>>43514917
>What horrible truths have been revealed to them?
The Thyrsus sacrifices children for Mana.
The Moros is on his third body.
The Obrimos until recently suffered from a split personality... Then the asshole "one step away from going Mad" one sold the other at a Goblin Market.

Just reminding everyone all non-ruling path spells cost one mana automatically unless you use rotes. Suck it, extemporaneus affinity "dont need no rotes" people. Enjoy your limited potential.

>>43515183
Well yeah, that's why you also get one physical attribute 1 dot higher than you think you need it at, and get yourself a legacy.

That one extra dot is basically +3 mana per day.

Also legacies with a primary arcanum are great for giving you another category of spells you can cast from within, without needing to spend 1 mana.

Also cast within the "free mana" section of a Hallow.
That free point of mana soaks up the cost as well.

>>43515183

Actually, I enjoy it quite a bit. Being flexible yet paradoxically more constrained is actually a very interesting experience. Also I abuse myself for mana on a regular basis.

>>43515183
>. Suck it, extemporaneus affinity "dont need no rotes" people. Enjoy your limited potential.
Rotes (and many other things) were stupidly expensive to make in 1e. With that fixed in 2e, no one's going to not want rotes. But if you're still playing 1e, you're still going to want to avoid rotes unless the DM just hands them to you.

>>43514917
I don't think my character has learned any horrible truths in like, 2 years of semi-regular play.

>>43515213
>you're still going to want to avoid rotes unless the DM just hands them to you
Or you're purchase yourself some cheap 1-2 dot rotes from another arcanum that you use frequently.

Such as Dispel Magic, Counterspell Prime, and Supernal Vision.

>>43515213

Eh, i'll still take extemporaneus affinity instead. Rotes frequently don't fit my less-cerebral character styles.

>wake up
>see last thread
>get triggered

Man, I hate white people.

>>43514917

That the woman he slept with 9 months ago was really a man, desperate to create progeny and continue his line, yet couldn't due to his own infertility so he transformed himself into a woman and tried it that way. His child ended up being a deformed vessal for a Gulmoth that had to put down.

>>43515271

I just rule that that merit doesn't exist. Its not like my players even read Banishers.

>>43515344
>>43515183
>>43515207
>>43515271

What in the hell is Extemporaneous Affinity?

>>43515382
A quality from the MtAw Banishers book that's supposed to represent an extended period of magical activity without a tutor.

It gives you a bonus to all improvised spell casting, reflecting the natural affinity those months, years, or even decades without anyone else to teach you how to use your magic gave you.

Thus it's primarily for Banishers, who almost never cooperate with one another, and have no opportunities for mentorship.

>>43515382
Some merit that gives a mage a die bonus to cast improvised spells.

>>43515344
>Man, I hate white people.
Hating yourself is why you never get anything done.

>>43515382

a merit that reflects skill at improvised casting, +1 bonus at 1,3, and 5 dots.

>>43515344
Pity, it's got a few ideas for less "orthodox" characters (apostates). I also like the blood-fueled magic and occult ignorance ones too. Why would an apostate know rotes and high speech? No, they'd have figured out their own methods.

>>43515446
>Why would an apostate know rotes and high speech?
Because they've left their order?

>>43515446
>. Why would an apostate know rotes and high speech? No, they'd have figured out their own methods.
From other apostates, grimoires, contact with supernal entities, dreams. You can just make rotes on your own once you get powerful enough.

>>43515458

an apostate is a mage without an order, not necessarily a formal renunciate. Perhaps they're iconoclasts.

>>43515485
If they're an iconoclast they'd be a renunciate or still a member of an order.

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>>43515344
>Man, I hate white people.

Yet, you're speaking in a white language, probably in a white country, believe in western values, and owe your very existence to white inventions. Keep up the racism and some day soon you're gonna learn what oppression really is.

>>43515530
Let's leave that shit in the last thread please.

>>43515183
Yeah but I mostly Creative Thaumaturgy within my Ruling Arcana and buy Rotes for my Common and Lesser Arcana.

>>43515344
That sound dumb. I mean, I can think of at least three holes in that story.
"Oh no, I slept with a ~dude~" is your madness revelation?
Why does this child need to be a deformed vessel of a Gulmoth? Because...
Why is someone infertile if they can transform into a woman?

"Oh, I'll change my entire physical make up... but I won't give myself more swimmers".

>>43515530
>Yet, you're speaking in a white language, probably in a white country
To be fair you're born into society and generally stuck in it. I mean, there are whole philosophies based on that kind of thing.
Shit, MGSV was about that. Also about disappointment, and how Konami is terrible and ruins everything we love.

>>43515554
>To be fair you're born into society and generally stuck in it
No. The world is more globalized than ever before in history.

>>43515548
cant let cucкoldry slide

>>43515554
>but I won't give myself more swimmers
I would assume the answer is "sometimes even Mages can be gigantic idiots and miss the obvious".

>>43515510

by iconoclasts i mean they got pitches from each group of mages and didn't like any of them, or the "conventional" views of magic in general. it's been mentioned that there are mages with ideas the free council views as too bizarre or radical.

>>43515548
>brings up the last thread
>is racist
>asks people to stop bringing up the last thread and stop being racist

>>43515602
Then you should look up the word iconoclast because you don't seem to understand what it means.

>>43515554

ok who here has read night horrors:the unbidden?

>>43515608

seriously fuck off back to RPGNer

>>43515608
Oh, I'm not him. Probably should have mentioned that.

I just don't want this new thread to be clogged up with shit from the last one.

>>43514917
>What has your character learned that was too much to bear? What horrible truths have been revealed to them? Were they personal? Or maybe existential?

In light of the rapid and continued expansion of WW splats, demi-splats, and other assorted supernatural folk over the decades, that he was the only real, plain vanilla human left in his city.

I'm fairly certain that even in classic or new WOD NYC or LA, if you ride the subway or go to a club after sundown, there's a better than average chance that everyone you meet is a creature of the night, and likely views you as a meaningless insect or snack.

Damn that WOD supernatural privilege...

>>43515631

It was gonna be inevitable, to be honest. You don't have a heated discussion like that and then immediately make a new thread expecting it to not carry over. This is why you wait a couple hours before the next one.

>>43515635
>that he was the only real, plain vanilla human left in his city
Are you sure you're not in some WoD style Truman Show?

>>43515635

many of those splats aren't exactly common. I'd assume there's no more than 2-300 of each major type even in NYC or LA.

>>43515635
you have a horrible st, i'm sorry

>>43515653
plus world of darkness general only has the same 5 or so posters commonly posting and about half of them are racist as fuck

>>43515597
>No. The world is more globalized than ever before in history.
And? It's not like you can just pack your shit up and expatriate yourself to Bermuda. Otherwise there'd be a lot more people living on tropical beaches.

Shit, I like English--it's a fucking syncretic mess of a language and that's pretty spiffy--and I'd be living somewhere a lot prettier if everyone could live wherever they wanted in this globalized world.

>>43515601
Yeah but even then why would the baby be a freakish abomination? Also, I feel like it would be impossible to obsess over something like that and not notice the obvious.

>>43515630
>ok who here has read night horrors:the unbidden?
It's on my list of things that I might one day probably think about reading.

Is "transwoman who has one of those dumb Werewolf ghost babies" an antagonist?

>>43515661
>>43515656
Reminds me of the really dumb "everyone in Gotham is just pretending to not know Bruce Wayne is Batman" fan theory. Everyone is just pretending. For no reason.

>>43515685

it is a plot hook for a terrible npc antagonist

>>43515698

actually it's been suggested that most of the world willfully ignores the spoopy realities around them.

>>43515731
Which doesn't mean everyone is a monster splat.

Why are these threads so fucking fast

>>43515685
>It's not like you can just pack your shit up and expatriate yourself to Bermuda
Clearly you don't pay attention to the news

>-it's a fucking syncretic mess of a language
shit meme. English is a Germanic language with a lot of French and Latin loanwords

>>43515685
>And? It's not like you can just pack your shit up and expatriate yourself to Bermuda.
It would be impossible to do mostly because Bermuda isn't its own place. But you can move anywhere you want.
>Otherwise there'd be a lot more people living on tropical beaches.
It's not all its cracked up to be. And depending on where your beach is you may have trouble finding a job, as other people have already moved there.

>>43515731
Not to that sort of Kindred of the East "just ignore the vampires fighting in the middle of the street" way.

>>43515763
If the news tells me how I can move to another country without spending tons of money maybe I should pay attention to it.

Also, it's not a meme. English has a LOT of loan words, not just French and Latin ones. It's also very different from German.

>The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.

>>43515796
>If the news tells me how I can move to another country without spending tons of money maybe I should pay attention to it.
You don't have to spend a ton of money, you just go and get a job there. Presumably you're relying on your parents at the moment so you would need them to come with you.

>>43515796
>Also, it's not a meme.
>posts the meme

>>43515656
>Are you sure you're not in some WoD style Truman Show?

It sometimes feels that way.

>>43515659
>>43515661

Geez, no one has a sense of humor.

I was just -attempting- to amusingly comment on the ever expanding number of supernaturals in the WOD, including the less-powerful groups like ghouls, wolf-blooded, sleepwalkers, spirit claimed, heroes, etc.

It definitely sucks big to not possess some supernatural merit or patron in the WOD.

It also sometimes seems like every local government, police force, university, crime family, and corporation is somehow controlled or seriously influenced by vampires (Invictus and Carthian), mages (Silver Ladder and Seers), and other even less human and desirable supernatural groups.

>>43515796

usually they just hide, i imagine

>>43515826
>It definitely sucks big to not possess some supernatural merit or patron in the WOD.
Except by becoming any supernatural you make yourself enemies devoted to the end of your existence.
>It also sometimes seems like every local government, police force, university, crime family, and corporation is somehow controlled or seriously influenced by vampires (Invictus and Carthian), mages (Silver Ladder and Seers), and other even less human and desirable supernatural groups.
I think that other poster was right, you have a shitty ST, as it's not how the books represent it.

>>43515807
>you just go and get a job there.
See, this is what I mean about "you can't just go pack up your shit and move to another country, you're stuck where you were born".
Sure, you can go get a job in some other country. But chances are that job isn't going to be a suitable lifestyle. Just because people are disillusioned with where they live doesn't mean that somewhere else--somewhere they have to teach English to people speaking a language they don't know, or worse be a slave to the Saudis--is a more viable prospect. Unless you've got skills for an ACTUAL job in a foreign country, in which case, sure, but not everyone has that.

I mean, I don't have skills or knowledges that would allow me to comfortably live in one of those sexy socialist Norwegian countries.

>>43515822
I posted a quote.
It's not a "meme" that English is a very syncretic language. It's a truism. English borrows from every other major language. And even a few that aren't major.

>>43515826
>It definitely sucks big to not possess some supernatural merit or patron in the WOD.
Not really. This isn't oWoD. Mortals aren't some inherent lesser thing that exists only to be preyed upon. Being a mortal in the WoD is not like being a mouse in a kitten farm.

>>43514917
>What horrible truths have been revealed to them?
The Acanthus has learned that he may be a major cause of the apocalypse. He's not taking it well, especially since he's a high wisdom mage who wants to protect everyone.

>>43515344
>Man, I hate white people.

I definitely noticed this when I moved to the US.
It sucks being a kid and learning that people hate you for who you are.

>>43515698

If people in the DC universe can't tell the difference between Clark Kent and Superman because of glasses, Batman's secret is no doubt safe from the imbeciles living in Gotham.

However, I don't believe everyone in the WOD is supposed to suffer from similarly severe cognitive, visual, and auditory impairments as insuperhero cinematic universes.

In fact, it's been mentioned in some WW supplements that people actually do know and recognize the very weird and bad stuff that constantly surrounds them, but tend to keep their mouths shut and heads down, lest these creatures specifically notice them.

>>43515875
>But chances are that job isn't going to be a suitable lifestyle.
Yes, most places you cannot transplant your current existing life without any change but the surroundings. But saying you're stuck is ignorant as fuck. It's why they keep increasing the numbers of green cards and visas available every year, because more and more people are coming. It's why illegal immigration is a problem.

There's even opportunities for basement dwellers who want to subsist on other peoples money, they just involve a lot of sexual services.

>>43515554

They didn't ruin anything I love

Are you referring to that trash series made by that hack jap?

>>43515900
>The Acanthus has learned that he may be a major cause of the apocalypse. He's not taking it well, especially since he's a high wisdom mage who wants to protect everyone.

Well, you've obviously played Splintered City: Seattle. How did your Demon / Mage crossover turn out?

>>43515956
Clearly. The only other media referenced in these threads is anime, japanese video games and dresden files.

>wodg has shit taste

>>43515975
This is 4chan bud, everyone has shit taste.
Anyone who thinks they don't is just in denial.

>>43515915
>If people in the DC universe can't tell the difference between Clark Kent and Superman because of glasses
But there are several SEVERAL reasons that they don't know Clark Kent is Superman. To most people they look only vaguely alike, and don't act the same.

>In fact, it's been mentioned in some WW supplements that people actually do know and recognize the very weird and bad stuff that constantly surrounds them, but tend to keep their mouths shut and heads down, lest these creatures specifically notice them.
That's the Kindred of the East bullshit. In nWoD, 2e explicitly, people just tend to forget that sort of thing. Unless it was something super huge and impossible to ignore, you tend to go "must have been a trick of the light" because you instinctively--not consciously--know that letting the monsters know you see them means they pay more attention to you.

>>43515956
>>43515975
>I don't like popular things, am I cool yet?

>>43516016
>>I don't like popular things, am I cool yet?
It's not about not liking popular things, it's about having an interest in things beyond popular things.

It's called depth.

>>43515975

It could be worse. One of my major WoD inspirations is listening to progressive rock. I'm pretty sure that kind of discussion would kill a man.

>>43515875
>I mean, I don't have skills or knowledges that would allow me to comfortably live in one of those sexy socialist Norwegian countries.

Neither do the millions of shitstink refugees that are destroying their countries. You're just lazy.

>>43515903
oh the irony

I'm going to be running a NWoD mixer game as a supernatural buddycop scenario, I know WoD tends itself towards being dark, so I'm quite worried about keeping a balance of humour and "Darkness".

Any tips? The players are already going to have to deal with death on the regular and I've set up some pretty fucked up scenarios but they're certainly marginilized compared to the buddycop scenarios.

>>43516131
The darkness refers to the unknown, not evil, so you have that helping you.

>>43516131

Don't be afraid to lean a little more funny than horrifying. The line between humor and horror is thinner than you think, and it's a great way to disarm your players before you let shit get real. I think Evil Dead 2 is a great example of how to balance comedy with horror.

>>43515959
Nope! Storyteller's custom setting. Got a Sin-eater and a werewolf. Hunting a very dangerous demon though.

>>43516016
>>In fact, it's been mentioned in some WW supplements that people actually do know and recognize the very weird and bad stuff that constantly surrounds them, but tend to keep their mouths shut and heads down, lest these creatures specifically notice them.
>That's the Kindred of the East bullshit. In nWoD, 2e explicitly, people just tend to forget that sort of thing. Unless it was something super huge and impossible to ignore, you tend to go "must have been a trick of the light" because you instinctively--not consciously--know that letting the monsters know you see them means they pay more attention to you.

My recollection certainly wasn't from KotE, or even cWOD, as they really haven't been on my radar in well over a decade or more. I believe it came from repeated comments by DaveB here and the OPP forums concerning the supernatural in the nWOD, and contrasted with the Quiescence effect of magic in Mage 2e, similar to what you describe.

Since you indicate that your view (i.e., people forget or rationalize the supernatural) has been explicitly adopted as the default in the nWOD, could you provides any page citations? I'm most curious, and it would help resolve a discussion I'm having with someone about the nWOD setting.

>>43516224

I think your ST definitely read Demon's Splintered City: Seattle. ;)

If you have not yet done so, give it a read. The splintered and sequestered apocalyptic timeline story hook, including an Acanthus mage, is quite good.

>>43516016
>That's the Kindred of the East bullshit. In nWoD, 2e explicitly, people just tend to forget that sort of thing. Unless it was something super huge and impossible to ignore, you tend to go "must have been a trick of the light" because you instinctively--not consciously--know that letting the monsters know you see them means they pay more attention to you.
Actually, that's always been the case in nWoD. Almost everyone has had an encounter with the supernatural, or knows someone who does, it's just not talked about, because nobody wants to admit it out loud. It's an unsaid truth.

>>43516281
>Almost everyone has had an encounter with the supernatural, or knows someone who does, it's just not talked about, because nobody wants to admit it out loud. It's an unsaid truth.
This isn't the case and nothing in the books says it is. Certainly people who have encounters or know people who have don't talk about it, but nothing says more than half of people, not even "almost everyone" has had those experiences.

>>43516016
>>43516234
>>43516281
>>43516320

We definitely need a DaveB setting clarification.

>>43516418
DaveB is where I got "Almost everyone has had an encounter with the supernatural, or knows someone who does" originally, I think.

>>43516433

I, too, believe Dave's the source of our information.

Nevertheless. the other poster seems certain of his position, and I, and apparently he, has no actual book page citations to support our respective positions.

>>43516074
hahahahahahahahahahahah

get a load of this kid

>>43516281
>>43516234
The section on Integrity. People don't notice or ignore things that they don't understand. It's not that everyone knows the supernatural exists and just doesn't acknowledge it. They just have a "Someone Else's Problem" filter.

>>43516537
>I, and apparently he, has no actual book page citations to support our respective positions.
She. And GMC Page 155 to 157 (Breaking Points)
>• What has the character forgotten? In the World of Darkness, it’s next to impossible to grow up without any exposure to the supernatural. Decide what your character saw and forgot. Did she see a vampire take the form of mist and vanish? A man turn into a wolf? Maybe she caught a glimpse of the God-Machine through a door that should never have been propped open? Describe this scene in as much detail as you can. This is a breaking point that already occurred, but it helps set a benchmark for what your character would have to see in order to experience one now.

>>43516624
>In the World of Darkness, it’s next to impossible to grow up without any exposure to the supernatural. Decide what your character saw and forgot.
This forgot sounds a lot more like "forgot"; i.e. in denial/"put it out of your mind". People suddenly developing spontaneous amnesia when they encounter the supernatural, while the literal interpretation, is also pretty nonsensical.

Unless you're playing Mage, at least.

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Skimming Dogs of War and I noticed Naglopers came up. Was this a mistake, or is there something in Requiem that reused the name?

>>43516635

The way I see it, the encounter with the Supernatural is something that your character would tell around the campfire, only to stop because it's getting too real.

>>43515485

A Nameless is a mage without an Order. An Apostate is technically a mage who *had* an Order and left it.

>>43516635

People in the nWoD tend toward "ignore it and it'll go away" for *most* supernatural events, and outright "lose their memory of it altogether" for Supernal manifestations.

It's not a mistake, it's that mage magic gives you amnesia *on top* of everyone's generally-conditioned tendency to be in denial.

A mage-centric reader might suppose that the latter is a weak form of Quiescence that covers everything supernatural but not Supernal. I prefer to think of it as human nature.

>>43515554
>"Oh no, I slept with a ~dude~" is your madness revelation?

No, its the part that his child is a deformed monster. Though sleeping with someone who changed their sex and manipulated you under false pretenses is rape. Its rape under the law and it would be horrifying in real life.

>Why is someone infertile if they can transform into a woman?

I found out later that the plot was taken from Night Horrors. The familiar did it. And the Paradox caused by the magics let a Gulmoth enter the baby's body.

>>43517004

So, to confirm, absent supernal magic or other very specific supernatural manifestation like Lunacy, the nWOD default setting position is that most people generally know "something" supernatural is out there and is bad, but they keep their mouths shut, heads down, and just hope they don't someday end up lunch for a creature of the night?

Do most mortals in the nWOD actually experience or have contact with some supernatural event or creature during their lives, or is the denial a result of a more generalized unsettling feeling or primal knowledge of the supernatural?

>>43517165

up to you

>>43517165
>the nWOD default setting position is that most people generally know "something" supernatural is out there and is bad, but they keep their mouths shut, heads down, and just hope they don't someday end up lunch for a creature of the night?

Yes

>Do most mortals in the nWOD actually experience or have contact with some supernatural event or creature during their lives

Also yes. The nWoD is a very, very weird place.

>>43515702

Yeah, he was pretty bad. It was like 5 years when we played that out and it was cool for us in highschool but he's not someone I would put in my own games today.

That reminds me, its been 5 years since I had a chance to play as a character and not be the Storyteller. It sucks. I have all these cool character ideas but I'm the only one who bothers owning and reading the books and can tell a decent story so I'm always forced into the ST role. I tried playing as a character and being ST at the same time and it just didn't work.

>>43517182
So it's an open secret, everyone knows about it just nobody mentions it.

>>43517182

Thank god it's getting cut.

>>43517182

That sounds dumb. Good thing Paradox is going to quietly sweep it under the rug.

>>43517235
>>43517242
>nWoD and Exalted getting dropped

I hate my life

>>43517182

Thanks you, Dave. Your clarity and participation here is most appreciated.

While you're online...

What Arcana are now required to create nutritious food from nothing. Is it just Matter, or does it require any additional Arcana like Life or Prime?

I don't know if you can answer this question, but has the Paradox acquisition by WW thus far affected the Mage 2e release schedule, such as putting Signs of Sorcery on hold or delaying the release of the new core?

After all the spoilers, I'm anxious to finally throw my money at whoever is necessary to acquire a shiny new copy of Mage 2e!

>>43517253

Exalted is getting dropped? Fucking why.

>>43517285
Not oWoD enough

>>43517285
>being excited for 3e

Its shit anyway.

>Requiem 2e
>very lewd
>good fappable art
>/ss/

>Mage 2e
>most likely no lewd
>written by a brit so prudish as fuck
>art is completely unfappable if 1e is anything to go by

why even bother getting hype

>>43517308
You disgust me.

>>43517308
>/ss/

Do you mean the incest story? Didn't read that as /ss/.

>written by a brit so prudish as fuck

French people shouldn't throw stones

>>43517182
>The nWoD is a very, very weird place.

It's more than weird, it's bed-wetting-level frightening for anyone without powerful supernatural abilities or a scary protector or patron.

In fact, a weak supernatural, such as a human psychic, probably suffers the worst predicament. They know far more about the awful truth of the world, and have just enough power to really be noticed or marginally "useful" to various predators, yet are unable to effectively defend themselves. They don't have the option to ignore things and hope for the best.

>>43517314
>Do you mean the incest story? Didn't read that as /ss/.
>spider-man wallet
>has algebra class
/ss/

>>43517332
Americans call college courses "class" right?

I'll re-read it.

>captcha is asking me to pick waffles
>pick 2 waffles, the only waffles on the grid
>not enough choices
>pick a pancake
>success

Captcha is a God-Machine ploy.

>>43517332
>>43517335
Actually I see where you're coming from.

Grim.

>>43517285

Nothing has been cancelled, and the only solid information we have is by Rich Thomas that all current and ongoing Kickstarters will definitely be honored.

While the nWOD, Exalted or anything else MIGHT ultimately be cancelled or significantly altered, there have been no official announcements from OPP or Paradox/WW, other than that no plans have been finalized and talks with licensees such as By Night Studios and OPP are ongoing.

The sky's hasn't fallen, at least for now.

>>43517335

It depends. Lectures, class, all the synonyms are used in America. I've had professors who called it class, professors who called it a lecture. I think it just depends on the prof.

Still, if the man has a spider-man wallet, I think you can safely deduce it isn't college, unless they're super into Spider-Man. So, I suppose it can be freely interpreted either as non/ss/ or /ss/

>>43517355
This is the world of darkness, optimism gets you killed here.

>>43517362
He could just be a beta loser who browses /co/ and can only get laid by letting his dead sister drink him.

>>43517308

I liked how 1e implied Mastigos rape people then never bring it up again. Moros are also implied to keep ghosts as rape slaves. Lots of rape going on in WoD, its just less pronounced in Mage.

>>43517352

The captcha is an oppressive tool of the Exarchs and serves the Lie.

I'm sick of choosing street signs, trucks, furniture and pizza. Waffles and pancakes sound much better.

>>43517355

Oh, good. I'll stay cautiously optimistic, then, and await further news. I mean, Paradox is usually pretty good, but..never hurts to be cautious. at least they aren't creative assembly..

>>43517402

There's no real doubt that Paradox is most interested in the classic WOD, as it is the most well-known and valuable for potential video games.

Whether that means pen and paper RPG's for the new WOD or Exalted will continue, with or without OPP, is still a great unknown.

However unless Paradox is very concerned about market confusion of the various properties, and cannot think of any means to remedy the problem, I personally doubt they'll cancel anything and forgo potential profits, no matter how small.

>>43517437

I'm not gonna lie, I hope they can translate some of it into rpgs, whether through contracting Obsidian or some other dev. Their traditional grand strategies wouldn't be bad, either. Would certainly be interesting to see, at any rate.

>>43517437

They won't cancel anything. They'll just phase it out. Don't expect any new nWoD books announced.

>>43517472

There are a lot of new (and classic) WOD books already announced, to say nothing of Exalted and classic Vampire 4th edition.

Fans aren't stupid, and Paradox doesn't appear foolish or condescending. If they do choose to end the lines, now or shortly, I believe they'll make a formal announcement within the next few months.

I also believe they continue with all the major lines for the foreseeable future. Why leave easy money on the table? However, the amount to be published, the continued involvement of OPP as licensee, and the level of creative involvement / interference by Paradox compared to CCP for the tabletop rpg's, are currently far greater mysteries.

>>43517308
Awakening 2e - assuming this gets past approvals - opens its introduction with a certain Alan Moore quote.

>>43517266
Matter 5 to make food from nothing (or anything material from nothing for that matter), but you can do it several ways - a Fraying of Death could remove rot from spoiled food, Life can make your body act as though you just had a three-course meal, enough water to drink and a good night's sleep, Matter can turn inedible objects into food.

Signs of Sorcery is not on hold. It's long since contracted, and first drafts are due in just over a week.

>>43517526
>Paradox doesn't appear foolish or condescending
>gives their fans 200 dollars of DLC
>expects them to eat that shit up
>they do

The only thing worse than Paradox are Paradox fans.

>>43517526

I post nWoD is cut in every thread and people keep falling for the bait. Probably because deep down inside you know its true.

>>43517472
You're retarded if you actually think Paradox gives a shit the tabletops. White Wolf was owned by a company that literally just sat on the IP for years, yet Onyx Path found a way to keep making books. Somehow I doubt Paradox is planning some sinister conspiracy to squeeze out a tiny profit out of neckbeards.

>>43517546

>SoS will follow hot on Mage 2e's heels

Can't wait to play Mage in 2017!

>>43517614

There really isn't anything to discuss until we get new HAPPENINGS on Monday. I'm cynical that everything will turn out all right but its all conjecture at this point. Just keep the nay saying for when confirmation that nWoD is cut comes. It won't take long ;)

>>43517647
>Currently we are in discussions with all our different licensees (like larp-wrights By Night Studios and Onyx Path). Before we have talked to them and formulated a plan for the future together, we will not comment on specific products or relationships. We do get a lot of questions about it and while we fully understand your curiosity it's simply too early to comment on any of it for now.

>However do rest assured as soon we have things in order we will communicate everything we can share about the future for World of Darkness and Exalted.

If it was good news, they'd just tell us.

>>43517546
>Signs of Sorcery is not on hold. It's long since contracted, and first drafts are due in just over a week.

Ah, some welcome good news.

I hope we see Mage 2e very soon, and that the Paradox purchase of WW doesn't ultimately doom Mage 2e or any other nWOD game line, literally or creatively.

>>43517664

"Good news" is a matter of perspective.

I'm not particularly concerned if Paradox continues the WW RPG license with OPP. We do not need OPP to produce any nWOD tabletop products, and I wouldn't at all be surprised if Paradox moved production in-house, particularly since they already named a "Lead Storyteller" / creative director, Rich Thomas' current function, and plan to hire more people.

I would be more than satisfied if most of the current developers and authors continued to produce nWOD books directly for Paradox or even another licensee with anything remotely consistent with the current vision (and with some books like Beast, a new vision might very well be desirable).

I also don't see any real advantage to cancelling any of the RPG lines, even if the profits are small. Conversely, any cancellations would needless anger many longtime fans well before the release of any video games or other cross-platform products, and demonstrate a lack of faith in much of WW"s IP to a wider audience, a poor introductory commercial strategy.

Nevertheless, gaming companies are notorious for foolish and self-defeating positions, so the future is anyone's guess.

>>43517546

In an earlier post, you mentioned that Conditional Duration was the Arcanum Attainment for Fate 2.

Has Target Exemption been eliminated or moved?

>>43517804
Like Hung Spell in Time, it's a function of a spell - there's a Fate 2 spell that lets you tag people so your own area of effect spells miss them.

Would it possible to make a familiar out of a vampire in M20?

>>43517926

So, in order to cast a something like a mind control spell or fireball that exempts certain targets such as friends and allies, a mage would need to first cast the target exemption spell on the friendly targets, maintain the spell as part of his spell limit, and then take at least another turn to cast the primary spell? If so, ouch. It might be useful before a planned or anticipated battle, but definitely not practical to protect innocent bystanders in sudden combat or ambush.

Does the mage still take a spellcasting penalty roll on the primary spell for each exempted target, similar to the 1e Target Exemption?

>>43518025
>but definitely not practical to protect innocent bystanders in sudden combat or ambush.

>not practical in sudden combat or ambush

Welcome to 2e's paradigm!

I love it.

>>43518064

The old -2 per target casting penalty in 1e would still be pretty harsh with 2e mechanics, and I personally believed something like Target Exemption seemed like a better Attainment than Conditional Duration for Fate 2.

Unlike Fate, Time 2 having Temporal Sympathy as an Attainment, and requiring a spell for Hung Spell, is the opposite, as hung spells by their very nature are used on a moments notice.

Well, I guess Mage 2e is now terrible and irreparable, Dave ruined my favorite RPG, and the sky is definitely falling...

/sarcasm :)

>>43518158
>:)

You say this now but this is just the beginning. One spell under one practice under one arcanum. The whole book is likely going to suck and there is no time for Dave to go back and fix things. What's done is done, MtAw is ruined.

Good thing it'll be irrelevant during the One World of Darkness and we can just go back to playing Ascension.

Man, all the despairing posts are giving me a massive boner.

>>43518362
Paradox pls

>>43518362

I hope you're notice the ample sarcasm in many of the posts.

>>43518396

You're so new its cute.

>>43518301

Hopefully it's not too late, and those LARP-loving, videogaming Swedes can rescue us from Dave's Mage abomination.

Maybe if they injected some consensual reality and racist and bigoted stereotypes from Ascension it would save Mage 2e and bring back some of that 1990's magic (and mechanics that still haven't been fixed in four editions and a period book).

/sarcasm

>>43518459

You don't need to /sarcasm your posts. This isn't RPGnet. All it does is makes you look like a giant faggot.
Unless this is intentional to trigger me, because consider me triggered.

>>43518477

Too many people are hyper-sensitive and looking for issues (although I admittedly may have been a little conditioned by the SJW's on rpg.net). I figure better safe than sorry, as I don't want the thread derailed with a flame war about how Dave ruined Mage or how dare anyone insult Dave.

>>43518509
"The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.
Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."

This should be everywhere, not just on /b/.

>>43518543
>This should be everywhere, not just on /b/.

It's also on /trash/ now

>>43517067
>Its rape under the law and it would be horrifying in real life.
No it's not. Trans panic keeps getting turned down in cases. In fact I don't think even Israel allows the whole "you didn't tell me you were [ethnicity]" defense.

>Paradox
>Doing anything in 1e
Mage 1e had such a huge gameplay and story segregation.

>>43517203
>its been 5 years since I had a chance to play as a character and not be the Storyteller
Same boat. My main problem is everyone else doesn't want to run. Or read the rules.

>>43517253
>>43517242
>>43517235
Is this the new meme?

>>43519516
>No it's not. Trans panic keeps getting turned down in cases. In fact I don't think even Israel allows the whole "you didn't tell me you were [ethnicity]" defense.

So at what point is "informed consent" informed enough?

>>43519586
Transgender people are their new gender under the law, they don't have to tell you squat. You going to the police is harrassment of a protected group.

>>43517308
Tell me more about this /ss/?

>>43517182
This kind of thing always feels like it strains credulity. Like, I can deal with "oh, I believe in ghosts or god", but "every single person knows that there are real supernatural creatures that might eat them" is way way way too tough on my suspension of disbelief. That's a situation where you only need one person to say "the Emperor has no clothes!" and suddenly everyone starts going "yeah, I can't see them either".

You also get situations where someone opens up to someone else with a secret and the other person--who statistically has experienced something similar--tells them things like that can't happen. Again, people don't *act* like that. People rarely worry about *real* threats that are certain because they can't see or talk about them. The notion that everyone doesn't talk about them and on top of that denies anything is just so incredulous.

I mean, shit, you get into a situation where you have people actively telling others that things they know are real aren't real, all because of this mistaken belief that people will think they're crazy. It shits the bed all over every "we can't let the muggles know or they'll kill us all" reason for keeping the Masquerade, and that's already a flimsy excuse.

>>43519607
>Tell me more about this /ss/?

p.57 - Who Am I To you?

>>43519607
>and that's already a flimsy excuse

If people knew for a fact that vampires were real, do you think there'd be any left in a year's time? Take out greed and survival is number 1 on humanity's things to do list.

>>43519605
I actually meant that in a more general sense. Not just for trans people.

If I slept with someone who has AIDS, but they did not tell me, is that my fault or theirs? If I slept with someone who is in a relationship, but they did not tell me and I did not want to be an accessory to infidelity, would it be my fault or theirs?

>>43519649
HIV status is confidential, it's nobody's fault because they don't have to tell you or anyone else.

Relationship is their fault, but their partner will blame you regardless so it's irrelevant.

"I used to have a penis" is no different to "I used to be fat"; it's a purely physical factor that no longer applies. You calling it rape is absurd.

>>43519669
It's not. People have been charged and convicted with not disclosing their STDs to a sexual partner.

>>43517595
It's not "taking the bait", it's that people will honestly believe you. People constantly pop into the /wodg/ and believe lies they've been told. There are people who believed White Wolf was taken over by CCP (it wasn't, it was *merged*, consensually, though this was a dumb idea) and who believed WoD was canceled when the MMO was canceled. There are people who still think that the GMC is the new metaplot. People are fucking idiots and yes, we correct you and "take the bait". Because some fucking dumbass is going to believe you.

>>43517664
Not how it works. They'll tell us when it's all worked out, not before.

>>43518477
>You don't need to /sarcasm your posts.
While it's annoying, see above, re: people are idiots and will believe you.
I mean, you're on the site that had people microwaving their phones.

>>43519669
What if I was convinced of the sex on the promise of child-making happening?

>>43519691
Then he/she argues he/she meant through adoption

>>43519711
Man, with all that stuff I find it hard to find arguments why children should not be allowed to consent to sex, given how little value the "informed" part is placed on.

>>43519586
You go to a Jewish bar (I assume those exist?) and you pick up a girl and have sex with her. Later you find out she's Protestant, she just has a big nose and finds Hebrew sexy! You may not like goyim girls, but that doesn't make it rape.

People don't discuss their life history when hooking up. Hell, they don't discuss it when dating a lot of the time, but just because you find something out about a person that you don't approve of after you've had sex with them doesn't make it rape. Going home with a girl and waking up with the beer goggles off to realize she's got Confederate Flags and Nazi memorabilia everywhere is *creepy*, but it's not rape.

>>43519649
>>43519669
HIV status is more tricky in that you are actually harming someone if you fail to disclose that you have a communicable disease (this is assuming you're communicable, I'm not sure how HIV works but I'm pretty sure if you take your medicine you don't give it to others). But "I used to be male" or "I used to be fat" or "I'm not Jewish" isn't going to cause you harm and potentially (if you're poor) kill you.

>>43519735
P is the next letter to be added to LGBTQIABBQWTFROFL

All the child love campaign needs is a marketable, articulate, well-adjusted kid or two to make the argument that sex is their right. All they have no is fat rapists and obviously brainwashed cult-kiddies.

>>43519745
>Going home with a girl and waking up with the beer goggles off to realize she's got Confederate Flags and Nazi memorabilia everywhere is *creepy*, but it's not rape.

That's a horrific double standard when the opposite is true for women

>>43519685
do you not understand the difference between gender and an STD

if that drag queen you fucked didn't tell you he was in fact a man, you are not suffering from a disease as a consequence

>>43519769
that's only in your strawman fantasyland dude

unless the neo-nazi actually did rape them

in which case, they were raped, you moron

>>43519745
>But "I used to be male" or "I used to be fat" or "I'm not Jewish" isn't going to cause you harm and potentially (if you're poor) kill you.

Depends on how you define "harm". People get psychologically iffy about a lot of strange things. For some it might shatter their view of themselves and cause mental problems.

Also, it could be argued that "fake vagina" is not the same as "real vagina", so you would have consented to a kind of sex you did not know beforehand you consented to. Compare to agreeing to be the penetrator but ending up penetrated.

>>43519691
Then you're a weirdo who tries to knock up one night stands. That said, I'm pretty sure there are hundreds of thousands of people who have entered into long term relationships with talk of children with one member fully aware they're infertile.
But none of them have been convicted of rape.

>>43519735
While "you can't have sex until midnight the day you turn [arbitrary number]" is dumb, especially when people are more than capable of sexual interaction before that arbitrary numb, consenting between adults shouldn't be compared to coerced consent minorities.
Also, "informed consent" is for medicine. It means "here's a list of potential side effects and what might happen if this surgery goes wrong, and here are your chances of success".
The only information needed for consenting to sex is "I want to rub your genitals on my genitals, would you like me to rub my genitals on your genitals as well?"

>>43519769
I'm using male examples because presumably the poster is male. If a woman goes home with a man and in the light of day she sees a shrine to Hitler, that's still not rape, just creepy.

Just an FYI for all you ladies and gents:

Discussing law on 4chan is always tricky because this is an international side. Two anons can disagree on an interpretation and both be right... because they live in different jurisdictions.

>>43519607
>>43519639

A feeling or nebulous understanding that the supernatural is real is still a very vague, personalized, and comparatively differentiated experience. "Supernatural" could constitute anything from minor spirits and ghosts to a werewolf attack to meeting a cryptid at a verge. Sharing such an experience would not remotely constitute a similar experience as someone else, except possibly a notion that the world is dangerous and its best not to talk too much or look too hard below the surface. There are strange and dangerous things out there does not necessarily imply, "OMG, my boss is a vampire, call the National Guard," no less that anyone would believe you or willing to risk their life based upon your complaint.

Moreover, rumors and misinformation are probably still the norm, and many supernaturals are more than capable of destroying physical evidence or pesky witnesses when necessary, including specific powers to do so by all major splats including vampire dominate, the werewolf Veil rite, and virtually all mage Arcana (plus the Quiescence). I imagine the missing persons rate in the WOD is also quite a bit higher than our own.

Lastly, some normal humans do believe, share this information, and take action. In fact, there a whole nWOD game about such people, it's called Hunter. Sadly, most Hunters lead short, dangerous and painful lives.

>>43519824
Fun fact - In the UK rape requires a penis (either natural or as formed durint F-to-M transition). Women are literallyincapable of rape and therefore are charged with sexual assault.

>>43519808
"Fake" vagina is more than convincing enough. There's already quite a bit of variation amongst real vaginas, and people rarely pick their sexual partners for the appearance of their genitals.

California has actually banned the trans/gay panic defense. I'm pretty sure other states have as well. "I killed him because he wasn't actually a woman and that made me uncomfortable" isn't a valid defense, no more so than "I accidentally slept with a neo-Nazi" is considered harming you.

>>43519774
>you are not suffering from a disease as a consequence
But he is. Everyone knows transwomen are how queers spread The Gay. They turn themselves into women so that straight guys will have sex with women (who used to be men) because that will obviously make them attracted to men (who look nothing like women).

>>43519824
>Implying places other than America matter
>>43519853
Wow, America is actually more progressive than the Yourohs for once?
I mean, here there still needs to be SOME kind of penetration, but that's at least a little better.

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>>43519819
>Then you're a weirdo who tries to knock up one night stands.

Man, don't judge me. I just got to spread my seed, okay? Are you trying to cramp my self-understanding here? Are you trying to repress me?

>>43519874
>I mean, here there still needs to be SOME kind of penetration, but that's at least a little better.

Women can penetrate you (male or female you) with whatever they want, it's still not rape here.

What in the name of fuck is going on in these threads

>>43519918
Hey, welcome to a Beast thread. Pick a flavor of sexual crime and join in.

>>43519918
A masterful derail, that's what. The Abyss beckons.

>>43519876
>That video
There's actually a story behind it. They tend to show the girls afterward with babies or whatever, but they forgot to film the Afterward scene for her. So they were like "fuck it, say she died".

As for the rest of the post
>Werewolves

>>43519918
Consent is very important to Mage. You wouldn't want to rape reality, would you?

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>>43519955
>Consent is very important to Mage. You wouldn't want to rape reality, would you?

Weeeeeeeeeell....

... just look at this thread to see how fucked reality already is. I think I cannot really make it any worse by a little magical penetration here and there. In fact, I will try to make it better for you folk. For all of us.

>>43519874
>>43519808
>>43519745

>California has actually banned the trans/gay panic defense. I'm pretty sure other states have as well. "I killed him because he wasn't actually a woman and that made me uncomfortable" isn't a valid defense, no more so than "I accidentally slept with a neo-Nazi" is considered harming you.

While the defense may be technically banned in California, the circumstances would still necessarily presented to a jury. Good luck procuring the required unanimity needed for a conviction. For good or ill, most of the public would not respond well to such lies, and in an actual murder or assault trial, I would expect, at best, a conviction on a much lesser charge or, more likely, a hung jury or acquittal.

People feel and react far differently to certain types of lies and misrepresentations, and "I used to be man" is generally considered by most to be far worse than "I'm not Jewish," "I used to be fat,""I'm infertile." and even "that Hitler guy was swell."

As to lying about having a potentially terminal disease such as HIV, it does indeed present a far different scenario, at least in the USA.. Knowingly risking infecting someone with a virulent disease without their knowing consent easily constitutes assault or worse in many jurisdictions. Again, no actual jury would look kindly on such actions.

>>43519620
>i take off my college letterman jacket
/ss/ doesn't involve college kids

>>43519918
>What in the name of fuck is going on in these threads

It got derailed concerning a controversial sexual topic. This only happens on days that end with letter "y."

>>43519929
>Hey, welcome to a Beast thread. Pick a flavor of sexual crime and join in.

Rape themes pervade both the classic and new WOD, particularly Vampire and early Werewolf. It's really surprising considering the leftward political slant of most of the authors. Nevertheless, Matt did indeed really take it to the next level with Beast.

>>43519955
>Consent is very important to Mage. You wouldn't want to rape reality, would you?

Don't rape reality. Think of the children...

>>43520104
>Rape themes pervade both the classic and new WOD, particularly Vampire and early Werewolf. It's really surprising considering the leftward political slant of most of the authors. Nevertheless, Matt did indeed really take it to the next level with Beast.

I think that originally was meant to be progressive and edgy (in the classic sense). It was a topic that people preferred to keep silent about. WW was progressive in the sense of tackling it (or trying to be). This was before "rape culture" really became a major buzzword topic.

>>43520104
>Think of the children...
I did, twas rather silly.

>>43520021
>most of the public would not respond well to such lies
It's not a lie. Again, you don't have to discuss your life history. And, yes, it turns out that more and more juries are not willing to accept "my client beat and murdered her because he found out after having sex that she used to have a penis". Although I will say that people who commit those crimes still often get lesser sentences.

If you see someone who is physically attractive and you like their genitals, that is all you need to know about them. If you find out their genitals used to be different--or even that they have a disease--that isn't rape. Now, yes, there have been cases where people knowingly trying to spread STIs have been brought to court, but as far as I can tell from having watched a lot of Law & Order, that's still not rape.

>>43520146
Let's not kid ourselves. oWoD was not the avant garde auteur breaking taboos to get people talking. It was the shock jock attention seeker who sees getting people talking (about the subject) a nice bonus but mostly wants them talking about him.

>>43520181
> but as far as I can tell from having watched a lot of Law & Order, that's still not rape.

>Law & Order

Rusemaster Kek

>>43520065
People keep their jackets long after they leave college

>>43519993
I do wonder what a Scelestus-dominated city would be like. Or Tremere.

Probably like Flint, Michigan or Gary, Indiana.

>>43520181

>but as far as I can tell from having watched a lot of Law & Order

I'm an actual litigation attorney in NYC. I would strongly advise not basing any legal opinion upon what you've seen on L&O. At best, from a legal standpoint, it's only marginally better than LA Law or Ally McBeal (I guess I also just gave away my general age). On a more positive note, the L&O crew are very nice when they're filming downtown at the various courthouses, although Sam Waterson used to be a real pompous ass.

>If you see someone who is physically attractive and you like their genitals, that is all you need to know about them

You're presenting your opinion as fact, particularly as your comment well exceeds the legal issues under discussion. Moreover, your opinion is likely the minority view among most of the population at this time.

> If you find out their genitals used to be different--or even that they have a disease--that isn't rape

My prior comment did not concern the technicalities of the sexual assault statutes or related jurisprudence, only the more practical considerations of the likely responses to the discussed scenarios by juries.

If you do not believe "I used to have a penis" will be treated -FAR- differently that "I'm not Jewish" or similar misrepresentations by a jury, I would respectfully suggest you have scant experience with everyday citizens performing their civic duties in court.

>>43520493
>I'm an actual litigation attorney in NYC. I would strongly advise not basing any legal opinion upon what you've seen on L&O.
See? Apparently you do need to go /sarcasm

>If you do not believe "I used to have a penis" will be treated -FAR- differently that "I'm not Jewish" or similar misrepresentations by a jury, I would respectfully suggest you have scant experience with everyday citizens performing their civic duties in court.
Whether or not it's treated far differently has no bearing on whether or not it legally should be treated far differently.

The transgender rape discussion is interesting, but seems more a topic for tumblr or rpg.net (at least until everyone receives a time-out) than /wodg/.

How about we focus on less controversial matters like the effects of the Paradox purchase of White Wolf, complaining about Matt McF and Beast, or even better, fishing for more Mage 2e spoilers from DaveB?

>>43520575
>like the effects of the Paradox purchase of White Wolf

You mean like how they're going to rape all the games I like?

>>43520575
>complaining about Matt McF and Beast,
Honestly, I can't look at Beast.

Every time I do, I see Geist. I just want to help Beast pull up it's pants and get it's face out of the mud, but I know that without direction it won't matter and it will just trip over it's own feet again.

>>43520568
>See? Apparently you do need to go /sarcasm

Nope, believe it or not, I'm an actual commercial litigator in Manhattan. If you follow rpg.net or the OPP forums, you could probably even figure out who I am with little difficulty.

>Whether or not it's treated far differently has no bearing on whether or not it legally should be treated far differently.

Spoken like someone totally unfamiliar with the actual workings of the legal system. There is often a wide gulf between theory and practice. Juries often do as they want or even ignore instructions by the judge, and regardless of whether or not disclosing or misrepresenting a sexual reassignment would technically constitute rape or justify violence in response, which I actually agree it generally would not, I nevertheless believe in virtually all instances juries would react very poorly to such a scenario. Quoting statutes or legal textbooks, or complaining to the judge, would not be able reverse an acquittal or hung jury. I think you agree, but are suffering a little cognitive dissonance at the perceived injustice.

>>43520716
>Nope, believe it or not, I'm an actual commercial litigator in Manhattan.
I meant that you seemed to believe that I was going "I watched Law & Order so that means I know the law". Clearly I needed to use /sarcasm
>Juries often do as they want or even ignore instructions by the judge
And... whether that's true or not, that isn't *how it's meant to work*...
Like, I get what you're saying, and yeah, I completely agree with you. People are shitty and filled with biases. That's why it took until 2003 before America declared "Other people committing sodomy doesn't harm you, even if you find it icky".

>>43520682

Even with the notable improvements in the rewrites, Beast still seems like a directionless left-wing tween revenge power fantasy that totally went off the rails.

OPP wanted a clear crossover game and definitely experimented with Beast, particularly matters like the compulsory dislike of Heroes to the lack of splat social organizations. Sadly, the experiment spectacularly failed.

Assuming Paradox gives the green light to Deviant, I sincerely hope Dave does a far better job than Matt. At least we know Dave is far more willing to engage in open development and listen to feedback, and thus should avoid many of Matt's development deficiencies.

>>43515631
>I just don't want this new thread to be clogged up with shit from the last one.
I hesitate to ask, but what happened last thread?

>>43520861
There's a link in the OP.

Enjoy

>>43520482
Despite their association with Primordial Chaos, some old school Scelesti claim credit for building civilisation as we know it, with ancient Kish.

To give a better answer, though: It would likely highly depend on the nature of any associated Acamoth, Gulmoth or the exact ideology of leading Legacies.

Back to WoD, what could be changed about Beast to make it less playing assholes?

I feel like "you're totally teaching ~lessons~" doesn't cut it.

I feel like Beast could make for a fun Monster of the Week game, where the players are basically hunting down strange things just to chat with them, but... I could probably do that better without a lot of the baggage that Beast comes with.

Like, Satiety is a core mechanic and is meant to be one of the defining themes of Beast, but I feel like the game would be better without that whole obtrusive and time consuming minigame. It feels like something better relegated to a one shot Indie game.

>>43520860
Heroes being evil is less compulsory now. Although I got into an argument with people over whether "Good Heroes usually don't cross paths with Beasts because they don't try to kill them" is an improvement. I personally think it is, and Sleeping Beauty is treated better.

I feel that the "experiment" was half assed. I get that they're trying to do new things, but gutting the social organizations is detrimental to a White Wolf game.

>>43515757
Depends on the time of day.

>>43520964
And whether there is a hot topic (no pun intended).

>>43520803

In fairness, juries are normally very honest, diligent and scrupulously follow judge's instructions in a effort to achieve a just result.

It's the odd case that involves very unusual parties or controversial social issues where juries sometimes go rogue, often to the approval of the general public. This is a feature, not a bug, of the American legal system, and arguably the very reason why we require .lay juries in most criminal trials.

As you appear to acknowledge, the hypothetical transgender rape scenario would likely be exactly the type of case where the technicalities of the law would be ignored by a jury. I also believe we are culturally quite a long way from a point where the failure to disclose a sexual reassignment prior to intimacy would not matter in either a court of law or public opinion.

>>43520918
>Back to WoD, what could be changed about Beast to make it less playing assholes?

I, personally, would have kept the idea of upsetting old narratives, but really focused on it. Of course, in that regard it would harked even closer to Changeling, but where narrative logic in Changeling is all about using it to your advantage, Beast would be all about how to deal with it and possibly break the chain of narrative logic.

In a way, the theme would have been Fatalism and how to deal with it.

Yes, you are the monster and the Hero is going to kill you. Eventually. Maybe you kill this hero or escape that time, but a powerful enough Hero will catch up to you one day... wat do?

The Social Groups could have even been about different ways how to deal with that (although, again, could have easily ended up to close to Changeling's Courts).

This could have also included Beasts totally denying their beastly natures to try to not become "the villain of the story", with varying degrees of success.

>>43520482
>>43520909

If you've ever been to Newark, New Jersey, you will no doubt understand how it would clearly be an Abyss-tainted, anti-reality hellhole in the nWOD.

On the bright side, at least in the nWOD, there would be an understandable explanation for the crap that is Newark. In real life, it's just sad human neglect on mundane evil on display.

>>43521043
I don't think it's a feature that people are prejudiced. And I don't even think it's rare, either. I mean, otherwise you wouldn't have minorities who are more often convicted with poor evidence and sentenced harshly.

I also don't think we're that far away at all. We're already there in many places.

>>43521080
>I, personally, would have kept the idea of upsetting old narratives, but really focused on it. Of course, in that regard it would harked even closer to Changeling, but where narrative logic in Changeling is all about using it to your advantage, Beast would be all about how to deal with it and possibly break the chain of narrative logic.
"This sounds too much like Changeling without the Gentry" is the problem I keep coming to when I want to change something about Beast. Specifically "what if I expand their Feeding?"

>>43521043
Since you seem to be a professional, I would like to ask one more question (not the one you replied to, but I took part in this discussion).

Assuming for a moment the person explicitly asked "Are you transgender?" or something to that effect and was lied to, leading to intercourse, would the transgender person then have committed any offence that the deceived could get them for in a court? Not necessarily rape, but certainly a malicious untruthfulness was involved.

>>43521080

One of the inherent problems with Beast was that so much space was devoted to crossover that even with the extra word count added during the Kickstarter, it was impossible to fit entire social groups and related setting in the book, particularly during a time crunch and with the necessity of fixing issues that should have been resolved in both open development and playtesting..

>>43521132
That sounds more like the work of the Seers really.

>>43521147

I didn't mean to imply prejudice itself is beneficial, but rather the concept that we are judged by our layman peers. In such a system, the fact that juries are more likely to acquit or ignore a "bad" law is a usually a very good thing, and actually tends to protect the weaker and more liberal elements of our society. Nevertheless, no human-devised system will be perfect.

>>43521156

>Assuming for a moment the person explicitly asked "Are you transgender?" or something to that effect and was lied to, leading to intercourse, would the transgender person then have committed any offence that the deceived could get them for in a court? Not necessarily rape, but certainly a malicious untruthfulness was involved.

I personally doubt your scenario would rise to the level of an actual criminal offense, but as a practical matter, could possibly persuade a jury to acquit in the event of an immediate an violent reprisal by person who was lied to.

A civil tort action against the transgender individual -might- be possible in certain jurisdictions under a variety of theories ranging from fraud to intentional infliction of emotional distress, but the ultimate success would heavily depend on local jurisprudence and jury perception. Absent recognized and tangible damages that could be proven were proximately caused by the misrepresentatioms, any tort action would be very difficult, at best.

>>43521192

No self-respecting Seer would willingly debase themselves by stepping foot in Newark unless it was an explicit punishment for failure or disloyalty from a very angry Exarch.

>>43521345
Thank you.

>>43521411
But they certainly were very successful!

>>43521187
But all that wordcount was mostly wasted.

>>43521345
>the concept that we are judged by our layman peers.
The problem is that we rarely are. We're judged by "peers" in that we're judged by fellow US citizens but that's about it. I mean, people even try to get as many people as possible on the bench who will see things their way. A jury of white hetero cisgender frat guys insecure in their sexuality isn't the proper jury to decide whether or not it was justified to beat a black transwoman to death for being trans and making a white heterosexual frat boy feel icky.

>could possibly persuade a jury to acquit in the event of an immediate an violent reprisal by person who was lied to.
The fact that "I was lied to so it's okay to beat someone to death" is a thing that some people believe is a serious issue. Which is of course why some states don't allow things like Trans Panic defenses to even make it to court.

>>43521452

Keeping mankind from pursuing the unknown doesn't require making their lives into living hell. Just pile on an incessant amount of distractions and bullshit and false leads for them to follow away from the truth and they'll do alright.

>>43518064
Target Exemption is one of those things that you REALLY WANT to be able to use at a moment's notice, because whether you'll need it depends strongly on the situation. Conditional Duration, ironically enough, does not, and would mostly be used in less-urgent conditions, which makes it odd to make that one the Attainment.

>>43521524

Respectfully, your practical understanding of both jury selection and the criminal process is lacking, particularly the fact that in most state criminal trials, jury selection is a adversarial process, and in federal court, it's handled by an impartial judge with only limited involvement by counsel, and all under very strict and generally effective rules to prevent bias. Jury problems also present a wide range of issues for appeal when necessary.

>The fact that "I was lied to so it's okay to beat someone to death" is a thing that some people believe is a serious issue. Which is of course why some states don't allow things like Trans Panic defenses to even make it to court.

As I discussed in detail earlier, the fact that a trans panic or similar defense is technically prohibited is immaterial as a practical matter since the basic facts of the encounter would by necessity be presented to a jury. The jury could then rule as they please, and absent jury tampering or other very severe and highly unusual circumstances not present in our discussion, a court cannot overturn an acquittal or hung jury. As the other anon acknowledged, at least as of now, and for good or ill, any misrepresentation or failure to disclose a sexual reassignment would be a tremendous factor in the deliberations of most juries in our hypothetical situations.

>>43521833
Yes, and that's why you can't, not without casting it as a combined spell.

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Okay, this is just fucking ridiculous. This thread has been completely derailed. What the hell does all this trans panic talk have to do with ANYTHING? You're debating this shit when we could be getting spoilers from Dave! Take it to fucking /lgbt/ people.

>>43521926
But the reverse is the case for Time, wrt Sympathy vs Hung Spells.

Hanging a spell IS preparing it in advance, so it makes sense to have to cast a spell ahead of time to do it. Meanwhile you might need to use Temporal Sympathy on the spot.

>>43521970
Everyone already stopped talking about that. Except, in a twist of irony, you.

>>43521970
Hey now, Dave is actively responding to the one guy actually talking about Mage.

>>43521970
Daft and Punk as Extempores, purely because people know more about them, than the guys who are under the helmets.

>>43521998
"stopped talking about it" when? Five minutes ago? These posts have timestamps, you know.

>>43521998
There was one literally two posts above mine?

>>43521926
I dig it! Time and Fate had too many effective attainments already.

>>43521970
I actually think that you can so easily go off-topic in an image board as opposed to a more regulated forum is a strength.

The discussion has been pretty civil and people might have learned something. I see that as a net gain, even if it was not really WoD-related.

You got a point about dem dere delicious spoilers though.

>>43522082
Only issue is that it has taken up the majority of the thread. Where we could have been complaining about how badly we all want Mage 2e.

>>43522119
>Only issue is that it has taken up the majority of the thread

Fortunately we have an infinite number of threads to work with. And it's not like Dave is going anywhere, he has neither a social life nor any hobbies.

>>43522119
>Only issue is that it has taken up the majority of the thread.
Welcome to being in the same thread as Aspel.

>>43522226
Dave has his own sessions to run though.

>>43522285
And then to never write up.

>>43522285
>porn stars like having sex with their partners

If you've been writing WoD all day and daling with players on 4chan, the last thing you'll want to do in your free time is play tabletop RPGs

>>43521926

Dave, any chance you're in the mood to spoil more Arcana Attainments, possibly from Forces or Mind?

HOW MANY OF THE SUPERNATURAL SPLATS HAS YOU CHARACTER HAD SEX WITH

>>43522316

Hold on... are you suggesting that Dave has a life outside of writing and playing RPG's?

That's just crazy talk.

>>43522373
Hey. Komodo dragon fetish conventions don't attend themselves.

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>>43522390
Time for Komodoposting?

So Dave, as someone who themselves was nearly ForeverGM, I am curious about your PC ideas.

I think in an article you once said you would play a Thyrsus. Any other specific ideas?

>>43522429
Part of me wants to run a game for DaveB now just so he can play his Thyrsus.

Online games are a pale imitation of IRL games, though.

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>>43522390

I thought Dave just brought Komodo dragons to RPG conventions, or even dressed-up like one in some sort of sad or perverse cosplay.

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>>43521970
I've been trying to talk about Beast. Well, I was, before I went off to read Greywalker book 3.

>>43522006
Did someone say Nana Natsu?
I've wasted way too much time making pictures of Hatsune Miku look glitched.

>>43522316
But he does. Also, tons of porn stars fuck outside of work.

>>43522695
>Did someone say Nana Natsu?
Nope.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hg3G1E2tNCA

Also, I don't know why but when I read about the Pandoran of Unfleshed being Gremlins, I immediately thought of the Electric Gremlin from Gremlins 2. and the 10'000 Volt Ghost.

>>43516636
That's strange. I could have sworn there was a VtR version of Nagloper, but I can't find them in the canon index OR in the Night Horrors book.

>>43523121

For some reason, the world of wraith: the oblivion always brought that fucking theme song to my mind - it always seemed so odd to me that it was such a desperately lugubrious setting when the artwork said "rollicking yet horrifically depraved."

Hunter question. Is normal silver jewelry pure silver? Like the sort of stuff someone could buy from a shop. Also are there any laws against melting such jewelry down?

>>43523307
No, most silver jewelry is either plated (and therefore useless) or just super polished steel.

No law against melting silver jewelry, is law against making home made ammunition

>>43523337
Huh. So what sorts of hoops does one have to jump through in order to get raw silver?

>>43523351
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/silver-ore

Just set up a paypal account

>>43523351
Having money. If your character is (or has a buddy who is) a chemist, they could presumably obtain it by getting silver compounds and doing SCIENCE! to precipitate the actual silver out of them, but that would still take a lot of resources.

>>43523351

I don't believe there are many, if any, legal impediments to purchasing silver in the USA, other than cost and availability, and it can be done over the internet.

However, note that silver is a poor metal for weapons. For reference, I believe it's use was discussed in one of the nWOD Armory supplements.

Also, forging melee weapons or casting bullets or shot is an acquired skill, and probably requires a Crafts specialty (also discussed in one of the Armory supplements).

Assuming Paradox withdraws the license from Onyx Path, could they survive with its other systems?

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>>43523583
>could Onyx Path survive without World Of Darkness and Exalted

>>43517926
>it's a function of a spell - there's a Fate 2 spell that lets you tag people so your own area of effect spells miss them.
Do you have to "slot in" which spells ahead of time like with Hung spells? If so, it sounds like people who want to exempt their friends from possible future attack spells are going to be walking around with the magical equivalent of a loaded gun all the time.

And this is specifically the case for the people who do care about not hurting the wrong people.

>>43523850
Given that it doesn't require Time 2, I doubt you have to "slot in" anything, because that would require Hung spells. More likely you specify which people you don't want to hurt, and it works for [Potency] spells when you decide to use it.

>>43518064
>but definitely not practical to protect innocent bystanders in sudden combat or ambush.
>not practical in sudden combat or ambush
Well, considering it is itself a spell and not an attainment, and that all spells can be cast Instantly using a Reach, all this means is taking one turn to glance around and go "I want to make sure I don't hit my cabal, those kids over there, or the old lady in the back", and then letting loose with your AoE Celestial Fire or whatever NEXT turn. If spell control is a problem, Relinquish it for a point of Willpower (which, depending on your virtue or vice, specifically taking the time to protect innocents might refund you that willpower immediately), since it won't last long enough to go haywire anyway, so you don't need to worry about spending a dot instead.

>>43524040

You raise some good points, but in combat, every turn matters, and with many Yantras adding one or more additional turns to spellcasting, needing to cast a separate spell for target exemptions is harsh in anything but carefully planned scenarios, which usually doesn't mean combat.

>>43517739

>I would be more than satisfied if most of the current developers and authors continued to produce nWOD books directly for Paradox or even another licensee with anything remotely consistent with the current vision (and with some books like Beast, a new vision might very well be desirable

Why would this even happen if Paradox went in house? It's way easier and cheaper to hire locally. There's plenty of passionate people in Sweden and in Scandinavia about WoD, and you don't have to convert to American money. If it goes to another licensee on our shores, there's also no point in hiring the old Onyx Path crew when you're already paying your own stable.

This, to me, seems like wishful thinking. OPP's redundant if White Wolf wants to publish again, but that doesn't mean that the current Onyx Path team would naturally follow. Unless things continue like they are right now, a WoD reboot of some sort is inevitable.

>>43524130
>needing to cast a separate spell for target exemptions is harsh in anything but carefully planned scenarios
It's a hell of a lot harsh than it taking three hours. You have to survive for one turn versus it being completely useless in a scenario you didn't already know everything about.

>>43523197
There isn't. Someone made a fan bloodline called the Nagloper that had Vicissitude. It's actually pretty cool.

>>43523583

Talking about Trinity has brought the old fans out of the woodwork, and I think they'd be down for giving to a Kickstarter to revive the line. Scion's got the same low key fandom going on. Pugmire and Cavaliers of Mars touch on aspects of gaming that aren't super hot right now, so it could go either way.

They'd survive, but there's be a tight year or two.

>>43523607
>>43523583
They'd be smaller, but they'd survive. There are plenty of small indie companies.

>>43524170
It's basically the difference between spending one turn to check your surroundings in case a fight breaks out versus "I prepared for this very scenario yesterday", which is practically impossible for any non-Acanthus Fate Mage.

>>43524146

Paradox would keep many of the current developers and writers simply because you don't fix what isn't broken when the fans are basically happy. It's certainly not a dig against the abilities or interest of anyone in Sweden. The issue raised is that OPP as an administrative entity or middleman is now potentially redundant since WW/Paradox has its own creative director and leadership staff.

Unless Paradox has creative objections to the current work of the freelancers, it would be a significant risk to start with all new people. It also hardly presents a major logistical burden for RPG authors to work from home in this electronic age, just as many did without difficulty for the old WW, CCP and OPP.

>>43524362
White Wolf could just poach all of OPP's freelancers, yeah. OPP has all of what, three actual employees?

>>43524429
And then hire OPP as consultants.

>>43523197
They're in the mekhet clanbook.

>>43524362

>Paradox would keep many of the current developers and writers simply because you don't fix what isn't broken when the fans are basically happy.

But then the question rises: are they really happy because things are going fine and things aren't broken, or are they happy because they're getting WoD books? These are severely delayed books, mostly because of the freelancer model. If you cut that, give local authors a local salary, and establish hard deadlines, you'd have a tighter ship and a more consistent output. The brand name is more important than any individual name, even internet faves like DaveB. With a bunch of new people in-house, you'd also have a better chance of sticking to corporate creative vision.

There's no good reason to keep the current writers other than good PR, and there's way more people who salivate for a Bloodlines 2 than people who'd complain that Eddy Webb isn't heading VtM anymore.

So archmasters can fuck around with platonic forms or whatever and change the world right? Can the ascended ones still do that? Because mage seems to be the odd one out in keeping the whole 'the bad guys have already won theres nothing you can do' meta.