>They only counterspell to stop a spell
>Haven't even tried counterspelling to kill
That's not really what counterspell is. That would just be a different thing
>>43568079
What about counterspelling a healing spell?
>>43568110
Counterspell just cancels out shit. The Nasuverse wouldn't really work if you tried to actually nail down rules since it breaks them every other paragraph, so it's hard to tie shit to some DnD mechanic. That whole thing was more like using Me First in pokemon
>>43568248
Nasuverse don't play no shit
>>43568060
>>43568079
In GW1 it was called "Backfire".
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Backfire
Though it's apparently less an actual counter and more a preventive curse/hex, but this could be seen as a gameplay thing.
>>43568060
So are there more Fate Space Marines?
>>43568060
>Essence Backlash
>>43572475
I want one.
>>43572475
Why bother when you can play Infinity instead.
>>43572475
Does this count?
>>43568060
That's because Bazzet's fucking OP. I'm struggling to think of a human who isn't Shiki who would stand a chance against her.
>>43568248
That is an interesting thought, what would one use for a TRPG based on the Nasuverse? GURPS? I remeber coming across some system one time but I read through it and it was extremely crap.
>>43574295
In Nasuverse? Aoko and Soujuurou would wipe the floor with her in direct combat, and Shirou could take her out by sniping.
>>43574165
>no ahoge
Dropped.
>>43574295
>That's because Bazzet's fucking OP. I'm struggling to think of a human who isn't Shiki who would stand a chance against her.
Any random dude with a gun.
>>43574295
>>43574524
>>43574818
Or, you know, Kirei Kotomine...
>>43574295
You wouldn't. You'd freeform with occasional masturbation/sex breaks.
'
Because that is what it is.
>>43574838
Only Kotomine in Fate/Zero though. Also Medea's master if it's the first time they encounter each other, but other times he gets destroyed
>>43574933
>Only Kotomine in Fate/Zero
Anon, Kotomine wiped the fucking floor with her during the Fifth Grail War.
Chopped her left arm off to get her command seals, then left her for dead.
That's how he got his hands on Lancer in the first place.
>>43574974
Yeah, that's what I thought...
>>43574818
Pretty sure she can reinforce herself to bulletproof levels. And she's fast enough to close in on and kill a shooter pretty easily.
>>43574974
Yeah by backstabbing her. Bazett thought that Kirei was an ally. It wasn't even a fight.
>>43574994
>Bazett thought that Kirei was an ally. It wasn't even a fight.
Yes, and?
Fair fights are for suckers. Bazett is actually rather naive. It's her major weakness.
>>43575011
I was saying that Kirei didn't win in direct combat, and in Stay Night he is too weak for that. That's why I specified that him from Zero would be able to win the direct combat.
>>43568079
There is no reason to not turn counterspell into bonus casting Magic Missile or some other kill spell.
>>43574295
>I'm struggling to think of a human who isn't Shiki who would stand a chance against her.
Kuzuki would win the first fight between them, but if Bazett survived she'd win any rematches after figuring out his fighting style.
Also Ciel would beat her unless she had fully mastered Fragrach.
>>43568060
didn't we just have this thread?
Nasu a shitter who can't into his own rules
>>43577681
There was a panel discussion about magic in books and settings at dragon con where they had a bunch of authors talk about it.
Basically, there should be hard rules so that people aren't just pulling shit out of their ass.
It also let's the audience know if the protagonist is being intelligent with magic or not.
Nasuverse violates it's own rules all the time. It makes debating powerlevels a pointless endeavor.
>>43577284
>Also Ciel would beat her unless she had fully mastered Fragrach.
That's not really fair, considering Ciel is immortal.
>>43577896
>It makes debating powerlevels a pointless endeavor.
That has nothing to do with rules. The Nasuverse has never had strict powerlevels and always makes it clear that theoretically anyone can defeat anyone else with the right tools and in the right circumstances.
>>43568060
Counterspelling is basically knowing what spell is cast and basically short circuiting the spell before it hits you.
I know a bunch of you are wanking about something else, and Nox is a videogame example, but you can kill someone with Nox's counterspell because of how it interacts with a few of the game's spells.
It's a quick spell that cancels any current casts in progress and ends any spells in flight. Fireball explodes when it ends, as does the Fireball-ish spell Force of Nature, either of which can injure or kill the caster if countered right after the cast finishes.
Of course, Nox also has inversion to take control over and redirect any homing spells aimed at you. So Inverting magic missiles is also a thing.
>>43578376
>That has nothing to do with rules. The Nasuverse has never had strict powerlevels and always makes it clear that theoretically anyone can defeat anyone else with the right tools and in the right circumstances.
BULLSHIT!!!
It's always had strict power-levels, Type-MOON itself is the name of the SPIRIT OF THE GOD DAMN MOON and it can OUTRIGHT level everyone's shit...
They just milk overcoming such outstanding opposition for pathos in pretty much every one of their works, actually starting OUT with "Guy with a gun that can kill the spirit of Planets," to "Kid with eyes that let him kill EVERYTHING," and finally "Dude who can manifest his imaginary swords" overcoming "Dude with ALL THE SWORDS!"
>>43574818
For a random dude with a gun, the gun is his trump card.
It'd have to be a random dude with a gun, and a much bigger, nastier gun. Who only uses the smaller gun.
>>43581461
Except for the part where Arc basically never wins because she's too busy jobbing.
Nasuverse is meant to be conceptual Rock Paper Scissors. Sometimes it gets very silly about this but on the whole that's how it works. Gil > any regular hero > shirou > gil
>>43575036
Where does it say he's weak in stay/night? He 1v1s True Assassin in HF. Only reason he lost in the end was because he was 99% dead and Shirou literally had swords sticking out of his body. Lose/lose for Kirei.
>>43568060
>The universe is an intricately woven spell by the god that created it
>Not countering the specific part of the spell that calls your opponent into existence
The good guys are always saying life and love are magic. So you just have to research the RIGHT counterspell.
>>43574295
Nasuverse operates on like, freeform RP rules. Just make up a more OP power than the previous person
>>43581461
>it can OUTRIGHT level everyone's shit...
Except any of the other TYPES, all of whom are stronger than it.
And Zelretch.
>>43583231
>Zelretch
Yes, but he is literal Reality Hacks.
>>43577896
Nasuverse's whole thing is that there's a bunch of rules of magecraft that 99.9% of mages in the world are smart enough to follow, and of the 0.1% that breaks those, sometimes intentionally and sometimes accidentally, 99% of them die horrible, painful deaths.
That thousandth of percent that actually survives fucking up all the rules are the people who have the potential to be protagonists in Nasu works.
What he needs to do is actually codify the rules of magic that are supposed to be followed, the magical process, and how the various disciplines of magic fit together with one another.
Then not forget about them. That's going to be the hard part.
>>43583291
>Yes, but he is literal Reality Hacks.
All magecraft is reality hacks.
>>43568060
This thread needs more heresy.
>>43583764
Yes, but Zelretch is MULTI-DIMENSIONAL Reality Hacks...
>>43570907
I made a homebrew mesmer once. Fuckin loved mesmers man.
>>43585213
So?
What is Bazzet's deal anyway?
>>43568060
>summoning deconstructs and reconstructs by magic
>it's not automatically proofed against interference
You know, if I didn't know in advance who Aoko is, if Mahoyo was the second Type-Moon thing I have read after Fate/Stay Night, I would be incredibly mad about how she asspulled True Magic here.
>>43585390
Aoko is more delicious than Touko, confirmed.
>>43585522
That was confirmed from Aoko's first appearance.
>>43574295
Shiki would probably lose due to Nanaya his Nanaya blood not triggering because Bazz is a human, Shirou would lose, Sojuuro would lose, Kirei prime wins, Kiritsugu might be able to win, and Kouma was declared unfair. Aoko, Touko and a few mages might be able to win. Aoko for sure thanks to her nature as the Magic Gunner.
>>43585622
My nig
>>43585631
>Shiki would probably lose
Depends on what is still considered canon. This guy took down a top tier mage without even having to kill her, and he did it before she could even defend herself.
>>43585651
I don't know if notes and talk. and prelude are canon anon. I don't know if they ever will be, given Satsujinki is very different to Tohno, and his eyes and body are of a different level altogether. Maybe it's the sequel to whatever routeplease be Aokothat revolves around him meeting Kouma in the mountains and getting into some fights.
![Aozaki.Touko.full.1092945[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/5sXubv5.jpg "Aozaki.Touko.full.1092945[1].jpg")
>>43585522
>>43585622
>>43585646
>Unattractive face
>No fashion sense
>No hips or butt worth mentioning
>No skill at magic, just flings around inhuman amounts of power with no control
>Steals her sister's things, claims she made them
>Is an obnoxious, unlikable bitch
How can you guys actually like the only Nasu girl other than Sakura who is worstgirl tier?
Touko a best.
Touko is love
Touko is lifeTouko also has an entire fucking harem of herself stashed away that would make sex with her both exhausting and extremely satisfying.
>>43585757
Aoko is fun. Touko is a stuck up bitch with an inferiority complex.
>>43585689
>Aoko route
It's coming my friend. Right after the Sion route.
>>43585771
Aoko is a being whose magecraft will never accomplish anything more than the complete destruction of everyone and everything around her.
Even Wallachia thought that she was a complete monster, even in comparison to himself.
Such a shit waifu.
>>43585850
Wallachia was pretty entertaining. Do want a Melty Blood anime.
>>43585320
All Nasu Magecraft can be replicated by science in some way, except for shit like Zelretch's Kaleidoscope and Aoko's time fuckery.
>>43585757
>lies
>lies
>lies
>says the woman with the actual reserves of mana. Aoko is just incredibly efficient.
>more lies. She never claims she made them, just improved them. Also, Touko is the one who takes Aoko's money.
>extra lies
You know, now that I ponder it; most of the things you brought up apply to Touko, namely points 2,4, 5(sorta) and 6.
>>43585390
>>43585622
>>43585646
>>43585757
>>43585888
>>43585850
>>43585771
Both are good in their own ways, I'd fuck both in a heartbeat, and I'm more attracted to men.
>>43585910
>Both are good
But Aoko's better.
>>43586005
Faggot detected
>>43585757
>that would make sex with her both exhausting and extremely satisfying
>>43585757
All wrong, but I will admit Touko's got better legs than Aoko.
>>43581975
The only reason he won that fight is because he was the one person True Assassin's noble phantasm wouldn't work on and deliberately baited him into using it. Also Kirei in his prime would have almost certainly be able to beat Shioru since by that point Shioru was for all intents and purposes already dead and only moving by sheer force of will.
>>43583764
It's more like all magecraft is having access to the developer window or reality, mages can bypass the rules of the universe to make things happen that shouldn't but they're still constrained by the hard coded rules of the system. True Magic like what Zelretch and Aoko can do is more like modding the game, or altering the source code. It is literally breaking the rules of the universe.
>>43586297
Magecraft is like Chim 0.5, True Magic is like Chim 1.0. It's a simple mindset to have.
>>43586312
Although True Magic doesn't require you to transcend beyond the fundamental false nature of the universe, Magicians can break the rules but they're still a part of reality.
>>43586407
Only because Alaya/Gaia/Akasha keep them down.
>>43586210
>since by that point Shioru was for all intents and purposes already dead and only moving by sheer force of will
Yeah, that whole 'fight' was just two corpses wailing on each other until one ran out of juice.
>>43586422
If I remember correctly magecraft only works within Gaia. I don't know whether or not True Magic works outside of Gaia though.
>>43586029
sauce
>>43586544
Tomo-chan wa Onnanoko!
>>43586556
>not h
pass
>>43586517
Magecraft and human magic circuits draw juice from Alaya. Old magic systems like Divine Words drew it from Gaia, but as of the end of Age of Gods, humans have to fend for themselves.
True Magic, if it is used to asspull juice like Aoko is doing in >>43585390, draws it from the Path to the Root, which is apparently an imaginary space filled with juice. Read Mahoyo to find out more!
>>43585757
Yes, how could we POSSIBLY like the girl who gave us the glasses that keep us from going batshit insane?
>>43585887
>except for shit like Zelretch's Kaleidoscope and Aoko's time fuckery
Which is why they're True Magic.
Fragarach can only be used against the opponents strongest ability/attack/whatever, right? So how does Bazett know when to use it? Does she just guess and hope she gets lucky, or do her balls whisper to her that it's go time?
>>43588196
Normally it's not that much of an issue with Servants, since they have their Noble Phantasms, which are usually thought of as the ultimate weapons of Servants. It's much harder with mages, but she has her general fighting prowess to back her up on that front.
Also, it's not like she can't use Fragarach except when an enemy is doing their ultimate attack, it's just that it's not as strong. If I remember correctly, raw Fragarach is on the level of a D-C rank Noble Phantasm.
Yeah, Nasushit is terrible, the entire franchises involved are pits of terrible writing and designs.
>>43585887
Those can also be replicated. Not now, but eventually. True Magic is just sorcery that hasn't yet been figured out well enough to be replicated through magecraft and science. That's how most True Magics lost their titles.
>>43588196
Actually, Fragarach can only be used at full power when an enemy is using their trump card.
Which basically means that Bazett isn't worth shit against say Medea, who doesn't have a trump card, but is super effective against Gil, given that Noble Phantasms are pretty much trump cards on the conceptual level.
>Aozakibanter in /tg/
Don't even need the other boards.
>>43585869
that would mean exposing my waifu to a larger audience, so no
>>43588604
Or maybe they lost their True Magic titles because science and magecraft figured them out, and they were never really True Magic in the first place.
We have no confirmation that old, demoted True Magics were paths to the Root like Magic Blue, Kaleidoscope, and Heaven's Feel are.
>>43585631
>Kiritsugu might be able to win
As if, only thing Kiritsugu has are the bullets he wouldn't even be able to use. Bazett is Servant-tier in terms of combat, and 3 times faster than Avenger.
>>43588673
>and 3 times faster than Avenger.
That's not really impressive, considering how shit-tier Avenger is.
>>43588685
Avenger is shit-tier relative to other Servants but still has the potential to push them to their limits. Being 3 times faster than him when agility is basically his main strength based on all of the combat encounters we've seen with him means it would be more than enough to deal with avoiding a gun. Not to mention that unlike more traditional mages, Bazett is more competent in direct combat and wouldn't get tricked like Kayneth.
>>43588673
>Bazett is Servant-tier in terms of combat
Eh... Kind of.
She was only portrayed as such in Hollow Ataraxia because we miss most of the repetitions that have her getting absolutely wrecked by whatever Servant she decided to go up against this time. We don't miss all of them though, so we do get to see her getting curbstomped by a Saber and an Assassin in her sequences.
>>43588700
>Not to mention that unlike more traditional mages, Bazett is more competent in direct combat and wouldn't get tricked like Kayneth.
I want to point out that most "traditional mages" wouldn't get involved in fights to the death like a HGW because their magecraft is balls at combat.
>>43588628
Technically, Gil's trump-card is Ea, which he hates using unless his opponent has already proven their worth.
>>43588755
Gil's every movement counts as a trump card, I'm not even kidding.
>>43588306
You're being too nice to it honestly.
Nasuverse is garbage, F/SN the VN is garbage, Kara no Kyoukai is garbage, and Tsukihime looks like garbage but I haven't bothered with it yet because it probably is garbage.
"Muh trump card" is so fucking chuniiretarded.
Guns can kill any of these niggers and if guns can't, better guns can.
"I can dodge bullets" my fucking ass, that just means you don't know how fucking fast bullets fly. Certainly faster than your piddly "A-rank Heroic Spirit" idiocy.
>>43588873
that's cool bro but we are not talking about bullets here at all mate so kindly fold your edge back in
>>43588899
Don't reply to bait, anon.
>>43588953
It has been saged
My conscience is clean
My FSNBait folder untouched
>>43586585
Why did the Age of Gods end anyway? I remember something about the progress of technology reducing the power of magic as the mysteries that magic relies on were explained by science. But I thought that just applied to magecraft.
>>43578376
>That has nothing to do with rules. The Nasuverse has never had strict powerlevels and always makes it clear that theoretically anyone can defeat anyone else with the right tools and in the right circumstances.
Only because Nasuverse is basically a magical game of calvinball.
>>43589400
A combination of several factors, from the looks of things.
The end of the Unified Language, which gave humans a much deeper connection to Akasha and thus greater ability to use magecraft. The loss of the humanity's ability to speak Divine Language also crippled their access to high-level magecraft. The spread of science reduced the power of Mystery, which was a major component in the Age of Gods. Gilgamesh says that the total population of the world had an effect, since the power of Ayala was more concentrated in each human, so that every human was individually worth more than modern day people, but admittedly, Gil wasn't around when the Age of Gods actually began to decline, so he's probably just guessing based on the available evidence to him.
Vortigern also implies that complex civilization has a component in the Age of Gods, since he believes that his plan to kill Arturia and destroy all human settlements on the British Isles will somehow protect the islands from the coming Age of Man
>>43575045
Nonsense! It's one thing to disrupt structure of a spell that takes form in the aether, and another altogether to take control and redirect the spell, or focus the dissipating currents into backblow against the caster.
Of course it can be done, but it adds complexity and effort to otherwise simple cantrip, leaving you with less resources to penetrate enemy's other defenses.
A custom counterspell to such effect would be more situational and difficult to cast than regular counterspell.
>>43588873
>Guns can kill any of these niggers and if guns can't, better guns can.
>"I can dodge bullets" my fucking ass, that just means you don't know how fucking fast bullets fly. Certainly faster than your piddly "A-rank Heroic Spirit" idiocy.
Kiritsugu pls go.
>>43589677
>Vortigern
Flawless proof that Arturia's wish to remove herself from history would be stupid as fuck if she succeeded
>Wish self from history.
>Don't draw Caliburn from stone
>As a result, no one gets Excalibur
>Vortigern turns into a dragon-man
>No one opposes him
>England is turned into a smoking crater where no one can live ruled by a mountain sized black dragon who can't be hurt by anything other than a spear that is in his possession.
Congratulations, King Kek, you vaporized an entire country and fucked up the entire course of history just because you felt bad about being a bad king, despite the fact that cracking open a single history book would prove she wasn't strictly speaking any worse than 90% of the other kings throughout European history.
>>43589756
>assassin specialized in bullet shaped counterspells
>King Arthur Pendragon bound as his familiar
>wife, literally the holy grail, used to direct familiar
>artifact that grants regeneration and immortality
>time magic
Not even Kerrytugu fucked around like that.
>>43588628
Bazett can just literally punch the elf-bitch, though. Rin's reinforcement and MA skills are much lower then those of the Baz, and she managed it.
>>43589989
Medea wouldn't underestimate Bazette like that, to be fair, but it probably depends on the specifics. If Bazette ambushes her in the road, she has a good chance, but Caster is canonically the worst opponent out of all the Servants for living magi. For some reason. Probably because her preparations are on level with True Magic and her "concerned" state involves teleporting a hundred feet in the air and leveling everything in sight.
>The only animated source of Bazett punching the shit out of people is Fate/Illya
>I don't want to watch the show at all
>But I want to watch Bazett punch a bunch of little girls
I'm not sure what to do
>>43590068
>don't want to watch Prisma Ilya
You gay or something?
>>43590068
First season is really bad, but 2wei is fucking amazing.
>>43589978
That's pretty much Saber's Fate route character development. It's her realizing that she wasn't anywhere near as bad as she thought & developing confidence.
>>43590089
I don't appreciate all the shameless fanservice
>>43590093
eeeeehhhhh, I'm a little hesitant to watch it because of this one guy I know praising it as the best fate, it's also the only fate he watched. I just kinda associate this dude with Fate/Illya and that puts me off by itself
>>43590120
I can understand that, but next season of Prisma Illya is going to show off even more Bazett with some nice easter eggs for HA fans in it.
>>43590136
I guess I can watch it, and the fight scenes do look pretty good, I remember watching the scene of Illya vs Alter Saber and that was pretty impressive
>>43590149
That was the only good part of Season 1. After episode 5 it gets really boring but 2wei doesn't really have any bad episodes. Latest season of Prisma Illya was dragged out as fuck by Silver Link though, almost making a full season with just filler.
>>43590164
And it'll never be the same again. RIP, Sapphire.
>>43589989
>Nasu: As has been speculated (by the editors), the battle would proceed with Caster winning overwhelmingly. As Caster doesn't have a trump card to use against Bazett, she's quite the difficult opponent for Bazett to handle. While lady Bazett is at times able to dodge, deflect, or nullify high thaumaturgy, she'd be fatigued before she could grab a chance at getting the upper hand.
>.....Oh and you see. Caster-san. She's merciless against mature women.
>>43590022
It's because modern magi have fuckall Magic Resistance.
All servants could steamroll modern magi with little effort, barring ridiculous circumstances like the Sword Autist, but most of their fighting is basically superpowered levels of "I stab them with my sword", whereas Medea carpet-bombs entire city blocks as her standard attack.
Medea vs servants are against her favor since most servants who get summoned are going to have at least C rank MR, probably B rank or higher, and they can just waltz through fireballs and lasers without any cares.
Medea vs modern magi consists of them running away in terror while she cackles like a madwoman and blasts them into a house-sized crater in the ground with a single word. Most modern magecraft just doesn't work against her despite her lack of Magic Resistance just because her magic is too damn strong for magecraft to touch her. Even the Aozaki would get wrecked by her because Medea too stronk.
It's a really good show of just how much better even the weakest servant is than a normal person. Even with her crappy physical parameters, Medea could pick up a full grown man and throw him across the room, sprint at 300mph, and manage a marathon without tiring.
>>43586571
>implying it isn't superior to h
>>43589677
It seems pretty clear to me that Gil's explanation is the most accurate one. This is backed up by Notes where most of humanity dies and everyone becomes badasses again.
So humans in the nasuverse basically follow the inverse ninja law on a global scale.
![1_EaQV9i6[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/oERlT3A.png "1_EaQV9i6[1].png")
>>43586571
If you want H stuff, there's always the author's other work.
Although Shunkan Yokujou ToroToro Spray just made me sad. Reina didn't deserve anything that happened to her.
>>43590348
That's because Gaia's death has caused the atmosphere to become saturated with prana so people can pull off Age of Gods level magic or higher by just drawing on the ambient prana around them. Also most people aren't really human anymore, the last man is powerful precisely because he's a normal human since that's what allows him to use the Black Bullet.
>>43590607
Well, all that ambient prana is in the form of Grain, so normal humans can't use it.
>>43589978
That's the point of her character, though.
Saber and Shirou have very similar martyrdom complexes. Neither of them has any real sense of self worth if they aren't helping people. Because Saber wasn't able to save everyone, she blames herself and decides it would have been better if she never did anything in the first place.
>>43590089
>You gay or something?
Personally, just not into hypersexualized lolis.
>>43589989
>>43590824
True, but the only normal human left is Godo. Which brings up the question of what happened Alaya. It survived Gaia's death but does it die with Godo? Or are the A-Rays and Liners similar enough to humanity that Alaya can still exist?
>>43591466
Liners might be.
Alternatively, Alaya accepted that it can't do anything meaningful to save the Last Seeds, and is just peacefully waiting for death.Or Alaya plans on sending every female member of the Counter Guardians to Godo so that he can continue the human race for another generation, and Nasu just didn't get far enough in Notes' storyline to reach that point.
>>43590408
>Them adorable feels in Iroenose and Tomboy+Foreigner
>Check his other work
>The girls are all getting horribly raped in a way that feels too uncomfortably realistic to fap to.
I'm worried about Tomo's future when her author likes writing depressing rape this much.
>>43591211
>not into hypersexualized lolis
>>43592659
She's legal age now, it's okay to fap to her.
>>43591786
>implying Godo will accept pleb-tier Counter Guardian girls now that he's in love with a goddamn Type.
>>43592821
VV can't continue the human race.
Humanity isn't capable of cross fertilization with any of the TYPEs
Godo needs to nut up and take responsibility for the continued existence of the human race.
>>43591786
>Alaya
>Literally the embodiment of humanity's will to survive
>Peacefully accepting death
>>43593528
There's only one human left and he has no fucks to give about anything.
If she embodies his will to survive, then she'll probably be gone even before Type Venus lets him die.
>>43593528
Well Tsuki no Sango's humanity literally went 'Living? What a bother, let's die, everyone' with small bunch going to stars only to slowly die as well. If only Eldar followed such path.
>>43593411
Pure, untouched humanity is already functionally extinct by the time Notes happens. Godo may still be alive, but even if there are other humans he's just never come into contact with or heard about, for that to even be plausible there have to be very few real humans left alive. Not enough for a sustainable breeding population. And the planet is literally toxic for them at this point anyway.
Considering it's made clear that Liners and A-Rays have exactly the same will to survive as humans did, fighting against the Types and building their settlements on the Types' corpses, there's a good chance they inherit Alaya, or have created their own version. Even if not, they're worthy successors of humanity.
>>43593882
Can Shiki kill C'Tan?
>>43598223
Which one?The answer is no regardless.
>>43598223
None of the Shikis can kill gods.
It's because gods don't strictly follow the same alive/dead line that mortals do.
Case in point: The Emperor. He's a rotting corpse that is technically still alive, and all of humanity relies on his continued lack of dying despite having no vitals.
>>43599436
Gods in the Nasuverse are basically just really big fairies that are shaped and powered by human faith.
>>43574541
Just stick a little greenstuff noodle on there.
>>43599503
But then I'dhave to replace my beautiful Mobility Armour sculpt.
>>43598633
>Why are there so many Shikis?
You'd think that Arc would be overjoyed that she could collect herself an entire harem of Shikis.
>>43585689
>I don't know if notes and talk. and prelude are canon anon
They are in some parallel world.
>>43586585
>Magecraft and human magic circuits draw juice from Alaya. Old magic systems like Divine Words drew it from Gaia
I'm sorry, what?
>>43588673
>3 times faster than Avenger.
Fucking wow, 3 times faster than a normal human.
>>43589677
Solomon's (King of Magic) death also accelerated the AoG's decline.
>Vortigern also implies that complex civilization has a component in the Age of Gods, since he believes that his plan to kill Arturia and destroy all human settlements on the British Isles will somehow protect the islands from the coming Age of Man
A twisted kind of sense, considering Rhonmyngaiad is holding the Age of Man together or something, and Britain is the place where it is and the "veil" between AoG and AoM is thinnest (veil is totally not the proper word to use but closest I could think of/remember)
[NUMINIT] Reminder that Nasuverse does have rules, even Magic has some. It's just that the Protagonists tend to be the exceptions to them.
>>43599925
>Rhonmyngaiad
I still have £10 on Rhonmyngaiad also being Enkidu.
>>43599952
Enkidu was a robotrap.
Why would he be a spear?
>>43599925
Solomon is King of Magecraft. Just saying.
And a lot of the "rules" of the Nasuverse are just how magi think things are, rather than some sort of universal constant.
>>43599925
>Fucking wow, 3 times faster than a normal human.
Actually, if you paid attention, speed was the one thing Avenger was pretty good at. He was able to keep up with Saber pretty well speed wise, though his skills meant he never had an actual chance of hurting her.
>>43599978
Enkidu is also a spear.
Have you not read Fate/Strange Fake or whichever it was that's in the states?>>43600015
>Solomon is King of Magecraft. Just saying.
Fuck, my bad. His death still accelerated the decline though.
>>43599978
http://knkdictionary.pbworks.com/w/page/91781184/Fate%20Stange%20Fake%20Gilgamesh%20VS%20Enkidu
>>43600156
>Enkidu is also a spear.
Isn't he also a chain inside GoB?
Enkidu really get around.
>>43600273
Nah, that's just a chain named after it.
>>43591466
Liner is literally a different word for a magus used in several works, most prominently Extra and CCC, which is implied to lead into Notes.
See also: "Sparks Liner High"
It's pretty obvious what "liners" in Notes are. A-Ray not being just counter guardians would only be a twist at that point.
>>43589400
A pretty strong theory is that the coming of Fourth Magic ended it.
1) Merlin used True Magic.
2) Fourth is everywhere referred to as of unknown nature, all mysterious an shit. Mahoyo further states that "The fourth concealed itself" or "shrouded everything", apparently depending on the reading. It also says that it is wished it remained at the three and that the Fifth had already lost its meaning.
3) Merlin had a habit of giving out Noble Phantasms to people and knowing shit about them. Merlin also in many modern takes on the legend has a theme of the magic growing weak with age, the fairies being forgotten, and shit.
It seems pretty solidly established that the Fourth has to do with the concept of mystery. So, it could do with the Age of Gods, and with Magecraft.
>>43600623
>Merlin used True Magic.
He didn't. Shitty mirror moon translation.
![latest[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/JiT1cY7.jpg "latest[1].png")
>Attack that deals more damage against men and less damage against idiots
>The dumber you are, the less damage you take.
>EMIYA takes the least damage out of every Extra servant.
>Even less than the retard who believes she's as strong as Heracles because she has C rank STR
>Even less than the one who's 1/9 of an intelligent person.
It must be painful being as stupid as Shirou.
>>43600672
but his fluffy avatar is literally named Four though
>>43600156
Didn't Strange Fake also have Noble Phantasms wielded by humans being useless against Dead Apostles due to some bs along the lines of Dead Apostles existing to deny the history of man (Which they don't, they exist to be food sources/servants to True Ancestors, even if that plan did end up going horribly wrong.) in spite of Bazett already mentioning using Fragarach on her apostle hunts in Hollow Ataraxia?
I'd take everything in Strange Fake with a pinch of salt.
>>43600458
A-Rays attempted to exterminate humanity, they're not Counter Guardians.
>>43600903
>A-Ray
>Eirei
you will have to make a better argument than that if you want to convince me that's not on purpose
>>43586585
>Magecraft and human magic circuits draw juice from Alaya. Old magic systems like Divine Words drew it from Gaia
>Orthodox sorcery:
Life force of the World -> spells (self-hypnosis, circuit activation) -> circuits -> mana -> inject mana into Magic Foundation -> magical effects
>For Caster, with Divine Words:
Life force of the World -> Divine Words ("Go make me a sandwich, World') -> magical effects
>>43600937
Counter Guardians exist to prevent the extinction of humanity, A-Rays attempted to cause the extinction of humanity.
There is literally no way they are the same thing.
>>43600899
He's a magus.
Nasu always referred to him as one.
Shitty translations be shit
>>43600903
Nasu's been coaching Narita for Strange Fake. This new "denial of humanity" thing for Dead Apostles is canon.
Besides, just because things came into existence for one reason doesn't mean they can't come to embody something else.
>>43601029
>This new "denial of humanity" thing for Dead Apostles is canon.
Eh, I'm still gonna wait until it's referenced by something outside of Strange Fake before I accept it, it's just too out of left field.
>Besides, just because things came into existence for one reason doesn't mean they can't come to embody something else.
That's true, but DAs haven't been doing much in the way of denying humanity, considering that humans are far and away the dominant force on Gaia to the point of killing the planet and DAs have to keep themselves hidden.
>>43601029
>Apostles
>Denial of humanity
That's extremely shitty because up until now, as far as the themes were concerned, the Apostles were just apex humans. Like the Magicians, really, but less aware of the context. The ambition, the sheer consumption, the will to power contained in an Ancestor are really the pinnacle of humanity. That's the paradox of their existence and that's what's cool about them. They were so human, they were willing to stop being human to further the humanity's cause. How very human.
>>43601112
Aye, humans are the Primates. Cunts.
>>43601243
>far as the themes were concerned, the Apostles were just apex humans.
Um, weren't they meant for killing humans, with what having been made by Type Moon?
>>43601112
DAs don't deny humanity as a whole. They are a denial of their OWN humanity, and of the concept of what makes one human., by turning into a monster that feeds on other humans for sustenance.
>>43601243
Well, it's a very Dark Souls sort of thing, and Nasu LOVES Dark Souls. Dark Souls has "humanity"/the Abyss being a corrupting force, twisting humans into inhuman monsters if indulged in too greatly. You can look at the new Dead Apostle lore in the same way: they pursue very human desires to an inhuman degree and leave humanity behind in doing so.
>>43601269
Type Moon had no particular antipathy towards humanity, while he did cooperate with Gaia to make the True Ancestors for the stated purpose of wrecking humanity, that was really more just him dicking over Gaia by infecting the resultant entities with his own vampirism.
>>43601269
But even from the white king's perspective, if for lack of CM being around these days, killing humans is very counterproductive. Food supply management and all.
That's one of the very weird things about what the Sixth actually is. If it is the same thing as in the other parts of the canon, why would CM want that? It doesn't seem anyone wants that.
>>43601304
>that feeds on other humans for sustenance
Humans have been getting ahead at the expense of other humans almost as long as humanity has existed, that's not exactly an inhuman trait.
>>43601365
Taken to the extreme it certainly is. Why do you think terms like 'inhuman' and 'monster' are used to describe those like Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot etc.
>>43601365
That's not at all true, humanity as a whole has only gotten as far as it has due to working together.
>>43601407
Because people like using exaggerations and buzzwords to describe those they don't like?
I certainly don't regard those three as anything other than human.
>>43601418
Humanity as a whole and humanity as a state of being are not the same thing, anon.
The existence of slavery and wars for resources the other party has are evidence of humans being perfectly willing to exploit other humans for their own gain.
>>43601333
>that was really more just him dicking over Gaia by infecting the resultant entities with his own vampirism.
Wasn't that just an error Gaia made while crafting True Ancestors? Type Moon himself had a fondness for human blood, but drinking it never fucked him over as much as it did the True Ancestors.
Is the ability to turn your material body into a spiritual one a common thing, or mostly just for Servants?
>>43601877
Mostly just for Servants.
>>43601877
Various natural spirits and magical beings might have it, though in their case it would just as often be an ability to materialize to begin with.
See: Len.
>>43603054
Len's a familiar, and Servants are basically just overpowered familiars.
So basically familiars can do it but not much else.
>>43591270
I want to bully Caster
>>43568060
>counterspell to kill
>haven't even tried counterspelling to stop a spell
>>43603719
Tama-chan?
![3d [JUDGEMENTAL STARE]_1.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/kiTpuYg.jpg "3d [JUDGEMENTAL STARE]_1.jpg")
>Liking the Nasuverse
>>43604653
>posting in threads about things you don't like
>>43604677
>NOT posting in threads about things you don't like
>>43604653
>>43604695
>Bumping a dying thread about something you don't like
>>43604695
>not lighting your cigarette
>>43604732
>Not knowing how to sage when posting in threads you dislike.
>>43600959
>Counter Guardians exist to prevent the extinction of humanity,
Not...that I'm aware of? I thought the CG existed to keep GAIA alive. Fuck anything else.
Hence why Archer went nutzo. He got so fed up killing people forever to protect the world. Not what he wanted to do at all.
>>43605911
Nope, Alaya. Archer had to kill people to protect the interests of humanity, but he didn't want to kill people at all. It's also why Primate Murder is kept under watch by a team of them, instead of, y'know, nothing.
>>43605911
Wrong The Counter Guardians are the Counter Force of Alaya, the will of humanity. Counter Guardians aren't meant to give a shit about Gaia, their job is just to prevent the extinction of humanity. It's that humanity itself is what most often threatens its own existence.
Gaia has its own Counter Force (or what remains of it) in the form of True Ancestors and Primate Murder. And it is their job to keep prevent humanity from ending the world, even if at the cost of destroying it.
>>43605869
I'm hindsight, how many actually know how to do that?
>>43606893
sage in options?
>>43575011
>Fair fights are for suckers.
This is like, the over-arching idea of battle in F/Z, which is also a much more "standard" Grail War than the clusterfuck that is the Fifth War. Everyone's backstabbing and sneak attacking everyone else, and the people who fight fair get fucked. Even the fucking grail backstabbed people in that war.
>>43607555
Was there anyone in the 5th HGW other than Shinji who actually wanted the grail to wish stuff? How come everyone in F/Z was so naive as to believe it's ability to do it without question when everyone in F/sn was smart enough not to depend on an imaginary cup to do their bidding?
>>43606019
Gil really does make a pretty woman...
>>43607600
Shinji wanted it to wish stuff, but was really just working for Zouken, who wanted to wish for immortality (originally he wanted a utopia, but time wasn't kind to him.)
True Assassin wanted a name, and Rider... I don't remember what Rider wanted.
The Einzberns were in it for the Third. Herc was under Mad Enhancement 24/7.
The Tohsakas were in it for the path to Akasha, although I don't remember what Rin specifically wanted. Archer didn't care about the Grail as much as he did about a TIME PARADOX.
Caster wanted to live with her husbando. Souichirou just followed her whims, Assassin was chained to the gate.
Shirou just wanted to stop the bad guys from getting it. Saber wanted to retcon herself.
Kotomine wanted to see the birth of an innately evil being and see what that meant, Lancer just wanted to fight famous guys but got shafted because lol Lancer Luck, Gilgamesh wanted to purge the world of the unworthy.
That's it, I think.
>>43607928
I'm pretty sure that's supposed to be Arc - although I guess it's possible that the chains are Enkidu rather than the Millenium Castle.
>>43568060
>mindswipe a player just trying to pump for 36 damage in edh
>lethal them
>>43607600
It wasn't naive to believe in its ability to do so.
The whole point of the ritual was that it could actually do effectively anything by using a stupidly large amount of prana to brute-force a miracle. The only problem was that it had no will of its own, it's just a massive lump of power. Unless you already knew how to accomplish something, it wouldn't be able to accomplish it. Saying "I want world peace" without having a plan for how it can be accomplished won't accomplish anything. That's why Kiri's idea of "kill people to save people" gave him such a retarded picture of the future when the grail saw that's what he wanted.
However, for its intended purpose of opening a path to Akasha, it would work perfectly, since such an objective is just an extension of what normal magecraft does.
Angry Manjew just gave the Grail a will of its own, one that intentionally acted like a dickass genie for shits and giggles.
Everyone in the 4th had both a wish and a plan, even if the plan was shitty.
However, in the 5th war, no one really gave any shits about the grail.
Rin was just doing it because she was a Tohsaka.
Sakura/Shinji were just doing it because Zouken wanted it
Bazett was just doing it so she could spend time with her manly Irish husbando.
Shirou was doing it because Kotomine goaded him into it.
Illya just wanted to kill her brother and go home.
Medea's old master was failing so hard at doing it that he got himself killed, and Soichirou gave negative amounts of fucks about anything.
Zouken just wanted to stop having to reassemble his body every couple of years.
Archer wanted to kill himself
Rider wanted to molest Ayako
Lancer wanted to pick fights, drink good booze, and fish.
Saber wanted to wish herself out of existence, but all she really needed was a pep talk and a good lay
Berzerker just wanted to keep Illya alive
Medea wanted to get married and dress up cute girls in cute clothes.
Assassin just wanted someone to give him a name.
>>43608096
It is definitely Gil, look at the earrings
>>43607928
>>43608404
Hownis Fate/Only War conversion thing going on anyway?
>>43608082
You forgot Bazett who mostly did it so she could chill with Lancer cause she was a huge Cu Chulainn fangirl.
>>43608404
Yes the guy is Gil. The girl is Princess Arc/Archtype Earth.
>>43608082
Rin believed it could grant wishes but didn't really care. She was just in it because family duty.
>>43608260
>Rider wanted to molest Ayako
And in the end, is there any more worthy goal?
>>43610100
Tohsaka's defenseless anus.
>>43610159
You'd think she'd be able to afford some protection for it what with all the old men she's been pleasing for money.
>>43610347
That doujin a shit
>>43610414
That's no mere doujin, lad. It's a meme.
>>43610506
It is?
Huh.
>>43591188
Saber doesn't care about saving everyone. She's like Kiritsugu actually. She'll gladly sacrifice ten to save ninety.
She is a martyr, but that's because she believed the it was her duty to act utilitarian. Her lack of self confidence led her to believe the utilitarian option was to redo everything.
>>43611330
Man, she's an idiot
>>43611330
She's actually better than Kiritsugu, she's aware that saving everyone is impossible and knows that Kerry's way of doing things is wrong. The first time they meet she even calls him out and accurately predicts how his beliefs will be his downfall. Her problem is just that she believed that a king must serve their people at all times with no consideration for them self and so she shackled herself to her own duties and refused to let others get close or follow her own desires.
Alex best King
>>43612806
Alex led his men to their deaths to fulfill a selfish desire, and let his empire fall to ruin with his death.
He's no better than Arturia was. Gil was shit too. I want to see William the Conqueror tell them all off.
>>43612723
Not really, she just spent too much time serving her people and not enough leading them. She viewed kinghood as a sacrifice she made for her people and as such had no real agenda to pursue once she took the throne. So instead of guiding the nation in the right direction she turned into a slave to her own subjects, unwilling to exercise her own authority or disobey the masses. It's a bit ironic, the King of Knights acted too much like a knight and not enough like a king. This is actually pretty accurate as the real King Arthur was considered a weak king for pretty much the same reasons and like Saber that weakness doomed his kingdom.
>>43612871
>not Solomon
Plebian
>>43613347
William's kingdom is still around today.
>>43589978
Somebody just needs to sit the young woman down and show her a certain movie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziTgoseyWoU
>>43574295
Shirou, from a mile away with Caladbolg II.
If Bazett somehow used Fragarach to redirect is back then Shirou would be able to create his own Fragarach to send the attack at Baz again. Repeat until Bazett runs out of Fragarachs.
Or, you know, Unlimited Bladeworks.
>>43613843
>Shirou would be able to create his own Fragarach to send the attack at Baz again. Repeat until Bazett runs out of Fragarachs.
No.
That's wrong
Completely wrong
That is fundamentally NOT how Fragarach works.
Gabrial Blessing pls go.
>>43613656
Y'know, I've been thinking.
Supposedly, when Britain needs him most, King Arthur will return to lead them.
And she's still around in the UBW Good End.
Hmmmmm...
>>43613843
Caladbolg II isn't his ultimate ability, so Fragarach won't be able to do its thing against it.
>>43613867
>Gabrial Blessing
I hate you.
I hate you for even MENTIONING that fucker.
>>43613872
Right, so then Bazette dies to Caladbolg.
Does Shirou actually have an Ultimate ability that's some sort of attack? If you want to get down to it, nothing in his Arsenal but Kanshou and Bakuya can be considered "his".
Would that make Crane Wing Three Realm his Ultimate Attack?
>>43599952
This makes perfect sense.
>"It is something that should be in my possession to start with. All the treasures in the world originate from my collection. However, because much time passed, it disappeared from my treasury. But I am still its owner. The total amount of my wealth even exceeded my knowing, but as long as it’s a ‘treasure’ then it’d obviously belong to me. You should have more sense then trying to rob my treasure away."
Gil's entire goal in the 4th war was to get Enkidu back into his treasury, not knowing that some pleb over at the clocktower was running around with it completely unaware of just how important it was.
I'm pretty sure the one rule in the Nasuverse is "Nasu has great ideas but usually fucks up the execution."
>>43613911
I'd say the act of creating the reality marble is his "ultimate attack," though no single sword within UBW could count individually.
>>43613945
>Nasu has great ideas but Takuchi bitches until Nasu intentionally fucks up the execution so that Take can have his fetishes.
Fixed that for you.
Remember that one time when Nasu was made a tabletop character and didn't have to worry about Takeuchi bitching about a character who wasn't just Saber in another outfit?
Remember how amazing that was?
>>43614009
>threadly reminder that it's Takeuchi's fault Lancer dresses like a gay space pirate
>>43614009
>>43614039
I would literally lock a bunch of orphans in my basement to have their souls slowly leeched away as fuel for a proper Prototype anime.
Ayaka a cute.
>>43614085
He was talking about Red Dragon, not Prototype.
And to be honest, Prototype looks like fujoshit.
>>43614085
I would literally lock Ayaka in my basement.
>>43599436
More importantly, things that exist outside of Gaea's laws of life/death can't be affects by the MEoDP. It specifically doesn't work on Types as they do no have the same (or any, in some cases) concept of death and for the same reason it wouldn't work on the alien C'tan
>>43614009
>Fixed that for you.
>Remember that one time when Nasu was made a tabletop character and didn't have to worry about Takeuchi bitching about a character who wasn't just Saber in another outfit?
>Remember how amazing that was?
I don't actually, can you explain further?
>>43613893
...So, I guess it's established that we here at /tg/ don't like HoS - I'm not even halfway through the damn thing, but with all the flak you all keep giving it, I might as well just drop it.
Anyhow, how do you all feel about From Fake Dreams? It's surprisingly good, especially considering that it's from the same dude who wrote one of the shittiest Naruto fanfics to stain the face of our planet.
>>43614453
It doesn't work on Types because Types can't actually die, as shown explicitly in Notes and as suggested in Kagetsu Tohya. The text of Tsukihime implies that a not-double-nerfed Arc under the full moon wouldn't have lines either, and she's very much under Gaia.
But MEoDP are only as good as the brain they're hooked up to. Shit like Eldar or Tau might be killable, but if the C'tan might be TOO alien for a human's mind to comprehend.
>>43613911
Shirou/EMIYA's trump card is any powerful Noble Phantasm he projects and uses. Bazette would be a nightmare for him to fight uninformed simply because all of his powerful techniques get him Fragarach'd.
Gil has a similar issue (Bazette triple Frags him in Prisma) but gets around it because his armor/defensive Noble Phantasms protect him since he had them all running before Fragarach ever fired.
>>43614487
One time, Nasu, Urobuchi, and some less important creators played a tabletop game called Red Dragon.
All of the characters were supposed to be jokes/references about their writing styles, and to avoid playing as a dry land mollusk, Nasu plays a guy who breaks every single sword he uses after a single swing.
The entire game is as hilarious as it is awesome, but the english translation of the transcript is slow-going, and the anime adaption is subpar in every way other than gender-flipping Urobuchi's character into a shota-loving milf
>>43614682
>the anime adaption
It got an anime?!
>is subpar in every way
Oh. Damn.
>other than gender-flipping Urobuchi's character into a shota-loving milf
Fuck it, I'm gonna watch it anyway, just for that.
>>43614682
>Ryohgo Narita
>Author of Baccano, Durarara, Fate/Strange Fake, and others
>Less important
>>43614487
He's talking about Red Dragon.
Nasu's PC was the best character even in Chaos Dragon, the terrible anime adaptation that changed half the plot. Basically an airheaded paladin with a snarky maid.
>>43614630
No.
Fragarach has two modes, the more famous reality bender and a generic 'I blast you in the face mode'.
Bazette is using the generic mode in Prisma. The reality bender only activates in response to the most powerful attack an opponent has.
>>43614743
>airheaded paladin with a snarky maid
So it's Shirou being followed around by a female Archer?
>>43614813
Nasu compared Swallow to Shiki, though that was in relation to the effects of his powers on his view of the world ("everything is fragile").
He said Swallow is the sort of guy who you'd assume is the hero of the story from looking at him, but who loses all credibility as soon as he opens his mouth. There was a running gag of Swallow failing to notice Urobuchi's incredibly suspicious actions while Nasu screamed internally.
>>43614682
Oh, it is that you were talking about.
I watched the first episode of the anime and it was the shittiest thing I saw all year. I'd rather go back and watch Cross Ange.
>>43614926
Yeah, the anime is laughably bad, but it's a very loose adaptation. The source material is amazing.
>>43614903
>Swallow failing to notice Urobuchi's incredibly suspicious actions while Nasu screamed internally
I know that feel, man.
When the entire party fail their Sense Motive checks because nobody took ranks in it except the guy who's dicking them all over.
>>43614989
I'm not sure if Urobuchi even took ranks in Sense Motive or he just bullshitted his Chinese Martial Arts skill to count for everything ("I examine his body language").
>>43614903
>There was a running gag of Swallow failing to notice Urobuchi's incredibly suspicious actions while Nasu screamed internally.
>>43614580
Gabriel Blessing just doesn't have even the slightest grasp of the Nasuverse. He's not a bad writer, his descriptions and fight scenes are some of the best I've seen on the shitpile that is FF.net. He just doesn't know the first thing about anything in the Nasuverse or its characters
He makes mistakes that a cursory glance at the wiki could have prevented. He writes characters as if he had been getting second and thirdhand information on their personalities. He uses the weirdest and most unrelated shit like Path of the Shura, then actually manages to get it wrong from the anime he took it from.
From Fake Dreams is much better, although it still grates on the nerves occasionally until you get passed the parts that the Irish guy who talks like a Redwall character stars in. It's one of the first stories I've seen in a while that actually writes the 5th war similarly to how it was in canon, as a massive clusterfuck where no one's plans are going according to keikaku.
Although the author didn't actually abandon the horrible Naruto story. He's actually splitting the year in two, devoting half of it to writing more of the Naruto fic, and half to FFD. He even had the nerve to say "I know some people won't like this decision" as if he hadn't just announced that half the year he was going to write unintelligible shit instead of deleting it and working on his only story worth looking at.
>>43614580
It's not that great.
It started out pretty well, it was enjoyable but at some point it turned into something that was not about audience enjoyment but the author wielding his knowledge boner. And the boner isn't all that impressive either.
The last chapter was an absolute sham. I don't know how the author still thinks his Shirou is weaker than canon Shirou, I'd consider him a self insert at present with all the stupid asspulls.
