd/&/wodg/: Internet Culture Wars, Legal Advice, and Mage Supremacy Discussion.
We obviously need more discussions about transgender Silver Ladder mage masters who are experts on the Lex Magica and who demand special pronouns be incorporated into all Shadow Names and revealed and accepted as Supernal Truth.
#MySanctumIsASafeSpace
#SleepersAreTriggering
#ParadoxIsAMicroaggression
>>46458273
You're right, this thread is exclusively for talk about gay werewolves. Not a single other topic of discussion.
>>46458180
Beast is a pet project that never should have been made into a core book. By the time it saw the light of day, it was too late to cancel, and now OP is stuck with it.
>>46458493
It's not like it's a normal word that is even used to describe an entire fashion style or anything.
>>46458493
>It comes off as (a) cutesy waifu with a slight goth bent.
fixed that for you
>>46458582
Most of this thread is about Beast. Which is in many ways even worse than gay werewolves.
>>46458556
I assume that every major Consilium has at least one young Libertine that's constantly, loudly and annoyingly espousing hir belief in feminist Supernal theory, Atlantean imperialism, or other nonsense.
How do Consilia and Caucuses deal with "That Guy (or Thon?)"
>>46458610
How did the Beast Fiction Anthology manage not to include a story about the adventures of a Beast and his gay werewolf sidekick?
#LostOpportunities
I know this will piss off a lot of people but: I think it would be way more fitting of the 21st century if Pentex re-imagined itself as a socially progressive, more eco-friendly company who primarily market their stuff at overprivileged hipsters. Of course they would be as corrupt and evil as ever, just now they got this facade of being on the 'right side' for a certain type of people, who blindly consume while thinking that doing so is 'sticking it up to the man'.
>>46458589
That's not how most of 4chan uses it and you damn well know it. Cut that willfully dense crap.
>>46458798
That was literally something the Syndicate did in Mage. It was their strategy against the... Euthanoi? Whatever they were called.
>>46458713
>Atlantean imperialism
>Libertine
Not even your precious Diamond believes in Atlantis anymore, grandpa.
>>46458741
Because they already did Beast and gay/trans vampire sidekick in the original book. Among all the other weird ~genderqueer~ transgressive pandering fiction in Beast core. That would have actually been too predictable, and thus not fitting.
>>46458610
It's worse in all ways. Gay werewolves can at least be cute and contribute to interesting campaigns, like they do to mine.
>>46458798
So, what, like if Pentex became Apple? Are we sure that's not already the case?
>>46458815
I don't think I ever saw a Vampire game where vampire lolis were never at least mentioned. And I play this shit for 15 years.
Stop acting like it's some niche waifu crap.
>>46458058
The phase existed, but he waited so long to push it through to the next guy that there was no time for them to do that.
>>46458841
I mean come on, if Jezebel and the Mary Sue aren't Banes-as-websites I dunno what else is?
>>46458713
It's kinda complicated. Life Mage Sight and a few seconds will tell you what gender the speaker is, biologically. Mind and the same will tell you the mental check.
There, fact. No more arguing about who is what. Anyone claiming to be mayonnaise-gendered or something like that is going to get shut down hard, because people have evidence that it is, in fact, not so.
>>46458203
I mean that those blogs are not real views. It's people trolling and bullshitting. It's like 4chan. Why would you believe the things people say?
>>46458890
ReturnOfKings and Men Going Their Own Way push from the other direction.
In CofD, they'd all be Seer puppets.
Why is WoD General so sensitive to the presence of trans stuff? God damn, you won't get the cooties.
>>46458949
Oh piss off Amy, nobody's in the mood for your shenanigans
>>46458927
>no true scotsman
>>46458928
Honestly, in both Worlds of Darkness I can totally see the two extremes as actually the same corrupting force playing both sides. Especially how...symbiotically linked those two extremes are in real life.
>>46458883
It's absolutely niche waifu crap when 4chan's involved. For every decent use of it, like Claudia and Camilla and (to make things a bit more relevant) Lullay, Lullay, you get threads full of fa/tg/uys daydreaming up fanfiction about how great it'd be to have their own Remillia Scarlet or some shit. The concept of vampire children is fine, it just ends up a trainwreck when its discussed here, for the various reasons decent cliches get wrecked when /tg/ gets involved.
>>46458975
I'll agree there is some Poe's law involved but that only happen because there are people stupid enough to buy into this crap and allow the fake articles to be posted...because they see them as real and legit.
>>46458978
Yeah. Horseshoe Syndrome is a thing.
Hard to tell which side is more annoying.
>>46458869
>Because they already did Beast and gay/trans vampire sidekick in the original book
I remember when WoD was for goths and angsty teens. Now it's for trannies and SJW autists.
When I was starting most of people interested in Vampire games were Hellsing fans and cute girls who were into cosplay and gothic lolita. Now it's fat hairy dudes spewing litanies about social justice when their trans gay shota vampire is getting pitiful stares from people.
>>46457014
Best game yet.
>>46458975
So you believe anything? I'm actually Dracula, and I'm canceling the WoD RPG and focusing solely on pachinko games.
>>46458798
More realistic would be something like Toms, where they say they'll donate shoes to Africa, but really that just puts African cobblers out of business, and no one needs shoes in the first place.
>>46459021
WoD was always edgy and progressive. They caught flack for using female pronouns, and they caught flack for having gay characters. In the 90s. If you don't think WoD was SJW before SJW was a thing, you weren't paying attention.
>>46459021
>I remember when WoD was for goths and angsty teens. Now it's for trannies and SJW autists.
Nah they just grew into '20-to-'30-something progressives who think videogame and tabletop is a haven for mysoginist terrorists who can't accept how its Current Year and we should all accept progressive values like not having free will.
>>46459021
With all the whining you do, it sounds like you'll fit right in then!
>>46459057
>If you don't think WoD was SJW before SJW was a thing, you weren't paying attention.
>Werewolf is about how evil society and science is
>Mage is about how your feels over reals give you magic powers
Ayup! Where do you think progressive nonsense started in Tabletop? White Wolf started it all. Only nowadays such opinions are the establishment, which is why I think its only fitting the Wyrm and the Technocracy should be portrayed as progressives.
But self-awareness is not a strong point for those people.
The /wodg/ threads have been deteriorating rapidly.
So, how about them Pangaeans?
>>46459057
>So you believe anything? I'm actually Dracula, and I'm canceling the WoD RPG and focusing solely on pachinko games.
I'd believe you thought Dracula was somehow reincarnated in you, and I find it as stupid as if you thought your soul was a dragon a wolf or a woman
but fi that was so, wouldn't you be doing something with your life?
>>46459021
See >>46459057
WoD, for all its edginess, has always been...well, actually at the edge. It pushed a lot of boundaries back then, and you didn't notice because they weren't your boundaries. And now that they are it's suddenly a problem.
In the context of Beast, specifically, the fact that it has a lot of trans-pandering and potential SJW stuff isn't the problem. The probem is that it lacks any kind of introspection or self-awareness, so when it presents killing bullies as the only proper course of action and then agrees with itself, there's obvious dissonance. Obvious to everyone except the guy who wrote it, of course.
Like, holy fuck, oChangeling is about actual factual otherkin. You cannot possibly be this blind, so you must be funposting, right?
>>46459089
I want to help Helios put Father Wolf back together and finally confess his true feelings.
>>46459126
>I want to help Helios put Father Wolf back together and finally confess his true feelings.
>>46459126
>The probem is that it lacks any kind of introspection or self-awareness
Lets not forget that in the old link, the heroes were portrayed as villains despite how the book said the Beast were evil, abusive and destructive. Their actions created heroes but when the heroes lashed out, the heroes were wrong to lash out because...oppression of Beast, or something.
Its like a non-self aware metaphor for when a shitty person on social media throw garbage and is shocked when they get shit flinged back at them and whine about oppression for it.
>>46459037
Everyone is John and John is a Fetch?...I know about people being tomatoes in the mirror, but that is a bit much.
>>46458949
>Why is WoD General so sensitive to the presence of [thing]?
Nerds love being mad more than they actually like the things they're nerds about. Outrage Culture's a hell of a drug.
I don't have any problem with Beast. I just don't acknowledge it and the creatures in it do not exist in the games I run. I'm used to doing this already since I don't use Mage stuff either. I've had nothing but great fun. In fact it's getting to the point where I only get excited about running games that are all micro-templates and major templated creatures are antagonist / NPCs only.
>>46459089
>So, how about them Pangaeans?
I'll never been more interested in Mage / Werewolf crossover since reading The Sundered World.
The settings have so many elements making them both natural allies and enemies, and Werewolf antagonists (Hosts and Idigam) are perfect foils for many mage cabals.
Congratulations Chris and Dave, job well done.
>>46459168
It is possible for both Heroes and Beasts to be incredibly shitty people. That's how I always read it.
>>46459168
Why was Beast even made? There is no demand for this shit. At all.
They could've made a Victorian Age VtR or something instead.
>>46459171
What do you do when you smile in the mirror and your reflection smiles back, but then waves and walks out the door while you're still brushing your teeth?
>>46459145
Helios being jealous that Luna got the knot is 100% canon in my games. The sun has been mad since forever that Father Wolf senpai never noticed him and is just pissed that all his nieces and nephews are not actually his daughters and sons. This is a fact.
>>46459230
I actually like the premise of beast, but the execution leaves so much to be desired. I think both they and heroes can be good antagonists for players using one of the better gamelines.
>>46459258
>Why was Beast even made? There is no demand for this shit. At all.
Matt wanted to make a game where you go around scaring people.
He did an interview with GG a long time before Beast came out (mostly talking about Chill) and said he'd love a game like Assassin, where you just sneak up to people and "get them" but instead of killing them you scare them.
Plus for years people have been wanting a game where you can play a "monster"
>>46459230
Get out of here with your crazy, reasonable options! If your game about the Camarilla politics of Des Moines, Iowa doesn't include notes on the disposition and existence of Merfolk, you are not world building properly!
>>46459230
>CofD without Mages
Is that even possible?
What a sad, sad CofD without the benefit of mage enlightenment.
>>46459258
People were promised crossover support, make your own monster toolkits, and DRAGONS!
>>46459247
Oh I agree and I think the game is better off with this interpretation. But what I initially read was nothing but garbage where the antagonist were simultaneously evil powerful bullies but at the same time pathetic neckbeard. Whatever was more convenient at the time.
If this remind you of anything, congratulation, you are paying attention.
>>46459318
>The sun has been mad since forever that Father Wolf senpai never noticed him and is just pissed that all his nieces and nephews are not actually his daughters and sons. This is a fact.
Except one of the Firstborn (incandescent) might be from Helios.
>>46459126
oChangeling is also one of the least popular games they ever made. I never played it and never met people who wanted to.
Meanwhile nChangeling marks the moment when SJW people invaded in swarms.
Yes, WoD always had some "progressive" stuff. But it was really buried under tons of everything else. And to be honest back then this progressive stuff attracted a lot of girls to WoD.
>>46459343
Sorry, wasn't listening. What did you say?
OP you cunt. Monte Cook's WOD would be rife with contradictions, half-complete mechanics, things which read better than they play and a pile of bullshit, with a hefty helping of the author's personal beliefs.
Okay, wait, never mind. The authors are all Monte Cook in disguise.
>>46459258
They've already done Victorian vampire and they'd already done alt-history VtR far more successfully by then with both RfR and New Wave Requiem.
The thing about Beast is that it was a concept that Matt must have pushed really fucking hard for. I remember before it was announced way back in a pitch season of long ago Rich said "We're going to try something pretty revolutionary here.." and then it turned out to be Beast. I was at the GenCon where they actually announced the game, me and my friends had literally spent the day before playing in Wrecking Crew games and we were eager to see what they'd reveal at the panel. By the time we left we were confused, all we had was some weird Disney analogies and nothing more. The game lacked any kind of interesting hook for me and I never really even followed it until the guy Amy recruited from here leaked the playtest document. I wasn't impressed, and I haven't really felt compelled to give the game another chance.
I think, really, all the things I'd have wanted out of a game called 'Beast' I'm getting from what Dave's said about Deviant. The idea of being corrupted by some outside force, seeking revenge against the person or persons responsible, trying to live your life while hiding the body horror you've become. That I can get behind as a concept.
>>46459395
>things which read better than they play and a pile of bullshit, with a hefty helping of the author's personal beliefs.
White Wolf, everyone!
>>46459395
You don't know? That's a real book.
>>46459331
>Is that even possible?
Why would it not be?
>>46459434
...I didn't. I assumed someone told him they'd publish Numenera if he stopped playing with other lines. Imma going to go hang myself.
Nothing in WoD caters to my deep desire, but that is okay, because it does not fit with WoD's aesthetic.
>>46459410
>the great and powerful Dave releases 6 lines about a game and the conga line to suck his off is already a mile long
Beginning to suspect this fetish isn't as ironic as i'd hoped
>>46459337
We still got a make-a-monster toolkit, they just put it into the corebook instead. Though, really, if you want to be anal about it then it's really just a more polished version of the rules laid out in Mortal Remains.
>>46459168
It's been said to death, but the problem with Beast's fluff is that it's like three or four metaphors messily put together. Beasts are the monsters of old, the marginalized, the outsider, AND the tight-knit insider all at once. It's possible to have all these work together, it's just that in this case, for whatever reason, it didn't.
>>46458034
was infernals the one with the grotesque child rape comic?
>>46459434
>>46459461
Its real and I have no idea why it ever was a thing.
>>46459331
Mages as they are now are just shit for powergamers. I have hope 2ed will fix this.
>>46459461
It's basically D&D set in psuedo-WoD
None of the splats are actually how they work in WoD; all some variety of alien bullshit fuckery
It's pretty dumb
>>46459461
It's post-apocalyptic WoD, and everyone is demons.
Run in D20 system.
>>46459509
Ha-ha-ha.
>>46459456
Because Mages know and are the best at everything. Their powers are transcendent and their cosmology encircles all the others, permeating even to the underworld, the shadow ad all other mystical realms where other templates make their niche. How could you have a game without them
>>46459461
It was bad, but not terrible. A lot of people own the book but less than a third of them I'll wager have ever run a game of it. Much like GURPS Vampire, it scratches an itch and it makes a certain niche of gamers feel better, but it's just not meant for a real table to play.
>>46459503
Maybe. They had an infernal womb to hold the exaltations who was a bloated 9 year old who was constantly 'serviced' by the Yozi's slaves.
>>46459529
Mages are all deluded people who force their delusions into reality.We Unknown Armies now.
>>46459529
I don't know about the other guy, but I run most of my games without introducing crossover, even as antagonists or one offs. I didn't realize so many people tried to run nWoD games where every splat guest starred. I'd think that'd drive me fucking nuts as an ST, especially if the PCs were more than one splat.
>>46459559
That's always been Old Mage. Its how you FEEL reality should work.
>>46459362
I've been posting this particular bit of fan fiction for a long, long time, I'm glad they finally stole it. I'll have to pick up Dark Eras.
>>46459364
And nChangeling was wildly popular, at least partially because it appealed to the 00s equivalent to the 90s teenage goth audience, and yes that included spooky SJW boogeymen. WtA was about militant, radicalized ecoterrorists who had sex with actual animals at it's worst, I really don't think nWoD's admittedly spotty, often ham-fisted appeal to trans issues is that big of a deal. Certainly not worse than the shit WW has written in the past, just worse to you.
>>46459509
It won't. Mages will always be the most flexible and that's okay. If you don't want to play a high power game, just don't play Mage.
>>46459503
Yes.
The text block is covering an image of that little girl in the last panel bloated and covered in holes
Objectively the worst comic in 2e.
>>46459529
Yeah, how could you have a game without the horrible mary sues that are the best at everything?
>>46459559
That's just Ascension.
>>46459570
So you admit that you'e a crappy ST because you dont let your players play Mages, just because they're the objectively best splat and you're not up to the task of running them?
Wow, didn't think guys like you still existed
>>46459529
They do show up, but only to go 'Psshh, nothin personnel kid" and then wipe the party.
>>46459570
>I didn't realize so many people tried to run nWoD games where every splat guest starred.
I never, ever saw a good game with a bunch of splats.
It turns into D&D.
>>46458982
also because when writing about children, it's best not to refer to them as "lolis" and out oneself as a pedophile.
>>46459601
I love you mage shitposter.
ANd not just because you're right. The writers should be asked what their favourite splat is, then bitchslapped until they stop trying to write for it.
>>46459576
Most flexible shouldn't equal best at everything.
>>46458582
DID SOMEONE SAY GAY WEREWOLVES
>>46459601
Yes, I admit it. I'm a horrible bastard who doesn't allow Mage at my table out of sheer jealousy. I'm thankful my troupe are able to debase themselves by playing other lesser gamelines to placate me.
>>46459642
And yet it does
>>46459601
Are you retarded? If one splat is objectively the best it means it's shit and people who made it are idiots who can't into balance
>>46459682
>blaspheming His Holiness Sir DaveB McPower-Gamer
You're about to start a riot lad
>>46459655
YES THEY DID
>>46459712
DaveB didn't make Mage 1st edition.
>>46459577
Has anyone involved in it ever explained or apologized for why such an affront was allowed to exist?
Are Idigam Pangaeans?
>>46459731
AROOOOOUUSSSEEEDDD
>>46459754
>>46459744
No, but if he did from his comments it'd be even more obscene!
>>46459744
>Has anyone involved in it ever explained or apologized for why such an affront was allowed to exist?
Total stonewall, pretend it doesn't exist and hope everyone will forget.
>>46459747
No, they might be connected though.
>>46459773
NOT DOWN FOR JUST GAY WEREWOLVES?
LETS BRING GAY MAGES INTO THE EQUATION. GAGES.
>>46459798
SO MANY GAY WEREWOLVES
SO MUCH CAPSLOCK
SO MANY CHRONICLES OF UTTER FAGNESS
>>46459570
I do crossover very, very sparingly and only ever with NPCs as other splats, and I don't tend to use the actual rules from their book. For instance, I'm introducing a minor mage antagonist into this werewolf campaign. He's ostensibly a Thrysus but I'm just throwing some dread powers to him & using some of the stuff from Witchfinders, not making an entire mage from Awakening.
>>46459819
CAPS LOCK
GAY WOLFBLOODS JUST IN CASE YOU ARENT READY FOR THE FULL FUR
>>46459854
STAY IN SCHOOL
GAY WEREWOLVES FOR YOU SO STUDY HARD AND GET HARD
I know someone intimately who designs covers for these romance books. Apparently shifter porn is a big seller, though I wish there more clever pun titles.
>>46459872
There. All done. better late than never.
>>46459655
Amazon is totally glutted with these gay werewolf ebooks, but I've been down that road. They are not to be trusted.
>>46459642
When the premise of the splat is that eventually they can ascend to near god-hood, it's kind of inherent to the concept that they will outscale other things.
Although I believe Imperial Mysteries was a fantastic and fun book, I sometimes regret it was ever published or that other lines didn't have an equivalent ultra-splat.
Despite the fact that archmages were supposed to be VERY rare and explicitly on an insanely high power tier with other god-like beings, definitely above all splats including regular mages, it engendered and aggravated the resentment and envy many players already felt about run of the mill mages.
The stupid white room comparisons by some people that unreasonably assumed normal mages were proficient in nearly every Arcana also didn't help matters.
>>46459798
>GAY MAGES
You forget that with gay MagesMpregis a thing...no, really, all you need is a Life spell for the correct body mod, though you have to take into account that YY embryos won't develop into anything...and I hate myself for reading a fanfic that brought that detail up.
>>46459841
And that's how it should be. It's one of the things oWoD did so much better.
>>46459910
Humans can be XYY. Supermales. Actually a thing. Google.
>>46459655
>>46459731
>>46459754
>>46459773
>>46459798
>>46459819
>>46459854
>>46459872
Fuck, this is hilarious. They need to be used in a Werewolf The Apocalypse game. Dunno how, but this shit must clearly be corruption.
>>46459901
That's probably the ugliest kind of underwear ever produced.
I'd say it ruined the entire picture, but the backwards cap already did that.
>>46459932
Are you some kind of faggot to be making fashion judgements?
>>46459747
>Are Idigam Pangaeans?
No, unless you want them to be in your chronicle.
>>46459570
In our crew, usually the PCs are a single splat, but the GM is not afraid to throw shit at us from other game lines. Sure, we're all Vampires, but the True Fey and Idigam are major threats in our city besides the usual political machinations.
>>46459897
Please keep going, this is so much better than the fucking mage and sjw and gender and whatnot arguments
>>46459901
>it's kind of inherent to the concept that they will outscale other things
Not really when you have things like elder vampires in the setting.
And old mage wasn't like that at all unless you had a shitty GM who ignored how hard Paradox can fuck you up. In new Mage paradox is a joke. New Mage is simply horribly designed.
>>46459972
...Yes?
>>46459972
>Are you some kind of faggot
I hope that's a rhetorical question, or your gaydar really needs re-calibration.
>>46459926
Black Spiral Dancers. That's all.
So I got a copy of the new Chronicles of Darkness core book. What books are compatible with it? I'm new to CoD/nWoD.
>>46459972
Next you will tell me you don't know what a crinoline is.
>>46460025
Vampire, Werewolf, Beast, Demon.
Some of the old books are wonky, but can work.
>>46459997
No faggots allowed on 4chan. Back to tumblr/reddit with you
>>46459987
Sorry, I never really populated the folder with anything beyond emergency images in case someone brought up gay werewolves. All I have.
>>46459539
I hoinestly unironically liked it and run a couple of games. It's a (relatively) novel take on supernaturals in a post-apocalyptic setting, and thanks to being a self-cointained book, it avoids a lot of the classic d20 pitfalls.
Of course, it has absolutely nothing to do with World of Darkness except a handful of names thrown around for good measure.
>>46459910
It's also a thing with werewolf and vampire. I suspect that mpreg will soon be core book material for every updated gameline because someone at OP has a fetish.
>>46459923
I know a guy with this, generally totally normal, but the double Y means higher risk of certain learning disorders (and of colorblindness, I'd assume).
>>46459932
Sorry, I didn't mean to displease you, anon, please forgive me.
>>46459989
I don't know enough about oMage to argue that, so I'll take your word for it. nMage paradox is definitely a joke, especially when you compare it to the real splat drawbacks like disquiet.
>>46459923
I did at one point, but I'm not talking about XYY, I'm talking about YY. If you have two male Mages who somehow manage to conceive a child through rogering each other, there's a 25% chance the kid will be stillborn unless one of them is an Acanthus.
>>46460025
>new Chronicles of Darkness core book. What books are compatible with it? I'm new to CoD/nWoD
Demon
Beast
Vampire 2e
Werewolf 2e
as well as the soon(tm) to be released Mage 2e, Promethean 2e and Changeling 2e.
>>46459989
Elder vampires are basically deus ex machina. There's no rules for developing shit like zagreus. Teh closest I've seen are rules for True Fae storytelling, and even that's really only affecting other fae. Imperium Rites sort of shit all over it.
>>46460067
>because someone at OP has a fetish.
DAMMIT DAVE!
>>46460067
>nMage paradox is definitely a joke
There is hope for 2nd ed there, though.
>>46460166
The best part the paradox revisions in Mage 2e was the total elimination of vulgar vs. covert. Paradox is now more biting, but risking it is now largely the choice of the individual mage based knowledge of the Arcana and intent rather then nebulous rules of the universe that in 1e (and classic Mage) players often spent more time arguing about than playing the game.
