Some of you have been arguing that it wouldn't happen because we just left an eldrazi block, feel free to use this thread to continue your flawed and ultimately pointless rationalizations.
How does that picture at all imply that emrakul is on innistrad? It's obviously Nahiri fucking up some castle.
>>45336148
>implying nahiri isn't kozilek
>>45336395
This pretty much, senpai.
>>45336395
>"As Zendikar has bled, so will Innistrad"
Nahiri has obviously led Emma too Innistrad because of her hateboner for Sorrin.
>>45336518
I don't think you understand what "obviously" means.
>>45336608
Do you honestly think any of this is subtle?
>>45336608
Honestly I think he's right, though it's not yet obvious
>>45336518
That in no way means Eldrazi will be on Innistrad. All the quote is saying that Nahiri's home plane Zendikar suffered and she blames Sorin for it, so now she'll make Sorin's home plane Innistrad suffer in retribution.
The card itself is Nahiri destroying a building. Nothing to do with the Eldrazi . The "structural distortion" is due to Nahiri using her power to shape stone to distort a stone structure and destroy it in the process.
>>45336627
>Do you honestly think any of this is subtle?
It's not that it's subtle--it's that it isn't there at all. Nothing in that card suggests that Emrakul is in Innistrad at all.
That's not to say that Emrakul isn't in Innistrad. Given the direction of the past few sets, and knowing how MTG plots tend to go, I'd say it's a pretty safe guess that Emrakul is in Innistrad.
But the card you linked sure is fuck isn't confirmation.
>>45336148
we just had Innistrad
and we just had an Eldrazi block
the storyline fuckin sucks now
i bet we're going back to ravnica after innistrad too
and jace and his god damn superfriends can save the day and stuff
ugh
>>45336667
Plz no, don't ruin innistrad with the fucking eldrazi shit wizards
>>45336756
There will be at least one new plane between Innistrad and ravnica
It, or one of them, will be really cool and we'll never return to it for some reason
>>45336395
Nahiri is a white mage that creates things with rock magic and empowers equipment, since when could she use red magic to exile lands and burn people? It seems more likely that this indicates an eldrazi threat given that they exile things, have a "distortion" motif (literally every Modern card with distortion in the name comes from an eldrazi set) and the flavor text explicitly links the fates of the two planes in some fashion. It'll probably wait until the second set but I'd be very surprised if the third titan didn't make an appearance, especially since Maro has gone on record as saying there was an important narrative reason for them to revisit Innistrad so soon. There's literally only one storyline in play with any degree of urgency surrounding it, not exactly hard to guess what that entails.
>>45336148
>Confirmed
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
>>45337376
Nahiri's not casting the exact spell on the card. Not all flavour lines exactly up with mechanics. In gameplay, land destruction is red. Nahiri messing with rocks this way may or may not be red.
>>45337376
>Nahiri is so fucking mad she started using red.
It's happened before
>>45337376
>Nahiri is a white mage that creates things with rock magic and empowers equipment, since when could she use red magic to exile lands and burn people?
The next time I see Nahiri I'll be sure and let her know.
I think most of the confusion comes from the fact that most people dont know what Shadows over Innsmouth is. Hell I had no idea what it was until recently. Once you do a little research it makes more sense.
>>45337534
>Shadow Over Innsmouth is a story about Fish People
MERFOLK CONFIRMED FOR SHADOWS OVER INNISTRAD
Why does everyone seem to think that the presence of Emrakul will mean the set will be focused on Eldrazi? Is it really that improbable for her to be present and there to only be a handful of new Eldrazi cards? This isn't Zendikar and Emrakul only corrupts living matter, if anything we're more likely to see spells that interact with creatures than another army of Eldrazi like last set.
>>45336962
But, what if as the name implies, and all the abilities seem to support, this is a Lovecraft themed set? Having a reality warping tentacle beast show up in the second act would actually make sense.
![latest[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Qy9tJKW.jpg "latest[1].jpg")
>>45337572
>Horror Themed Merfolk
Sign me the fuck up.
>>45336756
>and jace and his god damn superfriends can save the day and stuff
That has already been confirmed. The story will be focusing on the Jusice Avengers of Superfriends for the foreseeable future.
>>45337416
Yeah, and Nahiri doesn't have the ability to destroy lands let alone exiling them which implies a level of obliteration well beyond traditional means. Suddenly giving her that power seems like much more of a reach than "current major archvillain and nemesis of the newly formed superhero team remains relevant in block immediately after."
>>45337534
Most people don't know the second most well known story from one of the most influential American authors? I don't doubt you but if that's true it's fucking sad.
>>45337376
walkers have gained and lost colors before you know
>>45337534
honestly i'd rather have not!deep ones show up, or maybe monsters that are closer to lovecraft's eldritch horrors. Another card mentions 'ancient and horrible forces' being worshiped by vampire progenitors. I think these might be the threats instead of the eldrazi, unless they make another retarded retcon
>>45337626
That'd be so fucking scary
>>45337652
I'm in the camp that honestly doesn't expect to see any eldrazi cards in this block. WotC doesn't carry over mechanics or specific tribal interactions like the Eldrazi across multiple consecutive blocks, and they have a very specific reason for this that they've talked about in the past. People get bored after seeing the same things over and over all year. It's one of the major reasons for shifting to the 2-set block paradigm. It's entirely possible that they'll tie Innistrad to the eldrazi in some way at the end of the block, but in terms of cards and mechanics this block will be no more connected to the Eldrazi than Tarkir block was.
>>45337376
>Nahiri is a white mage that creates things with rock magic and empowers equipment
Nahiri is a lithomancer specifically, and earth and rock are one of the magics that white and red share thoroughly. See: Koth, the Geomancer. Why is it surprising that someone who could already mass manipulate rock and turn it molten on the inside to create, can't also use those abilities to destroy when sufficiently mad at something?
>>45337572
>>45337626
>>45337652
That'd make more sense from a pure flavour point of view. Having some form of ancient race sleeping in the depths of Innistrad's oceans.
However, that takes up the same villainous niche as the Eldrazi, and it makes very little sense for the creative team to introduce an entirely new monster when they already have one to tell those kinds of stories.
![marit-lage[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/uiY58u9.jpg "marit-lage[1].jpg")
>>45337728
You are discounting the original Eldritch horror.
>>45337770
>MFW Eldrazifags get BTFO'd when Marit Lage shows up instead of Emrakul
>>45337728
>However, that takes up the same villainous niche as the Eldrazi
not necessarily, eldrazi usually dealt with things themselves, rather than use cults or subterfuge and infiltration. Cults were already present on innistrad, so it's not too hard to think that they'd switch sides to a monster with bigger teeth than the demons
>>45337805
Marit Lage is much cooler than the eldrazi, they really fucked up the vibe of the latter by putting so much focus on drones, the characteristics of the lineages and people stabbing them to death in droves. I'm still a big fan of the eldrazi concept but I think you're greatly overstating how upset their fans would be if a superior eldritch abomination were revisited.
>>45337640
>one of the most influential American authors
He is literally just "LOL Cthulhu" to most people and it's not like the rest of the world will read any of his short stories for their English class
I really hope for your sake that the eldrazi are on Innistrad because if they aren't, I don't even know what you'll do to yourself or others.
>>45337640
>>45337933
Lovecraft has a HUGE influence in western media, but very little "brand recognition" to the general public. Chances are J random dude has consumed one or more pieces of media strongly inspired by Lovecraft, but has no idea who Lovecraft is.
>>45337985
>Lovecraft has a HUGE influence in western media
I'd argue that's confirmation bias but he does have a pretty strong influence on some genres of fiction
>>45337376
Read Nahiri's most recent fiction. It describes her waking up to a Zendikar she doesn't recognize, fixing the minor Eldrazi outbreak (centuries before the current time period) and then discovering the passion of actually living life again. Then she wanders off to find Sorin so she can share this newfound love of life with him in a friendly, platonic way.
>>45337376
>Ajani is a white mage, since when could he use red or green magic?
>Garruk is a green mage, since when could he use black magic?
>Sarkhan is a red/green mage, since when could he use black or blue magic?
>Sorin is a black mage, since when could he use white magic?
>Tezzeret is a blue mage, since when could he use black magic?
>Venser is a blue magic, since when could he use white magic?
>Daxos is a white/blue mage, since when could he use black magic?
>Ezuri is a green mage, since when could he use blue magic?
>Glissa is a green mage, since when could she use black magic?
>Omnath is a green elemental, since when could it use red magic?
>Rhys is a black/green mage, since when could he use white magic?
>Sygg is a white/blue mage, since when could he use black magic?
>Wort is a black/red mage, since when could she use green magic?
>Anafenza, Narset, Sidisi, Zurgo, and Surrak are all tri-color mages, since when could they only use one or two colors of magic?
>>45338403
You're right, but a lot of those examples don't make a lot of sense -- specifically the ones from Lorwyn because of Aurora fuckery and the ones from Tarkir because of time fuckery. In addition to Tarkir time fuckery, there's nothing in flavor, lore, or common sense that says every card featuring a character has to have every color a character can use.
>>45336148
Why couldn't it be bolas?
>>45338403
How many walkers (with more than one card) haven't changed color at least once?
I think Jace, Chandra, Liliana, and Elspeth?
>>45338732
gideon?
>>45336148
ANGRY NAHIRI RAGEBONER OH GOD IM SO FUCKING HARD ALREADY
>>45338452
>there's nothing in flavor, lore, or common sense that says every card featuring a character has to have every color a character can use.
There's also nothing that says characters can't change colors.
>>45338796
That's why I said you were right.
>>45338732
Nissa, kiora
>>45337605
Yes it would, what's silly is that everyone seems to think this automatically means ermakul and not some new horror on the PLANE OF SPOOKS AND HAUNTS where demons are so good at their shenanigans they can bring new races like vampires into existence on a plane that didn't have them originally or ignoring the huge forest in kessig if that hasn't been properly explored hiding a secret god, or hell the moon itself turning out to be a living entity and manifesting it's new sapient powers because Tamiyo prodded a little too hard into the mystery.
Like really guys? Is Ermakul really the best guess you got?
>>45338947"Emrakul."
>>45336148
>Emrakul Over Innistrad Confirmed
Not even close. Nahiri is the villain of SoI. It's basically Duel Decks: Nahiri vs. Sorin - The Set.
WHAT THE FUCKING SHIT ARE YOU FUCKING RETARDS TALKING ABOUT
YOU FUCKS SEE THIS CARD?
DO YOU SEE THIS RED SPELL?
DO YOU KNOW WHO FUCKING CAST IT? FUCKING AVACYN CAST IT
IS AVACYN RED? NO
DOES SHE EVEN FUCKING LOOK RED? NO SHE LOOK ORZHOV AS FUCK
SOMETIMES A WHITE BITCH GOTTA CAST A RED SPELL OK? IT'S NOT A BIG FUCKING DEAL
>>45337933
I read several if his short stories in highschool English. Cool Air was creepy as fuck. There was another one about a man trapped in a tower that realises he's a monster and feels into the night, can't remember the title. Also watched parts of reanimator. Awesome couple of weeks on horror authors.
>>45338947
It would be bad storytelling for it to be some other unknown quasi-Emrakul and not Emrakul herself (if it HAS to be a tentacle monster at all).
Plus, having the big baddie show up in the end actually isn't what Lovecraft is about. Lovecraft is about the fear of that happening eventually, not the actual event occurring.
If this set wants to go full Lovecraft with Emrakul, her "presence" should be all over the goddamn place, but she shouldn't show up yet.
>>45339312
What country? All I got to read were more respectable "classic" works like the pit and the pendulum and something about a danish hotel when it comes to horror stories
>>45339253
Where are you getting that Avacyn cast that spell? The flavor text for Ancient Grudge is all about the Church of Avacyn, but it's a werewolf "casting" it.
By contrast, Structural Deformation literally shows Nahiri casting the spell in the picture.
>>45339784
The Pit and the Pendulum is by Poe. Re: "something about a Danish Hotel" I believe you could be referring to a work called "Number 13" by M.R. James.
>>45339903
I think he's getting at that the color of a spell represents the color of that particular spell it does not need to reflect whoever cast it.
If a black mage is doing some research that would be a blue spell regardless of who cast it, tough obviously a black mage would not be as good as at in comparison to a blue mage.
>>45339947
>I think he's getting at that the color of a spell represents the color of that particular spell it does not need to reflect whoever cast it.
I don't think that's true. White mages wield white magic to do whatever white magic can do, however white does it: if they were wielding red magic, they would not exclusively be a white mage.
>If a black mage is doing some research that would be a blue spell regardless of who cast it...
Maybe you want to try that again with a different example?
>Liliana will never moon you.
>>45336652
Calling a Red/White equipment Nahiri. Please god please.
>>45338732
Also Ob Nixilis.
>>45339903
the flavor text? at least as far as i know, avacyn was the one that performed the cursemute
i didnt play back then so if the lore is actually a bunch of rando red blue and green mage disciples casting parts of it then let me know
>>45339932
Where the fuck did I claim any of them were by Lovecraft?
I simply shared what limited exposure I had to horror stories in my English classes.
>>45340288
The guy you were responding to was talking about Lovecraft. My bad.
>>45336148
Daily reminder that Nahiri has been in PMS rampage mode since the time Sorin restored Ugin on Tarkir
>"Lithomancy on Tarkir? Had Nahiri traveled here before him and bested the dragon?"
>>45337376
Planeswalkers aren't limited in what colours they can actually use, mostly it relies on their personal style. There's nothing exclusively White about Nahiri's outlook on life, she just got jammed into a colour because lolcommandercycle.
>>45339784
Canada.
Also had a week on stories/poems influenced by the wild wild west (and got to watch Unforgiven to boot). Can't remember much else, but it was a North American Literature class, taken in my graduating year. Pretty much had two English classes, was quite fun.
>>45337640
reminder that for most people 'lovecraftian' means a green giant with an octopus for a head.
Reminder that no matter what the block will probably be trash. Just remember the flavor suicide of AVR it has as a plot spring board and the utter trash that ZEN2 was.
>>45339979
I'd show her my Eldritch Moon, if you know what I mean
>>45340181
Also, technically Teferi, though he's got a 1/1 split of creature and planeswalker.
>>45340688
But Teferi has had 2 creature cards, anon
>>45339312
I believe you are thinking of "The Outsider", anon
>>45339977
>black version of foresee
I missed this one. Lotta sweet black card draw in recent sets.
>>45339979
I'd make sure it was a blood moon iykwim
>>45336756
Why can't we return to Kamigawa, the best plane in Magic?
Or at least have a new Tamiyo in this set or Eldritch moon.
FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK
needs more splice...
>exile
>distortion
come on guys
>>45341297
>plane full of weebs
>best anything
thats one plane even the phyrexians would avoid
Nahri is red now? Must be on her period
>>45341408
That
Is quite the image
>>45341517
The perspective is really weird looking.
>>45341325
considering they now canonically have the most extra planar knowledge in the multiverse, they would do well to.
>>45341408
>socks
>sandals
JUST
MaRo and Wizards recently put out an article talking about how the 3 set blocks fuck planes over hard in order for the 3rd set to feel different from the other two. Basically they admitted to ruining planes because they didn't know any better. If they really bring eldrazi shit into Innistrad then they are far too stupid for their own damn good.
>>45341408
That's why we need Tamiyo
Someone to chill that bitch out.
My bet is that there will be a dark version of the gatewatch with Lili, Sorin, Ob Nix and Garruk.
Jace will appear in the set but have to fight Lili. Sorin will fight Nahiri. Garruk will just fight people in general.
>>45342064
>Meanwhile, at the Legion of Doom's secret hidden fortress...
>>45342086
someone call the wonder twins
>>45341854
Clearly, she's asking for whatever is about to happen to her.
>>45341947
Anon, don't be bringing your logic into this thread. clearly, the word "eldritch" can ONLY mean that Emrakul will show up and the whole set will be Zendikar 2: Spooky Boogaloo. It's 100% confirmed.
>>45337491
Wasn't he already red?
Most dwarves are red.
>>45341947
You misunderstood the article. They weren't saying that it was "wrong" to fuck over a fictional location, they said that three set blocks put a lot of pressure on making the third set distinct from the first two, often to the deficit of the block as a whole. They also that the pressure to introduce change in the third block led to them replacing the interesting KTK plane with the less interesting DTK plane.
The point was that smaller, two set blocks would be stronger thematically and mechanically, and would give them more control over how they change the settings from set to set; not that they were going to stop fucking up planes.
>>45342491
Dude, Barrin was blue.
>>45342508
And you're ignoring the fact that the pressure to make the third set distinct from the other two comes from the fact that people get bored with settings after two sets. having back-to-back Eldrazi-focused blocks completely flies in the face of everything they've talked about regarding the shift to the 2-set paradigm.
>>45342491
Barrin was a Human Wizard who used blue magic.
>>45342561
>And you're ignoring the fact that the pressure to make the third set distinct from the other two comes from the fact that people get bored with settings after two sets.
No, I'm not. I'm just saying if anyone who expects Maro and Co to stop "ruining planes" is going to be disappointed.
>>45342544
>>45342586
Oh shit, my bad.
>>45339313
Yeah that's how I think the Eldrazi originally worked. They didn't stomp into planes and destroy them... they worked from the outside inward.
Emrakul's style of distortion (Last I heard) was all about turning the land itself into a writhing bleeding mass of tentacles and things.
Kind of like how Ulamog turns lands into dust, and Kozilek makes lands into Bismuth.
>>45339989
Or a Red/White Nahiri, that provides a badass equipment
>>45343701
What the fuck's the difference?
>>45343783
i would like to have a planeswalker that poops multples of them out, duh
>implying kozilek isn't distorting time space to make you think its Innistrad buts you were really in zendikars all along
>>45337933
He's one of the most copied voices in the entire horror genre and his tropes crop up in media almost everywhere you turn. Your own lack of education or awareness doesn't belittle his importance.
>>45345049
Yes, but see, that doesn't contradict what that anon said. Lovecraft has had a great deal of influence on other writers, Stephen King said Lovecraft's stories was what made him decide he wanted to be a horror writer and Neil Gaiman said that Lovecraft built the stage on which all modern fiction is written. But that doesn't change the fact that to normal people who aren't interested in 1920's pulp fiction or old horror stories past Dracula and Frankenstein the name Lovecraft means nothing.
Marit Lage confirmed Eldrazi.
>>45338403
The point wasn't that characters can't change colors, it's that if the choices are between a sudden color change or another well established character you should probably assume it's the latter. If they spoil a black mind control spell with flavor like "Their minds were subjugated by the ultimate master" would you assume that Jace is UB now or that Nicol Bolas might be making an appearance?
>>45338947
Maro said there was an important narrative reason for doing two returns in a row. How do you factor that in? You probably don't right? Again it makes sense that if it's an urgent storyline point then it makes the most sense that it has something to do with the one potentially related story going on right now. If it's some other terrible abomination then they could easily have pushed this off for a block or two, right? Even if they use the superfriends to beat it they're not just going to disband them in a block or two (or ever) so there is no rush there.
"It can be X" is often true but also very different from "It is probably X." All signs point towards eldrazi, even though it CAN be other things.
>>45345136
The use of greentext implies doubt that he was influential. If that wasn't the intent then maybe they should use normal sentences to communicate their thoughts.
And I'll just defer to what an earlier anon said, if that's all that most people know then that's fucking depressing.
>>45339979
>ravens
>Liliana
>ravens and Liliana are connected to the raven man
>raven man has very poorly defined power level
>raven man could be the shadow over innistrad
>>45345264
People always forget that their interests are far more niche then they think.
Lovecraft was frankly a pretty bleh author.
Nahiri is over 10 thousand years old (almost twice as old as Urza)
in that time she can easily have learned to use other colors of Mana, Obnix and Urza both did it.
generally people being stuck in one color of mana (or 2 or3) is due to a character flaw/mental block, or time.
and being one of the older recorded Old-Walkers gives her a hell of alot of fucking Time.
not to mention she's stated to be one of the more powerful Walkers to have ever lived.
>>45345334
Except that he legitimately isn't niche and legitimately had a huge impact on the development of stories across all media. That isn't something that people are hallucinating to be true, it's a fairly well documented fact that you can go look up if you're curious. And yes his writing style wasn't always the best, in particular some of the passages that just get bogged down in long strings of underused adjectives do more to kill the pacing than build the atmosphere. He was "just" a pulp writer, you don't need to be the most technically or creatively gifted author ever to leave an impression on culture.
>>45345185
>Maro said there was an important narrative reason for doing two returns in a row
Here's the issue with this line of thinking: Big E was planned to show up in the third set of BfZ, but was pushed out due to the switch to 2-set blocks. By the time that decision was made, SoI was already in the design stage. Something like Emrakul showing up isn't the kind of thing you could just drop into an existing design file and be done with, it would require reconfiguring the entire block around it, which I do not believe they would have done.
I'm not saying that the block is going to have absolutely nothing to do with the Eldrazi. I'm saying that Emrakul isn't going to show up, and there aren't going to be any Eldrazi cards in SoI block, because doing so would fly in the face of everything they've said about block design and structure. That's not to say that there won't be some narrative connection, much like how Tarkir block had a narrative tie to Zendikar due to Ugin, but anyone expecting more Eldrazi cards is going to be disappointed.
>>45345471
So what is the reason for the urgency? You can't just keep saying "no eldrazi" without addressing that in a way that provides an alternate explanation. Also I'd argue that it would actually be very easy to drop a new Emrakul into a set. If she's just pushing into the world and hasn't begun a full blown invasion (they've seen this before, chances are they are in a better position to respond before it escalates all the way) then they would just need to put her and a handful of other big eldrazi cards in the second set without devoting half of everything to drones and garbage like that.
>>45345408
>Except that he legitimately isn't niche and legitimately had a huge impact on the development of stories across all media.
So did Tolkien, and yet you're still going to run into people who, when they hear the word "elf," are going to think of the Keebler cookie mascots before they think of Legolas.
The fact of the matter is that even if what somebody did in the past effects everybody today, that doesn't mean that everybody's going to know who that person is. They might not even care. That goes for all kinds of figures -- cultural, scientific, philosophical, it doesn't matter. If you went up to a random person on the street and asked them about Aristotle, what are the odds that they even be able to tell him apart from Socrates and Plato? Aristotle has almost certainly had a much larger impact than Lovecraft did on the development of stories, but that doesn't mean people are going to know that.
Sure, Lovecraft is a couple thousand years more contemporary, but that just means that people are more likely to recognize the name and connect it with something -- which, for the overwhelming majority of people who don't really care that much about him, is 9 times out of 10 going to be the big C himself and/or the words "eldritch horror."
>>45345664
What does that have to do with anything? It's a discussion about whether or not he was influential, not whether or not your illiterate cousin Ted keeps a volume of his short stories under his pillow.
>>45345408
That's because story tellers are their own niche and within that niche is another niche that is horror. Lovecraft only means something to us because we are nerds.
>>45345821
I don't think anybody is actually claiming that he wasn't influential, aside from that one line of greentext that implied it.
>>45345821
We are talking about how much of a niche author he is. Majority of people do not know of his works
>>45345586
>So what is the reason for the urgency?
Finding Sorin and getting him, Nahiri and Ugin together so they can catch a formless abomination and kill it with the people who made it previously possible? Its not like they can actually do a damn thing to ermakul on a plane without hedrons directly linked into the world's mana source to give her a material form.
>>45340716
>Always late for class
>No appreciation for constructive use of time.
>Becomes super time wizard.
kek, sometimes this game is too much.
>>45342064
>Garruk
>Working with Liliana
>Ob Nixilis
>Working with anyone
>>45345664
>you're still going to run into people who, when they hear the word "elf," are going to think of the Keebler cookie mascots before they think of Legolas.
Fuck, someone was talking to me the other day about Sting and the sword wasn't the first or even the second thing I thought of in relation to that noun
>>45346221
I mean, the sword was named that because it had a nasty sting, as in the original word, so that's not really surprising at all, senpai.
You also shouldn't forget that thinking of Legolas first instead of Santa's helpers when you hear "elf" isn't inherently some kind of good thing, anyway.
>>45339313
What about marit lage? it would be much moar better than emrakul
>>45340665
I liked AVR
>>45340665
Reminder that ZEN block was also ruined by the last stand-alone draft set in its trio, just like Innistrad
So when do official spoilers start coming out again?
>>45346518
What's funny is that triple ZEN was utter shit while triple ROE was one of the best ever, and triple INN was one of the best ever with triple AVR being utter shit.
>>45346550
SoI doesn't drop until april, so it'll probably be about a month before official spoilers start to roll out.
>>45339903
He's being really autistic about it but Avacyn is the one that cast the Cursemute.
>>45346801
But is the Cursemute the actual spell depicted on Reforge the Soul? The flavor text seems to imply so, but the effect really doesn't.
>>45338947
Are you retarded or something?
Did you forget that emrakul has been mysteriously missing from zendikar?
>>45345010
>we go through five blocks before coming full cicle and this fact is revealed
>>45336148
Emmy doesnt corrupt nonbiological stuff.
>>45346867
It was a series of spells, and I am 99% sure they are all of the spells with Miracle in the set.
>>45346600
Why does everybody hate avacyn restored? Was it just a bad limited set because of all the edh-bait in the set?
Does a set being bad for limited mean you should hate the set?
>>45340370
Ugin was using lithomancy.
>>45347103
Ruined a lot of flavor, bad power.
>>45347146
Ugin legit can't into lithomancy. That line is when Sorin sees the hedron cocoon Ugin's chilling in
Reprint?
>>45347273
Scarred Puma will never be a meme. Much like Millhouse.
>>45347074
That seems hasty. Why would Avacyn cast "Revenge of the Hunted," for example, which depicts a giant dude smashing a church tower? That seems dubious.
Additionally, unless I'm forgetting something, Avacyn is an angel -- Magic shorthand for "a construct made of pure white mana." How would such a being cast spells made from blue, green, and red mana? That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense in the same way that planeswalkers being able to learn different colors does.
>>45347154
What do you mean it ruined a lot of flavor?
>>45347396
Read primal surge flavor text and you'll understand that avacyn is not a normal angel she has a special connection to all the planes mana
>>45340397
You mean whites chunk of the artifact pie is equipment.
>>45346438
That's true, but it'd be confusing as hell in such close proximity to an Eldrazi set.
>>45347427
>With Avacyn's return, the flow of life became a tidal wave.
This one? I don't see anything about mana.
>>45347462
Lol if you want to close your eyes and deliberately not understand that's fine
To normal people it's clear that avacyn affects innistrad beyond her white mana traits of protecting her followers and defending the weak
>>45347146
>>45347240
Sarkhan brought a hedron with him to Tarkir and that's what became the cocoon.
>>45337770
This. I'd much rather see Marit Lage wrecking shit on Innistrad than Emrakul. She's feels way more Lovecraftian horror to me.
>>45347515
No, seriously. "The flow of life" has nothing to do with colors of mana. I'm not being deliberately obtuse, I'm seriously asking you what that has to do with Avacyn's ability to cast different colors of magic. This doesn't prove that, unless I'm missing something.
Please God, make tribes the focus of a block again
>>45347103
1) The limited environment was atrocious. No decent removal to speak of and absurdly powerful bombs meant whoever got luckier with their packs won the vast majority of the time. The issue was probably only exacerbated by the fact that Triple Innistrad draft is widely considered one of the best of all time, so there was a huge contrast fresh in people's minds
2) Ruined the flavor. Innistrad and Dark Ascension were absolutely dripping with gothic horror flavor that was incredibly well-received and popular, and then AVR completely destroyed that with an angels-matter theme and positive tone that kinda shit all over the first two sets in the block
3) Shitty mechanics. The miracle mechanic is one of the worst designed mechanics ever. In formats without reliable deck manipulation it turns games into a contest of who can lucksack their big splashy spell to win the game first, and in formats with reliable manipulation they're just busted undercosted spells. Black had a weird "Only have one creature on the board" theme, which was shit in both limited and constructed. The rest were just holdovers from previous sets
4) Ruined every goddamn format it touched. Standard became dominated by Bonfire of the Damned topdeck wars, Legacy got the durdliest deck to ever durdle in Miracles as well as fucking Griselbrand... it did a lot of damage to otherwise really fun formats.
Don't get me wrong, there are some nice cards in the set, but overall it was a miserable failure.
>>45347560
Sorin didn't know that, that's why he thought Nahiri's crazy ass did Ugin in
>>45347625
>"The flow of life" has nothing to do with colors of mana
Yes it does, that's why dying lands like Grixis are mana starved.
>>45347788
COLORS, Anon, not just quantity.
>>45347625
>the flow of life has nothing to do with colors of mana
Oh that must be why it costs triple green, a ruse to confuse us!
I never claimed avacyn is "casting" any spells, I'm just explaining to you that her presence in innistrad affects every color of mana in the plane, it's obvious from Avr flavor text that her return did not merely inject a bunch of white mana into the plane
>>45347749
I'm not getting the second point
It presumes there was never any forces of good in the first two sets in the block
The angel theme doesn't shit on the horror theme, it contrasts with it, because what do you fucking know, the good guys achieved an important victory, avacyn was released from the helvault. It would be stupid if there were no consequences to that and innistrad remained totally the same
Otherwise sure
>>45342544
>Barrin, Master Wizard counts as a Wizard
You don't say?
>>45347987
Kek
Yeah they really weren't thinking clearly when legend was a creature type
>>45347576
this, so much
>>45347879
The problem is that the kind of drastic tonal shift introduced in AVR makes no sense in a "Gothic Horror" themed block. Protagonists in Gothic Horror don't get triumphant victories where angels descend from on high and burn away the darkness.
>>45347817
>I never claimed avacyn is "casting" any spells
Well, incidentally, "casting" spells is all I've been talking about this entire time, so what you're talking about is completely irrelevant to what I'M talking about.
Next time you get into a discussion here, please read the reply thread first so you know what you're talking about.
>>45348004
as far as i'm concerned, my Glissa Sunseeker says "Elf Legend" and that's what she is
>>45348048
>completely irrelevant
Okay bro, sorry I wasted your precious time on 4chan
>>45348020
In the end wasn't it Liliana that defeated griselbrand though?
I feel like avacyn was the hope mortals needed to go on, not a complete annihilator of all evil in the plane, the whole point was the balance sorin wanted right?
I haven't looked at all the avacyn restored cards so maybe there wasn't enough representation of evil still being alive and fighting
>>45348242
Looked at Avr cards in a while****
>>45348020
In the end it's still Magic the Gathering anon. It wasn't going to end with Garruk's head on a spike while a bunch of angry villagers wave torches and pitchforks at the vampires that are going to eat them.
>>45345471
>By the time that decision was made, SoI was already in the design stage.
It might work if it solved a problem they were already having. For instance, maybe they already knew they wanted a different horror genre to keep the plane from getting stale, but weren't sure what direction to take. Or maybe they knew they wanted to go Lovecraftian but were trying to figure out how to do it without stepping on Eldrazi toes.
What strikes me as most likely, however, was that Emrakul was always planned to be there, and never got bumped out of BfZ block. The ending felt rushed - the traditional structure would have been to have Kozilek revealed in the second block and the both of them defeated in the third. If the Gatewatch are supposed to be formed because of the Eldrazi, but persist beyond them, it would be important to eliminate the Eldrazi role in the story quickly so that they can move on to establishing a persistent, villainous threat. On the other hand, one block would feel inadequate considering how they were played up in RoE - but two blocks? That would work, especially when they were supposed to be three sets apiece.
>>45345408
>Except that he legitimately isn't niche and legitimately had a huge impact on the development of stories across all media.
Lovecraft had a tremendous, nearly unknowably vast influence on the development of modern horror.
He was also niche as fuck.
>>45348242
Liliana did defeat griselbrand, but it was more the general feel of the set. Cards like Defang, banners raised, really most of Red and White in general paints a picture of the humans being reinvigorated by the reappearance of angels and waging all-out war against the creatures of the night. Rather than restoring balance, from the art it appears that the balance has shifted in the other direction.
>>45348386
That wouldn't be a particularly genre-appropriate ending either. Really, "It's still Magic the Gathering" doesn't work as an argument against happy endings, as most of the blocks leading up to Innistrad had bad ends. Honestly, the lack of happy endings was probably the biggest issue, as players were getting tired of bad end after bad end and wanted the good guys to pull one out for once. It's entirely possible to have the good guys win, but I think they went way too far with the happy ending and lost sight of what drew people to the plane in the first place.
>>45347766
Yeah. I guess the fact that he suspects her is pretty telling re: their relationship conflict.
>>45348685
>It's entirely possible to have the good guys win, but I think they went way too far with the happy ending and lost sight of what drew people to the plane in the first place.
Or maybe, just having Innistrad be the block with the happy ending in the first place was a missed call. It would have been a better fit if they'd done a happy end for, say,Mirroden
>>45348772
>tfw Mirrodin was left open for most expansion
>tfw that one shitty author not only killed off the resistance, but also killed off the red and black factions of the Phyrexians in one shit sandwich story
>>45343701
Get your copies while they're still bulk.
>>45349294
with a reference to tamiyo on one of the spoiled cards, what theories do you have on her whereabouts and research?
>>45348896
Honestly I don't see how the resistance could have won. They're in an even worse position that the people on Zendikar. They at least have no hope; but the fact that there are people immune to the oil (or was it metal) on Mirrodin just prolongs the inevitable with a small glimmer of hope.
>>45348612
>Lovecraft had a tremendous, nearly unknowably vast influence on the development of modern horror.
>He was also niche as fuck.
Exactly like the cosmic horrors about which he wrote!
>>45348020
>Protagonists in Gothic Horror don't get triumphant victories where angels descend from on high and burn away the darkness.
I dunno, I always saw it more as 'Castlevania' gothic horror than 'Ravenloft' Gothic Horror.
And the former has fated hunters shitting divine magic kicking the ass of Dracula in what is quite triumphant a lot of the time.
>>45348020
well what is cool is that magic isn't a traditional gothic horror novel but a contemporary card game that borrows from the tropes of various genres.
>sequel to my favorite set gets released on my birthday
>it's tied down with the Planeswalker Interplanar Super Squad
Aside from turbo casuals, who the hell even likes the Gatewatch? There's no problem with Planewalkers, but why do they have to chose the most boring, cliched characters they have?
>>45350126
Maro probably does
>>45350126
Get ready, because they're going to shove them down your throat every single set from now on.
It wouldn't surprise me if this is the block where Liliana joins the Yawnwatch.
>>45336756
wait wait wait...Jace is the leader of the fucking Justice League now? this is un-acceptable, hes cannon fag lord 9000. no this isn't fair, he doesn't get to be the hero after Jace the Mind Sculptor was a thing, fuck that blue nigger
>>45350279
>Our market research show players really like Jace
>>45350279
Doesn't Jace have responsibilities on Ravnica? Is it OK if the fucking guildpack just packs up his bag for a cross-planar adventure? Shouldn't there be some bureaucratic fallout to that?
>>45350279
Even outside that: The guy has all the charisma of a wet sock. That is not leadership qualities.
Literally anyone else (Even Chandra) has more charisma than he does.
>>45350279
>>45350502
that's why he's not the leader. Who said that?
>>45345320
>Implying liliana herself isn't the shadow over Innistrad.
The onnake are goading her to go full hamm and she already showed how far superior her necromancy was to ghoulcallers in the original ISD.
>>45350502
him and chandra are both supreme edgelords
>I am the most powerful mage in existence
>Beware my fiery temper, I will ignite all in my path
>>45341854
Just what, anon? I don't understand.
>>45350551
Jace isn't much of an edgelord, actually
>I am the most powerful mage in existence
When did he say anything like that?
Even when he's saying faggy stuff in flavor text he doesn't say anything like that.
>>45350581
he didn't say exactly that, but he's said stuff very similar. theres one card in particular where he says some smug edgy shit along those lines, im trying to think of it right now, came out a few years ago.
>>45350551
And you didn't even get Chandra's specific flavor of edge right. It's not "Beware my fiery temper," like menacing or some shit, it's "I lit you on fire 'cause I don't give a fuck!"
>>45350624
Magiccards.info has an option to search by flavor text. I'll wait.
>>45350624
he's an edgy fuck, but he never declares himself the most powerful mage, not in flavor text at least
>>45336148
Darkest Hour reprint incoming?
>>45351068
They haven't reprinted Darkest Hour since 7th edition. As it is it's practically useless unless you're playing with some niche strategy. Why would they reprint it now?
>>45349204
Elspeth confirmed for backup on the Gatewatch.
>>45350279
>vehement Jace haters only hate him because JtMS violated their butthole in standard
Stay mad, poorfags.
>>45350646
heres a couple examples, try not to cut yourselves.
Redirect
"It's actually quite simple, but since you've only recently begun to walk upright, it may take some time to explain."
Counterspell (this summarizes the two of them perfectly)
"the pyromancer summoned up her mightiest onslaught of fire and rage. Jace feigned interest.
Jace's Erasure
"you should try to clear your mind of idle thoughts. And if you can't, I will.
Lay Bare
"its good to learn from your failures, but I prefer to learn from the failures of others.
Control Magic
"Do as I think, not as I do."
Fact or Fiction
"try to pretend like you understand whats important"
Chandras Outrage
"her mind is an incredible mix of emotion and power. even if I could grasp it, I couldn't hold it for long"
Jace's Scorn
"id be careful about giving the guildpact a piece of your mind, he might take the whole thing."
and heres some particularly edgy Chandra lines
Chandras Spitfire
"i've lit most everything on fire - trees, rocks, even the water. Now its time to burn the clouds"
Seal of Fire
"after the 4th time Chandra left a place engulfed in flames, she decided to just go ahead and make it her thing"
Act on Impulse
"you dont want to know what happens after I put on the goggles"
and a guest appearance from Jaya Ballard
Sizzle
"of course you should fight fire with fire, you should fight everything with fire.
>>45350126
i dont like everything about jace but i find mind-reading consciousness-based magic to be interesting
i havent really explored nissa at all, dont know what exactly she does, apparently involves land and mana
chandra is okay, kinda boring, like a super saiyan
gideon has a cool weapon but he doesnt interest me that much either
>>45351321
To be fair though, Chandra is a fuckable slut.
Jace is just your average bullied 11-years-old's fantasy of showing all those bullies with his super mind powers, because he is so much smarter than them.
>>45351379
Nissa is Elf Hitler and she's here to kill 6 billion Zendikari.
>>45351118
Because it's awesome anti-eldrazi hate in non-rotating but doesn't hurt them much in standard and fits with the theme.
Of course, that would be too smart and ellegant for MaRo and Baldman to ever consider it.
>>45351479
Ooooh. Neat idea.
>>45351321
>Jace's Scorn
>"id be careful about giving the guildpact a piece of your mind, he might take the whole thing."
I can't actually find this card, are you sure that's the right name for it?
>>45351479
>Because it's awesome anti-eldrazi hate
Fucking how? You gonna hit it with a Surge of Righteousness?
>>45351504
I can't find that one either, i must have written down the wrong name, or its a player made card that doesn exist
>>45351520
Eye of ugin and temple only work on colorless eldrazi. Not black eldrazi
>>45351404
most of the female planeswalkers are fuckable sluts. shes the queen of edge
>>45351556
...are you telling me you keep a little document of edgy planeswalker flavortext? That's weird, dude.
>>45351564
Would Darkest Hour effect creature cards in hand, though?
>>45351564
>>45351581
Darkest Hour does not affect cards in hand, only creature permanents already in play.
>>45351284
>Stay mad, poorfags.
For as overpowered as Jace his, you'd think he would at least be an interesting character.
>>45351321
>and heres some particularly edgy Chandra lines
What's edgy about those lines?
>>45351581
no i just googled "jace flavour text" and read the cards that came up, im sure theres even better ones out there.
>>45351792
whats not edgy about the goggles line? just read all of those lines and imagine someone using them in an argument against you.
>>45349342
Hrm... She's a tough one. She might show up in Eldritch moon, but if she does I would expect her to be color shifted, if only because we're probably getting a new Jace in SOI, and they're not going to put two mono blue walkers in the same block (unless new Jace is U/B or something, how rad would that be?). I kind of like the idea of her just chilling out on the moon, having turned into a complete lunatic and babbling about the blind eternities.
>>45352077
What if she's UB?
What if she's UC?
>>45351572
>"The less personality we give or characters the more people can project their own feelings onto them. Hurray for modern writing where the lazier we are, the more relatable it is."
>>45351321
If only this was at all representative of Jace.
>>45350279
Gideon is the leader.
Jace is the strategist.
Chandra is the dragon.
>>45336148
Has anyone talked about it being Phyrexians invading?
If we look at some of the leaked cards, Expose Evil especially.
We have humanoids being covered by a light, exposing evil.
Also, the Investigate Mechanic creatures CLUE ARTIFACT tokens.
It's a mystery/detective set where the heroes are trying to root out the agents of evil from among the humans.
I believe this set will be Phyrexians undercover as humans.
>>45355272
That's even more retarded than the Eldrazi idea.
>>45355280
In what way?
I think from a gameplay perspective, Eldrazi coming to Innistrad would be incredibly dull.
>>45350496
I'd classify "stopping multiversal threat" as reason enough to take a little vacation to Zendikar.
>>45355272
Why did they feel the need to keyword that mechanic?
Why did they feel the need to call it investigate? Investigation would logically the act of saccing the clues, not the creation of them; that would be commiting a crime and not cleaning up after yourself.
Why does a card named Expose Evil have the Investigate keyword? You need to investigate to expose evil, you don't start investigating after.
Fuck, I'm mad.
>>45355306
No one is rehashing the Invasion again. We're not doing it over. Phyrexia is disease grown in different places in different ways, not the same shit over and over and over. Similar, but not one strain.
That's why it's retarded. No one is going back to the Brothers War or Invasion or the Weatherlight and doing it over again. The Eldrazi thing is also retarded.
Can something new crop up to eat people sand sow insanity? Please?
>>45355306
Because everyone, and I mean everyone involved in the Phyrexian plot is busy, they're not going to bring them back before we hear from Karn or Tezzeret.
Having Eldrazi like what they were in Zendikar would be really shitty, and having Phyrexians in a plane which is already horror would be bland because it's mashing two completely different settings together especially since there's no way for them to get to Innistrad.
Emrakul seems to have taken Kozileks theme from og Zendikar, which works perfectly in Eldritch horror, the whole mutation of the mind and driving people to madness is great. We could have there be no Emrakul brood but having the monsters become reflections of her by her influence.
Investigate and madness are the perfect Eldritch horror keywords, if Emrakul hides like Kozilek was then it could be even better because it's not her brood but her influence that mutates Innistrad.
But that's super unlikely because Wizards can't understand this would be the perfect thing for proper old gods type shit, so it's just going to be the ocean gods that was in flavor text about Nephalia.
Phyrexia does things very differently, they're not subtle.there's no need to investigate because they're in your face compleating every living creatures they can find.
>>45355376
The reason we were re-introduced to Bolas and then introduced to the Edlrazi and NuPhyrexians in three consecutive blocks was because Wizards wanted to build up their rogues gallery for future storylines and each of the three filled a villanous niche (Evil Wizard, Galactus, and Faceless Swarm) with two of them also having nostalgic value for older players.
>>45351321
All I see is blue smug and red lol random freedom.
Are you sure you know what edgy means or are you just using it as you please to make moot point?
>>45350496
The bureaucratic fallout will be shown in the next block, Bad feels over Ravnica.
>>45336756
>We just had Innistrad
Not really. Before Shadows over Innistrad, we had:
>Khans
>Theros
>Return to Ravinca
That's three years away from Innistrad. Maybe that's not long enough for some people, but I liked the plane's flavor and atmosphere.
>>45355272
>If we look at some of the leaked cards, Expose Evil especially.
We have humanoids being covered by a light, exposing evil.
Things that are humanoid and "evil" in eyes of angels in Innistrad:
-Mad scientists
-Necromancers
-Demon cultists
-Vampires
-Zombies
-Demons
-Werewolves to some extent
-Spirits to some extent (posession, angry geists etc.)
>>45355538
I too liked Innistrad the first time around, but I'd say five years is the mininum amount of time that should pass before we return to a plane.
I understand why they choose to make another Return block, though. The new block model means that the creatuive team have to create twice as much content so in the meantime they take the easy way out.
>>45351829
Anon, these cards aren't about arguments. They're about people literally fighting each other with magic.
>>45352077
please do not mindbreak lunar cutie
>>45355367
>Investigation would logically the act of saccing the clues, not the creation of them; that would be commiting a crime and not cleaning up after yourself
Anon, please. You're deliberately misreading the flavor to make it sound stupid. Investigation is the process by which you find clues. If you think hard enough about the subtle flavor distinctions between summoning creatures and having those creatures effects put things onto the battlefield and all other ways of interacting with cards, you'll lose your mind.
This is not something to get mad about.
>>45352077
I kind of doubt Jace would go UB immediately after joining/creating the Gatewatch. If anything, I believe R&D has been indicating that he's been moving towards UW: Living Gatepact was almost printed as that, but they eventually decided against making the iconic blue 'walker multicolor.
>>45355367
It makes a lot of sense actually. You do some investigation work right? You expose some guy to the light and he shrieks and drops a clue. You use some mana to analyze that clue and look and behold, it's Emrakul Aeons Torn. So you'll have mere nanoseconds to comprehend the situation before your synapses turn into the void.
Along with the good chunk of Innistrad
>>45355817
who is this jism wizard
>>45351321
>"of course you should fight fire with fire, you should fight everything with fire.
legitimate life philosophy
>>45355885
it's "jism djinn" you neanderthal
>>45351604
Painter's servant
![sting_wrestler[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/pgsJd00.jpg "sting_wrestler[1].jpg")
>>45357070
>>45351321
Literally none of those sound edgy. They sound like typical taunting, and in a few places, compliments.
Chandra's are straight boasting. That's not what edgy means either.
Shit like pic related is edgy, and it's justified because it's black.
Additionally: Whoever writes Jace's flavortext back then is a faggot, no arguments, because Jace has NEVER acted like that. This stuff makes him sound like he's U on the edge of UB, but in story Jace acts so WU that he pretty much works inside an office in the Azorius guildhall with Azorius's mage champion as his secretary.
>>45357372
This. In recent sets he has had better flavor text, but for the most part they suck. This is more of a problem with blue flavor text in general, it tends to be way too smug. Some of Jace's text is actually good, like Memory Lapse, Omniscience and selective
memory. The problem is that most of his text is just generic blue mage shit. Look at any counterspell, it will most likely be some kind of stupid taunt. A blue mage should not be so arrogant all the time, seeking knowledge should if anything make you more
humble, because you know you know so little. Some good flavortext for counterspells are Dismal Failure, Last Word and Mana Leak. But for some reason, they keep making versions of "lol, you stupid!" and it is not helping the image problem that blue has
of being the asshole color.
>>45357566
>A blue mage should not be so arrogant all the time, seeking knowledge should if anything make you morehumble, because you know you know so little.
I feel like that's a pretty narrow perspective to take on the color. Look at Arcanis. Personally, I think his flavor everything is awesome, but I definitely wouldn't say he's not smug as hell.
>>45357731
I'd argue that once you've reached omnipotence, you're allowed a certain level of smugness.
>>45357731
>>45357845
My take is that once you are somewhat powerful, you will not give a shit about smug speeches. What bothers me about a lot of the writing in this game is that they don't think about the implications of what the magic will do to a user's
personality. Look at Jace, he goes into people's heads, examines their memories, and creates illusions. That should fuck him in the head. To have to see lifetimes of agony, to manipulate what makes the very essence of a person, no one
should be able to do things like that and still be a smug know-it-all who is overconfident.
>>45355272
>dat new keyword
my dick is diamonds
>>45357923
from what I understand, in everything but Flavor text, Jace tends to be written as a nervous wreck constantly in fear of fucking up, but I agree that if that's the case it needs to be communicated better. I'd say the Unity of Purpose flavor text is at least a step in the right direction.
>>45358037
My bet is that we will have cards that either require us to sacrifice Clues to cast them or can spontaneously spend Clues for additional effects.
>>45358066
I hope black get a kill spell that give clues to the opponent.
