Who is the greater author?
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Who is the greater author?
>>47521709
Tolkein
Neither of them wrote a traditional game.
>how new are you
>autistic
>butthurt
Read it.
>>47521730
/tg/ has traditionally had consistent tolkien discussion threads though
>>47521709
Tolkien.
Tolkien wrote a story that has persisted for 80 years, has been reprinted multiple times, and has inspired legions of fans. It is a story about classical themes, such as friendship and good versus evil. At no point did he require shock deaths or a character list rivaling a history textbook to try and hold the audience's attention. It was a coherent plot that ultimately built to a definitive conclusion.
A Song of Ice and Fire is the exact opposite of all that.
Tolkien's writing style reflects that he was a classically schooled scholar, whilst Martin's writing style resembles an abnormally eloquent teenage edgelord.
>>47521788
A typical good versus evil story can be fine, but I appreciate stories that explore the gray parts of human nature as well. Also, Tolkien's writing style is odd. He focuses a lot on things that ultimate don't matter, which makes his works a chore to read through sometimes.
>>47521775
The rule is written. It doesn't prevent a thing from happening, but the fact that it happens doesn't mean it's not breaking a rule.
You are not discussing traditional games based on the works of authors. You are discussing the authors themselves.
>>47521815
Martin never really explores the good parts of human nature. He explores the black parts in excessive detail, but on the rare occasion he throws in a little bit of light, it is immediately crushed and torn apart by the never ending grimdark. His stories have much of the Grimdark of 40k, with none of the awesome of having great heroes performing feats of amazing strength, skill, or endurance to balance it out.
>>47521815
>things that ultimately don't matter
sure, let's talk about the sex scenes with no plot weight at all...
>>47521823
I don't see you complaining about the axe thread, or the numerous "stat me" threads. What is it about this thread that is especially egregious compared to all the other off topic things that you are perfectly willing to tolerate?
Howard.
>>47521834
Gee, it's almost like he's portraying a fantasy world whose workings are painfully close to our own world.
>>47521730
You can't inb4 your own post.
Also, inb4ing doesn't make it wrong when people call you autistic.
But I will thank you for my daily reminder that I'm not you.
Charles Dickens.
>>47521709
GRRM is the better author, Tolkien is the greater author.
>>47521878
What in Christ's name are you talking about?
>>47521839
What makes you think I didn't report them?
You already know those things are off topic, or else you wouldn't have mentioned them, so a reminder of the rule is not needed in those cases.
I still see people in this thread claiming that real life people are a traditional game. They must be corrected.
>>47521709
Tolkien. Came up with languages, gigantic history for his stories so they have real depth, not edgy even though he took part in the most soul crushing war ever waged in modern times.
>>47521709
I'm so happy I get to post this on /tg/. Never in my wildest dreams did I think it could be true.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAAp_luluo0
Tolkien's work, unlike that of Martin, is not pure genre fiction. Now, I think Martin is good as far as genre fiction goes, but it hit's the limits pretty hard.
Martin creates a relatively compelling, highly consistent and very complex fictional world and like most similar fiction authors basically banks on the fact that after a while, the combination of consistency and build investment into the settings will sustain the reader and keep him interested. It's a solid strategy: you know the world and the characters, you know the rules, you familiarized yourself with the setup, you are more likely to continue reading.
Tolkien, on the other hand, looked for a bit more ambitious goal. He wanted to recreate the type of old, fundamental mythological narrative that he found in old north european epics and translate it into a more understandable, modern language. And he succeeded at that, which is truly remarkable. Mythological narratives are profound things, extremely important and very likely deeply connected with basic human psychological and cognitive structures, and translating those into a non-mythological language is really an achievement that very few people managed to pull off. Tolkien was one of the very few. That makes his contribution to literature so much more valuable than Martin's in my book.
>>47521709
> a guy who takes jabs at the standards
> the guy who set the standards
gee, idk!
>>47521852
The worst part is, I think this might actually not be intended as bait.
>>47521709
Mervyn Peake
>>47521986
Like it or not, there aren't any great heroes battling evil in our real world. There are only people working for their own selfish interests, and ultimately the only thing that makes right is might. This isn't edge, it's realism.
>>47521858
>>47521972
>>47521990
>I'll cleverly circumvent OP's post by introducing a THIRD author!
>>47522003
Nope it's edge. People are in it for their own interests but also for the sake of promoting good. The only reason there's not a lot of fighting evil is because there's just not that much of it to fight.
I hope that after I die people use my book covers rather than my mugshots to intice people to talk about me.
I honestly never know who these threads are about until reading part way through.
I guess I still have that petulent desire to leave the author faceless.
There's a certian amount of mystique lost in the process.
...On second thought, being remembered at all would be more than I can hope for.
>>47522021
Then who is Mr Rogers?
>>47522029
Mr. Rogers isn't evil you noamy cunt.
>>47522003
>This isn't edge, it's realism.
Realism, ironically enough, is a pretty inaccurate way of looking at the world, as the whole realistic literature fad had taught us back about a century ago. Although to be honest, that point might be misplaced because what you described isn't realism, it's jaded perspective of an inexperienced kid, especially the whole "only thing that makes them right is might" line which really sounds like something a 14 years old would say in an attempt to sound profound.
>>47522029
A saint.
Sad but true. More of one than many.
>>47521709
GRRM is a hack. 95% of his characters are caricatures of mustache twirling villains, and the remaining 5% are caricatures of Lawful Stupid, plus a couple of children, which he's convinced is a synonym for "retard."
>>47521986
Moralistic Zealot.
>>47522042
>>47522040
God damn it, I meant to reply to:
>>47522003
>>47522003
Realistically, most people are good people who want to make the world better. They just disagree on how to do that and typically fuck things up because they can't come to a reasonable consensus.
>>47522021
What's considered good is only a mix of culture and evolutionary psychology which promote the survival and proliferation of your own genes. Ultimately you're working for your own self-interests, as dictated by your genes and environment. There are no such things as higher morals, it's all about power and nothing else.
>>47522089
Okay Dawkins. Go write another book.
>>47522089
>There are no such things as higher morals, it's all about power and nothing else.
Yup, that's an edge.
>>47522077
>most people are good people who want to make the world better
I don't believe that for one second. Most people want a world where they imagine they themselves would do better, and then try and rationalize it by telling themselves that it would be a better world for the people around them as well. Why do you think so many married women advocate for a freer market, while single women advocate for an ever increasing welfare state? Because both are working to improve their own standing. The married woman doesn't want the state to take resources away from the man because she relies on him, while the unmarried woman relies on the state to extract other men's wealth and give it to her. Both rationalize it by telling themselves that they're working for the betterment of society as a whole, but ultimately they're only working for their own narrow self-interests.
>>47522125
Not that anon, but you are discounting that people do naturally feel guilt cause of herd-instinct and all that.
So while people may be self-interested, they do take things like guilt and familial ties into account, unless they can justify to themselves that those things don't matter
>>47522170
Chauvinistic mysogeny and edge fedora-lordism in the same post. Congrats.
>>47521730
Warhammer Lotr is /tg/ therefore it's lore is /tg/
Game of thrones has boardgames and card games. It's lore is /tg/.
>>47522089
The funny thing is that it's precisely the two fields: studies of culture, and studies of evolutionary psychology, that both prove you completely and utterly wrong. You have clearly understood or studied neither in any aspect.
Go read Tomasello's "Why we cooperate", anything by Dan Sperber, or anything by Jordan Peterson. Evolution equips us for complex and universalistic moral capabilities, role of society and culture exists specifically to mitigate the concept of self-interest (which by the way, does not work the way you think, because "self-interest" does not mean the same as selfishness, even Dawkins recognizes this with his concept of gene-centric evolution). We have - evolutionary conditioned - capacity of such amazing feats as complex symbolic cognition, agent neutral perspective, fairness-recognition capacity.
Power is a laughably stupid and meaningless, shallow understanding of the processes that shape evolution. Marxists, feminists, critical theoreticists believe that everything is about "power". One thing they all share together is a profound hatred of all things related to evolutionary psychology, cognitive sciences, neuro-sciences.
>>47521709
Tolkien.
How is this even a question?
>>47522170
>Most people want a world where they imagine they themselves would do better, and then try and rationalize it by telling themselves that it would be a better world for the people around them as well.
Most people behave according to incredible complex cultural and evolutionary models that exist independently of individual for thousands of years. You have no fucking clue what is actually at play when we talk about moral reasoning in humans. Like, not a fucking clue.
>>47522230
>How is this even a question?
millennials
>>47522218
Nowhere in this post did you point out exactly where I was wrong.
>>47521815
Are you saying Martin doesn't go into excruciantingly long descriptions that lead no where? Let me tell you about boats.
Yes. Boats.
When you put a character in a boat, he has to leave point A, get to point B. He might fight pirates or a kraken on the way, he might get sea sick, or homesick, he might get captured by pirates or the ship sinks and he wakes in a desolated island. The thing is, those are boats (in any story not focused on boats that is).
A good author won't waste 200 pages and 5 chapters in a boat trip unless his book is a nautic novel. You get in the boat in a chapter, you might even have a whole chapter to portray the hardships of boating, and then you get off the damn boat.
When tyron got into a fucking boat, we had to suffer through useless, contentless, uninteresting page after page of bored sea-dwarfism. And that, my friend, isn't what GRRM does with just boats. Everytime someone goes somewhere in a song of ice and fire, the journey is long, boring and pointless, described in details that are repetitive. You pick a GRRM martin book and they are superthick. But they are not full of content. Actual content. The things a reader wants. They are not filled with poetic prose and good pacing. They are fillers. 90% of that is sawdust, only 10% is meat.
GRRM is like dragonball z, in a way. Where you have 20 minutes of talking, BORING talking, to each minute of fighting because it's all fillers. If you read the books, you know that to be true.
>>47521906
So what you're saying is, OP has a contender for biggest faggot?
>>47522230
It's summer
>>47522280
>Let me tell you about boats
Oh boy, here we go.
>>47522218
Except that studies can't stop you from being put up against the wall and shot. Power can,a and it can put you up against the wall and shoot you.
Ideals=/=reality.
>>47522274
>Nowhere in this post did you point out exactly where I was wrong.
Actually, it is there: your idea of "self interest" as well as the specific means that evolution shapes us are between insanely simplistic, and flat out wrong. Explaining how these things really work is completely beyond the possible scope of /tg/ discussion, which is also why I provided references to authors to further study. Why we cooperate is a thin book, you should probably start there.
You quite literally view evolution as "being a selfish asshole doing everything you can to improve your standing". This is, quite literally, a perspective that Darwin himself REPEATEDLY stressed out to be entirely wrong understanding of how evolutionary theory really operates. Virtually all further research done on this aspect further confirms this.
>>47522343
Nice strawman.
>>47522274
You'll find out where you were wrong when you do the research necessary to back up your claims, rather than just shit buzzwords out of your mouth. You were given a few good starting points.
>>47522333
AHAHAHAHA Jesus fucking Christ are you serious?!
God fucking dammit: how old are you? You should really stop talking about things you don't fucking know first thing about. Go read some Solzhenitsyn on top of the authors I've provided, then we can talk about the relation between power, truth, ideas and reality.
Until then, I strongly recommend keeping your mouth shut while the grown up's talk.
>>47521709
Bait thread
>>47521730
>>47521770
Best posted
Everything else doesn't matter and this thread should be purged
>>47522003
>Angsy teen-tier cynism
>"It's realism"
No anon, that's shit writing in full galore
>>47522359
Do you even know what the words "straw man" mean? You really are one pathetic little fuck.
>>47522018
Yes, that's what those posts do. Well spotted! You're really astute.
>>47521937
basically this
GRRM is enjoyable and thrilling with his plots, but there is not much behind it, worldbuilding is bland and shallow, fantasy elements are quite meh, and i don't mean the power lvl (I actually love low fantasy) but general feel and atmosphere.
>>47521840
Howard's shit writer.
Had good ideas, that were latter developed by third parties, but as far as he goes for actual writing style, plots (mostly plain and not really interesting) and characters (like, nobody cares about other characters than the main one, who, be it Conan, Kull, or Bran or other fucker, is pretty much a sue that is better than anyone else in the setting in basically everything that matters - every field where he's not the best guy around is generally treated as negative). Much of appeal of howard's work is actually appeal of works based and/or inspired by it, mostly visual arts like illustrations and movies, which gave his world a very strong and distinctive feel.
>>47522382
Jesus man, calm down. You used a straw man. No reason to get upset, that's just a common logical fallacy that I'd like to point out for you.
>>47521730
Yeah but neither are quest threads and guess which one of those two is more likely to leave.
>>47521730
>>47521823
>>47521906
>the rule is written
And nobody but you gives a shit
No point in following a rule if no one cares about it and wants the contrary
>>47522419
Don't want to break it for you, you fucktard, but quests got their own, brand new board now. So at least find new "argument" when trying to defend rule-breaking threads, you fucking cunt.
>>47522435
Are you an anarchist? Nothing can function without rules and a strict adherence to said rules.
>>47522435
>We shouldn't self-control ourselves, because there is set of rules
>Instead, unless banned, let's shitpost
/tg/ is cancer
No, wait.
Internet is cancer
>>47522214
>someone, somewhere, once made a traditional game about X, therefore all aspects of X are a traditional game
Do you really want to open that can of worms? Do you have any idea how many licensed card games exist?
>>47521709
The only good thing G.R.R. wrote was Plague Star and its sequel Tuf Voyaging.
THAT'S LITERALLY IT.
>>47522418
Except I did not. Not every paraphrase is a straw man, only those that change the nature of your opponents argument are.
Consider these statements:
>Ultimately you're working for your own self-interests, as dictated by your genes and environment. There are no such things as higher morals, it's all about power and nothing else.
>Both rationalize it by telling themselves that they're working for the betterment of society as a whole, but ultimately they're only working for their own narrow self-interests.
And tell me where I actually misrepresented those in my post.
>>47522003
>There are only people working for their own selfish interests
Ironically, it's this teenage angst that creates the sentiment in others.
>man, look at those people being selfish bastards
>I better be one myself!
>>47522390
OP posed a question on who's the better author between the two. He does not give a fuck about other authors because it is not about who the best author was, just who was better of those listed.
>>47522021
The greatest trick the devil ever played, was convincing the world he didn't exist.
Evil is quite real I see it every day and I'm just a beat cop.
>>47522464
Both those greentexts seem reasonable to me. Can you point out how they're incorrect?
Tolkien, by a margin wide enough as to make this comparison offensive, offensive like loudly broken wind in a quiet room.
>>47521895
I think he's talking about skill (better) and influence (greater).
I mean, he's WRONG, but I figure we should all be on the same page about him being wrong.
>>47521709
Martin is a much greater author.
At least if you measure by mass.
>>47522484
LITERALLY JUST DID THAT IN LIKE FOUR POSTS ALREADY.
Read:
>>47522343
>>47522218
>>47522442
>Are you an anarchist?
You don't need to be an anarchist to think a rule is shit and shouldn't be enforced in every scenario
>Nothing can function without rules
Correct
>and strict adherence to said rules
Top fucking kek
Guess we shouldn't look at individual cases anymore at all, people.
>>47522450
>actual discussion
>shitposting
>>47521709
Let's see.
>Writer who single handedly revives Anglo-Saxon mythology and how it interacts with fiction in English Literature.
Vs
>An American adding dragons into the War of the Roses after he read about it in a book.
>>47522536
This.
And then there's the whole point of Tolkien's prose being immeasurably beautiful and Martin's being kind of ugly yet servicable. It gets the job done and conveys meaning but does so with no flavour and certainly no beauty.
>>47522521
I don't see how those posts disprove anything. All you did was complain about Marxists and recommended reading a few authors.
>>47521730
Furry agenda detected
GRRM's stuff is good, but he got to popular for his editor to reign him in, and it shows in the last few books. It's also newer, and is more contemporary in language and style, so its more accessible. Getting someone into Tolkien can be a bit of a drag, because it was written almost a century ago, and we've moved on.
Also, Tolkien finished his damn story.
>>47522536
>revives Anglo-Saxon mythology
Isn't the majority of his works inspired by Norse mythology?
Using "great" in the sense of "large", Martin is obviously much greater. By which I mean that he's fat.
>>47522589
>Being this much of a pleb
Norse Mythology = Ango-Saxon pre-Christanity Mythology.
Much of Tolkien scholary work was on how the Northern mythologies and their writing was so similar and he pushed forward Beowulf as his example.
But if you want direct comparisons, Norse literature and folk tales make very few mentions of Dwarves, and when they do, they sound like Elves who live underground.
Anglo-Saxon folklore however has Dwarves being stocky hairy funny folk who fill the same role as Norse Dwarves.
Also Tolkiens Elves make very obvious use of the English "Fey" mythology brought forward by the Celtic roots. And indeed much of Tolkien brings forth comes from Celtic roots also.
Aragon being the perfect example of the non Franco-fied King arthur legend for example.
>>47522557
Then you are a moron. There is really nothing more to say here. If you don't understand how "everyone acts like a selfish asshole because evolution" is a completely misguided understanding of the actual process, I really don't fucking know what to tell you.
The idea of "self-interest" is completely fucking questionable on the basis of a gene-centric model of evolution, proposed by Dawkins and generally still considered a most effective and reasonable evolutionary model (if you don't know what it means, LOOK IT FUCKING UP YOURSELF).
The models that promote evolutionary advantageous behavior are also far more complex and in their majority deeply pro-social (READ THE FUCKING AUTHORS MENTIONED), with the individual and his motivations being largely irrelevant in the larger process, as those are mostly overriden larger, long term behavioral patterns usually coded in cultural form. As these behavior codes are pro-social, the "narrow individual interest" is actually the last thing that really matters in the long run.
Moral systems are an example of such complex cultural codes and behavioral patterns, and are directly related to human fitness, as they are the number one regulator of social behavior, while social behavior is our single most powerful evolutionary tool of survival.
The whole thing is pretty fucking complicated, which is again, why I refered to better authors that can actually explain these systems and process in great detail.
>>47522589
Anglo-saxon mythology has roots in Norse, coming into the British isles from the invasions.
I don't see the appeal in GRRM's books. It feels like he's trying too hard to push the whole 'EVERYTHING IS EVIL AND RAPEY LIKE MEDIEVAL TIMES REALLY WERE' angle, and it just ends up crossing the line into pointless shock-value and darkness induced apathy.
>>47522633
Actually it's the other way around.
Norse Mythology comes from Germanic Mythology which Angles and Saxons were older tribes at the time.
People seem to be forgetting Wodan and Tor. Or Odin and Thor, were worshipped before Rome even stuck it's head out of italy.
>>47522214
I guess there's nothing wrong with discussing the James Bond films, exclusively the films, not the game, on a traditional games board then.
And MLP since it has a card game and a roleplaying game, both officially licensed and produced by professionals, can't get more legit than that.
And Harry Potter, and Pokémon, and World of Warcraft, and pretty much anything that has a fandom, because someone somewhere will inevitably make a homebrew d20 system out of it.
Oh, and let's not forget LITERALLY ANY ANIME AND MANGA EVER because OVA exists. Let's just shut down /a/ now, it's clearly redundant.
Let's shut down /co/ too, because the existence of games based on comics and cartoons makes it okay to discuss comics and cartoons on a traditional games board.
Let's shut down /v/ and /tv/ and all the other media boards. And boards about real life such as /pol/ because real life can serve as inspiration for a traditional game.
Let's shut down /mu/ because "what music do you listen to during game sessions", and /ck/ because "what food do you eat during game sessions", and /toy/ because most toys can POTENTIALLY be used as tabletop miniatures if you so choose.
Let's just have one big board where literally nothing is off topic. That won't be inconvenient at all!
/tg/ - Literally Any Topic Imaginable
>>47522631
>"everyone acts like a selfish asshole because evolution"
Isn't there archeological evidence that even pre-civilisation there were cavemen expressing altruism, in the form of skeletons with signs of serious disabilities that nontheless lived into fairly old age?
>>47521709
Let's bring /mu/ here as well, so we get ourselves a nice cozy interboard gangbang action in this thread:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAAp_luluo0
>>47522621
What are some books I can read on this kind of folklore? My only experience with Anglo-Saxon mythology is Beowulf.
>>47522652
>>47522674
>Getting butthurt about one topic based on something /tg/ very much likes.
Why are you acting like such a fucking retard.
Are you autistic?
>>47522682
Yes, and?
>>47522652
You have seen the light sir. We don't even need the other boards anymore
>>47522654
I don't know much about such archeological findings, I don't know even what I'm supposed to think off when we say "pre-civilisation" (pre-tool-use?) but we do have examples of such behavior exhibited by countless animals species, it's absolutely nothing new. Altruism is part of a larger valid evolutionary strategy and can be explained many possible ways: "gene-centric" altruist adaptation propagation, kin structures and interests, emergence of abstraction and class-based thinking, "hidden" advantages... Altruism was never actually at odds with evolutionary theory. Especially not since we started thinking of cognition and behavior as genetic extensions.
>>47522652
>/tg/ - Literally Any Topic Imaginable
Yes, and?
Sure seems to work just fine
But hey, let's just forget that the actual "off-topic" things being discussed are of the fantasy genre and thus highly related to /tg/
Should we also delete all the worldbuilding threads?
>>47522631
I don't understand why the idea of people being selfish upsets you so much.
>>47522654
It's the old "everything comes back to enlightened self interest" argument, that claims compassion is a by product of selfishness.
It's stupid, but it's the only way they can reconcile their lack of understanding for what drives humans.
>>47522713
>Sure seems to work just fine
>fantasy genre and thus highly related to /tg/
>>47522722
Pray tell, oh wise sage, what is it that drives humans?
>the most obvious bait possible
>100+ replies
/tg/, we need to talk.
>>47522737
Shush, we are talking about evolution.
>>47522714
Different anon, but I've got short message for you - because it's fucking idiotic stance average, well-off teen with shitload of imaginary angst claims. It has no fucking relation to humanity as a species, because we are fucking herd animals, you dumb cock. It piss me off how people turned pretty recent, modern concept of extreme idividualism into something that in fact is supposedly "natural" and "normal" for humans. What the fuck?!
It's more like "kids are underexposured to human interaction" than "humans are evil and act selfishly"
>>47522737
why? It's business as usual.
>>47522676
The Problem is, and this is highlighted by Beowulf itself is;
Anglo Saxon mythology and Norse mythology are pretty much the same.
For example; Völsunga saga.
>>47521709
>Obvious bait thread
>/lit/
>Two hours of running time
>Still not purged
Can we finally get new janitors up and going?
>>47522737
It's nearing midnight in Oz, it's morning in the States... I put this down to it being a bank holiday weekend here in Bongland
>>47522695
>>47522724
Do you actually have anything of worth to say, or are you just gonna post pictures with a condescending facial expression?
>>47522749
>Anglo Saxon mythology and Norse mythology are pretty much the same.
Then what was that about Anglo-Saxon dwarfs being different from Norse dwarfs?
>>47521770
why isn't this deleted but if a post ">>>/qst/" on quest thread it gets deleted in seconds?
Why are quest threads the only systematically allowed out of their fucking containment board?
>>47522714
>I don't understand why the idea of people being selfish upsets you so much.
Stupidity pisses me off. And people justifying their stupidity by evolution is a concept that has fucked us in the ass enough times already. To slightly paraphrase Jordan Peterson:
"Stop using evolutionary theory as a whipping boy for your piss-poor philosophy."
It's fucking depressing to see that when we are quite literally on verge on some of the greatest discoveries and understandings about the nature of morality, cognition, epistemology, all of it through finally solid understanding of evolutionary theory and it's full implications, cretins like you just continue spread this bullshit doctrine about how it's cool to be a cunt because evolution.
Just don't fucking yap about evolution when you clearly don't fucking understand it, have enough fucking honesty to admit that you think it's fine to think of other people as cunts because you are happy being a cunt yourself.
Who is the greater author?
>>47522736
>Pray tell, oh wise sage, what is it that drives humans?
Need to survive. And it's pro-social behavior, rather than individualistic, that is the most efficient survival method in the fucking universe.
>>47522768
This mostly comes from Folklore recountings and wood carvings.
Norse don't really have much recounting for them, Dwarves are just Elves, Elves just look like people but magic, alot of their folklore links more to Trolls.
Germanic Folklore has Kobolds With Anglo-Saxons with Brownies and Goblins.
Germanic folklore puts more emphisis on these as trickster spirits or helpful spirits. Kobolds for example are shown to replace Iron in the ground with a fake metal ( Cobalt ) While Goblins would look over a house to keep it safe.
Depictions of Kobolds and Goblins typically come out as hairy fellows with big beards, where we get the design for Garden Gnomes from.
>>47522776
It's not cool to be a cunt, it's just that most people are cunts. How much social interaction have you had in your life? Thinking that people are what is traditionally viewed as good seems completely naive to me, and your rage is similar to that of a religious zealot upset over his dogma not being accepted at face value.
>>47522808
>Dwarves are just Elves
Not in the Prose Edda they ain't.
>>47522789
It's not even a question - of course Astrid. Tove was literall one-hit-wonder. Sure, Moomins are great, but there is nothing else coming from here. And they were boring as fuck to read when I was a kid, unlike Astrid's books, which were great back thenand suck flaccid cock when I'm adult. Still, Astrid wins with simple variety factor.
>>47522799
Then how do you explain niggers?
>>47522810
>it's just that most people are cunts
And that is mostly thanks to your dogshit phylosophy that you just won't stop spreading
Like I said before, the whole reason that "everyone is selfish" is because you make it so by promoting being selfish
>>47522835
Yeah? Prove it, tough guy.
>>47522761
/tg/ did not become the greatest board of all time by staying on topic
>>47522510
The most underrated post.
>>47522835
This
When will people finally learn that certain shit values are "popular" or "acceptable" or exists at all, because they just won't stop spreading their bullshit?
Tolkien by a country mile.
>>47522842
Basic biology, you cunt - we are herd animals with strong societal ties. And there is no fucking way you are going to deny it. You know what's not going to work for such model?
Being a cunt to everyone, because they will simply drop you.
Meaning you will die.
And your genes will die to, for lact of mate.
Nature in its finest
>>47521709
greater author and greater mass
>>47522842
Different anon, but I've got a better one - prove your point first, since you are making a really bold claim. Go on. It shouldn't be hard and after all you are the one making here edgy statements to sound mature, you fucking manchild.
>>47522860
But if everyone is a cunt, can anyone truly be said to be a cunt?
>>47522877
>Promoting cunt behaviour
And then they ask why this world is such a fucked-up place
>>47522884
>Here is me, dodging the questions with shitposting
>>47522003
10/10 I tip my feathered fedora to you, fellow edgelord
>>47522835
>Daily reminder people loved watching House
>Daily reminder people fucking hate meeting IRL people like House and for good fucking reason
And then Americans wonder why society is crumbling
>>47522900
But you've already said yourself that people are cunts, and that's somehow my fault, so what difference does my cuntery in a sea of cunts ultimately make? None. I will still procreate despite being a cunt, and my cunt genes will live on.
http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/george-r-r-martin-the-rolling-stone-interview-20140423?page=4
>Ruling is hard. This was maybe my answer to Tolkien, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with. Lord of the Rings had a very medieval philosophy: that if the king was a good man, the land would prosper. We look at real history and it’s not that simple. Tolkien can say that Aragorn became king and reigned for a hundred years, and he was wise and good. But Tolkien doesn’t ask the question: What was Aragorn’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine? And what about all these orcs? By the end of the war, Sauron is gone but all of the orcs aren’t gone – they’re in the mountains. Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles?
>The war that Tolkien wrote about was a war for the fate of civilization and the future of humanity, and that’s become the template. I’m not sure that it’s a good template, though. The Tolkien model led generations of fantasy writers to produce these endless series of dark lords and their evil minions who are all very ugly and wear black clothes. But the vast majority of wars throughout history are not like that.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3110466/Game-Thrones-creator-defends-rape-scenes-Author-says-dishonest-boring-leave-sexual-violence.html
>'But if you’re going to write about war, and you just want to include all the cool battles and heroes killing a lot of orcs and things like that and you don’t portray [sexual violence], then there’s something fundamentally dishonest about that.
how could one man be so based?
>>47522810
>It's not cool to be a cunt, it's just that most people are cunts.
First of all, no, they aren't. I can very safely say at this point that I've lived a lot longer than you, and met a lot more people than you. Most people aren't cunts, although the number of those who are is growing: and the reason why it's growing is, to a part, thanks to cunts like you, who actively advocate the whole "Him being a cunt justifies me being a cunt and after all it's natural for us all to be cunts." cycle.
Seriously, the absence of a greater, overarching moral model is not a natural or true state of humanity: it's a modern, insufferable invention of 20th century spoiled brats like you.
You are the naive person here, by the way. Nothing more naive and brazenly displaying lack of any fucking experience than stupid, broad generalizations like "most people are cunts", typically a result of a person being disappointed once in his life and then never paying any fucking attention to social world.
My main problem, however, is not so much in you being a little edgy faggot - nothing I can do about that - but with you justifying that shit with alleged "knowledge and experience" when you don't know even the most fundamental beginnings of the subject matter.
You know NOTHING about evolution, NOTHING about ethics as a discipline, and clearly nothing about basic social life as well.
Yet somehow, you are still trying to prove yourself as the "wiser and more experienced" one. What a fucking joke.
>>47522925
>You
>/tg/ is again a single person
>>47522842
Society is extremely individualistic nowadays, and it it also constantly promoting said individualism
I don't have to prove shit when it's all around you. Hell, you claim so yourself that it is all around you, as you say everyone's selfish. And you're also literally promoting said selfishness yourself
>>47522789
No fucking idea. I love moomins still as an adult, but Astrids stories were really memorable when I was a kid.
Both are amazing.
>>47522926
>fantasy must be realistic
wut
>>47522170
you don't have to believe it. Most people want a world where they imagine the world would be better, and then try and reconcile that with their more primitive needs and wants. Why do you think so many rich people advocate for socialism while so many rednecks want freer market? because both have different ideas of what is the best for the world and don't hang everything up on themselves. [pointless more detailed explanation of the obvious that I won't bother writing up an equivalent of because it's imlied]. Both gladly take the positives the, in their eyes unuust, system gives them, because they are not in full control of theri needs, often rationalizing it as "if I don't others will", but ultimately it goes against what they actually work towards.
Oh also women are terrible and when I get decieved by women it's because they don't use logic.
First 3 (or so) of GRRM's books weren't bad.
They had a plot that was possible to follow,actually likeable characters and sudden deaths were still new and shocking. Nobody knew who could be Snow's mother,who is Azor Azhai or what happened to Valyria.
And some time after War of the Five kings everyhthing went to shit.
Too many characters were introduced,with little to no personality, lack of actual plot has been filled with soap opera tier drama and sex scenes. Only the story of Greyjoys were good,but it's only because you can't fuck up a viking election
>>47522926
>baby orcs
SO THIS IS HOW IT FEELS TO BE TRIGGERED
>>47522925
Actually, he said that not all people are cunts. And with that in mind, you being a cunt does make a lot of difference.
>>47522926
>Based
>Bunch of bullshit appealing to edgelords
>>47522947
>>47522926
Was asking the same thing. "Oh, this setting has dragons, magic and undead in it, but leaving out sexual violence? Now that's just crazy talk in fantasy. How can you have fantasy where no abhorrent things happen? That's not realistic enough."
>>47522926
>Aragorn was a good and noble king, But how did he fair when X problem arose HRMMM?
I assume he resolved the issue in a good and noble manner.
I mean I know it's hard for Americans to understand what a monarchy does, but when the King is a Good King, the country does do well.
>>47522714
because it's not an evolutionarily favourable trait in a clan-building animal you illiterate dogmatist.
>>47522986
>setting has dragons, magic and undead in it
>instantly jumps to claims about realism
Martin is a dirty hippy liberal who did alternate service as a concencious objector during Vietnam and is anti-2nd Amendment.
>>47522810
>it's just that most people are cunts
I mean no they aren't.
>>47523001
Am I wrong?
>>47521834
Have you even READ a Song of Ice and Fire, or did you just watch the show?
>>47523003
>and is anti-2nd Amendment.
This is probably the FIRST good thing I ever saw about this guy.
>>47522230
You should never stop asking questions. For what it is worth I think Tolkien is overall the better author because not only is his work still widely available today in the hands of the general consumer, he also inspired generations of fantasy authors. Even Martin pays homage to tolkien in his work.
Martin's works however are clearly punching above the average for fantasy in a modern era and are a good and compelling read. I would say he would have been the closest to being the next Tolkien, which is a shame because he has gotten into the game so late and now lacks the time to really perfect his art.
Martin because his books trigger neoreactionary revisionists who think that the medieval ages were earthly paradise
>>47523012
Anon, focus for a while.
Setting is high-end fantasy and you are talking about realism of it. In high-end fantasy. Are you getting this or are too fucking dense this shit is not meshing together at all?
>>47523015
Different anon, but it's the show that puts more good in people that Martin EVER could
>>47523028
>who think that the medieval ages were earthly paradise
>>47522926
>he actually thinks Lord of the Rings was about war and war only
What a fucking retard holy shit
>>47522826
>Tove Jansson's works can be boring for children, but seem more endearing to adults
>Astrid Lindgren's works are loved by children, but are a bit too hamfisted for adults
They're opposites, in most regards. Jansson wasn't as much of a writer that Lindgren was.
>>47523026
>Martins work
>Punching above average
Yeah, because there is literally zero good fantasy in todays modern period.
Anyone can write shit on Martin's level if they are given enough time.
>>47523042
Different anon, but you should be rather glad you never read any bullshit about how "feudalism was the best thing that ever happend and most liberating political system" written in dead-serious note by certain people, some of them academiacs and well-known writers.
>>47521730
Board specific rules are only relevant to the board in question. It's why global rule 15 exists.
>>47523039
Are you reading the reply chain?
>>47523023
Yeah! fuck personal freedom!
>>47522482
If you haven't seen the opposite as well than you're not looking.
I see both sides, minor miracles and desperate crimes played out in little lives.
And I'm just a medic.
>>47523067
Are you suddenly going to be arguing about how the Magna Carta was evil now?
>>47523039
Not him, but perhaps "realism" isn't the right word
Rather, consitency and characters not acting like fucking retards
>>47523067
Are you talking about the so called dark enlightenment crowd?
>>47523067
There is plenty of "feudalism was the worst thing ever, all lords were terrible oppressive assholes and trotting on the terrible poor peasants who all live up to 35 and then died" bullshit that is equally as a dishonest and historically inaccurate flying around right now.
>>47522482
Might it be because you're whole job is to deal with evil in society?
Just a thought. I work with disabled and see pure good every day. Families, friends, total strangers... Helping hands are everywhere.
>>47522589
Angles, Saxons and Jutes (and to a lesser extent franks and frisians) were northern groups who settled in the areas that would become the United Kingdom. Angles and Jutes are from areas within northern germany/denmark whilst Saxons are from the dutch/german areas. Even up to the 11th century invasion of the english kingdoms the area had heavy ties with the danes.
>>47523102
It has nothing to do with Magna Carta, you fucking cunt. In fact, Magna Carta was one of huge steps to throw feudalism away, you uneducated tool
>>47523109
I don't know how they are called, but there is shit-tonne of romanticised feudalism going around, pretending that feudalism was somehow better than modern society, while atributing to said feudalism elements from our modern society, that would be in fact in direct contradiction with basic concept of feudal society ladder.
>>47523127
I work in I.T and I started out as a helping hand in the world but I am slowly turning into the everyday evil. So I guess its swings and roundabouts with this moral shit
>>47523139
>Magna Carta was one of the huge steps to throw feudalism away
>Literally the ruling laws on how to be a proper feudal lord
>throw feudalism away.
Are you American? It would explain why you know fuck all about Feudalism at least.
>>47523103
But Martin characters are acting like fucking retards all the time, so your claim makes it even worse now
>>47523125
It's still closer to truth, because this stance usually plays up to grotesque levels how feudal society is simply elitist and anti-egalitarian in it's basic rules, giving people shit or praise for literally existing, while being in it's core based on most primitive social darwinism of "strong rule over weak with their military prowress".
>>47523066
> literally zero good fantasy in todays modern period.
You clearly don't read much if you think this is true.
>>47523159
>Setting laws for feudal lords what they CAN'T DO
Let me guess - Draco's Law from Ancient Greece was evil, because it promoted extreme punishments, right?
Never mind it was written code of law instead of arbitrary picked punishment and you could fucking check the law at any time to see how shit's going.
I'm Pole and we elected our kings, instead picking inbreeds, because they've just happened to be the oldest son of the last guy ruling the land.
>>47523178
Name some.
>>47523162
>It's still closer to truth, because this stance usually plays up to grotesque levels how feudal society is simply elitist and anti-egalitarian in it's basic rules, giving people shit or praise for literally existing, while being in it's core based on most primitive social darwinism of "strong rule over weak with their military prowress".
Oh dear god, I don't think I even have the strength to deal with another cretin like this. Another absolute, dreadful cretin throwing around words like "social darwinism" without knowing a single fucking thing about anything.
What the fuck is up with you cretins being attracted to this thread like fucking cockroaches...
>>47522652
thinly veiled stat me thread might pass through. At least in the Case of a thread on martin vs tolkien you are still discussing fantasy, the backbone of RPGs. And in the case of this thread I am picking up on some sociology to twist into a eugenics BBEG I have cooked up for release and an interesting dicussion into norse/anglo-saxon distinctions. As well as all the salt from people who love RAW more than That Guy.
>>47523178
If there are so many decent or at least passable fantasy books going around in past two decades, it shouldn't be hard to list some.
>>47522654
Neandertals, too.
If you're still in this thread, read up on the Shanidar cave in Iraq, and specifically the remains of an adult male neandertal named for the purposes of study "Shanidar 1".
He died of natural causes, but would have been born with a birth defect causing him to limp heavily, and later in life suffered massive trauma to his upper body that resulted in the loss of one of his eyes and injury to one of his arms that required amputation.
He died of natural causes. Alongside the obvious medical attentions paid to him, it's clear that members of his social group acted altruistically toward him.
He also served as the inspiration for the crippled Mog Ur (shaman), Creb, in Jean M. Auel's Clan of The Cave Bear.
>>47523162
>But Martin characters are acting like fucking retards all the time, so your claim makes it even worse now
Oh, but I'm not disagreeing with that.
I'm just saying that the claim of "lol dragons" is bullshit when someone mentions realism
This is an unpopular opinion, and I'll get called an edgelord kid probably more than once, but I just have trouble caring about anything that Tolkien wrote. He has this long history that's boring as fuck, his characters are pure, good and just at all times, there are songs and mysticism and magic and angels, but none of that can make me care even slightly about what's happening.
GRRM, on the other hand, wrote compelling and interesting characters that make me actually care. Jaime, Melisandre, Jon, Stannis, Sansa - all my favourites, and lives of each of them are more personal, grounded and interesting than the story of dullfaced Aragorn.
>>47523189
>Martin
>Tolkien
>What the fuck is up with you cretins being attracted to this thread like fucking cockroaches
>>47523185
>A pole
>Bagging on the Magna Carta.
Explains as such, your "Elected" kings were nothing more than Warlords browbeating whoever was the thin attempt at an Aristocracy into following them.
Just because YOUR country's ruling classes were inept rapists doesn't mean everyone elses were.
>>47523209
Congratulations.
You proved you cannot care beyond petty emotional issues and have all the mental capacity of a tabloid reader.
>>47523185
>I'm Pole and we elected our kings
In a similar manner as the norse, I presume? It's interesting how tribal electoral kingship worked back in old Europe.
>>47521730
You're autistic, aren't you? Not bashing, just asking seriously.
>>47521730
It doesn't stop monstergirl-fags. Their shit is garbage that belongs on /b/.
>>47523209
You're in the majority.
But against the meme.
>>47523189
>not being a social darwinist
Ultimate pleb
>>47522926
Grumbles misses entirely the point of the story Tolkien was trying to write.
Tolkien fought at the motherfucking Somme. Alright? He knows what it's like to be surrounded by screaming men dying in their own blood. He knows what it's like to see his friends cut down by machine guns, to hear horses screaming in ignorant terror of the incomprehensible metal and fire monsters their masters ride them into, only to die. He knew that shit better than this soft, fat little fuck ever fucking could.
Even getting away from that, does Grumgrum even understand the tone, the style, the mode these books are written in? Was Hrothgar's foreign policy expounded upon at length in Beowulf? Do we have a good idea about how the Volsungs taxed their peoples? No, because it's fucking mythology you fucking halfwit.
>>47523228
>petty emotional issues
>characters with basic emotions make for bad reading
>reading is about not-reading and saying you like whomever you feel gives you more prestige.
>>47523218
>your "Elected" kings were nothing more than Warlords browbeating whoever was the thin attempt at an Aristocracy into following them
My fucking sides...
Jesus fucking Christ, you just can't be serious.
The entire point of elective monarchy is how the king must asks nobility on every step about everything, because he lacks any power on his own. Fucking warlords browbeating anyone... Jesus... at least fucking educate yourself how elective monarchy in Poland worked. How the fuck you are going to browbeat literal army that is voting on you?
They were instead issuing list of things they will do if they will be picked, you fucking mong. Literal election promises. And God help them if they won't, as that was instant rebellion, dethroning and new election. Happend right at the first election, when the king turned out to be an idiot full of empty words. Year later a new king was rulling the country and is considered one of the best rulers Poland ever had
But yeah, he browbeat fucking 15% of population and said population being the army of the nation, into submission
How one can be so retarded?
>>47522707
Behold the rallying cry of the shitposter.
>>47522713
Yeah, tell that to the Wakfu threads were told to move to /co/ while at the same time some shitty ass new 40k vidya had 3-5 threads going unmolested.
>>47523228
I think I've triggered a hardcore tolkien fan.
>>47523186
Christopher Moore. L.E. Modesitt, JR. Michael Swanwick. Robin Hobb. Neil Gaiman. C. J. Cherryh. Steven Erikson. Garth Nix. Jennifer Roberson. Ian C. Esslemont.
Do you want specific novel recommendations like a baby who needs to be spoonfed, or is a list of authors enough? And that's just off my phone's play library.
>>47523230
Nope, a secret voting with all nobles included. Which in case of Poland meant something between 12 to 15% of entire population, depending on time period. You know, noble's republic? Or a monarchy in name only?
And if king didn't deliver what he promised, he wasn't a king for long. The system worked pretty well, up until neighbours countries decided to fuck it up, by either bribing themselves to the throne or putting figure-heads on it. Which wrecked Poland within no time at the start of 18th century.
>>47523283
Eh, you can still have wakfu threads here
The trick to /tg/ is making a topic and then completely derailing it into the direction you want it to go
Fuck just post that short .gif of Nox (you know the one) and 9 out of 10 times you can get a discussion going
>“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
---
>FLESHY MAST
>SUNRISE SAW HER SQUATTING
>>47523265
>Do we have a good idea about how the Volsungs taxed their peoples?
Considering all their dwarf gold, I'd assume the taxes weren't very harsh.
>>47523272
So something the Magna Carta demanded even without the threat of violence.
Nice going poles, you managed to be backwards in at the height of your power.
Go back to making my fence peasant.
>>47523300
Different anon, but this list is like "here are some decent authors and here are just some nobodies I've thow in to make it look longer".
>>47523301
Direct democracy sounds like a better system of governance, tbhfampai.
>>47523321
>popularity = quality: the post
>>47523300
So..... Niel Gaiman?
>>47523102
The Magna Carta was and is a document made by the lords for the lords to take a massive dump on the church and monarchy and then fuck over all the people beneath them. It should taken as seriously as the reichskonkordat.
>>47523315
Oh, nice arguments you've got right between your empty ad hominems
>>47523328
Well, I wasn't the one setting up the system. And they've wanted to have the monarch, which I never really understood. I mean the whole concept emerged after first Polish dynasty died out and the nobles ended up with neglectful foreign king, so instead of, you know, ditching kings forever, they/ve... found themselves another. And then kept the new dynasty in power, while constantly gaining more power from it, even if they could easily just self-govern the whole country. And then when the new dynasty also died out, they've decided to elect kings.
Nobody really knows why, if the king was already a figurehead by the first election and within next four kings the power of the crown was literally reduced to guy signing papers voted by the nobility.
>>47523343
>Not understanding the very basics of the fucking Magna Carta
Are you the same pole who thinks is Bribary: The government system was a good alternative?
I mean I get it, the closest Poland had to nobility was a man who owned a horse and only smelt a little less like Cow shit, but come on man.
The Magna Carta was the basic foundation of English governing law. The Same Governing Law that evolved to allow this tiny island smaller than your country become one of the greatest superpowers in the world and still maintain even a fraction of that influence.
What do people think of Poland in this modern day that isn't drawn up perfectly in polandball.
>>47523300
Most of those are meme authors and a couple are nobodies. Hobb is the only one with reading and she's horribly inconsistent.
>>47523329
By "nobodies" I meant "dog-shit awful-tier authors", but nice instant strawman
>>47523373
Maybe try something at your reading level, then
>>47523370
>>47523373
>Words have no meaning so I don't need to learn to use them right.
>>47523102
>>47523159
>>47523315
>>47523369
>Muh Magna Carta
Oh, look, salty britbong getting his ass blasted!
>>47521709
Tolkien: Crypto fascist
Martin: Soap opera
Only true answer is pic related
>>47523378
>Strawmanning
>Instant ad-hom right after
You are not helping your own case, mate. Especially since I've originally pointed out that part of your list is actually decent content.
>>47523373
>haha but that's not what I ACTUALLY meant! What I ACTUALLY meant was something completely and utterly different!
>I was merely pretending to use words correctly!
>>47521709
Tolkien hands down.
Not only was he a master linguist, but he shot ideas back and forth between Lewis, so his work is technically written by two master authors.
>>47523382
>implying he's even british
The native inhabitants of that island went extinct some time ago, you're more than like talking to an "Asian" AKA a Paki.
>>47523392
Just a heads-up, you're talking to 2 or 3 different guys here
>>47523380
>People have different tastes than I do
>Let's bash them!
>>47523389
Seriously and honestly - who? Never heard about him and this is not bait, but sincere question.
Who is he?
Or maybe I read something from him, but know it just as a title, not author?
>>47523382
It's not my fault we were just plain better than the rest of Europe.
>>47523403
Or a Pole? :^)
>>47523413
>he doesn't know about Elric of Melniboné
>>47521709
As a writer, it really isn't a competition. Tolkien was a very mediocre writer. But he is without doubts the most important author in the genre.
>>47523380
Sorry, I'll amend mine to "a couple are literally whos" to differentiate myself from the guy that thinks that book sales are the defining feature of a skilled author. But now I see that the discussion at hand is hidden gems rather than genre-defining authors, so I retract my argument against them.
>>47523413
What does using words right have to do with tastes?
We're not calling you a dumbass for not liking something, we are calling you a dumbass for screeching "muh fallacies" when it was in fact you who can't properly convey his point
>>47523425
>Tolkien was a very mediocre writer
Pretty much this. Very mediocre.
>>47523424
Well, I don't. Chances are, it wasn't even published in my country.
>>47523413
He wrote Elric of Melniboné, and that's is all I know about him.
>>47523413
Michael Moorecock's most notable creation is Elric of Melnibone which is like a combination of Drizzt, JoJo, LSD, and Blue Oyster Cult.
He was written as a critique/reaction against Tolkien's style of heroic fantasy.
Coincidentally, he collaborated with BOC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCxL3-Fl7bM
>>47521709
Tolkien wasn't an author, really. He was a linguist who wanted backstory. He wrote so he'd have something to do with his languages. The story was only a vehicle.
>>47523431
... but I'm completely different person! This >>47523413 is my first post in the discussion about other fantasy authors and their merit.
>>47523389
Moorcock was OK, but really only because fantasy was in its infancy. Compare him to Vance for instance and you'll see the difference. I mean Howard is leaps and bounds above him, Moorcock really doesn't belong to this conversation.
>>47523434
So is GRRM, to be fair. He's literally just a grimdark Jacqueline Carey.
Personally, I prefer GRM but it really comes down to a matter of personal taste for 'which is the greater author'.
>>47523454
>That moment when from all listed, you are only familiar with BOC music.
Guess I will just have to check the guy myself and see if he was even translated.
>>47523458
That wasn't even me, who pointed out that you don't know how to properly convey information in a conversation.
>>47523300
I knew people would shit post because "If it isn't my personal taste it's shit" or would be all /lit/ about it and go "If it's not Tolkien it's not literature."
I intentionally picked authors with different styles to show that there is a wide range of fantasy still being produced to suit all tastes.
Hell, I'm not even a big fan of fantasy. I prefer hard science fiction and transhumanism.
But if even I can find a bunch of decent fantasy with just casual mainstream, someone who enjoys it should be finding even more.
Whatever though. You salty Bitches can continue hating all the things and sniffing the asses of dead men like your recognition of them somehow associates you with their talent and success inoted of confirming the lack of your own accomplishments.
Worst of all, you come off as a total bore.
>>47523334
I recommend Robin Hobb as well.
>>47523463
Yeah, you prove you have shit taste.
Anyone with half a braincell knows books are written in different styles and the only people who prefer GRM are those who lack the attention or sense of imagination to fill in blanks and instead want to read a fantasy novel penned by novel equivalent to Frank Miller.
>>47523413
You have honestly never heard of Moorcock? The whole fantasy law/chaos thing comes from his work.
Elric, Hawkmoon, Count Brass, multiple dimensionality, the eternal champion? I mean modern fantasy owes as much if not more to Moorcock than Tolkien.
>>47523458
>>47523470
I don't even know who is who anymore and franky I don't care.
Point still stands that that one guy is a retard and shouldn't be so buttblasted that people argued against what he wrote, not at what he meant to write
>>47523476
Are you the same buttblasted tolkienfag that is >>47523228 ?
>>47523409
Actually, I only responded to my own post with the list. Well, and this.
Trying to argue about whether or not people should enjoy books is futile. Especially here. Nobody asking me to list them is actually looking for good new fantasy to read, they just want to jerk themselves off about being patrician with their taste and to "win" the argument that there's no good fantasy.
They're the worst type of person, and I bet they never get invited out because they're insufferable.
>>47523469
Moorecock's good, and the first Elric book is really short, so its not a heavy time investment to see if you like it or not.
Its like...apocalyptic prog rock if that makes any sense.
I don't think there can ever be a normal conversation about Tolkien, because he's got a plethora of devoted followers who threat him like some sort of religious figure rather than an author. Quite clear that those people left rationality behind, which is fine, but then you can't really argue with them.
>>47523382
Burger detected
You fuckers can't say anything given the almost holy writ status you give your constitution.
>>47523477
Anon, let's put it this way - I'm not an Anglophone. Which means if something for this or that reason doesn't gain enough recognition world-wide, it just won't be published in my country (not to mention translation).
Martin literally didn't exist before the TV show up here. Tolkien was BARELY there, mostly due to tabletop popularity explosion in the late 80s. So when I'm reading this entire thread, from my point of view is "Oh, so those guys are super-duper popular and important... fine I guess". Mine this - I'm not saying they aren't important. It's just the issue of completely different perspective on the whole thing.
>>47522419
>>47522769
Janitors on /tg/ are butthurt faggots obsessed with power. So offtopic threads and posts are ok, but the second you insult something that a janitor likes, it gets deleted and you might possibly even get a ban.
Some of the current janitors like the stupid circlejerks it seems and autisticly protect them, even though quests now have an entire board for themselves.
>>47523476
I bet you're bald or balding. People who are constantly angry produce more DHT which leads to hair loss.
>>47523389
>Tolkien: Crypto fascist
Here's your (you), fuckface
>>47523529
>Confusing Anger for Distain
No wonder you think GRM is good.
>>47523518
The weird part is that it's like they've never even read his works.
They have no concept of his characters, so maybe haven't even watched the movies.
I guess most religious people haven't read the Bible either.
>>47523542
> distain
>>47523516
Reminder that the Witcher is a ripoff of Elric of Melniboné.
>>47523516
Just checked. Not counting minor editions of small publishing houses from early 90s (printing 2k books on pulp paper), they guy was never published in my country. At all. Elric saga ended up in publication with The Revenge of the Rose. Other than that, only Eternal Champion series (?) was published
>>47523550
>Both have white hair
Ehhh
I am huge JRR Tolkien fan, even though I still like George RR Martin, so am going to have to say Tolkien (personally).
>>47523544
There are quite a few studies, studies even from religious groups, which show that there are a lot of christians who haven't read the bible or a significant portion of it.
>>47523474
Soldier Son series starts off mediocre and then goes downhill fast. Farseer series is great, but her excessive use of camelcase really bothers me.
Actually, do we know who started the camelcase in fantasy trend? My time machine is almost complete.
Throwing Fritz Leiber out there as a general recommendation.
>>47523550
Ehhh, the look and the potion thing, maybe, but Geralt isn't an elf, isn't a deposed emperor, and isn't nearly as big of an asshole.
>>47523526
Makes sense. Sort of like how the Witcher books didn't get a foothold in the English sphere until the games started getting popular.
>>47521709
Stop asking stupid questions you already know the answer to.
It always was Tolkien.
>>47523524
I'm Slovak, but whatever, stay mad. I absolutely don't mind being insignificant country in the middle of nowhere that played exactly NO role in humanity history. At least nobody was every trying to kill us or conquer your poor, mountainous clay this way, as there was no reason to do so. And it's all fine by me.
>>47521709
In terms of who's better - I honestly don't know.
In terms of who's greater given the context of their writing - Tolkien. Tolkien did something completely new in writing an epic fantasy (unless you count stuff like the Iliad and Odyssey which are pseudo religious stories). He was a pioneer in his field of literature, whereas Martin, while an excellent writer, writes at a time when fantasy is already well established so he has a wider field of literary tradition etc to draw on.
>>47522435
Just report quest threads.
They've got their own board now.
>>47522621
yo dawg i heard you don't know shit about mythology
i read it too, just now
>>47523568
As it should be. What, are you proposing that every psychiatric patient read the DSM-V as well? Leave scripture to the professionals, lest we end up with some kind of sola scriptura nonsense that ignores the established canon in favour of the anti-semitic diatribes of a German monk.
>>47523597
If I recall correctly, /qst/ is still in beta so questthreads here are allowed to stay for the time being.
Shit will probably fail anyway for two reasons
1. questfags actively undermined proper long-term archiving (a necesity for quests)
2. due to being a new board, plenty of quests get flooded with cancer from other boards. You kinda need a /tg/ audience if you want to be not shit
>>47523588
*our, not your
>>47523621
>You kinda need a /tg/ audience if you want to be not shit
Fucking this. Builders without fa/tg/uys are just god-awful
>>47523621
Enjoy your ban.
>>47521858
That's a funny way to spell Arthur Conan Doyle
>>47523621
1 makes me angry and 2 makes me sad.
They should really allow 1 shot or the first couple haters of quests on /tg/ and just have longer, established quests move to /qst/ so they can still get a good audience but not clog the board too much.
Although I honestly don't see the improvement of having "Elf slave, wat do" or "Would you crush an 8yo girl in MtG" shit post threads up for 4 days with the slower board and all.
I just like the extra /qst/ board features.
>>47523654
>Enjoy your ban.
What?
>>47523663
>I just like the extra /qst/ board features.
There are extra features? I wasn't aware of that
>>47523621
>>47523635
>muh only good quests are on /tg/
Maybe if you fuckers actually tried to integrate to the new board, then it would work. But of course doing that would admit that quests on /tg/ are complete cancer, so no way that's happening.
And don't pretend 90% of quests on /tg/ aren't just shitty wankfests that are either borderline magic realm or generic settings with a EPIK /tg/ TWEEST with OPs doing their best to railroad their shit story.
>>47523696
>Maybe if you fuckers actually tried to integrate to the new board, then it would work
>maybe if you fuckers actually
>you fuckers
Where did you get the idea that I am a questfag you insufferable cunt?
All I said was that:
A. Quests are currently still allowed, so reporting them just makes you look like a moron
B. /qst/ will utterly fail, thanks to the combined effort of questfags themselves and memelords from shitty scrotum boards of this site
But hey, get triggered some more.
Cry some more about """"we"""" should integrate, even though I was the one mentioning that questfags fucked their own shit up in the first place.
>>47522828
Garden of Eden mindset that does not work outside Africa
>>47521852
Who you you want realistic fiction? The real world sucks, hence why we all play /tg/s.
Tolkien singlehandedly invented a good chunk of modern fantasy and made one of the most detailed settings ever. The legendarium is among the only fantasy settings that are considered literary fiction, because it wasn't written with the intention to belong to one genre or the other, it was largely based off mythology and made to serve as a fictional one, as Tolkien's attempt to compensate for the relative lack of British folklore compared to other European countries. In fact, if someone else had come up with Tolkien's ideas at the same time he did, they'd have been mostly fresh and innovative, which is what a lot of people forget about him - they see him as the source of bland, generic fantasy settings when it is only bland and generic because everyone ripped him off after the publication of LotR, and because most fantasy writers don't have the academic background that allowed Tolkien to make his works worthwhile.
His main problem is that while he's a good storyteller and worldbuilder he is a terrible stylist, which is why what is most often criticized about him is his clunky prose. But GRRM's is just as bad, so Tolkien takes the cake pretty easily.
>>47523798
About Tolkien's morality: If you think Tolkien wrote straight Good vs Evil stories, you'd be right. This is because in his the legendarium Good and Evil have very clear, cosmically relevant definitions as the wills of Eru Ilúvatar and Morgoth's attempt to corrupt the music of the Ainur, respectively. If you think this is bland or simplistic, take in mind that he just got it from his Catholic upbringing
>>47523798
>Other fantasy authors didn't exist, Tolkien invented everything fantasy.
>>47523518
Fine, I concede your point.
>>47523865
No, he just popularized the concept of fantasy races as separate full-blown civilizations, the modern interpretations of Dwarves and Elves, and made Orcs and Halflings wholsesale, among others
>>47523677
Current board settings:
Anyone can post images.
Anyone can use painter.
Anyone can use dice & spoilers.
Only OP can use text formatting.
3000 character limit.
750 bump limit.
Decreased post timer to match /tg/ (30 seconds for text, 60 seconds for an image reply).
Automatic permasage after 72 hours.
Thread specific user IDs.
Max threads per IP is 3.
Standard 7 day internal archive.
Ideally, they would allow "General" and "Meta" threads and then everyone interesting and fun could move to /qst/ while salty mcBoardCulture faggot could sperg about women in MtG or have edition wars or whatever here.
>>47522945
Is this a moomin thread now?
>>47523663
Losing quests wouldn't significantly slow down the board. Thinking they're some indispensable staple of /tg/ without which the board would crash and burn is pure delusion. Right now there's a whole 2 quests in the board, both being pruned
There's logically always more ongoing quests on /qst/ than on /tg/. /tg/ has at most 10 quest threads at the busiest of times, /qst/ is a board of nothing but quests
And saying that without precious quests the board would devolve into shitposting is just plain stupid and stems from questfag salt rather than any real-world basis
>>47523209
Pretty much. I can sort of understand why people would like Tolkien, but cant bring myself to even pretend to enjoy it.
>>47521709
Moorcock
>>47523079
If a person buys a car and runs someone over, the courts deal with it.
If a person buys a knife and kills somebody with it, the courts deal with it.
And forAnthraxit should be no different.
Oh look, this thread almost reach bump limit within less than 5 hours.
And then /tg/ complains about quests...
>>47523079
>Personal freedom
>Owning small armoury, because you are paranoid the government is going to crack you down for owning small armoury
Those are two separate things, you moron
Also
>Americans
>Freedom
Also two different things
>>47523454
He also collaborated with Hawkwind. Some of his other characters are Corum, Hawkmoon, Erekose and Jerry Cornelius.
>>47523621
So, the quest GMs are essentially /tg/'s panhandlers?
>>47523244
Tolkien far outsold any other fiction writer even before the movies and is easily one of the most influential writers of the past century, so no, it's not just a "meme" that people liked Tolkien
>>47523389
My man.
>>47521709
Tolkien of course.
>>47522170
>Why do you think so many married women advocate for a freer market, while single women advocate for an ever increasing welfare state
Marriage is generally considered a traditional value, people who push traditional values often take the conservative position on things, the conservative economic position is typically free market? Put that all together, conservative women are more likely to be married?
I'm not saying this is at all true, but there are a lot of other mechanisms that could explain the relationship you described other than "IT'S IN THEIR GENES." You can't really make cause-and-effect claims like yours without a well-designed experiment.
>>47521709
Steven Erikson, but Tolkien did a damn good job.
GRRM is a fucking hack.
>>47523621
>1. questfags actively undermined proper long-term archiving (a necessity for quests)
Lies and misoinformation yet again. This was a false flag, and refers to an incident in 2012.
>>47524223
I agree with what you said in that post but I think there should be SOME limits.
>an eccentric billionaire owns a bomb designed specifically to destroy the sun
>he has no demands, he just really wants to destroy the sun, and he's going to do it
>this is completely legal, no one can stop him from doing it
>the police can't even knock on his door until AFTER he has succeeded in destroying the sun, because bear arms
>oh no we did nothing and we got exactly what we expected how could this happen
>>47524295
>This was a false flag, and refers to an incident in 2012.
That is true, but there was similar incident in past couple weeks in regards of /qst/ archive. Probably also false flag.
>>47522926
based af and on point
>>47523916
>Elves and dwarves
We really need a disappointed Poul Anderson and mythology jpeg for this meme.
>>47524336
I can agree to this. All weapons are legal, up to and including 500 kt yield. Past that is governments only.
>>47524336
well if you agree with what I said then I find that weird, because Anthrax is the same as the sun bomb just in a very, very low scale.
If you agree with what I was MEANING then I don't understand the need for the qualifier.
>>47521917
I came here to post this
>itt: britbongs getting mad because their pet writer got eclipsed by an american genius
>>47522003
Martin is in no way realistic.
If he was, then there would be no major conflict in westeros
>>47524260
>Tolkien far outsold any other fiction writer even before the movies and is easily one of the most influential writers of the past century, so no, it's not just a "meme" that people liked Tolkien
You do know that "memes" existed before the internet, right? Reading Tolkien was a big thing in the counterculture movement of the 60's, which helped boost its popularity immensely.
>>47524407
>martin
>genuis
Yeah, no. He's a fat fuck and a horrible wroter, who claims his books are "realistic" when they are perhaps the least realistic depiction of the medival world, or anything, ever put to paper.
>>47522003
I can think of a certain Russian
>>47524367
The Broken Sword was published same year as Fellowship of the Ring, and Tolkien had been working in the Silmarillion for decades at that point
Tolkien is far more famous than Anderson, so it's pretty safe to assume it was Tolkien and not Anderson who popularized Elves
>>47524431
"Those are the most famoust lines in asoiaf". No, they are not, and you know it.
>>47524422
And Tolkien being popular is somehow proof for him not being popular?
>>47524488
Don't blame me, blame the guy on /lit/ who made itbesides that doesn't change that Martin's writing is pure shit
>>47524488
Honestly though, I can only remember those shitty lines.
What do you consider proper memorable/famous lines in asoiaf?
>>47524572
"The north remembers"
"Winter is coming"
"This is the rarest Pepe"
and other such gems
>>47524477
>Tolkien had unpublished notes from before so was more influential
Then why are they closer to Poul Anderson Elves in most popular fiction?
Not saying that Tolkien didn't help them all be blonde and archers, though.
>>47524572
In the dream his friends rode with him, as they had in life.
"I looked for you on the Trident," Ned said to them.
"We were not there," Ser Gerold answered.
"Woe to the Usurper if we had been," said Ser Oswell.
"When King's Landing fell, Ser Jaime slew your king with a golden sword, and I wondered where you were."
"Far away," Ser Gerold said, "or Aerys would yet sit the Iron Throne, and our false brother would burn in seven hells."
"I came down on Storm's End to lift the siege," Ned told them, "and the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne dipped their banners, and all their knights bent the knee to pledge us fealty. I was certain you would be among them."
"Our knees do not bend easily," said Ser Arthur Dayne.
"Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with your queen and Prince Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him."
"Ser Willem is a good man and true," said Ser Oswell.
"But not of the Kingsguard," Ser Gerold pointed out. "The Kingsguard does not flee."
"Then or now," said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm.
"We swore a vow," explained old Ser Gerold.
Ned's wraiths moved up beside him, with shadow swords in hand. They were seven against three.
"And now it begins," said Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light.
"No," Ned said with sadness in his voice. "Now it ends." As they came together in a rush of steel and shadow, he could hear Lyanna screaming. "Eddard!" she called. A storm of rose petals blew across a blood-streaked sky, as blue as the eyes of death.
"Lord Eddard," Lyanna called again.
"I promise," he whispered. "Lya, I promise . . . "
>>47524644
The whole aesthetic of Elves as the once great but now dying civilization comes from Tolkien. Casting Elves as strictly the LG race comes from Tolkien. Elves having sharp senses and being quick, nimble and generally dexterous beyond the abilities of men comes from Tolkien. Elves having been taught what they know by the gods themselves in a age before men existed is also Tolkien.
Anderson-inspired elves and Tolkien-inspired elves are different. People often veer closer to Anderson's as a subversion to Tolkien's, but it's acknowledged a SUBVERSION rather than the rule.
>>47524741
Also, it's not uncommon for elven emotions to be depicted as stronger than those of humans, like with Eldar in 40k. That also comes from Tolkien, being that the main way for an elf to "die" is to be so overwhelmed by grief that their soul burns up their body
>>47524572
"There are no men like me. There's only me."
"Someone told. Someone always tells."
She narrowed her eyes. "What is our heart’s desire?"
"Vengeance." His voice was soft, as if he were afraid that someone might be listening. "Justice." Prince Doran pressed the onyx dragon into her palm with his swollen, gouty fingers, and whispered, "Fire and blood."
"You shot me."
"You always were quick to grasp a situation, my lord, that must be why you’re the Hand of the King."
"You ... you are no ... no son of mine."
"Now that’s where you’re wrong, Father. Why, I believe I’m you writ small. Do me a kindness now, and die quickly. I have a ship to catch."
Asha laughed aloud. “A horn to bind goats to your will would be of more use, Crow’s Eye. There are no more dragons.”
“Again, girl, you are wrong. There are three, and I know where to find them. Surely that is worth a driftwood crown.”
>>47524816
>"There are no men like me. There's only me."
>"Someone told. Someone always tells."
Tbh senpai these aren't the best without the previous lines
“What gods are those, Lady Catelyn? The trees your husband prayed to? How well did they serve him when my sister took his head off?” Jaime gave a chuckle. “If there are gods, why is the world so full of pain and injustice?”
“Because of men like you.”
“There are no men like me. There’s only me.”
Areo Hotah took it from the man and frowned at it. “The prince said I must bring you back to Sunspear,” he announced. His cheeks and brow were freckled with the blood of Arys Oakheart. “I am sorry, little princess.”
Arianne raised a tear-streaked face. “How could he know?” she asked the captain. “I was so careful. How could he know?”
“Someone told.” Hotah shrugged. “Someone always tells.”
>>47524816
>>47524928
Is GRRM always that edgy? A "psshh nothin personnel kid" would fit perfectly into most of those
>>47524965
You would be terrified to reread Return of the King then.
>Edgy boogeymen everywhere
>>47525006
Tolkien is never that edgy. Edginess in general is depicted as evil and inferior to wholesome virtue. The most you get is the Mouth of Sauron belittling Gandalf
>Sunset found her squatting in the grass, groaning. Every stool was looser than the one before, and smelled fouler. By the time the moon came up she was shitting brown water. The more she drank, the more she shat, but the more she shat, the thirstier she grew, and her thirst sent her crawling to the stream to suck up more water.
>>47525066
Silmarillion had some weird-ass lines with that elf.
>>47525039
Come on man, Tolkien is edgy enough to give Reggie Bush a wedgie.
>>47525118
I get that you're joking but in order to prevent that from being reposted as a criticism to tolkien's writing I'll mention that's asoiaf
>>47525151
The elves recurrently scare the Nazgul away by literally reciting a poem about how pretty the star goddess is, Tolkien is about the polar opposite of edgy. If anything he's almost obnoxiously upbeat on the peaceful parts
Fritz Leiber was better than either.
>>47525196
Also, if you wanted to see some honest to god Tolkien edge you'd be mentioning Fëanor, not anyone in LotR
>>47522170
>I don't believe that for one second.
Your belief won't change it, sorry kid.
>>47525196
Not that anon and I don't think Tolkien is edgy. But he can be really dark. Read the story of Túrin for instance.
>>47525283
Edgyness generally refers to celebration of darkness in some form. Being dark is not the problem.
>>47524928
Like >>47524928 said, they need context
On their own they look like edgy shit or the type of trash you hear in videogames or trashy movies
Martin is a better writer, but Tolkien was a better creator.
>>47522935
/tg/ has always been a hive mind
>>47522926
The question about the orcs is literally answered right there in the book that he apparently didn't read
>>47523003
I feel the need to point out that being a conscientious objector shouldn't be an insult, as when it became a big thing over in England during the WW1 many people who where conscientious objector still went out into the trenches and, while they didn't carry a weapon, would run out into no-mans land and pull injuries soldiers back into allied trenches, which isn't really something I'd consider to be deserving of scorn.
>>47524251
The whole point of the second amendment was to ensure citizens could resist an unjust government.
>>47525941
I agree in spirit but the moment the government wants people to bend down and take it hard there's not much a bunch of civilians can do against the US Military
>>47523389
Elric is a shitty character.
>>47521852
It's OK, we were all depressed teenagers once.
Tolkein's writings are in the top five most famous works of modern fiction.
GRRM is a fat asshole writing depressing and ugly nonsense that nobody would care about if it wasn't on tv
>>47525333
The problem is not a celebration as much as it's self congratulatory behaviour. Like the edgelord think he is being unironically deep and pat himself on the back over his pretentions.
You can even turn excessive edge into a celebration of humour.
