How can anyone win against elves? They live for centuries so soldiers have a fuckton of experience.
Presumably there are diminishing returns on experience past a certain point.
>>47807318
Living for centuries also makes you arrogant and cocky.
>>47807318
Elvish forms are naturally frail. This means that they don't have enough testosterone, which accounts for their significantly reduced muscle mass. This also means that no matter how old they get, unless they develop hormone therapy, elves will always look and be like they skipped leg day.
So teach your soldiers to squat. Teach them to bench press. Teach them to grow as men do, and overpower the elves at every turn.
Bullet to face.
Years of experience doing what exactly? Hiding away in your secret little flower village for five hundred years and ignoring everything going on in the outside world, including technological advances far beyond the scope of magic?
>>47807318
Diminishing returns are a thing. The idea that you'll be getting infinitely better over time is silly
>>47807318
That depends more on how frequently their soldiers fight in wars.
It could be that the elvish mindset classifies all wars as either "not in our land, not our problem" or "we can't win and we're tired of living anyway" so they haven't practiced their tactics on anyone but the occasional trespassing lumberjack for ten thousand years.
>>47807352
They use DEX weapons though so you're still dead.
>>47807469
Can't use dex on the initial grapple check anon.
Depends on the setting
Too often just handwaved though. Or just, "elves ARE better soldiers, they just don't reproduce quickly so they have less of them"
>>47807318
Depends on the setting.
In LotR an army of elves is pretty much guaranteed to beat an army of dwarves or men, simply by virtue of being celestial super-people.
If we're talking about D&D settings, then the elves are balanced by the fact they breed very slowly and so are out numbered and the fact they usually spend a lot longer doing everything, so they have proportional experience to a human just over a longer time scale.
>>47807318
They spend too much time drawing beautifull shit, but not enough time getting into shit.
>>47807494
>implying you can get close enough to grapple before being sliced into 100000 pieces by their mithril elvish blades
*tips elvish helm*
>>47807318
>>47807505
Well, in my own setting there's a lot of reasons.
Elves currently suffer from a reduced population and a near species-wide level of depression, their long lives also mean they age slow as hell so what army they do have are all arrogant, nigh, perma-teenagers, and the elves who are famous for fighting are kind of reckless about it and are often sent into pointless wars because the people who contract them are worried what they'll do when they run out of fights.
>>47807318
The real issue here isn't their warriors but their mages.
Old elven mages would be powerful enough to wipe out an entire human army wouldn't they?
I mean, if a human can reach max level during his lifetime then imagine what an elf could achieve.
>>47807527
How are their elvish blades going to slash through my plate armor that I can carry, but they can't?
>>47807537
How original this setting of yours is don't forget to add drunkard dwarves and evil overlord living in a big tower.
>>47807566
Why the fuck wouldn't they wear plate? U
>>47807566
Elves don't get a penalty to strength, dummy senpai.
>>47807566
Their blades are made of elvish steel and can cut through it like butter.
Or they'd just kill you with magic.
Try again.
I like Roman themed Elves compared to Celtic or Mongolian themed humans and other savage races. Helps drive home that the Elven civilization is really old too.
>>47807599
>>47807597
They're generally gimp-level weak in most settings.
>>47807644
Greek Elves, Roman Dwarfs
I usually have elves as hugely superior to humans. Triggers the fuck out of neckbeard "HFY XD" players.
>>47807318
>>47807318
the ones that live centuries are the one that don't fight.
>>47807318
According to Lasalle, any hussar who lived past the age of 30 is a wanker. That means elves are ultra-wankers, spending literally centuries masturbating rather than fighting.
Compare the gruesome orcs, whose average life expectancy is... what? 12?
>>47807318
Besides the combat experience, soldiers also accumulate stress and eventually derangements caused by this stress.
Elvish warrior with 50+ years of deploy would have collected so many kinds of crazy his own people would need to put him down like a rabid dog he is.
>>47807654
If they can't wear 15-25 kg armor then I'm surprised they can move their own furniture.
Eh, they probably develop shitty weebish fighting styles, and their obsession with harmony with nature etc makes them utter garbage at combat.
Even with experience and super speed, they would lose to a equiv or slightly smaller amount of well armed humans.
>>47807654
Lolwut? Elves are arguably the best warriors in most settings despite appearing frail. They have unnatural strength.
What settings are you playing?
>>47807654
Which settings are those?
>>47807678
This is the last thread I expected to see Czterej Pancerni.
>>47807318
because they don't actually spend those centuries fighting. Elves generally lounge around most of their lives and rarely see fit to engage in war. Most elves should know how to fight better than the average human, but only by a moderate margin.
Humans are an especially ambitious race who feel the need to devote themselves to the pursuit of excellence in one form or another, when most elves aim more to appreciate life, as ambition isn't something which much power in the life which spans hundreds of years. It only takes humans like 50 years to realize how little shit matters, and what little there is really worth fighting over.
>>47807580
>drunken dwarves
That's just silly.
Everyone is drunk.
>>47807661
Why not just play an elf, then?
>>47807710
>implying
Elves routinely win against humans DESPITE their lower numbers.
Look at the high elves in Warhammer for example
>>47807318
I have an idea. Let's put those elves in the 40k universe and see how they compare to space marines, chaos, and orks.Well that was quick, I guess someone CAN win against elves.
>>47807732
>Elves generally lounge around most of their lives
This is cancer that's present in so many settings that it's ridiculous. Authors are just unable to come up with any reasons why elves aren't straight up better than humans, so that's the cop out they go with.
>>47807318
They live that long in peacetime. They're not skipping gaily through warzones in that time. They die like anyone else.
>>47807318
Simple attrition. Elves in almost every setting reproduce too slowly to field massive armies. Even if their armies can inflict twice or three times the casualties against their human equivalents, they aren't going to have the numbers to beat humans. Humans can field armies of tens or hundreds of thousands. Elves would more likely field armies in the hundreds.
>>47807318
R- vs. K-strategy, diminishing returns, senescence, lack of industrialisation, high individualism, lack of political will towards war, and the fact that dying of old age is less of a concern in a medieval inspired setting.
>>47807757
>Let's put a medieval fantasy race in a futuristic high tech setting and see if they lose lol
You're not very bright are you?
>>47807318
Nec Hercules contra plures
Elves are extreme example of minmaxing quality vs quantity
>>47807615
I don't care if your sword is made of elvish steel or it's a weeboo magic fightan stick, you can't cut through plate mail. You can't, and probably shouldn't, as it's just more efficient to pierce it, and considering elves are more bows-and-spears kinda people, so take that angle. It's (somewhat) more realistic to have a spear or an arrow piercing armor than it is a sword slashing through it.
>>47807580
>A bad guy who is evil
>A dragon with treasure
>Wizards who carry spellbooks
>Knights who wear armor
>Swords with sharp edges
>Women with vaginas instead of penises
>Animals who walk on four legs
>Sun that emits light
fucking cliches
>>47807760
That's straight from Tolkien.
>>47807823
How do you know elven blade made from non existing material can't cut through plate that might have different durability from real life one since physics in fantasy worlds seem to work different?
>>47807751
>Look at the high elves in Warhammer for example
The ones that actually don't win against humans ?
>>47807769
Actually the more I think about this, I think this really is how humans beat elves. I know it's not groundbreaking shit, but especially if you're talking about tolkien's elves, where the entire species numbers in the tens of thousands, as opposed to humans in their millions, humans really would just ware them down. If you have an army of (optimistically) a few thousand elves trying to stop an army of 100k+ humans, even if they adopt Fabian tactics or use guerrilla warfare, I doubt they'd be able to inflict casualties fast enough to stop the army from reaching their population centers, especially if it's an army with a lot of cavalry or mages who can help counteract their hit and run tactics. So I guess Mongol Hordes > Elves.
>>47807901
Well they're allies most of the time but the high elves could wreck the empire if they wanted to.
Besides without the high elves humans would have been raped by Chaos.
>>47807900
If we're going to throw physics and common sense out the window then there's literally no point in discussing it. Sure, any setting can Mc.Guffin into the setting a material that CAN CUT STEEL LIKE BUTTR GAIZ, but that's boring, and more to the point it's kind of pointless when talking about elves. They're big thing is supposed to be having an entire army of elite, well trained soldiers, right? If you add in a material advantage component, humans would win by simple virtue of production efficiency over the love-the-land sustainable elves, at least that's the way I see it.
![tumblr_mi9ocmvUlW1rpduwho1_500[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/ohjM8sl.gif "tumblr_mi9ocmvUlW1rpduwho1_500[1].gif")
>>47807757
You mean the Eldar that dominated the galaxy before commiting suicide by Chaos God, and can take on SMs one-to-one?
>>47807760
>Implying you wouldn't lounge around all day every day if you were immortal.
Don't lie, you've only got 40 years of peak mental and physical efficiency, and you're already wasting time on 4chan.
>>47807697
Lasalle himself died at 34, though, and he certainly wasn't a wanker.
>>47807726
Poland stronk!
>>47807935
>>47807901
Okay, it's established in lore that no single faction in the warhammer universe other than chaos could stand against the empire (I'm getting this from the Empire and Bretonia's codecies, it's also mentioned in one of the older dwarf codices, and it's mentioned on the warhammer wiki) Is that stupid? Probably. Is that a case of GW's HFY? Probably. But it's true, and it kinda makes sense if you stop and think about it. They have the same awesome heroes and awesome warlords as all the other humans, plus they have borderline industrialization, huge population, and they have some of the most reliable and dangerous military technology in the setting.
>>47808009
Citation needed
>>47808009
The Empire has a major problem : when it's not threatened, it will degenerate into petty wars and other noble general shittery, which is why the Empire can't actually steamroll the setting.
Plus, the Empire has enough work into pacifying its own forests and hills, they don't really need to invade Ulthuan.
>>47808067
Already provided? I'm not doing a full MLA citation if that's what you mean.
>>47808053
>>47807318
Yeah thats great and all but I got 100 times more guys and they arent that bad themselves.
>>47808101
Just a link to wherever you read that would suffice.
>>47808090
It would be almost impossible for the Empire to invade ulthuan let alone hold any territory for very long.
>>47807912
Mongols love rape, so they have a 2x DAM modifier against elves, who are weak to rape.
>>47807912
Didnt humans beat the other almost humans by out breeding them in real life? Everyone always complains about humans being the average race but the never realize that they are really the numbers race.
>>47808175
Well okay.
http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Empire_of_Man
http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Bretonnia
http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/The_End_Times
Those pages, plus go to wherever you steal your codices from and grab the most recent empire codice, the 7th edition bretonian codex, and if you really really want you can read back through all the dwarf codices to find it. Some of the Chaos codices mention that the empire is the only thing standing between them and the world, too. For that one I can cite 4th edition warriors/demons of chaos book (think it's 4th ed, its the one with the vinyl black marble looking one with the chaos seal on the front), plus that old champions of chaos hero book (think it's 3rd or 4th edition?)
So many elf loving fags in here holy shit.
Pelinal is disappointed.
>>47808305
Its always good to remember that just because some people are less advanced it doesnt mean they are less intelligent.
In my headcanon I believe elves are more scared to die because of their longer lifespan, so they're overly cautious compared to humans.
>>47807748
Make them not a playable race like Symbaroum, where they're a capricious potential enemy.
Well, there are supplements for playing certain things for Symbaroum like elves, but they're generally considered to be for more experienced, higher level parties and scarce at that.
>>47807837
>Women with vaginas instead of penises
Okay, some of those are spot on the money and some are a little iffy (sun that emits light, that's a stretch), but this is just absurd.
>>47808009
>>47808267
Nope.
These pages mention The Empire as the most powerful force in The Old World. Which is just the continent upon which most of the human nations reside. Lustria, Ulthuan, Naggaroth, etc are different places.
>>47807840
In Tolkien elves are straight better than men, your argument is invalid
>>47808386
Like to see you invent bows and arrows from nothing but wood and sinew.
>>47807318
quantity >minituization>>>>>>>>shit>>>>>>>quality
>>47808332
good to remember that intelligence =/= experience as well.
>>47807944
Give me a plasma torch and I cut through your plate mail like it's fucking nothing, and look, I'm using the laws of physics, now stop being an autist, if elves (fey creatures that live for millenia, have magical shit, etc) exist dunno why elvish steel can't exist
>>47807318
They're slower breeders, so every casualty hurts more. And they're not hardy as fuck like dwarves to compensate.
I usually run elves in my games as monsters alien in personality and superior to humans in pretty much every way.
They're much stronger, faster, tougher, smarter, sharper in senses, and have natural weapons in the form of retractable claws and more pronounced teeth. They capitalize on their agelessness to become more skilled and knowledgable than any human can be.
They lack any sense of morality or inhibitions and will happily fuck and eat anything that moves regardless of sex or race. Their birthrate isn't low and is only kept in check by the smarter and more powerful elves making sure they don't overpopulate, usually by eating the babies, while most humans just hope that elves don't fuck their day up and eventually take all the land and at best keep humans around for amusement or as cattle.
I started doing this after a couple of my players simultaneously went full HUMANITY FUCK YEAH XD, started buying into le edgy /pol/ counterculture, and actually started using the word "degenerate" in common speech. The butthurt, while petty, was greatly pleasurable to me, especially when one complained and then piped down after remembering I'm the only one around willing to GM.
>>47807318
Depends on the setting
Tolkien elves are literal superhuman in all aspects and are second only to the ainur, and even then not by that much. Fingolfin rode alone to Angbad straight through the Orcish armies, kicked in the gates and held his own in a duel vs Melkor who was the strongest of the Valar before his fall, permanently crippling him before finally getting tired and losing due to fatigue. No human can compare to that.
Typical DnD fluff the average elf is only maybe slightly better than a trained human and they are hugely outnumbered so no they'd get their shit pushed in.
>>47808437
You're actually right. I guess some where in my head "the old" got removed from "the old world." Actually, even looking at the chaos codices, it does say that the empire is the only thing standing between chaos and the Old World too, so I admit I was off.
>>47808695
>Elves are half a step back from superman
Part of me wonders how much of that is supposed to be apocryphal within elven history and mythology. We never see modern elves do anything that badass, and I know they have their whole "elves are a declining race" thing, you also see a lot of that kind of thing when you look at how medieval historians looked at the past. During the dark ages there was this sense that the men of the past (mostly romans and biblical figures) were far superior to the men of that day, and I since Professor Tolkien was a student of history, I wonder if he didn't incorporate that idea into his elven mythology.
>>47808503
Because that implies elves forge metal, when trees and nature are their thing. Leave the mystical metal forging to dwarves, or your elves become Mary Sues (a race that's infinitely lived, better than anyone else, has the best weapons, armor, combat training, diplomacy, metal forging, stealth tactics, and everything else they have are far superior to literally everything anyone else has. And they live in mysterious magical forests protected by forest spirits and magical dire wolves.)
>>47808855
There's nothing wrong with something being superior in every facet. Surely the kind of..."people"...that play roleplaying games see the realism in that.
>>47808503
>Advanced plasma technology thousands of years beyond the elves can cut steel, so muh evlish blade can too!
What? I seriously think you missed a step there. Want to try again? I wasn't saying nothing anywhere can cut steel, I was saying a sword can't cut steel.
>>47807318
In my OC DONUT STEEL setting, Elves live centuries, maybe even millenias, but since time is so stretched for them, they also are slow learners and extremely poor improvisers.
All in all, an Elf my beat a fighter of another race in a duel, or in a battle, but they're fairly easy to deal with if you catch them by surprise since they're simply too slow to react to unpredicted threats and depend too much on command chain and squad discipline
>>47808879
But that's not interesting. How is it interesting when literally every problem gets solved by the elves in a hundredth of the time that your characters would have taken because a race of Mary Sues is apparently completely fine if they have Tolkien backing them.
>>47808942
Suffice advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic and elves do magic
>>47808983
Something something casters and martials
>>47808995
Sufficiently *
>>47809014
But elven fighters and rangers don't use magic. See: hobbit films.
>>47808995
Here's the problem here. I'm looking at this scenario by applying real life rules and assuming that an elf would be a combatant roughly equal to a human in physical capability, but with considerably more experience and perhaps faster, and going from there. You're looking at the combat, and assuming the human is restricted by real life logic and rules, and the elf is a magic supersoldier who can just should MAGIC, MUH MAGIC and fuck the rules. That's fine. Your setting can do that, and many settings do exactly that, but if you're going to throw real life logic out the window in favor of MUH MAGIC without putting forth some kind of rules for how said magic works, why even start talking in the first place?
>>47808834
I can see the parallels and I do agree that I think that's what he was going for but within the setting this stuff isn't actually apocryphal. There are still elves around that were involved in those events even in the third age. Look at Galadriel, she's Fingolfin's niece and was already centuries old when she journeyed to Middle Earth with Fingolfin's host of the Noldor and is still around and active even into the end of the Third Age. There really was an age of great heroes and great villains and fabulous creations but that has all passed and the age of mortals draws near.
Figure out how much the long lifespans warp perspective on events. There is no reason for them not to continually think about long term possibilities because they will live to see the results but this has it's downsides. Prisoner Dilemma situations screw them over as they'll tend towards long term goals over immediate gain, allowing other races to make those gains at the expense of the Elves. They know industrialization will kill the planet eventually so they won't do it. Won't stop a dwarven coal-rolling tank crushing through the gates.
>>47807318
If an Elf is supposed to be Physical perfection how can an elf be born with a shamefully tiny penis
>>47809180
forgot the evidence
>>47809180
Different standards of beauty? Hey, the ancient greeks thought a large penis was for barbarians and savages, maybe the elves think the same.
>>47809212
Man, I could ignore a lot of the problems with that movie, but making elves and draenei ugly was just fucking unacceptable. UH NEED MUH SEXY BLUE FANTASY CHICKS
>>47809228
Then again, those Barbarians and Savages ( Germanics ) were fawned upon by both the Romans and Greeks.
>>47809250
>Romans fawned upon germanics
Uh... I guess? That's a funny way to spell conquered and subjegated... I know they kind of let their iron fist soften over time as the empire declined, but the romans and germanic tribes were never on the best of terms, at least as I recall.
>>47809228
That elf had to be wounded be fore the orc war, was his penis to small to let him avoid a human attack
>>47809159
Yeah but wasn't there also a human (he dated an elf and died for our sins, stole back a silmaril or some shit? I forget his name) who did some highly improbable, legendary type stuff in their mythology too? Are the men of the past also conveniently greater?
>>47807760
I don't know why 4chan has this attitude with everything... It's not laziness or unoriginality, that's what the nature of elves should logically be. Instead of trying to find fault with everything that isn't utterly, perfectly anomalous you should give it just a little but of fuckin thought.
Elves live thousands of years, potentially infinite. Why would they be anything but lackadaisical and unambitious? As I said, humans get like that after fucking fifty-sixty years of life.
>>47809159
She joined Finogolfin not for revenge but because she thought the High elves should go back to middle earth and rule. She was not allowed to return to Valinor until she proved her redemption and passed on taking the ring
>>47807318
The job of soldier is low-class and unpopular among elves. The king and other nobles are expected to win battles, it's necessary and even prestigious, but fighting them is vulgar. Lesser races do that job and there's almost no elf warriors. For the few exception, lack of motivation and recognition by their fellowmen don't encourage wasting too much time practising or developing the art.
>>47809293
>Conquered the Germans
The Romans never actually conquered many of the Germanic tribes because it was close to impossible to move the Roman legions through the thick German forests without getting ambushed and beaten to death by tribes of very angry northmen who you can't buy out like gauls because their unifying religion.
>elven empire made of de facto independent elven kingdoms, modelet after Byzantium
>they are not just conservative but reactionary to the extreme, trying to roll back the world and return to the time when they ruled most of the continent
>they have the wondeful cultural practice of singletons in every family to merge families and titles
>blood purity, status and titles are everything
>same incompetent leaders can stay in position for centuries, any exceptional talent quickly get Bellisarius'd
>constant intrigue and you know that I know that he knows that I know that you would do that tier plots
>their craftsmen, magicians and troops are still head and shoulders above the rest of the world so they are left alone to simmer
>zero social advancement based on merit or wealth, entire empire is full of tension
>the human "Empire" , basically the HRE starts slowly centralizing over the centuries, bids are getting made by the semi-independent electors for the vacant throne
>the elves dont give a fuck because humans r teh stoopids plus their greatest priest had made a prophecy about "no man will ever be able to claim the imperial throne for himself"
>dont you know prophecies are always 100% true and the only ones questioning them are hereticsd?
>then a crafty old crone comes up with a plan to gain the throne for her son
>goads one of the elven kingdoms into a war of honor alone(meant to mirror the Ems dispatch)
>elves except a quick and easy war, all the nobles participating are just going for style points trying to hog as much glory as possible to improve their status and quickly return to the court before losing favor
>they are even trying to fuck eachother over
>their entire strategy is trying to find a human army, smash it then wait for their leaders to come out and negotiate a surrender
>worked pretty well for over a millennium
>>47809324
All from Mamery
Elf King Thingo Married a Mair Named Mellini (the same race as Gandalf and Sauron). She had a magic spell "The girdle of Mellini" the hid and protected the elf kingdom. They had a daughter named Luthian who fell in love with a man named Beron, the two had adventures like beating up Sauran and hislady the vampire queen and skinning them so they could pretend to be a Wearwolf and GiantBat. They go to the Evil Morgoth's lair and she sang Morgoth to sleep and his iron crown fell off and they took a Sillymarion off the crown and ran out but the fiendish guard dog bit his hand off.
There son also married and there grand kids were Elrond and the first human King Elros
And Mellini taught Galadrial Magic and Galadrial taught Arwen
>>47809417
Romans conquered the entirety of Germania save for a tiny corner from which more northerner tribes came from and pulled the romans back.
>>47807912
Depends what we're talking about here.
10,000 Noldor will absolutely slap the shit out of an unlimited number of humans, but if the humans are Numenorean then the odds are more even.
Tolkien elves pre-third age were absolutely bullshit, but then, so were the humans. Don't even get me started on the half-elves.
>>47809496
>Skinning an evil lord and a vampire queen with your elven girlfriend
Is this literally the best date conceivable?
Also I love how Luthien was supposed to be this perfect elven maiden of gentle purity and yet she helped her boyfriend FUCKING FLAY TWO LIVING PEOPLE
>>47807944
>>47807823
Except Zwiehanders are literally on-record for having pierced plate armor.
As for all this weebing out over Elve's, they're a made up race and can be as competent or as incompetent as anyone wants them.
>>47807318
>MUH TOLKIEN ELVES
Good for you. Traditionally speaking, Elves were always small, fairy-like creatures that were either romantic or mischevious pieces of shit.
Dwarves on the other hand could kick a traditional Elf's ass.
It's almost like Tolkien spent his entire life writing a fanfiction about Elves because of how much he jerked off all over them.
Anyway, their constitution is -2, so just catapult a diseased corpse into their stupid little tree-houses and watch the pandemic spread.
>>47809415
Nice headcannon bro does your setting have women with 4 tits as well?
>>47809550
At the Time Sauron was a sub lord he and his Vampire lady were also Maia so not really people
Yes skinned and then wore it like Buffalo Bill
>>47809598
No, since that's not related to culture.
>>47809567
Piercing, maybe. As I said, piercing is possible. Cutting through? Not likely.
>>47809446
>turns out the humans strategic goal in the war is war itself
>they are drumming up patriotic support and floating the idea of unification based on culture and language instead of a gorillion tiny fiefdoms aganist the evil invaders
>they unveil their new model army(basically prussians)
>elves are expecting medieval style knights and peasant men-at-arms with tasty rich nobles to capture and ransom
>they meet rows and rows of uniformed riflemen and artillery instead
>imperials also have things like signalling corps, a general staff system, logistics corps with supply depots, promotions based on merit
>they often even retreat in good order like cowards!
>elves still absolutely wreck human armies 9 times out of 10, its almost like an unbroken string of victories
>they are elated but humans still refuse to come out and negotiate
>so they start razing villages
>still nothing
>one of the elven commanders decide to do something big and daringly move on one of the most culturally important human city Altkirche where the Empire was founded(basically Aachen)
>they fire off a gigantic magical spell that turn everyone into wild animals in the city and triumphantly march in
>turns out culturally important doesnt always mean strategically important and armies guarding the coalfields and iron mines around the city quickly rally
>they set their own city ablaze and cause a stampede
>entire elven army gets quickly encircled and forced to fight out a brutal Stalingrad-esque house to house battle
>barely manage to escape leaving all their supplies behind
>>47809567
Traditionally speaking, Elf is another name for a Fairy, Sprite, Fey, Goblin, Kobold or whatever other otherworldly spirits from Northern European cultures.
Or are you a dumbass who thinks Fairies are only tiny women with wings?
>>47807318
In real life experience has diminishing returns and soldiers of lower experience can beat greater ones by virtue of numbers and chance fairly easily.
Experience is only partially about getting better, and much more about remembering not to make certain mistakes and making your guesses in combat much more accurate....but still just guesses.
Randomness and chance still heavily
They live for centuries, so they are horribly wary of dying early. Their inability to accept personal risk to mitigate group risk cripples their strategy in battle.
>>47809632
Dumb
>>47809567
>Except Zwiehanders are literally on-record for having pierced plate armor.
I don't really doubt you, but you wouldn't happen to have any sources for that on hand? I'm just genuinely interested.
>>47809631
>cutting through
Depends. If the quality is really bad, or if the armor is made up of weaker material than what the sword is, it can cut through it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWebK6POqP4
>>47809641
>Or are you a dumbass who thinks Fairies are only tiny women with wings?
Autism?
>>47809699
Not him but here you go bro. skip to the third minute.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFAKTjOQJwQ
It cuts cardboxes like its nothing
>>47807318
>>47809641
>>47809641
mmmmmmmmm tiny women
I should make wings again and say over 18 to get in the shop and under 5 feet to get free wings
>>47809632
>in the end the kill ratio is still almost 8 to 1 for the elves not counting civilians and a razed city
>its a huge moral victory rallying humans in the entire realm and unification into the nation state becomes political reality
>the humans can easily replenish losses because of their vast reserves
>it would take a century for the elven craftsmen to furnish another army like that and most of the elven soldiers were minor nobility
>the smarter elven commanders realize they would have to wage a total war, sieging or destroying every major human settlement to win and conduct deep strategic operations
>the elven king refuses to budge, he only sees the string of easy victories and urges them to push on
>some of the more pragmatic commanders recommend raising human armies and allying with rebellious nobles to occupy land and deprive the Empire from resources
>they get executed for heresy, elves never ally with inferior races!
>their unrestricted naval warfare sinking every human ship also makes other human nations to support or atleast stay neutral to the imperials
>a completely winnable war turned into a drawn out slugfest for the elves and they dont have the means replacing their losses
>constant bickering and replacing their commanders eroded their initiative too
>b-but we are killing a lot of humans, we are winning right?
>>47808318
Please kill yourself already you unfunny faggot.
>>47809775
Was she supposed to be half human? I've heard a few people say she was supposedly half draenei? Either way none of those make sense considering that the three races are from different fucking planets.
>>47809699
>>47809850
http://www.thearma.org/essays/2HGS.html#.V2M_A2b6uUk
>>47807955
>Eldar that dominated the galaxy
>Old Ones ded
>Necrons wounded & sleepy from old ones
>Orks not giving a fuck
They're more or less a win by default for being some of the only active guys there.
>>47809839
>the humans superior logistics and leadership enables them to capitalize on elven mistakes
>by a huge fluke and serious casualties they manage to capture an "impregnable" elven fortress
>jokes on them, its indefensible and they have to retreat
>huge blow and a loss of prestige to the elven king, he has to move quick and restore his potency in the eyes of the nobility
>decides to lead his troops personally to battle
>preferably an easy one
>manages to surround the retreating army
>"lets give them a day to wallow in fear"
>the human army spends its borrowed time digging in and making breastworks
>elven king charges into a gunline and eats a cannonball
>the entire elven army does an Agincourt and keeps charging into superior ranged troops
>the countercharge absolutely destroys them, almost the entire nobility and their camp follower advisors are wiped out
>the elven kingdom collapses in a power vacuum and its elven neighbors go into a feeding frenzy civil war over who gets to "protect" them
>they are so mad over this betrayal they unconditionally surrender to the humans to throw the spoils away
>the collapse was far too quick, the crones son gets declared emperor of the german people and abolishes the feudal empire
>electors rise up against him and neighboring countries support them fearing major power rising
>the Thirty Years War begins
>everyone loses
>bad end
>>47809897
The con and retcon is as fluid as a SJW sexual Identity
Every one thought she was half human, but she was half draenei. it was arranged by the necro dude
there were draenei on the orc planet because they fled the demons from their planet and crashed a spaceship on the orc world, then they were mostly killed off by the orcs
Then in a WOW add on there are draenei on an island on Azeroth having crashed in a different spaceship and the spilled fuel was making mutations
individual solider skill means fuck all in mass combat
its about discipline / moral / tactics / armaments
it isn't like some movie where you have heroes wading through the chaos cutting people down left and right, its just a machine that grinds people up
so no elves wouldnt have a huge advantage in group combat even though they might be stronger 1v1
>>47807318
Meh. How tough can they be when their level limits are fighting man 4th (hero) and magic-user 8th (warlock)?
>>47810059
Unless the elves have higher tech armor and spears
>>47807705
It's all wicker furniture.
>>47810059
That's actually a fair point there. What with their more delicate constitutions, could elves even hold up that well in the drawn out sweaty clusterfucks that open battles tend to turn in to?
I feel like to compensate for their lack of numbers and their weak constitution elves would probably end up with lots of cavalry and archers. Maybe knight-esque heavy cavalry backed up by mounted archers?
>>47810117
Some of it is Waddle
>>47810120
Well in those kinds of battles they fought for a few minutes then kinda withdrew a bit let people rest and send in new people
>>47810059
Sorry but you're wrong. Most combat of the medieval period wasn't men in phalanxes going up against each-other like the Greeks were doing nearly two millennia before them, you had men in in heavy armor wading into battle lines and demolishing people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Rhodes_(1480)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Acre_(1291)
>>47810120
elves would just not be very effective if we want to get all >real world
even heavy cavalry are only effective after combat has been joined by footmen, so the elves would have to engage like a typical battle; which were pretty much always just bloody attrition until one side breaks
in the end you wouldnt get many ancient experienced elves, they would all be dead, unless they have magic, in which-case the whole idea of set battles goes out the window
>>47810114
an advantage, but still limited by strength/stamina
a medieval knight in full plate would still lose to 3 guys with bronze age weapons if they didn't break
>>47810185
>Most battles
You know, I see what you're doing. I really do. And if you add the caveat of "Most non-siege battles" You'd be correct.
However you didn't do that, so I feel obligated to point out that the capital-fucking-V Vast majority of battles during the dark ages were sieges.
>>47810232
>even heavy cavalry are only effective after combat has been joined by footmen
The Poles say otherwise.
>>47810247
>see what you're doing
Making a point? Good, glad to see that my actions aren't totally cryptic and hidden from plain sight.
Jesus you dumb retards stop applying real life logic to fantasy settings.
>>47807318
Create a beautiful magical item. Lure them with temptations of power and knowledge. Curse them for their arrogance. The worst thing about living for centuries is living with your mistakes.
Take that ya pointy eared bastards.
>>47810185
not remotely, discipline and 'holding the line' has been a core concept of military discipline since recorded history, sure it broke down in some battles and they ended up being a mad free for all, but that wasn't typical and it certainly wasn't ideal from the commander's perspective
besides the point is can anyone win against elves, and the answer is yes, if they adopt proper military tactics, which involves formations and group combat
>>47810313
in LOTR it seems Elves only die of War and Depression, they got a lot of time to be emo
>>47810278
?
I don't think you understand what logic is. A fantasy setting isn't a setting absent of logic. A setting absent is abstract, surreal, and nonsensical. Like a landscape of legos ruled by talking pies.
All fantasy settings have logic with a handful of logical exceptions - dragons can sustain flight, magic is real, etc.
To say "don't apply logic" shows that you really don't understand what logic is.
>>47810342
Watch how it works Sunday at
Battle of the Bastards
>>47810278
>They're talkin sense about mah fantasy!
What are you even doing here?
>>47807318
>They live for centuries
>this is unique apparently
>>47810372
>Like a landscape of legos ruled by talking pies
I'm steeling that
>>47810441
Nobody cares that you steal a pile of shit.
>>47810381
>tfw invincible Ramsay effortlessly beats the incompetent hero's armies
>until the darkest moment when LIttlefinger shows up with a huge army of armored knights and saves the day
I'll eat a fucking sock if it doesn't happen exactly like that. The 'good guys' always job to fucking Ramsay because the writers only allow Dany and Ramsay to be competent at anything (which in turn makes them competent at fucking everything). But of course Jon needs to win for the plot to work, so there'll be a lazy deus ex machina cavalry charge to resolve that.
>>47810511
Please don't use pro-wrestling terminology. It makes you look like a prancing la la homo faggot.
>>47810511
Yes exactly like that because Snow sends a mob against a larger disciplined force with shield wall tactics
>>47810232
>a medieval knight in full plate would still lose to 3 guys with bronze age weapons if they didn't break
Nah. A knight with fullplate and a proper weapon like a polearm or a large two handed sword would have a massive advantage.
>>47810606
>large two handed sword
such as?
>>47807318
Fucktons of experience painting, making poetry and playing pretty pretty princess.
Elven armies, when such things can overcome the races inherent chaotic inability to organize, rarely take the field. They sit back and moralise about how it either isn't their issue or how they shouldn't have to clean up other race's issues.
Oh, and with their long lives and love of living so long, they are pretty cowardly... such long lifespans and such fragile bodies... and they know it.
>>47807955
>You mean the Eldar that dominated the galaxy before commiting suicide by Chaos God, and can take on SMs one-to-one?
Most eldar eat great big piles of shit when you put them up against marines of the same type in a 1v1.
>>47810342
>discipline and 'holding the line'
You're using vagaries and popular thought to justify your argument, when the fact of the matter is, while the men remained in a unit, the front-lines where everyone was fighting more-often-than-not was the site of men not fighting in rank, and lines getting mixed.
Even during the Roman Empire, the Legionaries practiced and even fought in skirmishing formations, where they weren't "tightly packed cubes".
http://www.roman-empire.net/army/skirmishing.html
>>47810732
>I have no fucking clue what discipline means in a military context.
Don't feel bad, neither do most elves.
>>47807318
Reminds me of something Keith Baker said on his blog.
You know how elves are only considered adults at about 100 and therefore a first level elf fighter is equal in skill to much younger first level human fighter?
His explanation was that elven culture is super fixated on tradition and perfectionism. So an elven fighter doesn't just learn a fighting style, he masters the exact movements to the utmost level of accuracy, perfectly mimicking the style as practised by it's original creator. They take years and years to learn the basic moves perfectly before they're ever allowed to progress onto the advanced moves. So an elven fighter's style is "perfect" whereas a human fighter is merely good enough. But the elven fighter isn't actually any better at fighting, because elven teaching techniques are pointlessly perfectionist and it takes five times as long to learn anything.
>>47810694
And since when war is about 1v1?
>>47810758
>I have no fucking clue what I'm arguing about lol
Discipline doesn't make you a Richard Marcinko. Discipline doesn't make you a Germanicus.
Fucking idiot.
>>47807318
Elven birthrates are incredibly low, and they probably take a while to train their soldiers.
So the way to go is simply outnumbering the knife-ears.
>>47807318
Bullet to the face
They're probably not so tough out of their element. However excellent a unit of men are, they are still susceptible to casualties from missiles, disease, and the push of battle. For Elves those losses are irreplaceable, so while they could probably crush an enemy army two or three times, after that they would start having trouble replacing the losses.
Logically, the Elves' only way to counter that is to end their wars as quickly as possible, or to do so much damage to their opponents' infrastructure and population that they cannot replenish their losses either. Elves pushed to an offensive war would be an apocalyptic event, they would kill every man woman and child they encountered without pity or hesitation, operating under a "knits make lice" paradigm that, while savage, would make perfect sense to them. The difference between a human child and another soldier is the blink of an eye, so why spare them?
What is the counter to this? How do you catch an army of immortal woodland-people who don't sleep? So long as they are on the offensive and can simply run away and burn another village every time you appear on the horizon, they're winning. It would take great fieldcraft and multiple, coordinated armies to corner an elvish host to force them to battle--and even that would be no guarantee of victory, that just means that now you actually get to fight them instead of burying all of the people they killed on their rampage through your country.
If you forced them into a defensive war it might be easier, but invading Elf-Country sounds like hell.
>>47807661
>not liking HFY
>>47810963
Or to, ya know, try and remain as neutral as possible.
>>47810979
I'm not a fat/lanky neckbeard manchild that has to somehow feel proud of being born a fucking human because I have nothing else to be proud about, sorry.
>>47810979
99% of HFY is autistic as fuck tho.
>>47811022
Neutrality is best backed with the threat of terrible violence should it be violated. After the second or third time the Elves depopulate Germany, people would stop invading them. They obviously don't benefit from starting wars, so there would be an uneasy peace.
>>47811063
99% of everything is autistic as fuck. HFY just has the unfortunate disadvantage of being thinly veiled Ethno-Nationalism, and thus out of fashion in the decadent moral wasteland of modern liberal democracy.
>>47811091
I'm not really a stereotypical liberal, I just think neckbeards jerking off over A-AND DEN WE SHOT DUH ALIUMS/ELVES is sad and pathetic as fuck.
>muh elvin craffsmonship
Dwarves do it better
>muh elvin majik
Anti-Magic Field
Dead/Wild Magic Zone
Psionics
>muh longevity
Clone.
>>47808665
Sounds boring tbqh
>>47811153
I know. What I mean is that even the stuff which would be considered passable if the subject matter were different leaves an eternal taste of cringe because it is intrinsically socially unacceptable. And what sort of people write about socially unacceptable things? Often people who lack self awareness. So the proportion of shit to quality is higher.
A good example that people often bring up is that online Salvation War thing, which, while admittedly decent milfic, is just so goddamn fedora it makes me want to grow a beard and convert to Islam.
>>47809567
>Except Zwiehanders are literally on-record for having pierced plate armor.
Yes, by half-swording, not slashing at the armor like an idiot.
>>47808695
First of all Fingolfin fought a hilariously weakened Morgoth that was confirmed to be about as strong as the Sauron fought by Elrond and Isildur
Second, he didn't lose because he got tired, he lost because he took a misstep and Morgoth literally tore his body apart. Morgoth was making fucking CRATERS with Grond, it's literally stated that the duel consisted on Fingolfin dodging everyting and occasionally attacking
Third, Hurin and Turin exist. Turin is downright described as far stronger than any elf, and his father is even stronger.
>>47810674
Take a wild guess
>>47811063
99% of /tg/ is autistic as fuck, though
>>47811038
Sorry to hear you hate fun, anon.
>>47811223
I said penetrated.
And if the armor was of lesser quality, it most certainly could be cut through.
Or do you really think a steel two-handed sword wouldn't cut through an iron breast plate?
>>47809567
We have some dubiously substantiated reports of people with sword cutting through helmets, from time to time (William the Conquerer was famous for cutting someone's head and helmet in half one time) but we don't know how much of that was a result of preexisting damage to the armor, poor quality, or simple luck. These also tend towards the earlier part of history rather than the later.
I'm generally of the mind that it is possible to injure or even kill a man in armor with a sword-blow if you get a really good position. The Japanese had an entire sport called Kabutowari where they would try to cut helmets in half, so we know it was at least possible to damage them, but getting a guy in the right position to hit him with maximum force square on the noggin would then be the principle part of killing him--at which point, you might as well be trying to attack the gaps in the armor with the point.
>>47811345
Not him but I'd love to see your evidence for that because I can smell the bullshit from this far away
>>47811331
Nah. A bunch of losers that probably couldn't even endurance hunt your average deer let alone do a few pullups or benchpress their bodyweight jerking off over their shitty species being better than imaginary species isn't very fun to me.
>>47811387
>their
Alien detected
>>47811345
Could've fooled me.
A sword might bent or heavily dent the plate but cutting through iron is a bit of a stretch. Unless you buy into the "nippon steel folded over one thousand times" meme, but then you're beyond helping.
>>47811387
>their
Are you trying to imply you're not a member of Homo S. Sapiens?
>>47811440
Don't worry about it, anon
>>47809567
You haven't read Tolkien. Not a day in your life. You're also very ignorant about folklore.
>>47811485
Ha ha don't worry about it anon, it's fine
When it takes 30 years for an elf to become potty trained I don't think elf parents want to raise more than one or two children in their extremely long lives.
There is a belief that skill as a fighter scales indefinitely with experience, when in reality, combat between humans (and by extension, humanoid primates in fantasy settings) is very much limited by biology and extremely dangerous for both people, even if one is way more experienced. Whether its a 1v1 or huge battle, there are so many ways you can get caught off your guard or make a mistake and fuck yourself over. Fantasy depictions of combat often glorify the situation and portray 1 guy taking on 10 enemies, but real combat is no where close that silly nonsense.
Elves might be faster and more experienced, but a bunch of larger, tougher humanoids who often wear heavier armour can still easy wreck them (thought they might suffer more losses, doesn't matter, humans breed like rabbits).
>>47811454
>>47811383
>doesn't know the basics of physics
Carbon steel, the kind used in sword-making, has an objectively higher hardness rating compared to wrought iron.
They can make the armor rounded to better absorb the blow and cause it to glance off it, but if it's a direct hit, well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz_CBcxzOFk
If the hardness of the metal for the weapon you're using is harder than the metal being used for the armor, physics dictates that the defender loses automatically.
>>47811694
That's only 20 gauge steel by the way.
>>47811660
>implying humans bread like rabbits
How's that infant death rate of 3/10ths and maternal death rate of 1/10 for you. :^)
>>47811741
>Implying rabbits don't have high mortality rates themselves
<:^)
>>47811694
Most armor isn't a flat, square piece of steel being held at both sides. I appreciate the effort googling though.
>>47811787
>implying rabbits don't have pregnancies of 30 days and liters of between 4-12
>implying they have the bullshit amount of natural complications human women have
>>47811822
>implying humans aren't just savage animals next to elves.
I'm surprised the thread has gone on this long and no one has referenced Burning Wheel.
>>47811852
>: ^ )
Seriously though, I'm fucking pissed at these HFY idiots who don't know anything about human pregnancy claiming humans breed like rabbits.
>>47811822
>Implying that I was implying something that I wasn't implying
>Implying that metaphors have to be interpreted literally
<=]:^)
>>47811694
Cutting an angled breast plate and cutting through someone's armor are two completely different things.
As far as cutting through body armor goes, you're shit out of luck unless you have really high grade industrial steel, something that does not exist in the same time frame as iron armor.
>>47811915
Sure, humans might breed like rabbits when compared to elves, but that fucking doesn't mean human populations are at the same rate, if we are talking about normal "DnD elves" and not eternal, one or two children forever, type of elves. There is a difference between thirty days and nine months afterall.
>>47811660
Humans generally aren't stronger than elves, they're just more robust. I also don't know about heavier armor, elves are very often depicted with plate or mail, they're probably just as well armored as humans are on the whole, unless you're talking about the woodsie type.
There's a reason elves have allegedly small populations. It's because they're not actually masters at everything, just that they only show off their most elite and skillful to the world and hide the vast majority of their population who are no more skillful than humans. Ever wondered why dwarves hate elves? It's because elves are taking up valuable underground realty hiding %95 of their population in vast underground gardens and cities protected by the best magic 10,000 moderate level wizards can sustain.
>>47812002
>Sure, humans might breed like rabbits when compared to elves, but that fucking doesn't mean human populations are at the same rate
>but that fucking doesn't mean human populations are at the same rate
>human populations are at the same rate
>at the same rate
Does everyone with Aspergers interpret similes and metaphors literally like you do?
>>47809732
Armor brochacherino, is work hardened via hammer or otherwise. Or, actually gets worked over a low-set and wide bank of hot coals, usually getting heat treated in some way. Either imbuing a spring temper, or a carbon-enrichment of some form that results in a legitimate hardness rating of some sort.
That shit from the "hurrdurr I like MYFAROG channel" is basically cutting simple untouched stockyard shitty sheet metal. I could do that with fuckin' tin snips or a half-assed chisel from a four dollar pack. No comparison to actual armor.
>>47812049
>implying
The fucking problem is you fucktards use a simile as a talking point on why your fantasy humans are oh so super special.
>elves are more skilled/perhaps slightly better physically or mentally
>lol humans can outbreed them like rabbits
Sure, elves need to conserve their losses due to humans having higher birth rates... WHICH THEY CAN DO THROUGH FUCKING STRATEGY, TACTICS, AND SKILL, or essentially you believe the way elves surpass their lack of numbers is how humans will "ultimately drown them down."
Essentially, I'm attacking you because HFY threads are mindless garbage and you should be shot. At the very least dorf bros have a sense of humor.
>>47811804
>Most armor isn't a flat, square piece of steel being held at both sides
So swords, made for hitting, are incapable of hitting armor is what you're saying? Or does it just magically glance off 100% of the time?
>>47811955
>Cutting an angled breast plate and cutting through someone's armor are two completely different things.
>>47811694
>They can make the armor rounded to better absorb the blow and cause it to glance off it, but if it's a direct hit, well.
>As far as cutting through body armor goes, you're shit out of luck unless you have really high grade industrial steel, something that does not exist in the same time frame as iron armor.
The "fully plate armored knight" wearing layers high grade steel with chain and gambeson underneath wasn't occurring till the late 14th century, and beyond. That's the point that they just started using can-openers like Halberds and war pick's to penetrate through them.
But as I was saying, if the sword is a harder metal, and has the proper mass to cut through it, it will. Doesn't matter what you argue.
>>47812201
I see you love spouting shit about things you know nothing about
There's no shame in presenting yourself as a layman rather than trying to look knowledgeable when your sources are guesswork and shitty youtube videos that don't even adress the actual problems
>>47807519
>they usually spend a lot longer doing everything, so they have proportional experience to a human just over a longer time scale.
This is the stupidest shit.
>A race of personified human perfection, with long ears
Vs
>The imperfect human race that spawned the imaginary elf race
Yeah. Wonder why this entire topic is bullshit.
>>47812237
>There's no shame in presenting yourself as a layman rather than trying to look knowledgeable when your sources are guesswork and shitty youtube videos that don't even adress the actual problems
Ironic, since I've been the only one providing sources outside of "shitty" anecdotal evidence.
Sorry you're just too much of a dipshit to actually read into anything regarding, ya know, FACTS.
Go be an autistic fuck else-where, I don't give a shit about retards who get angry because they're disprove by someone so they just disregard them.
>>47807912
Small population countries have fought and beat large population countries before. Population isn't a good predictor.
>>47812261
The problem is that your source is a youtube video of a guy cutting a bit of sheet metal with a bronze sword
You have yet to provide any actual evidence that people slicing through iron armor was something that happened in the real world. Even worse is your apparent claim that it can be reliably done
>>47812197
I'm not a HFY type at all. If anything, the idea of humans winning through weight of numbers makes us look like vermin. In most films and TV, the side with small numbers but high skill and valour is the side we glorify (it is why the last stand is the favoured heroic battle in popular culture). I don't see how us crushing other races beneath the weight of our numbers, in spite of being individually inferior, is HFY material... it actually seems extremely depressing.
>>47812201
You're painfully retarded.
The "high grade steel" was with regards to the weapon, not the armor. I see you've given up trying to actually argue and are now misrepresenting facts. A sword will not cut through any decent grade of steel under most reasonable circumstances. There's a reason swords fell out of favor as anti-armor weapons, after all.
>>47812298
>namefag
>calling others autistic
![lal337194[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/jZlKcpC.jpg "lal337194[1].jpg")
>>47812324
I've posted other sources in this thread, regarding the Zweihander. Sorry you're blind.
Right, maybe I should just start posting murals from the period where they show men slashing at men in CHAIN and wearing BUCKET HELMETS with SWORDS.
>>47812439
Ah, murals, the top source for accurate historical information
>>47812337
Ah, I see, and actually rather agree with you. I just got mad because that is the usual purpose of that phrase.
>>47812415
>The "high grade steel" was with regards to the weapon, not the armor. I see you've given up trying to actually argue and are now misrepresenting facts
No shit Sherlock, I simply ignored that comment because of how fuck-all stupid it was.
And here's a fun fact, those "high grade industrial steel" blades you're referring to are largely made using the same exact techniques that were used about 1,000 years ago, albeit in more manageable environments with more reliable equipment.
In fact, the Chinese were already using blast furnaces to mass produce steel and iron by 2nd century BC! Well shieeet, WE WUZ HIGH INDUSTRIAL GRADE STEEL?
>>47812481
>murals
LOL, SO INNACCURATE
>historian journals
MEH, NOT INTERESTED LOL
>physical video evidence
LOL, JUST SUM GAY YOUTUBER
You're a faggot, enjoy being muted.
Skelefuck is a dimestore Virt knockoff.
Just ignore, don't engage, and he slinks off.
>>47812552
No, a mural showing some guys drawing their swords doesn't mean you can cut through iron armor. No, a youtube video of a dude cutting sheet metal does not prove it either.
I must have missed the journals, but then I wonder why you aren't simply quoting those.
>>47812584
Reminder for the thread:
Faggot anon got butthurt about being a wand jockey and getting called out for being so.
Just don't reply, and he'll leave in a huff.
>>47812529
Just keep shifting those goalposts, buddy. You'll get far in life by doing so.
I'm out of here.
>>47812619
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osTQrJ_axfc
4:00
History Channel saying that you can cleave right through chainmail with a Falchion? Hmmm, must be bullshit because someone says so.
>>47812655
Okay you must be baiting now
We were not talking about mail, and even IN THE VIDEO ITSELF they mention that a rapier (that you also didn't specify) doesn't do well against plate. Instead they show how you can use a different type of sword WITH A THRUSTING MOTION (not slicing).
>>47812648
>shifting those goalposts
Care to be specific about how exactly I'm shifting goalposts in terms of the entire argument that's at hand here?
>I'm out of here
Oh, okay, I see.
>You'll get far in life by doing so.
Go on, keep running away, I'm sure you'll get far in life by doing so.
>>47812719
Just stop replying to the reject, and he goes away. Seriously, this isn't hard, mate.
>>47812738
You're right, into the filter he goes
>>47812774
Cheers.
>>47812719
>We were not talking about mail, and even IN THE VIDEO ITSELF
Well, you said "iron armor", and "iron armor" doesn't explicitly mean "plate armor."
P.S. I was mocking you. May seem a bit hard to comprehend, but all the arm-chair historians on here constantly remark about how chainmail was "completely impenetrable", and yet historians objectively disagree with that statement.
The FACT is, the late gothic plate which you're referring to was of equal hardness of the blades being used, which is why only a couple hundred fully armored knights were considered "impenetrable."
It's why people still preferred Bronze over Iron for a good length of time, Bronze was harder than wrought iron
http://www.ancient.eu/bronze/
It was more capable of cutting and penetrating through armor.
>>47812738
>>47812774
>>47812791
Did you really use tabbed browsing with a proxy just to samefag yourself?
Do you really think /tg/ is that active? This is some next level autism.
>>47812738
I don't think I've ever BTFO out someone as hard as I have for you, lol.
Man, you've got some high-functioning ass-burgers to be this peeved at being told off about melee classes against magic.
>>47812774
Ignore him, he comments that in every thread because gave reasons as to how melee classes are still viable in 3.5 and he lost his collective shit.
Quite frankly, I'm surprised people have such easy control over you.
>>47808665
>Things that Never Happened: The Post
![Elves-claus-noel-jeffrey-mandel-1989-poster[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Y9MJoqz.jpg "Elves-claus-noel-jeffrey-mandel-1989-poster[1].jpg")
>>47813141
>>47809095
>see: utter shit
Any alternatives?
>>47807900
Because if a metal is so weak that it can be slashed apart, it wouldn't be used to make plate. You never saw people making armor out of tin, even if it was the only material they had, and if steel in that setting is not!tin in comparison to all these metals that can cut it, it probably wouldn't be used for all those other tasks that real steel is used for either, and would have its role replaced by whatever fantasy material was the closest equivilent in performance.
>>47813222
>Because it's weak to this one, super rare thing, but totally ok against the vast majority of what it'll go against?
>That means it would NEVER be used!
You stupid fucking faggot.
>>47812655
>chainmail
I hate to step into this, but wasn't the arguement about iron breastplates/plate mail?
>>47813256
It's obviously not super rare if the elves have enough of it to equip their entire army with.
See all the nations beaten by the Hitties for what happens when you don't adapt to the latest materials because "it's too rare". If elf-steel can cut through your! steel, then you either try and get some elf-steel yourself or just throw the armour out when fighting them like everyone else did when rifles started to consistantly punch through it.
>>47813161
>check the plot summary
This can't be real
What the fuck
Who would make this
>>47813361
>When fighting THEM
You're going to be fighting them a minority of the time. Against everyone else, you still want that fucking plate.
>>47809641
It depends on the setting on which are which.
Technically speaking "Human" refers to the full range of homo-neanderthalis, homo-floresiensis, and a dozen other subgroups of being that almost never get represented in fantasy because their niches are too silmilar to existing humans or another race: h-floresiensis is merely another small person group on top of gnomes/fairies/dwarves/halflings/brownies; there's enough different groups you could make your own setting using nothing but small-people races, with keebler elves being the setting's...elves.
>>47813361
Which was in hindsight a dumb idea as plate armor was really only "ineffective" at blocking gunfire from the period between the 1920s to the 70s, and after a while of experimenting it got back to the point it could reliably block bullets, hence why soldiers are armored today.
Do you know how many lives could have been saved if people had not thrown away helmets for tricornes/kepis/other useless hats that didn't do squat against shell splinters?
>>47809732
>>47810185
>>47810868
>>47813014
>>47813161
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgHNtzxO0y8
>>47813758
Plates that can stop bullets also need to be much thicker(and therefor much bulkier and heavier) than traditional plate armor, anon.
Just poison their trees.
>>47807318
Smoke them out, burn them all.
