What are /tg/'s thoughts about counterfeit MTG cards?
A necessary evil in Legacy and Vintage.
As far as modern staples go, just don't trade or sell them to people that are under the impression they are real. Again, almost a necessary evil in a format where decks can cost over $2000. I can't wait for the shitstorm that happens when someone on the top tables of a GP is busted with a good fake though. Might finally make WOTC review their reprint standpoint.
>>48236430
Honestly, as much as I think I would be, I'm not opposed to it. With as much as the second hand stores price gouge cards, I could give less of a shit. Their practices are predatory. You can call it capitalism, but I just call them assholes.
As for your picture, the font is obviously fucked up on the right card, and would stand out to anybody who has played the game for any significant amount of time.
>>48236430
Youre shit for selling proxies, but the proxy problem is entirely WOTC's fault. Cards shouldnt cost more than 100 dollars unless theyre collectable variants like full arts, foils, 1st editions, ect. I feel like they dont reprint needed reprints because it would make it more appearent how broken those cards are and would make the reprints pointless because then it results in a ban.
>>48236430
One of the LGSs I visit has a proxy legacy night and it's perfect. I only have one proxy in my D&T list (because fuck heads won't trade away any of their collection, but that's a different story) and some of the players have full proxied decks. So long as you are NOT trying to scam people out of money or trade them off as real, who cares?
It's also nice since it allows people to figure out what deck they want to really build (if they ever choose to have a deck for a more sanctioned event).
Basically, use proxies to play but not to scam.
It's the free market's way of solving the reserved list problem. Over regulation always leads to free market innovation.
>>48236430
I honestly don't give a shit. However I'd never buy them. Not for any moral reason. I'm just super paranoid I'd get caught
>>48236430
It keeps dying formats alive much longer than a jew runned game should.
I make and sell custom cards. Everyone is OK with it as long as they don't try to sell them as real cards. Most of my customers actually play modern.
A pretty good example of why the CCG system is fucking stupid.
Magic should just move to LCG format and solve this stupid bullshit.
>>48236998
How does "regulation" enter into this discussion?
The reserve list is a market force, Wizards is afraid of reducing demand for their game by devaluing the collections of some players
>>48236430
Any good tips on how to get high quality fakes?
I know anout black lotus on Alibaba, but the quality of those seems to be "meh" (especially the double black lining...)
I have also tried to contact Villa Theng, but so far he didn't answer.
>>48238229
Zheng
The freemarket, it just wrks.
>>48238229
Black lotus is the original guy and I am 100% sure he is Delson who was one of the main starters of making fake cards. BL is also cheapest so go figure who makes the cards.
>>48236430
It fucks with fake economy. I approve.
>>48236430
Honestly who cares? As long as you are not selling the fakes I am ok with it. I am pretty sure people have use fakes at legacy events against me but I didn't give 2 fucks since I get nothing by reporting them. The same poeple who would beat me with fakes would do it the same as if their cards were real.
>>48236430
DON'T sell them as real. If you use them to play one of the overpriced bullshit formats (= currently every format that exists), that's fine by me. That's WotC's own fault for being excessively greedy. But do not rip off your fellow player. Rip off WotC only.
>>48238229
You have to remember the time zone difference, the guy(s) can't be awake 24/7. Guys at /r/bootlegmtg insist that Black Lotus and Villa sell the same stock, can't comment myself.
magic cards are like stamps:beautiful pieces of papaer you can collect or use, whatever you prefer.
its a dickmove to sell a fake to a collector, but noone should get upset about you using a fake yourself.
>>48238229
Buy from VZ
He's very good, and Ive bought a lot of cards from him
No complaints about the cards whatsoever
>>48236505
>A necessary evil in Legacy and Vintage.
being poor must suck.
I dislike people using them even in casual, because to me it screams "I feel entitled to these cards but refuse to pay for them", which is not an attitude that's good for a game's health.
>>48240016
>Paying hundreds of dollars for a piece of cardboard that could lose it's value at any second
You're a high roller I see
>>48240135
Okay friendo
>>48240165
>a expensive hobby/pastime is a right, not a privilege. i shouldn't have to pay for anything.
i can smell the entitlement from over here.
>>48240275
Random passer by clicking through the catalog here:
Your hobby is represented on little squares of cardboard. If you aren't just printing them off yourself from Google on cheap card, you're paying too much to play your hobby.
>>48240275
Money isn't an entitlement either, but apparently you are doing a good job spending your daddy's money.
>>48238146
>more players playing your game
>lowering the demand
logic conclusion right there, I totally wonder why the most played formats are draft,sealed and casual.
I have no problem with proxying, but there is no moral reason you need fakes that can pass for real cards.
>>48236430
I think everyone should use those for expensive lands, you can't play competitive legacy decks without having lands that cost 100€/copy and fuck that honestly.
>>48240461
This right here. The difference between proxy and counterfeit is that you're intending to use one in sanctioned events. Wanting a cheap way to play your hobby is one thing, wanting a way to willfully undermine their business strategy is another.
>>48240275
>I pay outrageous amounts of money on a practically useless product on a completely overblown market run by collectors and speculators who don't even play the game and could ruin the entire game if they get too greedy (which is only a matter of time).
Just saiyan
>>48240526
business strategy? How does WOTC loses sales from using counterfeit cards of the reserved list?
To my understaing WOTC is done selling said cards forever.
>>48240576
understanding*
>>48240561
Your free to not fucking play. I can't think of any other competitive scene where people feel that they are entitled to compete
>>48240601
Because in all other competitive scenes people are FREE to compete as long as they have the skills.
>>48240632
>when you show up to a Warhammer tournament people let you pick and use any mini for free
>when you go to compete at a NASCAR race you just rent a car for free from a garage
>Battlebots fully funds the teams to manufacture and repair their bots
Holy shit you are a retard
>>48240632
no tho
>>48240135
As opposed to the makers of the game printing ungodly amounts of shit, making every playable card a rare or mythic and not reprinting nowhere near the amount of cards necessary so the game turns into pay to win, all of which is fantastic for the game's health. Go suck a dick.
If WotC would print enough cards to cover the demand, there wouldn't be a market for counterfeits.
>>48240652
Not the Other Guy, but in most of those cases, the high entry point for those competitions is justified. NASCAR cars require a lot of development and expensive materials. In the case of mtg, the high entry point is artificial. I'm not advocating for flooding the market with reprints of high value cards, but there is no need for $30 standard and $100 modern cards.
>>48238146
These collector's that would get assblasted probably don't even play the game anymore. I'd love to pull my underground seas out of storage and use them in a deck, but I can't afford the cards i'd need to justify it.
Why not just have a print on demand service for legacy cards? Just price it at some ridiculously high price point that more than covers the costs of printing and shipping, but which is still massively lower than the plain idiotic costs good old cards go for.
>>48240652
>comparing stuff made of expensive materials with 0,5 cent printed cards
based retard
Where do I even get proxies, or make them? I want to use some to play with in my playgroup, not to sell or anything.
>>48240920
Because they're either still working under the romantic idea of "collecting being something you work hard at" or, more likely, StarCityGames and other Jews own a large portion of their stock.
>>48240998
>SCG having a controlling interest in Hasbro
Wow. Can you count to potato for me?
>>48241067
I don't know; can you read a complete sentence?
>>48240920
For the past few years, Hasbro has been focused on expanding the base of new players and having them play standard. That is why the game has been dumbed down. This also means that they want to reduce Legacy and Vintage to a point where they still nominally exist, but only as a sort of old fogeys club. Kinda like Ford being proud that there are people out there that love their 65 Mustang, while at the same time, they want you to buy a Focus.
>>48241126
Are you seriously suggesting SCG owns a large portion of Hasbro, a company worth $7.2 billion?
WotC does reprint cards because it is in their best interest, given their business model.
>>48240399
>>48240378
>>48240561
>i am so pathetic i can't even get a job at mcdonalds
>>48236878
A card costing more than 10 bucks is a scam. it cost 0,3 dollars to produce
>>48240016
Throwing money at jews is a rich people hobby? since when rich people is so stupid
>>48236430
Chinamen are fighting the good fight, but only for their own good.
>>48241227
>Are you seriously suggesting SCG owns a large portion of Hasbro, a company worth $7.2 billion?
Like I said, you're an illiterate fuck. Look at the word immediately after SCG. We call that an "and".
To top off your special brand of autism, you also don't realize that even if they don't own your stock, you'll obviously cater to speculators if they are a large segment of your customer base.
>>48241227
>>48241342
To further add, you're absolutely retarded to compare a subdivision of Hasbro to Hasbro itself.
>>48241342
Nice backtracking, there, tardis. Let me rewrite what you wrote.
>StarCityGames and other Jews own a large portion of their stock.
Once again, where is your source on that? Just admit you have no fucking clue what you are talking about and go back to sticking a finger in your ass.
>>48241258
I own my workplace and you know how I know daddy pays your shit?
because you wouldn't spend 150€+ on a single piece of carboard had you worked for that money.
>>48241363
>To further add, you're absolutely retarded to compare a subdivision of Hasbro to Hasbro itself.
Oh, really? How did SCG and these imaginary Jews buy stocks specifically for WotC? Keep talking, you are sounding smarter by the minute.
>>48241320
>live in capitalist society
>complain about having to pay for shit
maybe you should go back to poland
>>48241440
your business must suck if you can't afford anything
in honor of this thread I will tip an extra 10% the next time I got to a diner, you guys must really need that money bad.
>>48241555
>Lives in a capitalist society
>complains on people selling and buying the same shit but for far less money
Go masturbate on your tarmogoyfs
>>48241577
My business does well because I know what is worth investing in, paying that much money for carboard that cost 0,5 cents to produce and holds no value is always a bad investement, but keep sucking your daddy's cock senpai.
>>48241712
>my business does well
>still can't afford to buy cards
>>48241440
I make that much money in less than half a day. If I felt it was worth the money I would drop $150 on a card. Do you have some jew mentality that you're not allowed to spend more than a certain amount of money for certain things? Or are you going to imply that goods have no value beyond the cost of their base materials?
>>48241712
You parents apprantly thought you were worth less than the cost of a condom. You're doing a good job proving them right
>>48241782
Some goods do and some don't has seen previously in this one the value can be gone as soon as small or big changes happen, small changes include meta changes, big ones include bans.
It's not worth spending that much on this, and by the way, you make that much in a day becauase you probably live in a region or country where the quality of life is much higher, but most of the world doesn't make 150€ of PROFIT in half a day, profit being the keyword.
So long as Legacy and Vintage are Wizards walled garden of unreprintable cards then proxies will happen. Unless you're part of the old guard of magic who has played since antiquity breaking into older formats is beyond backbreaking, so proxies are needed to keep those formats from being completely dead.
Legacy and Vintage are dying formats and so it will solve itself eventually anyways. One day the prices will crash and neckbeards will lose tens of thousands in imaginary cardboard monopoly money.
>>48241767
>>48241807
stay mad kids, you have to finish school first before you can talk to the big boys.
>>48241782
Are you impliying that any good have more value than the cost of their base materials? confirmed for rich parents and retarded
>>48241782
Do you have some kind of Jew mentality where you actually think pieces of cardboard costing $150 is acceptable?
>>48241403
Different guy here. Do you know the difference between presenting something as fact and speculation?
>buy proxies instead of the real things
>can afford to play 10x the amount of decks I'd have otherwise
>???
>profit
As long as you're not trading or selling them off as the real thing like a douchebag then proxies are fine.
>>48241834
I'm sorry you can't afford to play MtG. I completely agree that it costs too much that still doesn't justify your poorfag tears. If you don't even make $150 a day maybe you should not waste time on 4chan and improve yourself so you can get a better job
ITT: Morans with disposable income confuse the Art Market for mass-printed sheets of medium grade card stock featuring unfortunate amateur fantasy illustrations.
Might as well invest in tulip bulbs.
>>48241857
>Are you impliying that any good have more value than the cost of their base materials?
I'd be hard pressed to think of the exceptions. Some books are not worth the paper they are printed on, sure. And there's question of things that lose value with time. And various technicalities just as "non-winning lottery tickets". But generally speaking any crafted product should be worth more than the cost of the base material.
>>48241857
>>48241868
Cars definately don't cost tens of thousands of dollars to manufacture. What country do you live in where people sell products at zero profit?
>>48241883
Maybe, just maybe, you should pump your thousands into investments instead of MtG cards?
>>48241881
I always wondered what would happen if the second hand market didn't exist and the selling of singles would be 100% controlled by WOTC while still selling packs for drafting and sealed.
>>48241855
>claims to be a big boy
>his business is so terrible he can't even afford card games
>>48241921
Its a pretty big stretch to assume that just because I'm willing to spend $150 on a card I have thousands of dollars lying around. You could easily top that by going to a couple bars on a Friday night
>>48241903
at least you can use tulip bulbs to grow flowers
>>48241883
Considering the way you talk, I hope you won't end up crying over a stash of worthless paper once your parents won't give you money anymore and you'll end up homeless.
>>48241925
It would be absolute shit and destroy the whole game.
>>48241956
You would have to buy more than 40 big-sized beers to top that, you either still live with your parents or have no idea of what you are talking about.
>>48241974
Nice projecting. I buy magic cards because i enjoy playing with them. If WotC dissolved tomorrow and all my cards were worthless it would be no skin off my nose. Does it upset you that much that people spend more money than you?
>>48241997
I guess you've never been to the city.
>>48242023
he's american.
he gets utterly tanked on a single budd lite.
>>48242023
I live in a city that's formally considered a metropolis senpai, like I said you shelted retards don't consider the fact that USA isn't the only country in existence and New York isn't the only city on the planet, think of this, in eastern europe a playset of FoW costs someone almost their whole pay, in france/italy/germany it costs someone between half to 3/5 of an average pay so and so forth, this whole "deal" hurts WOTC extremely as they eventually lose players because the game is unsubstanable, they don't gain new ones outside of casual formats because it's too expensive for the average pay of people on most of the planet.
Get a dose of reality mate.
>>48242122
>senpai
>>48242146
>being new
>>48242181
>being too much of a jew to buy cards
>>48242122
>in eastern europe a playset of FoW costs someone almost their whole pay
Slav here, no it doesn't, unless you're talking the minimum wage.
And people stuck doing minimum wage jobs past highschool don't deserve nice things anyway.
>>48242122
A full playset of FoW in Italy costs around 200 euros, which is around a fourth to a sixth of an average monthly paycheck, poorfag
>>48240632
All the poorfag competitive scenes.
>poker
>golf
>equitation
>>48241857
>guys, a cut diamond and a rough diamond have the same value!!
>>48241320
Most products cost many times less to produce than they sell for, its called capitalism and cost of labor.
>>48238122
Surprising the Leave was was as small as it was honestly.
>>48238229
Zhang fakes are terrible. Bought some of them early this year and they are atrociously easy to identify as fake.
All these people so proud of buying real cards, i have sold fakes as reals in lot of stores and events, never get caught. it does not matter that they don't look like the real ones, cuz people don't even look at them.
>>48241837
>One day the prices will crash
I'm not so sure. Even if wotc decides to stop supporting the formats altogether, I think there will always be a remnant of players. What happens when these players also disappear? Only the collectors will be left, and those don't go away as easily. I think these cards never crash. But, who knows?
ITT:
>"""rich""" fags make fun of people not willing to spend two grand on a magic cards
>proletariat complain about predatory pricing as a barrier to competative play
>"""rich""" fags continue to make fun of those who don't have the will to spend over 2k on a trading card game
Marx was right
ITT: post-purchase rationalization
>>48242470
>"""rich""" (parents)
>>48242470
>Being this buttblasted you aren't a part of the glorious bourgeoisie.
>>48236430
Power to the people, no more private ownership (of the means of production)!
All praise the robotic overlords instead!
>>48236430
Literally nothing wrong with them. I can certainly afford any format, but when I can save money only a fool would pass up the opportunity.
My main gripe is that some of them just have stupid mistakes. While the printing quality and carboard is fine, some like a Mythic Rare Goblin Guide are a result of lack of care. They have been improving so I imagine things can only get better. Also selling them to people while claiming that they are real is a really low move. Thankfully the chinamen are upfront about that.
I have no objections with them. This game is too expensive and only newfags and Modernfags try to defend it.
Once upon a time, people were in an uproar about Walletslayer Angel. The thought of a standard card costing more than $40 was absurd.
The good ol' Jace the Wallet Sculptor came along and showed us that cards could be $90, which was also met with a large outcry.
Even Legacy was cheaper. Gaea's Cradle was a double digit price tag. Dual lands ranged from $40-$70. Goyf was $50 and that was seen as overpriced. Force of Will was $70. Damnation was $20.
But now the game has been hijacked by profiteers and the people who suck them off. I miss being able to talk about the game without the conversation being dominated by finance. I miss being able to play Legacy. I just want the game to come back.
>>48242542
Each new batch is an improvement on the last. Some cards - Revised duals, for example - are getting really, really good. It is next to impossible to detect them while sleeved and from across the table. In fact, people are currently playing them competitively and you don't hear a lot of them getting caught. Fakes never resist a close inspection, but if you avoid the glaringly obvious mistakes and act normal, they are really hard to spot. At this rate, we are going to need a loupe to tell them apart within a year.
>>48242641
>I just want the game to come back.
The game is back! Why don't you try Standard! It is so much fun! Remember playing Shivan Dragon and Serra Angel? That is what Standard is all about! Big creatures! Swinging for the fences! Why not try Limited? It is even swingier! Just trust me, sell your duals, and buy yourself a couple boxes of Eldritch Moon. You won't regret it.
>>48242470
It's just proof that Magic is pay-to-win and not a real strategy game.
>>48242641
You're waiting on reprints then, something wotc is a total nigger jew about because theyre greedy as fuck (jew) and ruining the game (nigger) which only thing they have going for them because magic is killing it profit wise for hasbro
>>48242745
>Limited
I know you're being sarcastic, but this. Limited, by definition, is objectively more skill-based than Constructed, per se, since there's no pay-to-win element.
>>48242789
Unless competitive Standard decks were $50 a piece. As they should be.
>>48242509
>continues to deride the ones who fuel WotC by playing limited
>>48236430
Artificial scarcity is a statist monopoly and should be smashed.
>>48242470
Quit while your behind bud. You've been so BTFO it would qualify as a war crime
>>48240016
>Rich
>Magic
>Laughing boat owners.jpg
Magic is how poorfags show off, like macshit.
>>48241868
Goy mentality.
Rich people and jews are rich because they don't waste money and buy useful shit that mantains value globally.
A boat is expensive here and in shanghai.
A black lotus is expensive here but won't get you shit anywhere else.
>>48241979
Why?
>>48242487
Seriously
>>48242470
>"""rich""" fags make fun of people not stupid enough to spend two grand on a magic cards
>proletariat complain about predatory pricing as a barrier to competative play
>Free market sets in with proxies
>(((rich))) fags continue to make fun of those who don't have the will to spend over 2k on a worthless item
REMINDER
THE HAND OF THE FREE MARKET IS GOING TO TAKE CARE OF IT.
>>48243562
because it kills kikes.
>>48242789
> oh you drafted an avacyn/any planeswalker well gg lets go to the next one hope you wont draw it
>skill
>>48242875
>proletariat gain the means to fight back agains the bourgeois
>"""rich""" fags start claiming victory
>>48243688
Planeswalkers aren't even that good in limited, you have to be ahead on creatures or they will just die immediately
If you actually watch competitive limited magic, you'll see that it comes down to who has the most synergistic deck, not who pulled the best single card
That said I do agree that many mythics are a little too strong in limited
>>48242401
>>48239431
>>48242789
>Limited
Literally worst format ever, and you have to pay each time you wanna play, with random shitty cards.
>>48243745
Just fucking lurk, there is an entire leddit about this shit, lazy assfag
>>48242470
>2016
>not being rich
are you american or something?
>>48242439
There are many cases where people sell their families collections for horrendously low price compared to its actual worth.
Then again, the said collection is worth as much as someone is willing to pay. Their value is not concrete.
>>48243729
>proletariat resort to crime and funding terrorism
>still try to claim the moral high ground
>>48243749
Honestly it depends how often you play, it would take quite a few games of legacy or modern to make them more financially efficient than limited
>>48243768
I am lurking every counterfeit thread that pops up on /tg/. All I am is getting mixed opinions. Zheng being chinese doesn't help either. Then again, chinese are known for bootlegging everything.
>>48243822
>MTG Counterfeits
>Terrorism
Are you saying that our money is going to Al qaeda or Isis? murican burguers are really that stupid to think that? sucks to be a burger man
>>48243729
>>48243822
WHAT IS ACTUALLY HAPPENING
>Be kike
>My natural enemy, the freemarket is slain
>I gorge on my kikery
>The free market wakes up, fists my semite hole and makes my fee-fees broken
>C-co-counterf-feits r-r evul!!!!
btw, subhuman commies would love wotc, since the daddy state controls the suply and demand. Communism is DEATH capitalism is RIGHT.
THE FREE MARKET IS FIXING IT SUCKAS.
>>48243976
Your money isn't going to his kike pockets, that's terrorism.
Also Zhang is a prominent dredge player.
>mfw the chinks assassinate trump and take over america
>mfw they were funded by poor americans buying fake cards
>>48242745
I love this meme to death anon please post more.
>>48236430
My only opinion on them is that they've caused some hilarious situations in the past, like so: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/29758161/
>>48244277
MTGLion, this is the cancer that is killing magic
>>48243845
I'm going to buy a lot in the next two weeks and then when I get them maybe 2-4 weeks later I'll make a thread about it. If you want to wait a month to see my pics go ahead, Zheng's not going anywhere while there's money to be made.
>>48244487
In about a month I might have enough money to buy from zheng.
It's a date, then.
>>48244487
>>48244617
>>48243845
Zheng gets a new batch each 3/4 months approx. he sells same set that black lotus on ali. look the videos on youtube. he get even baby jace, but without holofoil stamp. i wanna know how good is that jace, so i can get grixis control in modern
>>48243749
I mean, compared to kitchen table yeah its more expensive, but there are rarely free magic tournaments.
Does $15 a week take too big a bite out of your allowance?
>>48245119
I pay like 2 dollars for weekly modern event with booster prices. paying 15$ for a shitty format is no for me. and with the chinamen proxies, the price of my deck was not so high (infect)
>>48240016
>paying that much for pieces of cardboard
Poker card deck sure is way cheaper.
>>48245192
poker isn't magic though.
>>48241555
>live in capitalist society
>complain about the free market meeting the demands of the consumers by providing them with cheaper alternatives
>>48245692
The moment I will be able to invoke magical powers, then I will consider price of the cards fair.
I've been playing Standard for years and want to get into older formats, specifically Legacy. I can afford most of the cards for the deck I want, but thr dual lands are ridiculous. Are you allowed to use fakes in tournament if you declare them as such, because I'm not shelling out $1000 dollars on 4 cards in my current financial position.
>>48246197
obviously not
just accept the truth that legacy is an unapproachable format and leaving it be will speed it's painfully dragged out death, resulting in wizards finally either fixing the problem or offering another alternative.
>>48246197
>Are you allowed to use fakes in tournament
are you allowed to buy real things with monopoly money?
SOME events allow for a certain number of proxies, but it depends on the event and the organisers.
>>48246233
>resulting in wizards finally either fixing the problem (what won't happen) or doing nothing
Fixed that for you
>>48246197
Just use them doublesleeved and don't say anything to anyone
>>48236430
I'm good with it.
I actually prefer to play with proxies, but the proxies really need to look like real cards (and handle like cards, and be sleeved) so you can recognize the card quickly, and read the rules text.
Used to have a proxy league before I moved. I liked giving each of my decks a consistent look (all cards have the same borders, etc). Custom full art lands we also fun.
As was having full art legendaries.
Any deck runs you like, $20 plus sleeves. We would have other restrictions on deck building instead of whoever spends the most. Decks had a max average card price, and then we had a banlist to match.
Also had some custom format things, like a deck of adventurers and a marketplace deck which you could hire creatures and buy equipment/consumables/auras from, using existing cards, altered to have colorless activation costs and stuff.
Bonus points if your proxy has the current gatherer text instead of whatever was on the initial print run.
Good times.
At some point (when I get a new MTG group in my current city) I'm going to print out my list and then I'll have a 10 man Ravnica + Conspiracy cube, that doubles as a danger room deck if we're too pressed for time to do a draft.
Got a custom Ravnica card back I designed in Photoshop, and I'm going to put them in clear sleeves.
>>48240981
>Fakes
Order them by the box from China
>Proxies
Find/make high res images and print them yourself using 110lb cardstock and a decent color laser printer, or find a print shop not too stuck up to do it for you.
>>48236430
totally fine with proxies if the guy actually knows the card ,it's rulings and was going to buy it eventually anyway.
then again I'm a EDH player so my opinion isn't shit
>>48246837
>Proxies that don't look like real cards
Jesus, no fucking way.
It's like playing warhammer with a guy who uses blank numbered based instead of minis, and him expecting you to remember what he has down on the board and how it works.
Your proxy should look enough like the card in question that I can (at a glance) tell it's color, and quickly also soon it's pt mana cost and all rules text.
In a mono color deck if you really want shitty looking basic lands fine, but anything with rules text really needs to have the rules on the card.
>>48246957
I meant printing it out on some paper and cutting it out yourself as a minimum.
>>48246493
thx senpai im sorry i made such a glaring error ;)
Im not ok with counterfeit cards, ie people buying from chinaman and selling them as the real thing.
Im perfectly fine with proxies, ie a card that is an obvious alter that is used in place of a regular card
They are really 2 different things one is trying to pass itself off as a jormal card where the other is an obvious fake used to represent a real card
I have about 10 edh decks and im not buying 10 copies of wasteland/crucible/top etc ill buy one copy and use 9 proxies, if someone has a tardattack about it i simply take the real card from whatever deck it is in and replace it but nobody really seems to mind
>>48243514
I actually paid for my boat and commercial fishing license with money from selling a vintage deck.
The "muh proxies are evil" stink is the best that has ever happened to me, as soon as I had no opponents left because Trick Jarret is an asshole-sniffing faggot, I was free.
>>48247138
>I have 10 edh decks
>every one has wasteland/crucible/top
>I still buy an actual copy of the card and swap it out when people complain
what the fuck am I reading
I came into Magic somewhere near the end of Dragon's Maze, and I'm slowly but unceasingly falling out of MtG and into Hearthstone for no reason other than that there is no secondary market in Hearthstone.
I'm no economist, but I feel like this is going to be a serious problem for Wizards if that becomes a pattern among their recent consumer gains.
>>48247446
I buy one copy of format staples and if i use them im multiple decks i use proxies as placeholders because i cant play with more than 1 deck at a time
English r hard
>>48247532
It is a similar pattern with me. The price for a lot of these cards makes not losing a difficult prospect for people who only want to spend so much on entertainment, while Hearthstone seems to be making sure that everything is accesible. I doubt that MTG will be killed off by Hearthstone or something like Netrunner in the near future however, some people just like the feel of gambling.
>>48247549
if you're going to deck swap why proxy?
If you're going to proxy why bother buying the card?
>>48247842
Do you have down syndrome? How are you not understanding this??
>anon owns one wasteland
>anon makes a new edh deck with a wasteland in the list
>anon proceeds to proxy the wasteland because it's in his other edh deck and he doesn't feel like moving it
>anon plays a game of edh against an autistic person like you that freaks out when he plays the proxy
>anon sighs and pulls out his other deck with the real card in it
>anon takes the proxy out of the sleeve and replacing it with the real card
>autismo Maximo is no longer triggered
>deck A now has the proxy and deck B has the real card
>this trend continues with each new deck and is swapped whenever autismosaurous-rex complains
This is not a hard concept, get you head checked out, I'm not even that anon but your stupidity angered me on his behalf
>>48247842
The thread is about fake cards made to be used as a play as the real card
I stated in my opinion that i am against fake cards being used as real cards and that "proxys" are fine to use if they are obviously not trying to pass as the real card
To answer your question again for the 3rd time I still purchase cards for the game because i enjoy playing it, i will make an obvious fake of cards i need for multiple decks that are clearly not intended to be the real card because the people i play with know i own the cards so 99% of the time i just leave the proxy in to save time when im playing multiple games, if in the case someone new to the group or someone complains that its not the real card i can simply take it from the deck its in
Yes i could just write my entire decks in pen on the front of islands but personally i like to own the cards i play with and in this case i will use a proxy in place of one of those cards
Its really not that hard to understand
TL:DR i still dont agree with counterfeit cards but i do agree with proxies
>>48247842
Found the modern player
>>48247080
Oh, okay that's fine then, so long as the rules text is on the card, that works fine. Unless your deck is monocolor, please print it in color though.
>>48236430
Try as I might, I honestly cannot get myself to give a shit.
It used to be that I didn't give a shit at all.
Then my friend who runs the FLGS nearly lost thousands of dollars because his partner accidentally bought forgeries.
He managed to get his money back from the sale, but only just. Thank God. They're a small store that only opened up a few years ago, but it was the first time I'd really considered that this whole Chinaman stuff could actually hurt people that I cared about. So I guess I'm a bit more wary now of people who defend forgeries as perfectly fine things to have.
And please remember: proxies != forgeries.
>>48250101
Yes people selling fakes as real are bad
if the reals didn't cost hundreds and thousands, he would be that afected?
Chinamen sell their cards as proxies, not as real. but if the real is worth a lot of money, other people will not be so kind. the secondary market values had gone so absurd that they allow this type of scam. if duals and rl and all the staples costed 5-10$, these problems would not exist
>>48250101
Yeah, I can understand that.
The people defending forgeries aren't defending douchebags who sell forgeries, they're defending using forgeries so you can play the game in an environment of douchebags who won't allow proxies for format staples.
>>48250101
Forgery = chinaman fakes pretending to be the real thing being sold as such
Proxy = full art borderless\textless brom art from the 80's for your commander printed out and pasted on a magic card
They are not the same at all
>>48250101
IMO, if you are getting into the business of buying and selling cheap card stock for hilariously large sums of money, you owe it to yourself to employ people who can tell legitimate printed card stock from forged card stock.
It's really hard to feel bad for anyone burnt by this game's flim-flammery.
>>48250101
Why bother buying old expensive cards unless you're planning on running hardcore amounts of legacy? Just crack 25%-40% of the boxes you buy for singles to sell for standard/modern. Then make a shitload of money on standard/modern tournaments + limited + snacks/drinks
>>48250584
Did you read my post? The guy runs a store. He buys old cards to resell them to people who want to play Legacy/Vintage.
>>48250607
did you read mine? Legacy cards might might be worth mad dosh for LGSes but truly how easy are they to move? I haven't seen anyone play legacy in like 5+ stores in MA for almost a decade at this point.
>>48236430
How much ARE these proxies anyway? Like how much would ol Villa sell his Duals and P9s and Reserved List shit for?
>>48250672
How the fuck should I know? I don't run a fucking store.
That being said, I have seen the reserved lands he keeps in the case move around a couple of times, so I would guess that every time he moves even one of those they make a substantial profit somehow.
At the very least, they're providing a service by offering them in the first place, which is kind of the point of having an FLGS in the first place in addition to having a place to run/play game, sanctioned or not.
>>48250672
>I haven't seen anyone play legacy in like 5+ stores in MA
This is demonstrably false. New England is the home of Eternal magic. There is a huge community and a lot of stores that run Legacy, and occasionally Vintage events.
>>48240016
Good goy! Remember the six BILLION!
>>48250700
Sorry, meant to say forgeries.
>>48250700
$3, $5 shipping. $55 for any of the 52 card 'sets'.
>>48250672
I just played in a 900 person Legacy tournament in Worcester and roughly half my opponents were local.
>>48236545
Funny enough, in pure capitalism, chinaman reprints is the logical result. It's only by government intervention that its made against 'da rules.
Does the guy that emailed me this still browse here?
>>48242122
>New York isn't the only city on the planet
I buy cards on ebay then once they arrive i report them as fake and get my money back and return chinaman duals to the owner, its been a few years now on multiple accounts and ive almost got full playsets for about $200 in chinaman fakes
ITT: people calling other people jews for buying expensive cards, and people calling other people jews for insisting on buying cheap counterfeits
One thing both sides can agree on: we're all jews
lol
>>48254768
I would be more angry with you, but then again, cardboard shouldn't cost more than $5.
Two things:
>Forgieries are only for asshats. Sure, cardboard is priced highly, but it's priced that way based on aggregate subjective market demand relative to production and utility. In other words, the rarer and more useful a card, the more expensive it is. If you're trying to scam people, you're a horrible person and I wish unending torment on your shriveled soul.
>Proxies are fine. If you're proxying black lotus into every edh deck, you're an asshat. You can only proxy something if: a) You own the card, or b) You want the card and would acquire it given the opportunity. Proxy all the cheap cards you'd like, because who cares about master of waves. If you're proxying imperial seal, you also deserve unending torment.
>>48257685
>the rarer and more useful a card, the more expensive it is
Gray Merchant is a 5 cent card. It only costs 5 cents to make
Sylvan Library is $16 card that costed 5 cents to make
How do you justify Wizards not reprinting where the demand is, guaranteeing a shortness in stock which helps no one
>>48240652
>his only argument is comparing cardboard to machinery and models
hurr durr
>>48241258
>>48241577
i hope you're only pretending to be retarded
what's up with the meme that if you don't want to spend money on superfluously expensive things that you're too poor to do it
would you think somebody with the money and resources of alan sugar or bill gates would be poorer than a poo in loo just because they wouldn't want to buy something artificially inflated in price like diamonds? of course not, that's retarded
why is it suddenly different when you don't want to fork out £100+ for a single piece of cardboard that's been arbitrarily made rare so as not to piss off somebody that doesn't actually use that £100+ cardboard?
no wonder you're shitposting about it on a mongolian throat-singing imageboard if that's literally all you do with your money
>>48257685
>but it's priced that way based on aggregate subjective market demand
If it's subjective, then i don0t see why i have to suffer your stupid subjective standard of prices
Also, if you like the capistalist market model of pure supply and demand driving the prices on the market, then why do you feel bad chinamen are doing profit of suppliying a high demand at a lower price? is totally the spirit of capitalism at his finest and purest and waifuable form
>>48257734
You missed the point. I said nothing about wizards as an entity. They're bound to the secondary market. Bitch at resalers, not wizards. Wizards is just trying to keep their best customers happy.
>>48259294
Capitalism is a bitch who're goddess. Only an idiot would willingly praise that which enslaves and dooms us all. I respect the aura of authenticity, in the Walter Benjamin sense. Forgery is morally corrupt and that's all there is to it.
>>48259384
Ethics and morality should not be applied to business
>>48259482
>Ethics and morality should ESPECIALLY be applied to business.
Fixed that for you. If people are not capable of doing so by their own volition regulations should be put in place.
>>48236430
As long as you dont say they are legit an dont try to sell them without saying they are fakes I 100% support them.
>>48236430
Wasy wins.
I believe they should be completely legal in all formats. Why the fuck should it be required that you have a legit copy when there are cards out there they will never reprint that are absolutely necessary for some decks to function.
Either print all cards until everything is reasonably easy to acquire or allow fakes in tournaments.
So long as your not selling or trading counterfeits for the real deal there is no issue.
In fact counterfeits -especially good/perfect counterfeits- are fantastic. The function of a magic card is to represent game entities. Good counterfeits do that by fitting seamlessly into decks and being recognizable to other players so they know the effect on the battlefield. Being effectively indistinguishable renders clarity.
Using the Tennis analogy above. If there is an expensive titanium racket with great performance that gives the player an advantage, and another racket appears with basically identical performance for a tiny fraction of the price that would be heralded as fantastic news!
It removed a barrier for casual/armature player that ought not exist in a competitive environments otherwise designed to test player competence. And while it would be wrong of me to try and sell the racket as the more expensive one, My opponent is in no way entitled to know the detail of my racket outside of material concerns and function. (Cheating aside) I.E. something that Magic cards counterfeits are effectively perfect at replicating.
If you don't like that I just cast imperial seal/Moat etc., that's your problem. Deal with it.
If Hasbro would like to undercut the competition they have that power. I personally would love to support WotC for the game they created and maintained.
As for a moral argument by Hasbro to me, it can get fucked. A corporation who values profit above all else is amoral and has no grounds on which to address me.
>>48254937
>ITT: people calling other people jews for buying expensive cards
Those are not jews, those are retards
the jews are the ones that sell them at expensive prices
>>48259523
>Red bolshevik scum
The state should not interfere with the economic business
I'm fine with fakes as long as their owners never try to sell them or otherwise get money off them by pretending they're real.
What happened to Fire Man? I haven't been any fakes in a year or so and none of the people mentioned in this thread seem familiar.
>arguing with people that game pieces of any kind should be expensive
Come on /tg/, you're better than this. Just let the retarded spend their money how they want.
If you make a realistic-looking copy of a card for the sake of a proxy, you fully intend to get a legitimate copy of the card at some point in time, and you either point out to your playgroup/opponent that it is a proxy or have a wording on the card that displays it as a proxy which is clearly visible, then I'm more than okay with it.
If you make fake realistic cards and sell them off as real cards, you're a bit of a prick.
>>48264562
And if i buy/make a realistic looking copy of the card that i don't plan to sell, but just play with them as if it were real?
>want to buy a deck for EDH
>ask friends if i can proxy a few of the more expensive cards
>"no"
>ask why
>the answer is some kind of vague "we spent money on our cards too and we don't play expensive cards and we don't want you to play expensive cards"
>okay whatever
>friend suggests a card for the deck
>it's 8 dollars or something
>ask friend if it's okay if i proxy it
>"no"
then why the fuck did you suggest a card that's obviously too expensive to play
should i just kill myself and my friends if they do not tolerate proxies of someone who is poor af
>>48264842
dont play the game if you cant afford an $8 card
it is not a cheap hobby, and nobody wants to play their real cards against your tryhard $2000 edh deck that you dont even own in paper.
I have a bunch of old cards probably worth $3000+. Like 20 revised duals, an unlimited mox ruby, a library of alexandria, etc. I'm wondering if I should sell them or keep hanging onto them. With counterfeits out and getting better and better maybe it's time. What do you think anons?
>>48264984
i can afford a 8 dollar card but i can't justify using that amount of money on that amount of cardboard
and the deck i was gonna buy is like 60 dollars. one friend mentioned that i should spend another 50 dollars on some of the more expensive cards, so obviously he has nothing against me playing expensive cards, he just wants me to pay the full price for the cards for some arbitrary reason
>>48265049
>entitled scum
If I'm obligated to use real cards, you are too. Fuck off with your self-centered teenage attitude. If you can't buy a particular card, clearly it's not important enough to be used. Even part time minimum wage can afford a $100 card once and a while, or really save up for something better. There are budget options for things too. If you want to play, and you want to won, but you don't want to spend money or git gud then you're playing the wrong hobby.
>>48265169
but you are not obligated to use real cards as far as i'm concerned. you can use as many proxies as you'd like
>Fuck off with your self-centered teenage attitude
you have a very toxic attitude friend. i know you had to walk uphill to buy your magic boosters both ways but to be honest i don't give a shit about the trading card aspect of the game, just the game itself. and once again you miss my point like the illiterate mouthbreathing mongoloid that you are, it's not that i don't have the money, it's that i can't reasonably rationalize a purchase of a card that has roughly a 8000% mark-up due to manufactured supply and demand shenanigans.
it honestly sounds like you got a bad case of the crab mentality. not everyone enjoys the trading card aspect, so why would you be an entitled teenager and get offended by that? looks like you've got some growing up to do.
>>48265049
Either you play smart and use real cards to try and build fun decks, or fuck off. Otherwise everyone may aswell just stop trying, netdeck most powerful decks, and quit playing because its boring.
>>48265169
>I'm mad if you don't pay to win!! OMG MONEY MUST BUY YOUR SKILL OR THE GAME IS UNFAIR!!!
Thats how you sound.
>>48265411
why is it so hard to read bro
>one friend mentioned that i should spend another 50 dollars on some of the more expensive cards, so obviously he has nothing against me playing expensive cards, he just wants me to pay the full price for the cards for some arbitrary reason
they have nothing against expensive cards, but they do have a problem with proxies. so they just want me to spend money on the cards for no rational reason at all
>>48265449
No friend, I'll counter by saying it's YOU who needs to learn to read.
If you don't mind just making proxies, you may as well just bypass the cards and make 100% proxy decks instead of working within your own limitations of budget and imagination. Fuck off retard.
>>48260802
The only problem here is that Wizards owns the IDEA of a piece of cardboard with the words "Scalding Tarn" on them.
>>48265501
yeah bro slippery slope fallacy my asshole ahhh yess feels good
go ride a hoverboard you dumbass
>>48265521
How do you own an idea?
>>48265533
After you shitposter. /b/ is to your left.
>>48265556
so it's okay for you to shitpost but not for me? yeah ok
>>48265540
Look up "intellectual property". The idea that that's a real thing i what all of this hinges on.
No card should cost more than $5. I've never bought a card worth more than $2, with one exception because it was a gift ($8).
Legacy player here
If you're playing with proxies, I don't give a shit. I'm playing legacy with new blood and that's fucking great. I'm playing edh with people at full power or 75% and that's fucking great. It's great to play with new people. New people won't play when their ideal deck is $1000, especially when the deck can be stolen or easily ruined.
>muh hundreds of dollars
Fuck off, you knew better than to treat easily destructible and easily replicable as actual monetary investment. You just wanted to ripoff nerds like the mega-kikes you are
>muh powerful decks
>everyone is gonna netdeck powerful cards
Bitch please, you want free wins in EDH. Don't even front.
>>48265920
delete this you poorfag
>>48266014
>you want free wins in EDH. Don't even front.
>Format made specifically for casual play
Anyone who takes EDH seriously should go and stay go
>>48265888
Yeah well, if i copy the idea so well, how can they seid that is not the original idea?
Also, free market>intellectual properties
>>48266021
>Guy doesn't want to drop $400 on a stack of 60 cards
>Lol poor fag
>Guy doesn't want to drop $800 on a I-watch
>Lol poor fag
>Guy doesn't want to drop $89 on a gouche condom
>Lol poor fag
>>48266659
Why do we even have these threads if all they do is devolve into poorfags talking about how they blew their summer job money on cards and laughing at normal people who realize the abnormality of the artificially inflated card market?
>>48265033
Wait for the buyout guy to finish his job, then sell at a few hundred below the then tripled prices to move them fast.
>>48267547
What buyout guy?
>>48268982
The guy systematically buying out all reserved list cards one at a time to force the prices up before he sells them, he single handedly killed legacy and vintage
>>48271506
That is pretty great. I wish him all the luck in the world. Maybe Wizards will finally kill the stupidity that is the reserved list if he does.
>>48271789
http://blog.mtgprice.com/2016/07/05/an-interview-with-the-man-behind-the-buyouts/
Jimmies were rustled
>>48271864
>he is a jew
/pol/dredge was right
frankly, i'm not a fan of proxies. i'd never do it myself.
that said, i don't mind if people proxy stuff. i want a fun game, not just a complete cakewalk.
on that matter, you should really only be proxying the stuff you REALLY can't afford, not easily-obtainable stuff. if you can't put some effort in, then mtg really isn't for you.
>>48271506
Are you talking about the guy who doesn't understand the basics of MTG finance that is under the impression that he can take a pile of Moats to a dealer and say "give me $500 apiece for these" and not get laughed out of the convention hall? Yeah, he's going to have a real lasting impact.
>>48272307
This. I love proxies, they got me into Legacy. But for gods sake, don't proxy Basics.
The reserved list is a great idea, but you can tell it's not going to last forever. As some other anon said, there are fewer and fewer people who benefit from it, and WotC can potentially make a lot of money from undoing it.
The original cards might even retain most of their value if there are reprints, right guys?
>>48272477
How much is an alpha Wrath of God worth?
>>48272310
He isn't, that's my point. Wait for the bubble, undercut him by a couple hundred to sell at an inflated price before it pops.
>>48272513
No idea, but Beta ones are $300+.
>>48272513
Not enough.
T. Doktor kike mckikestein
>>48272477
>The reserved list is a great idea,
I use them a lot in EDH.
It's nice to be able to field a deck I brewed and not lag leagues behind for budget reasons because my local meta is pretty high powered. I just slowly accumulate real versions of proxied cards as time goes on.
Not that any of the other people in my meta can tell they're proxies after double-sleeving.
Friendly reminder, regardless of price points, MTG is still cheaper than 40K.
>have 25+ decks
>all use the same chase rares
>this is how people justify proxies
isn't playing multiple copies of the same deck just really fucking boring?
>>48274069
Really? Is there any type of tournament format where $20,000 armies are the norm? I'm really curious.
>>48274116
>he doesn't chrome plate and jewel encrust his armies
bet that shit looks awful famalam
>>48274106
>If 2 decks both use a same card, that means that those decks are identical.
Epic logic.
